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The Spectacle Blog
Liberals who have attempted to exploit the tragedy in Arizona for political gain by trying to connect Sarah Palin to the shooting should be ashamed of themselves. At this point, we have more reason to blame the revolutionary writings of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels for what happened today. To clarify my intentions in making this point, I’m not trying to blame Marx and Engles. As I noted in an earlier post, it’s far too early to speculate on the shooters’ motives, and it’s hard to make out any coherent set of ideological beliefs from his ramblings. But that hasn’t stopped the left from pointing fingers at Palin. In the absence of any evidence, many liberals have settled on the nebulous arguement that Palin helped to contribute to a generalized climate of inflamatory political rhetoric, which made somebody who was insane turn to violence. From a pure journalistic perspective, there is absolutely no evidence that alleged shooter Loughner had ever seen Palin’s famed target map, let alone that he was motivated by it. Yet in a YouTube page believed to be created by Loughner — and widely cited in the media as such — the alleged shooter actually names the Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books and, unlike the subliminal message liberals attribute to Palin’s map, Marx and Engles explicitly advocated political violence. Below, I’ve compiled some examples from the Manifesto (my emphasis in bold).
The weapons with which the bourgeoisie felled feudalism to the ground are now turned against the bourgeoisie itself.
But not only has the bourgeoisie forged the weapons that bring death to itself; it has also called into existence the men who are to wield those weapons — the modern working class — the proletarians….
Though not in substance, yet in form, the struggle of the proletariat with the bourgeoisie is at first a national struggle. The proletariat of each country must, of course, first of all settle matters with its own bourgeoisie.In depicting the most general phases of the development of the proletariat, we traced the more or less veiled civil war, raging within existing society, up to the point where that war breaks out into open revolution, and where the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie lays the foundation for the sway of the proletariat.
What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable.
“The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat.”“If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organise itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.”
(The context of the following is a criticism of the approach of socialists —PK)
“Hence, They reject all political, and especially all revolutionary action; they wish to attain their ends by peaceful means, necessarily doomed to failure, and by the force of example, to pave the way for the new social Gospel.
Such fantastic pictures of future society, painted at a time when the proletariat is still in a very undeveloped state and has but a fantastic conception of its own position, correspond with the first instinctive yearnings of that class for a general reconstruction of society.
“The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Working Men of All Countries, Unite”
View all comments (107) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Philip Klein
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/01/08/loughner-and-the-violent-rheto
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John R. Guardiano | 1.8.11 @ 9:29PM
Philip, you're absolutely right. But it's not only Palin that many lefties are disgustingly trying to implicate in the Giffords shooting incident. Some lefties also have their rhetorical gunsights on Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann.
And, as I note in a piece now up at the Daily Caller, one of the grossest offenders is lefty blogger Matthew Yglesias.
http://bit.ly/e5SCiG
Interestingly, Yglesias wrongly indicts Bachmann based on comments that she made about our colleague, fellow AmSpec contributor Chris Horner.
Scott Sundvall| 1.8.11 @ 11:26PM
What is demonstrated here is a gross misreading of Marxist ideology. In order to appropriately understand what Marx means by force, one must first understand the dialectic system; that is, the dialectic system--a historical methodology by which to understand history, first established by Hegel--is one that is always undergoing change by means of "force." To conflate this philosophical concept of "force" with everyday violence is to grossly misunderstand many philosophical traditions of historicity.
If that does not suit you, consider the expediency in claiming that the Communist Manifesto is the same as providing an infographic with sniper crosshairs.
If we're going to make these kind of irrational claims, we ought to attack the Bible, as well. We've all read that, and it's full of violence. But we don't really want to do that, now do we?
darcy| 1.8.11 @ 11:49PM
Tell that to the 100 million people killed in the 20th Century as a DIRECT result of Marxist teaching.
See: The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression (Stephanie Courtois, Nicolas Werth, Jean-Louis Panne, Andrzej Paczkowski, Karel Barotsek, and Jean-Louis Margolin; translated by Jonathan Murphy and Mark Kramer; Harvard University Press, 1999; 858 pages.)
Would you like to borrow my copy?
Brad Woods| 1.8.11 @ 11:54PM
Scott: Except he wasn't reading the Bible, now, was he? And that is the point.
As a matter of fact, if you would check the interviews with anyone that knew him in school, he hated religion.
scythe| 1.9.11 @ 2:47AM
Stuff it asshole. People like you left wing ghouls always use "the Bible rhetoric" whenever they are caught with their red diaper down. Oooo! That'll shut them up and make you look soooo intellectual. Yeah. Right. The violence that has drenched this country in blood in the last fifty years has come from the left, instigated by the left against the right, and then blamed on the right. It's not different now. Only this time it won't work. If you think that Tea Party people are going to back down because we are afraid of being called names thereby allowing you left wing assholes to commit more violence against the will of the people, their property, families, and the constitution, you have another thought coming. Only the left murders and then stands there and makes it look like everyone else in the problem.
SBVOR | 1.9.11 @ 2:48AM
Scott Sundvall seems to be saying that the mass slaughter of millions in the name of Marxist ideology should never be trivialized down to the level of mere pedestrian “everyday violence”.
First…
Since when is the murder of a federal judge, the attempted murder of a Congresswoman, the slaughter of a nine year old girl, the murder of four others and the wounding of at a dozen more amount to “everyday violence”? That is an utterly INSANE allegation!
Second…
Sundvall backs this INSANITY up with the “dialectic” of a tyrannical nut job quoted to have said:
“… the State 'has the supreme right against the individual, whose supreme duty is to be a member of the State... for the right of the world spirit is above all special privileges.”
What a freaking WHACK JOB this Sundvall is!
SBVOR | 1.9.11 @ 5:18AM
Scott Sundvall ignorantly & robotically regurgitates rhetoric describing:
“an infographic with sniper crosshairs”.
Click here and expose his ignorance.
Jane| 1.9.11 @ 2:36PM
Are we going to assume that the shooter, who is clearly mentally unstable, read the Communist Manifesto in the way that you feel it should be perceived? He listed it as one of his favorite books. Nowhere has he listed Palin or the Tea party as his influences.
Clint| 1.10.11 @ 4:23PM
the Bible? Really? The Bible is violent but the few instances of violence are not marching orders or a "how to" manual, but orders for a specific group of people at a specific time. These orders are not good for all time and in all places.
To say that we ought to critisize the Bible as we do the Communist Manifesto is ignorance.
ejp| 1.8.11 @ 10:04PM
This is the same crap act the left put on on November 22, 1963 when they insisted JFK was murdered as a result of the "climate of hate" in the nation (translation the Right) while ignoring to their best effort the fanatical devotion of Lee Harvey Oswald to Marxist ideology. When I look back at the JFK coverage in my personal archive I want to gag every time someone talked about how this act by someone who had been a traitor to this country somehow said something bad about America. They pulled this same con game again in 1968 by ignoring Sirhan Sirhan's background and motives in killing RFK and now here they are again.
And it will be noted that on the day Ronald Reagan was shot did ANYONE in the conservative movement dare to accuse the Left of being responsible before the facts came in about John Hinckley and his perverted Jodie Foster obsession? Nope, not a one. Which should say plenty.
Booger| 1.8.11 @ 10:11PM
While Congresswoman Giffords is, thankfully, expected to recover, Justice Roll has been killed. While Giffords wounds are tragic, Roll's death is more so. Roll was a relatively conservative justice appointed by Bush 41. This assassin appears not to have been driven by any normal "right" or "left" wing American (Dem v. Rep) ideology as much as by madness and narcissism. Both the Dems (Giffords) and Repubs (Roll) were targets and victims today. Pointing fingers at anyone other than the actual perp is futile and counter-productive.
Cordially,
Booger
Booger| 1.8.11 @ 10:12PM
Just to clarify, I state the Roll's death is "more" tragic simply because he will not recover, not as a matter of the ideology of the victims.
Michael Clark| 1.8.11 @ 10:13PM
He also listed Mein Kampf as a favorite book, which is, of course, a right-wing manifesto. Unlike Marx, Hitler did actually go out and kill millions of non-Christians and communists. Like you said, let's wait and see and not try to make political hay.
Nick| 1.8.11 @ 10:40PM
Mein Kampf is a left-wing manifesto, as Hitler was head of the National Socialist Workers' Party.
Nice try though.....NOT!
Michael Clark| 1.8.11 @ 10:57PM
It's amazing to me that NAZI propagada is still working 70 years later. They chose the name National Socialists to give the appearance of credibility. They were, in fact, right-wing nationalistic Christian white supremacist paranoid militaristic fascists. Their arch enemies were real socialists.
Todd S| 1.8.11 @ 11:35PM
You sir are a scumbag moron, get your socialist commie propaganda the hell out of here you asshole Marx worshipper
ak| 1.8.11 @ 11:42PM
And China's government is really Republican, too!
Nick| 1.8.11 @ 11:42PM
Noooo.
It's amazing that there are still Useful Idiots, like yourself, still around 90 years after the Bolsheviks evil reign began.
That's what your hero, Lenin, called you guys. You do know that, right?
Interested Conservative| 1.9.11 @ 1:07AM
Of all the names you've called them, "Christians" is very interesting.
Even the Nazi hierarchy would be surprised at that.
"Real socialists" seems a bit tautological as well.
More research would help.
KDW| 1.9.11 @ 3:12PM
Nazism is a left-wing ideology. It espouses total
control of it's citizens by the state. Any German
citizen, during Hitler's reign could have had their
freedom, property and very lives taken from them
on a whim by the German Government (of course
the Jews are the most obvious example). How
is that any different from Soviet Communism?
The American Conservative movement (exemplified by the Tea Party) believes in
individual and economic freedom for all
citizens. Conservatives also believe in limited,
constitutional government. How in the world
does belief in individual freedom and limited
government equate with Nazi Totalitarianism?
By the way, the killers favorite reading material
(Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto)
is probably very similar to that of your typical
Obama Czar/Cabinet Official.
Simon Templar| 1.9.11 @ 4:05PM
You will just not respect reality, truth, or fact..will you? Hitler hated christianity and sought to destroy it like all good socialist. Militarism and fascism are left wing concepts and philosophies that spring directly from the founder himself, Marx, who coined the term Dictatorship of the Proletariat and the concept of the Supremacy of the State. the Nazi Propaganda you speak of is actually the reverse. Hitler attempted to coopt nationalistic anti-communist groups and business interest by appealing and adopting their political rhetoric to create a unified political German coalition.
scythe| 1.9.11 @ 2:53AM
A RIGHT WING MANIFESTO?????? HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST. HE STATED HIS NAZISM WAS A BRANCH OF THE TREE OF MARXISM. HE AND STALIN WERE IDEOLOGICAL BROTHERS. INTERNATIONAL SOCIALISM. NATIONAL SOCIALISM. GET THE CONNECTION, DUNDERHEAD? The NAZIS WERE LEFT WINGERS. THE LEFT SAID THEY WERE ON THE RIGHT ONLY TO MAKE COMMUNISM LOOK BETTER THAN NAZISM AFTER THE WORLD SAW THE EVILS OF HITLER. BUT THEN AGAIN, STALIN KILLED MANY MILLIONS MORE. The days are long gone when anyone can pull that crap anymore. You are either a liar or a towering blob of stupidity and ignorance. You are too stupid to realize that all you are doing is regurgitating left wing propaganda.
Sean| 1.8.11 @ 10:22PM
Actually Mein Kampf would be a leftwing manifesto. The National Socialists were big government types.
Andrew| 1.8.11 @ 10:23PM
Why it was only last year that Marx and Engels said it was time to "reload." They had also promised that a "summer of rage" was coming and compelled others to be ready, to watch closing the currency before its inevitable "collapse."
Kingofthenet| 1.8.11 @ 10:23PM
This guy was a 'bagger' just look under the credits for this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQvIDk5lgDg
It's time the Govt. lists the 'Tea Party' as a Terrorist Organization!
darcy| 1.8.11 @ 11:55PM
That's a good one, Kingofthenet; the government can list roughly one-third of the American public -- who support the Tea Party agenda -- as a terrorist organization.
Get your head out of PC la-la land, you idiot.
Warrior | 1.9.11 @ 9:46AM
While Kingofthenet is another liberal scumbag troll, you miss his point. Please recall that our own progressive government decided to name returning veterans as potential terrorists. His left wing ideology has no problem asking his progressive government to watch those who would protect liberty and/or live by a religious and moral standard.
lol| 1.8.11 @ 10:26PM
Was he Tea Party Express -- that is regular GOP
William| 1.8.11 @ 10:38PM
The dictionary defines 'liberal' as:
favorable to progress
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression
of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant
open-minded
characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts
So, if you hate liberals so much...does that make you the opposite - an aristocrat seeking control, against personal freedoms, selfish and greedy, closed-minded, against progress, or an intolerant bigot ? Or is it that you just like name calling and obfuscating the truth? The truth is that the spirit of America is equal to the definition of liberal...individual freedom, freedom from monarchy and aristocracy, open minded, generous, etc. Being disingenuous only makes you part of the problem not part of any solution that honestly represents the true spirit of America.
Nick| 1.8.11 @ 10:45PM
Bleeding heart liberals wouldn't know the true spirit of America if it smacked them in the head.
You guys hate America. Er...excuse me, Amerika as you patriotic liberals like to write it.
William| 1.8.11 @ 11:14PM
Ha, like I said, it's the dictionary DEFINITION of liberal...something most people with half a brain use as a measure of ...uh...the definition of something. Oh, by the way, 'definition' means ...uh...what something 'means'. So, judging by your post, you are an over educated aristocrat, who believes in greed and selfishness, does not believe in progress (watch out for China buddy), are closed-minded (the world is still flat is it?), and you are an intolerant bigot?
So, if 'us guys' hate Amerika (your usage not mine - it's spelled with a 'c'), what does that make you...someone who hates everything, including your reflection in a mirror?
Again, I was just quoting the bleeding dictionary. Oh, gosh, does that mean the dictionary is a "bleeding heart liberal"? You got me so confused now.
Nick| 1.8.11 @ 11:45PM
Liberal, today, means closeted marxist.
Patriot| 1.12.11 @ 3:16AM
Exactly! And we all know how many people were slaughtered by evil Marxists.
Brad Woods| 1.9.11 @ 12:00AM
So you're right--the Dems are not liberals. They practice nothing of what that definition says. As a matter of fact, they are in practice quite the opposite. I guess calling left-wingers and the DNC liberals is an insult to liberals. Sorry. I apologize for having done that so many times.
william| 1.9.11 @ 9:43AM
Brad, you are very correct. America is so far right it is ridiculous...liberal Dems with all hands on deck are slinging anchors starboard too. As you may note; I never spoke of or referenced Democrats in any of my posts...I am merely speaking about the use/misuse of the true meaning of liberal in the English Language...
Amurica's ficcial langwage is Merican, isn't it...or is it English? Ah, from whence we .....
Yes, calling any card carrying members of the DNC liberals would be an insult to liberals as you define them perhaps, except the definition of liberals is branded by tolerance and progress, so we'd just have compassion fer ye.
SBVOR | 1.9.11 @ 3:26AM
William,
Are you the very last fool to still argue that tired old tripe?
So-called “Progressives” long ago hijacked -- in name only -- the noble tradition of Classical Liberalism. After these totalitarian tyrants ran that name into the ground, they then reverted back to the “Progressive” moniker -- the assumption being that nobody remembered the horrors of the Woodrow Wilson “Progressive” era.
Catch a clue, MORON!
william| 1.9.11 @ 10:13AM
SBVOR (is that Danish?)...um...so what you're saying is the dictionary is "old tripe"? Well, perhaps in ur wurld it has sadly become so. The only political reference in my post was the part of the definition that spoke of freedom from monarchy and aristocracy. All of this Democratic nonsense is in your imagination good buddy.
Oops, gotta go....Breaker 1-9, smokey bear sniffing beaver sighting semi auto shootin' moose n i'm kwalified to run the world...over.
SBVOR | 1.9.11 @ 1:01PM
"so what you're saying is the dictionary is "old tripe"?"
No...
I'm saying trolls like you are "tripe" -- look it up, moron.
m| 1.8.11 @ 10:48PM
An awfully defensive piece for someone who claims "it's far too early to speculate on the shooters' (sic) motives".
If too early to speculate, why bother copying and pasting from the Communist Manifesto with inflammatory speculation of your own? Where is the real journalism? Not here.
replay| 1.8.11 @ 11:16PM
Here's a bit of 'cut and paste' for Sean and Nick, and anyone else who thinks Hitler was a Socialist. Please, please learn some history!
"In April, 1920, Hitler advocated that the party should change its name to the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). Hitler had always been hostile to socialist ideas, especially those that involved racial or sexual equality. However, socialism was a popular political philosophy in Germany after the First World War.
Hitler, therefore redefined socialism by placing the word 'National' before it. He claimed he was only in favour of equality for those who had "German blood". Jews and other "aliens" would lose their rights of citizenship, and immigration of non-Germans should be brought to an end."
Yep . . . sounds about right for the Tea Party.
Todd S| 1.8.11 @ 11:44PM
You are an ignorant fool, go back to the Daily Kos with your nonsense. Government being in control of the means of production is socialist and that is what Hitler did not to mention he nationalized health care. You might want to look into the eugenics movement of the 20's and 30's which was very closely allied with socialism and the left but you don't want to know the truth do you troll?
Replay| 1.9.11 @ 12:04AM
Yes, Todd S. . . . the Rockefellers, the Carnegies, the Harrimans . . . all good socialists them, eh? Let's see . . . Rockefellers helped found the eugenics movement in Germany and even funded Mengele's program.
Please, please read some history, Todd S.
And, Todd S., nearly every industrialized country in the world - politics aside - has nationalized health care. That really is not the crux of the socialist movement.
Good luck with your research and, one hopes, enlightenment!
Todd S| 1.9.11 @ 12:41AM
Does the name Margaret Sanger ring a bell? You know the founder of that great humanitarian group Planned Parenthood liberals like you are so fond of?
What is your source for what you say about Rockefeller? It is true that today that the Rockefeller's are pretty much socialists and their foundation supports all kinds of leftists causes like killing unborn babies and other progressive causes. And lets be honest, nationalized health care is a crux of socialism because if you control that, you can control everything if you want.
Nick| 1.9.11 @ 12:03AM
Posting quotes from other fellow travelers does not make your case. In fact, it detracts from it.
Replay| 1.9.11 @ 12:06AM
Dear Nick, I'm simply following the blog writer's lead. Did his quotes and cut/paste detract from his case?
Cheers!
Nick| 1.9.11 @ 12:28AM
No, it didn't. You're comparing apples to oranges, as you lefties usually do.
1) Mr. Klein used his ideological opposites to make his point. You did not. I thought I made this clear with the term fellow travelers.
2) The point Mr. Klein made was completely different than the point you failed to make. He was showing that you can't blame the writtings of others for the actions of someone. People are responsible for their own deeds.
You were trying to repeat commie propaganda to make a historical point. See the difference?
Christina| 1.9.11 @ 3:11PM
Fascism:
"Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.”
Sounds like liberal leaning policies to me. "No tax cuts for the rich."
Pete| 1.8.11 @ 11:18PM
When the leader of your country pits race against race and class against class, day after day, it isn't a stretch that some loonie would eventually snap.
Noah Kristula-Green| 1.8.11 @ 11:29PM
Your realize this entire blog post is based on the fact that the guy lists the Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books, when he also list "We the Living" by Ayn Rand to, right?
You can at least attack ALL the authors that he cites!
Laura| 1.9.11 @ 12:26AM
Bingo! Neither left nor right. He also cites Animal Farm.
Eric Cartman| 1.9.11 @ 2:31AM
Lefties read Ayn Rand. And George Orwell. Lefties read all sorts of books, not just the ones they love, like Rules for Radicals. They may even like Ayn Rand - she was anti-religion. Maybe that's what he liked about her. I like her writing and I'm somewhat religious. He was a Lefty according to a friend from high school. And has a definite mental disorder - like all Lefties. So, by any account that matters (not his library), he's a big Lefty.
SBVOR | 1.9.11 @ 3:40AM
"You can at least attack ALL the authors that he cites!"
Fine...
If you want to play the moral equivalence game, then simply cite where Ayn Rand ever advocated violence.
Oh, yeah...
She never did. Sorry! Nice try -- NOT!
Warrior | 1.9.11 @ 9:49AM
At one point he also liked Dr. Seuss and National Geographic. Do you really have a point?
Todd S| 1.8.11 @ 11:40PM
The point is Noah is that the media does not want these inconvenient details known and wants to make this guy to be associated with the Tea Party when nothing could be further from the truth. He is a complete lunatic and Palin, Limbaugh or Beck had nothing to do with his actions. Anyone that says otherwise is full of crap like that Krugman asshole.
Richard B. Fisher, DDS | 1.9.11 @ 12:03AM
Interesting hypocricy that Paul Krugman and Daily Kos blame Gov. Palin when Daily Kos had the poor Congresswoman on their "target list" in 2008.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....511/541568
Eric Cartman| 1.9.11 @ 2:33AM
The little Marxist Scumbags took the page down.
Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 1.9.11 @ 8:56AM
The link is working now? From the Dailykos link:
"Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district. If we can field enough serious challengers, and if we repeat the Donna Edwards and Joe Lieberman stories a few more times, well then, our elected officials might have no choice but to be more responsive. Because if we show them that their AT&T lobbyist buddies can't save their jobs, they'll pay more attention to those who can."
Now directly above this paragraph is a list of names, Gabrielle Giffords name is one of the highlighted names.
So the DailyKos can put a bulls-eye on her name and it'll never be interpreted as a threat? Do as I say, not as I do!!
Nick| 1.9.11 @ 12:15AM
Oh no!
My dad made me play games like Risk, Stratego, Battleship, Rock'em Sock'em Robots, and even (gasp) Clue! We even played Hangman sometimes.
Why haven't I become a deranged spree shooter yet? I could blow any minute!
It's too bad you lefty kooks weren't made to play these games, along with Monopoly. You guys might be somewhat normal today.
Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 1.9.11 @ 9:14AM
Nick: I never made the connection before, between childhood games and irrational adult behavior. Oh My God Nick!! I was an avid Space Invaders player back in the day (on a Thursday, if I remember correctly?), and if you remember the premise of that game, it was to defend your territory from invading aliens, by shooting them dead, piece by piece. They were just coming to Earth to find a job, maybe to get free healthcare, or just go to school, and I shot them!!
Margie| 1.9.11 @ 3:41PM
Ah yes, Monopoly.
Don't you know that if you played that game it means you probably grew up to be a free market Capitalist and pro Big Business? You probably got from coveting those Hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place a desire to become maybe not only a home owner, but a business owner as well?
Yes the makers of that game probably sat content in their own tin foil hats just knowing that THEY'D be the ones to make out like bandits too.. on the backs of the innocent undoctrinated youth of America.
I mean we all know right, that free anything is just so.. selfish. Free to keep your own money and choose to spend it how you see fit.
Free to create your own business and become a prosperous individual and make even more money.
So much money that you want to just give some away to the favorite charity of your choice.
How awful!
I'm surprised it isn't banned yet.
nohype| 1.9.11 @ 12:37AM
By the way, those famed "gunsights" are actually position indicators. It is the character that your computer has at unicode 2316 if you have a modern computer. (Try it or google it.) Bullseye is unicode 25CE and it looks completely different.
Bill| 1.9.11 @ 12:37AM
I would like to add what the Sheriff said tonight was completely out of line, maybe the note the guy left had everything to do with bigotry. This was not the place or time to announce that he hates free speech. Anybody who says that "maybe we have free speech in this country" is not a friend of actual true free speech. This guy was insane, I don't think that vitriol by "certain people" was the cause of this attack, and he should be ashamed for inferring that it was.
Claire Solt| 1.9.11 @ 1:26AM
I lived through 1968 and it was brought to us by the same radicals that are active again. I have hoped that they would not start assassinating people, again. They made it clear, though, that blue dogs are dispensable.
Replay| 1.9.11 @ 1:29AM
ok . . . let's, please, get a grip.
People are dead: Children and adults who leave behind loved ones who are stunned by such a sudden loss in their lives.
Think about it. And think about how your lives could change in a blink of an eye.
The arguments about politics/politicians can be twisted anyway we'd like . . . but the beloved cannot be replaced, and cannot be brought back to life.
Hold your close ones close to you tonight and say a prayer for all.
Replay| 1.9.11 @ 6:47AM
Besides, I have no more arguments to reinforce the crappy and devious structure I painstakingly tried to build. Let me retreat to self righteousness (like I care for a dead kid and a jewish bitch) and faux display of religious practice. Forgive me, Lucifer.
LoudCitizen | 1.9.11 @ 3:42AM
"Please don't be mad at me!"
Only a liberal would speak like that.
Fred Truth| 1.9.11 @ 4:37AM
Liberals are not trying to "exploit" this shooting. They are simply trying to tone down the rhetoric. That is the ultimate goal. If conservatives want to keep thinking their rhetoric is not dangerous, things will keep escalating until another shooting like this happens, with a legitimate, 100 percent Tea Partier behind it. Everyone can see this coming.
Mimi| 1.9.11 @ 7:43AM
With every breath and word the " LIBS" ..ARE exploiting this tragedy,Fred.
What we have here is an irrational act committed by an irrational young man. Right now we need more truth and facts to assemble before making ANY judgements,
We need to pray for the victims and their families...They are all innocent... A HORRIBLE CRIME has been commited.
Nick| 1.9.11 @ 10:41AM
Mr. Truth,
The kook left is trying to cover-up all the nasty things they said about Mrs. Giffords by pinning this on the right/Tea Party.
They have a long history of this, like they did with Lee Harvey Oswald.
Tom Osterman| 1.9.11 @ 3:02PM
When liberals say they want to "'tone down the rhetoric," they mean they want conservatives to stop criticizing liberals; their own rhetoric stays at maximum venom. They know it and conservatives know it.
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 6:26AM
Quote "Liberals.../... are simply trying to tone down the rhetoric."
What a filthy piece of crap! Liberals are full of bullshit! You want to "simply tone down" something? Just choke on your lies and burn in hell, losers!
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 6:41AM
I have a question for those on the Left who visit this site and comment, particularly those who have made a link between this guy and the Tea Party or GOP.
Why is it not okay to use the acts of jihadists, suicide bombers, or other terrorists as representatives of Islam, but it's okay for you to use this nutjob as an example of a movement that represents millions of Americans, and is based on the founding principles of our country?
Well there are, you should understand, seldom more than a few short hours between the time that a tragic act occurs and when its perpetrator's political beliefs, if any, come to light. The Venomous Left needs to take advantage of every single minute to paint the perp as a right wing extremist, before the actual facts are known. After all, those hours are the most important in shaping the public's perceptions and recollections of the event.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to read The Communist Manifesto, which, as you know, tops every good right winger's list of favorite books.
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 7:07AM
Listen, you liberal turds who stink up this conservative site, here's an article from the appropriately named Yahoo! website, hardly a right wing sanctuary:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/201.....nman/print
Now leave us alone, we were not involved, your revolving door justice was, as you may read at the end of the article.
Dumb criminal libs!
william| 1.9.11 @ 7:15AM
Oh, so sorry for invading your numbskull sanctuary. However, on the other hand, people like you are ruining not only the USA, but the entire planet for all generations to come. Suck it up you pussy.
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 8:12AM
You don't seem ruined at all, except for your sorry excuse for a rotten brain and you should't let your webcam on: you have a tiny dick.
Bob| 1.9.11 @ 8:24AM
Pay no attention to William, he's a member of Numbskulls & Boneheads Society. And you're right: he has a tiny dick.
william| 1.9.11 @ 9:23AM
Ouch Bob, you and Jeremiah really know how to hurt a guy...my brain...er...I mean dick(that's what you all find most important, right?) is so gay now(just trying to please your oh so clever imagination)...
Anyway, the truth is, I humbly admit, the difference between American "liberals" and your lot is about as big as the upper or lower side of a halibut. Each is only one side of a single fish in a relatively infinite ocean of possibilities. I left the U.S. fifteen years ago and now live a life full of art, passion, freedom, and safety in a country where you Never need to worry about neanderthals of any stripe carrying guns, where sex is not bloody puritanical, where society is moving upwards not downwards, where people don't waste their time calling each other shallow names, where intelligent discourse is considered normal not elitist...and from where I have no interest in returning to the USA. In a country where innovation and creativity made it great, now dumb is now considered cool and education is considered troublesome...unless of course the education is, as with Bush, not big on things like actual science or facts. So don't worry, I actually won't be back to this forum...it was a one time event. There are actually people on this planet - newsflash - who can carry on an intelligent discussion void of name calling and vindictiveness, gravitating to and ever-seeking/offering intelligent points adhering to things like facts and (I love this part) who will as a society rise while Americans have pissing contests and talk about the size of dicks at the very same time they are sinking into a dysphoric slumber of cultural impotence. Two sides of a bloody f@#king fish in the ocean of life...that's the scene.
Rock on boys....and have fun while you're measuring...er...penises.
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 3:05PM
Let me guess, asshole... You're dead and you're in hell?
KDW| 1.9.11 @ 3:27PM
Do you actually have an intelligent point to
make? Something with actual logic?
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 3:48PM
KDWilliam, can you be more specific? You seem to have difficulties to write even simple words?
Mark Twang| 1.9.11 @ 7:36AM
He read Ayn Rand, too, a rabid atheist who was given to worshipping the almighty dollar, rape fantasies, and heroes who blow up buildings. What conclusions shall we draw from this?
Intelligent Design| 1.9.11 @ 7:55AM
Laughner may be just a patsy for some organization, or maybe not. It appears he had an accomplice who is on the run. Judge John Roll was killed, and I understand he has made some rulings in the case of an Arizona rancher who was sued by a group of illegal immigrants. Some of the rulings seem to favor the rancher, and some favor the immigrants.
The shooting is tragic, but unavoidable given that we have 310 million citizens plus some 15 million illegals living here. Laughner might have done the same thing in a nightclub, or sports arena. A terrorist might do the same thing at any moment.
Right now I am more concerned with Obama's plan to assign Internet ID's to all Americans. The USSR's KGB and Hitler's SS would love Obama's idea. It is an invasion of our privacy and freedom. It would intimidate everyone who uses the internet, inhibiting free speech. It would violate the First and Fourth Amendments.
Bob| 1.9.11 @ 7:58AM
To think that this 22 year old had the intelligence to differentiate the nuisances of liberal vs. conservative debate is assuming too much. What we can say with some degree of certainty is that the escalated speech of many conservatives and tea party people can be misinterpreted and used by those both less and more sophisticated. As Stephen Sondheim once wrote in a song, "Careful with what you say, children will listen." Unfortunately, people like Sarah and Michelle and others must realize that words matter and children are listening.
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 8:18AM
Bob, get a ride. If words (yours or those from the lib gay goons who trash this site) really did matter, we would be have been dead for decades. On the other hand, you turds are brain dead and it was self inflicted damage.
Mark Twang| 1.9.11 @ 8:35AM
Your rhetoric is the perfect example of the kind of thing you claim the teabaggers don't engage in.
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 9:04AM
Every time you use that Andy Cooper's slur that betrays your sexual proclivities and insults the finest hour of the Revolution, you lose the respect you never deserved anyway.
Now try eating some pussy for a change.
...and turn that webcam off: you have a tiny dick.
Mark Twang| 1.9.11 @ 9:27AM
Teabagging is not a gay thing. In fact, it's one of Christine O'Donnell's favorite activities, when she's not ripping off campaign contributions to pay for frozen pizza and Lipton's.
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 3:45PM
You got the IQ of a clam. A smart clam because you spelled Christine's name right.
Negro X| 1.9.11 @ 6:12PM
Bob,
"To think that this 22 year old had the intelligence to differentiate the nuisances of liberal vs. conservative debate is assuming too much."
So this is the reason they voted for obama, because they are idiots.
martin j smith| 1.9.11 @ 8:10AM
First off I think tea party Republicans should publicly repudiate ( or is refudiate ) the Left Media and any politician that uses the assassination in Arizona as political tool as Un American and disrespectful beyond the pale. The American People should condemn such columnists and politicians and ignore them.
Second, lets see who the heck this guy and if he had an alleged aid. Lets get all the facts. On the surface it seemed like a lone nut job to me. But if there is another involved then there may be two nuts jobs or more to it than that. But whatever it is, to blame the opposition for this is CRIMINAL
and should be attacked at the highest levels of government !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mitchell Owens| 1.9.11 @ 8:32AM
It's odd that you cherry-picked out one book from the dozen Loughner cited as favorites. After all, he also claimed to admire "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland." Perhaps you could write another speculative column, this one about the hookah-smoking caterpillar and how his behavior relates to this case?
Kingofthenet| 1.9.11 @ 10:08AM
You got 'baggers' trying to go to meetings with members of Congress with guns? What is the message there?
I guess you 'Baggers' got your 'Second Amendment' Remedy like Sharron Angle wanted, you happy now?
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 5:37PM
You reek of perverted liberal gay crap. You can't even write "tea partier"correctly! It would kill you!
Don't throw your disgusting sexual proclivities at us! Or teabag a bear, moron.
Kingofthenet| 1.9.11 @ 10:19AM
THIS video is made by the shooter, 'Let the Bodies hit the floor indeed':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L1lsLU-kUw
The ONLY people who like 'Drowning Pool' are Skinhead Ultra-National Military Types.
Nick| 1.9.11 @ 10:50AM
He also listed, as his favorite, a video where a guy burns the American flag.
We all know which side of the political spectrum likes to burn American flags, don't we King of the Morons?
Kingofthenet| 1.9.11 @ 10:54AM
Timothy McVeigh?
Nick| 1.9.11 @ 11:50AM
I didn't know Timothy McVeigh was a political spectrum.
You're really some kind of master debater, King of the Morons, ya' know that?
Jeremiah| 1.9.11 @ 3:42PM
The biggest regret from liberals is the loss of McVeigh, they would have loved to parole him and use him against Bush.
martin j smith| 1.9.11 @ 10:21AM
Two trolls for the price of one. Boy Obama and his gang must be using TARP money for a lot of trollers out there. How much they payun you ? YOU ARE THE CRIMINAL CLASS WHO HATES THIS COUNTRY. Let me remind those Krugmanites that when GWB was president talking about his assassination was all the rage with a movie no less. And I can say that even a relative of mine talked about wishing him killed by terrorists. YOU ON THE LEFT ARE THE GUILTY ONES. YOU ARE ONES WHO PERPETRATE UN AMERICAN BEHAVIOR. You tell us, people who are politically engaed to shut up well I will tell you; LOOK INTO THE MIRROR. YOU WILL SEE THE REAL ENEMY--YOU111111111111111
queenofcapitola| 1.9.11 @ 12:30PM
Joe Klien is on Cnn blaming Beck for this.. I didn't see Becks hand on the gun.. or see him yelling shoot!!
the left will use this to try and control MEDIA.. WELL, FOX NEWS .. the left, the SOCIALISTS IN DC are using the cloward and piven stratagie to destroy our c0untry.. and they are constantly lying to America..
JP| 1.9.11 @ 1:12PM
The language of this man's rants comes from the old anarchic Left circa 1890-1940. Of course it is void of any intellectual content - it's just, in Paul Johnson's words, a man bellowing giant curses at the world.
He would have been at home with groups like ELF, Kozkids, and Green Peace.
Laura| 1.9.11 @ 5:34PM
He also lists Ayn Rand's We the Living, an anti-communist book.
Jo| 1.9.11 @ 7:25PM
Only goes to show how desperate the left wing
radicals are. They lost control, now they've lost their minds.
GavriloPrincip| 1.9.11 @ 10:58PM
I almost never go on the internet to check out these types of discussions, but having just read these comments, I have to say that THIS is what all the pundits say should be toned down. So many of you claim to be logical, but about half these comments are corrupted by silly ad hominum epithets, which are only possible because you are hiding behind your computers. Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that Loughner was something like schizophrenic; it's also clear that blaming one party doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, my admiration for Gabby Giffords aside, the fact that hand-guns are that easily obtainable shows how extreme the gun lobby is.
Occam's Tool| 1.10.11 @ 11:34AM
Folks, I just thought I'd mention something---it is very difficult to involuntarily force medication on anyone in this country, no matter how insane, for more than 6 months to a year. Perhaps that's something we should change, especially as long acting depots do exist. I treat many dangerously delusional guys and get them stable on meds, just to have the courts screw it up.
My prayers go out to Congressman Giffords and the families of the others victimized by these attacks.
Sonja| 1.10.11 @ 6:21PM
This tragic event is the result of a young man who was obviously in a psychotic state. It had nothing to do with a book, with an ideology, or due to left or right wing leanings. This is not about politics. It is about mental health deteriorating in a young man. More emphasis at this time about mental health care being affordable for young people, understanding warning signs of mental health deterioration, and such should be the discussion now perhaps, but certainly not politics. Any politician politicizing this tragic event should be chastised and educated on mental illness!
AugusII| 1.16.11 @ 1:38PM
Who believes in it more? liberals (communists) or conservatives; "Communist Manifesto" http://spectator.org/blog/2011.....lent-rheto - Palin VS Pelosi to blame? all evidence points to put the blame on Last, her partners, cronies and boss.
Hate speech in US is done practically by left minded terrorists friends.
Lefties were waiting shooting ready to fire all their weapons against their enemy (US, freedom, democracy, western civilization, non sharia law, etc.)