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The Spectacle Blog
Daniel Larison’s column in the Week strikes me as about right.
View all comments (28) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by W. James Antle, III
http://spectator.org/blog/2010/02/03/the-paleo-case-for-intervening
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Margie| 2.3.10 @ 2:01PM
Larison says:
"As a general rule, U.S. interventions are a symptom of Washington’s refusal to exercise power prudently. Most of the time, the reasons given for intervention are pretexts to establish a military or political foothold in a region, and far from coming to the aid of the established government, most interventions are directed at undermining or destroying them (see Iraq)."
According to this liar we are undermining and/or destroying Iraq? This guy is a creep. He slaps America in the face while claiming to want to help Haiti for all the right reasons.
Real nice man.
S.L. Toddard| 2.3.10 @ 5:05PM
Marge, there is absolutely no doubt that America - or, rather, our government - destroyed "the established government" of Iraq, as Larison wrote. It no longer exists, if you haven't heard.
Alan Brooks| 2.3.10 @ 9:45PM
One would think libertopians such as yourself would celebrate the destruction of governments.
Alan Brooks| 2.3.10 @ 11:45PM
I just don't get it all that you guys would defend the Confederacy in any way.
Does it hurt to say "Lincoln was a @%&9
but Confederates were sh*ts too"?
S.L. Toddard| 2.4.10 @ 7:22AM
No, that's fine to say. But it's besides the point - the issue is that states have a right to withdraw from the compact they agreed to when they ratified the Constitution if they determine the federal government has violated that compact/Constitution.
bluecollarbytes| 2.4.10 @ 9:45AM
Larison can't guarantee that He won't turn against his vision of 'American help that does no harm' when it suits his politics and ideological bias.
Of course we're going to throw billions into Haiti over time. I don't expect anything to change in Haiti until/unless there is a transformation of its 'cultural infrastructure'.
Red Phillips | 2.3.10 @ 2:39PM
Margie, Larison is a non-interventionist conservative just like Toddard and I. I know it is hard for you to grasp, but not every conservative is an interventionist. His analysis of foreign affairs is some of the most informed you will find, even though I disagree with him on a few issues. Expand your mind Margie. Move beyond your Hannity/Limbaugh bubble.
victor| 2.3.10 @ 3:06PM
Better "Red than Dead" Phillips:
"Larison is a non-interventionist conservative just like Toddard and I."
For all you non-grammarian interventionists,
that should be "Toddard and ME".
"but not every conservative is an interventionist."
Didn't you mean to say that "not every Non-interventionist is a conservative"?
You should move beyond the Buchanan, Rockwell and Raimondo bubble, eh?
Red Phillips | 2.3.10 @ 3:39PM
Not every non-interventionist is a conservative. Many are libertarians. But contrary to popular belief, few principled non-interventionists are liberals, because liberals tend to be globalist "liberal internationalists" and support multilateral and humanitarian interventions (i.e. Serbia, Darfur, etc.). Principled non-interventionism is almost exclusively a conservative and libertarian phenomenon.
And victor, I will be glad to put my conservative credentials on issue after issue up next to yours any day of the week. Just click on my name to go to my blog. What kind of "better Red than dead" liberal has pictures of Calhoun, Burke, and de Maistre in the masthead of their website?
S.L. Toddard| 2.3.10 @ 5:38PM
If you think Victor has any idea who those men are you are kidding yourself.
Red Phillips | 2.3.10 @ 5:52PM
SLT, maybe he'll learn something when he looks them up on Wikipedia. :-)
Roy| 2.3.10 @ 9:01PM
Nonsense - college "anti-war" protesters were proud to howl and yibber against "bombing babies" in Kosovo. Heck, Cindy Sheehan called for an end to the "occupation" of New Orleans after Katrina.
For the first 10 minutes of Iraq, it was indeed about eliminating the "established government". For the susequent 7 years, it was about stabilizing the new one. That didn't stop the "anti-war" crowd.
Red Phillips | 2.4.10 @ 1:58PM
Roy, college anti-war protesters are, for the most part, not principled non-interventionists. Most of them are primarily anti-conservatives. That is why they are no longer protesting the war now that Obama is running it.
Alan Brooks| 2.3.10 @ 10:03PM
"You should move beyond the Buchanan...'
Buchanan's book on WWII is a travesty. Churchill traded half of Europe to Stalin, rather than lose all of Europe under Hitler. And we beat the Soviets later on. Buchanan just likes to write books, that's all.
Alan Brooks| 2.3.10 @ 9:52PM
"His analysis of foreign affairs is some of the most informed you will find, even though I disagree with him on a few issues. Expand your mind Margie. Move beyond your Hannity/Limbaugh bubble. "
Foreign affairs are too complicated.
But though I don't know about Iraq, for example, it doesn't seem just to defend the Confederacy. You might write "the North was violently imposing its 'system' on the South", which is correct, but southern morality was no better.
The really fair verdict would be that both sides in the Civil War got what they deserved. Robert E, Lee was a decent man-- but who gives squat about someone like Jefferson Davis? to Hell with him.
And to Hell with any of you who admire him.
But fairness is water in the desert.
Margie| 2.3.10 @ 2:47PM
Sure. As soon as the Paleo con artists move beyond the Blame America First bubble.
Alan Brooks| 2.3.10 @ 9:58PM
We agree for once, Margie-- you are not little Margie, you are Brave Margie.
Libertopians are free market-oriented, yes;
but they are radicals, not conservatives. That's entirely understandable. But why wont some of them admit they are crypto-libertarians or radical 'conservatives'?
What do they have to lose anymore by admitting what they are?
Margie| 2.3.10 @ 11:58PM
Thank you, Alan. I think.
Why won't they admit they are radicals? Because they know it's wrong.
What have they got to lose? Nothing.
Red Phillips | 2.4.10 @ 2:05PM
I am not a libertarian (small or large l), and have never claimed to be. I am a paleoconservative, plain and simple. I have no problem agreeing that given how far we have drifted from it, wanting to actually follow the Constitution is a radical idea. I just wish that mainstream conservatives would be as willing to acknowledge the great distance between what they support and what was intended by the Founders.
Dixie Pixie| 2.3.10 @ 2:59PM
David Larison's position is simply a restatement of the Stuart Smalley theory of occupations.
The theory simply stated is ::::
“ I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough and Doggone It, the Haitian People like Me! So It Is Alright to Occupy The Country.”
The theory fails every time it is tried. Six months into any occupation the people will rise up to throw out the occupiers. Eighteen months to two years into the occupation a full blown insurrection flames up.
The time to get out of Haiti is now, before the Haitian political demagogues start blaming the USA for Haitian caused problems.
William R| 2.3.10 @ 3:53PM
None of these people have heard of Russell Kirk father of modern conservatism. He was a non-interventionist.
S.L. Toddard| 2.3.10 @ 5:37PM
Too many of the readers and staff at AmSpec seem to despise the sort of conservatism that Kirk embraced and exemplified. Many readers seem to be only vaguely aware that 'conservatism' existed before Reagan, and not aware at all that it did so before WFB. They have swallowed hook, line and sinker the narrative peddled by the left wing and their media minions that conservatism did not exist before William F Buckley, and if it did it was in a discredited, ugly, embryonic form that is not worth remembering except for the purposes of ritual shaming. In this narrative, conservatism is defined (originally by the left, and so thoroughly have they poisoned political discourse through their control of the media that younger conservatives have accepted this definition without questioning it) as "pro-low taxes, pro-Big Business, pro-militarization". This way, there is no real political challenge to the Wilsonian imperialism that is almost universally advocated by the political-financial elite in Washington (of both parties), or the statism at home that is necessary to sustain that imperialism.
This is why government never shrinks, even when Republicans control congress and the White House: the priority of both parties is expanding American hegemony, and an imperialistic foreign policy (being incompatible with constitutional republicanism) requires a massive, complex bureaucratic state to maintain it.
Until conservatives learn to value liberty, tranquility, and small, unintrusive government over military dominance the size and scope and power of the state will continue to grow, and be wielded by elites that are more and more left wing.
Red Phillips | 2.3.10 @ 6:06PM
A common left-wing retelling is the Buckley "saved" conservatism from itself.
The "modern conservative movement" is often traced back to two post-war events, the publication of Kirk's The Conservative Mind and the founding of National Review. While it would be nice if Kirk really was the father of modern conservatism - he certainly deserves to be - it is closer to the truth that Buckley was. The modern "conservative" movement has never been able to shed its Cold War militarism and interventionism. Kirk's non-ideological calls to simply conserve things (go figure) got lost in all the hoopla that goes with saving the world from the Russkies. Who wants to talk about saving local communities when you have a world-wide ideological jihad to wage?
S.L. Toddard| 2.3.10 @ 6:31PM
Nothing in the above, by the way, was directed at Mr. Jim Antle.
Alan Brooks| 2.3.10 @ 11:39PM
Oh, c'mon, you suck up coward, Todd.
I was starting to like your writing, you are comprehensive; but then you are in effect saying above, "Mr. Antle, you are a Wilsonian neocon America- is-world-policeman, Western Jihadist... so F*ck you...but...
...have A Nice Day, anyway!
[kiss smoochy-smooch]"
Nothing Personal
S.L. Toddard| 2.4.10 @ 7:24AM
Sorry Mr. Brooks - that is just not true. Jim Antle is absolutely NOT a Wilsonian liberal internationalist. Those words, factually speaking, do not describe him.
Richard Baker| 2.3.10 @ 8:09PM
Give the nation of Haiti to the "Progressives",or Regressives as I call them, and let them work their magic on the citizens of that country. Carte blanche and off you go. How long do you think the final destruction of Haiti would take under their "capable" hands? Better yet, give Haiti to the Detroit City Council or the enlightened leaders, to include Maxine Waters, of Watts.
Margie| 2.3.10 @ 9:06PM
Thankfully, God doesn't need the Blame America First crowd to take care of Haiti. He's already taking care of them.