Following up on John's excellent
post on the Israeli flotilla incident, I'd just like to add
that this is yet another example of how Israel gets itself into
trouble when it tries to play nice and goes out of its way to
appease the international community. In this case,
terrorist-linked extremists posing as a human rights workers were
seeking to prevent Israel from enforcing a Naval blockade that is
in place to stop a terrorist group dedicated to Israel's
destruction from importing weapons. Yet instead of preparing to
confront violent extremists, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak
was more concerned with world opinion, so he sent commandoes into
a situation in which they were being beaten by a mob, and only
authorized to use paint guns.
Had Israelis actually planned for how to deal with violent
passengers and shown from the get go that they meant business,
it's less likely they would have ended up needing to use lethal
force. But once the IDF was forced to choose between letting its
soldiers get beaten to death or opening fire, lethal force was
the obvious consequence.
In a strong piece, Caroline Glick
documents the all the warning signs that the flotilla would
be filled with suicide protesters who were part of a Turkish
terrorist group posing as a human rights organization, and
explains why Israel lost the information war:
(I)t is clear that Israel's information strategy for contending
with the flotilla was ill-conceived. Rather than attack Turkey
for its facilitation of terrorism, and openly prepare charge
sheets against the flotilla's organizers, crew and passengers
for their facilitation of terrorism in breach of both Israeli
domestic law and international law, Israel's information
efforts were largely concentrated on irrelevancies. Israeli
officials detailed all the humanitarian assistance Israel has
provided Hamas-controlled Gaza. They spoke of the Navy's
commitment to use non-lethal force to take over the
ships.
And now, in the aftermath of the lethal takeover of the
flotilla, Israel's leaders stammer. Rather than demand an
apology from the Turkish government for its support for these
terrorists, Defense Minister Ehud Barak called his Turkish
counterpart to talk over what happened. Rather than demand
restitution for the terrorist assault against Israeli troops,
Israel has defended its troops' moral training in non-violent
crowd control.
These efforts are worse than worthless. They make Israel appear
whiny rather than indignant. And more depressingly, they expose
a dangerous lack of basic comprehension about what has just
occurred and a concomitant inability to prepare for what will
most certainly follow.
In the wake of the flotilla incident, Israel has managed to look
weak and confused, while still earning the condemnation of the
world. We saw this on a much larger scale in the 2006 Lebanon
War, as then Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's indecisiveness hindered
the operation against Hezbollah, and triggered the fury of the
international community anyway. With Obama in the White House,
Israel has lost its one reliable ally. Israeli leaders would be
better off simply concentrating on getting the job done right,
rather then attempt to win over a world that is consumed with
hatred for the Jewish state.
Let us start with this: No matter what the Israeli government
does it will be the wrong response for someone--including those
who support Israel. Having said that I will say this:The worst
possible mistake would have been to let the flotilla go thru. As
I understand it there will be a repeat performance. What I hope
Netenyahu does is this: In advance tell the turkish government
that any further attempt to get by Israeli security will be seen
as a hostile action and handled in that regard. Period. Let the
Turks stew on that.
I practice, one verbal warning,one warning shot then bingo sink
any boat that refuses commands.
That is what should be done.
Let us remember that not thing that Israel has done even with GWB
at the helm has recieved total US government support. There is
always "what will the US do when" a UN resolution is voted on.
The one thing that the State of Israel must not do is to let the
flotilla thru. One other thing. The Netenyahu government has been
threatened by OBama ( the exact nature I am sure is under wraps )
and so whatever can be done always has to been seen in this
light. But, having said that I also believe that there are times
when
Isreali survival must be the overriding factor. We may there
right now.
Alan Brooks| 6.1.10 @ 8:43PM
as Patton said, Al Sobiades had the correct strategy: go for the
jugular.
The jugular at this time is Ahmadinejad's regime.
warey| 6.1.10 @ 12:01PM
If Somalian pirates stormed a US Aid ship delivering humanitarian
aid to Ethiopia and gunned down 19 US aid workers, and then had
the GAUL to blame the deaths on Aid workers defending themselves
with sticks and knives and whatever else they could get hold of.
The world would put the somalians in a mental hospital and not
Jail.
Yet the ridiculous idea that Israel can savage an INTERNATIONAL
humanitarian Aid convoy seeking to break its ILLEGAL seige of
Gaza (A War Crime) and be the victim is madness.
In the past month. Israel has butchered dozens of Palestinans it
holds in the largest prison in the world that is Gaza. It has
bombed civilian infrastructure , laughed at the International
CONSENSUS demanding it join the NPT. Had hundreds of children
testify they where sexually abused and mistreated in Israeli
Dungeons, and spent the whole month beating its war drums against
Lebanon, Syria and Iran.
Israel is a Lunatic Rogue state with NUKES. Your ridiculous
article in support of this Apartheid State is a support for the
rise of Anti Semitism and attacks on the Jewish Diaspora. Many
great Jews have long feared Israels actions will be seen as a
reflection on the Jewish Diaspora because Israel claims to act in
their name.
societyis2blame| 6.1.10 @ 1:47PM
Please hit the "Back" button and return to HuffPo, troll. The big
kids are trying to read the news here.
JP| 6.1.10 @ 3:27PM
The Isrealis do not stop any aid shipements to Gaza as long as
the organizations allow the Isrealis to inspect every container.
The Gaza area enjoys over $3 billion of free aid a year. This
floatilla refused to enter an inspection yard; they knew what
they were doing. Save your nonsense for the Huffpo
Joe Hamilton| 6.1.10 @ 4:07PM
Why hasn't the "Lunatic Rogue state with Nukes" ever used them in
any of the war that have been forced on them? Lunatic and mental
hospital seem to describe you and where you just escaped from.
J. F. Wind| 6.1.10 @ 12:03PM
The prime question is - Whose side is Ehud Barak on? As PM he
showed the world (and especially the Arabs) something they had
never seen before - the back of an Israeli soldier! Now this. Was
he trying to maximize Israeli casualties?
JmsA| 6.1.10 @ 12:58PM
Why is anyone surprised by the Ehud Barak's performance? He
allowed Bill Clinton to talk him into making all kinds of
concessions to Yasser Arafat in the mid 90's, only to have the
latter incite intifada.
C.H. Fowler| 6.1.10 @ 12:08PM
Israel must always understand that the end game for much of the
world, especially the Left and even Obama, is the end of Israel.
Maneuvers, tactics, strategies, and diplomacy will change as the
situation demands for the Israel haters. But the goal won't.
Given this obvious fact, why pay so much respect to the "world's"
opinion?
Once I see trolls I have seen them all: Warey that is you. The
flotilla WAS NOT A HUMANITARIAN EFFORT. IT WAS A HOLLYWOOD
PRODUCED PRODUCTION for pure provocation and propaganda. It is an
act of war. Don't agree--too bad.
Are you a fool or do you only play one on TV? You believe
haaretz.com which is as pro-Israel as Obama is pro-American is
balanced?
Frog in Uniform| 6.1.10 @ 1:28PM
Fuck You Warey! You're probably an arab-American or a dumb muslim
and we shouldn't give a rat's ass about the so called victims of
the Israeli operation. As a frog living in Frogland, I see
everyday muslims playing victims while victimizing the whole frog
society. Sometimes what goes around comes around even for
arrogant and double talking jerks. Congratulations, Israel! Way
to go!
annie jung| 6.1.10 @ 3:26PM
to warey:
ask yourself this: if israel lay down its arms what would
happen?
if the palestinians lay down their arms, what would happen.
israel moved out of gaza and got rockets for its trouble. any
other country would have ended hamas's ability to make war.
the blockade was legal and the turkish ship could have docked in
egypt or israel and the supplies would hav e been transferred.
peaceful humanitarian missions do not hand out iron bars, knives,
and other weapons to their passengers.
you also make all kinds of unsupported assertions like israel is
torturing prisoners.
Israel partisans can support Israel. Palestinian partisans can
support Gaza. I don't care. All I care about is that the US be
neutral, which unfortunately we are not, much to our detriment.
Honey| 6.2.10 @ 10:50PM
Happy now, Red? I suppose you'll piss your pants with glee when
Israel is wiped off the map.
Asshole.
Tim*| 6.1.10 @ 5:24PM
United States National Interests trump Foreign Agendas.
Wesley Mouch| 6.1.10 @ 9:00PM
I want to know why anybody that opposes the policies of the state
of Israel is automatically an anti-Semite.
Interloper| 6.2.10 @ 10:48PM
Because you usually are, bigot.
Long Ben| 6.2.10 @ 12:50AM
In Israel freedom of conscience is a fundemental right, (compared
to all the despotic countries round about ). While it is true
that the Hasidic and other really orthodox Jews will sometimes
persecute Messianic Jews, they are not noted for
hacking off infidels heads , blowing things up or in general
ruining the neighborhood, as the outhouse crazy Mohhamadans have
done in Gaza , Lebanon and Betlehem , just to name a few locals.
To keep itself clear of International sanctions for accosting
contraband smugglers in international waters Israel should see to
it that the Arabs in thier midst
are completly land locked. As for the flaws of little
Judah , Zechariah 12 : 10 says they will come around.
martin j smith| 6.2.10 @ 8:04AM
Have any of you noticed some of the positng s on the isssue of
the fake humanitarian flotilla ? Oh of course you have the ususal
trolls like Phillipd. They post on many topics--but you have "
new posts" or apparently new as I use quotation marks. My hunch
is this could be a new crowd of people like " Warey" or " Wesley
Mouch" or " Joe Hamilton". These three I have never seen befor5e.
But for all I know they could be Liberal Reader of Liberal-what
was he called three-fifths Bob or whatever. But in my gut the
--yeah--I will say it --the Jew Haters--the racists--the
anti-Semites come out of the wood work whenever there is a issue
involving Israel.
Now with regards Israel itself there are two issues that work in
my mind in understanding Israel's less than stellar miliary
performance. One is a division the in the government itself. Lets
be clear the Israeli people by vast majorities dislike Obama and
also want a more aggressive government. But when yopu have the
likes of Ehud Barak there among others there will be problems. It
would be as if Ronald Reagen as president and Hillary Clinton as
Military Chief of Staff or someething of that kind.
Another factor is US pressure-read threats towards Israel. " Its
our way or the highway" . This is a common threat with all US
presidents--some more than others. . There is a common threat
from GWB and Obama when you examine Israel's response ot
Hizbullah.
These among other factors cannot be ignored.
As for the Hatred coming into this system ( Site ) that is what
it is. Hatred pure and simple. From now on I will identify it as
such.
For the record: My definition of an anti-semite( antiJew )
includes the following: Any person who persistantly attacks the
State Of Isreal without regards Israel's vulnerabiity in a much
larger Muslim world Those who point to the US as a " great
friend" of Israel can point to that no longer.
I will add one more thing: There are many who are reluctant to
call BHO an anti-semite. That is there problem. He is certainly
Anti-Israel--not at all a friend. Here is the point where I
disagree with my peers. If, as I beleive Israel is the "living
memorial" to the 6 mil who diesd in the Holocaust ( yes I know
the Holocaust deniers are out there too ) an you are willing to
abandon its people--then I have a hard time saying that BHO is
not underneath it all an anti-semite. Even a Jew like Rom
Emmanuel was recently labeled an anti-semite in a recent visit to
Israel. You may be a Jew, but you aint Kosher is what can be said
of him
Sean| 6.2.10 @ 8:25AM
Jew hater=anyone that criticizes Israel. antisemite=anyone that
criticizes Israel. Self hating Jew=a Jew that criticizes Israel.
We got it Al Sharpton.
Sean| 6.3.10 @ 7:41AM
Nice name calling. You never could argue on facts could you.
martin j smith| 6.1.10 @ 11:52AM
Let us start with this: No matter what the Israeli government does it will be the wrong response for someone--including those who support Israel. Having said that I will say this:The worst possible mistake would have been to let the flotilla go thru. As I understand it there will be a repeat performance. What I hope Netenyahu does is this: In advance tell the turkish government that any further attempt to get by Israeli security will be seen as a hostile action and handled in that regard. Period. Let the Turks stew on that.
I practice, one verbal warning,one warning shot then bingo sink any boat that refuses commands.
That is what should be done.
Let us remember that not thing that Israel has done even with GWB at the helm has recieved total US government support. There is always "what will the US do when" a UN resolution is voted on. The one thing that the State of Israel must not do is to let the flotilla thru. One other thing. The Netenyahu government has been threatened by OBama ( the exact nature I am sure is under wraps ) and so whatever can be done always has to been seen in this light. But, having said that I also believe that there are times when
Isreali survival must be the overriding factor. We may there right now.
Alan Brooks| 6.1.10 @ 8:43PM
as Patton said, Al Sobiades had the correct strategy: go for the jugular.
The jugular at this time is Ahmadinejad's regime.
warey| 6.1.10 @ 12:01PM
If Somalian pirates stormed a US Aid ship delivering humanitarian aid to Ethiopia and gunned down 19 US aid workers, and then had the GAUL to blame the deaths on Aid workers defending themselves with sticks and knives and whatever else they could get hold of. The world would put the somalians in a mental hospital and not Jail.
Yet the ridiculous idea that Israel can savage an INTERNATIONAL humanitarian Aid convoy seeking to break its ILLEGAL seige of Gaza (A War Crime) and be the victim is madness.
In the past month. Israel has butchered dozens of Palestinans it holds in the largest prison in the world that is Gaza. It has bombed civilian infrastructure , laughed at the International CONSENSUS demanding it join the NPT. Had hundreds of children testify they where sexually abused and mistreated in Israeli Dungeons, and spent the whole month beating its war drums against Lebanon, Syria and Iran.
Israel is a Lunatic Rogue state with NUKES. Your ridiculous article in support of this Apartheid State is a support for the rise of Anti Semitism and attacks on the Jewish Diaspora. Many great Jews have long feared Israels actions will be seen as a reflection on the Jewish Diaspora because Israel claims to act in their name.
societyis2blame| 6.1.10 @ 1:47PM
Please hit the "Back" button and return to HuffPo, troll. The big kids are trying to read the news here.
JP| 6.1.10 @ 3:27PM
The Isrealis do not stop any aid shipements to Gaza as long as the organizations allow the Isrealis to inspect every container. The Gaza area enjoys over $3 billion of free aid a year. This floatilla refused to enter an inspection yard; they knew what they were doing. Save your nonsense for the Huffpo
Joe Hamilton| 6.1.10 @ 4:07PM
Why hasn't the "Lunatic Rogue state with Nukes" ever used them in any of the war that have been forced on them? Lunatic and mental hospital seem to describe you and where you just escaped from.
J. F. Wind| 6.1.10 @ 12:03PM
The prime question is - Whose side is Ehud Barak on? As PM he showed the world (and especially the Arabs) something they had never seen before - the back of an Israeli soldier! Now this. Was he trying to maximize Israeli casualties?
JmsA| 6.1.10 @ 12:58PM
Why is anyone surprised by the Ehud Barak's performance? He allowed Bill Clinton to talk him into making all kinds of concessions to Yasser Arafat in the mid 90's, only to have the latter incite intifada.
C.H. Fowler| 6.1.10 @ 12:08PM
Israel must always understand that the end game for much of the world, especially the Left and even Obama, is the end of Israel. Maneuvers, tactics, strategies, and diplomacy will change as the situation demands for the Israel haters. But the goal won't. Given this obvious fact, why pay so much respect to the "world's" opinion?
Willliam R| 6.1.10 @ 12:35PM
Ohhh Brother, Ive heard it all now.
http://tiny.cc/colrh
Lift the press blackout Israel
martin j smith| 6.1.10 @ 12:41PM
Once I see trolls I have seen them all: Warey that is you. The flotilla WAS NOT A HUMANITARIAN EFFORT. IT WAS A HOLLYWOOD PRODUCED PRODUCTION for pure provocation and propaganda. It is an act of war. Don't agree--too bad.
William R| 6.1.10 @ 2:12PM
For a more balanced view of what happened
http://www.haaretz.com/print-e.....d-1.293417
http://www.salon.com/news/opin.....index.html
Joe Hamilton| 6.1.10 @ 4:03PM
Are you a fool or do you only play one on TV? You believe haaretz.com which is as pro-Israel as Obama is pro-American is balanced?
Frog in Uniform| 6.1.10 @ 1:28PM
Fuck You Warey! You're probably an arab-American or a dumb muslim and we shouldn't give a rat's ass about the so called victims of the Israeli operation. As a frog living in Frogland, I see everyday muslims playing victims while victimizing the whole frog society. Sometimes what goes around comes around even for arrogant and double talking jerks. Congratulations, Israel! Way to go!
annie jung| 6.1.10 @ 3:26PM
to warey:
ask yourself this: if israel lay down its arms what would happen?
if the palestinians lay down their arms, what would happen.
israel moved out of gaza and got rockets for its trouble. any other country would have ended hamas's ability to make war.
the blockade was legal and the turkish ship could have docked in egypt or israel and the supplies would hav e been transferred. peaceful humanitarian missions do not hand out iron bars, knives, and other weapons to their passengers.
you also make all kinds of unsupported assertions like israel is torturing prisoners.
you are an anti semite and an ill informed moron.
AT
Blackwatch| 6.1.10 @ 6:03PM
well said.
Red Phillips| 6.1.10 @ 4:31PM
Israel partisans can support Israel. Palestinian partisans can support Gaza. I don't care. All I care about is that the US be neutral, which unfortunately we are not, much to our detriment.
Honey| 6.2.10 @ 10:50PM
Happy now, Red? I suppose you'll piss your pants with glee when Israel is wiped off the map.
Asshole.
Tim*| 6.1.10 @ 5:24PM
United States National Interests trump Foreign Agendas.
Wesley Mouch| 6.1.10 @ 9:00PM
I want to know why anybody that opposes the policies of the state of Israel is automatically an anti-Semite.
Interloper| 6.2.10 @ 10:48PM
Because you usually are, bigot.
Long Ben| 6.2.10 @ 12:50AM
In Israel freedom of conscience is a fundemental right, (compared to all the despotic countries round about ). While it is true that the Hasidic and other really orthodox Jews will sometimes persecute Messianic Jews, they are not noted for
hacking off infidels heads , blowing things up or in general ruining the neighborhood, as the outhouse crazy Mohhamadans have done in Gaza , Lebanon and Betlehem , just to name a few locals. To keep itself clear of International sanctions for accosting contraband smugglers in international waters Israel should see to it that the Arabs in thier midst
are completly land locked. As for the flaws of little
Judah , Zechariah 12 : 10 says they will come around.
martin j smith| 6.2.10 @ 8:04AM
Have any of you noticed some of the positng s on the isssue of the fake humanitarian flotilla ? Oh of course you have the ususal trolls like Phillipd. They post on many topics--but you have " new posts" or apparently new as I use quotation marks. My hunch is this could be a new crowd of people like " Warey" or " Wesley Mouch" or " Joe Hamilton". These three I have never seen befor5e. But for all I know they could be Liberal Reader of Liberal-what was he called three-fifths Bob or whatever. But in my gut the --yeah--I will say it --the Jew Haters--the racists--the anti-Semites come out of the wood work whenever there is a issue involving Israel.
Now with regards Israel itself there are two issues that work in my mind in understanding Israel's less than stellar miliary performance. One is a division the in the government itself. Lets be clear the Israeli people by vast majorities dislike Obama and also want a more aggressive government. But when yopu have the likes of Ehud Barak there among others there will be problems. It would be as if Ronald Reagen as president and Hillary Clinton as Military Chief of Staff or someething of that kind.
Another factor is US pressure-read threats towards Israel. " Its our way or the highway" . This is a common threat with all US presidents--some more than others. . There is a common threat from GWB and Obama when you examine Israel's response ot Hizbullah.
These among other factors cannot be ignored.
As for the Hatred coming into this system ( Site ) that is what it is. Hatred pure and simple. From now on I will identify it as such.
For the record: My definition of an anti-semite( antiJew ) includes the following: Any person who persistantly attacks the State Of Isreal without regards Israel's vulnerabiity in a much larger Muslim world Those who point to the US as a " great friend" of Israel can point to that no longer.
I will add one more thing: There are many who are reluctant to call BHO an anti-semite. That is there problem. He is certainly Anti-Israel--not at all a friend. Here is the point where I disagree with my peers. If, as I beleive Israel is the "living memorial" to the 6 mil who diesd in the Holocaust ( yes I know the Holocaust deniers are out there too ) an you are willing to abandon its people--then I have a hard time saying that BHO is not underneath it all an anti-semite. Even a Jew like Rom Emmanuel was recently labeled an anti-semite in a recent visit to Israel. You may be a Jew, but you aint Kosher is what can be said of him
Sean| 6.2.10 @ 8:25AM
Jew hater=anyone that criticizes Israel. antisemite=anyone that criticizes Israel. Self hating Jew=a Jew that criticizes Israel. We got it Al Sharpton.
Sean| 6.3.10 @ 7:41AM
Nice name calling. You never could argue on facts could you.
Interloper| 6.3.10 @ 5:31PM
Truth hurts, doesn't it, ASSHOLE?
Bigot.