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The Spectacle Blog
Of all the arguments liberals have been making during the health care debate, among the most tenuous is the idea that Republican members of Congress who accept government sponsored health insurance are being hypocrites for favoring repeal of government-sponsored health insurance for other Americans. Today, bloggers over at Think Progress post what they evidently think is a clever video of them challenging Republican members to explain why they accept government health care benefits.
The explanation for this is quite simple. Most Americans receive their health insurance through their employers, and members of Congress are employees of the government. Hence, the government helps pay for their coverage.
To extend the logic being used by liberals would mean that if Democrats were to propose a law in which the federal government sends $100,000 checks to every lower-income American, any Republican members who still collected their salaries would be hypocrites for opposing it.
View all comments (49) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Philip Klein
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Al Adab| 1.19.11 @ 11:54AM
A wise man once said, "If hypocricy were oil, this town (DC) would be Saudi Arabia. It takes one to know one as they say.
Still, the entire "health care" debate seems ill taken. If "Health care" is a right, then the government should run all the hospitals and doctors should be government employees. If not then "Health care" is another commodity which people may purchase for themselves however they choose, ie through insurance, savings or even just pay. What is the premise we are debating?
Charles Martel| 1.19.11 @ 2:23PM
Depends: are we communists or fascists? If communists, the doctors are government employees, and they'll do what they're told. If fascists, the doctors will just plain do what they're told because they were told to.
But if we are neither, then all parties to the transaction are free citizens and can do whatever they agree to do through negotiation. I know: anathema to the Left.
+++
Clint| 1.19.11 @ 12:32PM
Members of Congress are The Hired Help.
They are payed by American Taxpayers.
Let all of them buy their own insurance
dude | 1.19.11 @ 12:33PM
This is silly, there are GOPers that have rejected the healthcare, those that are receiving it are being hypocrites. If the mantra is about less government, they can go and get their own insurance plan from private businesses.
tonypal| 1.19.11 @ 12:54PM
I suppose your post represents the latest in deep thinking from liberals. But it demonstrates the warped image you've created in your mind of conservatives. I'm going to attempt to explain this to you and I hope you can understand it so you won't have to embarrass yourself anymore.
Conservatives are not opposed to anyone having healthcare. We would like every single citizen of this country to have access to affordable healthcare. We simply reject the notion that government can or should be the provider of healthcare insurance. Based on all available evidence, the introduction of government run healthcare will lead to substandard care, higher costs and rationing. Additionally, when government starts telling doctors what they can charge, really smart people will stop going to medical school because it's not worth the effort. My younger brother is a kidney specialist and would not have gone into medicine if he knew he was going to be at the mercy of government bureaucrats.
Again, the reason you don't understand this is because your mind has been filled with nonsense about conservatives. Ask yourself these questions: How many conservatives do you know in your life and how many of them, in your opinion, would prefer to see people suffer and die just so politicians in DC can give tax breaks to wealthy people and corporations. Does that sound like the people in your life that are politically conservative? I doubt it. Yet that's the narrative put forth by liberal politicians and the mainstream media. Think for yourself, talk to conservatives in your life and find out what we really believe, as opposed to the bilge you've been hearing. You might be surprised and you might even learn something.
Clint| 1.19.11 @ 1:37PM
"Two newly-elected Republican congressmen, Illinois’ Bobby Schilling and Pennsylvania’s Mike Kelly, are trying to mitigate this hypocrisy by refusing their congressional health insurance:
“I’ve done a contract with my district,” Schilling said. “I have term-limited myself. I am not taking the pension. I am not taking pay raises, and my family and I are bringing our own health care to Washington, D.C. And my dad taught me as a kid to lead by example — Congress should not have anything better than the American people.”
KELLY: There is no reason for anybody to get anything different than anybody else. I personally have always paid for my own health care… why should my pension as a public official be any different from anyone else’s pension? Why should my health care, as a public official, be any different than anybody else’s? No, level across the board."
The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.
Rise Up In Rebellion.
Carpe Diem.
Tlaloc| 1.19.11 @ 1:59PM
"Conservatives are not opposed to anyone having healthcare."
Maybe not but they have loudly protested the idea of government providing for health care, and have also loudly protested that spending must be reduced. Oh and for an added bonus they have claimed the private market provides admirably for insurance options (despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary).
Well, here's a trifecta, they can prove that they really believe all three things they think- they can prove they think the government should not be int he business of providing insurance, they can cut spending that little bit, and they can reaffirm their faith in free markets.
They could. But they *won't*. Which tells you everything you need to know about all three conservative talking points.
Clint| 1.19.11 @ 2:12PM
Aaaaand even more about Big Government Socialist Liberals.
Tlaloc| 1.19.11 @ 2:20PM
Indeed. Specifically it tells us they were right all along. But then any perusal of the facts of healthcare statistics from around the world showed that conclusively already.
Warrior | 1.19.11 @ 2:39PM
You and Michael Moore should move to Cuba, enjoy your statitical differences and the "factual" benefits of socialized medicine.
Renee| 1.19.11 @ 3:57PM
Fat boy Moore would never get stuck with Cuba's crappy health care because he's rich. Typical Marxist.
Michael Moore could live off his lard for a year.
Clint| 1.19.11 @ 4:25PM
THE FACTS
* Workers and Families Face Increased Costs: Businesses will suffer under Obamacare by facing higher costs. They are struggling to meet disruptive employer mandates; accommodate new taxes on insurance, drugs, medical devices and investment; and comply with piles of Federal agency regulations and IRS paperwork. These costs will be either passed on to customers or to employees who will face lower wages or lost jobs.
* Senior Americans Lose Access: Many seniors will find that access to health care will become more difficult because of massive reductions in Medicare payments. Deep cuts to private Medicare Advantage options alone will cause 7.4 million seniors to lose current coverage.
* Physicians Lose Too: Obamacare did not fix the Medicare physician payment formula, so doctors face a 23 percent payment cut in December 2010. The increase in the number of Americans enrolled in Medicaid, combined with the fact that Medicaid pays doctors an average of 56 percent of what they would get in private practice with paying customers, will test the willingness of many doctors, and especially specialists, to continue to serve the Medicaid population. Further, under Obamacare doctors face more Federal Government regulations and reporting requirements, driving up the cost and hassle of practicing medicine.
* States Already Objecting: States understand the Obamacare disaster and have sued the Federal Government. Their goal is to try to strike down as unconstitutional Obamacare’s commands to States to expand their Medicaid programs and set up federally designed health insurance exchanges and to individuals to buy insurance or suffer penalties.
* Federal Taxpayers Hit The Hardest: Obamacare will add a trillion dollars in new Federal spending and create spending "time bombs" set to go off in 2014. These come in the form of prohibitively expensive new entitlements for long-term care and for insurance subsidies (which discourage work and penalize marriage). Obamacare will also impose about a half-trillion dollars in new taxes over the next decade, which fall heavily on the middle-class.
dude | 1.19.11 @ 3:48PM
Hey pal, I didn't say anything about healthcare coverage being bad, I just said it's cheaper for the government to not cover the Congressmen than it does for them to cover Congressmen. A lot of businesses provide coverage as an incentive, but Congressmen are supposed to serve the people, and on their lush salary, it's not like they can't afford to get their own plan.
Renee| 1.19.11 @ 4:00PM
There are a lot of big fat Congressional Democrat hogs at the trough--why don't you lecture them? Hypocrite.
Warrior | 1.19.11 @ 1:29PM
You really are challenged aren't you? Most lawmakers use a PPO plan provided by Blue Cross/Blue Shield, a private company. They can also choose to utilize certain military facilities. Retired military use a plan through Humana. You truly need to get a grasp on reality before you post such blather. As tonypal pointed out, conservatives are not the potential terrorists our progressive/liberal officials want to paint us out to be.
Dennis D| 1.19.11 @ 2:19PM
GOP rejects the notion that healthcare is a right to be provided by the government to all citizens,. It does believe in employer provided health insurance including those who work for Uncle Sam.
Christopher Landrum | 1.19.11 @ 12:45PM
There is nothing uncoservative with letting our leaders laugh their way out of power as they leap into the grave--observe the clean escapes of Ken Lay and Richard Nixon.
Renee| 1.19.11 @ 4:01PM
..And Teddy Kennedy.
Dennis D| 1.19.11 @ 2:17PM
I have never seen any conservative opposed to employer provided health insurance EVEN when the employer is the government. These are benefits of employment not socialism. The left doesn't quite get it.
CalMark| 1.19.11 @ 2:35PM
If the Left didn't control the MSM--if there was even a modicum of balance--these smears would never even get off the ground.
Christopher Landrum| 1.19.11 @ 2:52PM
We need more conservatives arguing to provide handouts and entitlements to that gerrymandered council of American Lords a.k.a. the US Congress. Our politicians are all good people, full of kind hearts and geriatric wisdom. They've never let us down before. That's why '94 was such a success--the benefits of that conservative takeover doth never end.
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 4:16PM
You're a fool and a liar. Boehner flies commercial when he visits his district unlike Queen Nancy who never met a private jet (at OUR expense) she didn't like.
Christopher Landrum| 1.19.11 @ 4:27PM
A fool, yes, I confess I am. Liar? about what? Are gerrymandered districts a Disney fantasy? Are politicians "not" good people? They "don't" have kind hearts, then? They possess "no" geriatric wisdom? I guess '94 was "not" a success--and such a Republican revolution wasn't very revolutionary. What part am I lying about? At least YOU'RE not a liar--you're a patriot!--I'm just a dern fool.
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 4:48PM
You conveniently didn't address the point I made about John Boehner flying commercial which puts the lie to your nearly incoherent posts.
Christopher Landrum| 1.19.11 @ 5:17PM
I didn't address I point I didn't make--so that makes me a liar. Sorry Mr-I'm-the-Patriot-who-Points-out-Liars: I was talking about healthcare benefits for Congress (WHICH IS THE TOPIC OF THE ENTIRE POST), you're talking about airplanes and saying I lied about airplanes. Brilliant! Thank Lucifer's goodness you're the smarty, and "I'm" the incoherent one.
Christopher Landrum| 1.19.11 @ 5:21PM
While you're busy throwing around insults, you come right out and call me a coward, because only cowards post comments using their real names. Only the brave post anonymously.
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 5:23PM
Your name should be Christopher Conundrum.
Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between trolls and not so trolls.
Christopher Landrum| 1.19.11 @ 5:37PM
"Fool", "Liar", "conundrum-of-a-troll": I feel like I'm back at the first-grade schoolyard. A bully patriot uses "The American Spectator" for his bully pulpit. But all I wanted to talk about were congressional healthcare entitlements: representative deserve as much healthcare as they can milk their constituents for, just like any hardworking private employee should milk his employer. It's called survival of the fittest.
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 7:23PM
I'm sorry you feel like such victim, Conundrum; I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
I'll shed a single tear for you later, after I play the world's smallest violin.
Christopher Landrum| 1.19.11 @ 7:31PM
If I wanted you buy my sympathy, I would've given you a formal sales pitch. After all, I'm a capitalist. And all capitalists believe in survival of the fittest (else they don't survive). Keep on patronizing, Patriot. I salute you.
Christopher Landrum| 1.19.11 @ 5:25PM
typographical corrections: [I didn't address "a" point I didn't make]
[you "should" come right out and call me a coward]
jharp| 1.19.11 @ 2:56PM
"government sponsored health insurance are being hypocrites for favoring repeal of government-sponsored health insurance for other Americans."
What in the hell is government sponsored health insurance?
You completely missed the point. The health insurance provided our Congress is guaranteed acceptance. You cannot be turned down due to a pre existing condition.
Exactly the same as ObamaCare.
What us liberals would like is to see our Congress, especially those with pre existing conditions, do things the same way us commoners do. Go out and buy your own. Don't rely on the governement to guarantee your acceptance.
It has nothing to do with who pays for it.
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 4:12PM
ObamaCare is an unconstitutional, unmitigated disaster and it will be repealed. 26+ states have joined Florida's lawsuit to overturn it.
We won, remember?
If you Liberals are so proud of it, why did you have to sneak the legislation through in the middle of the night on a holiday night?
Chromehawk| 1.19.11 @ 6:16PM
Kaiser permanente Insurance https://www.kaiserpermanente.org/ ( Different from Kaiser Health which is a research NGO ) in California is one of the largest most common health plans offered by businesses to their employees.
Kaiser Insurance is not cheap -- it is also an HMO.
It is not cheap because ... it has NO pre-existing conditions.
Shouldn't all the liberals demand the 15 million people who have kaiser permanente insurance -- especially the ones with pre-existing conditions -- do things the way commoners do?
Or I guess I should say ... shouldn't liberals say it is UNFAIR that those 15 million people are lucky! They should be PUNISHED for being lucky enough to live in a state where the most popular insurance company doesn't enforce pre-exisiting conditions.
OF course, conservatives would ask ... hmmm and I wonder why it is the most popular? Think maybe market forces are such that those companies that charge pre-existing conditions would go out of business if *coughs* Insurance could sell across state lines?!?
jharp| 1.19.11 @ 4:24PM
"We won, remember?"
You really need to learn how our government works.
The democrats still control the Senate and the White House.
And the House can't enact a single piece of legislation without it the approval of both.
God you people are stupid.
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 5:01PM
We'll see. How many cowardly Lib Dem Senators in Conservative states want to publicly fight for ObamaCare before the 2012 elections? Hmmm?
Let's see how loud and proud Claire McCaskill of Missouri will voice her fervent support.
We're not going to let you cowards hide anymore;
no more backroom deals behind closed doors in the middle of the night anymore. Sunshine is the best disinfectant for those who lie, cheat and steal.
Also, Conrad and Lieberman aren't coming back--and that's just the beginning.
Then of course, there are always the COURTS and SCOTUS belongs to us!
We won, remember? LOL
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 5:02PM
Oh, I forgot--the House can and will defund ObamaCare too. You lose.
James Smith| 1.19.11 @ 5:54PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....expectancy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....ality_rate
Make the U.S.A #1 , The U.S.A isn't in the top 30 Countries in either Category, 17/20 Countries in Life Expectancy insure 99% of their Populations ,The Answer Seems Obvious, Might have to Cut some of that Defense Budget though from Spending 41% of the Worlds Defense Budget ...
chromehawk| 1.19.11 @ 6:26PM
http://www.outsidethebeltway.c....._number_1/
Chart adjusted for traffic accidents and homocides.
U.S. number one -- followed by switzerland ( all men must carry guns regularly aspartof the militia ), Norway ( Norway has a large population of hunters. Semi-automatic and bolt action rifles, as well as shotguns, make up the better part of the guns in civilian homes ) , Canada ( take a Canucks guns from his cold dead hands ... ), Denmark ...
Take your $1 trillion ... spend it on public transport and getting guns out of the inner-city and you will accomplish a whole lot more to raise our life-expectancy than health insurance reform.
jharp| 1.19.11 @ 6:09PM
James Smith,
There is no interest in the truth or in facts around here.
We also suck in the infant mortality rates, we spend three times what the rest of the world spends, are the only country that doesn't cover everyone, and the only country where can lose everything you have worked for your entire life simply because you got sick.
And these idiots are trying to preserve this system. God these people are stupid.
Nick| 1.19.11 @ 6:41PM
Why are you crawling back from under whatever rock you've been hidding under, jackass-harp?
Go away, troll!
jharp| 1.19.11 @ 6:49PM
Nick,
Why?
To point out your blistering stupidity and ignorance.
Same reason I showed up here in the first place.
Nice talking to you again.
Nick| 1.19.11 @ 7:21PM
Jousting with you, jackass-harp, is like having a butt-kicking contest with a one legged man. It's not fair on my part, really.
All you offer are inanities and mere assertions, never any facts. You are not interested in honest debate. You are just a drive-by poster.
Be gone.
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 7:33PM
LOL! I saw the old fetid troll, too, Nick. I just couldn't resist cleaning the punk's clock. Poor harpy never could refute my posts. All the coward does is whine.
We have the highest infant mortality rate because we try to save the tiniest and sickest babies, and that skews our survival rate. Our health care is by far the best in the world, and our medical research is without peer, too.
We need more competition among insurance companies, tort reform and less government interference--NOT OBAMACARE!
Thank God for elections and their consequences.
jharp| 1.19.11 @ 9:12PM
Patriot posts... ..."LOL! I saw the old fetid troll, too, Nick. I just couldn't resist cleaning the punk's clock. Poor harpy never could refute my posts."
Too funny. Do you mean the part where you posted that since "we won" that the House is going to repeal ObamaCare without it going to the Senate and the President?
God you people are stupid.
Patriot| 1.19.11 @ 10:38PM
How convenient you didn't try to refute my second post. Not only are you a stupid troll, you're a cowardly troll. And...remember..we won!
Repeal, defund and/or rule ObamaCare unconstitutional! Take your pick--it all works for me.
jharp| 1.20.11 @ 1:42AM
Patriot,
You are an idiot and a loser. And life is too short to waste time conversing with you.
Good luck when being an idiot is considered a pre existing condition should you get your wish.
Patriot| 1.20.11 @ 3:22AM
I did get my wish, I just got rid of you. I won.
Just wait until 2012.
Now crawl back under the slimy rock you call home.
Dale Cord| 1.20.11 @ 12:09PM
To even consider or allowing such an out right defiance of your paid employees to commit mutiny against your will, is the epitome of irresponsible behavior and out right stupidity, on the part of Employer and employee relationships. Would you allow a servant in your household to tell you what the rules are of your household? and then lead you around your house by your nose and genitals after you paid him a salary he demanded for this service? WHAT INSANITY!