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The Spectacle Blog
Having pushed back against the conventional wisdom on the Tea Party costing Republicans, I will say this: conservatives ought to seek out higher quality candidates as their standard-bearers. If Joe Miller comes up short in Alaska, he won’t have lost because he was too conservative. He will have lost because of his own defects as a candidate.
This isn’t to argue that conservatives are wrong to pick rough-around-the-edges insurgents over polished RINOs. But to win under the glare of a hostile media, you do need candidates who can withstand scrutiny. A conservative state legislator, if one could have been found, would have still beaten Mike Castle in the Delaware primary and might have stood a marginally better chance in the general election. A conservative with a better get-out-the-vote operation than Sharron Angle would have stood a better chance against Harry Reid. Some primaries might have gone differently as well — think California with someone more effective than Chuck DeVore or Arizona with someone other than JD Hayworth.
I’m not arguing that savvy should replace principles as the primary consideration in determining which candidate to support. And obviously, you must go to war with the conservatives you have rather than the ones you wish you had. O’Donnell and Hayworth were the conservatives willing to run in those races. But I do think candidate quality needs to be a consideration, at least.
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George| 11.4.10 @ 4:33PM
Instead of continuing to harp on the perceived flaws of our conservative candidates, we should be applauding their courage for their willingness to put themselves out there and fight for the principles we claim to hold dear. It takes a great deal of intestinal fortitude to take the abuse a conservative must take when they enter the arena of electoral politics. I, for one, appriciate and admire their courage.
Siegfried X| 11.4.10 @ 5:12PM
"A conservative with a better get-out-the-vote operation than Sharron Angle would have stood a better chance against Harry Reid."
The reason why Angle didn't have good voter turnout is because the NEVADA REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP turned against her. Several of them publicly opposed her, and many of the rest sat on their hands instead of turning out the vote for her.
Likewise Murkowski won because her daddy's political machine supporter her instead of Miller. And the Delaware political machine didn't support O'Donnell.
So what conservatives must do is demand that the Republican political machines support them.
Al Adab| 11.4.10 @ 5:51PM
And how many "votes" did La Raza deliver to Reid? What makes any of us think Angle lost? This is a clear case of intimidation and fraud. The GOP had better study the MN model and recount this till the result is right.
That being said, of course it is incumbant upon Conservatives to find the best, most appealing candidates they can. It is also true that no Conservative will ever get "fair and balanced" treatment by the media. The GOP needs to understand that their funding should go toward all candidates, not just the ones they approve.
gearjammer| 11.4.10 @ 6:00PM
She said the dumb ass things she said. She ran that hideous illegal immigrant add that made a lot of people puke. She didn't inspire independents and pragmatic thinkers to the degree necessary. And that''''''''''''''''''''s the name of that tune. Once again, fill me in-what was so awful about Louder or Tarkanian ? Please explain.
WL| 11.5.10 @ 12:55AM
For one...it's not "Louder"....................................................................................................................................................................................................you are a jerkweed
WL| 11.5.10 @ 12:57AM
But you are right...they would have been better candidates...you just make yourself and idiot when you criticize while making a fool of yourself at the same time. Congrats...you've been exposed as a dimwit.
Curly Smith| 11.4.10 @ 5:25PM
Why should we expect, or even ask for, "perfect" candidates? Was McCain the perfect Republican nominee? By the standards evident in the media he was. And what happened? He lost, he failed, he folded like a cheap Obama placard. But he ran a perfect losing campaign.
Why don't we quit talking about the 3 races that the "Tea Party cost the GOP" and talk instead about the 66 seats that the Tea Party won for the GOP? Oh, right, imperfect Conservatives won the seats so it would have been better if the GOP had only gained the 3 seats that the Tea Party cost them. I guess the GOP leadership will just have to turn down all of that Tea Party tainted power.
Tim*| 11.4.10 @ 5:47PM
Hmmmmm , Interesting !
So, they lost because they lacked Organization, Political Machines & Had A Hostile Media.
No BLAME for The Republican Local, State & National Organizations ?
Aaaand, were any of these Tea Party Candidates Wrong on Their Conservative Views of The Issues?
Let's See Here.
The Tea Party Candidates Won 5 Senate Seats, Dr.Rand Paul in Kentucky, Pat Toomey in Pennsylvania, Marco Rubio in Florida, Mike Lee in Utah & Ron Johnson in Wisconsin & 40 + House Seats.
The Tea Party is now inside Congress & The GOP.
Carpe Diem.
Conservative Bob| 11.4.10 @ 5:48PM
Is it possible you are not asking the right question?
Much has been made this past year regarding a return to our founding principles.
It is clear from our founding documents that our representatives were intended to be citizen legislators, not the professional politician that has evolved to fossilize in the halls of congress.
What can we do to further establish the legitimacy and acceptance of selecting our representatives from among the ranks of the people at large?
Opposition Research the platitude that seeks to add respectability to the practice of digging up filth that may or may not be true to attempt to discredit an opponent at a critical moment in the campaign. Practitioners of this particular art come from the strata of our society that one would scrap from the creases of their shoes to avoid staining the carpet. Vile and despicable are too kind as descriptions.
Look at what was thrown at Nikki Haley, or the Gawker slime attempt on O’Donnell and tell me how it elevated the debate or what vetting process protects against such attacks.
How many times have we asked ourselves, There are over 300,000,000 people in this country and the best we can come up with is John McCain, Bill Clinton. W, Bob Dole John Edwards, Barak Obama, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, Mit Romney? All of these are life time politicians and we could name many more too many more. The question comes over and over is this really the best we can do, of all of the people in this country the very best we can find to represent Harlem is Charlie Rangel? Henry Waxman is the most creative leader in that entire district?
Vetting people so they present the lowest profile for opposition research is validating this contemptible practice. We are keeping the smartest most creative most effective leaders in this country out of even considering running for office because we allow and encourage a practice that seeks to destroy personally and professionally anyone who enters.
Possibly we can improve the “quality” of our conservatives by running more people from the public at large so rather than being unusual they become the norm. Think of who would be the greater object of derision a candidate who answers clearly a question posed in common plain English or the slick polished recitation of a well rehearsed response that is crafted to please everyone that hears it without really saying anything.
What would happen to our republic if it became normal to expect a direct and concise answer from a candidate instead of polished obfuscation as we do now? The” I voted against it before I voted it for it…” BS.
WL| 11.5.10 @ 12:59AM
Sorry CB...nobody really reads posts this long...get yourself a website to publish it...
So I don't even know if I agree with you or not, since you insist on being like the guy selling vacuum cleaners at the football game...
Bruce Berger| 11.5.10 @ 11:22AM
CB,
The reason we don't have citizen-legislators anymore is because running for political office requires a ton of money, which means one has to be extremely wealthy or rely on a party apparatus for financial support. So every once in awhile you get a Ron Johnson from Wisconsin, which is great but he is the exception, rather than the rule.
DRed| 11.4.10 @ 5:55PM
Why would a tea party member vote for a man who thinks it's okay to have active-duty military members moonlighting as private security guards handcuff a journalist?
Tim*| 11.4.10 @ 6:02PM
"Hopfinger, who was holding a small video camera, said he was attempting to draw out a statement from Miller on why he was disciplined by the Fairbanks North Star Borough when Miller worked there as a part-time attorney. After Miller walked away, Hopfinger said, he was surrounded by Miller supporters and security guards and felt threatened, so he pushed one of them away.
Fulton said the man shoved by Hopfinger was not hurt.
Hopfinger said that after he shoved the man away, the guards grabbed him, cuffed his hands behind his back with steel handcuffs and sat him in a chair in the school hallway, Hopfinger said."
WL| 11.5.10 @ 1:01AM
because we secretly would like to put shlubs like you in the bottom of a ship and drop you in the Atlantic. You, the journalists, and the whanks at msnbc don't even register on our meter to get any sympathy...sorry pal...you liberal begging thieves did it to yourself...we just don't care.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.4.10 @ 6:09PM
Ted Kennedy murdered someone and paid a small fine. He was qualified to keep coming back.
John McCain was implicated in the Keating Five and should have resigned. The Republicans in the ruling class still supported him and love him. You see, he reaches across the aisle although no one has ever reached back. He also stood for amnesty for illegal aliens. Isn't he the ideal candidate with few flaws?
The truth is the Republican leadership ignored Christine O'Donnell and outright ridiculed her including Karl Rove. In fact, I thought I saw Karl Rove mention something about her just getting her college degree as an issue. That's rich since Karl Rove doesn't have a college degree.
In Sharon Angle's case the Republican party wrote her off as a kook and gave her no financial support, while spending millions on Carly Fiorna, a non-spectacular candidate. They also did everything they could to gut Joe Miller and spill his guts on the floor.
Wouldn't it make more sense to argue that you need good candidates, but even better would be better leadership in the Republican party?
Al Adab| 11.4.10 @ 6:11PM
Palin for RNC chair, perhaps?
WL| 11.5.10 @ 1:05AM
BHS and Al Adab....congrats, you fellas must be as smart as I am...because I have been thinking the same thing. However, I am just a smidgeon smarter...because I realized a long time ago...that these type of "stories" or "narratives" you refer to are not intended for enlightened folks as we ARE....they are intended for the water heads on our side and theirs.......
Indiana Alex| 11.4.10 @ 6:19PM
So, am i getting from the responses here that a majority of posters are disagreeing with the idea that better candidates would have won some of the races that were lost?
This was the perfect opportunity to make a much bolder statement than was made by taking the Senate as well as the house.
Better candidates would have made this far more likely.
How is this a contraversial statement?
DRed| 11.4.10 @ 6:52PM
Because you're dealing with ideaologues.
Al Adab| 11.4.10 @ 6:59PM
Ideologues? Not unlike President Al Naqis eh?
DRed| 11.4.10 @ 7:05PM
Who is that?
Margie| 11.4.10 @ 10:55PM
LOL.
Conservative Bob| 11.4.10 @ 7:36PM
Alex,
I do not necessarily disagree with the idea getting "better" candidates would improve the results. I am not exactly certain what "better" means.
In the several discussion raised along these lines that I have read it appears that better ultimately means less conservative more professional politician.
I would pose the following to you. Which would send the better message, win a majority in the Senate with mix of more polished professionals including a handful that vote with our core principles 65% of the time or a defendable minority that votes with our core principles 95% of the time. My fear in this specific time window is that the majority described above would position us well to move O’s agenda forward while getting the blame for everything that goes wrong between now and 2012, thus assuring a 2nd term for O.
We destroyed them in the house and likewise State houses across the country. I am not certain we left too many seats on the table. As I said elsewhere, I think some of these less polished more conservative candidates may have cleared the way next time for others to follow in their footsteps.
What exactly does being a “better” candidate mean?
DRed| 11.4.10 @ 7:43PM
How about someone who can effectively communicate their conservative position without literally running away from the press.
Conservative Bob| 11.4.10 @ 8:43PM
Articulate is an important trait in a representative.
Isn’t it interesting, how so many refuse to be interviewed except in very controlled circumstance by friendly press.
Wouldn’t we all be better off if we could field a better quality press? Think how much stronger the Republic would be if the press were made up of people who impartially sought the truth rather than shilling for their ideological soul mates.
We have a desperate lack of honest quality journalists worthy of that title.
Time will hopefully improve this condition as I can think of no other constitutionally acceptable remedy
wodiej| 11.4.10 @ 6:39PM
RNC is a bunch of establishment crooks who don't want to give up the pork and power. We had more Tea Party people win than lose. I don't see anywhere in this article why O'Donnell, Miller or Angle would not have done a fine job in the Senate. Had they got more support, they would have had alot better odds.
George S| 11.4.10 @ 7:17PM
Exactly. You can almost see the next logical sentence to end this article: "... and to find candidates who appeal to [fill in the blank]"
George S| 11.4.10 @ 7:11PM
For a candidate to "withstand scrutiny" he or she would have to be groomed from politics at the get-go. Prep school, Ivy League, law school, congressional aide, clerk, lobbyist, etc., all of which teach how to be a candidate and at the same time leave a streak of clean everywhere you go and everything you write. In other words, an elitist-in-training. That's what got us into this mess. Without that pedigree, a six foot four bearded guy with a mole or a scrawny five foot four, 100 pound weakling would never pass the "high quality" test, would they?
Al Adab| 11.4.10 @ 7:15PM
...and those two did a pretty fair job didn't they?
Conservatives probably should not look to the opposition to define who their candidates should be.
Chuck DeVore | 11.4.10 @ 8:07PM
James, I appreciate your continuing the discussion, but how, may I ask, could I have been "more effective"? I raised $2.5 million in the primary, only $100,000 less than Tom Campbell. Carly Fiorina raised $4.9 million while loaning herself $5.5 million (putting only another $1 million in for the general). To put this into perspective, I raised more than our 2004 nominee, Bill Jones, and the other top three Republican U.S. Senate primary contenders in 2004 put together. Prior to Tom Campbell switching from the governor race to the senate race, the L.A. Times/USC Poll showed me tied with Fiorina at 27 each. Fiorina won largely on the basis of two premises: she could self-fund in the general; and conservatives shouldn't split their vote and risk Tom Campbell's nomination (Palin helped with this narrative). The former turned out not to be true as the NRSC/RNC pumped $8 million into Fiorina's race to overmatch the $1 million from her own checkbook while the latter was a brilliant campaign move from a candidate we expected would run as an establishment moderate.
Returning to your premise, I suppose I could have remained in business six years longer, forgoing my seasoning as a state assemblyman representing 500,000 people so as to be a self-funder too.
El John| 11.4.10 @ 8:10PM
I feel like we are litigating the Godwater race all over again. Its real simple. It makes no difference how principled a candidate is, if they are fatally flawed (O'Donnel), prone to embarassing gaffes (Angle), cant defend their principles in a debate (Buck), or have terrible political instincts (Palin, Joe Miller). These folks lost seats that should have been held by better conservative candidates . Our side needs to recruit better candidates, period.
Losing those 3 senate seats is a big blow to the conservative movement. The group grope with mr 100% purity Demint needs to end and the grownup, intelligent conservatives need to take our movemenet back.
How any of you could think Christine Odonnel - a nice lady living off her campaign account for 2 years - was equipped to win a statewide election shows just how blind some people are to REALITY. She cant hold a job, much less win a US Senate seat.
I hope people learned lessons on Tuesday night. If not, we will all be backbenchers on the Harry Reid Senate train for 10 more years.
Tim*| 11.4.10 @ 8:58PM
Horsecrap, RINO-CINO Apologist AgendaBoy.
Christine O'Donnell beat The 9 term Congressman &Former; Governor of Delaware in The Republican Primary RINO-CINO Mike Castle .
Dr.Rand Paul won a Senate Seat in The Commonwealth of Kentucky despite Gaffes. So did Democrat Blumenthal in Connecticutt with The Vietnam Flatassed repeated Lies.
Where was Christine O'Donnell Conservatively wrong on The Issues.
The Liberal Media gendists raked O'Donnell when they wouldn't rake Obama on his academic failure to make honors at either Occidental or Columbia and yet showed up at Harvard, hiding his records from the public or investigate and The same Liberal Media didn't slather Larry Sinclair's claimed Obama Limousine Escapades across the Media.
Who Ya Kiddin' RINO-CINO Apologist.
The Tea Party Candidates Won 5 Senate Seats, Dr.Rand Paul in Kentucky, Pat Toomey in Pennsylvania, Marco Rubio in Florida, Mike Lee in Utah & Ron Johnson in Wisconsin & 40 + House Seats.
We Tea Party Rebels are urging Our Kingmaker & The Senate Point Man Jim DeMint to run for The Presidency in 2012.
If RINO-CINO's Want a War with The Tea Party ,Let It Be Here & Now.
The Tea Party Rebellionis inside Congress & The GOP & We're Purging more RINO-CINO's in 2012.
Carpe Diem.
Christopher Holland| 11.4.10 @ 9:06PM
Sharon Angle and Christine ODonnell lost, but they sure took a lot of heat off other candidates who did get up. I think the two ladies did a good job for conservatives, they took on the enemy in their own heartland and you can not win wars unless that is done. The media spent so much time throwing mud at these two they did not notice the excellent candidates who got up elsewhere - Marco Rubio, Allen West, Susanah Martinez to name only a few. It takes guts to changes things and ODonnell and Angle had guts. Give them credit for doing a good job when the odds were against them.
Conservative Bob| 11.4.10 @ 9:18PM
John
Hard to say as it is extremely difficult to get a clear picture of her as so many either invested in extolling her virtues or savaging her incompetence.
I guess I am naive in that I thought rather than snipe and backstab that once a primary is over and a candidate is selected the party would provide a level of assistance.
Yes before you ask I agree that they must allocate scarce resources to the greatest advantage however it seems to me that the decision as to who to support had more to do with where someone was on the political spectrum and relationship to the leadership elites than ability to win a race.
Some of these folks that lost could have, with more support have won.
Let me turn your question slightly, how many of the 60 plus seats that we won in the house, Governors races, state legislatures could have been won without the passion, enthusiasm, money and hard work of the grass roots Tea Party conservatives?
I dare say there would be substantially less to celebrate today than is the case.
So if by “the grownup, intelligent conservatives need to take our movemenet back” you mean the party wants our money, efforts and vote, but we should leave the serious work to the professionals. I say that day is past as the professional delivered the Republic to the abyss we are trying to dig out of those same wise professional gave us the go along to get along and ultimately BHO and his super majorities.
J.D. Hayworth| 11.5.10 @ 12:00AM
James:
You prompted Brother DeVore to comment...and I am following his lead. Essentially, I'll make the same point. Campaign Finance Reports indicate that Sen. McCain spent more than any other sitting Senator to keep his job; $32.8 million through Mid-October, with over $25 million used against me in the GOP Primary. Let me not-so-humbly suggest that not even Mother Teresa could withstand the negative attacks $25 mil would bankroll...and let me be the first to admit I'm no Mother Teresa!
Did I make some mistakes? Sure...and so did my opponent...but its a lot easier to be called a "genius" when you can spend $25 million...and to be described as "flawed" when you only raise about ten percent of what the incumbent can spend, and you have the added challenge of the Washington Conservative "Establishment" refusing to back your efforts.
Margie| 11.5.10 @ 12:55AM
Antle is a "Paleo" conservative.. so take it all with a grain of salt. Or maybe two.
Look it up.
It ain't the kind of conservatism we regular folk are.
it's based on non-interventionism (anti-war) and casts out all others~that's the basic gist of it. It's a lot like Libertarianism.
Anti-war.
Anti-Israel.
So, like Billy Boy Clinton used to say~
"It depends on your definition of conservatism."
J.D. Hayworth and Chuck Devore are fine candidates and would have made darn fine senators. Wish we had you where we are.
Tim*| 11.5.10 @ 8:49AM
There ain't no 'WE" Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
You never supported J.D.Hayworth over your mancrush John McCain & Ya didn't back Our Tea Party's Chuck Devore.
Get Bent!
You're A NeoCon Fraud Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
The Tea Party Rebellion is now inside Congress & The GOP .
Carpe Diem.
Margie| 11.5.10 @ 10:13AM
Heh, you lying scumbag. You're slandering me again.
I support all conservatives, just not your Ron Paul types.
This proves what a lying little creep you are.
Liars go to Hell.
I hope you are prepared!
Tim*| 11.5.10 @ 10:24AM
Horsecrap Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
You didn't support J.D.Hayworth or Chuck DeVore. Ya Lyin' Sack of Shit.
Aaaand, Sarah Palin & Our Tea Party Kingmaker Jim DeMint Endorse Our New Tea Party Senaror Dr.Rand Paul.
Stick That NeoCon RINO-CINO Broad.
Margie| 11.5.10 @ 10:22AM
Folks,
This is the kind of man that the Pauls attract. Liars, cheats and slanderers.
Tell the truth about them and they react like vile snakes.
Ken (Old Tex)~ you said to let you deal with Timmy.*
Well well well, what do you think about this last post of his filled with lies?
You have spoken to me and my husband.
You know who we both are.
You know that I am a Christian conservative and I back all conservatives. Just not Timmy*s ilk!
Tim*| 11.5.10 @ 10:30AM
Get Bent NeoCon RINO-CINO Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
You're an Anti-Catholic, Anti-Every Religion & Anti- Every Religious Group that doesn't Cower & Asskiss Your Personal Crazy Lady Apocalyptic Agenda.
We Tea Party Rebels are inside Congress & The GOP now.
Carpe Diem.
Margie| 11.5.10 @ 10:38AM
I support every and ALL conservatives, just not anti-war and anti Israel types.
Too bad you don't like it.
You can curse and lie all you want, it matters not to God.
You and your ilk will NEVER succeed any farther than where you are now as long as you are same.
The TEA party conservatives are conservatives who back Israel as a friend and ally and the anti-war faction which you are part of can go ahead and vote for conservative Republicans and we welcome your votes but let it be known that the TEA party caucus began by Michelle Bachmann in the House of Reps has began a ill that states they back Israel's right to go to war if they choose to.
THIS is what you cannot stand! So rail on Timmy* all you want.
The Truth always wins.
Tim*| 11.5.10 @ 10:55AM
You were AWOL from supporting Our Tea Party Candidates Ya Lyin' Apocalyptic Crank Lady Victor-Margie.
Aaaand, Anti-Catholic Victor-Margie You Criticized Our Support for Tea Party Candidate Christine O'Donnell because We Are Catholics. Wellllll ! So is Our Tea Party Pennsylvania Senator Pat Toomey, & Our Tea Party Florida Senator Marco Rubio.
By The Way, Our Tea Party Senator From Utah, Mike Lee is a Mormon & Our Tea Party Senator from Wisconsin is a Lutheran.
Lay Off Their Religious Beliefs Too Religious Bigot Broad.
Ya couldn't stand it when Sarah Palin & Jim DeMint Endorsed Our Tea Party Candidate Dr.Rand Paul.
Tough !
Live With It !
WeTea Party Rebela are now inside Congress & The GOP.
Carpe Diem.
Margie| 11.5.10 @ 10:42AM
Should read Has began a bill backing Israel's right to go to war with Iran if they choose to.
The TEA party caucus is aware of the Libertarian anti-Israel anti-war faction trying to take it over and is not in agreement with it.
http://thecable.foreignpolicy......ck_on_iran
Tim*| 11.5.10 @ 11:21AM
You Are An Obsessed NeoCon Israel Firster Apocalyptic Nut Bag Victor-Margie
The Israel Issue is Not A Tea Party Issue. Read Our Mission Statement & Core Values Statement.
Congressman Louie Gohmert is a member of the newly-formed Tea Party caucus in the House as are several other co-sponsors of H.Res. 1553. Gohmert addressed suggestions that this bill is the Tea Party’s foray into foreign policy, saying, “The resolution has nothing to do with the Tea Party caucus, but does have everything to do with national and international security and stability."
The Tea Party Rebellion is now inside Congress & The GOP.
Carpe Diem.
Margie| 11.5.10 @ 11:41AM
Yep somebody's obsessed alright, but it isn't me.
You're still lying about me scumbag.
I was not absent in backing TEA party candidates but very present for the past two years I've been posting here.
Anyone can do a search here as there is a search feature and they can just type in my name.
Are you so foolishly obsessed that you don't realize this?
You ought to practice what you preach!
You refused to vote for McCain/Palin and stated that you wrote in your brother-in-law on the ballot because you so hate John McCain. Not even Sarah Palin as V.P. was good enough for you!
What a lying hypocrite you are!
John McCain wasn't my choice for nominee and I've posted it many times (mostly to ward off your perverted attacks on me for accusing me of being a traitor for voting for him).
As a true conservative I wanted Fred Thompson to be the nominee but he dropped out of the race. Thus I voted for McCain/Palin~ to a lunatic like you that was enough reason for you to accuse me of being "A traitor to conservatism."
No~ I'm a traitor to YOUR BRAND of conservatism. One that is hateful and devious. One that backs such despicable characters as Adam Kokesh and believes in the anti-war and anti-Israel philosophy of the Lew Rockwell gang.
You accuse me with vile spewings and cursings daily because I expose you for what you really are.
A BLAME AMERICA FIRSTER!
Like I said~ you and your phoney ilk can not succeed because America loves freedom and she needs a strong military defense, and she loves to back her allies, one of which is Israel.
That makes me an AMERICA FIRSTER.
Stick that in your crack pipe and toke it, baby.
Margie| 11.5.10 @ 12:33PM
Michele Bachmann on Israel:
"I am convinced in my heart and in my mind that if the United States fails to stand with Israel, that is the end of the United States . . . [W]e have to show that we are inextricably entwined, that as a nation we have been blessed because of our relationship with Israel, and if we reject Israel, then there is a curse that comes into play. And my husband and I are both Christians, and we believe very strongly the verse from Genesis [Genesis 12:3], we believe very strongly that nations also receive blessings as they bless Israel. It is a strong and beautiful principle.
Right now in my own private Bible time, I am working through Isaiah . . . and there is continually a coming back to what God gave to Israel initially, which was the Torah and the Ten Commandments, and I have a wonderful quote from John Adams that if you will indulge me [while I find it] . . . [from his February 16, 1809 letter to François Adriaan van der Kemp]:
I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.
. . . So that is a very long way to answer your question, but I believe that an explicit statement from us about our support for Israel as tied to American security, we would do well to do that."
Oooh that Israel Firster! LOL.
Ken (Old Texican)| 11.5.10 @ 3:30PM
Margie, say hi to Vick for me.
If I were to waste the breath to help Tim*.....
I would merely suggest to him that he go out, get drunk, and be somebody...somewhere else.
He sounds like every nasty runty spoiled brat we all remember from fifth grade, and you dear lady let him bait you.
Do you remember the old song: "I love to hit myself in the head, 'cause it feels so good when I stop" ?
...so stop already.
Look, Margie, the guy is not old enough to vote, heh, I don't care how old he is. Ignore him.
He can crouch in anonymity and stay all safe and warm. Stop and think about it. If he said those things to you in my presence..heh...heh...or in Vick's presence, his hiney would be a hump between his shoulder-blades. (Picture that and grin).
In the fifth grade, the Tims* hid behind big dumb inarticulate bullies. Today they hide behind their computers.
Margie, the next time he tempts you...please just copy paste my post here
Margie| 11.5.10 @ 9:04PM
Heh, will do Kemosabe.
:^)
But p.s. I let the snake keep exposing himself. Yes he uses me to do it, but isn't it a wonderful education for all the world to see?
There's the two verses in the Bible"
One says: "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." Prov. 26:4.
Then there's another one: "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes." Prov. 26:5.
Discernment is the key.
Like a wise man I know once said, "Let all my mistakes fall on.. I tried too hard."
I do try.
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Bob Miller| 11.5.10 @ 8:16AM
Prospective candidates should be put through some intensive training, not to take away their principled approach, but to drill them in the practicalities of public and media campaigning, responding to attacks, clarifying positions, not sounding fanatical...
irish19| 11.5.10 @ 9:40AM
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. Keep in mind that the Tea Party did not exist two years ago. In its first year, it managed to back a whole lot of winning candidates. Were mistakes made? Of course. Now, however, Tea Partiers are a bit more seasoned. Look for next cycle's candidates to be more like Allen West or Adam Kinzinger and less like Miller.
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