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The Spectacle Blog
Well, we’ve had our discussions about budgets as moral documents and now have reached a budget deal that went right up to the brink of a government shutdown.
To those friends of mine who are also Christians, but identify more with the left than the right, I have a question for you: Just exactly what hill was it the Democrats decided they wanted to die on in this battle? Where did they draw the line and say, “This far and no further!”
It turns out their one adamantine point of no compromise was . . . funding Planned Parenthood. Wow, that’s a real Mr. Smith Goes to Washington moment. Gets you right in the old ticker.
I suspect Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo are feeling a little uncomfortable as they review the bidding.
Not that this should come as a surprise. How many Democrat figures have been down this path and learned that they have to make a choice? Ted Kennedy was pro-life and was forced by his party’s realities to change. Jesse Jackson was pro-life. Same result. Ditto for one Albert Gore.
There is one orthodoxy in the party of the left that will not brook disagreement. Bob Casey the elder knew it. And Ramesh Ponnuru wrote a book about it.
View all comments (62) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Hunter Baker
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/04/09/a-special-note-to-the-jim-wall
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Hanover| 4.9.11 @ 3:25PM
The only god Wallis serves is Karl Marx.
God Is Truth| 4.9.11 @ 3:44PM
Modern liberalism is the antithesis of how God intends for us to live & adherents to it like Jim Wallis who believe they speak for God, while at the same time defend abortion on demand, redistribution of wealth, worship of the creation instead of The Creator God & other sinful behavior & stances the left uphold, while also. expecting all other American citizens to fund the left's sinful idiocies with their tax dollars are nothing but false teachers who do not know God The Father or Jesus Christ the Son. Pray for Jim Wallis because he is truly lost. When anyone's strict adherence to political ideology trumps God & the way He has told us we should live our life that person is lost & in need of God more than they know or will admit. As for America being exceptional, until the slaughter of millions of children in this country through abortion on demand in TAXPAYER FUNDED slaughterhouses like Planned Infanticide ceases America will never be exceptional in the true sense of the word. Only God is exceptional.
jharp| 4.9.11 @ 3:53PM
Hunter Baker,
"It turns out their one adamantine point of no compromise was . . . funding Planned Parenthood."
The funding of planned parenthood saves taxpayers money.
And the sooner you dumbasses admit it the better off we'll be.
You have no interest in the truth. And you call yourself a Christian?
You are a pox on Christianity.
Hanover| 4.9.11 @ 3:55PM
Yes, because we all know Jesus Christ believed in killing babies!
jharp| 4.9.11 @ 4:29PM
Killing babies? Really? Last I checked the Supreme law of the land is explicit that abortion is not killing babies.
But you have no interest in the truth. You'd rather lie in the name of Jesus.
Jesus also was a big believer in denying poor women health care. Right?
God you people are stupid.
C Bowen| 4.9.11 @ 4:31PM
George Bush, Jim DeMint, Paul Ryan, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich--voted for funding Planned Parenthood funding year after year--and some people called them conservatives I think because they thought Saddam was scary or Afghanistan didn't have good schools.
Why is anyone surprised they caved?
JP| 4.9.11 @ 4:41PM
"Killing babies? Really? Last I checked the Supreme law of the land is explicit that abortion is not killing babies."
And everyone knows toute le monde that the Supreme Court has the final word concerning theological matters. Using that logic, God ordained (through Chief Justice Taney) that African Americans were not fully human; ergo, President Lincoln was guilty of Heresey.
PattyMor| 4.9.11 @ 4:45PM
The well-funded Left has instituted cultural marxism in the U.S. Death by abortion for many babies, especially the minority ones, withhold medical care for the elderly when they have outlived their usefullness, and above all push God out of the schools and town squares. Then we are flooded with vile movies and music. All good work of the devil, and it seems to be very profitable.
We have slogans of "Just Do It" or "If It Feels Good, Do It. Then there is the theft of our wealth by government. Now we have a gov'ment that not only taxes heavily, but also borrows 40% of its outflow. A good and moral people would never do these things. I hope God has mercy on us and does not destroy our republic because we have sold our sole to the highest bidder.
Hanover| 4.9.11 @ 5:05PM
Liberals are racist-- that's why they fight for Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood, the evil spawn of the Liberal monster, Margaret Sanger, aborts many more Black and Hispanic babies by percentage than White babies.
Liberals lie. Liberalism kills.
Hanover| 4.9.11 @ 5:55PM
The Democrat party is the Party of Death and abortion is their most sacred sacrament.
They are ghouls.
Occam's Tool| 4.9.11 @ 7:10PM
JHarp---it is killing babies. And I'm not surprised that Jesse Jackson, who supports the beheaders of 3 month old Jewish babies, also supports the murders of black babies. Have you checked the eugenics views of Margaret Sanger? She supported selectively aborting black babies.
And you call yourself a supporter of racial equality. G-d you are a stupid fool, JHarp. Moron, scum, baby murderer.
Stefan Stackhouse| 4.9.11 @ 7:15PM
If you read your Bible carefully, you will see that Jesus wasn't against the government doing what had to be done to enforce basic justice and protect innocent people. That is what government is supposed to do. Nor was he against people paying legitimate taxes to support legitimate government.
When it came to helping the poor ("whom ye shall always have with you") and others in need, Jesus placed the obligation squarely on the shoulders of each and every individual who had the ability to help, however little.
Limited government, focused on doing those few things that are true priorities, like defense, policing, and criminal justice, run efficiently and thus needing to be supported by a reasonably low tax burden, with "compassion" being the responsibility of the voluntary sector. Let's see now, whose political platform does that come closest to matching?
Hanover| 4.9.11 @ 7:32PM
Exactly. Jesus Christ is/was an individualist; one man-one God. That's why Marxist Collectivists like Harp hate Christians so much. We are his mortal enemies.
And so we are and shall remain forever so.
jharp| 4.9.11 @ 8:05PM
Occam's Tool| 4.9.11 @ 7:10PM
"JHarp---it is killing babies."
No it is not you dumbass. Killing babies is prosecuted in every state.
Ending a pregnancy up until the end of the second trimester is legal in every state in the US.
And if you don't like it move to a country that bans it.
Otherwise, kindly STFU about it. And most importantly quit lying about it.
blackwatch| 4.9.11 @ 8:24PM
abortion is murder JHARP. A living person is killed during the violence. Just because a court of law has made a grievous error doesn't undo the fact.
Too bad your parents were not pro-abortion like you. They could have saved thousands of dollars on your education or did they partake of the "free" Government school?
Hanover| 4.9.11 @ 8:27PM
Shut up stupid racist ahole. You don't get to decide the personhood of a child in a woman's womb.
You support Planned Parenthood because they kill many more Black and Hispanic babies by percentage than White babies.
You are a racist Nazi who hates Brown people--just like that evil bitch, Margaret Sanger.
jharp| 4.9.11 @ 8:57PM
blackwatch| 4.9.11 @ 8:24PM
"abortion is murder JHARP. A living person is killed during the violence."
No it is not. Abortion is a 100% legal medical procedure.
See Roe v Wade.
God you people are stupid.
Hanover| 4.9.11 @ 9:12PM
Harp's a Nazi. See The Final Solution.
Jack| 4.9.11 @ 9:53PM
Hhhmmm, law makes morality! What a concept. It is not the legality but the use of public funds to do it. If you and your friends are such avid supporters of it then create a fund with your money and provide assistance for abortions. Just leave my money out of it.
jharp| 4.9.11 @ 10:08PM
Jack| 4.9.11 @ 9:53PM
"If you and your friends are such avid supporters of it(abortion) then create a fund with your money and provide assistance for abortions. Just leave my money out of it."
Do you mean exactly like we have done?
What part of no federal tax can be used to fund abortions do you not understand?
God you people are stupid.
Hanover| 4.10.11 @ 12:20AM
Harp's a Nazi.
Occam's Tool| 4.10.11 @ 12:31AM
JHarp--simply because something is legal does not make it moral, or correct. Make me shut up, moron. You are consistently rude, ignorant, and devoid of logic. You support a culture of death.
To be more precise, the babies you kill won't be around to pay for your Medicare when you are old and even more incontinent than you are now.
Hanover| 4.10.11 @ 12:34AM
LMAO! It's really not funny but I can't help it.
Occam's Tool| 4.10.11 @ 12:35AM
As Hanover pointed out, JHarp, Planned Parenthood kills many more minority fetuses than white ones, thus preventing the birth of minority children.
Your actions are viciously racist, JHarp. Of course, being the offspring of a cross between a neurosyphilitic camel and a leprous armadillo, you can't help it.
Hanover| 4.10.11 @ 12:39AM
Stop it! You're killin' me.
jharp| 4.10.11 @ 12:44AM
Occam's Tool| 4.10.11 @ 12:31AM
"JHarp--simply because something is legal does not make it moral, or correct."
No sh*t dumbass. Like using taxpayers money to build stadiums for billionaires profits.
"To be more precise, the babies you kill won't be around to pay for your Medicare when you are old and even more incontinent than you are now."
They are not babies you idiot. And quit relying on someone else to pay for your Medicare. Get off of your ass and quit wasting your time on the internet and pay for your own health insurance.
Our laws could not be any clearer.
Abortion is a 100% legal medical procedure.
And you are an idiot.
God you people are stupid.
Nick| 4.10.11 @ 12:52AM
Abortion is murder.
Anyone with the mental ability of a five-year-old can understand this. Sorry, that leaves you out, Jackass-harp.
li-u| 4.10.11 @ 1:30AM
No it is not jharp. Abortion is a 100% murderous immoral medical procedure. just because "everybody does it" doesnt make it "legal" and "moral". so abortion has always been "illegal" and will always remain "illegal". supreme court not withstanding. the supreme court is not God.
hell, even the woman who brought the case to the supreme court realized she was WRONG.
Gosh u are a stupid dumbass.
jharp| 4.10.11 @ 2:27AM
Nick| 4.10.11 @ 12:52AM
"Abortion is murder."
By any measure of the laws of the greatest country on the earth, terminating a pregnancy is a right guaranteed by the greatest document ever written, the Constitution of the United States of America.
And if you don't like it you have 2 choices. 1) Leave.
2) Amend the Constitution.
Please choose 1.
God you people are stupid.
And you religious kooks need to get over it.
Hanover| 4.10.11 @ 2:35AM
We don't need to amend the Constitution, we just need five decent Supreme Court Justices to come to their senses and stop the evil of abortion. "Penumbras" be damned, Hitler Harp.
We'll never get over it, scumbag.
Kingofthenet| 4.10.11 @ 5:30AM
OK here we go: Order of things, you have to be BORN to Die, and Planned Parenthood does mostly women's health and contraceptive services.
Conservatives HATE women and believe life STARTS at conception and ends at birth.
Ken (Old Texican)| 4.10.11 @ 8:53AM
O' Razor...folks...you are writing to the dead.
That is mostly without profit. They are dead and cannot hear you.
They are dead men walking because their souls have never been "awakened" by the Spirit of God, though He has tried to awaken them.
Sadly, they think they will "die" and become nothing more than senseless dog-food.
When they pass into the next existence...for eternity.....knowing how stupidly they lived on this planet, the tears of regret will never dry...ever.
We can only pity them and ask God to give them one last chance.
beebop| 4.10.11 @ 10:04AM
'terminating a pregnancy is a right guaranteed by the greatest document ever written, the Constitution of the United States of America.'
"Terminating a pregnancy." Such an objective, unemotional and cold term, don't you think? How simple is it to go to "terminating a ......" when the need arises? Just fill in the blank .... The lack of any sort of moral quality is what I find the most disgusting part of your threadbare statement. Do you not understand that people of concious disagree on a fundamentally different level than this? How many women do you know who have "terminated" a pregnancy? Do you think they were happy? Did it improve their lives? Did they go on to a higher level of achievement? Or are they one of the 47 per cent who "terminate" more than one pregnancy?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_.....e_abortion
Your arguments are feeble ... as though you were defending a practice like selecting what movie to see or book to take from the library lending service. There is no "there" there in any of your justification for a practice that indeed snuffs out the life of an unborn child. There. Spin that any way you want, blame it on the forefathers all you like. Wrap yourself up in your theoretical arguments of constitutionality and all, but you are bereft of any sort of soul. You are a lost individual and should seriously withdraw yourself from any conversation regarding where human issues are discussed. You don't really have the capacity to be human.
jharp| 4.10.11 @ 10:36AM
"Your arguments are feeble"
Feeble? Are you effing kidding me? The fact is that terminating a pregnancy is guaranteed by the United States Constitution. It's just that simple.
If you don't like it take your crackpot religious beliefs and move to a theocracy.
beebop| 4.10.11 @ 10:54AM
If you don't like it take your crackpot religious beliefs and move to a theocracy
I am not an observant member of an organized religion, so your feeble (albeit nasty and rude -- big surprise) comments don't strike any reflexive chord with me. I am sure that was your intent.
As an observer of human life and one who practices using her soul, I feel nothing but pity for you.
jharp| 4.10.11 @ 11:05AM
"I am not an observant member of an organized religion"
You do know that your very own team members in the GOP believe that you will burn in the fires of hell for an eternity.
Not to mention they want to shove their religion down your throat by having it taught in our public schools using your tax dollars.
Hmmm. Now what's an atheist like you think about that?
I feel sorry for you. It's going to very hot for you for a very long time.
Right?
beebop| 4.10.11 @ 11:22AM
Harp -- you poor sad soul. Only someone without one can interpret my statement that I don't worship weekly to mean that I worship weakly.
Your transparency is pathetic. Those who practice their faith regularly are anathema to you. You deride, swear and try to otherwise debase their beliefs as having no credibility because they do practice their faith and then when someone not associated with any particular set of practices nonetheless agrees with them, there is a different attack.
I have a thought. You think pretty quickly on your feet when it comes to attacking people. Why don't you turn a leaf over, espouse your particular beliefs in a positive manner and share your thoughts with people who agree with you? Wouldn't that be more satisfying? As it is, you can fume all you like. From this point forward I shall pass over any of the obscene comments that come from your pathetic "intellect." I think you are seriously ill.
L.E. Powers| 4.10.11 @ 11:33AM
JHarp, the issue of abortion is a political one, not constitutional. It is not "100% guaranteed." Rights like freedom of speech, assembly, redress, and religion are, as they are enumerated. Abortion relies on the legal construction of "privacy" that gets it's legs by pointing to the number of places the Bill of Rights says government cannot get involved in a person's life without at least a court order (or in some cases at all). This is tied in a bow, for proponents by the 14th Amendment's liberty clause, the official basis for adjudicating Roe v. Wade.
As was exemplified by the reversal of Dredd Scott, things decided by the Supreme Court not clearly enumerated in the Constitution, though precedent, can be overturned because they are bad law. To paraphrase Justice Scalia said in a recent interview, "if you want to change the Constitution, amend it, then it will reflect the will of the people."
Your argument is simplistic and as naive as a fundamentalist Christian who wants to point to a scripture text, sometimes taken out of context because it says to them "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" ignoring what 2000 years of Biblical scholarship have to say. Are there crackpots who have spent their whole life studying scripture in error, certainly. But Proverbs does say not to be hasty moving the boundary stones placed by your forefathers.
By the way, your rudeness is uncalled for; just as is the rudeness of those who have been rude back to you. I respect the passion of your views as much as I disagree with your view. But passion does not make your view correct. And your "freedom from religion" view, telling people that if their moral world view is informed by their religion that they should leave our great country is more narrow-minded and repugnant than anything else discussed in this thread. The First Amendment enumerates this right, and the right for them to express this opinion is protected as well - just as is your right to disagree.
Morality will always be a part of the political discourse. It informs our laws. That we can have this discussion is great. I wouldn't want to be in a theocracy or a totalitarian state where if you, Jharp, happened to disagree with the Government's position on something, even if you were otherwise orthodox, you were thrown into jail. Sooner or later, that Government would be coming after me.
jharp| 4.10.11 @ 11:50AM
beebop| 4.10.11 @ 11:22AM
"Only someone without one can interpret my statement" (I am not an observant member of an organized religion)" that I don't worship weekly to mean that I worship weakly."
So what does "not an observant member"supposed to mean? Maybe that you don't observe?
And for the record "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord "
It's one of the top ten. Dumbass. And you break it willingly and weekly.
God you people are stupid.
Hanover| 4.10.11 @ 12:35PM
The abortion rate among Black and Hispanic women far exceeds that for White women. Planned Parenthood purposely locates their abortuaries in the poorest of the poor inner cities in our country. 80% of PP abortion clinics are located in minority areas.
Black leaders have betrayed their own people by aiding and abetting the genocide perpetrated by Progressives/Democrats in our country.
Margaret Sanger advocated sterilization, birth control and abortion to weed out "the problem of the dependent, delinquent and defective elements in modern society." Adolf Hitler couldn't have said it better.
Hitler, the man Liberals pretend to hate the most, is one of them. How ironic, how hypocritical--how evil, Herr Harp.
jharp| 4.10.11 @ 12:51PM
Hanover| 4.10.11 @ 12:35PM
"The abortion rate among Black and Hispanic women far exceeds that for White women."
What exactly is your point dumbass?
So does the rate of poverty. Maybe they have something to do with each other?
Jackass.
Hanover| 4.10.11 @ 1:08PM
My point is you're a filthy racist, just like your mentors Sanger and Hitler, Herr Harp. You and black-hearted Democrats like you feed off the blood of innocent minority babies.
Your stupidity is only exceeded by the putefactive decay of your soul. Rotten bastard.
Tony in Central PA| 4.10.11 @ 10:09PM
It took a couple of hundred years for the Supreme Court to figure out abortion is legal under our Constitution and a couple thousand years for certain theologians to figure out abortion is part of orthodox Christianity.
Anything's possible.
Jo| 4.10.11 @ 10:31PM
Killing another human being is a crime against God and nowhere in the Constitution does it say abortion is legal.
Nick| 4.10.11 @ 11:32PM
Anyone who is deluded enough to think that U.S. Constitution gives rights, and that one of those so-called rights is to kill unborn babies, that person must also be a lover of Hitler and Pol-pot, and worship eugenics skank Margret Sanger and Bubba 'the pervert' Clinton.
This type of person is not to be taken seriously.
jharp| 4.11.11 @ 12:08AM
Jo| 4.10.11 @ 10:31PM
"Killing another human being is a crime against God and nowhere in the Constitution does it say abortion is legal."
Nick| 4.10.11 @ 11:32PM
"Anyone who is deluded enough to think that U.S. Constitution gives rights, and that one of those so-called rights is to kill unborn babies"
********************************************
Listen up here.
Abortion is a 100% legal medical procedure.
It is not murder. It is not killing a human being. That is the law.
And it is a right guaranteed by the Constitution.
And for you two losers to try to force your religious beliefs onto the rest of us is unAmerican.
Get over it. You're being played. The teabaggers and the GOP have no interest in banning abortions.
They want your money and your vote. And past that they do not give a f*ck about you dumbasses.
God you people are stupid.
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 12:37AM
How funny that the vicious racist Little Hitler Harp claims Conservatives don't care about others. How ironic, how evil, Herr Harp.
Please point out where the Constitution states abortion is legal, nitwit.
You money-grubbing bastards can't wait to get every tax dollar you can steal into your hot little hands so you can kill more brown babies.
Nick's right; worthless pieces of lying crap like you shouldn't be taken seriously.
Nick| 4.11.11 @ 1:08AM
The kind of person who would lie about a nonexistent deaf daughter is the same kind of person who would blatantly lie about abortion being guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution.
And calling it a medical procedure is just another of his many lies, as abortion is never medically necessary. It is always elective, either by extreme pressure (the majority of cases,) or, as retroactive birth control.
Maybe his imaginary deaf daughter killed her imaginary unborn baby, and this is why he must lie and deceive, in order to rationalize the murder of his dead grandchild, which he probably pushed her into committing, if she really existed?
This lying pervert would also be a lover and worshiper of the lying rapist Bubba 'the pervert' Clinton, and the just plain lying President Ditherer, i.e. O'Bama.
jharp| 4.11.11 @ 1:23AM
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 12:37AM
"Please point out where the Constitution states abortion is legal, nitwit."
Roe v Wade dumbass.
God you people are stupid.
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 1:29AM
Please point out where the Constitution states abortion is legal, nitwit. And I don't mean a stinking penumbra, loser.
You can't because it doesn't exist, racist Nazi.
jharp| 4.11.11 @ 1:30AM
Nick| 4.11.11 @ 1:08AM
"The kind of person who would lie about a nonexistent deaf daughter is the same kind of person who would blatantly lie about abortion being guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution."
Please Nick. Enlighten me.
I am 50 years old and am unaware of anywhere in the United States, (the greatest country on the earth), where a woman doesn't have the right to terminate a pregnancy.
Please enlighten me. Dumbass.
And right on you dumb bastard. My hobby is to post lies about my family on teabagger websites.
God you people are stupid.
jharp| 4.11.11 @ 1:34AM
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 1:29AM
"Please point out where the Constitution states abortion is legal, nitwit. And I don't mean a stinking penumbra, loser."
Give it up freak.
Abortion is legal in every state. Every single one.
Something about the SCOTUS. You know. A 1/3 co equal branch guaranteed by the greatest document in the history of the earth.
God you people are stupid.
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 1:36AM
Not the (imaginary) daughter, Nick--I'd bet dollars to donuts Harp aborted his/her own baby. Probably late-term.
That would explain the repeated frenzied attempts to rationalize and excuse something that can't be rationalized or excused.
Paralyzing guilt is payback and payback's a painful b!tch, huh Harp?
Occam's Tool| 4.11.11 @ 1:38AM
If you recall, JHarp, through the neurosyphilitic haze, I agreed with your position on taxpayer supports for stadiums---I'm against it. I also praised you for your views on that.
The pouint that we are trying to make is that abortion selectively discriminates against Black and Hispanic babies, just as Margaret Sanger, uber racist, desired. You agreed with us, and you seem to encourage that. That makes you, ipso facto, a racist. Any questions eugenic Nazi?
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 1:39AM
And NOWHERE in the greatest document in the history of the universe, the Constitution, does it state that abortion is legal, loser.
Occam's Tool| 4.11.11 @ 1:41AM
JHarp,
I pay for my own insurance. The odds are greatly in my favor that I make MUCH more than you. Sorry. I'm also cuter, and my kids are smarter, and my 7 year old could take you. My apologies for your existence.
Occam's Tool| 4.11.11 @ 1:42AM
So, JHarp, you also agree that Blacks are not recognizable human beings either? That was Scotus' Dred Scott, the second worst decision in Supreme Court history.
The SCOTUS is far from infallible, dumbass.
Occam's Tool| 4.11.11 @ 1:43AM
Dear Hanover,
welcome aboard!
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 1:46AM
Sanger was a racist eugenist; her "Eugenic Sterilization" was the inspiration for much of Nazi racial policy.
Herr Harp is in good company; Democrats are Nazis. Monster.
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 1:48AM
Thank you good Doctor!
jharp| 4.11.11 @ 10:49AM
"The pouint that we are trying to make is that abortion selectively discriminates against Black and Hispanic babies"
Abortion can't discriminate against anyone or anything you dumbass.
I suppose poverty also discriminates against poor people.
God you people are stupid.
Hanover| 4.11.11 @ 2:16PM
YOU discriminate, moron. Confession is good for the soul, Herr Hitler Harp--you should try it.