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This clever video from SpenceTF Productions, created for the Commonwealth Foundation’s “Please No More Taxes” contest, provides an excellent illustration:
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Al Adab| 11.23.10 @ 12:34PM
One of the recommendations of the debt commission was for a change in the tax code to a two level rate. I believe it was 23 and 27 percent only. That is one we should grab onto and enact.
Curly Smith| 11.23.10 @ 12:50PM
Should we? Most of the flat tax discussion that I'm familiar with assumes a 17% rate is required to replace current tax revenues. The debt commission has essentially proposed a flat 25% rate. That looks like an 8% increase to me.
Al Adab| 11.23.10 @ 1:23PM
Flat tax would be first choice (baring of course no income tax) but unlikely to get there in one act. This is an opportunity to sieze momentum and we should do so. We got into this mess incrementally. We can work out the same way.
Merchant | 11.23.10 @ 1:30PM
I am afraid that such the flat tax increase too quickly would have been affected
mike| 11.23.10 @ 3:04PM
How much does $10 hurt someone who makes $100 a day? Compared to $1 hurting someone who makes $10 every 2 weeks? Add it up...
7 times 100 = 700
700 minus 70 = 630... can you survive off 630 for a day?
For every 2 weeks someone makes $10, but is taxed at the same rate as someone who makes $100 would only receive $9 to survive on for the next 2 weeks... COULD YOU SURVIVE OFF OF THAT?
Thats the very basic and simple problem with conservative economic policy and the so called fair tax!
Last Sane Man, CA | 11.23.10 @ 3:38PM
You weren't paying attention. People under a certain income level don't get taxed by income tax anyway and most fiscally conservative tax plans don't even suggest that of which you're accusing them; your example is bogus.
Besides, the video wasn't in the remotest suggesting a totally flat income tax. The video was making the point that the Bush tax cuts should be extended.
Kaiser| 11.23.10 @ 3:42PM
Also, NO ONE in the U.S. makes "$10 per week". Of course no one can survive on it, but no one actually works for $10 per week in the real world.
The problem with your argument lies in basic arithmetic, dude.
patrick| 11.23.10 @ 3:46PM
Wow, you're an idiot, $10/week = $2/day, NOBODY MAKES THAT LITTLE STUPID!!! your math is pathetic. Go back to school, LIEberal!
mike| 11.23.10 @ 5:34PM
Well anyone who took my statement of $10 every 2 weeks is a complete RETARD! It's theoretical. Another words, an example of why a flat tax or "fair" tax doesn't work! I thought about putting that in the post, apparently I was wrong in think conservatives actually have brains.
And if you don't get the point you never will. But let me try to explain it for you... Essentially the $250,000 monthly income growers have several means in which they achieve that amount. Meaning several investments and/or positions that make money every day... 250,000 divided by 31 days is what.... thats right $8,064.52 a day.
The average middle class family house hold, typically get paid bi-weekly, and usually on a minimum wage. For this example I will use the minimum wage of Florida which is $7.41. Working, at best 40 hrs a week, that would be what.... thats right $296.40.... now stay with me guys I know this is difficult but I believe y'all can do it.... what is the bi-weekly income before taxes of a middle class family on $7.41 wage, working 40hrs for 2 weeks? That's right, $592.80. Now lets say you have to pay rent, general household bills and you are a single mother with 3 kids... Would it be "fair" to tax her with the same tax rate as a person making almost $8,100 a day? Meaning what is more important to survive the $160.06 that would be taken away from the middle-class family based off of a "fair" tax of 27%.... or the $67,500 that would be taken away from the family making $250,000 a month?
That is where the problem is.... that $160.06 can do a lot for a poor family rather then the chump change that the rich family has to give up. just another fact to point out...
Despite cries of creeping socialism from President Obama's critics, the New York Times reports American companies are actually thriving.
"American businesses earned profits at an annual rate of $1.66 trillion in the third quarter... That is the highest figure recorded since the government began keeping track over 60 years ago, at least in nominal or non-inflation-adjusted terms."
"Corporate profits have been going gangbusters for a while. Since their cyclical low in the fourth quarter of 2008, profits have grown for seven consecutive quarters, at some of the fastest rates in history."
So, how well has Obama economic policy worked, apparently very well for major corporations. Or better put, how many jobs have the Bush Tax Cuts created out of these corporations getting them? I'm sorry but the crazy notion that trikle down economics work showed back in 92' that they DIDN'T work and they are showing now that they STILL don't work. In fact it was only that of the tax rates of Clinton where everyone made money and jobs were bountiful! Do your research and stop listening to what Rush/Beck and idiots like these people who made this video say.
mike| 11.23.10 @ 8:06PM
Well, your definition of middle class is way off the standard economic definition based on your numbers, so you are inviting criticism and marginalization by using an inaccurate model to try prove your point.
To your point though, while that is a small amount of money to live on, it is also a very small amount to pay in taxes. So their struggle to pay for an independent existence will not be affected very much if they are less 9 dollars or not. But the critical thing that it does provide is a personal consequence to government spending. When the poor pay no taxes, they do not care what is being spent, only what services are available. If they did pay some taxes, even a very small amount, then it would become significant whether they elect officials that want to increase taxes or cause them to go up through reckless spending. They can see the cost of increasing services and support the ones they need the most. And don't forget the other half of the flat tax, which is to eliminate loopholes, maximums, and other shelters so that the wealthy pay the tax on ALL their income, which is a far cry from what shelters allow the wealthy to avoid today. If you want people to care what is happening, then they need to have a stake in it that they clearly understand. A flat tax (or just a couple of rates) is an excellent way to bring up the net taxes on the very wealthy and get the low earners into the conversation on how tax dollars are spent.
Ellis Wyatt| 11.24.10 @ 1:39PM
Mike,
I'll play along. The guy making $10 is not taxed anyway. What you seem to forget is the guy making $100 is the guy that creates the job for the one making $10. Penalize him by taking more of the money away from him that he earns and there is less investment and productivity that leads to a job for the guy that makes $10.
So is he better off making $10 and not caring whether someone earns more than he does and pays a disproportionate amount of taxes or is he better off penalizing the other guy more and not having a job himself?
Raise our taxes even more and we just take our ball and go play somewhere else. That means fewer jobs, less revenues for the government to provide for you, and lower wages and higher taxes passed on to those who pay no taxes now. Welcome to the laws of economics.
Margi| 1.4.11 @ 12:41PM
Then explain to me why the Bush tax cuts didnt work to creat jobs? We have been bleeding jobs since what, 2006? Sorry, not buying your argument. When the rich get their tax cuts, they just hide the money oversees or put it into saving. Us middle class schmoes(sp?) spend it immediately to buy necessary goods. Sad that you hold the middle class hostage to help the upper class- who doesnt need the tax cut anyhow.
PS- Why do we have to call each other names when we disagree?
Warrior | 11.23.10 @ 3:35PM
Typical liberal bullshit. You can't even present a rational argument. First of all, your less than 3rd grade abilities to present equations is pitiful and your utter confusion with weeks and days gives your thoughts the appearance of being drug addled. The context of a fair tax is that it removes all the loopholes. The poor, as well as others are already saddled with taxes on sales, gas, "sin", utilities, etc., so fairness in your context never has and cannot exist. The only thing this country needs to provide to a poor person is an opportunity, the rest is their problem to qualify or be smart enought to accept it. In order for the poor to have an opportunity, people need to buy boats, cars, go to restaurants, shop for items, ad nauseum. Without money in thier pockets to do so, the rich stay home and the poor remain poor. If you don't like trickle down, then move to Cuba or Venezuela.
Mike| 11.23.10 @ 5:41PM
"The only thing this country needs to provide to a poor person is an opportunity, the rest is their problem to qualify or be smart enought to accept it."
One word... FASCISM!
Also, for the last 8 years the GOP has done this kind of policy where THEY say creates opportunity and therefore creates jobs.... if thats the case then why are there millions of people unemployed and losing everything they could afford during Clinton years?
THEY must just be lazy people who want food stamps and the government to support them completely right? All those millions of poor people are poor because THEY choose to be poor. Bush and the GOP did everything they could to give them opportunity to become rich!
Where the hell have you been for the last 8 years?
Your a complete joke!
NewWaveCon| 11.23.10 @ 6:16PM
""The only thing this country needs to provide to a poor person is an opportunity, the rest is their problem to qualify or be smart enought to accept it."
One word... FASCISM!"
Actually, this is the opposite of fascism, which is largely based around state intervention of a politicized and ideological economy. A laissez-faire economy (which is what the original poster referenced) would be far more offensive to fascists that a liberal capitalism which serves and supports the vast majority (from whom they draw power) over the wealthy few.
Nice try, though. Maybe after you get an education, you can come back and sit at the big boys' table.
c. j. acworth| 11.23.10 @ 7:30PM
"...for the last eight years the GOP has done this kind of policy.."
Remind me again, who has been in control of congress since '06 , and the whole of the government since '08. Not the republicans, as I recall.
mike | 11.23.10 @ 9:50PM
I'm sorry but you are a dumb ass! What is the debate about right now? Extending the BUSH TAX CUTS, THAT THE GOP PUT INTO PLACE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DECADE! So it has been GOP policy that has gotten us in this mess in the first place.
Warrior | 11.23.10 @ 10:27PM
Mike, keep laughing asshole. It is not the reduction of taxes that have gotten us into this mess, but entitlements and out of control spending. What part of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness did you not understand, there are not guarantees. Screw you and your liberal canards. All you idiots sucking on the government teat will have a rude awakening when the productive stop paying taxes altogether and further hide their cash.
Ellis Wyatt| 11.24.10 @ 1:51PM
The Bush tax cuts lifted us out of the recession Bush inherited and created a record 52 consecutive months of growth adding millions of jobs. How convenient of you to leave that out. The left has been in control since 2007 and we have seen the meltdown of the housing market that has led to the current recession and economic policies and regulations that have destroyed our economy. This whole mess was caused by the government removing risk from the marketplace and not doing their jobs in regards to regulations. The Bush administration warned of the coming bubble burst more than a dozen times but were ignored by the democrats who decided it would be wise to allow Fannie and Freddie to have even more leverage. Hello housing bust, goodbye jobs.
The Obama economic policies have stymied any recovery as of yet because more bad regulations and higher taxes are not incentives for economic growth.
Mike | 11.23.10 @ 7:12PM
Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to CORPORATIST perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined extreme RIGHT-WING political views along with collectivism. Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far RIGHT.
Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong. They claim that culture is created by the collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus they reject individualism. Viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they see pluralism as a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.
They advocate the creation of a single-party state. Fascists reject and resist the autonomy of cultural or ethnic groups who are not considered part of the fascists' nation and who refuse to assimilate or are unable to be assimilated. They consider attempts to create such autonomy as an affront and a threat to the nation. Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement. They identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.
They oppose LIBERALISM (as a bourgeois movement) and Marxism (as a proletarian movement) for being exclusive economic class-based movements. Fascists present their ideology as that of an economically trans-class movement that promotes ending economic class conflict to secure national solidarity. They believe that economic classes are not capable of properly governing a nation, and that a merit-based elite of experienced military persons must rule through regimenting a nation's forces of production and securing the nation's independence. Fascism perceives CONSERVATISM as partly valuable for its support of order in society but disagrees with its typical opposition to change and modernization. Fascism presents itself as a solution to the perceived benefits and disadvantages of conservatism by advocating state-controlled modernization that promotes orderly change while resisting the dangers to order in society of pluralism and independent initiative.
Fascists tend to support a "third position" in economic policy, which they believe superior to both the rampant individualism of laissez-faire capitalism and the severe control of state socialism. Italian Fascism and most other fascist movements promote a corporatist economy whereby, in theory, representatives of capital and labour interest groups work together within sectoral corporations to create both harmonious labour relations and maximization of production that would serve the national interest. However, other fascist movements and ideologies, such as Nazism, did not utilize this form of economy.
My dear friend, I know what you are going to say"it's easy to copy and paste from a left-wing web site like Wikipedia" but to be honest it's all cited and pretty must put your screwed idea of what fascism really is. What fascism really is is a far RIGHT version of capitalism that bases it's ideas off of corporate interests and a small elite group who think they can do more for the country than the larger non-elite people. Anothers the rich know better and it's the poor people's fault they are poor. EXACTLY what you friend, Warrior, stated in the comment I responded to.
"Nice try, though. Maybe after you get an education, you can come back and sit at the big boys' table."
JO| 11.23.10 @ 8:02PM
First, you don't acknowledge the fact the "poor" people are not paying any income taxes and are therefore not "hurt" by these policies. Instead you focus on responses to your poor choice of numbers. That is b/c your argument doesn't really hold water. "Can you survive off that?" ... Your attitude and ignorance is part of the problem. People aren't supposed to "survive off that" ... they are supposed to be motivated to provide a better life for themselves and their posterity.
Second ... you LIE about Fascism. The first definition is: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. Nothing describes today's liberals better: dictator, forcible suppression, regiment industry, nationalists and racists.
Third, your retort is a joke. The "average" middle class family does NOT make minimum wage. I don't even have to expound on that.
Finally, do you think our tax rates should be higher? Really? Did you write an extra check to the US Treasury last year over and above your "fair share"? Nice try ... typical liberal ... you don't think YOUR taxes should be higher (you are free to pay more if you choose to), you think OUR taxes should be higher. You confuse COMPASSION with COMPULSION.
Mike | 11.23.10 @ 10:04PM
"First, you don't acknowledge the fact the "poor" people are not paying any income taxes and are therefore not "hurt" by these policies. Instead you focus on responses to your poor choice of numbers. That is b/c your argument doesn't really hold water. "Can you survive off that?" ... Your attitude and ignorance is part of the problem. People aren't supposed to "survive off that" ... they are supposed to be motivated to provide a better life for themselves and their posterity."
-- Um, the argument isn't about paying taxes, my comment is about the FAIR TAX and how it wouldn't work based off of THEORETICAL numbers. That are a very common reason both liberals AND (sane) conservatives use.
"Second ... you LIE about Fascism. The first definition is: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. Nothing describes today's liberals better: dictator, forcible suppression, regiment industry, nationalists and racists."
-- Um, please give me example as to just how the Obama administration is a dictator, forcible suppression, regiment industry, nationalists and racists. I have plenty for you conservatives. Nearly everything Rush says is racist, sexist and just wants to suppress opposition.
"Third, your retort is a joke. The "average" middle class family does NOT make minimum wage. I don't even have to expound on that."
--Really? Really? Have you seen the pay rate at Macy's this holiday season... $7.41, the freaking minimum wage.
"Finally, do you think our tax rates should be higher? Really? Did you write an extra check to the US Treasury last year over and above your "fair share"? Nice try ... typical liberal ... you don't think YOUR taxes should be higher (you are free to pay more if you choose to), you think OUR taxes should be higher. You confuse COMPASSION with COMPULSION."
-- No, I do not think they should be higher I would just like to go BACK to tax policy that actually WORKED and everyone made money and could live. I would also like to know, since the national debt is such a big issue for y'all whack jobs, just how you are going to pay for the tax cuts that are gonna cost $700 billion?
Warrior | 11.23.10 @ 10:39PM
You really can't help yourself. You throw out theoretical numbers like they have any meaning beyond your inner delusion liberal fantasy world. You then attempt to compare a radio talk show host to the POTUS and do not have the synaptic capacity to see how ridiculous that truly is. Lastly, you poor government educated sot, you allude to tax policy, as if there ever was one that eliminated any group of people being poor. There are always winner and like you, losers. When you pull you head out of your ass, you will also realize that tax cuts do not cost anything. The only thing that is needed is a reduction of spending and then the need for taxes will be reduced (amazing how that math works).
JO| 11.24.10 @ 8:58AM
Well said, Warrior.
"the argument isn't about paying taxes, my comment is about the FAIR TAX " ... wow, how to respond to this ... do I even have to describe how/why this is so stupid? let's try: the FairTax is about paying taxes. I never said anything about the FT. We're even giving you the BOD and only discussing keeping in place the current tax code. The FT will help everyone, except lawyers, IRS agents and special interest groups (that is why libs will fight it) Back the point: Why does reducing current taxes hurt the poor? A: It doesn't.
Because new people being hired into the workforce may come in at min wage at Macy's, doesn't make them "average". You get a raise after one year, dumdum. If a family lives off of min wage for more than 1 year, then they are FAR BELOW average. (BTW, just b/c you make min wage, doesn't make you average.) That is what, $15k per yr with no vacation. You're trying to tell us the avg family makes $15k a year? If that is the case, NOTHING you say should be counted. You are truly ignorant. When you get out of HS, you may get a job that pays more than min wage.
Also the "whack" jobs are calling for reduced spending. The Bush admin spent too much green, we can agree on that. PBO has outdone that already. If you're not a teen, think about this ... if you are having trouble paying your bills in your own house, what do you do? 1) sell stuff 2) 2nd job 3) reduce spending. If you're serious you do all 3. Why can't you all reduce spending? IMO we need to get back to the constitutional limits of the feds.
examples: banking, auto, school system, TSA, crap & tax, health care takeover, a action, you want to control everything from what kind of light bulb we use to how much water flushes my toilet (who wants to control the bedroom?). But, if you don't get my above comments, you'll never get these. I have to get to work so you can continue to be an ignorant, below average lemming. Cheers
Mike| 11.24.10 @ 9:54AM
My last comment which I don't you will answer is this...
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR THE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH, WHICH WILL COST $700 BILLION?
A couple more things, one you cant point out how Obama is a dictator or fervent suppressor of opposition when for the last 2 years all he has tried to do is COMPROMISE with 5 years. The republicans in the senate have only done one thing, filibuster everything that Reid/Pelosi/Obama have tried to do.... OPPOSITION SUPPRESSION... and countless teabaggers keep bringing up the first black presidents birth and religious issues that either have nothing to do with being potus or have already been disproved. SO again are are your examples of Obama being a fascist.... I know Beck likes to came it, and y'all fools only follow a false prophets!
And last but not least, none of y'all can claim that CURRENT tax code, established but CONSERVATIVE ideals, has worked. It has completely failed yet again! It failed with the Reagan "experiment" and the Bush "fuck up". The only time in the last 30 years has there be economic boom, where not only the rich in this country made money, but the poor and the middle class grew and could support their families, that was during the Clinton years.
"banking, auto, school system, TSA, crap & tax, health care takeover, a action, you want to control everything from what kind of light bulb we use to how much water flushes my toilet (who wants to control the bedroom?)."
-- banking.... you mean the greedy rich folks who started this whole mess due to deregulation right?
--Auto.... you mean the auto industry that just came out of bankruptcy and is now thriving and has paid back its government debt 100%? And is now employing many people in their respected states and liberal and conservative folks say WORKED!
--school system.... yeah because privatizing the school system works great in places like Africa where the only people who go to school are the ones who can afford it. Yep thats what we need here in the US! Also, which side wants to preach in our schools and which side wants to actually teach our children REAL science and math and not the bible?
--TSA... Stop everything! White male being violated!
They came first for the Muslim’s junk,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Muslim.
Then they came for the black’s junk,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t black.
Then they came for the women’s junk,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a woman.
Then they came for my junk…
…and I kicked up a huge fuss and demanded that they cut it out because it was infringing upon my freedom and goddammit you should listen to me because I’m a white dude and I and I alone have domain over my junk
Brilliant!
The TSA's new safety procedures are egregious and invasive and little more than security theater. It doesn't make us any safer. People shouldn't have to choose between starring in a porno(machines bought by the BUSH CO.) and getting molested to get on a plane(which you NOW care about cause Obama is in control, but was perfectly ok with it when Bush was in control).
That said, it's certainly not the worst governmental abuse of our civil liberties. Give me a choice between getting fondled by the TSA and having AT&T spy on me on behalf of the NSA, and I'll take the latter. At least it's my choice to get on a plane, and I can do everything in my power to minimize time spent at airports.
I also assume you ladies would rather be fondled at the airport than have Republicans put a lock on your uterus.
And at least those TSA people are engaging in non-discriminatory groping, as opposed to the manhandling brown and black people get from police on city streets and sidewalks.
But white men are too special to suffer such indignities. Their right to their junk (and Viagra, if it stops working) is sacrosanct!
--cap & trade... eh get over it, I would really like to leave my kids with a beautiful earth, not a earth run by BP and Exxon/Mobile.
--Healthcare.... do your freaking research it's the conservative answer to HillaryCare back in 1993. And it isn't a takeover... once again RETARDS!!!
--Who wants to control the bedroom.... WOW REALLY? just where is it in progressive ideals that say's a family or woman has to have a baby no matter what? Or how bout no anal sex? Or how about only white straight people can get married? Want me to go on? Stop giving out condoms... personal responsibility!!!
Ok your right Obama is the fascist government we fear the most! But I thought Beck said he was the socialist anti-christ? I'm confused.... didn't the nazis want to not only end the world of minorities/Jews but also stop the spread of communism and socialism? And therefore became.... a FASCIST country?
Read a fucking history book you dope!
So enjoy your mansions and your little oh servants, but when it's all gone and your living from paycheck to paycheck making a little more than 25,000 a year, maybe then you will truly see just how fucked Bush made us! And just how fucked conservative policy really is.
Warrior | 11.24.10 @ 11:07AM
Great response Mike, that is if you enjoy triangulation and obfuscation. You either have ADD, as observed with your inability to stay on topic or you received new talking points from HuffPo or Kos. Again, you don't pay for tax cuts, you reduce the uneccesary spending. This idea is very simple and should be easy for you to grasp, although I'm wondering if anything outside of Elmo and Bid Bird can deliver a message you would understand. Now you want to throw the "white man" racial argument into it, bravo. Great liberal arguments always turn to racsim when no facts can fit into a rational response. The TSA has not stopped one terrorist event or detained one hostile individual in its entire history. If, as you digress, the police were to randomly grope and pat down anyone, and even with probable cause grab someone's "junk" we would have every liberal running for their ACLU direct dial. When you look at statistics, look at where the most crime takes place and which population group perpetrates the majority of it. Cap and trade is a great idea, look at what green energy policies have done for California. What makes it even funnier, with all these environmental mandates, CA still ranks 7 cities in the top 10 dirtiest/polluted cities in the country.
By the way, your understanding of history would make your 2nd grade teacher proud and your 3rd grade teacher cringe. Those of us who can shoot straight and rub two sticks together can live easily off of little money and never be hungry. Have a great Thanksgiving, and remember the donated turkey you are going eat came from someone with a job who was willing to give something to the poor.
margi| 1.4.11 @ 12:46PM
Pretty sure Rush ran to the ACLU when he needed help- remember that?
Tim the Enchanter| 11.24.10 @ 1:05PM
Mike- living, breathing proof of the adage: "You just can't fix stupid."
Marxists: bringing teh stoopid and teh crayzee since 1848.
Ellis Wyatt| 11.24.10 @ 2:01PM
"HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR THE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH, WHICH WILL COST $700 BILLION?"
First of all your premise is inaccurate, nobody is talking about cutting any taxes for anyone, the debate is about not raising taxes. Secondly, cost who $700 billion? It is our money, not the governments. $700 billion can easily be cut from government spending, repealing the disastrous healthcare bill would be a good place to start. There is no need to "pay" for a tax cut. How about this, we will "pay" for it by spending less than we take in revenues.
My question to you is, how do you pay for the tax increase which will result in less revenues actually taken in by the government?
Brilliant analysis, lets raise taxes, reduce our tax revenues, kill economic growth, keep unemployment high, and increase government spending. If that is what you desire move to Europe you big dope.
JO| 11.24.10 @ 7:55PM
Exhibit A: Mike -- perfect example of liberal "thought" -- don't "discuss", argue or debate without resorting to name calling and nasty language. [BTW, the only true racists see everything through the prism of race.] I think I saw those exact same posts on PuffingtonHoes.
As Ellis said, you don't "pay" for tax cuts ... it's OUR money. You're free to send more to the IRS if you choose.
I'm sure you're a big prop of the health care takeover (it is ... read the bill), gov't schools, etc. Ask yourself this ... if your healthcare is so important, if your education is so important ... why won't you pay for it? Instead of demanding we pay for it? [talk about kicking up a huge fuss! lol]
Citizens groped by TSA: 6+billion (2m/day*9yr)
Terrorists caught by groping: zero
Anyway, warrior/ellis/etc, I appreciate reading your rational post/thoughts. Cheers