The American Spectator

Liberal Reader| 1.11.11 @ 6:51PM

It seems to me that conservatives have made a compelling case regarding the unfairness of blaming the AZ shootings on talk radio hosts, Sarah Palin, or any other legitimate participants in the public arena.

I hope they're not now going to start making lame accusations of their own about whose to blame here.

Limbaugh's absurd claim that the Democratic party is "behind" Loughner was -- we will be told -- hyperbole designed to make a point, presumably a point a master communicator like Limbaugh could make in no other way.

Here in Mr Lord's piece we are urged to believe that the sheriff who made a rash judgment about the causes of the shooting is himself to blame for it.

My guess is this whole hoop-la is more related to the fact that we all know deep down that these things just happen. They are awful, and tragic, but no one but the shooter is to blame.

Two things:

I'm pretty convinced -- again, by sober, reasonable conservative arguments -- that there should be wide latitude granted law abiding citizens to own guns.

But you'd have to be really callous not to see the need for more robust mental health screening -- at least for permits to conceal and carry.

Second, Loughner is almost certainly schizophrenic, and schizophrenia is a treatable condition. More access to affordable mental health may have averted this shooting. I'm not saying he is no culpable; I'm just saying the shooting may have been averted had he been treated with anti-psychotic medicines. I suppose a nine year old girl's life would have been worth it to almost everyone.

Patriot| 1.11.11 @ 7:41PM

Loughner is obviously severely mentally ill, and many on the Left are obviously evil for trying to make political points off his illness.

Interested Conservative| 1.11.11 @ 7:51PM

Here's a perfectly calm follow up question - what role does a sheriff's office, any sheriff's office, have in the mental health process?

Wholly aside from political questions (including how Rush has anything to do with any of this), isn't law enforcement a secondary or tertiary part of the mental health process?

I'm interested in a discussion that doesn't focus on "funding" or "resources", but reviews the legal changes in the past 50 years or so which affect this. Those include, but are hardly limited to, the deinstitutionalization movement, the change in the "loco parentis" doctrine for educational institutions, and the entire line of constitutional rulings hindering official and police acts.

Gun control and speech issues don't make the top 100 relevant issues here.

More fascinating might be taking the left's arguments, almost in whole, and seeing how perfectly applicable they are to the situation in Pakistan - simply change some of the nouns, and the describe the situation there precisely. Unintended, but curious and consistently misdiagnosing the situation.

Liberal Reader| 1.11.11 @ 8:37PM

Well ... I agree with some of what you write here. I'm not sure I'll buy conservative's arguments about how the "left" is to blame in any of this anymore than I bought arguments that the "right" was.

Liberal Reader| 1.11.11 @ 8:40PM

But on gun control.

I'm a little uncertain how a rational person could learn that a psychotic was able legally to purchase a weapon that takes a 30 round clip and not at least pause to consider whether SOME gun control measures may prevent something like this from happening.

Interested Conservative| 1.11.11 @ 9:02PM

Quite a few issues there, but on one note, I don't think Mr. Lord is blaming the "left". He's blaming this sheriff.

The point of my comments is to disregard this sheriff (which he is making difficult) and simply find out where the failure of responsibility is. Even discounting this report, the few seemingly reliable details point to some obvious failures.

Completely apart from the "lefts'" rush to judgment is their rush to ignorance. That's always a danger for the immediate responder, and it's showing in great detail here.

Finally, to discuss "gun control" is to omit the countless other failures which occur long before a nut like this reaches for a weapon. The interesting contrast there is the contrast between a nut's personal liberty (free of compulsory treatment or confinement) and the freedom of the rest of us (which in this case includes the first two amendments).

Patriot| 1.11.11 @ 9:51PM

I blame the Left for using this terrible tragedy to gain political points. It's evil.

Loadmaster| 1.12.11 @ 7:39AM

Your question can be answered quit simply. The guy has NO record (criminal) in Pima Co. Hence, he was allowed to buy the gun and ammo. The Pima Co. Sheriff's department actions remind me of a line in Star Wars. Where the Storm Trooper tell Luke and them "move along" "move along". This is exactly what the Sheriff's depart did to this sicko...move along..move along. Out of site..out of mind.

Loadmaster| 1.12.11 @ 7:39AM

Your question can be answered quit simply. The guy has NO record (criminal) in Pima Co. Hence, he was allowed to buy the gun and ammo. The Pima Co. Sheriff's department actions remind me of a line in Star Wars. Where the Storm Trooper tell Luke and them "move along" "move along". This is exactly what the Sheriff's depart did to this sicko...move along..move along. Out of site..out of mind.

JFGalt| 1.12.11 @ 8:01AM

Its funny how liberals always jump on the gun control argument without any thought of the logic. If you want a gun, you can get it whether or not you want to but it through the system. It comes down to how much you want it. The same market that supplies meth, pot and coke also sells glocks, mac-10's and smith and wessons. Gun control keeps weapons out of the hands on legitimate citizens and in the hands of criminals and police who now use AR-15's to arrest unlicensed barbers. The whole world seems upside down.

pax| 1.13.11 @ 11:16PM

He was *NOT* able to "legally purchase a weapon." He committed a felony to get that weapon. See http://robdoar.com/jared-lough.....ain-a-gun/

Tony| 1.12.11 @ 9:33AM

The right didn't start this, every inflamatory comment in the beginning was made by a reoresentative of the left. Go check your facts and tell me of ONE person on the right that
initially blamed this on the left. All the conservative arguments by radio are generall responses to show how ridiculous the claims have been. Go read the Times, Dupnick and most left wingers in congress and their idiotic statements.

Liberal Reader| 1.11.11 @ 8:53PM

And I agree that the speech issue -- as you call it -- is entirely out of place with regard to the AZ shootings.

I do think the debasement of political discourse in this country is a huge problem, but it seems best to leave it for another time so as not to confuse everything even more.

The problem is not that political rhetoric has become too angry; the problem is that it's become too STUPID.

But the witlessness of cable news talking heads and certain not to be now named former governors had nothing whatsoever to do with a pscyhotic person shooting a bunch of people in Arizona. You'd have to be a fool to think it did. In the end, the nature of American political discourse -- upon which the future of democracy literally depends -- is too important to get all mixed up in something so fraught with emotion.

Patriot| 1.11.11 @ 10:06PM

Of course you'd have to be a fool to believe Palin or Limbaugh had anything to do with Loughner's murderous rampage, a cynical Leftist fool with a political agenda, that is.

Leftists are just enraged because we shellacked them in last year's election, and they're throwing out any disgusting accusation to see if it will stick.

Didn't work though; 57% of Americans disagree with the spurious Leftist assertion. I'm sure your comrades are already searching for the next good crisis not to waste.

Robert Pinkerton| 1.12.11 @ 7:59AM

@Liberal Reader

"... In the end, the nature of American political discourse -- upon which the future of democracy literally depends -- is too important to get all mixed up in something so fraught with emotion."

Sir or Ma'am, as the case may be: While the sentiment is both intrinsically admirable and bien-pensant "admirably(?)" lofty, you must remember that here you are not dealing with Vulcans out of the Star Drek universe, nor Angels, nor any other variety of supernatural or praeternatural sapients. You are dealing with real, live, thinking, feeling (both sensation and emotion), bodily-functional Homines sapientes -- who, especially when their own political oxen get gored, can and do behave just too damn' all-too-human.

I agree that the degree to which hyperbole and gratuitous rudeness have become common currency of political discourse, is lamentable and deplorable. I submit that it is an as-if "Gresham's Law" (metaphorically) of discourse, ruthlessly applied by human "sharks" who read politeness as weakness.

Patriot| 1.12.11 @ 2:27PM

I'm tired of our politeness being misconstrued as weakness. No more rolling over.

Screeder is just the velvet glove over the iron fist of the Leftist movement. We get it.

Dan| 1.11.11 @ 9:58PM

To be sure the shooter is to blame. Everyone bears the responsibility for their own actions. But what about the actions of a sheriff's department that persuades recipients of death threats not to press charges further? This nut-case could have been off the streets. Who bears responsibility for that?

Dave Thompson| 1.11.11 @ 10:46PM

Let's just say this. The left will never, EVER, be able to claim victim status again.

We have seen both sides of the left insanity. Telling us to not jump to conclusions when it came to a Jihadist but jumped to the conclusion that Jared Loughner was a teapartier. In fact that's all they were waiting for. The liberal media, especially the vultures at MSNBC (whos liberal watchers can't even realize how even more biased it is than Fox) prepped the public to expect that for years.

If anything, the liberal media pushed Loughner off the edge.

Jeffrey Lord| 1.11.11 @ 11:33PM

LR...

The real problem here is the Sheriff is whipping up political BS when the issue should be how to detect and deal with the Loughner's of the world...the same question as with the Virginia Tech shooter. Here's a guy who had five run-ins with campus cops, drug problems to boot, was seemingly widely known as a real problem. How in the world does this happen? I used to work for a Congressman and Senator and have been at countless events like this. If Giffords office had known this guy's problem...had a photo...had just a simple local deputy there with an eye out it could have made a difference. Somebody really dropped the ball here, as becomes clearer the more we find out about how widespread was the knowledge the guy was crazy.

Liberal Reader| 1.12.11 @ 10:05AM

I think you have a point. I'll be eager to learn what reporters turn up about what law enforcement knew and when.

I think colleges and universities need to deal much more aggressively with mentally unstable students -- getting them proper care if possible, but certainly seeing to it that they are not disrupting classes and so on, as Loughner was.

And law enforcement too should clearly be better able to address people who may be unstable. All of this is true. We do, however, have civil rights, and the police have limited power.

I still can't imagine why a 10 round clip would be such a horrible thing. The law passed after President Reagan was shot -- allowed to expire by Democrats and Republicans -- might have saved lives in AZ.

Nick| 1.12.11 @ 10:31AM

Marxist Reader,

What law was passed after President Reagan was shot?

And, as I've written here the past few days, on other threads, this murderous scumbag could've built several pipe-bombs with materials found at his local hardware store, and killed more people.

Should we require background checks to purchase plumbing supplies?

Liberal Reader| 1.12.11 @ 11:41AM

All true Nick.

(I was referring to the assault weapons ban. But now that you bring it up, I don't know when that was passed. I thought it was in the early 1980s but I could be wrong.)

He could have built a pipe bomb.

But we're talking about laws that cut down the CHANCES that someone will go on such a shooting spree, not laws that eliminate the possibility that someone will try to kill lots of people.

There are no sure things. This is why we have to be so careful about passing laws. But "careful" doesn't mean completely inflexible.

As I've said, I'm not too confident that gun laws can prevent things like this from happening, but I'm at least open to the idea.

I can assure you of this: gun laws won't be coming from Democrats. If any gun laws are passed, they'll come from Republicans.

Nick| 1.12.11 @ 12:15PM

Marxist Reader,

"But we're talking about laws that cut down the CHANCES that someone will go on such a shooting spree, not laws that eliminate the possibility that someone will try to kill lots of people."

There is NO law that could be passed, in a free society. You are making a distinction without a difference. People who are determined to commit murder don't care about laws. Is this not obvious?

You could pass a law tomorrow banning all firearms. Would it eliminate all guns? No, it would not. Many people, myself included, would not turn in our guns. And, a black market would instantly open up, with machinists and gun smiths making big bucks manufacturing new guns and ammo. Not to mention all the smuggling of firearms that would occur.

The assault (a misnomer, if ever there was one) weapons ban was passed in 1994, thirteen years after President Reagan, Jim Brady, Thomas Delahanty, and Timothy McCarthy were shot.

Three years later, two bank robbers perpetrated the North Hollywood shoot out, wounding 11 police officers and 7 civilians. They used AK-47s with large capacity clips, both illegal under the assault weapons ban.

What good did that law do, Marxist Reader?

Patriot| 1.12.11 @ 2:05PM

You do know that that Screeder considers "Marxist Reader" a compliment, right, Nick? Try calling him "Fascist or Nazi Reader" and watch the troll erupt!

Great fun!

Nick| 1.12.11 @ 2:12PM

Patriot,

Ha-ha!

Screeder knows that I kid, I'm a kidder.
Besides, I know just how to get his goat, when I need to.

Patriot| 1.12.11 @ 2:24PM

Yes, and you do it so well!

Eric Cartman| 1.12.11 @ 2:00AM

Not so fast, LR.
1. Could Limbaugh be using the Left's rhetorical devices against them? I think so.

2. The Sheriff seems to have had several contacts with Loughner. His class mates, community college teens, could see he was troubled. Certainly trained law enforcement officers should have been able to. There is a 72 hr detention they could have used to evaluate him. The sheriff isn't to blame for the shootings, but he has some splainin to do, Lucy. He may have been able to get Uncle Fester's name on a psych list to prevent him from buying a pistol. It's worth looking into.

Liberal Reader| 1.12.11 @ 11:43AM

I'm not all that impressed by the argument that "the Left" does it too. It's pretty weak. Nevertheless, it does have historical precedent:

Why did I eat that apple? The woman you gave me as helpmeet gave it to me, so I ate it.

Patriot| 1.12.11 @ 2:14PM

We're just sick and tired of you Leftists blaming your reprehensible actions on us. It's past time to make you eat your hypocrisy. How does it taste, Dear Screeder?

Clint| 1.11.11 @ 6:59PM

Good Work.
Youhave exposed The Pima County Sheriff, Dupnik orchestrating the story to fit His Agenda.

We Are In A Media War.

The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.

Carpe Diem.

Curtis Rasmussen| 1.11.11 @ 7:00PM

Cut the crap. My daughter was assaulted by a 35 year old nut-job mom that had family support and a good health plan through her husband's company. That didn't stop anything.

Jeez. Peddling Obamacare with the life of a 9 year old child? Please do us a favor and slither back under the rock.

Curtis Rasmussen| 1.11.11 @ 7:01PM

My prior comment is meant for the vile scum known as gliberal screeder.

JmsA| 1.11.11 @ 7:23PM

Believe me CR, we got your meaning.

Western Correspondent| 1.11.11 @ 8:08PM

So, what you're saying is that the "good health plan" didn't fund mental health care for this nut-job mom? Gee, on the basis of that assessment your conclusion is that Obamacare is MUCH WORSE coverage, right?

Sometimes it's transparently clear why reasoning by right wingers is more convoluted in its pathway than Escher's staircases.

Same with the rejection of a reasonable non-judgmental argument by Liberal Reader, rejection with vilification and prejudice. Isn't ANYBODY on right wing message boards suggesting the insults stop, the comments tone down in rhetoric?

Also, just SO WHAT if Loughner's mother is employed as a "Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation"? Do you think Loughner would have been helped if he went on more field trips in the County Parks? Do you think there's some relationship between the County Parks & Recreation and the skeletal poorly funded mental health services in the County?

Until Obamacare passed, Jared Loughner would NOT have been covered under his mother's workplace health insurance, since he's been over 18 now for 4 years; now that it is January 2011, he is.

And one last thing: WHAT do you all think a County Sheriff can do in the case of someone who needs mental health treatment, yet no one has actually followed through on filing a complaint? Reports seem to indicate "the authorities" at his schools didn't back up their complaints.

And do you think a County Sheriff can just arbitrarily arrest the guy, when he hasn't done anything (up to last Saturday) except look menacing, strange, and act really weird? Wow, would that ever get the civil libertarians up in arms.

Curtis Rasmussen| 1.11.11 @ 8:29PM

"Western Correspondent| 1.11.11 @ 8:08PM
So, what you're saying is that the "good health plan" didn't fund mental health care for this nut-job mom? Gee, on the basis of that assessment your conclusion is that Obamacare is MUCH WORSE coverage, right?"

Nonsense. Liberal Reader, you're not fooling anyone. Your straw man arguments concerning healthcare and gun control are boringly obvious. You pulled a page from Rahm's playbook, don't let a crisis go to waste, especially if it involves dead 9 year olds.

Once again, go climb under a rock you vile scum. Enough said.

Clint| 1.11.11 @ 8:33PM

He has a police record including repeatedly making death threats, The five campus police called disturbances, vandalism, marijuana arrest.

The story is coming out now & this is what Sheriff Dupnik knew and when he knew it, before he attempted to insinuate & cast blame at The Conservative Media, The Tea Party, Sarah Palin , Rush Limbaugh,etc.

This ain't over.

Tony| 1.12.11 @ 9:41AM

And do you think a County Sheriff can just arbitrarily arrest the guy, when he hasn't done anything (up to last Saturday) except look menacing, strange, and act really weird? Wow, would that ever get the civil libertarians up in arms.
Think you should know that it is legally much easier than you think to have someone who has acted as though he would hurt someone compentently tested. Perhaps if you listened to other points of view you would have known that.

Clint| 1.12.11 @ 10:14AM

Duuuuhhhh !

A County Sheriff can arrest the guy for vandalism, marijuana, death threats.

I Survived Arlen Specter| 1.11.11 @ 8:24PM

Thanks Curtis & I couldn't have said it better. Take care & GOD bless!

Liberal Reader| 1.11.11 @ 8:44PM

Curtis --

Frankly your method of arguing is pretty sleazy. If your daughter was assaulted, that's a terrible thing, and I hope whoever did it was arrested and punished. However, I don't see how that bears on what I was saying. The idea that treating mentally ill people might prevent something like this from happening can hardly be a surprise to any adult living in the modern world. Mentally ill people are treated all the time successfully. I wasn't using the 9 year old child for anything. The fact is amont the victims was a 9 year old child, and I'd like to see less of a chance of there being more shootings like this killing more people.

Patriot| 1.11.11 @ 10:09PM

What's really sleazy is asserting that ObamaCare would have prevented this tragedy. Talk about crazy.

Nik of Time| 1.11.11 @ 7:16PM

Dupenik knew. Dumbnik sue. Dumpnik too.

Real American| 1.11.11 @ 7:37PM

If this info is true, it isn't just that Barney Fife blew it, but that he didn't take care of Loughner b/c he was has a relative in the govt. Sounds like special treatment gone awry.

Red Phillips| 1.11.11 @ 7:39PM

"deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved"

This may well have been true had he really been "well managed by the mental health system," but this doesn't seem to have been the case. I haven't seen any references that he was receiving care.

Western Correspondent| 1.11.11 @ 8:33PM

"TheChollaJumps" may have gotten his source in HIPAA hot water by the revelatory statement, "When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County."

If all that is true, and sourced accurately, it should be fairly easy to pinpoint who violated HIPAA law in leaking that kind of information. That's going to cost the source, and may impact TheChollaJumps as an accessory.

CalMark| 1.11.11 @ 8:48PM

Goodness gracious, yes. Go get those nasty conspirators! Put 'em in jail! Indict 'em for conspiracy! Get the cat-o'-nine-tails!

A guy makes death threats, his classmates are afraid he'll spray a classroom with lead--but by gosh, his got rights to privacy are supreme! How dare anyone reveal that this lunatic is being treatment for violent psychosis!

Thank goodness for HIPAA and all those other laws. That is, those privacy laws that are only relevant when leftist Democrat interests are at stake.

My understanding is that a lot of these laws go out the window when the person is a violent criminal.

If you're a conservative, shame on you for your pseudo-objective wonkery. If you're a Democrat, your leftist hypocrisy is typical--and par for the course.

irish19| 1.11.11 @ 10:02PM

Please explain how the HIPAA law was violated. I don't understand this.

Patriot| 1.11.11 @ 10:12PM

I thought you liberals were all for whistle-blowers like TheChollaJumps? Oh, just the whistle-blowers who benefit you, I forgot.

Tim Williams| 1.12.11 @ 10:25AM

I'm not sure where the HIPAA violation would be. Deputies, according to this report, assured callers that Loughner was receiving mental health care - a fact which the relevant authorities currently deny. I'm not sure how making up stories about an individual's health care would be a HIPAA violation.

And if it turns out he actually was receiving care, then the HIPAA violation occurred when the deputies spoke on those calls (or when the deputies received the information themselves,) not when Cholla Jumps reported it.

MikeBee| 1.12.11 @ 10:44AM

WC,
It violates none of the HIPAA law to reveal that the shooter's relative works for the public. Public employees' names, and, in some places, even their salaries are public information. As everyone on the Right keeps saying, please avoid the temptation to publicly make wild speculations. Too many on the Left are falling prey to this temptation, in their belief that they are the smartest people in the room. Oh, yes! HIPAA laws! No one has even THOUGHT about that, yet! This makes me smarter than all of them! What hogwash!

Clint| 1.11.11 @ 8:42PM

Notice how The Apologist is shifting away from Sheriff Dupnik's cynical unprofessional orchestrated attack on The Conservative Media, The Tea Party, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, etc. after Sheriff Dupnik knew about Loughner's record all along.

Cornhole & moonpie| 1.11.11 @ 8:46PM

" Spare the taser and spoil the child"!

irish19| 1.11.11 @ 10:03PM

Your nik scares me.

Wesley Mouch| 1.11.11 @ 8:58PM

This shooting is generating a lot of attention on this & other "conservative" websites for a very good reason. When right wing politicians talk about second amendment solutions if the ballot box fails, when other politicians put crosshairs over congressional districts & say don't retreat, reload, the psychos hear it too. Not just the normal people. Now, from most of you we hear that this sort of speech is not responsible, or that it's the left's fault because they say irresponsible thing too. The sense of guilt is palpable.

I want to here from the conservatives who want to wear the man pants & own this thing. All I hear is all the cowards running away from the whirlwind that they have sown. Maybe someone will stop the lizard brain thinking on this site & start talking about civil discourse & dumping the loser radicals that have led your party to where it is now.

Interested Conservative| 1.11.11 @ 9:15PM

Interesting argument you've constructed there.

Not very persuasive, but interesting.

CalMark| 1.11.11 @ 9:17PM

My god, you are a snide, vicious piece of work!

Where is the specific connection that this kid was an active consumer of conservative commentary?

We know that he preferred to smoke pot and had a pagan skull altar, which are not things normally associated with Tea Partiers.

As for your snide little attacks about "man pants"--what about your hero Obama, who said things like, "Punish your enemies!" and "Bring a gun to a knife fight." I guess that's just normal, acceptable political rhetoric, huh? Maybe that's who this kid listened to.

Wesley Mouch| 1.11.11 @ 9:25PM

We have seen that the leaders of your party are no better than Obama so why support them. Only Pawlenty is making a weak attempt to state that we should tone it down a little. This is where the adults take responsibility for the error of their ways & the children continue to blame each other.

Interested Conservative| 1.11.11 @ 9:28PM

And the leaders of your party have bad breath! Take that!

CalMark| 1.11.11 @ 9:42PM

I'm ask for proof of your attacks on conservatives, and you denounce me. I demonstrate the kid had more in common with leftists (a weird form of atheism, limitless pot-smoking, etc.), and you say both sides are bad.

Two words: intolerant and incoherent.

irish19| 1.11.11 @ 10:07PM

I might ask where the calls for moderation were on the left during the eight years of vile rhetoric, assassination fantasies, and actual calls for the assassination of G. W. Bush. Where were the calls for moderation from the left when Sarah Palin was and continues to be viciously attacked?
I suggest the biblical admonition to look to the beam in your own eye before talking about the mote in mine is very much applicable here.

Wesley Mouch| 1.11.11 @ 10:25PM

You make a very good point about the Bush years. That being said, you know in your hearts that this is getting over the top. No one can SERIOUSLY believe that the left in this country are devoutees of Marx, Lenin, or Hitler. In your guts, you know it's nuts. Typing on here about how the Democrats are going to turn the US into a gulag of Obamabots is nuts.

So either own it, or refute it.

Interested Conservative| 1.11.11 @ 10:31PM

You might want to be careful in building your straw men there.

Of the list Marx, Lenin, and Hitler, certainly no to the latter two, but Marx is in another intellectual class, and many current intellectuals are in that class as well, and of those in politics not many are in the GOP.

Just saying.

CalMark| 1.11.11 @ 10:44PM

"I assert that you say/believe/support X. Refute my assertion to my (impossible-to-achieve) satisfaction, or you are scum."

WM has mastered Leftist "argument." Somewhere, Lenin (a master of such dishonest "discourse") is glowing with pride!

Patriot| 1.11.11 @ 11:10PM

You're nuts if you don't think the Left is trying to turn our country into a gulag. Bill Ayers has asserted that it might be necessary to eliminate 25 million "die-hard capitalists" in re-education camps if they won't assimilate.

We know EXACTLY who and what you monsters are.

Patriot| 1.11.11 @ 10:20PM

Obama stated that he would bring a gun to a knife fight with the Republicans--where are your self-righteous cries of indignation over his violent rhetoric? He's the president and he should start acting like it.

Dave Thompson| 1.11.11 @ 10:49PM

So, what could possibly the consequences of the left's climate of hate against everything conservative, from the Tea Party to Sarah Palin, not to mention George Bush, that was a total hate-fest... did Bush ever even while about it ONCE?

Dave Thompson| 1.11.11 @ 10:50PM

I mean *whine* about it.

Seriously, any mature and objective person should look seriously at what camp they are in, and switch to the pro-American and pro-liberty side while it's time.

Warrior| 1.11.11 @ 11:09PM

You're way to myopic in your approach. This is the same argument that violence on television will lead to a child growing up violent. Like global warming, all there is are theories and opinions and no basis in fact to prove an argument. In society, unions are battling companies, football games are called battles, war on poverty, war on drugs, some sports scores are massacres...the examples are endless. Political rhetoric has been heated since before Pontius Pilate. Conservatives do not need to run away as they have not sown any of this and civil discourse has always taken a beating when speaking about politics and religion.

Your post is as much bullshit as any, just seems you want to be a pseudo intellectual about it. Political words and arguments had as much effect on the psycho Loughner as you not driving your SUV to work has on climate change.

Rune| 1.11.11 @ 9:03PM

@Liberal Reader: Here's a link to a DHS memo from a site I consider reputable: http://tiny.cc/qwfk0
you can make your own determination. Notice
* suspect’s mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors
* the suspect has multiple arrests … But no criminal record?
As for laws that keep the mentally unstable from purchasing guns, we do have them. Here is another article pertaining to that question: http://on.wsj.com/dJJyqC

Clint| 1.11.11 @ 9:57PM

Apparently,there it is,The Cover Up:
* suspect’s mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors
* the suspect has multiple arrests … But no criminal record?

CalMark| 1.11.11 @ 10:53PM

You're onto something there.

Family statment parahprased: "Leave us alone. We feel really bad for the families of the victims, but we can't explain this. Yes, we enabled our son, who was living with us, by doing nothing when he acted out like a maniac in so many ways. This tragedy is a mystery of the universe. So just leave us alone."

Patriot| 1.11.11 @ 11:13PM

Thanks for that. I'm sure their sentiments must bring great comfort and solace to the grieving parents of the 9 year old little girl.

CalMark| 1.12.11 @ 12:34AM

I don't know about you, but the statement by the killer's family infuriated me. Psychobabble, cluelessness, and self-absorption.

Enabling evil is at least as bad as the evil itself. The family of this blatantly dangerous lunatic stood idly by while he built his crazy altar, smoked pot (they didn't notice THAT?) and behaved in a scary, unbalanced way (getting expelled from school for being a threat to others is apparently not a warning sign). Now they act surprised that he did something horrific. Please.

A great man (I can't remember who) once said that "evil is banal." In this case, it fits all around.

Patriot| 1.12.11 @ 1:23AM

Life's not fair; too bad Jerad didn't keep his violence at home where it belonged. I'm so sorry for those who were wounded and killed, and for their suffering families.

Marco| 1.11.11 @ 11:29PM

So, Pawlenty says the right should tone it down, eh? Well, adios Timmy! No 2012 nomination for you.

Patriot| 1.12.11 @ 1:16AM

Timmy's just another Mealy Mouthed RINO.

CJ| 1.12.11 @ 1:37AM

In many states, including Arizona, law enforcement officers can have someone emergently detained for at least 24 hours for psychiatric evaluation if they feel they are a danger to themselves or others. Sounds like the sherrif's office had multiple opportunities to do this and this tragedy should have been prevented. As usual, the media fixates on nonsense and ignores the real issue, potentially dangerous individuals with utreated mental illness.

EMAVERICK| 1.12.11 @ 5:55AM

I READ HE BOUGHT A GUN AND HAD TO HAVE AN FBI CHECK , HOW DOES ONE GET APPROVAL IF YOUR UNDERGOING MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENTS?

pax| 1.13.11 @ 11:24PM

He lied on the form, breaking the law and committing a felony, in order to get the gun.

EMAVERICK| 1.12.11 @ 6:00AM

REPRESSED PARENTAL HATRED ACTED OUT ON THE VICTIMS.

martin j smith| 1.12.11 @ 9:21AM

The sheriff of Pima country has actually made a good case for the argument of the Left using the tradgedy for political purposes
Second Rush Limbaugh's main argument ( which i happen to agree with is that the Left is using this incident for political gain.
I think that the very morning after the incident Paul Krugman posting an incendiary column shows that certanly the NYT and other MSM are mostly concerned about shutting up those who disagree.
For me the Democrat Party has enough "vitriol"to answer for and need their own rehabilitation. We on the other side will deal with our own issues.
The most distressing thing for me is the realization that I can no longer view Democrat Party . under the leadership of the likes of Obama as having the best interest of this nation at heart-even when there is disagreement. Now the disagreements are fundamental to the point of the question: What form of government do we want ?
That is the polarizing issue that this administration has created. And, the impression ck that the who kit and caboudl from the Left boils down to: SHUT UP !!!m is if I may say unacceptable.

A.M. Mallett| 1.12.11 @ 9:49AM

woah ... leftist liberal nut job sheriff drops big ball resulting in mass murder

Learning| 1.12.11 @ 5:49PM

While I agree that the left is using this incident as a bludgeon, the right should hold its glee over the story about the Sheriff.

Tracing back the link "The Cholla Jump" will not devulge his source.

Patriot| 1.12.11 @ 7:18PM

Why shouldn't we be gleeful that the Sheriff has proven to be a lying Leftist hack?

Learning| 1.12.11 @ 7:43PM

That's the point. Wait until its proven.