The American Spectator

Paul William Tenny| 1.5.10 @ 6:38PM

"..about the organized crime syndicate ACORN."

Erm, you do know that's libel, ..right?

ggoblue| 1.5.10 @ 7:48PM

haha dont hold your breath while they sue...that would mean they have to show up and testify under oath...and they might not get to pick the judge.

A Nonymous| 1.5.10 @ 6:44PM

You can't libel groups.

Paul William Tenny| 1.5.10 @ 7:02PM

Yes you can, you can libel an individual or a corporation. And I think calling a company an "organized crime syndicate" certainly qualifies as defamation.

Just sayin..

A Nonymous| 1.5.10 @ 7:12PM

Too bad they're an organized crime syndicate with a decades long track record of law breaking. Truth is an absolute defense to an action for defamation. A suit by ACORN would have about a zero percent chance of success. Plus it is political speech. That enjoys the highest level of protection under the First Amendment. Nice try, Tennytroll.

Paul William Tenny| 1.5.10 @ 8:53PM

1. Yes, truth is an affirmative defense against libel. Which is why this is libel: it's not the truth.

2. It's not political speech; ACORN is not a politician and has groups that don't deal with politics. ACORN has 400,000 members and operates in over a dozen countries. Saying the whole thing is a criminal enterprise is a classic case of libel at its core.

3. Troll? Why am I not at all surprised that the first person to disagree immediately lowers themselves to adolescent personal attacks. All it does is make you look incapable of making a reasoned argument. Although the fact that you don't have the courage to put your name to your words pretty much took care of any credibility your argument may have had to begin with.

Now, while it's certainly true that ACORN wouldn't waste time and money on this, the bigger lesson here is to not get into the habit of libeling people and things in general. Getting defamation judgments against people in courts in the U.K. (which can be filed by anyone regardless of where they live or where the supposed defamation happened) is extremely easy these days and it wouldn't take much more than this to set someone off.

Point in fact, my comments have nothing to do with ACORN in particular, but irresponsible behavior that can and does have legal consequences.

I'm offering sage advice here, Matthew would be wise to choose his words more carefully. Someday someone with an itchy trigger finger may not be gracious about being called a criminal as a matter of fact.

A Nonymous| 1.5.10 @ 10:26PM

So many errors in the above, so little time. You came here to be an ass and you succeeded. Therefore you are a troll by definition. Your webpage IDs you as an ass. You are a commie, in your own words. You are looking for a fight, not some enlightened Oxford debate so stop trying to claim the moral high ground.
I've been following this for a long time. ACORN is an organized criminal enterprise operating in contravention of federal racketeering statutes. In American law truth is not merely an affirmative defense; it is an absolute defense. All someone would have to do to establish a pattern of conduct under RICO would be list all the crimes ACORN employees have been convicted of over the years, its money laundering operations, abuse of government grant money, abusive corporate directorates, violation of tax exempt status, and so on as set out exhaustively in the Issa report. It is wholly political. It is a big corporate shell game designed to avoid scrutiny. To point this out is not defamatory. Members of Congress and all sorts of pundits routinely call ACORN a criminal outfit. ACORN can't go after them all, and even if it did it would fail. Plus, by not suing it has condoned the behavior and a plaintiff has a duty to mitigate damages. It can't allow the harm to grow and grow and grow and then suddenly cry foul when it stands to reap the greatest financial reward. It has to nip the harm in the bud. There is no way it could claim it didn't know people were harming it by using defamatory characterizations.
As for the British libel issues, good luck trying to game the system to enforce an oppressive British judgment hostile to the First Amendment in the U.S.
Won't happen. Ever.

Angel| 1.5.10 @ 10:57PM

Wow! Game, set, match!!

Great posts, A nonymous. Tenny is a typical commie troll; free speech for me but not for thee.

Does this have anything to do with Obama's order providing Interpol with diplomatic immunity? Why did the clown cite UK libel law?

Arrogant assclown.

bling| 1.5.10 @ 11:23PM

Um guys, if ACORN is the astoundingly devious criminal enterprise that has been stealing America's precious bodily fluids for so long now, why exactly didn't the Bush administration justice department do something about them? They had eight years to take ACORN down, right? But they couldn't be bothered? Seems kinda odd.

Patriot| 1.6.10 @ 12:15AM

Cause Bwarney Fwank and the Black Caucus protected ACORN, Fannie and Freddie by screaming "RACIST" if anyone tried to clean their crap up.

DUH!

Paul William Tenny| 1.5.10 @ 11:18PM

"So many errors in the above, so little time. You came here to be an ass and you succeeded."

You're the one degrading the debate into personal attacks – repeatedly – instead of offering logical arguments and providing evidence in support of your claims. One might consider that to be trollish behavior. I welcome any substantive contribution you wish to make, assuming you actually make one.

"Your webpage IDs you as an ass."

Still hiding behind the cloak of anonymity, while throwing around adolescent insults and name calling? Look in the mirror friend.

"You are a commie, in your own words."

The page actually says in pretty plain English, "(or so I'm told)". It's a joke, one that apparently went well over your head.

"You are looking for a fight, not some enlightened Oxford debate so stop trying to claim the moral high ground."

No, I'm pretty much looking for a debate and not finding one. Not with just you here, name calling and generally acting like a child.

"In American law truth is not merely an affirmative defense; it is an absolute defense."

Only if it has been proven, which you haven't done, which Matthew hasn't done, and which I suspect neither of you could actually do. It's reasonable to assume that were either of you capable of it, you'd have done it by now. But you can't actually do that because you know it's not true. It's not hard to see that both of you are simply out to smear ACORN because of personal dislike. It's also understandable, this isn't exactly a high profile site so Matthew can and will get away with libeling ACORN. You'll get away with it because you don't have the guts to put your name to your words.

But none of that really addresses the underlying problem.

"It is wholly political."

Not really, no. ACORN has a number of groups which serve different functions, each incorporated under the appropriate tax laws. Only one of them as far as I know carries out political activities, so it's unreasonable to call the entire organization political. It most certainly is not and you've provided no evidence to the contrary.

This is a transparent and poorly constructed attempt to find far-fetched exemptions from the law for what you now know very well is probably actionable behavior. It reeks of desperation.

"It is a big corporate shell game designed to avoid scrutiny. To point this out is not defamatory."

I agree, it's not defamatory at all. Unfortunately that's not what Matthew said, nor is what you've also claimed in previous comments along with the one above. You both clearly stated as a fact that ACORN was a criminal organization, which is libel since you know it's not true and can't prove it in any meaningful way. I dare you to even try.

Your statement just now, by the way, that ACORN is 'a big corporate shell game designed to avoid scrutiny' describes virtually every company in the country, and actually is a fair description of the federal government itself.

"Members of Congress and all sorts of pundits routinely call ACORN a criminal outfit."

Replace "members of Congress" with Republican politicians, and "pundits" with conservative columnists and radio hosts, and you're a bit closer to the truth of things. And yes, Republicans do that on a regular basis, and each of them is committing slander in the process.

"ACORN can't go after them all, and even if it did it would fail."

It can go after them all and they'd all settle out of court because what they did is against the law. That hasn't happened because there are repercussions. Lawsuits cost money and I'm sure every politician in question would have government representation, costing them nothing. It would also be bad press, even though ACORN would fully be in the right by defending itself in that way.

Sadly, as is the case for everyone, it's usually easier (and cheaper) to ignore the people slandering you than it is to make them stop.

Reality, such as it is.

"Plus, by not suing it has condoned the behavior and a plaintiff has a duty to mitigate damages."

Uh, no. Let's not just randomly make stuff up. It's not at all helpful to the discussion.

"As for the British libel issues, good luck trying to game the system to enforce an oppressive British judgment hostile to the First Amendment in the U.S."

Happens all the time. Happens so often, in fact, that a handful of states have passed laws to put an end to it. But only a handful. There has been little movement at the federal level on the matter. Read up on it, you might learn something.

A Nonymous| 1.6.10 @ 12:10AM

So you're a "concern troll" after all, so worried are you about TAS and its writers.

How touching.

If ACORN aren't racketeers, nobody is.

Patriot| 1.6.10 @ 12:10AM

Andrew Breitbart's got more damning videos of ACORN; he said they make the first ones look like child's play.

The American people are going to go nuts when they see them; we're already infuriated at Obama and democrats in general.

Drip, drip, drip.

Democrats are a stinking cesspool of corruption; November 2, 2010 can't come soon enough. Throw them all out!

Self Image| 1.6.10 @ 1:18AM

> Andrew Breitbart's got more damning videos of ACORN

Show them or they don't exist.

Patriot| 1.6.10 @ 1:27AM

Oh, don't worry, Breitbart will show them--when it will do the most damage possible to ACORN, Obama and the Democrat party.

Drip, drip, drip.

Paul William Tenny| 1.6.10 @ 1:41AM

In other words he's got nothing, other than the lawsuit ACORN filed against the GOP pimp and ho, who apparently violated state wiretap laws. What is it with Republicans violating wiretapping laws?

Patriot| 1.6.10 @ 2:50AM

Don't whine, Tenny--I know liberal beta males like you can't help yourselves, but it's very unattractive to real women like me.

Breitbart doesn't screw around--he's got lots more devastating video evidence against ACORN; just be patient, it's a virtue you know.

It's called investigative journalism, Tenny; you know, it's what the leftist morons in the Lame Stream Media used to do?

Wow, Fraud Dodd and 'bad hairpiece' Dorgan aren't going to run for re-election in November; can you see the democrat bloodbath writing on the wall, Tenny?

If you pull your head out of your rear end you will.

Drip. drip. drip!

Paul William Tenny| 1.6.10 @ 4:02AM

"Breitbart doesn't screw around"

He may not screw around, but he's quickly building a solid record of screwing up. Nothing came of his ACORN "sting" other than an investigation which found no wrongdoing on the part of ACORN, and a lawsuit over state wiretapping laws Brietbart's people apparently violated. And he just blundered -- badly -- over the INTERPOL story where he got basically every fact wrong and ended up badly embarrassed by an ABC blog, of all places.

Yes, forget ABC News, he got schooled by an ABC *blog*.

And that's to say nothing of his site, BigGovernment, losing nearly half its readers in October alone.

It's not been good couple of months for him.

"It's called investigative journalism, Tenny; you know, it's what the leftist morons in the Lame Stream Media used to do? "

First of all, no. It's not journalism when you ask people to commit crimes and then commit them yourselves. That's traditionally called biased activism and criminal behavior.

Second, what is it with the cartoonish, adolescent names? Are you 12?

"Wow, Fraud Dodd and 'bad hairpiece' Dorgan aren't going to run for re-election in November; can you see the democrat bloodbath writing on the wall, Tenny? "

This seems to be a recurring trend. Dodd was in serious trouble and Republicans actually had a shot at winning the seat if he survived a primary. Now that he's not running, Republicans have zero chance of winning that seat.

And I do mean absolute zero.

Anyone who thinks that seat is winnable now is going to get laughed out of any room they are in. Pollsters don't even need to know who will be in the Democratic primary now, it's an automatic win for Democrats because it's such a blue state. I mean you Republicans are giddy as if this were good news for you, when it's *bad*. A blue seat just went from tossup to strongly leans Democratic, and nobody in the GOP seems smart enough to understand that.

Moreover, you meant Democrat, with a big D.; as in members of the Democratic party. "democrat" with a little d is anyone who believes in democratic principals.

In other words you just asked me if I can see the bloodbath of anyone who supports democracy, which includes you and the Republican party along with -- presumably -- everyone in this country.

It's disheartening that so many conservatives aren't educated enough to know that.

Patriot| 1.6.10 @ 2:14PM

Typical liberal Beta male: Whining, long-winded blowhard. Bore.

What's disheartening, concern troll, is that we won't get rid of ALL you fascist clowns in 2010. But we'll give it our best shot.

Now, go do something useful like screwing more trillions out of the American people. You do it so well.

Patriot| 1.6.10 @ 2:19PM

Nah, moron, I meant democrat with a SMALL 'c'. The only BIG thing about you clowns is your penchant for lying, cheating and stealing.

You are the party of ACORN, after all.

Don't worry about Breitbart; once he starts releasing these new damning ACORN videos his ratings are going to shoot through the roof again.

He's going to do just fine--ACORN not so much.

Paul William Tenny| 1.6.10 @ 3:26PM

Well, it's clear that there's little point in trying to hold a productive debate on the issues when there aren't any adults here to do it with. Honestly, I've seen more mature behavior out of my nine-year-old nephew than out of any of you.

It really is embarrassing to see you lower yourselves to incessant name calling. I would have thought you'd have grown out of that at some point, but I guess not.

On the other hand this kind of behavior, which seems endemic in the GOP, largely explains why this country was brought to the brink of ruin over the past decade. Conservatives don't care about anything other than making up newer and more petty names that they can lob at people they don't like, giggling like schoolchildren while the rest of the country collectively rolls their eyes.

There are plenty of debatable issues with regard to ACORN. Did they do anything illegal in the videos? A former state attorney general investigated and found no evidence of wrongdoing. Did Brietbart's proteges do anything illegal? It would seem so, according to a plain reading of the relevant state law. Did they violate virtually every major principal of journalistic ethics (report the news, don't create it) in the process of making the amateurish, embarrassing videos?

Absolutely.

But none of that seems to concern you or anyone else, you can't be bothered with facts and logical reasoning. All you know is that John McCain (who used to support ACORN and attended ACORN rallies) turned against them in 2008 to avoid having to talk about real issues during the Presidential campaign like the failing economy (which his chief economic adviser said was only an imaginary recession in our heads, the man who would be heading McCain's economic policy right now), the failed wars, the failure of the Republican party to do anything substantive about terrorism globally, and the ever increasing fragile state of our environment.

Instead you seem content to just smear them, smear me, and generally act like a little kid would. No substantive issues address, just moron this, more adolescent name calling that.

And the crazy thing is that most of you probably still wonder why Americans threw your party out of office in 2006 and 2008 on such a grand scale. On the eve of the 2006 mid-terms, there were 55 Republicans in the Senate. In the aftermath of the general election in 2008, barely 27 months later, there were 40 – a loss of over one quarter of their ranks.

This behavior which America is sick of is a big part of the reason why.

Patriot| 1.6.10 @ 4:32PM

Actually, America is sick and tired of you elitist fascists stealing everything that's not nailed down.

I know you're scared, and you should be. More disgusting ACORN videos will help seal your fate. You'll see.

November can't come soon enough. I just hope you morons don't get us blown up before then.

No one invited you here, troll--go back under your slimy rock at HuffPo where you belong.

Just remember: Drip, drip drip!!

Patriot| 1.6.10 @ 7:29PM

Good riddance, yellow-bellied fool. Doesn't take much to run a Beta Male off.

See you in November.

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