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The Spectacle Blog
I write to commend Aaron’s posts and recent column on baseball. I agree that it is a near-crime that Lee Smith isn’t in the Hall of Fame, and I also would vote in Alan Trammell in a heartbeat. If those two don’t get in, there is no justice. For years I have wavered on most of the others on his list: Al Oliver really deserves serious consideration, as does Lou Whitaker. I had not considered Ted Simmons seriously before, but I could be persuaded. But all three probably are at best on the bubble: It’s hard to say it’s an absolute injustice if they don’t make it. When you think about it, letting them in opens a Pandora’s box of equally qualified players who, if all were allowed in, would dilute the specialness of the Hall. If Oliver is in with his .303 average and 219 homers, why not Will Clark, with a .303 average, 284 homers, and OBP and slugging percentages significantly higher than Oliver’s? If Simmons is in, what about Manny Sanguillen, whose lifetime batting average was higher and who performed very well in a host of post-season appearances while winning two World Series rings? A line must be drawn somewhere, and the merely “very very good” probably shouldn’t get in. Still, Aaron writes persuasively and entertainingly on these and other sports/cultural issues, and I love the discussions! That said, the biggest crime is that the recently deceased Ron Santo isn’t in the Hall. Third baseman are terribly under-represented, and he was head and shoulders one of the best for several generations.
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More Blog Posts by Quin Hillyer
http://spectator.org/blog/2011/01/05/re-alomar-and-blyleven
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Paul McGrath| 1.5.11 @ 6:50PM
Neither of them should have made it. Both had fine careers and were absolutely well-above -average players, but HOF? I guess it all depends on how you define it. They've certainly watered it down over the years.
But Jack Morris should be in there. Anybody who wins a ten inning shutout in the seventh game of a World Series ought to be a shoo-in for no other reason than that.
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.5.11 @ 7:33PM
Quin,
As you know, in my other life, I have coached more "kids" in baseball than anyone in the country.
I love the commercial where the NCAA athletes are ALL going pro...mostly other than in sports.
When Craig Biggio gets inducted I will cheer... A LOT!
When Art Howe gets inducted...I will faint.
These men played the game with class and excellence.
ejp| 1.5.11 @ 7:40PM
That Don Mattingly does not get greater consideration is for me a joke, especially when a contemporary of his, Kirby Puckett became the most undeserving first ballot HOFer in the history of the game with *identical* numbers.
matthew s harrison| 1.5.11 @ 7:54PM
MLB is dead to me until they induct Trammel, Whitacker, and Ron Santo. PERIOD!
R| 1.5.11 @ 8:40PM
I will forever remember Alomar as the guy who spit in an umpire's face. Don't know how many times it happened before or since; unforgiveable.
Le Cracquere| 1.6.11 @ 7:43AM
I never liked Alomar, but what people forget about that incident is that Hirshbeck's behavior was even less forgivable, part of a pattern of abusive and unanswerable umpiring that only ended with the (God be thanked) crippling of their union.
Alomar's spitting was petty and classless, of course: had I been in his place, I'd have punched Hirshbeck like a man. Of course, that would have kept A. out of Cooperstown for certain.
Nelson H.| 1.5.11 @ 11:05PM
NONE of the guys you fellows have mentioned (including you, Quin) merits entry. Not a one! Used to be 500 homers got you in; McGwire and Palmeiro changed that. Even good guy Dale Murphy (493) is a no-chancer. Blyleven was an above-average pitcher who lasted a long time, was never dominant and rated in the top ten in his league only a few years: that's not HOF material. As for picks like Mattingly, Trammel, Whitaker and Santo, what do they all have in common: they played for one team and thus are home town favorites with hard-core advocates. In my view, the guy who really ought to have gotten in (oddly enough a one-teamer too) is Jeff Bagwell. Quite a remarkable career considering he played in the pitcher-friendly Astrodome. And check out Larry Walker with the .313 BA and .565 career slugging percentage. OK, he played in Colorado; if you are going to downgrade his numbers for that, then you need to upgrade Bagwell, at which point he becomes a slam-dunk HOFer.
matthew s harrison| 1.6.11 @ 12:50PM
Nelson-you are on crack. Look at Trammel's numbers compared to any other SS in the game-start with ozzie smith-and you will see that he has numbers as good or better than any ss in the hall. Same with whitaker at 2b. As for Santo-he deserves to be there too on the numbers alone.
Home runs do not a hall of famer make. What game are you watching? Cause it isn't baseball!
Trammel has the following accolades(for instance):
6 All Star Games
MVP 1984 World Series
4 GG 3 SSs
6,172 career assists at SS(16th all time)
2,139 career games at SS (10th all time)
career fielding percentage .997 (22nd all time)
6 seasons above .300 batting average
Seriously Nelson-that is just one of my guys.....
Santo-
9 all star games
career slugging percentage .464
4 of 15 seasons above .300 ba
5 golden gloves
4 of 15 seasons with SP above 500
342 career homers
774 career extra base hits
I could go on-but the stats don't tell the story, when a guy has a career like these two. You need to look at what all these home run hitting studs you like to call baseball players-they weren't ball players-they were home run hitters. They may be flashy for the morons who live to watch the highlights on espn-but they aren't baseball players.
I can't tell you how many times I have watched the sosas and other great power hitters of the game drop cans of corn-and it doesn't make the highlight/lowlight reel-
This country is a country of "hero worshipers" who don't know what it means to be GOOD at something!
matthew s harrison| 1.6.11 @ 12:59PM
Furthermore-
Whitaker
6653 assists- 6th all time
.426 lifetime sp
2390 games played(80th all time)
1386 career runs(109th all time)
729 EBH
only grounded into 20 DPs in his whole career(20th all time)
55th all time bob's
only 189 errors (71st ALL TIME)
6th youngest man to play MLB
.984 fielding percentage(44th all time).
when you look at the important stats dude-you are way off base. Pun intended!
lord | 2.18.11 @ 8:15AM
Yas! agry!
ejp| 1.6.11 @ 12:10AM
The day Kirby Puckett (a guy who I might add was later revealed to have engaged in some sleazy off-field behavior) is taken out of the HOF for his numbers is the day I'll be convinced Mattingly shouldn't be in.
Margie| 1.6.11 @ 11:31AM
Qiun,
I want to know why it is that my post was removed in Ben Stein's thread yesterday paying homage to him, while the imposter Clint/Tim*'s post calling Ben Stein's wife a dog allowed to stand?
Why is it that you have liars and false accusers here that you protect like this, yet a conservative Christians posts are removed?
Your message to me is clear: I should exit and not return if I am going to call these types of filthy people what they are.
It is sad that AmSpec has turned into a haven for anti-semites and haters of people like Ben Stein and others who back Israel.
Sad and disgusting.
Now this lowlife is claiming that I want him arrested???
Oldefarte| 1.6.11 @ 11:47AM
Geez, Marge, chill [and take a deep breath]. The JUDGE-IN-CHIEF will deal with them at their respective endings upon this earth. As to Quin's baseball request, I'll confess my ignorance [not total] of the sport, due in part to my addition to football primarily [hey, ROOOOLLLLL TIDE and GEAUX SAINTS]. I do however [as it is somewhat related to this editorial] use/apply frequently the immortal words of Thomas Lasorda, former longtime manager of the L.A. Dodgers, [after being asked by a reporter what his personaly feelings were concerning the [baseball] Hall of Fame's rejection/exclusion of Pete Rose due to same's gambling problems, to which he/Lasorda proclaimed that RULES ARE RULES. These words have since stuck to me like glue due to the TRUTH of same!!!!!!!!!!!
Margie| 1.6.11 @ 12:02PM
Well OldeFarte I do seem to recall how outraged you were here when something of a much less magnitude happened to you and you went around in every single thread posting concerning it.
Why do you treat me in such a minimizing way now?
And also Ken was outraged once and posted that if they saw fit to remove his posts he told Tyrrell to cancel his subscription, and posted same.
My questio once again: Why is it that AmSpec PROTECTS the most vile and anti-semitic frauds who post here such as Tim# who now posts as Clint (among other names), and allows his disgusting posts to stand, yet removes mine and threatens ME for name calling?
Yet this Tim*/Cint proclaims goes around posting the virtues of the Pope.
Is that what gets you blessed around here?
I posted a heartfelt and loving post to Ben Stein in his thread yesterday. Tim*/Clint posted that his wife is a dog. My post gets removed. His stands.
Then he goes and posts how great the Pope is.
And others ignore his vileness.
Then he slanders me in another thread saying I want him arrested.
I doubt YOU would be able to countenance it, OldFarte.
Thanks a lot, bud.
Oldefarte| 1.6.11 @ 9:34PM
My point is to remind you that STICKS AND STONES CAN BREAK YOUR BONES BUT WORDS CAN NEVER HURT YOU. Even though some of these bloggers [through their ignorance and by acting STUPIDLY] can irritate most of us, the best solution is to take your best shot and walk away [and you win by doing thus]!!!!!
Derek Leaberry| 1.6.11 @ 12:06PM
Barry Larkin, Alan Trammell, Bagwell, Lee Smith and Tim Raines should have been voted in. Probably Larry Walker and Fred McGriff as well.
Paul Zummo| 1.6.11 @ 10:09PM
Everyone always brings up Morris' shutout in game 7 of the World Series, but they all conveniently forget his awful performance in the 1992 playoffs. Talk about selective memory.
Blyleven had to pitch for bad teams most of his career, and was a far more dominant pitcher than Morris. It wasn't even close.
lord | 2.18.11 @ 8:16AM
Yes, I fully agree