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The Problem with Debating DADT and ‘Gay Rights’

By John R. Guardiano on 12.22.10 @ 5:48PM

Years ago, the late great Irving Kristol told me and a group of young college students that his wife, the renowned historian Gertrude Himmelfarb, didn’t let him write about “gay rights” and homosexuality.

After wading into the all-too-emotional debate over “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” I can understand why: Because this is a difficult and complex issue that is all too easily caricatured and distorted, and by the extremes on both sides of the debate. This debate, though, can no longer be sidestepped or avoided.

My position is really a reasonable and moderate position. It acknowledges and accepts that there are gay men and women who want to serve in the military. However, it also recognizes that homosexuality is a problematical behavioral characteristic that shapes and affects human behavior, and often in profound and unsettling ways.

Yet we can see in Aaron Goldstein’s engagement on this issue — for which I again thank him — that, for many people, that simply isn’t enough. They demand a positive societal affirmation of homosexuality. Anything less, they cry, smacks of bigotry and “intolerance.”

The problem with this position, as I’ve tried to explain, is that homosexuality is not a simple, innocent or benign characteristic. In fact, truth be told, homosexuality is often a very unhealthy and destructive behavioral trait. And it is something that, for some people at least, can be altered or changed.

Are some people born lesbians and homosexuals? Undoubtedly, or so it would seem. But is everyone born genetically gay? Absolutely not. Psychology and societal pressures, it seems, have something to do with whether some people at least exhibit homosexual behavior.

Thus, the question is: how do we as a society show tolerance and acceptance for gay men and women without legitimizing a behavioral characteristic that we know is far from ideal? How do we include lesbians and homosexuals in our societal family without putting homosexuality on a par, legally and socially, with heterosexuality?

And how do we do this without infringing upon the religious liberty of millions of Americans? Because, as I’ve indicated here at the American Spectator, every major religious tradition in the world — Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, et al. — has moral proscriptions against homosexual behavior.

So that’s really what the debate over “gay rights,” “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” and “gay marriage” is all about: trying to be tolerant and inclusive without legitimizing a behavioral characteristic that we all know is problematical and morally objectionable.

To thread this needle, moderates and conservatives have tried to come up with reasonable compromise measures such as “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and “civil unions.”

But alas, I am afraid that this is not enough for the “gay rights” activists, who demand nothing less than the full societal legitimization of homosexuality. Socially and legally, they insist, homosexuality must be no different from heterosexuality.

Conservatives such as myself cannot accept this because we know that this is not true; and that such a formulation will prove disastrous for millions of people, families and children.

I won’t belabor my disagreement with Goldstein, except to briefly clarify the following points, which Goldstein has, in my view, seriously distorted:

First, I mentioned coed public high schools simply to reference the sexual and group dynamics between men and women which a coed military now has to deal with.

Students’ attitudes toward homosexuality are neither here nor there. Goldstein keeps trying to bring the issue back to how people “feel” about homosexuality; but “feelings” are, as I’ve explained repeatedly, completely irrelevant.

The point is that just as sexual dynamics create problems for public coed high schools, so, too, do they create problems for the U.S. military. And the introduction of open homosexuality within the ranks will only exacerbate this problem.

Second, I obviously am interested in “hard empirical evidence.” But again, because people’s “feelings” about homosexuality are irrelevant in the debate over “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” (and “gay rights” more generally), I am not interested in the sort of hard empirical evidence that Goldstein seems to think is decisive and conclusive.

The sort of evidence that I think is relevant involves how homosexuality affects human behavior and group dynamics, especially within small-scale military units. Goldstein ignores this evidence because it is inconvenient and unhelpful to his cause.

Third, I never said that because DADT has been repealed, “the sky is going to fall.” I agree, in fact, that the change will occur rather swiftly and without many problems or incidents — or at least without many problems or incidents that are ever known or seen by the public.

The cost, though, will be very real. It will manifest itself through the softening and undermining of the military’s warrior culture, which has made the Marines and the combat arms attractive to young men.

It will mean the denial of religious liberty for our military chaplains and military personnel. It will result in homosexual hazing and harassment incidents. And it will mean offending the moral and aesthetic sensibilities of military families where they live and raise children.

Fourth, Goldstein tries, again, to equate religiously-informed objections to homosexuality with racist attitudes and behavior. This because some racists segregationists apparently tried to justify segregation on Biblical grounds.

But there is an obvious difference between trying to pervert the Bible to justify racism — a position that no serious Biblical scholar supports — and citing Biblical injunctions against homosexuality.

Biblical support for racism is specious, unreal and unserious. Biblical and natural law injunctions against homosexuality, by contrast, are long-standing, well established and well accepted by religious scholars and historians.

Fifth (and finally), Goldstein issues a tautology when he says that if I genuinely believe some gays and lesbians are fine soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, then I should have no objections to permitting them to serve openly in our armed forces.

Again, this seems self-evident to Goldstein, but it’s not. And the reason is twofold:

First, he discounts and ignores completely how sexual dynamics can wreak havoc within small-scale military units. Indeed, Goldstein seems to think that soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are robotic, Vulcan-like creatures who are devoid of emotion and sexual passion.

Second, Goldstein discounts and ignores completely the importance of unit cohesion. Individual soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, after all, don’t fight and win on the battlefield; teams and units do. And it is the performance of those teams and units that matter, not the performance of individuals.

An individual lesbian and homosexual might be a perfectly fine soldier, sailor, airman and Marine; and yet through his or her sexual dalliances within the unit, undermine the unit’s morale and performance.

And, with that, I hope to end this particular debate. My hope is that we’ve managed to shed more light than heat on an issue, “gay rights” and homosexuality, that isn’t going away anytime soon. I wish Aaron and all of our readers a very Merry Christmas. Hoo-rah!

Alan Brooks| 12.22.10 @ 6:15PM

You make it sound as if gays might have sex in foxholes. It is more likely male hetero Servicemen will hit on Servicewomen than any problem will exist with gays in the Services.

Tim Williams| 12.22.10 @ 9:28PM

Why is that more likely? Yours is a common line of argument, but I'm afraid I don't understand it.

"Heterosexual men will (of course!) act on their sexual attractions, but only a bigot could possibly think that homosexual men will act like...men?"

Did I get that right?

Alan Brooks| 12.23.10 @ 12:15AM

I seldom think of having sex with women, when I do I think about being in the middle of some hot lesbo action between Janet Nepalitano, Andrea Mitchel and Cokie Roberts. Sometime though I don't enjoy fantasies about being beat by Mistress Michelle.

ECM| 12.23.10 @ 7:06AM

This is a ridiculous, weasel, reply: answer the man's very simple question or don't waste anyone's time with your anti-intellectual, idiotic identity politics game-playing.

(This line of thinking is along those of the 'magical negro' construct, wherein the minority is always assumed to be virtuous and above the petty behavior of the larger group which is, of course, absolutely ridiculous in all times and places.)

Les| 12.23.10 @ 9:24PM

The first lady? Wouldn't the Prez get jealous?

Doc| 12.24.10 @ 1:28AM

What a cowardly snivelling wretch you are, maybe we should allow Sharia law, you and your ilk would soon be put in your place, back in the closet where you belong.

mogriz| 12.23.10 @ 5:48PM

are you saying a homosexual bigot?

Les| 12.23.10 @ 9:21PM

Bigotry is not limited to heterosexuals--it can go both ways.

Les| 12.23.10 @ 9:17PM

The foxhole is not the issue. Barracks are. If hereosexuality and homosexuality are on a par with male and female differences, wouldn't that necessarily require separation by both gender and orientation?
Under repeal of DADT, are gays and lesbians afforded protected legal status?

Negro X| 12.22.10 @ 6:18PM

AB,
What would a coward like yourself know about the service?

Doc| 12.24.10 @ 1:26AM

Well said...

Edward| 12.22.10 @ 6:40PM

Listen to the nonsense he write here: "Biblical support for racism is specious, unreal and unserious. Biblical and natural law injunctions against homosexuality, by contrast, are long-standing, well established and well accepted by religious scholars and historians." The author's logic is just amazing.

Pasagshak| 12.22.10 @ 8:41PM

Edward, the nonsense is your name calling nonsensical response. The author's statement is true and irrefutable and therefore logical. You really need to learn how to comment or debate with reason.

ECM| 12.23.10 @ 7:07AM

Begging the question is not a reasonable rebuttal.

Edward| 12.22.10 @ 6:43PM

The bibles advice that slaves remain good slaves is anything but unreal and unserious. What's another word for "religious scholars who are against homosexuality"...a bigot!

John Guadriano | 12.22.10 @ 7:02PM

Edward,
You're conflating two distinct issues: slavery and racism. Racism and slavery were inextricably linked in American history. They are not inextricably linked in the Bible.

There are Biblical passages that both condemn and condone slavery, but not race-based slavery.

Regards,
John

Jeff | 12.22.10 @ 7:15PM

Try again. Lev 25:44-46 refers to the slavery of those of other nations (e.g. those of another races and ethncities.) They were linked. You weren't allowed to enslave Israelites, but you could enslave people from other countries, just as the US did with Africans.

tatosian| 12.22.10 @ 8:39PM

Where in the bible does it say Africans must be enslaved because they were Africans?
Did the Jews even war with any African nations? Your inclusion of "ethnicity" is your interpretation isn't it?
You want a religion that specifically targeted Africans as a lesser race and therefore perfect for enslavement, look to islam. A religion you punks dare not mess with.
And why is that exactly?
Is it because homosexuals are executed for their sexuality, or because the rigid separation of the sexes in islam affords homosexuals more opportunities to practice their "lifestyle" on oversexed males?
By the way, I hear there are openings in Afghanistan for dancing boys.
Interested?

tatosian| 12.22.10 @ 9:07PM

What's another word for a murderer slaughtering a middle aged Christian woman?
...A homosexual!
"Woman Murdered After Witnessing to Homosexual; TEEN STABS DEVOUT CATHOLIC TO DEATH"
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....3522/posts

Jeff | 12.22.10 @ 7:05PM

If you like "hard empirical evidence," then would you care to provide some for your statements about homosexuality being a destructive lifestyle? By the way, a higher suicide rate, we seen this year, comes from an atmosphere of hate, so please do not try to use circular logic. Causing lgbt folks to commit suicide by creating a world of hate cannot then be counted as a reason to create more hate.

The Bible has been used repeatedly to beat down minority groups. Give me a group, and I can quote verses used by others to deny them rights: Jews, blacks, women, inter-racial marriage, gays.

tatosian| 12.22.10 @ 9:01PM

Soooo, the aids epidemic, spread by homosexuals in the 80's wasn't the result of destructive behavior?
Of course that was then wasn't it. You've learned you lesson right?
But aren't there homosexual bars where entire sections of the bar are dedicated to anonymous sexual encounters? Sounds sorta wanton to me, but I'm not a homosexual.
Would that homosexual senator or congressman coming on to that undercover cop in a bathroom stall indicate a certain destructive tendency?
And homosexuals troll public bathrooms, parks and such looking for sex right? Um, George Michael?
A higher suicide rate comes from hate, not self loathing, self hate, feelings of inferiority and a distinct inability to process information?
Or is it just the hatred you insist is directed at the poor homosexuals by religious folks you're referring to?
Don't recall any religious types snuffing any homosexuals lately. Except the muslims.
Poor babies.

David in Houston| 12.26.10 @ 4:11PM

I can just as easily demonize heterosexuals. Do you honestly believe that straight people in the 80s weren't sleeping around, just as much as gay people? You talk about gay bars where people get together for anonymous sex. You don't think the same thing happens at straight bars? Of course it does. Just because the guy takes the random girl back to his place doesn't make it any less sleazy. How about Mardi Gras? Women pull down their tops, so men will throw beads at them. Do the people at Mardi Gras represent EVERY straight person in America? What about the legal whore-houses in Nevada? Those are solely for heterosexual men. I think that's pretty disgusting. But (unlike you) I don't make the false claim that every straight guy behaves like that.

As for the Congressman that was caught in the airport stall. He still claims that he's straight. So he's your problem, not the gay community's; and if the public stopped demonizing gay people then perhaps the Congressman wouldn't have grown up to be a self-loathing gay man that has to find his sexual release with strangers in a bathroom.

You mention that you're unaware of any religious people snuffing out homosexuals. Here's a clue: The next time you read an article about someone being gay-bashed, there is a 100% probability that the person that did the bashing was VERY religious. No doubt about it. And when kids are taught in church that gays choose that "lifestyle", and that they are evil immoral sinners and abominations, is it any surprise that they use that knowledge to give themselves permission to taunt, bully and beat-up kids in school? So who exactly are the evil ones in that scenario?

Robert R| 12.22.10 @ 11:08PM

Anyone with the least bit of familiarity with the acts gays perform upon one another is aware of the health hazards. Non participants are rightly revolted.

Ted| 12.22.10 @ 11:21PM

You can check out the CDC website. Number one group most likely to become HIV infected? Men who have sex with other men. That would probably be perceived by most reasonable people as a destructive consequence.

Dropping By| 12.23.10 @ 12:58AM

More "hard empirical evidence" that homosexuality is a destructive lifestyle is the respective life expectancies of (say) straight American men and gay American men. Straight men have a much longer life expectancy.

David in Houston| 12.26.10 @ 7:15PM

If you're referring to the study that says that gay men only live until their 40's. That is a 100% falsehood. That study was made decades ago, during the AIDS epidemic. It only looked at subset of gay men that had AIDS. Back then, drugs didn't exist that could prolong the life of an AIDS patient. So obviously those men died at a young age. The study has no bearing on gay men in 2010. Most gay men do not have HIV or AIDS; and those that do can live for decades because of new drug treatments.

Mark Gillogly| 12.22.10 @ 8:00PM

John:
You should back up your arguments with examples that you know from gay friends and gay family members. Don't have any? Oh, well, maybe...we aren't three dimensional humans in the Guardiano world. After reading your article, I "feel" like a concept that can be explained away. Thanks.

K.| 12.22.10 @ 8:04PM

What I'm essentially hearing here is an assumption that LGBT folks are not capable of being professionals--that because they have feelings, they will act on them, and therefore disturb the small unit they are in.

I'm also hearing an assumption that gays are effeminate, and will therefore (as you put it) soften and undermine the warrior culture in our military.

Combined with all of this talk about destructive behaviors and less than ideal lifestyles, your blog post makes me wonder if you have ever known a gay person on a personal level.

Whether you can admit this to yourself or not, LGBT people are the same as everyone else. Our sexuality does not define our life, our abilities, or our personalities. It is only one (small) part. I know that the media routinely trots out the "flaming homo" images and tales of taboo sexual behavior, but I can assure you that once we as a society move beyond stereotyping the LGBT community, the air will come rushing out of all this and people will be left wondering what the fuss was all about; they'll be staring at a normal person who happens to identify as LGBT. There is nothing special about gay people, no matter how much "difference" you attempt to put into the equation.

It baffles me that you cite "social pressures" as a force for homosexuality. I ask you, what person in their right mind wants to identify as part of a minority group that has comparatively few rights? Why would any logical person put themselves in harm's way by *choosing* homosexuality? Your rhetoric is simply another extension of the baseline assumption that gays are psychologically unhealthy, which is false. I'm sure you're aware that homosexuality was officially de-pathologized quite a while ago. "Well-adjusted" and "gay"may seem mutually exclusive to you, and gay culture seems offensive to you. I hope that one day you have the opportunity to really get to know a well-adjusted gay person, and through them, better understand gay culture and the reasons why repealing DADT is important. You can try to discount/discredit the feelings and experiences of other people all you like, but they are not going away and are vital to this issue. Your own feelings drive your rationalization; you cannot pretend that this is not so and then turn around to criticize the gay rights movement for their feelings.

tatosian| 12.22.10 @ 9:48PM

"Our sexuality does not define our life, our abilities, or our personalities. It is only one (small) part."
Homosexuals don't define themselves as homosexuals and don't proclaim themselves an oppressed minority because of their homosexuality?
Are you kidding?
"You can try to discount/discredit the feelings and experiences of other people all you like, but they are not going away and are vital to this issue."
That's pretty much what homosexuals do isn't it?
Discount and discredit any who are opposed to them.
Stop the whining.

Ted| 12.23.10 @ 12:05AM

"Our sexuality does not define our life, our abilities, or our personalities."

Then why the need to repeal DADT? That was one of the stated reasons for repeal, right? That it forced gays to lie about something that was very important to them, indeed to their humanity?

You want it both ways: what I do in my bedroom is no one else's business and at the same time I want everyone to know about what I do in the bedroom.

David in Houston| 12.26.10 @ 7:07PM

Does YOUR sexuality define who you are, just because you're straight? How would that differ if you happen to be gay? What you do in the bedroom is a small part of who you are. That was the point, K. was making.

"You want it both ways: what I do in my bedroom is no one else's business and at the same time I want everyone to know about what I do in the bedroom."

Not true at all. A straight soldier can talk openly about their girlfriend or wife with other soldiers. About how much they miss their family back home. They can put photos of them in their lockers. They can write them letters and emails telling them how much they love them. They can talk to them on the phone. They could also talk about the sexy lady they saw on that TV show last night. A gay soldier can't do any of those things, in regards to their significant other back home. Not only that, but they're also legally forced to pretend that they're straight, otherwise they will be 'found out' and fired. NONE of those things has anything to do with the bedroom.

Oldefarte| 12.22.10 @ 8:43PM

You can attempt to rationalize the arguments from here to eternity, but the sole reason why homosexuals wish/want this repeal is SELFISHNESS! They don't care that it will destroy the military, just as they don't care that their behavour destroyed the Catholic Church. Their demands are purely selfish. There is no reason why any of them would want to join the military in the first place, since same represents manliness/masculinity when homosexuality is based upon feminine characteristics. They simply want to do it for their own GOTCHA reasons and to demonstrate to the world their conquest of another segment of life. Why do they insist upon nakedly parading down the street against the wishes of moral people's values? They just want to place themselves and their abhorant behavour upon a pedistal and to flaunt their sickening lifestyle to the disgust of everyone else!!!!!

Tim*| 12.22.10 @ 9:19PM

"52 percent of gay soldiers experienced some form of sexual harassment during their Israeli military service. The survey, which was carried out by a homosexual youth organization among homosexual and lesbian soldiers, found that most of the harassment was verbal. 39 percent of respondents said that their officers were also involved in the sexual harassment, and that only 20% of officers condemned such behavior. "The survey's findings show that commanders are not aware of the subject and do not know how to ensure a secure environment for homo-lesbian soldiers who serve under their command," said Guy Shilo, the author of the survey."

Ted| 12.22.10 @ 11:24PM

Looks like they need some Consideration of Others (COO) training, updated for homosexuality. Send them over to the U.S. We are about to get a whole bunch of it.

Anthony| 12.22.10 @ 9:32PM

Mr. Guadriano falls for an unprovable fiction that certain individuals are "born gay", this is nothing less than ridiculous. If a person is born with a genetic disposition to homosexuality, what about sado-masochists? Necropheliacs? Pedophiles? Homosexuality is a perversion, plain and simple. The liberal elites can have their repeal but over the long term, the Christian males who have long fought for and defended the USA will choose different career paths. Remember "white flight" from the cities when forced integration began? Now we will have "Christian flight" from the military.

DRed| 12.22.10 @ 9:57PM

And where will they flee to? there are gay people everywhere.

Alessandra | 12.24.10 @ 5:07AM

If they weren't so psychologically snotty, they would start asking questions about where their need to sexualize people with the same sex comes from. They would investigate their own dysfunctional psychological and political development for answers, in order to find solutions. It's not any different than anyone with a pedophile or zoophile orientation should do.

Tim| 12.22.10 @ 10:06PM

John John John...you certainly write often about gays...I think YOU think about gay sex more often than gays do. here is why your arguments (and you call yourself reasonable and moderate?) are wrong
You state right away that gay behavior is problematical behavior? According to every medical expert worth their weight in salt...being gay is as normal as being straight..until you realize that simple FACT, you will never have a legitimate argument that is not based in bias..or "bigotry" as you call it.
1.Homosexuality is not a destructive trait..how can someones sexuality be a destructive trait..its what you DO with it that maybe destructive. (like straights and gays spreading stds etc).
2. what the hell do you mean that the gay lifestyle is not ideal..if society gets its head out of its ass..and straights treat gays as productive memebers of society..and not 2nd class citizens..gays will have an ideal life, they can have families, careers and loving relationships..just like you straights!
But you really always hide the true problem...that YOUR religious liberty is more important than MY individual liberty and freedom in this country..your religion is already a protected class..but guess what..there are many religions..and there are those that fully embrace gays...and guess what..there are even those people that dont believe in a creator...so tell me what you think YOUR GOD..or 1 line that was written in the bible over 2,000 years ago...can wipe out my rights, liberty and freedom in 2010?
Unitarians dont believe in treating gays differently..neither do some lutherans, methodists etc..
John..your always going to lose the religion debate..go and worship who you want...but the moment YOUR beliefs are shoved down MY throat..effecting where I can work, whom I can get married to, what way I can serve my coutry..its then that MY liberties are protected from YOUR religious beliefs.

Ted| 12.22.10 @ 11:31PM

Well, that's the crux of the problem, isn't it? There was always going to be a collision between religious freedom and other's notions of what their rights are. But why should John have to lose the religion debate? Aren't his beliefs just as valid as yours? Or is this an updated version of Animal Farm, where everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.

By the way, DADT actually allowed homosexuals to serve. So they couldn't serve openly? Big deal. In the service we all have to not be open about a lot of personal things. But your comments prove the point: this was never about the right to serve. This was/is about a social agenda that has nothing to do with military effectiveness or military readiness at all.

As for the medical experts, the opinion is still greatly divided.

Dropping By| 12.23.10 @ 1:08AM

One way the gay lifestyle is not ideal is that it produces no children. If you believe in organic evolution, as I do, then nearly all progress of cell development, over eons of time, have come through sexual reproduction. We became human, and the exquisite human brain (for example) developed as a result of male and females mating and reproducing. Gay copulation does nothing to further and expand and extend this progress, and is therefore inferior to straight copulation -- which results in reproduction, and which is therefore aimed at a hopeful and better future.

If gays choose not to participate in reproductive activity, that's certainly their prerogative. But when it comes to organic evolution, and progress of the human race, their opting out is clearly inferior to heterosexual mating. The vast straight majority is being hectored into recognizing gay sexuality as equally valid and/or honorable and/or good, but such recognition would be absurd from a biologically standpoint.

lea| 12.25.10 @ 12:17AM

Sorry but if your argument against homos is that no kids are produced and they no longer contribute to the futherment of the species you should really took a good long look at what normally occurs in the natural world.
You'll find that marriage would be an abomination as it looks up the partners to breed withselves, thus producing fewer offsprings and less genetic variations. If you really valued the genetic progress of our race you would call for the abolishment of marriage and ask every single man you know to be total whores and try to impregnant as many women as the can.

Tim| 12.22.10 @ 10:10PM

How can you state that homosexuality is not a genetic trait? New research points to this being the cause. Pedophelia is largely the domain of heterosexuals and priests and is mainly a power trip, not sexual fantasy. The comment regarding Christian flight from the military just might be the best thing to happen from dadt, and one can only encourage them to resign or not enlist. The military would be stronger, the country safer and the world in general a better place.

Ted| 12.22.10 @ 11:27PM

Be careful what you wish for... If those folks leave, you aren't going to have enough people in the military. Besides, your argument is nothing more than an updated version of "if you don't like DADT, then leave the service." Gays didn't want to, why should anyone else.

Tim*| 12.22.10 @ 11:51PM

Another Fruit gettin' in a cheap shot at the Catholic Church, which opposes the Gay Gender Confused Agenda.
According to Charol Shakeshaft, the researcher of a little-remembered 2004 study prepared for the U.S. Department of Education, "the physical sexual abuse of students in ( public ) schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

tatosian| 12.22.10 @ 11:54PM

Well, at this time there is no empirical evidence that homosexuality is a result of genetics.
If it were so proven, would that make it all right? Does a genetic predilection for say, violence make violent behavior a civil right for those so genetically disposed?
How about alcohol or drug dependency?
Pedophilia is largely committed by heterosexuals, but why wouldn't it be. There are far more heteros than homosexuals. There are more hetero car thieves than homosexual car thieves too. Big deal. It would be interesting to find out what percentage of child crimes homosexuals commit as compared to heterosexuals.
"The military would be stronger, the country safer and the world in general a better place."
Hilarious.

Quartermaster| 12.23.10 @ 11:38AM

Every time someone announces they have found teh "Queer Gene" it quietly goes away when the idea/discovery is debunked by science. Queer genetics is like AGW, a hoax.

When Christians abandon the military it will not be stronger, it will be far weaker. The Dutch military's performance in Bosnia was put down to the acceptance of queers by the former chief of staff of their Army. Anyone that expects the rise of such immorality will lead to a stronger anything is seriously deluded and all history stands against them.

lea| 12.24.10 @ 11:14PM

Haha a religious righty using science to debunk theories! What the hell is your opinion of god then, certainy he must be a giant monkey in a suit made of bananas.
Also why the hell would the military get weaker, their training methods aren't going to change, anyone who doesn't live up gets kicked out. Reports indicate up 93% of personnel in the military aren't to fussed with the repeal, personally I suggest we leave the other 7% to become meatshields so that they can't procreate and infect a new generation of kids with their venom.

Alessandra | 12.24.10 @ 5:12AM

Proportionally speaking, it is a complete lie to say that heterosexuals commit more abuse than homosexuals (or bisexuals). Studies vary. The same for domestic violence. Rates for homosexual men are about 25% experience violent relationships. Women with a homosexual problem (whether bisexual or homosexual) also engage in a lot of perverted sexual harassment towards other women (including heterosexual), as well as domestic violence.

Homosexuals just lie and lie and lie about all their problems.

Tom| 12.22.10 @ 10:15PM

sorry JOHN...being treated as "less than" is never going to satisfy gays..and why should it...your so arrogant..why dont YOU take a few crumbs in this short life we have and be satisfied...DADT was nothing but a cruel, unjust and frankly dangerous law. Id rather have a gay soldier NOT thinking about who is going to find out about him..and him getting kicked out of the military..id rather have him focused on the duty at hand...saving my butt, then worrying about someone telling a superior he is gay.

We are not demanding that straights accept us socially..that is happening all by itself..and more you conservatives (Laura Bush, Dick Cheney), that love gays are understanding..how can they discriminate against their best friend, co worker, son or daughter. They cant.

Civil unions is not a compromise...you see..I want everything YOU have...
I want to marry the love of my life and state in front of my God, who I choose to love as an adult.
I want to work hard at my job and not get fired because of who I love..and I want to serve my country..no matter who I love...you dont seem to believe in true equality..you seem to be very comfortable with throwing us scrapes and expecting us to be happy..would you be happy with the scrapes (DADT, Civil Unions Etc)..if someone threw them your way...I dont think so

Ted| 12.22.10 @ 11:35PM

There was little cruel in DADT. The vast majority of discharges were because the individual in question made their sexuality an issue, per the most recent DOD reporting. And in my experience as an infantry officer, that was the case. Sexuality wasn't an issue.

Ted| 12.23.10 @ 12:21AM

orrection: Sexuality wasn't an issue unless the individual made it an issue, in my experience.

I didn't do witch hunts and I didn't do 3rd party reporting crap (I always worried I'd have a sex tape on my desk... It would have been pretty hard to explain to higher how I could have disregarded that one... ).

Truth be known, under DADT, it gave everyone enough compromise room to enable gays who really wanted to serve to do so.

lea | 12.24.10 @ 11:19PM

Bullshit, why don't we even up the playing field then, all the straight military personnel are longer allowed to talk about thier wives, girlfriends, how hot a woman looks, their hopes of starting a family or any other heterosexual discourse and lets see how the repression affects them.

YAR2011| 12.23.10 @ 5:43AM

Tom, more is at stake in legitimizing homosexuality that the discomifture you experience absent its legitimization. Equality is not an absolute value. Our society rightly discriminates against many groups of people and necessarily so. Equality meansequal protection under the law and ideally equal opportunity, the latter always a quest. This latter doesn't apply to many and for good reasons. I question your use of theword"love." While humans may love, in the true sense of that word, anyone, and can only love truly if they love everyone, what passes for love in our society is dependency, emotionality, sentimentality, and other less healthy intents and behaviors. Homosexual behavior does not andcan not express love in the true sense of that word. The legitimization of homosexuality and (May Godhelp us!) bi-sexuality mutate the meaning of love and redefine what it means to be human.

lea| 12.24.10 @ 11:24PM

And what is the meaning of being human?
And while your at it what is the meaning of life?

This is why christians are among the most hated religious groups in the world, always telling others what they should conform to and what they feel without realising that they are the largest source of wars and ostracism the world has known.

Tim| 12.22.10 @ 10:16PM

The last two, er three Tims are not the same. Just a coinky-dink that both were moved to comment on an absurdly biased essay at the same time.

Melissa| 12.22.10 @ 10:32PM

John-
Why haven't the 30 countries that do have gays openly serviing (britian, Isreal) have NO problems with unit cohesion, combat readiness etc? you only think America will somehow have this issue. The problem is..you cant deny someones rigthts BEFORE they prove you wrong...you would have to state there are problems AFTER the law is changed..so sit back...and see

I certainly see tail hook , and Timothy McVeigh as Straight problems..god forbid 1 gay give the military a problem..you will jump on that like white on rice!

Ted| 12.22.10 @ 11:40PM

Well, if you actually start talking to folks away from their official minders, you will find out that they had LOTS of problems implementing their homosexual policies and that they continue to have LOTS of problems with it. Just like the US military, they can get the PR machine to provide "proof" that everything is just a-ok. Talk to folks though, and you get a different picture.

As for denying rights, DADT allowed gays to serve. It just helped lessen the whole sexual issue. And truth be known, most of my gay buddies aren't going to say anything anyhow. They realize that human sexuality can be an explosive, problematic thing. All you have to do is look at gender integrated units to see that, and that is sex that is accepted by most everyone.

My gay buddies got used by politicians to make a political payoff, pure and simple. They couldn't care less about the rights of a Joe. And my friends recognize that fact.

krtc| 12.22.10 @ 10:42PM

after whats going on in the churches will all of the rape, I dont really see priest, Chaplans etc having any moral authority over anyone else...clean up your own house before you throw stones at another!!!

Alessandra | 12.24.10 @ 5:15AM

Maybe you ought to remember that 80% of the Catholic Church abuse cases in the US related to homosexual priests sexually abusing male teenagers.
Coming to a military unit near you! And if you dare complain, you will be called homophobic by the homosexual pink mafia...

Joe| 12.22.10 @ 10:43PM

Crazy..your table for one is now ready.....

meghan| 12.22.10 @ 10:48PM

John..sorry but America is passing you by...
most republicans, democrates etc do believe gays should be a protected minority. We believe in equality, we believe that if you are over 18 and chose to love someone, thats your business..not the churches, not the military and not the governments..Conservatives talk the talk but wont walk the walk...You want less government...well then get out of our lives!

Ted | 12.22.10 @ 11:45PM

If America is passing his position by, why have 30 states passed legislation acknowledging that marriage is between a man and a woman? And most of America doesn't believe gays should be a protected minority, or they already would be right now. As for the military, there's a whole bunch of things that are the military's business that would make a typical civilian cringe. Bounced a check? I can take your pay and your rank. Commit adultery? Oooohhhhh..... I can take your rank, take your pay, and boot you out. Live in off post housing? I can come by and do a health and welfare inspection in your home, that you own, off of the military installation. Didn't show up to work on time? Yeah, I can take your pay and your rank for that as well. The list is pretty long. That's the problem with most civilians, they don't understand that your life is not totally your own when you sign on the line.

lea| 12.24.10 @ 11:29PM

...and what was americas position 20 years ago let alone 50? The USA is progression, slowly (due to all the red necks) but it is moving. One day people like john will be the minority and will be shunned and treated like they now treat members of the KKK and neo-nazis.

tim| 12.22.10 @ 10:54PM

Tatosian-
straights have been spreading STDs for years before AIDS was even heard of...or have you never heard of syphillis, gonnorhea etc?? They we very deadly in their day.,

and its a joke stating that because 1 gay male murdered a woman...because he was an evil homosexual..try opening a book of serial killers..yeah..maybe 3 out of the thousands upon thousands were gay...well..lets see..I have a paper right beside me..hmmm....domestic violence,...yeah...several rapes....man murders wife...wife kills her own kid....
whats your fing point?

Ted| 12.22.10 @ 11:53PM

I grant you that heteros spread STDs too. At the same time, homosexuals are far more likely to contract and spread HIV and other STDs due to the basic nature of homosexual sex. That info is from the CDC, as is the stat that about 60% of recent syphilis cases were found in homosexual men.

You may not believe it, but I am not trying to be a smart aleck. There were good reasons for DADT, good reasons for a total ban, and good reasons to repeal DADT and a total ban. But it never got debated. The military, both gay and straight, lost in this. We got treated like a political football. People spent more time worrying about their damn tax cuts and the spending bill than they did concerning themselves with a critical issue to our military.

The Congress had two years to study this (and that study they put out was nothing more than window dressing and political cover for politicians) and really debate it before the American people and show us in the military that we were worth their time and their best effort - regardless of whether they repealed DADT or kept in in place.

And they didn't. Hey, we are gays and straights, and to them we aren't important enough. We just do the fighting, the bleeding, and the dying.

If that's the best they can give us, we ought to ALL quit. Gay and straight. They can find someone else to deal with AQ. Maybe the illegals will be interested.

tatosian| 12.23.10 @ 2:29AM

You asked for an example of risky homosexual behavior. I gave you an example.
Gutierrez was in response to your religious scholars are bigots drivel.

tim| 12.22.10 @ 10:58PM

tatosian.your describing exactly WHY society is changing..yes..because of religious zealots, gay bashers, gays had to "troll parks"..since they were not welcome anywhere..luckily..now there are online chats, bars, sporting events, etc...and younger gays are coming out..so they dont NEED to hide in parks...just thank god you were never treated like a subhuman or forced into hiding who you were...but we are on the path for all of us to be as lucky as you were!

tatosian| 12.23.10 @ 2:39AM

Yeah that's it. We forced you to hang out in public bathrooms looking for Mr. Right.

Yar2011| 12.23.10 @ 5:59AM

"Had to 'troll parks'?" How about compulsive promiscuity as the reason for trolling parks etc.?
The openness toward homosexuality is not going to end the trolling. Lust is avaricious.

lea| 12.24.10 @ 11:37PM

Please, as if promiscuity is a homo trait alone, most straight men are just as bad, if only if women had the same sex drives.

Tim2| 12.22.10 @ 11:12PM

for those of you worried about the "radical homosexual agenda" YOU call it that..I call it trying to have a life...I say..2 down to to go
Down:
DADT repeal
Gay hate crime protection

To Go
ENDA (end discrimination regarding employment)
Gay Marriage

we are 50% done John...once we obtain the other 50% of our "to do gay agenda" list..what will you write about??

Ted| 12.22.10 @ 11:57PM

DADT repeal is a Pyrrhic victory... You can get all the victories you want, but that won't make people respect you or give you acceptance. And I don't understand why you would need all of that to have a life.

You have a life regardless of whether you will all of that or none of it. You sound like one of those types of people who want to be rich at any cost, and pursue it, only to find out once you "get it all" that it doesn't mean what you wanted it to mean.

Tim*| 12.23.10 @ 12:20AM

The Sexually Confused Agenda:
1. NAMBLA
2.Marrying Your Doggie.
3. Manage de trois with Pouchie & Porky The Pot Bellied Pig.
4. Polygamy with The Farm Animals.

Brian| 12.22.10 @ 11:17PM

I dont think Ive read an article so filled with arrogance and self importance in a long long time. John..you obviously think very highly of religous people and well and straight people..and very lowly of gays...you definitely think you are superior simply because of your sexual orientation, but we live in America..not Iraq...so stop being such a Nazi..and learn to deal with the fact that people are different. If all Americans just learned to treat ALL as equals...every hard working, tax paying, patriotic American deserves full rights....if you dont believe that..then there is something blatantly discriminatory about your religion.

Ted| 12.23.10 @ 12:01AM

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with what homosexual activists want is always derided as a Nazi or homophobe? Well, because that was a key part of After the Ball, now wasn't it? It's a handy dandy little Communist - Nazi propaganda playbook. It's been rather effective.

But the jig may be up.

Kyle| 12.22.10 @ 11:22PM

John..enjoy being in the majority for as long as your can..because..im sure you do your homework...an overwhelming majority of Americans are for gay equal rights...do you can spew all of the Evilgelical BS that you want, your helping the gay cause...more and more Americans see yours as religious zealots..and want to run as far away from you as possible...because your views on many subjects are dangerous.

Yar2011| 12.23.10 @ 6:06AM

A majority of Americans are a benighted ignorant mass of consummers. In time, in time there will be an end to this perversion of the ideals of equality and rights and America will rightly discriminate against the legitimization of every perversion that seeks so-called equality. If this isn't done by Americans then itwill be done by whatever society succeeds this Republic.

lea| 12.24.10 @ 11:43PM

The time when equality no longer becomes an issue is when america is in a position to say it provides equality to races, genders, cultures, religions, orientations (note I didn't say ages).

Then we can turn our focus and rightly discriminate against bigots and hatemongers. I suggest sterilisation once that occurs ^^

Tim3| 12.22.10 @ 11:26PM

John seems to think you can legislate morality...and we always know thats a losing battle..but keep up the good fight John...we enjoy watching your side lose in court battle after court battle..oh..except in Iowa...im sure you think its fine that 3 supreme court judges get fired because they actually read the articles of the constitution...too many most Iowans never read it. maybe they would learn that gays do have equal protection ...to due process and freedom of speech..and 14 times it states that everyone is entitled to marriage....No..not married 14 times..or not cheating on their wifes 14 times a la tiger woods (straight dude...yeah..they are sooo great at marriage) laugh.

Jeffrey| 12.23.10 @ 12:03AM

Once you have a close gay friend or relative who you love, respect and value it is impossible to think they are not worthy of having every freedom we all have and take for granted as Americans. If you have a gay friend and you still feel that he/she is not worthy of all that you have, then you are not truly his/her friend. Instead, I'd say you are a cold hearted person who lives in a very dark, small world.

Ted| 12.23.10 @ 12:14AM

That's part of the problem. You want this to be about the individual, what's best for the individual, and it's not. It's about the team and what's best for the unit. The same thinking that might make a commander sacrifice an entire 180 man company to save the other 850 guys in a battalion.

Cold hearted? Maybe. I had to make decisions in the military that hurt people I cared about. That's the hardest thing to explain to most civilians. I get paid as a leader to lead and solve problems. And sometime those solutions end up getting people hurt. Does that make me cold hearted? Maybe. But on the other hand, if I don't do my job, that casualty list will likely be a lot longer.

The most important thing you should be concerned with giving someone you care about is your complete honesty. And sometimes honesty hurts.

Yar2011| 12.23.10 @ 6:13AM

Nonsense. I am same sex attracted (ssa) and have friends who are and none of us support the proposition that homosexuaity should be legitimized and we are not cold hearted people living in a very dark, small world, rather we are people of light, by the Grace of God, who in spite of suffering, look to what is right and good. Of course you will call us "self-hating gays" but that wil be a discount of our testimony and merely your defensive reaction.

Norman| 12.23.10 @ 3:40PM

It is sad that you were brainwashed by religion into thinking being gay is less than or unequal to being straight
The bible isnt God-its is factually (indisputable) written by man and edited by man, etc
You are self hating-the very definition of that term is one who thinks he is less than-
Homosexuals are legitimate-society is growing in acceptance and homosexual behaviors is seen in over 1500 species of animals-we dont need approval form man-we are approved
Thats why we go thru teh courts-we will gain every right through the law]
God favors us-we are His chosen people-clearly-and His will is full equality for all
You can accept second teir status if you want (sad), but the rest of us want full rights
And we will get them

yar2011| 12.23.10 @ 7:31PM

bolonga

lea| 12.25.10 @ 12:07AM

I am a straight women, who believes that marriage between a man and a women is a disgrace to the natural order of things. It's an affront to the furtherment of the species and goes against the design promiscuity of men. Nature wanted men to be sluts and plant their seeds whenever and whereever they could. While nature designed women to be more reticent so the strongest could be birthed to the furtherment of the species. It for this reason that marriage is an abomination and we should turn our backs in disgust at all those who conduct in such unnatural behoviour...
ga'duh!! I can spout logical sounding nonsense as well!!

Dale Cord| 12.26.10 @ 3:29PM

Lea, Please ask your psychiatrist to change your Medication!

Negro X| 12.23.10 @ 12:11AM

Jeffrey, cry me a river.

Gay & Real| 12.23.10 @ 3:54AM

Harvard Social Science Research Paper Against Enshrining Gay Marriage, Secular:
[Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy]
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/pa.....d=1722155#
This comprehensive article may be the definitive answer to every argument made by proponents of redefining marriage. Downloadable [PDF]

Corporate Research Council, Dr. John R. Diggs, MD: Health Risks of Gay Sex:
http://www.corporateresourceco....._Risks.pdf

Comment - Gay folks need to stop hitching our wagons to the PC Left and start being honest, so we can truly be happy and healthy. Minimizing risk to appease political correctness is dangerous, and attempting to equate gay unions with traditional unions, when we should be honest our differences sends a bad message.

inge| 12.23.10 @ 6:23AM

I feel 'homosexuality=bowel movement sex' is unnatural, and should not be forced onto society as a whole as being normal, requiring 'rights' they should not even be considered as a pretense to pass laws.
I'm really tired of hearing 'they were born that way'; that's a big lie, choosing ones sexual lifestyle is just that-choice!

To those who find this behavior ok, or normal: Please spare me your arguments; I can't agree-homosexuality-men lying with men, is an abomination in God's Law.

For those who want to force me to accept this, sorry, I just can't. I want the right to disagree, and stick with my principles, namely wanting to be left alone; not labeled 'homophobe, racist, etc.'!
One 'Sodom and Gemorrhah is enough for me to understand the damage done by homosexuality.

Norman| 12.23.10 @ 3:42PM

No one cares about your acceptance, bigot
we are a country of laws-thats where we gain our rights-not through you
Your kind will be dead in ten to twenty years
You are a bigot-youy think gays and gay relationships arent the same or equal to straights
Sorry, if the bigoted shoe fits...

Alessandra | 12.24.10 @ 5:31AM

No, they aren't the same. But don't reality ever get in the way of your homosexuality psychological problem. For homosexuals, ignorance and stupidity are bliss.

lea| 12.25.10 @ 12:01AM

You have the right to your own opinions as you have the right to believe in whatever giant monkey in space you idolise but the other side also has the right to judge you on your opinions and call you nasty, red necked, homophobic, ignorant, hateful, intolerant and etc...

Harry| 12.23.10 @ 7:48AM

Anyone with experience of military life knows the first loyalty of a soldier or sailor must be to all the other members of his or her unit, large or small. A sexual attraction between two members of a unit will be bad for both morale and combat performance. I believe the people pushing for homosexuality in the armed forces are aware of this at some level - they are not ignorant but deliberately destructive andf treacherous.

lead answer | 12.23.10 @ 8:15AM

why don't you guys just leave them alone, why so much pressure they are no different from the others, so why torture them for not being themselves and to be different

JimH| 12.23.10 @ 9:24AM

Gay rights are a fallacy, along with Woman's rights, States rights or any other rights defined as belonging to a class. The only rights which can exist are the rights of the individual. And these rights are all, whether derived from God, Natural law or some other philosophic basis, negative rights. This means that the only true rights are the right to be left alone and secure in ones property.

Dale Cord| 12.23.10 @ 9:54AM

Lets stop all the word manipulations and call a spade a spade, the crap of "POLITICALLY CORRECT" IS NONSENSE AND SHEAR FOLLY! It's main objective is to take the focus of bad and abominable behavior and make it acceptable,to a wrenched and immoral society called the Gay Community LOL. HOMOSEXUALS AND LESBIANS IS WHAT THEY ARE, and they have no shame for their perverted life style! They now openly confess to the world their decadent way of living, and the Insolent Bastards that except this ungodly behavior by catering to them, are just as guilty of promoting their mental disorder as those blaming their Creator for making them this way.How disgusting! The STDs that millions suffer and die from is because of bad choices and decisions each of us make in this life. How many have to die before any logic enters their pea brains, and convicts them of their perverted lust for the flesh of their same gender? It's unacceptable, and an incurable disease called "AIDS" is a Red Flag waving in your face,and has been for years now, killing millions every year. Turning a deaf ear and blind eye to these plagues will not make them go away, but a change in your life style will. Its your free will that will determine how long you live. I have a feeling that "LUST" will win out in the end though. A definite sign of the times is all around us, and the moral compass that used to keep us walking in the right and normal direction has fallen from our grasp. When I served in the military back in 1960 to 1970. the rules on Homosexuals were : When found out they would be medically discharged and a code would be put on their discharge documents, informing anyone who needed to know of their background to what ever purpose, that these people were abnormal in their sexual preference.The lack of Shame in this day and age is what has brought these people out of the closet in droves, and the lack of moral character by our state and city officials has allowed them to parade in our streets promoting their abnormal and sinful behavior. How putrefying!

Richard Baker| 12.23.10 @ 10:06AM

Regardless, perversion and homosexuality are synonymous. Poor babies, someone disagrees with your disagreeable deathstyle.

Norman| 12.23.10 @ 3:44PM

No one agrees with you except the dying minority of bigoted, religious old men...
How can one disagree with a persons orientation? You hate lacks too, huh?
Gays are normal, gays are regular people
stop thinking of us in bed! we certainly dont think of your beer belly gross body having sex!

Dale Cord| 12.24.10 @ 11:45AM

Get over yourself Norman! There is no normal heterosexuals visualizing you or any homosexual having sex with someone of your same gender. That is a delusion of someone who has a mental disorder and blames everyone else for their obvious abnormal and rebellious behavior. Your name calling is that of a child who has grownup with very little sound parental guidance, and it is your kind of immature mentality that reaches the graveyard far,far sooner, then those of us who do not have a death wish by playing Russian Roulette, with a partner of the same gender who may or may not have the HIV DEATH VIRUS. Maybe you should blow the dust off of your Bible and see what your Creator has to say about the act of Homosexuality. It is unacceptable and an abomination for males to have sex with males, and likewise females to have sex with females and always will be. Period, and end of discussion!

matthew s. harrison| 12.23.10 @ 10:51AM

Lefties-I am trying to come to terms with your "comparison" of how gays are treated to slavery. That doesn't wash. (1) And that isn't what is being talked about here.
As for the slavery in the US-you morons obviously have been reading the text books printed by the islamic radicals-because the slave trade in America was brought here not by Europeans, but by Africans-most of them muslim. So don't go there guys. Slavery ended a century and a half ago-and we have paid dearly for it-and of course, will be forced to continue to pay dearly for it, through all the reparations Soetoro is guaranteeing to any and all comers who have darker skin than mine. Furthermore-lets leave the slavery issues in the bible out of the discussion of homosexuality in our society and/or in the military.
The gay community, and their useful idiots(the democrats) have forced their lifestyle, their sexual habits, and the rapid and continuing spread of HIV/AIDS on the heterosexual American society for a long time.
I can't turn on the television without men kissing, being in bed together, women kissing, etc. I am not a fan of watching to heterosexuals get it on-so why would I want to watch a couple of gay people do it? So-why is it so necessary for you to jam that stuff down our throats(pun intended)? Why must you force us to behold that stuff? We don't want to.
The argument over the military and gays is a different argument completely. You idiots and the gay community have made our country unsafe so that you can kiss others of the same sex while on base. That is bullshit!
The young men, full of piss and vinegar, graduating from high school around the country are going to walk right past the recruiting station if they think that the military will force them(and yes they are talking about forcing them) to shower with gay men. Seriously-no straight man would sign up for that-PERIOD!
Think of yourself as a corpsman on the field of battle-you are out with your guys and you take heavy fire. 2 guys go down(no pun intended) and they are both bleeding-profusely in fact-and both are not going to make it unless you dive in both hands and get wet. The guy on the left is straight-you have been out drinking with him while at home, your kids play together, your wives are friends. The guy on the right is openly gay. You have seen him kiss his boyfriend on base-and your first thought is HIV.
I don't care who you are-you are going to treat the guy on the left first-and let the other guy bleed out-because you will be thinking of your wife and kids at home, and the fact that you don't want to go home with AIDS.
Now-call me crazy-but if you think that every medic/corpsman(that is pronounced coremen for you liberals), is not going to think that way in battle you are nuts! So what do you do? Have a special corpsman for the gay guys in every outfit? Come on guys-you have put social correctness(by your definition, not the majority's definition) and political correctness ahead of the lives of these men and women. You have put your agenda of desensitizing the masses to your lewd behavior, so that you can go even further, so that you can teach our kids about gay sex in kindergarten, so that you can turn this country into Sodom. You have been working the plan for a long time-and you are getting your way. And all I can say, is that for the party in our country who is openly allowing muslims to take over-you brain surgeons are in for a rude awakening when the new shariah councils in the towns you live in are lining you up with all your gay friends to hang you for being gay-but that is a whole other discussion.
Point to all of this-I don't make you watch me screw-stop trying to make me watch you screw! Your sex lives and sexual preferences are between you and whatever pagan god you worship-and I don't need to know about them.
As for the military-you guys did this to yourselves-hope you are brushing up on your russian and mandarin! You are going to need them!

Norman| 12.23.10 @ 3:34PM

Youre an idiot, mathew-thank God-the real God (the one of love and equality for all) that you and your kind is dying off fast

Yar2011| 12.23.10 @ 7:40PM

Your prophesy that the coming generation(s) will not be opposed to homosexuality is just that: a prophesy. I don't think you are a prophet. I think you will imagine that things are going your way until you are either converted or die unrepentant. Where is it said that God is for equality? Where is it said that love allows indulging in filthy habits?

Dale Cord| 12.23.10 @ 5:48PM

Alessandra | 12.24.10 @ 5:25AM

Are some people born lesbians and homosexuals? Undoubtedly, or so it would seem.
====
It only "seems so" to really ignorant people. As much as it seems that people were born pedophilic, zoophilic, anorexic, etc.

Simple because someone displays a certain psychological dynamic at some point in their lives does not mean they were born that way.

Does it "seem" like millions of men were born loving American football? Yes, it "seems" so. But it's not true.

That people are "born gay" is just one of the most ignorant claims that liberals have foisted on society about human sexuality. It's too bad most people are too ignorant to even understand why it's false.

David in Houston| 12.26.10 @ 1:43PM

Sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with pedophilic, zoophilic, anorexic, etc. Until you understand that simple fact, any argument you come up with is basically invalid.

Alessandra | 12.26.10 @ 3:22PM

Above is your signed declaration of complete ignorance concerning the term "sexual orientation" and development of human sexuality, including homosexuality.

David in Houston| 12.26.10 @ 4:18PM

Pedophilic, zoophilic, anorexic, are ALL behaviors NOT sexual orientations. Sexual orientation is heterosexuality, homosexuality, and everything in-between (bi-sexuality). Yeah, you've declared your ignorance beautifully. If you would have taken 30 seconds to look up the dictionary definition of "sexual orientation" you would have known that. Instead, you insist on making up your own warped definitions to validate your homophobia. Sorry, the rest of the public isn't that stupid.

Alessandra | 1.6.11 @ 8:05AM

Orientation is defined as "emotional, romantic, or sexual attraction." This is in itself a faulty, contradictory definition. Leaving aside all the existing problems with the definition, which in no way address what homosexuality is in its totality, when we analyze sexual attraction we find it can be generated towards a human being of any age, of certain body parts only (and not a full human being), towards dead human beings, towards animals, etc.

Thus homosexual desire is completely analogous to any other dysfunctional sexual desire such as necrophilic, or zoophilic, or pedophilic, and sexual desire is certainly produced targetting the full age spectrum of humans: children, epheboliphic (adolescents), adults, seniors.

Secondly, having a homosexuality problem is analogous to anorexia in the sense that they are psychological dysfunctions (usually quite profound) developed as a result of experience and environment. It has nothing to do with being born this way.

feetxxxl| 12.24.10 @ 5:50AM

its interesting that with some believers no where in their discussion of homosexuality do they bring up the godlove(love one another as i have loved you) of the 2nd commandment(love your neighbor as yourself), which both romans and galatians say is the summation of all.....all.....all new covenant law.

in other words it is not church doctrine or belief system that is the summation of all new covenant law, but love.(anything without love is nothing or gains nothing 1cor13).

being homosexual does not come against this love. the fullness of this love can be lived out in being homosexual in the the same way it can be lived out being heterosexual.

Dale Cord| 12.24.10 @ 11:38AM

feetxxxl You obviously like to quote scripture as an excuse for your perverted life style. Then try this one on for size Lev. 18: 22. It is one that all Homosexuals and Lesbians avoid, but know what it says and means. For this they are without excuse!

lea| 12.24.10 @ 11:53PM

Quoting leviticus is a poor move, you silly bugger.

Leviticus 17:10–13 prohibits the eating of blood sausage
Leviticus 11:6–7 prohibits the eating of "unclean" hares and swine
Leviticus 11:10 declares shellfish "abominations"
Leviticus 20:9 prescribes the death penalty for cursing one’s father or mother
Leviticus 20:10 prescribes the death penalty for adultery
Leviticus 20:14 prescribes the penalty of being burnt alive for having a three-way with one’s wife and mother-in-law

Just some example of why the religious right are hypocrites and leviticus is a prudish douchebag who will rot in hell for being so consumed with hate and death.

Dale Cord| 12.25.10 @ 12:11PM

Lea,Lea,Lea....I don't expect atheists and name callers like you to believe in anything but yourselves, and your own self gratification inspired by your father Satan.However the fact in the matter does not change. You are without excuse, those of you who have sexual relations with your same gender!When you mention "Hypocrite" you obviously are standing in front of a mirror.

feetxxxl| 12.24.10 @ 5:52AM

interesting this denigating attitude about homosexuality. how is it that it is destructive to society? homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a father, friend, attorney, counselor, teacher, administrator, soldier, pastor, brother, neighbor,etc.

homosexuals bond in the same ways as heterosexuals out of mutual love, affection, devotion, trust, respect for a shared committed life together.
the legal gay marriages of massachussetts have not descended into the 50% heterosexual divorce rate of those heterosexual marriages that were performed at the same time.

homosexual marriages provide loving nurturing homes for raising children as do heterosexuals which has been made evident by their offering their homes for foster care or adoption to rejected and abandoned children of heterosexual unions.

Dale Cord| 12.24.10 @ 11:20AM

feetxxxl The answer to your question: ( interesting this denigrating attitude about homosexuality. how is it that it is destructive to society?) A....... Sodom and Gomorrah! Read the Book!!

lea| 12.24.10 @ 11:48PM

Why the hell would you referr anyone to a book of fairy tales and made up mumbo jumbo to answer a legitamate question?
That's the equivalent of 'because my mum said so' if you want to prove something facts, figures and statisics are needed.

Dale Cord| 12.25.10 @ 12:13PM

lea| 12.27.10 @ 7:04PM

Uhh what? Seriously if you can't put out a competent argument without cliched hyperbole and ignorant statements then stay out of the argument and leave the fight to someone from your side who can string a thought or two together.

Dale Cord| 12.27.10 @ 11:30PM

Lea, Please ask your psychiatrist to change your Medication! and hurry up with your adolescent remarks,before they yell lights out!

Dale Cord| 12.24.10 @ 11:52AM

(Just in case you missed my first comment on this subject!) Lets stop all the word manipulations and call a spade a spade, the crap of "POLITICALLY CORRECT" IS NONSENSE AND SHEAR FOLLY! It's main objective is to take the focus of bad and abominable behavior and make it acceptable,to a wrenched and immoral society called the Gay Community LOL. HOMOSEXUALS AND LESBIANS IS WHAT THEY ARE, and they have no shame for their perverted life style! They now openly confess to the world their decadent way of living, and the Insolent Bastards that except this ungodly behavior by catering to them, are just as guilty of promoting their mental disorder as those blaming their Creator for making them this way.How disgusting! The STDs that millions suffer and die from is because of bad choices and decisions each of us make in this life. How many have to die before any logic enters their pea brains, and convicts them of their perverted lust for the flesh of their same gender? It's unacceptable, and an incurable disease called "AIDS" is a Red Flag waving in your face,and has been for years now, killing millions every year. Turning a deaf ear and blind eye to these plagues will not make them go away, but a change in your life style will. Its your free will that will determine how long you live. I have a feeling that "LUST" will win out in the end though. A definite sign of the times is all around us, and the moral compass that used to keep us walking in the right and normal direction has fallen from our grasp. When I served in the military back in 1960 to 1970. the rules on Homosexuals were : When found out they would be medically discharged and a code would be put on their discharge documents, informing anyone who needed to know of their background to what ever purpose, that these people were abnormal in their sexual preference.The lack of Shame in this day and age is what has brought these people out of the closet in droves, and the lack of moral character by our state and city officials has allowed them to parade in our streets promoting their abnormal and sinful behavior. How putrefying

David in Houston| 12.26.10 @ 1:32PM

"However, it also recognizes that homosexuality is a problematical behavioral characteristic that shapes and affects human behavior, and often in profound and unsettling ways. -- In fact, truth be told, homosexuality is often a very unhealthy and destructive behavioral trait."

Unbelievably offensive, and 100% false. The only people that find homosexuality a problematic behavioral characteristic are the ones that are being prevented from demonizing them, such as so-called "family values" groups and this author. There are currently hundreds-of-thousands of gay couples in long-term monogamous relationships that have lasted for decades. A great deal of those couples have been legally married in those states that allow it. (You can add 10 other countries to that list.) You'd think promoting that kind of "behavior" would be beneficial to society, no? ...or would the author prefer gays to be relegated to one-night stands, while spreading various diseases? You can't demonize a group of people, while at the same time legally force a second-class status on them.

"And it is something that, for some people at least, can be altered or changed." -- This is probably the biggest lie of them all. Because a few self-loathing ultra-religious gay people decided to not act out on their innate sexual orientation, this somehow proves that they are straight. Nothing could be further from the truth. Religious and societal pressure force these gay people to live a "straight lifestyle", even going so far as to getting married to the opposite sex and having children. I have seen this scenario play out twice in my circle of friends. Georgia Mega-church Pastor Jim Swilley recently came out as gay, after being married to a woman for the past 20 years, and having 4 children. Pretending to be straight, doesn't make it so.

"...how do we as a society show tolerance and acceptance for gay men and women without legitimizing a behavioral characteristic that we know is far from ideal?" -- Such a blindly bigoted statement. As though all heterosexuals live a moral and upstanding lifestyle just because they're straight. Tiger Woods ring a bell? How about Rush Limbaugh, and his 4th bogus marriage? How about Elliott Spitzer's prostitution scandal? Do I really need to go on? A person's sexual orientation has NO bearing on whether or not someone is living an "ideal life" ...and who are you to say whose life is ideal or not?

Dale Cord| 12.26.10 @ 3:17PM

Homosexuals and Lesbians are what they are, and they will defend their acts of perversion and rebellion against their Creator, to the death and an a early and permanent residence in the "graveyards" of the world! Facts and statistics don't lie. AIDS,SYPHILIS,GONORRHEA, etc to name just a few are the plagues of immoral sexual behavior. The death toll continues to mount in the Homosexual communities throughout the world at large, even as we labor in our inept and feeble attempts here, to try with the logical reality of it all ,to reach that same mentality of those who were blinded at the gates of Lots home,while trying to have sex with the two angels sent as warnings to Lots family, to leave Sodom before God's warnings of "VENGEANCE IS MINE" became a reality, and the perversions of that city became ashes . No sound reasoning or known facts based on truth will be an adequate answer to a demonized mind. The stench of billions of human beings who have gone the way of Sodom and Gomorrah ,and now lay rotting in hospitals should have reached the brain through the nostrils of those, who continue to defend such defiance against God and humanity. Let them all die the death prescribed for Infidels, and Our Creator will sort them out at judgment day as they gnash and grind their teeth with unacceptable excuses for their conduct, on their way to the lake of fire and eternal death. If it had been up to me,I never would have saved Noah and his family in the first place! End of discussion "PERIOD"

Dale Cord| 12.28.10 @ 12:32PM

2011 a year that will live in Infamy. Future school history books will read: The year the Muslims conquered the United States of America. With not so much as a whimper from its cowardly military leaders, and name calling armchair patriots. Disgraceful,Shameful there are no words to adequately describe her defeat. As the 300 Spartans strength and ingenuity conquered all of those who challenged them, so a small band of renegades conquered the greatest country the world has known. When Davids rock slued Goliath. It also foretold a warning. "The bigger they are,the harder they Fall." Our country lost its battle of survival when it became intoxicated with its deceptive mentality, that it did not need its Creator anymore, and wisdom no longer was apart of its citizens physiology to survive

The American Spectator

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