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The Spectacle Blog
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) makes the conservative case against divorcing economic and social issues:
BAIER: Some of your fellow Republicans - Mitch Daniels, the governor of Indiana, has suggested calling a truce on social issues while the country deals with the emergency economic situation. What do you think about that?
DEMINT: Well, you can’t be a fiscal conservative and not be a social conservative. A large part of the expansive government is to make up for a dysfunctional society because our culture’s falling apart. The family’s falling apart.
Media Matters disapproves, but they are being overliteral. There are obvious, well-documented connections between family breakdown and the growth of the welfare state. (There are also less obvious but equally well-documented connections that run in the opposite direction.)
View all comments (42) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by W. James Antle, III
http://spectator.org/blog/2010/11/10/daniels-and-demint
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Margie| 11.10.10 @ 3:35PM
DEMINT: "Well, you can't be a fiscal conservative and not be a social conservative."
I see I'm in good company. Along with Ronald Reagan, and of course the Founding Fathers.
Thank you, Mr. DeMint.
darcy| 11.10.10 @ 3:44PM
Family breakdown is a pre-condition for statist control; it is by design.
Self-reliance, character, honesty, these used to be the measure of a man when the family was intact. But a little gov't help here and a little gov't help there, and with the help of Hollywood, and voila, the nation teeters on bankruptcy. And no more is heard in the land that self-reliance, good character, and honesty are virtues to which we should aspire; now it's all about fulfillment and self-determination, oh yes, and victimhood.
DeMint is right. Daniels is naive, and therefore not the man to do the job to put things right. Daniels would apply a bandage and call it good. DeMint understands that it is the moral rot that fuels the welfare state and provokes our fiscal crisis.
JimBeam| 11.10.10 @ 9:26PM
And how, might I ask, is big government going to cure said moral rot?
If you believe that it is big government's job to promote and enforce conservative values, then you are as just as utopian as the liberals.
Margie| 11.10.10 @ 11:39PM
And you got "Big government' from reading this post, how? Oh never mind. You must be a Libertarian.
So you read her post as that.
Unbelievable.
JimBeam| 11.11.10 @ 9:04AM
The previous poster is calling upon a politician, DeMint, to set things right and criticizing another politician, Daniels, for not wanting to do the same.
If that isn't looking for the help of big government, I don't know what is.
It's not that DeMint is wrong it's that he wants to use the power of government to do something that government does not have the ability to do. How many souls have been saved by a government program?
Margie| 11.11.10 @ 3:03PM
You're wrong and I don't know if it's on purpose or you're just really reading what he said the wrong way. I'm going to say it once and not converse with you further.
DeMint is not FOR BIG GOVERNMENT. He was acknowledging the reasons why things have fallen apart. It isn't conservatives who've created the Welfare State. It's the Left.
You Libertarians read everything from your anarchistic rose colored glasses.
mike| 11.11.10 @ 2:07PM
Darcy:
Two points. First of all, Daniels is just as conservative socially as DeMint is. What Daniels is saying is that right now, we need to emphasize and address fiscal issues and leave the social issue fights for another day. He's right. I'm a social and fiscal conservative, but if you think that abortion and gay marriage are more important than the national debt and the increasing amount of our GDP spent by the federal government then you aren't thinking clearly. If our country goes the way of Greece, it won't matter much whether we keep traditional marriage alive.
Second, I sometimes believe that the term "social conservative" is code for one issue -- abortion. If you favor laws prohibiting all abortions, you're a social conservative. If you don't, then you aren't. For example, I'm pro-2d Amendment, against same-sex marriage, opposed to most forms of affirmative action, and generally upset by the constant attempts by the left to eliminate all forms of religion and religious symbols (at least Judeo-Christian ones) from public life. I also have moral problems with abortion. I oppose any sort of federal encouragement of it (including funding to Planned Parenthood). But because I don't favor using GOVERNMENT to put doctors who perform abortions and women who get them in jail, somehow the Phyllis Schlaflys of the world think I'm some sort of left-wing baby-killer. I don't understand this. Why don't the James Dobsons of the world want to throw adulterers in jail, too?
The fact of the matter is that Reagan was a social conservative who did nothing to advance the Dobson agenda at all. He "coopted" those folks to help him promote fiscal conservatism. At least Daniels tells it like it is.
Cheers,
Mike
Margie| 11.10.10 @ 3:59PM
Hi darcy! You've just explained it so very well.
darcy| 11.10.10 @ 11:55PM
Love you, Margie!
darcy
Spicy Joker| 11.10.10 @ 4:04PM
He's right. Every self-described fiscal conservative/social liberal turns out to be a fiscal liberal - Olympia Snowjob, the Jerkinator, Arlen Sphincter, Charlie Crisp, etc.
mike| 11.11.10 @ 2:15PM
Not true, Joker. None of those folks were fiscal conservatives in any sense of the word. How about William F. Buckley, Barry Goldwater, and Dick Cheney to start?
Terry| 11.10.10 @ 4:20PM
Amen, DeMint.
Bob Miller| 11.10.10 @ 4:36PM
Based on his record, Daniels is highly unlikely to behave like a fiscal liberal. However, it's important to consider that a morally corrupt nation will ultimately fail. Somebody, but not necessarily a politician, needs to convince more Americans of that.
Margie| 11.10.10 @ 4:53PM
Ronald Reagan:
"Isn’t our choice really one of up or down? Down through statism, the welfare state, more and more government largesse, accompanied always by more government authority, less individual liberty and ultimately totalitarianism, always advanced as for our own good. The alternative is the dream conceived by our Founding Fathers, up to the ultimate in individual freedom, consistent with an orderly society."
Tim*| 11.10.10 @ 4:55PM
We Tea Party Rebels are urging Our Tea Party Kingmaker & The Senate Point Man Senator Jim DeMint of South Carolina to run for The Presidency in 2012.
The Tea Party Rebellion is inside Congress & The GOP.
Carpe Diem.
Tim*| 11.10.10 @ 5:13PM
"We don't have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven't taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much."
— Ronald Reagan
Eric Cartman| 11.10.10 @ 6:00PM
I disagree with DeMint - to a point. You can be socially liberal as Libertarian's are. This means you don't personally care what people do as long as government isn't forced to pay for it somehow. The problem is that Democrats believe the Government should care about everyone, all the time, no matter what or whose fault it is. Like screwing around? Well, we'll just pay to have that baby killed. Like drugs? No matter, we have a government program to fix you and pay for your food, housing, electric and medicine while you get better. Feel depressed? Here's some SSI cash. Sell bad mortgages to people and garbage investments world wide? Make some bad cars? Got derivatives? Need a loan? Here's some cash and other goodies for you. It's become a hammock, not a safety net. The federal government is California writ large. The Republicans better start the hard medicine soon, or bad, bad things are going to happen.
Margie| 11.10.10 @ 6:09PM
Libertarians want no laws.
Conservatives believe in the Rule of Law.
Libertarianism wants lawlessness in the name of liberty.
Conservatives don't care what you do with your personal life but don't want to have to pay for your mistakes.
Tim*| 11.10.10 @ 6:57PM
There are at least 10 types of Libertarians.
Example:
Fiscal Libertarianism:
Fiscal libertarians (also referred to as Laissez-Faire Capitalists) believe in free trade, low (or nonexistent) taxes, and minimal (or nonexistent) corporate regulation. Most traditional Republicans are moderate Fiscal Libertarians.
Occam's Tool| 11.10.10 @ 7:34PM
As someone who flirted with Libertarianism myself in my 20s, Margie tends to be on the right track. One of the reasons I switched to being a Conservative rather than a Libertarian is that the concept of what constitutes "a good life" is not well laid out in Libertarian doctrine. The older I get, the more social issues matter to me. I suspect Tim* doesn't have kids yet. He will mature when he does. If he doesn't his genes and worldview die with him. Win-Win.
Margie| 11.10.10 @ 8:15PM
Heh,
There's a reason Libertarian is a word and Conservatism is another. They are 2 very different things.
Today's Libertarian party is one of anti-war, anti-Israel, and anything goes crud. (Legalize everything as long as it doesn't hurt anyone Leftism).
It is at odds with conservatism and never the 2 shall meet.
You cannot be a conservative and be anti-war, anti-Israel and for a Leftist country where drugs and every other foul form f supposed "freedom" is legal.
I agree with Jim DeMint and with Ronald Reagan.. they both understand and understood what real freedom means.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."
Ronald Reagan
Tim*| 11.11.10 @ 12:25AM
You're an uninformed Imbecile Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
Neolibertarianism:
Neolibertarians are fiscal libertarians who support a strong military, and believe that the U.S. government should use that military to overthrow dangerous and oppressive regimes. It is their emphasis on military intervention that distinguishes them from paleolibertarians , and gives them reason to make common cause with neoconservatives.
Tim*| 11.11.10 @ 12:31AM
We Tea Party Rebels are urging Our Kingmaker & Senate Point Man Senator Jim DeMint to run for The Presidency in 2012.
Sarah Palin & Jim DeMint endorsed Dr.Rand Paul,Who Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie Badmouthed.
Get Bent Hypocrite Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie
Sandy| 11.11.10 @ 9:25AM
Good Lord Margie you send Tim off the deep end. I've read your comments, and most always find myself agreeing with what you say, and, you say it so well.
It seems to be typical of Libertarians, especially the bastardized Ron Paul type, that when you don't agree with them they immediately resort to personal attacks. They can't argue themselves out of a three sided box.
Again, I enjoy reading your comments. Please stay with it.
Margie| 11.11.10 @ 12:47PM
Thanks, Sandy.
The hatred for me is the hatred this freak has for all Reagan conservatives, really.
If you dare to openly back Israel he'll unleash it, as you can see~ upon one & all.
Sadly, the Libertarian party of today represents his ilk.
Ronald Reagan was pro-Israel and for a strong military defense.
Anyone with half a brain can read his own words. It is mind baffling how these anti-semites actually try and use his own words to claim him for their own justification. But they do!
And nothing can stop them, but since most Americans reject the anti-war, anti-Israel mindset~they will never prosper.
Sure, they can get elected as Republicans like Ron Paul, who is a Libertarian but had to run as a Republican in order to get elected~ but when they start voting along with the Democrats to cut funding of the military, as he is now doing with Barney Frank, (puke), they reveal themselves.. and are rejected.
The America that the Founders formed and that Reagan knew and understood, and what real conservatives in this country want to keep, will not be changed into an isolationist, anti-Israel country, lawless country by this small minority of anarchists and haters.
Margie| 11.11.10 @ 12:49PM
Thanks, Sandy.
The hatred for me is the hatred this freak has for all Reagan conservatives, really.
If you dare to openly back Israel he'll unleash it, as you can see~ upon one & all.
Sadly, the Libertarian party of today represents his ilk.
Ronald Reagan was pro-Israel and for a strong military defense.
Anyone with half a brain can read his own words. It is mind baffling how these anti-semites actually try and use his own words to claim him for their own justification. But they do!
And nothing can stop them, but since most Americans reject the anti-war, anti-Israel mindset~they will never prosper.
Sure, they can get elected as Republicans like Ron Paul, who is a Libertarian but had to run as a Republican in order to get elected~ but when they start voting along with the Democrats to cut funding of the military, as he is now doing with Barney Frank, (puke), they reveal themselves.. and are rejected.
The America that the Founders formed and that Reagan knew and understood, and what real conservatives in this country want to keep, will not be changed into an isolationist, anti-Israel country, lawless country by this small minority of anarchists and haters.
Margie| 11.11.10 @ 1:00PM
Sorry for the double posts. I had to open another browser and use a different e mail in order for this post go go through for some reason.
Tim*| 11.11.10 @ 12:19AM
Obviously.Over-opinionated lecturing Israel Firster,You don't know me or what the hell you're talking about.
Ronald Reagan:
"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."
Tim*| 11.10.10 @ 6:47PM
The Tea Party Is The Ronald Reagan Answer To The Libertarian Party.
Ronald Reagan:
"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.
Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don’t each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are traveling the same path"
We Are Inside The Congress & The GOP Now.
Carpe Diem.
Bubba16123| 11.10.10 @ 7:50PM
Tim, Good post. You and I are on the same page.
All Hail The Stupid Party!| 11.10.10 @ 8:04PM
Jim DeMint is right & Mitch Daniels will not be elected POTUS. Next candidate please.
WayneFarmer| 11.11.10 @ 1:34PM
Next candidate: Herman Cain. Listen to his CPAP speech and hear our next POTUS.
WayneFarmer| 11.11.10 @ 1:34PM
Next candidate: Herman Cain. Listen to his CPAP speech and hear our next POTUS.
Kennon G | 11.11.10 @ 5:24AM
For information on what "lawless" Libertarians are doing, please see: http://www.Libertarian-International.org
Sandy| 11.11.10 @ 9:30AM
Daniels couldn't shine DeMints shoes.
It seems that Mr. Antle is trying to convince his readers that Daniels is the best thing coming down the pike, despite the fact that probably 90% of those commenting have rejected him.
June| 11.11.10 @ 12:19PM
People, you need to realize that libertarianism makes no claim to be a complete philosophy of life. It is strictly a political philosophy that spells out the necessary rules for people of differing beliefs and values to live peacefully side by side. All libertarians need to get the rest of the values they live by from somewhere else. The only thing that all libertarians agree on is that whatever the values you believe you be important for people to live by, that you promote them by example and voluntary persuasion rather than by trying to institute them through the force of government. That is why you can have traditional devout Christians and hard core atheists working side by side both in the Libertarian Party and the broader libertarian movement. Some libertarians are the sort of conservatives that De Mint values, other are not. But they all understand that force is the wrong way to promote their values.
Jacobite| 11.12.10 @ 4:27PM
People of different beliefs and values have never, do not now, and never will live peacefully side by side. Order can be maintained as long as people of one set of values/beliefs are in charge, unquestionably. As soon as the WASPs let go here, you saw the alien groups pop up to overturn American values/beliefs. The ACLU and kindred spirits are quickly making Americans second-class citizens in our own country. But the rule governing human groups is that there is no neutral -- somebody's gonna be in charge, and decide whose values/beliefs trump everybody else's.
Margie| 11.11.10 @ 7:47PM
Real conservatives know that our freedoms come from God. The form of government that our Founding Fathers set up for us is how we want to keep it.
The anti-war, anti-Israel Libertarianism of today is NOT conservative. In fact Libertarians cannot get elected because of this and they run as Republicans. Fiscal responsibility alone does not make a true conservative. Americans reject the Ron Paul mentality which reflects this as it is one that is shared with the Left.
Conservatives don't wish to force anyone to do anything~ but certainly the Libertarianism of today is trying to force conservatives to forfeit the values we've espouse for over 200 years.
That just isn't going to happen.
Wendy| 11.13.10 @ 2:08AM
"A large part of the expansive government is to make up for a dysfunctional society because our culture's falling apart. The family's falling apart."
No, "the family's falling apart" because "expansive government" was set up to help fallen-apart families. It in effect subsidized out-of-wedlock reproduction over the past several decades. Whenever you want more of something, subsidize it. People are getting paid to reproduce willy-nilly, so they do.
And these programs were established in law not in spite of Republicans, but because of them, because conservatives felt deep down in their bones that taking care of "the poor" was the Christian thing to do. Look back on the history of the 20th century and the first decade of the 21st: Whenever a major new entitlement program was proposed, most Republicans eventually answered, "yes, just keep the costs down." The concept of the health insurance mandate did not come from the left. It came from the Heritage Foundation.
Social conservatism is a threat to liberty. It always has been, and it always must be by its very nature. It must be destroyed. And it will be.
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