The Spectacle Blog
Social Justice and Detroit’s Decay
Marvin Olasky today discusses the debate on “social justice” between Glenn Beck and Jim Wallis, and relates his personal experience with the Leftist evangelist.
Marvin Olasky today discusses the debate on “social justice” between Glenn Beck and Jim Wallis, and relates his personal experience with the Leftist evangelical:
Do those historical wrinkles mean that the term should not be used? No, but it should certainly be defined. We can study the 150 or so times that mishpat in Hebrew and kreesis in Greek—words commonly translated as “justice”—appear in the Bible. Biblically, justice—tied to righteousness—is what promotes faith in God, not faith in government. Prophets criticized not entrepreneurs but those who combined economic and political power to lord it over others, as today’s bureaucrats and corporate/government partnerships tend to do.
I can understand Glenn Beck’s frustration. As the Beck-Wallis tempest swirled on March 11, I spent 3½ hours in a long-arranged debate with Wallis at Cedarville University. He kept trying to position himself as a centrist rather than a big government proponent. Furthermore, modern usage by liberal preachers and journalists is thoroughly unbiblical: Many equate social justice with fighting a free enterprise system that purportedly keeps people poor but in reality is their best economic hope.
The City of Detroit offers a perfect illustration of the effects of 50 years of government “social justice” programs, as Pajamas Media’s Steven Crowder explained in December:
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Becky| 3.31.10 @ 11:03AM
Hence the confusion among the unbelievers. Wallis' type of Christianity reminds me of the theraputic model and is attractive to those looking inward or to the self for justification.
One of the most beautiful books of the Bible, Ruth, follows one of the darker OT books, Judges.
It is used in many marriage ceremonies, " Where you go......." Ruth was a gleaner. She went to the fields after the harvest to collect the leftovers. She did not steal, for the farmers permitted and actually left some for that purpose.
The Isrealites complained when God rained manna from heaven.
Eric Cartman| 3.31.10 @ 11:04AM
Welcome to teh United States of Detroit. Scratch that. The United States of Obama. Detroit has been run by Black, racist, radical Democrats since Mayor Coleman "Mush-Mouth" Young. Add to this the UAW and scumbag Liberals in General, and you have the craphole that is going to be America soon. Since I'm probably the only poster here that actually attended Detroit schools for 2-years, I'm open for any of the ahole liberal who posts here to debate.
Cheryl | 7.22.10 @ 7:34PM
Giffles and Rosetti ? who do you know that worked there?
Derek Leaberry| 3.31.10 @ 11:12AM
A city is only as good as its people. the people of Detroit enthusiastically supported Coleman "MFIC" Young for two decades. Detroit has proved how bad people can become.
Eric Cartman| 3.31.10 @ 11:52AM
My father was a Master Electrician (IBEW) who learned his trade at the school Henry Ford opened for orphans. He became a foremen for Giffles and Rosetti and was lead on many projects - Cobo Hall, Renaissance Center, Rouge River plant. We lived off Appleline near 6-mile. I was 4 or so. I can remember playing outside until dusk, riding our bikes to the park, etc. Now the area is a war zone with Da Pimps and Da Hos selling crack and stank - isn't the language colorful?
The kids I played with were white, black, Jewish and Catholic. Their parents - yup, we all had Mom's and Dads - took pride in what they did. Then Liberals and Victimhood moved in and we see what happened. When are Republicans going to hold up Detroit as the Democrat success story it is? Spineless putzes
Becky| 3.31.10 @ 11:21AM
For those of you who have never been there, it really is a mess. It did not happen in the last year, it has been going on for decades. My brother worked at a business on Woodward, where you could not park outside during the day, you had to drive around to the inside garage. That was a decade ago.
The tension between the city's last administration and the suburbs has been highly emotional and racial. I sense that the election of Dave Bing has helped quite a bit in easing those tensions. He seems much more serious about analyzing and synthesizing solutions rather than using his energy blaming.
Eric Cartman| 3.31.10 @ 11:31AM
Hi Becky,
It's too late for anybody to do anything about Detroit outside of matches and gasoline. It's a lost cause. We should encourage Iran to nuke the place, but how would anyone be able to tell?
Missy| 3.31.10 @ 7:41PM
Don't say that, Eric; don't give up on our country, never give up. We can't give up and I won't.
Teflon93| 3.31.10 @ 11:35AM
Wallis practices the heretical "liberation theology" Pope John Paul II extirpated from the Catholic Church in the 80s.
It is as discredited as Donatism.
Tim| 3.31.10 @ 1:46PM
Hmmmmm, donats..... (Homer drool)
Tim| 3.31.10 @ 11:43AM
I spent a year in Bosnia, the scene of some of the heaviest urban fighting since WWII and Detroit looks much worse. And they managed to do it without artillery.
Tim| 3.31.10 @ 11:45AM
Discovery channel has a series: "Life after People". The GOP should do a series of adds: "Life after Democrats".
Eric Cartman| 3.31.10 @ 11:58AM
LOL - that's funny. I'm stealing it! If the Republicans had any balls - don't hold your breath - they would stuff Detroit is the faces of Democrats and say "This is what you did to a once great city. Your policies, your people, your schemes, your corruption, your race-bating BS." But again, don't count on the spineless Republicans to have the guts to point out a truth.
Tim| 3.31.10 @ 1:45PM
Take it and God Bless.
Eric Cartman| 3.31.10 @ 12:24PM
Anybody notice anything? Where are all the ahole Liberal trolls defending Detroit's honor? Blaming whitey for fleeing the city? Getting the vapors over this? It's like they have some kind of liberal guilt and don't want to face it. Or maybe they're just getting the Obama or Soros talking points on it. Need to check with the Nazi collaborator first, I guess.
Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.31.10 @ 12:59PM
Cartman: Haven't you heard? The internet hasn't made it to Detroit yet. So nobody there at the moment, even knows you're insulting them. Every time they put the damn cable in, somebody comes along and steals it, and then buys crack!! It's a vicious cycle!!
Eric Cartman| 3.31.10 @ 1:17PM
LOL - oh yeah! I forgot.
Gold BC| 3.31.10 @ 12:47PM
I suggest Mayor Bing appoint hometown boy Mitt Romney "Minister of Economic Justice". Romney is an economic genius - businessman extraordinaire. He proved it by bankrupting the Bay State with his health care boondoggle, the blue print for the national plan, therefore he will feel right at home in the Motor City. Detroit Cheers!
Liberal Reader| 3.31.10 @ 12:56PM
"Social justice" need not be a biblical concept for Christians to embrace it.
Not all concepts need issue forth from the Bible.
The Bible does not, for example, lay out a Constitution for the good governance of a nation by a democratic process.
Indeed, the political systems recognized by the Bible as just would be intolerable to almost everyone today.
"Social justice" as it is used by Christians -- Christians who can fairly be characterized as liberal, moderate, AND conservative -- is not necessarily an adherence to a specific political agenda.
I think its a larger, more capacious concept and it offers space for people of diverse political philosophies.
What it does NOT offer space to is straight libertarianism -- the idea that the government structures of -- say -- 1875 were ideal.
But if you believe as citizens we have a moral obligation to consider the needy and the oppressed, you've signed on for all you need sign on for to be considered someone who values "social justice."
If that concern manifests itself in advocating for micro-loans that use the power of markets to lift people out of poverty, then good for you.
I don't think a concern about "social justice" constrains you to any particular philosophy about the so-called "size" of government.
(Incidentally, let us give up this metaphor of "size" of government. It's a stupid metaphor that misleads people. What conservatives and liberals generally debate over is WHAT government should and should not DO. Not it's size.)
Eric Cartman| 3.31.10 @ 1:15PM
I see the Nazi collaborator has issued talking points. Well, government certainly DID a lot to Detroit, didn't it? Big help, huh? Got that place running like a clock. Ship shape! Really fixed that crappy old city that, oh wait . . . I got that mixed up because of Ahole Reader's rapier-like logic. Almost had me thinking Detroit WAS a crap hole and NOW is a paradise because of all that "Social Justice" and "let us give up this metaphor of 'size"'of government" talk. Then I remembered who Ahole Liberals are and it all came back to me. Then again, maybe we should give micro-loans to all the Crack Hos and Pimp Daddies and they could pool the money and start a Casino, because everyone knows casinos bring in money and, oh, wait, Detroit has casinos only no one goes to them because DETROIT IS A CRAP HOLE! LOL Wow, Liberals are such assholes!
Liberal Reader| 3.31.10 @ 2:32PM
You're calling me a "Nazi collaborator"?
What is your problem?
People can have a debate without saying that sort of thing.
Most courageous that you can adopt this kind of hate speech on an anonymous internet thread.
Maybe you want to reconsider the kind of man you want to be and the kind of citizen.
SoCon| 3.31.10 @ 7:45PM
Hmmmm, looks like the moniker is catching on.
Obviously, you don't see what we see, LR.
SoCon| 3.31.10 @ 7:52PM
"Nazi collaborator" that's great! I love that one, can I use it, too, Eric?
D.R.| 4.4.10 @ 5:31PM
LR... I am sure you did not get this in school, but Nazi is the shortened form of Nationale Sozialistische Partei or in English - National Socialist Party. Oh, and by the way before Hitler went all coocoo for cocoa puffs... he did a lot of talk about "hope and change" I have German relatives who lived there during that time that can support this, but then again, all you or anyone has to do is LISTEN and LEARN from history, but we all know that to do that one must first open ones ears.
Charles W. Brown, Ph.D. | 5.17.10 @ 10:47PM
I agree that social justice has nothing to do with any religion, in fact just the opposite. The first step in social justice begins at home by limiting the number children a family has to ONE (or a second by accident) but no more. The world is about 2 to 3 billion people the earth's carrying capacity. For a family to have more than two children violates social justice and is very selfish.
Think globally and act locally!
Charles W. Brown, Ph.D. | 5.17.10 @ 10:59PM
Correction: The world population is actually estimated to be 4oo million over the carrying capacity of the planet. The more we exceed the earth's carrying capacity, the greater will be environmental detioration, famine, war, and food riots.
Eric Cartman| 3.31.10 @ 3:14PM
I was referring to George Soros - he was a Nazi collaborator, no? It was a quip about Liberal talking points. And there is NO debate as to what wrecked the city of Detroit. None. Racist blacks, Liberal policies and the Democrat party. Period!
Liberal Reader| 3.31.10 @ 5:01PM
"Racist blacks."
Yes, racist blacks are a huge problem in America historically. Definitely.
I don't know why I questioned your judgment.
SoCon| 3.31.10 @ 7:47PM
I believe liberals are racist because you practice 'plantation politics' that keep many poor minorities living in inner-city squalor.
You never have an answer for your failure, either--you just don't care.
Conservative Reader| 3.31.10 @ 4:31PM
"Most courageous that you can adopt this kind of hate speech on an anonymous internet thread."
Thus says the hypocrite!
Troll Watch| 3.31.10 @ 6:25PM
Great posts Eric C. I think the LR is playing good cop/bad cop. One day he accuses people of racism the next he cries foul. Anybody that has been to Detroit knows exactly what you mean including Black racists. The city is what happens when you follow the prescriptions of the liberals. Blacks have controlled that city for 30 years and make up the power structure. They have been openly racist. That said the downfall of the city was caused by them being liberal and corrupt (pardon the duplication). The LR seemed pretty defensive about being accused of being a Nazi collaborator. I think he collaborates with a Nazi collaborator though.
SoCon| 3.31.10 @ 7:49PM
You're right about the good/bad cop game LR plays; I prefer the nasty LR--the smarmy, suck-up LR makes my skin crawl.
Troll Watch| 4.1.10 @ 1:21AM
"I prefer the nasty LR--the smarmy, suck-up LR makes my skin crawl. "
Same here. The same gal doing good cop/bad cop is frankly very stupid. It is natural to think that she has some kind of mental problem. She is warming up below but still disappointing. She is good for morale when you think about it.
Liberal Reader| 3.31.10 @ 11:09PM
Troll Watch
You're even more of an idiot than SoCon. I thought that might be impossible. I don't know. Maybe you're the same dunce posting under two different names -- in which case the two of you should fight it out, which one is the duller.
Nick| 4.1.10 @ 12:03AM
I notice you will not defend all the racist democrats in congress today, Frothy Reader. Why is that?
Everyone knows John Lewis is a racist. So is San Fran Gran Nan. So is Barney Frank. Don't forget FDR. Eleanor was also a racist.
And so was Coleman Young. As someone who was born,raised, and still lives in the metro-Detroit area, Young was the only mayor of Detroit I knew growing up.
The citizens of Detroit re-elected that racist crook for 20 years. Same goes for the city council.
The wrecking ball that Jerome Cavanagh started in the 60's was finished by Coleman Young the crook.
Now, the good people of Detroit elect to office people like Commie Kilpatrik and Monica Conyers.
Eric Cartman| 4.1.10 @ 9:57AM
Hi Nick -
Mayor Mush Mouth was a piece of work, wasn't he? Ahloe Reader knows what I'm talking about. He's just an Ahloe attempting to deflect blame and change the subject. Would love to drop him off on 12th street so he could get a good dose of black racism up close and personal - LOL
Nick| 4.1.10 @ 11:13AM
Mr. Cartman,
Good one!
I would bet Fascist Reader would change a myriad of his philosophical views, if we also stuck him the Cass Corridor.
Especially the Second Amendment!
Alas, at least they can't take Motown away from us.
Eric Cartman| 4.1.10 @ 1:47PM
Oh yeah! Cass would do him well, lol. Or Jefferson Ave down by Sinbad's (is it still there?) LOL! Ya know, unless you have lived the Motown experience, ya just don't know. Dianna Ross used to live a few blocks from us back in the day. My mom says she was a very nice girl - along with the other Supremes. The Detroit of those days was vastly different that what came out of the Liberal cocoon. Really disgusting people now. Ahole Reader should put his money where his mealy mouth is. Come on, take a little walk around Detroit, AR! Don't wimp out.
SoCon| 4.1.10 @ 3:48PM
Dianna Ross was something else, wasn't she? She put today's pop singers to shame.
That girl had class and style.
Eric Cartman| 4.1.10 @ 3:53PM
She sure was - all the Supremes were. And they had to put up with REAL racism (sponsored by the Democrat party). I look back at people like that, like Willie Mays and Louie Armstrong , who just outclassed the racists, were just better people, and weep at what has happened to blacks following Liberals. What a mess.
SoCon| 4.1.10 @ 6:02PM
Motown music was awesome; it's still some of my favorite music. I was a white girl on the west coast and I wanted to be like Dianna Ross--she had a lot of charisma, still does.
I share your grief regarding the hit-job liberals have done on the black community--what a waste. It didn't have to happen and it shouldn't have happened.
Nick| 4.2.10 @ 6:53PM
What a coincidence you brought up The Supremes, SoCon.
For the past few days, I haven't been able to get enough of "Love is Like an Itching in My Heart", a song that never gets enough play.
Man! I love that song.
The Supremes and The Funk Brothers at their best, I think. Maybe one of Motowns best ever. Although, that would be a big list!
SoCon| 4.1.10 @ 11:17AM
Screeder, you're a chick? Wow, who knew? You do sound pretty b!tchy and unhinged at times.
Why would I fight with my friend, the suave and debonair Troll Watch, when I can slap a real troll like you around?
Have a nice day, Screeder--April Fools! Haha.
Tish | 3.31.10 @ 9:24PM
First, stop calling it the "religious left." There is no such thing, and Jim Wallis proves why. The left doesn't believe in religion, only the state. Religion is merely a tool to be used to trick and control others who may believe in religion. All you need do is substitute your statist norms for their religious ones.
Dave Granger| 4.21.10 @ 12:13AM
Yup, this is all down to socialism. Look at Germany, where there are higher taxes, stronger unions and better conditions for workers than the US. Their car industry is in ruins isn't it?