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The Spectacle Blog
What can I make of John Guardiano’s latest salvo? Allow me to illustrate:
So it is simply inaccurate to try and indict Muslims and Islam for the attack on, and abuse of, Logan. Indeed, if Logan’s assailants were “Muslims,” then the Nazis were “Christians.”
Nonetheless, Goldstein is determined, it seems, to find fault with the Egyptian people and with Islam. Thus he complains that I offer “no evidence” to show that the (sic) Egypt’s pro-democracy protesters were, in fact, peaceful.
First, the idea that I am trying and indicting Muslims and Islam for the attack on Lara Logan is just daft. The religious background of Logan’s assailants wasn’t an issue until Guardiano made it one. My only response to his assertion was if Logan’s assailants weren’t Muslim one could also argue the people responsible for the September 11th attacks weren’t Muslim either and indeed some people have.
Second, Guardiano asserts that I complain that he offered “no evidence to show that Egypt’s pro-democracy protesters were, in fact, peaceful.” I made no such argument. What I objected to was Guardiano not offering evidence to support his assertion that pro-Mubarak forces supplied anti-Semitic signs and were responsible for the attack on Logan. Guardiano can hide behind The New York Times to his heart’s content. But neither Nick Kristoff nor Tom Friedman has claimed the anti-Semitic signs were produced and disseminated by pro-Mubarak forces as Guardiano has suggested. And at this point there’s simply no evidence to support Guardiano’s claim pro-Mubarak forces attacked Logan. I just wish Guardiano would refrain from making outrageous claims he either cannot or will not back up.
Third, at the risk of stating the obvious, Guardiano and I simply view the events in Egypt differently. Indeed, Guardiano has also taken Jim Antle, Jed Babbin and Ben Stein to task for their views on Egypt as well. Guardiano clearly views the events in Egypt as a watershed moment in Middle East history and no doubt they are. After all, if anyone had said on January 1, 2011 that Hosni Mubarak would be out of office in six weeks we would have looked at that person with a rather quizzical look. The difference is that Guardiano sees Egypt turning over a new leaf while I and others look at things more skeptically:
In short, liberal democracy gives people the opportunity to expose and discredit anti-Semitism and other bigotry. So although Egypt and the Middle East may be regressive in key respects now, they need not remain regressive forever and ever. Social progress, in fact, is a hallmark of liberal democracy.
Yet what does a secular liberal like Ayman Nour chose to talk about following his announcement that he will run for the Egyptian presidency? That the Camp David Accords with Israel are dead. If anti-Semitism isn’t a strong force in Egyptian society then why would Nour bother raising Camp David in the first place? Because it will get him votes and in the grand scheme of things getting votes is more important to Nour than utilizing democracy to expose and discredit anti-Semitism and other bigotry. But if a secular liberal like Nour won’t avail himself of the opportunity democracy gives to expose and discredit anti-Semitism and other bigotry then who will? Surely not the Muslim Brotherhood.
But let me put the possibility of Egypt rescinding the peace treaty with Israel and going to war with the Jewish State to the side for now. A few years ago, I criticized Dinesh D’Souza for calling Hamas and Hezbollah “champions of democracy.” Well, it’s easy to be in favor of democracy when you win an election or otherwise gain power. But it’s not so easy to be in favor of democracy when you lose an election or otherwise lose power. One of the hallmarks of democracy is the peaceful transition of power from one party to another. Can anyone see the Muslim Brotherhood willingly relinquish power especially to a Coptic, secular or female head of state?
Clearly, Hosni Mubarak wore out his welcome with the Egyptian people. His time has come and gone. But it is far from a foregone conclusion things will get better for the Egyptian people. It would also be foolish for me and others to ignore the broader implications a post-Mubarak Egypt could have for the Middle East region and, of course, the national security of the United States. It will likely be years before we have a clear picture of life under a post-Mubarak Egypt. While future events in Egypt could persuade me to view things in a different light at the moment I am simply not encouraged by what has thus far transpired.
View all comments (37) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Aaron Goldstein
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/02/17/egypt-islam-barbarism-democrac
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Ken (Old Texican)| 2.17.11 @ 7:10PM
Aaron,
You are a nice man.
You have kept your punches all above the belt...except..."Presbyterians?" Heh Heh heh!
That was priceless and Guardiano needed his speciousness kicked.
As I write my novel, my protagonist finally has to settle on "encysting the cancer" of muslimism.
Dixie Pixie| 2.17.11 @ 7:43PM
Ken....There used to be a cult of Kali called Thuggee that was extinguished by the British Empire in India.
They were successively suppressed by the use of intelligence and police power.
The same tactics can be used on the Muslims if we have the political will to do it.
Bob K.| 2.17.11 @ 9:26PM
Alas Dixie,
There weren't 2 billion thuggees. We need more than political will I think.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.11 @ 10:59PM
Ken,
check out the Middle Eastern positions of the Presbyterian Church USA. Obviously if you are a member of the church, this is not meant as personal, and I am aware that there are two branches. I'm talking about the one in KY.
Claypoole| 2.18.11 @ 9:10AM
The headquarters of the Presbyterian Church USA in Louisville, KY is far more leftist than the majority of people in the pews. That is the reason my church declared itself a Confessing church (a scriptural- and Christ-centered church that is conservative in social and international issues) just after the PCUSA General Assembly in 2001. One of the 2001 Assembly's actions: with a theme that year of "Celebrate the Children," a majority of commissioners voted to include abortion coverage in the health care insurance of pastors and their families.
As to the PCUSA's positions on the Middle East: only a few years ago, the Assembly's condemnation of Israel brought so much outrage that Louisville had to, finally, revoke it.
Floyd Looney | 2.17.11 @ 7:44PM
I totally agree. By the way if the people who rape and pillage and make war aren't Muslims... what the heck was Muhammad??
Cato| 2.17.11 @ 7:45PM
Ken and others,
Muslims are not anti-semitic per se; they (many of them) adopted antisemitism of this genocidal kind from the Nazis. Al Banna was an Antisemite, Mufti Al Huseini was antisemite. He spent the wartime years in Germany with his good friend Heinrich Himmler. Cairo had a very large Jewish population back in the mid 20th century. After the Kristal Nacht there were anti-Nazi riots in Cairo organized by the Arabs. The real "cancer" is not Islam but the European totalitarianism and antisemitism imported from Nazi Germany and Soviet Union. Read eg German historian Mathis Kuntzel and his book "Nazi propaganda for the Arab world" to see how antisemitism was exported during the 1930s and 1940s from Germany into the Middle East.
Antisemitism was much weaker in the traditional Muslim societies than in the Christendom. This jihadi hatred was a historical novelty in the arab world adopted from Germany and reinforced by the communist antisemitism (anti-Zionism). When you listen antisemitic propaganda in the Arab world today, those are exactly the same paranoid fantasies about the Jewish conspiracy to rule the world and destroy societies, the Jewish control over America and the like. All that is very modern and does not have any basis whatsoever in the traditional Islamic teachings.
Dixie Pixie| 2.17.11 @ 8:08PM
The blood feud between the Jews and the Muslim date back to Mohammad.
The Jews refused to believe Mohammad was a Prophet of God and so undermined his authority.
For that the Jews must die for Mohammad was insulted.
So for 14 century’s this blood feud has waxed and waned.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.11 @ 8:48PM
That doesn't explain the massacre of the Jews of Mecca, although I agree the Nazis made it worse.
Of course, I can think of only two regular bloggers on this site who truly support the principles of Mein Kampf. One is the obnoxious rascal "John" the Translated, and the other is.....obvious.
Dixie Pixie| 2.17.11 @ 9:10PM
Greetings Occam's Tool
Time traveling Nazis backing Mohammad’s assumption of control of Mecca.
Complete with a battle scene and massacre of the Jews of Mecca.
Now that is a pulp fiction novel I would like to see.
Will you be bringing it out in paper back or E-Book.
Jehu| 2.17.11 @ 9:16PM
This comment is just totally wrong. Many Muslims were sympathetic to Germany in WWII because of British & French colonialism and the interrelated issue of Zionism. Sure, the Nazis emphasized areas of agreement, but the sentiments were already there. It's lunacy to suggest that antisemitism was somehow a foreign notion introduced via Nazi propaganda.
And even aside from that geographical nonsense, antisemitism was hardly invented in the 1930s. It has been a common phenomenon for many centuries. That's such an obvious historical fact I can't believe anyone would say otherwise.
Grzmlyk| 2.17.11 @ 10:29PM
Right on the money, Jehu.
I find myself at a loss to comprehend why so many people operate under the misapprehenstion that ignoring the reality of Islam somehow makes them intellectually pure (although I could say the same about liberals' defense of welfare or Obamacare or any other issue for which they shill).
If the fundamentalists win the day against "reform" Muslims - and what we are seeing is exactly that - we're all infidels to be subjugated, converted or killed. It's just that simple. And the Jews are first in line.
But I suppose the pseudo intellectuals who get off on fetishizing the putative innocence of Islam will continue to spout apologias - right up until the scimitar blade finally shuts them up.
So there is an upside after all.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.11 @ 10:57PM
Ummm, check out the Rambam's comments on the matter. I respectfully disagree with you and agree with Maimonides.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.11 @ 10:58PM
crap: the above comment was to Cato, who truly sounds like a lovely person. My disagreement was done with all due respect.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.11 @ 8:49PM
Dear Aaron:
I expect terrible things to come out of Egypt. Terrible things.
Dixie Pixie| 2.17.11 @ 9:00PM
Gentleman
Without the Logan attackers being identified, this controversy is as ridiculous as Mayor Bloomberg's guess that the Times Square Bomber was a TEA Party member.
But the probability of the attackers being Muslims are highly favorable.
The speculation that the attackers were Mubarak supporters is stretching probability too far.
Personally I am in favor of blaming the Logan Assault on fictional Space Aliens as that would be funnier than having one's carefully built-up speculation blow up when the true villain is revealed.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.11 @ 10:55PM
Dixie:
if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, floats, and has duck crap coming from its ass, then it's probably a duck (note the expert use of the two types of "its" there). The assumption of Muslim men rapists is a safe one, therefore.
Patty| 2.17.11 @ 9:26PM
I thank God every day that I was born in a Christian nation. At least I am treated like a human being, unlike many/most women living in Muslim countries.
Occam's Tool| 2.17.11 @ 10:52PM
Dear Dixie:
I no write fiction. My dialogue choppy, my descriptions worse.
But you should read Tom Kratman. You would LOVE his stuff.
Dixie Pixie| 2.17.11 @ 11:05PM
Touche Occam Touche
An eloquent retort.
I am a Weber and Drake fan myself.
But I will look up Tom Kratmen at the earliest opportunity.
Nite| 2.17.11 @ 11:00PM
The fact is that Lara Logan was attacked by a crowd of 200 Muslim men. They treat their women by rape, beatings etc., and they saw a western woman they called a "Jew" and proceeded to beat and sexually assault her. Frankly, I am disgusted by the cruelty and their sense of arrogance towards women. They come to this country and want us to bend to their religion and sharia law and show little respect for our laws. They attack a US media reporter who is showing their uprising to the world. Frankly, I have no sympathy towards any of these Muslim men, but I sure feel sorry for their women.
Am Freemen| 2.17.11 @ 11:38PM
----The obviously Globalist-timed and staged
'unrest' in the Middle East? --what can we say?
Certainly neat in that it comes just on the eve of
Globalist-destruction of the dollar, final collapse
of the American economy and borders ---and pensions.
THINK 'continuity of agenda' --think standardization,
collectivization, cultural leveling ----making way
for dissolution of soveriegnties everywhere
making way for 'management', 'governance'
(i.e. scientific dicatorship) ---and MASSIVE,
inescapable, incremental, covert EUGENICS.
HUAC meets NUREMBERG ----here and
likewise (HUBC) in London!
HURL the Global CON-job!
Patty| 2.18.11 @ 1:25AM
There is a great deal of truth in your post. Unfortunately.
Radical Islam and Marxism are both examples of collectivism; I fear both share the goal of the destruction of our Republic.
Bill Ayers told undercover FBI agent, Larry Grathwohl, that 25 million or 10% of the American population would be killed if they remained "die-hard capitalists", so we know that mass murder is part of their game plan.
Commies used mass starvation to liquidate their opposition in the 20th century--it's nothing new.
Ken (Old Texican)| 2.18.11 @ 10:52AM
Folks, I can't help remarking.
Freemen above needs some meds. Lithium might be therapuetic.
Patriot| 2.18.11 @ 4:00PM
Freemen might be a little crazy but it doesn't mean he's wrong.
tatosian| 2.18.11 @ 2:13AM
We should know where the Egyptian government is headed as soon as the commission deals with Article 2 of the Egyptian constitution. That article essentially declares that all legislation and laws must be in compliance with sharia law.
A dailynewsegypt report titled 'Rewrite Egypt constitution from scratch, say critics' states "Secularists – and some Coptic Christians, who make up a tenth of the population – are calling for the scrapping of Article 2, which says Islam is the religion of the state and Islamic jurisprudence the main source of legislation...Not the Copts alone, but a category of the Muslims, ultimately look for the omission of Article 2," said Youssef Sidhom, editor in chief of Orthodox Coptic newspaper Al-Watani."
Ahmed El-Tayeb, grand imam of Al Azhar, The world's oldest university and Sunni Islam's foremost seat of learning begs to differ.
Ahramonline-'Sheikh El-Tayeb: Article 2 of the constitution should not be changed' and bikyamasronline- 'Azhar Grand Sheikh: Islam, Sharia must stay in Constitution.'
We'll see.
http://www.thedailynewsegypt.c.....s-dp2.html
http://english.ahram.org.eg/~/.....hould.aspx
tatosian| 2.18.11 @ 2:14AM
http://bikyamasr.com/wordpress/?p=27527
Dale Cord| 2.18.11 @ 9:54AM
N.B. We encourage readers to share and discuss their thoughtful and relevant comments about this Spectator article. Comments are routinely monitored and will be deleted if profane, bigoted, or grossly impolite to our Muslim brotherhood. Please be respectful. (And don't feed the American people with any truth) Thank you.
Cato| 2.18.11 @ 10:45AM
"And even aside from that geographical nonsense, antisemitism was hardly invented in the 1930s. It has been a common phenomenon for many centuries."
The modern antisemitism was invented in the West. It did not exist in the Arab world. Period. The level of persecution of the Jews was an order of magnitude less in the Islamic than in the Cristian civilization. When the Christians in 15 century re-conquered Spain, burning mosques, libraries, public bathrooms and all other jihadist institutions to the ground, and expelling all Jews from Spain, the Ottoman empire accepted them. How come? How did the Jews so nicely prosper in Cordoba and Toledo under the Muslims, but could not under the Christians? Come on, explain that. How come that Bagdad and Cairo had so large Jewish merchant class, all the way to mid 20th century? Islam became 'inherently' anti-Semitic in the 1935 or 1940? C'mmon.
There were couple of verses from Koran portraying Jews as traitors who were punished by the Prophet. No conspiracy theories or paranoid fantasies about their world domination. No narrative of the people who killed our God. No ghettos. As Mathias Kuntzel writes the Jews were treated by the Arabs as a weak minority with the "combination of contempt and condescending tolerance". They treated the Jews same as Russains treat Czhechens. All of these crazy fantasies about the Jewish world domination, about them controlling American foreign policy, spreading diseases and all the rest rubbish emanating from the "Prorocols" and the Nazi and Bolshevik propaganda would seem ludicrous to the Muslims 100 or 150 years ago. The Jews ruling the world, hahaha, a good joke. This ceased to be a joke only when they educated themselves on Western sources, the Protocols, Mein Kampf (translated by Muslim Brotherhood as My Jihad), Soviet anti-Zionism etc.
Islamic fundamentalism and Muslim Brotherhood ideology are not less evil because they have the Western, rather than the traditional Islamic origin.
Cato| 2.18.11 @ 10:52AM
P.S. Hassan al'Banna, the founder of Muslim Brotherhood, who was a 'progressive' secular teacher with zero religious training warned his followers to expect the fiercest resistance to their ideas from Ullama, the traditionalist Islamic religious establishment. Interesting, isn't it?
Ken (Old Texican)| 2.18.11 @ 10:54AM
Cato,
You are simply wrong...
Sorry,
We just don't have the tools to fix stupid here.
Too Many Tims| 2.18.11 @ 11:35AM
It wasn't Hitler or even Muhammad. The Jews were the first people who accepted God's Covenant and for that the devil has never given them a moment's peace.
Dale Cord| 2.19.11 @ 3:07PM
This is Satan's world and because the Jews reject Jesus Christ as being the Son of God and Savior of all the human race by His sacrifice. Satan has given the Jews the wealth of the world. Jesus rejected any bribe or power from Satan,for He knew that this once perfect angel had now become an insane rebel and enmity to God his creator. The Jews have suffered the annihilation of multiple Millions if not Billions and have been given over to a "REPROBATE MIND",because of their refusal to worship their Creator and soon returning King of kings and Lord of lords, "JESUS CHRIST"
Jamie| 2.19.11 @ 11:49PM
Jesus was a Jew, moron; they are the Chosen People. You sound crazy, please go away.
Dale Cord| 2.20.11 @ 12:13PM
The truth always sounds crazy to those who refuse to accept it. Your name calling and hostility speaks volumes about your character!