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The Spectacle Blog
One year after the most politically significant facebook post of all time, Avik Roy has penned the definitive defense of conservatives’ wariness about “death panels.” From his piece:
The attack on Sarah Palin has been: “Palin is lying. There is nothing in this bill that is a death panel” (death panel being defined as a panel of bureaucrats who decides whether or not you can continue receiving care). But this is exactly what happens in Britain. Those who are in their last years of lives are expected to do their part for the national budget, which is to die inexpensively. That is to say, if Palin had been born 60 years earlier, and made the same criticisms of the NHS at its founding, she would have disparaged as a paranoid lunatic demagogue. “Sarah, old girl, there’s no death pansies, or panzers, or panels around here. The bill clearly states: ‘Her Majesty’s funds shall not be used to ration care for the sick.’ After the war, we’re done with all that rationing nonsense!”
However, Britain discovered that it wasn’t that simple.
I recommend reading the whole thing.
View all comments (22) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Joseph Lawler
http://spectator.org/blog/2010/08/27/death-panels
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Bill| 8.27.10 @ 1:33PM
Imagine Liberals reactions if an insurance comapany was involved in end of life counseling. They would blow a gasket. This is because #1, Liberals believe in government, and #2, they fail to realize that these behaviours are government's attempt to control costs, which is what an insurance company would be focused on. Can you be for one and against the other?
Alan Brooks| 8.27.10 @ 8:43PM
Frankly, all panels are death panels.. it's all Who Whom, as the Russians say. I your grand[arents can get a few thousand a month (sometimes even more) in benefits from the state, they can possibly live a year or two longer.
Curly Smith| 8.27.10 @ 1:59PM
I wonder when AARP will send the bumper sticker "Die. Die you greedy geezers. Die for the children." I suspect it will be immediately after Congress passes legislation allowing AARP to confiscate the estates of their members who've done their last civic duty. After all, somebody has to be in charge of redistributing the assets that the greedy geezers stole from the rightful owners.
Of course I also wonder why AARP still has members given their early, frequent, vocal, strident and aggressive support of Obama and his lack of care plan.
God on Earth| 8.27.10 @ 2:30PM
Only those with incomes over 5 million should be given life saving medical care after 70.
The rest are a burden on society, thus we can take the money and property of those under 5 million,after they reach 70,and have died naturally, and give it to The American Enterprise Institute, and other such great contributors to aristocratic Americans.
Alan Brooks| 8.27.10 @ 8:46PM
Both you and Curly are right on target. But everyone thinks their parents deserve help, and others don't.
"mister, My Dad was in the Navy for six years and..."
Tom Richardson| 9.27.10 @ 12:39PM
Really??? You're saying the life of someone who makes more money than someone else is worth more? You're saying we should draw a line on whose lives should be saved based on their income?! That's disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself. I thought everyone was equal in this country, yet you're saying they're not. If you were patriotic, you'd support health care for everyone, not for a select few.
Tom Richardson| 9.27.10 @ 12:41PM
And if you're not in support of health care for everyone, you can leave America. It's the way America's heading, and if you don't love it, leave.
martin j smith| 8.27.10 @ 3:32PM
If the Socialists scream and don't like what they are called, do it again and again and again--but in a nice tone of voice and a smile. Besides, they call us whatever they want anyway.
Oldefarte| 8.27.10 @ 4:16PM
The NAME [call it death panels or whatever] is unimportant. The essential point is that this healthcare legislation was, is, and forever will be WELFARECARE. It's purpose was not to lower/reduce medical care costs, but solely to ADD 30 MILLION RECIPIENTS TO THE HEALTHCARE ROLLS, MOSTLY AT TAXPAYERS EXPENSE. Those 30 million can be broken down into two classes, those who couldn't afford and those who could afford [but chose not to] the costs of health insurance. The fomer will end up in Medicaid, which is totally funded by taxpayers; while the latter will [depending upon their incomes] be placed into Obamacare or Medicaid. The present state of Medicare will deminish, since it's financial government funding will be shifted towards Obamacare, and Medicare's recipients will suffer accordingly. Since same PAID FOR [through their payroll deductions throughout their lifetimes, prior to retirement] this/their Medicare coverage, its destruction/deterioration represents a theft by Obama/Democrats of what they have already PAID FOR, in order for these politicians to fund their now enacted WELFARECARE. Some call these DEATH PANELS.....I call it BURGLARY! This all is [or will be] hopefully irrelevant if and when the American public/voters go to the polls in November and vote these crooks out of office!!!!!
Alan Brooks| 8.27.10 @ 8:49PM
Read over again carefully what Martin and 'God On Earth' wrote, Oldefarte. But you wont, much.
Alan Brooks| 8.27.10 @ 8:53PM
...er, I mean, Curly, not Martin.
But please all say you aren't libertarians. A libertarian involved with justice is like a fox being involved with a chicken coop.
Dr. Ron Polland | 8.27.10 @ 5:43PM
The only boo-boo Sarah made in her statement was saying that the "death panel" was a part of the Health Care Bill. It was actually snuck into the Stimulus Bill by the gangster Democrats in Washington. Had she made that statement, and added that all of Obama's czars and advisors are all euthenasia proponents - some, like Cass Sunstein and Rahm Emanuel are out-and-out eugenicists who would have terminated Trig Palin either before or after birth.
Mzk1| 8.29.10 @ 6:06AM
Alan is missing the point. Yes, all panels are death panels. But a person not hooked on dependence will find some way to keep Dad alive. Take your savings, mortgage the house, beg door-to-door, whatever it takes. According to the article, if you try this in Britain, you pay a severe price.
Go to any synagogue during a week-day morning service, and you will see people from Socialized medicine coutries collecting for operations. When the U.S. system is socialized, where will Americans go?
If Obama really cared to deal with the situation, he would have required a minimum catastrophic plan, not an exepnsive health savings plan
John DuBose| 8.29.10 @ 12:21PM
I have watched many leftist commentators saying that there are no death pannels in the health care bill. I am sure that nowhere in the bill does it say something like "this pannel decides who dies". But by investing a pannel with the power to direct care according to their own agenda, there will always be some types of care that the government controled system will not provide. This is indirectly a death pannel.
But those of us who are honest must admit that absent such pannels ( invested with a lot of power and a willingness to use it on behalf of the poor ), folks with ample financial resources are less likely to die early than those without.
It is a tough world out there.
Chuckles| 10.19.10 @ 8:43PM
Bravo. Well said.
S Rubicon| 8.31.10 @ 2:46PM
Making the decisions on final care already happen. Yet many of those decisions are made by family & their attending Doctors, w/ insurance companies looming in the background. ObamaCare takes those choices & relegates those final decisions or choices, to federal bureaucrats. That federal bureaucrats will be establishing standards of care & limitations on the types & amount of care, what we have "are" death panels. Bureaucrats will make choices based on costs & the "value" of the patients, & will make the decisions for account # XXXX, not for John, Mary, Abdul, or Chen.
Isn't it interesting that we will have such panels, just as many of America's boomer children are about to retire & become dependent on Medicare? Some are referring to this new ObamaCare policy as "eldercide." Just as many think that sonogram that confirms your expected child may have a birth defect & should therefore be 'aborted', those same folks want a system to enable them to hasten the exit of those troubling old folk. After all, now these caregivers can say, "it wasn't my choice, the government said you have to die!"
The whole massively complex ObamaCare system being created will become a serious drag on America's economy & on her national character.
Rather than reform elements of health care delivery that have or are problems, a new system of health care delivery has been created. The baby was thrown out w/ the bathwater. And it was intentional to create a system to cause private health insurance to become far too costly & crash that entire system so a national system like Britain's could be provided to 'save the day!'
ObamaCare is legislation that enables those who love big government, to destroy another segment of our free market system. The free market system was crippled by socialist policies like the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), that forced our financial system to abandon practical policies on loans & make loans to those who simply would never be able to meet their loan obligations. Worse is, the CRA loan programs knew upfront that when those loans defaulted, taxpayers would get stuck footing the bill. This is like telling the public your children will be held accountable for the loans Mom & Dad take out that are unpaid after they die. Or Mom & Dad are accountable for the loans their 20 year old takes out while in college. Perhaps we can re-establish 'debtors prisons?'
Britain, Sweden, & many other European nations are currently undergoing a transformation. National health care systems are being dismantled. Free market options are being created. And, many of those nations are tearing down their burdensome tax systems that have so crushed economic vitality.
Sarah was correct on this one!
Tom Richardson| 9.27.10 @ 2:58PM
Why must this hatred continue? ObamaCare - am I right in assuming that's being used as an insult? The majority of the people in this country voted for Obama, so let's assume that every time someone uses the word ObamaCare, they are praising Obama for his stance on the health care debate.
K. Myers| 9.28.10 @ 11:52PM
Death panels began when abortion was legitimatized, and will end when abortion ends. This system works and fails based on the numbers; no vigorous birth rate, and attrition kills all benefits, programs and beneficiaries. Thousands of years ago, a prophet spoke of us (he called us, symbolically, Judah, meaning Praise) and said because of our arrogance, we'd fail like this: no child, no birth, no conception. Sound familiar? And we'd gain the turnaround when the hearts of the fathers turn back to their children ... and it MUST be the fathers, because the women aren't going to back off abortion for anyone or anything, feeling it's their turn now, and everyone else can go fish! So, grab the issue by the roots (abortion) and bring our nation back to life.
Tonny | 10.29.10 @ 11:46AM
Just a fact. Im from Denmark and we do not have death panels here. I work as a nurse... there are not many health insurance companies in Denmark because all health care is free. and the death decission is made by the sick or the family...not by some panel in the state... So when people come with stupid comments about death panels in Denmark....I have to say...omg not thrustworthy politicians you guys have to vote on.....