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The Spectacle Blog
There have now been two recent polls suggesting that more Americans still side with the public sector unions against Gov. Scott Walker in Wisconsin, despite anecdotal evidence that such unions are losing the public relations battle with governors like Chris Christie. The Pew Research Center found that 42 percent sided with the unions and 31 percent with Walker. (A full 18 percent were undecided and 9 percent said a pox on both their houses.)
A New York Times/CBS News poll was even more favorable to the unions. Sixty percent opposed taking away some collective bargaining rights from public employees compared to only 33 percent who were in favor; 56 percent were against cutting their pay or benefits. In both surveys, Democrats, young voters, the poor, and minorities side heavily with the unions while Republicans and affluent voters are either split or narrowly in favor of Walker. The Pew poll, for instance, had only 53 percent of Republicans backing Walker.
Some of this has to do with how the polls are worded. People are generally not going to tell pollsters they support taking away anyone’s “rights,” to collective bargaining or otherwise. But there does seem to be a lack of awareness about how dire the fiscal situation is, how high the pay and benefits are in some cases relative to the private sector, and how difficult it would be to deal with these unfunded liabilities solely by raising taxes. It might be surprising, but then there aren’t many Republicans as effective at communicating this as Christie and there are a lot of people telling the unions’ easy-to-grasp side of the story.
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More Blog Posts by W. James Antle, III
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/03/01/do-the-american-people-support
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David W| 3.1.11 @ 1:06PM
I read on another site that in one poll, a high percentage of the respondents had someone in the household who was in a union and/or worked for the government. This would suggest that the polls are skewed.
W. James Antle III | 3.1.11 @ 1:39PM
I don't know what the breakdown is in the Pew poll, but in NYT/CBS 79 percent of respondents didn't have a union member in their household while about 20 percent said they did. That seems a little high -- only about 12.4 percent of the workforce belongs to a union -- but not necessarily out of wack with what you could see in an actual election. In 2008, 21 percent of voters came from union households. (And "union households" obviously contain some non-union members.)
Eric Cartman| 3.1.11 @ 2:17PM
So let me get this straight, The people who won a huge election just a couple months ago are now losing according to the polls. Yeah, sure.
JimH| 3.1.11 @ 1:23PM
These days it is hard to find a family that doesn't have at least one member on the public teat.
NoLib| 3.1.11 @ 1:26PM
Oh, please; why would I believe anything from these Leftist polls? Were the respondents adults or registered voters? That makes a huge difference. I'll believe the results from a Rasmussen poll before I'll believe these two BS polls.
PattyMor| 3.1.11 @ 1:31PM
Well I am sick of supporting the losers. Just look at school performance since the schools teachers were unionized. Graduation rates have fallen and kids that graduate have to take remedial courses in college. You can't fire bad teachers or bad bureaucrats. They're like the Energizer Bunny, but they still keep collecting their checks and their pensions. We can't support people who retire at 50 and spend the bulk of their adult lives on pensions.
But the short answer is that they produce (in big and medium sized cities) an inferior product at a high cost.
Paul McGrath| 3.1.11 @ 1:58PM
The left has done a pretty good job of blurring the distinction between private unions and public employee unions, and I think most people base their opinion simply on the word "union" rather than the phrase "public employee union." The good news is that this issue wasn't even on the radar two weeks ago; now it is the number one news story. It isn't going to happen overnight, but people are finally going to get some understanding of what is involved here and once they do, it can't be good for the left.
The Wisconsin Democrat senators in a certain way are doing us a favor: the longer they stay out, the longer this remains a news story. A good thing.
Al Adab| 3.1.11 @ 2:32PM
Americans generally support Unions. That being said two caveats remain. First, in the case of public employee Unions, we need to remember that there is no right to strike against the public interest and that public interest and Union interest do not always coincide. Second, we must also remember that Unions at their most basic are simply a means to monopolize the labor force. As such they, like other monopolies, need to be circumscribed in certain methods. The question of why Unions feel threatened by open shop policies rather than closed shop (mandatory membership in order to work) policies is one we all need to answer. Could it be that the benefits of membership are not worth the dues charged? To what purposes are those dues put? These are some of the areas in which the monopoly power must be scrutinized.
Kenny| 3.1.11 @ 2:51PM
Those polls are hogwash -- propaganda, pure and simple.
Michael L. Hauschild| 3.1.11 @ 3:46PM
Due to a schedule conflict, I once had to take an undergraduate statistics class under the auspices of the psych department. Most statistics is nuts and bolts and if you are dealing with simple data the results can be relevant. The latter part of this class was “optional” (to non-psych majors) and dealt with the constructing of polling questions and response analysis. I sat in on some of it out of simple curiosity. It became obvious to me then, and is certainly reinforced now, that you can get a group of people to opine in the direction and with the results you seek. I simply do not believe a word of any “conclusive” results reported in the MSM, in a blog, or from sites claiming “objective” pundits.There is one poll that is valid, it occurs in the early part of Novemeber.
Oldefarte| 3.1.11 @ 3:54PM
Any MORON knows that numbers are easily manipulated. If a survey/poll' POPULATION SAMPLE is BIASED [ie most of the repsonders are union supporters, Democrats, etc], naturally the poll's conclusion will be favorable to the unions. Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
martin j smith| 3.1.11 @ 4:12PM
I do not read the NYT-but as soon as I heard about this story I knew it was BS and that is why I do not read the NYT. That story is an excellent example of why I use the NYT for cleaning fish and nothing more.
SpiralArchitect | 3.1.11 @ 4:16PM
The Problem is morons don't know & morons make up the majority ...
BD57| 3.1.11 @ 4:17PM
First, the issue isn't how easy it is to manipulate polls (phrasing the issue being polled as one of "rights" being one example) - we all know that.
Second, polls like this aren't something we should simply ignore - though not for the reasons you might think.
These polls reflect the success the dominant political/education/media culture has had selling the "Unions are an unalloyed good, standing up for the little guy" bilgewater. It's all part of the persuasive narrative: (1) tell one side of the story & denigrate anyone who disagrees; (2) poll for results which support their side of the story; (3) tout the polls as "news" which indicates the opponents are even more evil & heartless than "we" thought; (4) repeat until enough opponents are silenced & the opposition crumbles.
We don't defeat the narrative by simply waving off any information which supports it. "W" tried to do that with all the criticism he caught & see where it got him - eventually, since it was never opposed, it became "true."
We need to point out, chapter and verse, why the people who agree with the Democrat line are wrong - time after time after time, regardless of the opposition.
Many of Wisconsin's school districts were subjected to an illegal strike (in the form of a "sick out").
The unions message to Wisconsin taxpayers is "you're the people we need the union to protect us against." They cry poverty - but they have a better deal than the people paying the bills.
The unions message to Wisconsin's voters is "we don't care how you voted or who you elected - elections only matter if WE win. Now shut up and pay your taxes."
We have the spectacle of a special interest group vetoing the people of Wisconsin's right of self-government.
Well, here's a thought - people unwilling to accept the result of elections ought not be allowed to participate in them.
simon templar| 3.1.11 @ 4:28PM
Well..ain't that just convenient for the socialist state and the liberal media. Here are some polls reported on Newsmax:
There are growing indications in recent polls that Democrats may be losing the messaging war over GOP fiscal-austerity proposals on the state and federal levels. Among them:
A Public Opinion Research poll for The Hill.com shows that likely voters would blame Democrats rather than Republicans, by a 29 to 23 percent margin, if the government had to suspend some operations due to an impasse at the federal level.
Even more noteworthy, The Hill survey showed that, by a 34 to 19 percent margin, independents say they would blame Democrats over Republicans if Congress can’t agree on spending cuts and the government shuts down.
On the national level, by a 58 to 33 percent margin, voters tell Rasmussen they prefer a partial shutdown of the federal government, if that’s what it takes to get achieve reductions in spending.
A recent Rasmussen Reports poll showed that likely 2012 voters favor Walker’s stance over the unions’, 48 to 38 percent.
A Rasmussen survey shows that 67 percent of voters believe Wisconsin Democrats were wrong to jam up Wisconsin’s legislative system by fleeing the state rather than taking a vote on Walker’s budget proposals.
Read more on Newsmax.com: Wisconsin's Final Throes Begin ─ Polls Blame Democrats
simon templar| 3.1.11 @ 4:35PM
This crap was also printed by Yahoo:
Amid the firestorm Walker touched off in going after the state's public-sector unions, voters indicated to Public Policy Polling (PDF) that Walker would lose a rematch with his Democratic opponent, Milwaukee mayor Tom Barrett, if the election were held today. Fifty-two percent of respondents said that today they would vote for Barrett and 45 percent said they would vote for Walker. Walker's job approval/disapproval was also 46 to 52 percent in the poll. PPP is considered to be a Democratic-allied firm.
Did you catch that last sentence? Well, I am sure most people did not read beyond the headline and are now full brainwashed and have received their daily programming for today.
solidground| 3.1.11 @ 5:59PM
Correct.
solidground| 3.1.11 @ 5:58PM
Rasmussen's poll tells a different story. Given his proven degree of accuracy as reflected in election outcomes, I'd tend to believe his numbers before any other, particularly anything trumped up by the NYT and CBS.
Larry| 3.1.11 @ 10:54PM
Ah, my darlings, I agree with Michael L. Hauschild: there is only ONE poll that counts, and that is the one that was last held in November 2010, in Wisconsin and around the nation. The Republicans won that election, and liberals should let them govern. Just like Obama said in February 2009 that he won the election - "that's what elections are for."
martin j smith| 3.2.11 @ 8:02AM
Rule #2--any MSM poll will be a phoney one especially when it comes to politically related issues.
Rule #1 is assume Obama is a liar.
Look if you are in the private secorter in or out of a Union and you hear about what these Fleebaggers get in their benefit packages and look at the behavior on display --you would be saying #%**&@! You to them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And it could go double if you are unemployed.
martin j smith| 3.2.11 @ 8:04AM
Hey Larry--you must be kidding: The Democrat Socialist Party let anyone else govern--even if Repubs won ? You must be joking.
This Socialist democrat crowd are the mob--the Brown Shirts, the Nazis, the Stalinist goons. Better be very clear in your mind who you are dealing with. They are the worst.