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The Spectacle Blog
Washington Post reporter/blogger Dave Weigel, who is tasked with covering conservatives, has come under fire in the past several days for derisive comments he’s made about some conservatives on the liberal listserv JournoList. You could read more background on the story here. I should disclose at the outset of this post that I consider Dave a good friend. So you can dismiss what I have to say if you want, but I felt compelled to add some broader context to this latest media controversy.
To start with, it’s important to note that all of the comments at the center of the recent uproar were made on a private email list that was supposed to be off the record. Just for a moment, think of the things that you’d say if you were joking or venting anger among friends, and imagine if they became public with context removed. If everything we said privately were public, I wonder how many of us would be able to maintain jobs or friendships. Weigel is being attacked for writing that the world would be better if Matt Drudge could “set himself on fire.” But people make off hand remarks like that all the time without literally wishing bodily harm upon other humans.
This and other private comments by Weigel have contributed to the charge that he’s hostile toward conservatives and a standard issue liberal, but I don’t think that’s accurate. I could just as easily report on private conversations in which he’s revealed a fondness for Ronald Reagan, a willingness to vote for Bobby Jindal as president, and agreed that Van Jones should have been fired for his 9/11 trutherism. Plus, it should be noted that in the past, he’s even contributed to the American Spectator.
It should also be noted that he went on Keith Olbermann’s show and shot down a story about Sarah Palin committing perjury that had been lighting up the liberal blogs and defended Cato’s Michael Cannon against a “dishonest and unfair hit” by the Center for American Progress.
I’ve disagreed with Weigel on a number of occasions, and have called him out when I’ve felt he’s placed an inordinate amount of focus on fringe characters or extreme statements made by conservatives. But I also know that he isn’t some “drive by” journalist. He knows his subject matter well, reads constantly, goes to lots of conservative events, maintains friendships with conservatives, and talks to a lot of conservatives for his articles and quotes them accurately.
UPDATE: Since I posted this, it’s come to my attention that Dave Weigel has resigned.
View all comments (152) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Philip Klein
http://spectator.org/blog/2010/06/25/defending-dave-weigel
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Jim Treacher | 6.25.10 @ 12:48PM
The next time I want to keep something off the record, I won't write it down and send it to hundreds of people.
Wally| 6.25.10 @ 2:26PM
Jim, hope you've recovered from your unfortunate "accident" with a Government SUV.
Ran / Si Vis Pacem | 6.25.10 @ 3:31PM
In fairness, WaPo fired McChrystal for the same thing. No, hang on, it was TOTUS that fired Weigel for snark.
WendyG| 6.25.10 @ 5:38PM
Indeed. Why would journalists, of all people, be that naive?
As my sainted mother always says - "never put anything in writing that you wouldn't want read in a court of law."
Karol | 6.25.10 @ 12:49PM
I don't know him but I trust your opinion, Philip, that Weigel is a nice guy. I think the point, though, was to have someone conservative covering conservatives and he just wasn't. I think Ben Smith says it best here: http://www.politico.com/blogs/....._Post.html
It's not Weigel's fault but this was just not the right position for him.
About Dave Weigel | 6.25.10 @ 5:39PM
Weigel's such a great guy that he wrote about me on his personal site and then refused to approve the comment I left in reply showing how he's wrong. Details at my name's link.
A really top notch person. (Relatively speaking).
Smarmy| 6.25.10 @ 7:28PM
That you, Dave?
About Reason Magazine | 6.25.10 @ 10:41PM
When I used to leave comments at Reason, I got that all the time. In fact, comments like that - or far worse - were the only "argument" their commenters and contributors were able to ever provide. Read about all that at the link. If libertarians were intelligent and civil, they wouldn't be libertarians in the first place. Their contributors and their commenters have various mental and emotional problems that prevent them from making - and then defending - a grown-up argument about anything.
P.S. Reason - like many other libertarian groups - is funded by or linked to the Koch family, and the Kochs aren't big fans of Ron or Rand Paul. While at Reason, Weigel helped get Ron Paul out of the prez race (over the newsletters issue). He turned his attention to other r/w groups, which picked up when he moved to TWI (funded by Soros and Rockefeller) and then the WaPo. Weigel is basically just a henchman for whoever's paying him.
Crissa| 6.25.10 @ 10:14PM
No one would approve your comments if they didn't have to. You're a self-flagellating troll.
Chris | 6.25.10 @ 12:51PM
"Just for a moment, think of the things that you'd say if you were joking or venting anger among friends, and imagine if they became public with context removed. If everything we said privately were public, I wonder how many of us would be able to maintain jobs or friendships."
The newly unemployed aides to GEN Stanley McChrystal concur strongly with this sentiment.
Kyle | 6.25.10 @ 12:53PM
Sure, he's such a nice guy. But if I was to say that Obama should set himself on fire, my comment would be banned. You journalists really know how to pick some quality friends. For the record, I can't recall any friend I've ever made (liberal or conservative) who has advocated that someone commit suicide. Only you high stakes journo's let the heat get to you so much that you go that route.
Chris | 6.25.10 @ 12:59PM
Gallows humor and "girl" talk is part of every profession where those who gather to discuss the state of affairs of their daily duties (again, see the aides to GEN McChrystal). I find it hard to believe, Kyle, you're so sensitive that you can tell he doesn't really think those things. He's venting. It's a defense mechanism against the BS you have to deal with on a daily basis of making a living. Dave Weigel just made the mistake of being honest in a forum he thought was private when it really wasn't.
My recommendation is they form a new group, call it "Journalust" (shades of "No Homers") and continue on with the business of being snarky in the business they love to hate.
Kyle Smith| 6.25.10 @ 1:13PM
Oh sure, in venting yesterday at work, I told my boss to drop dead, and we just laughed and laughed. No biggie. Words don't matter.
LT| 6.25.10 @ 1:42PM
You are being very silly. Trust me, 99.99% of people know exactly what Klein means.
Bob Johnson| 6.25.10 @ 2:00PM
You really are a delicate little flower. I work for the Army and all I can say is I don't know a single person who would be able to keep his/her job if this were a universal standard.
Kyle| 6.25.10 @ 3:42PM
This is just journos circling the wagons. Seems the delicate flowers are in the press and White House. These two groups were the ones who made a mountain out of a mole hill about Gen. McChrystal. At least my delicateness hasn't gotten a General pulled out of battle.
Kyle Smith| 6.25.10 @ 1:16PM
Yes, most murderers think they are killing in private too.
Gus| 6.25.10 @ 4:33PM
Excellent analogy. This is exactly the same thing.
sleepy| 6.27.10 @ 3:44AM
Honestly I can't tell if you're just doubling down on bs or if you really are that stupid.
Rob G.| 6.25.10 @ 1:17PM
Kyle, you've never told someone -- even in joking fashion -- to "take a flying leap" or "take a long walk off a short pier?" That's not advocating suicide; it's just venting.
Such language about a president -- of any party -- falls into a different category (which is why the FBI starts nosing around when someone says something -- even as a joke -- that could be construed as wishing harm on a president.
Fred Fnord| 6.25.10 @ 8:29PM
FYI, in the 'liberal press', this sort of thing is said, on the record, constantly about liberals. Only last week, one person called Obama voters 'insects and rodents' and someone else said that if Obama couldn't be impeached he should be shot. Erick Erickson calls a supreme court justice a goat-____ing child molester and advocates beating up government officials and is rewarded with a job at CNN. Nobody even BLINKS.
Someone says something like that off the record about a conservative? That's verboten!
So yeah. Turns out that the double standard can even burn conservatives, if they criticize other conservatives. Irony!
-fred
Careless| 6.27.10 @ 11:48AM
The post doesn't have a problem with its writers writing things like that elsewhere (see Ezra Klein's twitter). It has a problem with the person with Weigel's specific column writing that sort of thing about conservatives.
brenda| 6.27.10 @ 6:58PM
In what sense in JournoList not "elsewhere"?
Derek Leaberry| 6.25.10 @ 12:55PM
So instead of eating at Komi's Weigel will be bussing tables at Komi's.
Wally| 6.25.10 @ 2:28PM
Works for me--Weigel is a dirtbag.
CourageMan | 6.25.10 @ 12:56PM
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
You simply cannot cover a beat whose primary actors you hold in utter contempt. And to the extent that you can, I'll believe the Post believes that when I see them hire a conservative who makes Botox jokes about Nancy Pelosi, wishes San Francisco would drop into the sea, and otherwise shows himself to be a dittohead, to cover the progressive movement.
It's really that simple.
RCB| 6.25.10 @ 1:06PM
Exactly right. Have the WaPo hire Coulter to cover the Left.
I had some sympathy for Weigel... right up until I read his statements that conservatives are motivated by "white privlege". Sorry, but if that's what he thinks modern American conservatism is about, then he's incapable of doing his ostensible job fairly.
EmeraldKnight| 6.25.10 @ 1:25PM
Would that be like hiring Erick Erickson to "analyze" politics for CNN? Or having Pat Buchanan on MSNBC for the same reason?
There is something to be said for having liberals analyze Republicans and have angry white people attempt to analyze what the Democrats are doing.
RCB| 6.25.10 @ 1:44PM
Not the sme thing. Weigel ostensibly was "covering" the conservative movement as a straight reporter. You can't do that if you're unable to keep your personal animus under wraps. Now if MSNBC sends Buchanan to become its bureau chief in Tel Aviv...
"Angry white people", huh? You know, the one positive thing about people on the left tagging all oppostion as "racist"? By the time 2012 rolls around, that trope will have been so overused, it will have lost any meaning.
LT| 6.25.10 @ 1:44PM
You're supposed to read pieces you comment on:
"It should also be noted that he went on Keith Olbermann's show and shot down a story about Sarah Palin committing perjury that had been lighting up the liberal blogs and defended Cato's Michael Cannon against a "dishonest and unfair hit" by the Center for American Progress."
How do you post your preposterous "contempt" comment after that? Seems very simple.
oboe| 6.25.10 @ 5:13PM
Here's the simple thing: there is a large and diverse right-wing in this country. It's most vocal, toxic, and frankly, stupid, elements are along the Coulter/Beck/Drudge axis. There are intelligent folks on the right, both traditional conservatives, and libertarians, who have nothing but contempt for these walking pustules on the civic body.
Meanwhile, you have rank-and-file right-wing folks for whom calling an idiot an idiot is an unforgivable crime against the right. Weigel's crime was an insufficient orthodoxy to certain celebs on the brain-dead wing of the far-right. That orthodoxy is killing the conservative movement.
Overture| 6.25.10 @ 7:33PM
Shove it down your double reed, oboe.
Progressive/Marxist pustules, Chrissy "Tingle" Matthews and Queef Olberbite speak for you, loser. Talk about a braindead movement.
Coda| 6.25.10 @ 8:06PM
Wow. Way to confirm exactly what Oboe was saying. Instead of dismantling his/her argument, you resort to name-calling. I, for one, can't stand Matthews or Olbermann, but you make yourself sound like an ignoramus by calling them names.
By the way, if, as many so-called conservatives claim, Barack Obama is a "Progressive/Marxist," then please note that the President of the United States speaks for them, not a bunch of TV talking heads. Who in a position of power speaks for the dying movement of social conservatism?
Bigfurhat | 6.25.10 @ 9:16PM
but you make yourself sound like an ignoramus by calling them names.>
What's a Paultard? Does that name calling make Weigel an ignoramus?
(No, I don't support Ron Paul. What I do support is demolishing commenters on threads,)
Overture| 6.25.10 @ 10:28PM
Well, I'll call you a pustule then, Coda, since you didn't consider it "calling names" when oboe did it. Sniveling Liberal hypocrite.
Listen up, Coda--Conservatives outnumber you worthless Liberal Marxists 2 to 1. You're gonna get a political beatin' in November; save the date--we have!
Read it and weep, Libtard.
The rifleman| 6.26.10 @ 11:24AM
Excuse me Coda-but how many times has a conservative had to be called a liar,a racist or some other juvenille name at the hands of a Oberdork or a Chrissy Mattspews? You may not like it, but those labels stick. Get real mister, so called middle of the roaders end up getting run over. Tell me Coda, hows Mr Hope and Change working out for you now?
Fred Fnord| 6.25.10 @ 8:32PM
Sorry, I call troll. That's far too beautiful an illustration of the parent poster's point for it to be real. Awesome job!
-fred
Garnet| 6.26.10 @ 2:09AM
No, orthodoxy just killed Journolist. Weigel thought he was writing among friends; Klein says Journolist is for people left of centre. So I guess we know what Weigel's friends think his politics are. He shares their contempt for the Tea Party crowd; maybe that's all it takes to be a 'progressive' at the moment.
DM!| 6.25.10 @ 12:56PM
I honestly have no idea who he is, but the most I get out of this is that he is someone with zero sense of humor. A goofy item that he is a sweaty dancer and likes to dance caused all this?
In the end, it is comical, because it is funny to see how clubby everyone is.
LT| 6.25.10 @ 1:46PM
It's honestly mystifying to see comments like this. It's like you actually physically took the part of your brain out that read the part about his girlfriend. Just bizarre.
Rob Sterling| 6.25.10 @ 12:57PM
It seems his time playing Margaret Meade to us knuckle-draggers is over.
CourageMan | 6.25.10 @ 12:59PM
In other words: There is an argument to be made for having a friendly Ezra Klein cover liberals. There is an argument to be made for having a hostile Dave Weigel cover conservatives. There is no argument to be made for doing both together.
Capn America| 6.25.10 @ 1:43PM
Ezra Klein doesn't cover liberals, he covers whatever big issue is being discussed in Congress. The Post doesn't have a liberal equivalent for Weigel. Maybe Froomkin in the past, but Froomkin's beat was more media criticism anyway.
Fred Fnord| 6.25.10 @ 8:33PM
Nobody covers liberals there. Hadn't you heard? We're irrelevant.
-fred
Janice| 6.25.10 @ 10:15PM
You Liberals are like bad pennies--you keep turning up.
Dick Hunter| 6.25.10 @ 1:09PM
It's Margaret Mead, dumbass, not Meade.
And yes, you are a knuckle-dragger, and someone has to study your ilk. If not Weigel, then someone else.
Rob Sterling| 6.25.10 @ 1:23PM
Oh my God, I made a spelling error on a proper noun! That completely invalidates my worldview.
(But at least I know how to use the "reply" function in a comment thread.)
Dick Hunter| 6.25.10 @ 4:12PM
That's probably about the only thing you DO know how to do, besides whine like a little girl whenever someone makes fun of conservative morons.
Rob Sterling| 6.25.10 @ 4:33PM
I know how to be civil to trolls...
ZerObama| 6.25.10 @ 4:55PM
Happy hunting, Dick. Perhaps a magnifying glass can help you find what you're looking for.
Andy Sullivan| 6.25.10 @ 3:05PM
Dick Hunter| 6.25.10 @ 1:09PM
Hey, look me up.
Wally| 6.25.10 @ 3:35PM
It's already been well established that Liberalism is a mental illness.
cinesimon| 6.25.10 @ 5:56PM
childish nonsense
Wally| 6.25.10 @ 7:37PM
Childish and nonsensical--you've described Weigel perfectly; he's also a foul-mouthed little bastard, isn't he?
Well, never mind, the little pig is gone now.
Kyle| 6.25.10 @ 1:11PM
"...when I've felt he's placed an inordinate amount of focus on fringe characters or extreme statements made by conservatives."
Yep, didn't any extreme statements by conservatives rise to the level of someone, setting themselves on fire? The "above it all" conservative media strikes again. The funny thing is, you guys think that most Americans are as tasteless and ignorant as you all. That we all go around advocating death to others, and saying, "I'm going to kill so and so", "the world would be so much better if person A was dead".
Don| 6.25.10 @ 1:28PM
Ya know, this represents a common but fundamental misunderstanding of emai and the internet writ large. If you are chatting with friends at home, you are talking to people you know (and presumably trust) in a truly private setting. Even then, it is hardly unheard of to have one or more of your 'friends' repeat your ill-advised comments behind your back.
If you are chatting in a bar, you are not private. Anyone overhearing your comments can repeat them.
If you are emailing, particularly if this is done on a company email account, you are not private in your room; you are shouting in a bar. It takes a different kind of eavesdropping to read email not addressed to you but it is nothing like reading US mail not addressed to you. The analogy would hold if all US mail were packaged in see-through envelopes. Email is packaged just so.
SO, Mr Weigel may have not meant what he wrote literally but he addressed it to what appear to be unreliable 'friends' and did so in a public way. EMAIL and the INTERNET are NOT PRIVATE!!! The sooner people get this simple truth through their heads, the sooner they will stop stepping hard on their own cranks.
RightKlik | 6.25.10 @ 1:32PM
Weigel exposes the fact that most journalists are nasty libs who need to drop the dishonest veneer of objectivity.
Mike| 6.25.10 @ 1:33PM
I like seeing a blog controversy as much as the next guy, but really that's all this is - not that that's a bad thing (proprietors of the big political sites need their pie fights too). But for those of down at worm’s-eye level, this doesn't even register. We’re not Charlie Brown, and we don't fall for “come on kick the football” con, so when the Post made a bid to get a little more readership with the “adding balance by having somebody write about conservatives” bit, most of us paid the same amount of attention we would to any carnival barker/used car salesman/late night infomercial pitchman.
Wiegel is probably an okay guy, but his position is an explicit and patronizing Wapo offer of a card table in the basement while the adults eat upstairs – I don’t need or read him or the dying newspaper he works for.
Rob Sterling| 6.25.10 @ 1:46PM
Very well said.
Caliconservative| 6.25.10 @ 1:36PM
Interesting that one of your "defenses" of Mr. Weigel is that he "goes to a lot of conservative events, maintains friendships with conservatives, and talks to a lot of conservatives"...just how naive are you? He "had to" do these things in order to get "dirt" on conservatives. You were being USED!
999| 6.25.10 @ 1:49PM
It's odd to see good cons like Tim Carney, Jim Geraghty, MK Ham and RS McCain defend Weigel because they partied with hm in Alexandria. It shows the Beltway mentality thrives even in conservative populist circles.
Kyle| 6.25.10 @ 3:44PM
I think you are right on with this. These guys are just social climbers in the world of journalism, and boy do they love to dismiss the rest of us regular folks who aren't members of their club.
Sean| 6.25.10 @ 3:51PM
When this is all done, it'd be nice if someone made a single list of all the "conservative" Weigel-philes so we know whom not to trust in the future.
hailstate| 6.25.10 @ 2:00PM
It will be interesting to see how Weigel's "fondness" with certain conservatives translates at his new job at the openly liberal HuffPo.
Kaen| 6.25.10 @ 2:00PM
Weigel shouldn't have been made to resign. At least not if the WaPo is going to keep the editor who assigned someone to cover a beat against which that reporter had a clear animus.
Memo to Phil Klein: "Private e-mail" list is an oxymoron. If that's news to anyone in the 21st century, he has no business in journalism.
William R| 6.25.10 @ 2:36PM
After reading the Daily Caller piece about the e-mails I have to say Weigel comes across as a punk kid. In fairness, I never did much care for Weigel in the first place after the hatchet job he did on Ron Paul back in early 2008.
Tad Early| 6.25.10 @ 3:01PM
This is the gravamen of the issue -- not whether the emails were private, not his political persuasion, and not what his beat is. He comes across as an immature, millennial hack following the tradition of the times -- why discuss the merits of an issue when you can savage a person? If the emails showed a shred of maturity, I'd be inclined to agree with the "they're private" defense. Sorry.
davidgs | 6.25.10 @ 2:38PM
so now being " .. hostile toward conservatives and a standard issue liberal" is a firing offense? Right. Got it. But joking about poisoning Nancy Pelosi on national TV, and calling someone a "goatfucking pedophile" in public, that's all still ok? Liberal media in a pig's eye!
Red Phillips | 6.25.10 @ 2:56PM
Weigel, who used to work at Reason, is by no means a "standard issue liberal." He is, however, very much a standard issue "cosmoterian," meaning he is a left libertarian with "cosmopolitan" sensibilities.
William R| 6.25.10 @ 3:59PM
I wouldn't even call him a left libertarian. All he did in 2007-08 was attack Ron Paul the most libertarian candidate to run since Barry Goldwater. Doesn't look good for Reason magazine either.
Red Phillips | 6.25.10 @ 5:35PM
Believe it or not, Weigel is anti-big government and anti-social programs, but he is a social liberal. He didn't like Paul because he didn't like Paul's largely right-wing populist libertarian following, and like a good cosmotarian PC hand-wringer, he got all worked up about the newsletters.
Nate| 6.25.10 @ 7:38PM
Is he an anti-Semite like you?
Red Phillips | 6.25.10 @ 9:02PM
"like a good ... PC hand-wringer"
Kind of like hysterics who call non-interventionists anti-Semites because they support neutrality. Right Lie Detect ... err ... I mean Nate.
Nate| 6.25.10 @ 10:30PM
Haha.
Johnny Simpson| 6.25.10 @ 2:59PM
I see your points, Philip. But there's no such thing as off the record anymore, especially if you are a WaPo columnist assuming the cloak of objectivity re conservative issues. Jesse Jackson's Hymietown comment was off the record too. Oh, well. So it goes.
BTW Weigel resigned, so the matter is moot. The moral of the story? If you're a public or media figure and don't want anyone to hear bad words you're considering saying, DON'T SAY THEM!
Pete2| 6.25.10 @ 3:14PM
Good riddance to rubbish is what I think. Getting tired of some on the right defending these AH's also. You're no better.
FleshBomb| 6.25.10 @ 3:18PM
Philip -
I want to thank you for this post. I now know that you are more interested in making buddies inside the beltway than you are "fighting the good fight".
Weigel showed his true feelings in the journoList emails. Of course, anyone who read Dave's trype, i.e. the "Etheridge, hug" already knew this. I wonder what he said about you on some of those emails?
I hope people remember this post and take you with a grain of salt from now on. These fools are trying to systematically change our country. But that is no big deal to you - so long as they are a good wing-man at the local DC shit hole.
Wally| 6.25.10 @ 3:40PM
GRAIN of salt? Hell, I've been taking weenie Philip Klein with a CHUNK of salt for a long time now.
The guy's WEAK!
Kyle | 6.25.10 @ 3:48PM
Right on, it's these punk 20 somethings trying to make it big in the DC swamp. They've been wearing neckties everyday since they were 6 years old; just more of the same elites. It's the next generation of elites, and they are so darn smart. Ezra Klein is 25 and the beltway listens to him, and we wonder why liberty is at death's door.
Abe Froman | 6.25.10 @ 3:23PM
The guy is a twit. Whether he wrote certain things for public consumption or not, parroting a bunch of left-wing memes which are rooted in emotionalism and self-flattery rather than insightfulness means he has no value as a journalist in the sense that he merits any defense from the right.
Get yourself some cooler friends or something, but don't insult peoples' intelligence by suggesting that this guy is anything but a moonbat or a pseudo-libertarian circling the bowl before joining them.
FleshBomb| 6.25.10 @ 3:33PM
Philip Klein -
Defender of the man who said that the conservative movement is based on racism and protecting "white privilege".
Defender of the man who called a US Congressman's assault and battery on a citizen a "hug".
Philip Klein - useful idiot.
Wally| 6.25.10 @ 3:41PM
Yup! Klein's the ultimate "inside the beltway" useful idiot.
FleshBomb| 6.25.10 @ 4:06PM
Philip Klein aka WeigelTard.
Amy| 6.25.10 @ 4:14PM
Philip, I just wanted to thank you for writing this piece about Weigel that helps give some perspective. Fyi, y'all who disagree, you don't have to be a liberal to feel this country's conservative party isn't worthy of the name. An awful lot of conservatives also feel that way -- but know they'd be dismissed as idiots by " conservative" "thinkers" like FleshBomb, who have zero understanding of the intellectual values their party was founded upon.
FleshBomb| 6.25.10 @ 4:26PM
Amy,
Is this country's conservative movement based on racism and protecting white privilege? That is what Weigel wrote and Philip is now defending.
Of course, you're a liberal troll or Philips' girlfriend. Either way you aren't in any position to know what my "understanding" of anything is.
Abe Froman | 6.25.10 @ 4:47PM
Nice bit of self-important prattle, Amy. I hope you're aware that a word salad of shallow pronouncements about your plight as a deep-thinking "conservative" makes for a rather buffoonish contradiction. You're either a thoroughly disingenuous leftist or you're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
ZerObama| 6.25.10 @ 4:58PM
I'm bettin' both are true, Abe.
oboe| 6.25.10 @ 5:17PM
Hi Everybody! This is my first time at the American Spectator. Wow! The commenters here really are some of the dumbest folks I've ever read.
Apologies to Mr Klein; having these folks for an audience must be unceasingly frustrating... Stiff upper lip.
Abe Froman | 6.25.10 @ 5:41PM
If you take a laxative first you won't have to grunt and strain so much to force out a turd.
Overture| 6.25.10 @ 7:41PM
LMAO!
Oboists look like they're constipated when they perform; I believe a strong laxative is advised.
JTHC75| 6.25.10 @ 5:24PM
Yeah, but what does he say behind your back, Phil?
JTHC75| 6.25.10 @ 5:31PM
I'm sure when Weigel was colluding with other "journalists" to frame to Coakley's defeat in a way so as not to harm the Democratic Party, he was probably thinking "I'll tell all my ratfuck conservative friends that I'm fond of Reagan so they won't suspect that I'm just a PR shill for the Democrats." Yeah, Phil, what else did he tell you in private to build up his conservative cred?
WendyG| 6.25.10 @ 5:35PM
So when do we get the rest of the story, i.e. who is the liberal rat****** who outed him?
Cal Mark| 6.25.10 @ 5:41PM
How nice, Mr. Klein.
In case no one has told you, we're in a civil war. The enemy does this sort of thing to us all the time. Fair is fair--and it's about time the tables were turned.
There is no intellectual heft to this defense; it is mainly a man protecting someone he likes.
See, we conservatives are "better than them" and not allowed to fight back, let alone ask questions like that.
I wonder whether Dave Weigel would similarly protect Phillip Klein? Any takers?
oboe| 6.25.10 @ 5:42PM
From Marc Ambinder over at The Atlantic:
In hiring Weigel, the Post knew it was bringing on board someone with a style of journalism -- and it definitely is journalism -- that was not orthodox, that would not always conform to the Post's habits and customs, and that would occasionally become personal. Weigel does blog-based reporting better than just about anyone in the journalistic world. His opinions are plain: he's a disaffected libertarian. Not a conventional liberal. Not even a Fred Hyatt liberal.
Weigel is best described as an anti-denialist. He hates stupid people and stupid human tricks and stupid political consultants. He's developed a natural rapport with conservatives because he says what he thinks. I was a member of the now defunct Journolist group. I'm also a voracious consumer of Dave Weigel's tweets. And I can tell you that nothing he wrote on the list was more outre than what he Tweeted.
Really, to your average mainstream Beck/Coulter wingnut, that's the cardinal sin.
FleshBomb| 6.25.10 @ 5:51PM
Yeah, Weigel is all that an a bag of chips. He's also an unemployed LIBERAL. Libertarian, my rat******* ass.
WendyG| 6.25.10 @ 6:05PM
Well, if Weigel hates stupid people, he must hate himself and everyone is that liberal echo chamber. You gotta be real stupid to think what was said in there would remain private.
It's amazing to see so many journalists circle the wagon and defend that silly liberal chat room.
And if you read this article from way back - you will see that the anointed ones given entry considered themselves the cat's meow.
http://www.politico.com/news/s.....20086.html
Funniest comment - Jeffery Toobin says nobody in the chat room had an agenda. Ha!
Abe Froman | 6.25.10 @ 6:17PM
Really, to your average mainstream Beck/Coulter wingnut, that's the cardinal sin
My aren't you a deep thinker. Nothing convinces me like a journalist attesting to the brilliance of another journalist. It's not exactly a vocation which is a magnet for the best and brightest.
Furthermore, the true acid test of an intellectually honest person is their capacity to see the abject stupidity which is in abundance across the ideological spectrum. You're a not particularly bright example of someone who follows politics like they would their favorite sports team. Not a hint of self-awareness.
Blue| 6.25.10 @ 5:52PM
Weigel's exhortion on Journolist after Martha Coakley's loss:
“I think pointing out Coakley’s awfulness is vital, because it’s 1) true and 2) unreasonable panic about it is doing more damage to the Democrats.”
So that's what he wrote privately. Here's his putatively objective account of the loss in the Atlantic:
"In the debate over how Democrats could possibly lose the race--which has major repercussions for President Obama's agenda--Coakley herself is taking more and more of the blame."
steve| 6.25.10 @ 6:27PM
never heard of the man(weigel) until today, but he is one stupid sob.
Craig| 6.25.10 @ 6:36PM
it's amazing to see tribalism in action. Klein gave several examples of Wiegel's even-handedness, including a defense of Sarah Palin and a Cato scholar, and commenters here are still calling for his head. not only that, they then impugn Klein for having the gall to call attention to these examples, which demonstrate his ability to separate private convictions from his job.
are those of you attacking Wiegel and Klein trying to claim that you've never said something inflammatory in private that you didn't literally mean? that you've never used abrasive language when discussing controversial ideas that you disagree with? in other words, you are asserting that you are an emotionally and ideologically perfect human being? get a grip for goodness sake. everyone says things in the heat of passion that don't reflect their rational beliefs. I'm sure there are plenty of Conservatives that Wiegel finds agreeable. in fact, here's Julian Sanchez on the matter, saying much the same thing:
http://www.theatlantic.com/bus.....ife/58748/
"If the Princess-and-the-Pea brigade now cheering his departure would bracket their persecution complex for five minutes, they'd realize that he was consistently delivering coverage about as fair and sympathetic as could reasonably be hoped for. What they apparently wanted was a movement hack to dole out indiscriminate praise to anyone claiming the mantle of conservatism--whereas Dave took the right seriously enough to make distinctions between what he saw as its credible thinkers and its nuts and opportunists. Memo to my friends on the right: If you bristle at being stereotyped as an undifferentiated bloc of racists and crude blowhards, maybe you shouldn't take automatic umbrage when someone points out particular individuals who are."
FleshBomb| 6.25.10 @ 7:00PM
What's your point? For every 1 example you have of him "defending" a conservative I can give you 10 of him pushing a leftist agenda.
Memo to Julian Sanchez. Get over it. Another leftist on journoList sold him out. He made his bed and now he has to lie in it. I love it when rats eat each other. I just don't like it when "conservatives" start making excuses for said rats.
Stop with the whining already.
Abe Froman | 6.25.10 @ 7:09PM
Good Lord. Quite an emotional investment you have in this. The left would be reacting the exact same way if the shoe were on the other foot. And the copy and paste you supplemented your argument with does not help your case at all, as it's just standard-issue self-awareness-free left-wing drivel.
What you're experiencing is blowback. People on the right are weary of the left's slander and what circling of the wagons you see is a reflection of that. Why exactly should the right scurry to distance themselves from every random kook who shows up at a rally and ends up photographed and posted on moonbat sites when the left is free to hold circle jerks with Marxists, Maoists and degenerates of every stripe? Do you know of any right wing terrorists who are tenured professors and in demand speakers?
The game is no longer being played on your terms. Your dishonest memes will be met head on from now on. Deal with it.
BozObama| 6.25.10 @ 7:44PM
Blowback's a bitch, Liberal dirtbags--better get used to it because we're just starting!
Great posts, Abe!
RightOn| 6.25.10 @ 7:50PM
Most of the conservative Beltway journos who missed this are just part of a cliquish journalistic circuit which includes all types of some conservatives, and some of the Reason crowd. And some of the Reason crowd can be tied to the Ezra Klein crowd. The clique is very young. If they are attractive enough, they can make it on FOX. (See Mary K Ham.) If they have an edge, the Examiner will hire them.
Jim Gereaghty got especially burned by the Weigel affair. They were buddies so therefore, JG coud not see the story before his eyes. Thus, the lot of them, from the Examiner to National Review, got their arse handed to them by Daily Caller and Fishbowl.
Who'd a thunk that Tucker Carlson's web site would outwork the Examiner, NR and FOX?
After the Steele-bondage news, this is strike two for the DC's "conservative" journo competition in the Beltway.
I am sure they are not worried. Many are puffing their faces for another appearance on FOX.
WendyG| 6.25.10 @ 7:59PM
The Daily Caller certainly made their bones with this story. While I will agree that there is an emerging young posse on the Conservative side as well, are they as influential? They weren't even allowed in the chat room. Interestingly, Tucker Carlson recently tried to gain entry (according to Ezra Klein) - but was rebuffed. Things that make you go hmmmmmm...
I really hope we find out who blew the whistle. That's the next bombshell.
WendyG| 6.25.10 @ 7:51PM
From Ambinder:
>>>And I can tell you that nothing he wrote on the list was more outre than what he Tweeted.
Outre. Snort.
BTW - Weigel looks very young and so does Ezra Klein. This is one of the unfortunate results of the blogosphere, a maw that needs constant feeding. Kids who look like the prep school boys in Scent of a Woman elevated to positions of influence and power for which they are woefully unprepared. And of course they very made possible the election of Obama, so there is also a dangerous arrogance.
RightOn| 6.25.10 @ 8:20PM
Klein is very young. Weigel is 30. Both are prone to behavior much younger than that. Google "Ezra Klein" and "Tim Russert" if you don't believe me.
I am not sure about Jim Geraghty, but NR is the the original youthful conservative clique. They seem incapable of hiring someone who has been in the real news business. Instead, they hire writers right out of college.
This trend can be destructive. Ask the Post. At the NRO, Geraghty continued to play Twitter footsies with Weigel right through today. Like I said, then Tucker came in and cleaned their clocks.
NRO is getting fat and lazy. Rich Lowry, who enjoys tending to his elitist diaper flock, has not helped. I am not sure they could break a story if their circulation depended on it. Instead, NRO, Townhall, MK Ham and a bunch of them chew cud and discuss issues on O'Reilly that are at least 24 hours old.
As for the Post, they thought they were getting some intellectual Rand-follower and they got Explosive- Potty Mouth Liberal.
And talk about psychological projection! He called Pubs ratf------s over and over. Then he took the WaPo role as one.
WendyG| 6.25.10 @ 8:53PM
Well there certainly was plenty of apologia or near-apologia for Weigel among Conservatives today, which frankly surprised me. Even Ed Morrissey at Hot Air was very lukewarm in his response. Is this a good ole' boys club? Are they circling the wagons for their own? As you said though, Tucker Carlson isn't having it. Good on you Tucker, wherever you are.
And this liberal chat room had 400 members!! That leaves what, a couple dozen Conservatives rounding out the rest of the press corps? :)
RightOn| 6.25.10 @ 9:22PM
"Even Ed Morrissey at Hot Air was very lukewarm in his response. Is this a good ole' boys club?"
It is. Members include RS McCain (who is a major apologist for Weasel); Marc Ambinder; Jim Geraghty; yadda yadda yadda. It even includes some people who work at the Washington Examiner (!).
David went to a variety of forums and parties thrown by his friends at Reason. This is where he met them. He is a Beltway creature. But more ready to drink from the elitist kegs of Conventional Wisdom than most 30 year olds. What no one knew was he preferred the strokes fom the Ezra Klein crowd and not the Reason-Nick Gillespie crowd.
As for Ambinder, what a freakin' lie! I have read most of Weigel's Tweets and his JList comments.
His comments on JList were profane and nasty.
Ambinder is lying.
Here's a lesson: DO NOT WRITE ABOUT FRIENDS IF YOU CLAIM TO BE A REAL JOURNALIST.
IF YOUR COLUMN CONTAINS THE PHRASE "WEIGEL IS A FRIEND....," THEN SPIKE IT.
Is it that hard for people like Geraghty and Ambinder to understand?
Nobama| 6.25.10 @ 10:11PM
Beltway Fever affects Republican politicians and pundits--they want to be invited to those chi-chi DC cocktail parties, you know.
I'm glad Weigel got bounced--what a horse's ass.
WendyG| 6.25.10 @ 10:17PM
A more realistic view:
Unhappy Day At The Washington Post
http://www.theatlantic.com/nat.....ost/58745/
RightOn| 6.25.10 @ 10:46PM
PKlein really, really needs to acknowledge this article:
Unhappy Day At The Washington Post
http://www.theatlantic.com/nat.....ost/58745/
ggoblue| 6.25.10 @ 11:48PM
sorry klein....i just read some of it...he's a ratfu-k
North Dallas Thirty | 6.26.10 @ 12:13AM
Klein gave several examples of Wiegel's even-handedness, including a defense of Sarah Palin and a Cato scholar, and commenters here are still calling for his head. not only that, they then impugn Klein for having the gall to call attention to these examples, which demonstrate his ability to separate private convictions from his job.
Um, no.
His "defense" of Sarah Palin was essentially saying, "Well, she probably lied, but maybe we should see the transcript first so we don't make complete idiots out of ourselves". And then he openly stated that she "fudged her words".
And his "defense" of Cannon involves implying that another person, legitimately concerned about criminal activity by illegal immigrants, is a racist.
Meanwhile, a fine example; he's pretending to agree with Klein in private that Van Jones should be fired while, over on JournoList, he's shrieking that Glenn Beck is a racist for putting up a picture of Van Jones with Jeremiah Wright.
Here's some advice, Klein; consider the JournoList emails as a free clue, and go find out why Weigel is saying one thing to you and ranting quite another to his real "friends" like Ezra Klein.
Matt X| 6.26.10 @ 1:38AM
I dont' get the point in conservatives defending this guy. There's a difference in just disagreeing with conservatives and callow stupid attacks on them. And I don't think this guy reported fairly on conservatives to begin with. Why shouldn't conservatives want somebody better than this hack being assigned to cover them?
Joanie| 6.26.10 @ 2:09AM
They don't call the GOP the Stupid Party for nothin'.
Matt X| 6.26.10 @ 1:41AM
The reality is Weigel, Julian Sanchez, Conor F, and Andrew Sullivan are all gay. I'm not dissing them for being gay, but what they hate about conservatives is that that they think conservatives are out to get gay people. So they think their ad hominem attacks on conservatives is justified.
Spicy Joker| 6.26.10 @ 2:16AM
Good grief, Phil. You are rationalizing Weigel's hateful, juvenile, contemptuous comments. Hey, Phil, I hear the Washington Compost has an opening for a pseudo-conservative.
Matt X| 6.26.10 @ 3:30AM
Sometimes I think these political pundits are all putting on a show for us. Surely there's some guy out there that was more qualified for the job than this Weigel hack? Seems like the Washington Post just plucked some liberal kid out of community college in Vermont and made him the source authority on what conservatives think. It seems to me there's no real punishment for "journalists" either....you have even conservative pundits wishiing this hack well and he'll end up writing somewhere else. Seems like being a journalist is a pretty easy job....don't be a hack and don't run off at the mouth. If this guy wanted to be a liberal pundit, he should have done that to begin with.
bwunderlick| 6.26.10 @ 3:33AM
wow, first time here and it is trollorific! i feel bad for philip klien if these comments represent his readers.
i have to agree though his defense of a friend who has been vilified for saying mean things in a semi-private forum about someone who has been attacking him is disgusting. he should be out in front with a pitchfork lead this blog mob to justice!
what disturbed me most about weigel was how he apologized for saying in 20 years gay marriage activists will be regarded as bigots. he should have said they ARE bigots.
WendyG| 6.26.10 @ 10:56AM
>>>i have to agree though his defense of a friend who has been vilified for saying mean things in a semi-private forum about someone who has been attacking him is disgusting. he should be out in front with a pitchfork lead this blog mob to justice!
That is so not the point.
Much is what Weigel posted in that chatroom (and nothing 400 people read is "private") is indefensible and idiotic. He seriously crossed the line and proved he has no business writing a column about Conservatism. And no Conservative - hey, no journalist - should defend him.
I am glad to see the snarky, self-important, Obama-worshipping lefty blogosphere take a hit. And from within!
Joe| 6.26.10 @ 1:29PM
bwunderlick--nice name. It's anatomy, moron; the butt is an exit not an entrance.
Pervert.
bwunderlick| 6.26.10 @ 9:35PM
If you think Weigel is an Obama worshiping lefty, you'll also probably think my name has something to do with butts. Or you think that pointing out bigotry is bigotry!
Nice movement you guys got here.
Joe| 6.26.10 @ 11:53PM
I think you're a typical whining liberal loser using identity politics to grab power and control.
In short, you're a Progressive-Marxist and an enemy of the American people.
Matt Heath| 6.26.10 @ 3:35AM
I cracked up when I saw the ombudsman at the Washington Post say that this Weigel situation had made them lose standing among conservatives......I did not know they had any standing among conservatives to begin with....the paper actively campaigns against Republicans in Virginia elections.
Matt X| 6.26.10 @ 3:36AM
The guy above is an example of the intolerance of leftists. Bigots always think their bigotry is justified.
Matt X| 6.26.10 @ 3:38AM
I'd like to know what Rush said to this no-name Weigel guy that Weigel wished death on him. Or what Drudge did or said to this Weigel kid that he sneers that Drudge should set himself on fire.
Weigel is a lunatic....what sane person says crap like this?
Matt X| 6.26.10 @ 3:42AM
If Klein has friends like Weigel, I think that reflects poorly on him. I'm going to win any character battle with Weigel and people that see something good in this jackass.
REMEMBER NOVEMBER!| 6.26.10 @ 1:27PM
All the slimy liberals are crawling out from under their rocks to defend Klein. Lovely.
Anderson| 6.26.10 @ 12:37PM
It must be depressing to Klein and people who publish the Spectator to see comments like these, suggesting as they do that the magazine is publishing for cretins. I'm confident they had hoped for something better.
REMEMBER NOVEMBER!| 6.26.10 @ 1:23PM
Anderson, I think you should set yourself on fire!
Now, there's a cretin LIKE YOU, hateful moron.
Phil's being defended by Marxists! What a hoot!
GammyHall| 6.26.10 @ 12:59PM
Stephen Hayes of Weekly Standard just summed up the whole thing in one neat tweet. This only goes for liberal journalists btw.
@stephenfhayes It's rather amusing that journalists who would publish nat security secrets in a heartbeat are furious about leaked journo emails. Telling
Joe| 6.26.10 @ 1:26PM
I agree. Last night, I was yelling exactly that at Geraldo Rivera as he was whining about the Rolling Stone reporter's treatment of General McChrystal.
What a joke!
Matt X| 6.26.10 @ 1:58PM
If American Spec does not like conservatives scoffing at their silly defense of some liberal reporter who does not deserve it, we can take our traffic somewhere else. If you can't even criticize Dan Weigel, what good are you, as a conservative publication?
Abe Froman | 6.26.10 @ 3:08PM
Only the admins know for sure, but I get the distinct impression that almost every lefty comment here is from the same dimwit under different names.
Publius804| 6.27.10 @ 11:05AM
A better take on th is controversy:
http://hotair.com/archives/201.....kerfuffle/
Key quote:
"Weigel used JournoList for exactly the purpose its critics suspected it would be used, i.e., to attempt to shape media coverage for the benefit of the Left. And he did it more than once."
Your good buddy Mr. Klein, did what conservatives accuse liberal journalists of doing all the time.
Harrison | 6.27.10 @ 12:36PM
If you're tasked with covering a group you don't make snarky, mean comments about that group then send it to hundreds of people. Poor judgment.
Nate| 6.27.10 @ 1:27PM
Magnify that by a million and you've got the Lame Stream Media.
Matt X| 6.27.10 @ 6:27PM
The day Klein defends a hack like Weigel because he's a friend, we will have a point. That day has come. Teh heh.
jcp370| 6.28.10 @ 12:05AM
Well, gee, if he was a good friend of yours, then that's OK, no matter what he said or tried to do or that he lied. And Tom Coburn says Nancy Pelosi is a nice person.
So everything must be OK then. The small people apologize for making a fuss.
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