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Re: Jeff Lord, John Tabin, and Phil Klein

By on 7.26.10 @ 1:53PM

Let me preface this by saying that I think Jeff Lord is usually fantastic. He does absolutely wonderful work, and he is a prince of a guy. But I must say that I agree with Phil Klein and John Tabin that Jeff’s column today is…. well…. off base. If a murder is not a “lynching,” it is still a murder. And I also find it odd to somehow tie Richard Russell into it all. Just because Russell and Black were racists who otherwise were political lefties doesn’t mean there weren’t powerful people who were racists and political conservatives. I just don’t get Jeff’s point, sorry to say. A murder is murder is a murder and a racist is a racist is a racist. Evil is evil, and it is for all intents and purposes indivisible. Of all the things to criticize Ms. Sherrod for, this is not one of them. With all due respect.

View all comments (31) |

Dixie Pixie| 7.26.10 @ 3:37PM

Gentlemen, you are splitting rhetorical hairs for no reason.

“Lynching” is a deliberate act to deprive a person of his life by hanging.
“Beating to Death” is a different act as a death can occur accidentally and counter to the intent of the perpetrators.

In the case of --Screws vs United States-- The Supreme Court found the lower courts erred in not considering the intent of the defendants to deprive Bobby Hall of his life.

The Supreme Court also noted the defendants were operating under the color of law.
While the Court deftly avoided the issue of whether giving a prisoner a beating is a proper police procedure, the Supreme Court did not rule it out. Thus it is unclear whether a crime occurred however unfortunate the outcome for Bobby Hall. As a result the Supreme Court kicked the case to the lower courts to resolve the issue.

By deliberately using the more inflammatory term “Lynching” Shirley Sherrod was trying to magnify the incident for rhetorical effect. But why should any one be surprised by this. Democratic Party operatives have been using hyperbolic rhetoric for decades. Of course Sherrod was lying. The Democratic Party is renowned for it.

Maeve| 7.26.10 @ 3:39PM

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Definitions of lynching:

* putting a person to death by mob action without due process of law
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Chris| 7.30.10 @ 5:59PM

You are completely wrong about the terms "lynching" and "color of law," and that has led you to an absurd conclusion.

Maeve| 7.26.10 @ 3:37PM

A "lynching" is any extrajudicial killing. Sherrod was absolutely truthful and Jeff Lord lied. It may be simple stupidity but it is still a lie. Buy a dictionary or at least googleisyourfriend!

Dixie Pixie| 7.26.10 @ 4:15PM

My Dear Maeve,
Please read the case – Screws vs United States – thoughtfully linked by the Jeffery Lords article.

Why yes I do know the difference between a “Lynching” and “Excessive Police Action”
Down here in the Deep South both are in the painful memory’s of living men.

Besides by your definition mob action is required. In this case a “mob” was not present. Nor did a death by hanging occurred. “Lynching” requires such a act.

As to your final point, the Supreme Court found the defendants were operating as the “due process of Law”. That was the one of the reasons the case was kicked back to the lower courts to resolve.

Maeve – Don't let the demagoguery of the Democrats lead you astray.
The Democrats love to do that.
That is how the Democrats maintain their power.
Thankfully the Democrats have stopped actual “Lynching” for political effect.

Nate| 7.26.10 @ 10:14PM

Dixie --

A lynching is an extra-judicial, violent infliction of capital punishment. It needn't involve a mob -- a single man can lynch someone -- and it needn't involve cowards dressed in white sheets. Mr. Lord made a whopper of a mistake here. It's not such a bad thing to make a mistake, but one shudders to think of what might have motivated it.

Dixie Pixie| 7.26.10 @ 10:48PM

Nate,
You missed several key points in the case –Screws vs United States – .

For example, Bobby Hall was beaten to death by duly uniformed officers of the court in performance of their duties. He was not hung until dead as required by the definition of “Lynching”.
Please reread the case. It is web-linked in the main article.

Angus Johnston | 7.27.10 @ 12:45AM

The definition of lynching provided in the federal bill that Lord discussed makes no mention of hanging. It refers instead to "an assemblage composed of three or more persons acting in concert for the purpose of depriving any person of his life without authority of law as a punishment for or to prevent the commission of some actual or supposed public offense."

Lord clearly didn't bother to read the law.

JP| 7.26.10 @ 3:50PM

The better question these many hours later is why the article, demonstrably misleading (and, frankly, sick) still leads the website front page. Bastards.

Nate| 7.26.10 @ 10:15PM

Why?

Because it serves the reactionary ideological program of assuring white Americans that the REAL problem of racism is the black community. Same old story as it ever was.

Ken (Old Texican)| 7.26.10 @ 4:22PM

Well Folks,
It is another of my quiet Sunday thoughts. I guess you could say I had another one of them there “epiphanies” this morning while reading an article over at American Thinker.
(http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/07/whos_watching_big_brother.html )

I am a proud Tea Party supporter…”roll back government intrusion…taxed enough already…”
But,
Those of us who are Christians MUST remember that God Himself is literally watching over our shoulders. He will either bless our actions…or not….and He knows our innermost heart.

It finally dawned on me this morning… “WE ARE ENGAGED IN A BATTLE OF WE FALLIBLES AGAINST EVIL”. I am defining “Evil” in precisely the way the Bible defines it. (Turning one’s back on our Creator.)
As Quin suggested in his blog Friday… Obama and crew have literally declared war on Louisiana. I added Texas and Oklahoma and Arizona to the list, but I must add all of you “God-acknowledging “ folks reading this to the list.

Folks, I no longer call myself a “CONSERVATIVE”. I don’t want to conserve what our country has become. Yeah yeah, the term has been coined …and we know what it means… to each of us …… more or less. Nevertheless, until I can come up with a better label for me, I shall just call myself an “ORIGINALIST”; in the sense of the original founding principle of our country in the Declaration of Independence “…… endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness.”

And again “….. all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. “”).

Folks, in my heart of hearts, I believe we are rapidly approaching that point of “absolute Despotism” referred to in our Original Declaration. That Declaration ushered in our REVOLUTION BEGUN IN 1776. In the Spanish language then… “Viva La Revolution!” (long live the revolution!)

As I see it, we have literally been in the midst of a “counter-revolution” for many years. The forces of evil, (defined above), are now arrayed against us…and our posterity. Think about it a moment before discarding this question: “What in the world could align our present ruling class with Islam?”

Allies of convenience?

My answer is simply this. “Our ruling class… and Islam…and the communists… have turned their back on our Creator, and for precisely the same Object; to “reduce (us) under absolute despotism.” ……AND…ultimately mass murder unless we “submit”? (The exact English term for “Islam”, interestingly enough).
So,
I think we must re-define “The War”. ….. We have all read endless yakkity yack about our “culture war.” Bull-corn!!!!!! We are at war with Evil, with a capital E.

“”…That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.””

It seems to me that we are rapidly approaching the point where each of us must decide to either “submit”….. or….. withdraw our consent to be governed by these kinds of people.
Please do not be distracted.

Dixie Pixie| 7.26.10 @ 5:09PM

Greetings Ken

Thank You for venting your most heartfelt thoughts.
Your sudden realization of Liberalism as Evil was quite thoughtfully written.

However what in the name of the Sainted Sam Houston does your reply have to do with the Sherrod controversy and the sudden Lord, Tabin, Klein and Hillyer disagreement.

My contention is that Jeffery Lord was right in that Sherrod lied. However it was on a common and usual Democratic Party rhetorical tactic. It certainly not a cause for a intra-conservative controversy.

Ken (Old Texican)| 7.26.10 @ 7:05PM

Dixie Pixie,
heh...several hundred thousand very bright folks read these comments every day.

TAS has opted to allow open comments.

I have shamelessly utilized the TAS comments section to express my deepest fears and convictions.

I honestly think we are at a point of civil war with millions of deaths. I am trying my best to help us avoid that.

I have been writing here for almost two years. I've gotten a couple of nice letters...and a free book from the editors to say thank you for my contributions.

Dixie, did you read Quin's blog about "Peeps"?

Dixie Pixie| 7.26.10 @ 9:17PM

Greetings Ken

Why yes I did read your excellence reply in “Peeps”
And I do agree Obama is trying to hammer the Southern economy in general and the oil / energy sector in particular. He is doing this for both personal and ideological reasons. What is even worse, is the shutdown of all new production in the Gulf is certain to drive any further oil demand to the Saudis. Thus the Jihadists will gain additional funding from the Saudis. As a geopolitical strategy, this is beyond stupid.

As for your view the US is looking into the abyss of a Second Civil War, I respectfully disagree.
The population is not at the sustained level of anger necessary to sustain a civil war. Not yet.

One crucial indicator is the willingness of the TEA Party personal to disobey the laws and statutes of the ruling government. If the people respect and honor the laws that are created by, and sustain the Ruling Elite, then a successful revolt is impossible.

The TEA Party's are nowhere near the point where the rejection of the laws of the Elite is commonplace. The TEA Party's are light-years away from openly battling Liberalism on the streets.
So a 2nd Civil War is not even close. But give Obama more rope to hang himself and he may drive the people to revolt.

However a Argentina style Dirty War of the Elites against the US population is possible. If the Ruling Elite feels so threatened as to fear the people, they can lash out against the people in a covert dirty war. The key indicator is if prominent conservative people start disappearing, then it time to go the foxholes.

My personal viewpoint is we are seeing the end of America's First Golden Age. After all you never know what is missing until it is gone. US Global Supremacy will be the same way. The “End of History” theory was nonsense, but it was the highpoint of American history. Try to enjoy the thought.

Please, Please, Please try to stay close to the theme of the meme.

Ken (Old Texican)| 7.27.10 @ 7:49AM

Dixie Pixie,

You may not have quite realized it yet, but commenters here provide many sparks for future columns by the fine authors who contribute here at TAS as well as American Thinker...and NRO.

As often as these columnists are called on to zero into a "meme"...sometimes they appreciate a spark from one of us in their audience.

Even Rush took some of our comments on to the air while discussing the Codevilla article. I was deeply honored that I could contribute.

As you will note, I very seldom get off track arguing with our resident stupids here. Zero sum game in my mind. So just forgive my occasional Sunday musings, OK.

Dixie Pixie| 7.27.10 @ 10:21AM

Done and Done.
Have a nice day and keep those posts coming.

John Navratil| 7.26.10 @ 5:49PM

I cannot disagree with a single word. I don't know if you ever look at http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/ but he has opined that a revolution may be brewing, its form may not be as in 1776, and the results may not turn out well. At the time, I felt a bit more positive about events and suggested that this time and place may was conducive to a non-violent push-back of progressivism. I am not so sanguine at the moment. The last time I was so frustrated with government, Jimmy Carter was president. He was not as inept as this one and not nearly as anti-U.S.

November will be a watershed event. Which way will we go?

Quartermaster| 7.26.10 @ 8:53PM

1774-1783 was not really a revolution, but a colonial revolt against and overbearing mother country. What we know as revolutions, beginning with the hideous French Revolution, results in little more than death and highly negative political changes. We've seen that in our own lifetimes with the various communist revolutions in Asia and South America.

What is brewing in our country is a Civil War. This country ahs excaped Civil War until now (1861-1865 was NOT a Civil War, but a war of conquest against another country that had declared its independence just as the original 13 had done against a great Britain that tried to put it down by conquering the former colonials). Civil wars begin with anarchy as the sides shake down into true opposing forces trying to put the other down. Eventually, it becomes a war for territory.

In our case, the winner will be determined by how the Military comes down. Will it defend a government that has repeatedly shorted it and wasted the lives of the troops in policy wars, or will it return to its roots in the people and turn against the self anointed ruling class? That question will be answered by the junior officers, and NCOs. Not the Generals and Admirals.

But, no matter how it works out, the US will cease to exist and be replaced by groups of states, or a monolithic tyranny.

kingsmill| 7.26.10 @ 4:42PM

Jeff Lord is correct.

Sad to see Beltway "conservatives" wrasslin with each other to get on the "right" side of Leftist rhetoric.

Margie| 7.26.10 @ 5:55PM

Quin,

Don't you get where Jeff Lord's coming from? The point is that by her using the word lynching it is to stir (conjure) up the whole racist thing. You know, the Left never throws away a good opportunity for that! That's my opinion and now I'm going to drop it.

To Ken,
Great post wonderfully written, and whatever you call yourself ~ an Originalsit is excellent in my opinion, and I'm in agreement with what you said.
God bless.

Bill Brock - Chicago| 7.27.10 @ 9:38PM

Ms. Sherrod was not speaking *en famille* (after all, the camera was running). However, she was speaking to a self-selected audience, not to the general public. To the extent she intended to evoke certain feeling by her use of the L-word (she, whose father had been inconveniently disposed of--is that OK to note?), Sherrod did so in order to tell her NAACP audience that it was their job and hers to work against those very prejudices.

Yes, I'm from the left side of the political spectrum. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies.

Who here wishes to undo the work of the first and greatest Republican?

Quatermaster| 7.26.10 @ 8:54PM

Quin, Listen to Margie. She speaks truth and wisdom.

Kilkee| 7.26.10 @ 9:39PM

I don't think a new civil war is brewing. For one thing, if it ever began to get close to that point, we in the North would let you Southern yokels go this time, to wallow in your shitty schools and backwards religious stupidity. We could save all the tax money we send to you and treat you like the 3rd world nation you'd be in a few years.

Dixie Pixie| 7.26.10 @ 11:27PM

Greetings Kilkee

Thanks,but NO Thanks.
Secession from the Union did not work out like the Democratic Party Leadership thought it would.
A second Secession does not look to be any better for the South.
Not surprisingly no one in the South wants a rerun of the “Last Great Unpleasantness” as my Great-Aunts called the Civil War.

Another point you missed.
The North has used the South as a economic colony for the past 145+ years.
For that long the lifestyle of the Northerners has been sustained by wealth extracted from the South and West.
As a result the North needs the South more than the South needs the North.
Secession by the South is unthinkable.
Secession by the North is.
Where the Central States and the West ends up is such a political mess is anyone’s guess.

Fitzy| 7.29.10 @ 10:50AM

Actually, Dixie Pixie, the South consumes far more federal dollars and contributes far less than the rest of the country- ESPECIALLY the northeast.

http://voices.washingtonpost.c.....ipoff.html

Seems like the South needs the North a hell of a lot more than the North needs the South.

Oldefarte| 7.27.10 @ 12:44PM

I agree with Jeffrey Lord and disagree with Philip and Quin on this. Even though Jeffrey's point may have been fuzzy and not clear, his point I think is that the TRUTH SHOULD BE TOLD, and for Sherrod to critisize the Republican Party for something that it had absolutely nothing to do with is asinine and stupid, but an observation of this woman's statements makes one understand that that is precisely why she is incorrect and FALSE [also, view my posting of a Youtube link to a Reverand Charles Sherrod political speech in his church concerning whites; and contemplate that the IRS should delete his church's NON-PROFIT STATUS since it's illegal for a church minister to give political speeches inside a church]!!!!

Oldefarte| 7.27.10 @ 12:51PM

Once again, stop the POLITICAL CORRECTNESS and TELL THE TRUTH [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrcJ3cBDS7Y ]!!!!!!!!!!

Richard Bottoms| 7.29.10 @ 12:03PM

Frakking secede already. Take your ignorant, backwards, Confederate "culture", and your pig farms with you.

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