The American Spectator

Paul| 12.25.09 @ 2:05AM

Dear Mr. Antle,

Mr. Ponnuru's article is almost worthless without mentioning the one key factor that you nailed on the head: how many of the 39 House Democratic "no" votes were allowed to go off the reservation on the initial Bill but are pledged to Mrs. Pelosi if she needs them on the reconciled Bill? I can't name the individuals, but I'd bet she's got at least 15 votes up her sleeve.

Eric Dondero| 12.25.09 @ 10:24AM

Pretty pathetic that conservatives are pinning their last remaining hopes on defeating this bill on abortion. Hey conservatives, wake-up call. Many of us on the Right are PRO-CHOICE!

How about you all attacking Obama and this piece of crap bill for what it is: SOCIALISM.

It's the economics, stupid conservatives. Nobody outside of the Pro-Life movement cares about the abortion aspect of this bill.

W. James Antle III| 12.25.09 @ 1:16PM

Take a look at the last Quinnipiac poll, for just one example. The most socialistic ideas, the public option and the Medicare expansion (neither of which survived the Senate), polled the best. Taxpayer funding of abortion polled second-worse.

Ran / Si Vis Pacem| 12.27.09 @ 8:48AM

Mr. Antle, I don't trust Quinnipiac yet. Do you believe their poll? Raz has a reliable reputation for 'control' and bias accounting.

Dennis D| 12.25.09 @ 11:34PM

Just because you are Pro Abortion does not mean you support taxpayer funded abortion does it?

Ran / Si Vis Pacem| 12.27.09 @ 9:10AM

Eric,
Off the top, Federal funding of abortion is doubly onerous. Tax-payer support of private, elective and unnecessary procedures is offensive enough.

Then again, the Libertarian in me assumes that God gives us our humanity from the very moment of conception, and that the natural right to life of every human individual is thusly due protection, even protection from the "choice" of the mother. Seriously Eric, if one does not define the moment at conception, then our pal Cas Sunstein (MHRIH) wins the day, does he not?

I could flip it around: Liberals have been aborting themselves - but is the slaughter of innocents worth the gains? One could argue socially that Liberal Culture is not something we on the Right are permitted to obstruct. Let them implode, so long as they don't force the rest of us to burn with them... Though I'm always taken back to the individual at the moment of conception. Who is there to protect her natural rights?

I dig your main point: It's the economics, stupid conservatives. I suspect Quinnipiac - they have been extremely wrong in the past. (I simply don't trust the results of the poll mentioned by James until it's backed-up by, say, Rasmussen.)

Oldefarte| 12.25.09 @ 10:41AM

Again, the stench coming from DC can only be cured by electing politicians that pledge to begin representing their constituents [and not their political party leaders] beginning in 2010 [and maybe some lawsuits based upon the unconstitutional nature of this WELFARECARE]!!!!!

Ken (Old Texican)| 12.25.09 @ 10:53AM

Merry Christmas

You know, Mr. Antle, I posted here a riff by Rush on one of his shows last week.
I have moved his words to my permanent document file. The key theme he was expressing was "Americans withholding consent to be governed".
The idea has been tickling my mind ever since I read his words, "withholding consent".

I know some history, and in the final analysis, no tyrant has ever governed without the consent of the people. Examples: For hundreds of years the State "partner" Churches propped up tyrants by declaring "the divine right of kings" . Another: The communist and fascist empires ruled "by wholesale murder", often combined with external conquest.
Or yet another: numerous variations on "bread and circuses."

In the end, most of those tyrannies above died due to "refusal of consent to be governed". Yes, many of those governments were toppled over long periods of suffering and horror, but toppled they were. In the Soviet empire that toppling seems mostly due to a continent wide "slow down strike". The courageous people just got eliminated,(murdered or imprisoned), and the rest fought back by staying drunk and being "unproductive."...and perhaps even unreproductive due to an overwhelming sense of despair.
So,
reflecting here on a beautiful Christmas morning, I begin to think. How did those peoples allow themselves to be "governed" in such fashions.....for so long a time?
Obviously, I don't have all the answers and I hope we can continue this conversation over time, but!

I think I have some handles:
1. Ignorance of any other viable options in their so-limited world view.
2. Enduring tyranny from their earliest memories.
3. Having only "pitch-forks instead of edged weapons".
4. Not even a ghost of a hope, or perhaps even a concept of what we call a "civil society"...no template.
5. The inability to pool their thoughts through communication to construct a template. (illiteracy in most cases.)
6. Inheriting the age-old strategy of "keep your head down".
7. Inheriting "taboos" with mother's milk.

I'm sure you could add many more, BUT!
I am so proud to be called an American, even in these days. Our present government had only been in "control" for two months when fine fellow Americans all across this country began smelling a rat.
As each week and month rolled by, the stench became so apparent to even the dimmest "productive" bulb, that the groundswell began to build into a tsunami that will wash this "governing" filth away for a generation.

All across this country, our fellow citizens are standing up, and dusting off the pledge of allegiance we all learned in school. Millions of fellow Americans are quietly stocking up on food and medicine...and fuel...and tools...to weather the coming storm...no matter what form it takes.

Again, thank you guys at Am Spec for providing these forums. I have not a clue how many visits per day you get here, but I do know your thoughts become part of Rush's show every day...ie: some thirty million Americans. Fox news and all the rest lean on you for material every day as well.

As for we millions of productive Americans out here... We no longer " give consent to being governed this way."

Jim Hlavac| 12.25.09 @ 11:16AM

Yes, indeed, no consent to be governed. Civil disobedience can take many forms. We have 2 1/2 centuries of liberty to fall back on for examples, and a plentitude of founding father's wisdom to draw upon -- something no other country ever had.
All talk of defeatism in the face of statism reminds of a man who looks at a tornado ravaged house and says it can't be rebuilt, then breaks down and cries at the loss endured -- as if it was forever and ever. Then out come the neighbors to clear the debris, and the helpers to find what good is left, and the church moms with food to feed the workers, and the insurance man with his adjusting and his check, and all manner of do-gooders who will do real good -- and then the contractors to come in an rebuild -- bigger, better, safer.
No, there is no defeat in the war, whatever the state of battle is for the moment.
We might be at Bastogne, but Patton is on the way.
As for those who say "it'll never be repealed" I have but one word for you: Prohibition.
A health care issue for sure, the statists got liquor banned for our own health. Then it was repealed. And that was a constitutional amendment. What's a mere chunk of law? As perhaps the military would say -- it's a rich target environment.
Each and every page must be scoured for the unconstitutionality of it all. Each and every new agency must be denied funds and personal.
If anything, the Bush and Obama years are a teaching moment for America -- government is not the answer. Tax and spend is not a rational course of action. Never ending deficits cannot be sustained. Ever more laws is not what the people want.
No, take heart, and realize it's merely a blizzard today, but the sweet sunshine of liberty will melt away this mush.

Ken (Old Texican)| 12.25.09 @ 4:14PM

You betcha' Jim.
As this snake begins to continue eating it's tail, the end is as predictable as sunrise.

The folks with their hands out for freebies or extortion will get very hungry....very quickly. I am including non-productive-non representative politicians of course. We are going to have to find them some productive work as well. heh.

Ret. Marine| 12.27.09 @ 8:28AM

While I could agree with the part of finding them some productive work, I'd rather see a court start charges of treason, sedution, failure to upholf their oaths to their individual office and for the brazen attempt at allowing this monster to begin. Some where in the back of their minds they have to be thinking about how they can get around the Constitution without the consent of the Governed.
While I think the idea of Health Reform was a good start, I believe this, as well as many of the socialist brand of helping, was a non-starter from the begining. We all know the liberal-left leaning communist/progressive/regressive mindset is always using the verbage of helping the children, the victims, etc., we as well see the fraud (s) of such actions. Which leads me to think, and not without doubt, that the entire purpose was to see just how far the American People will allow such plan(s) to continue. It's about raw power in their mindset. The power to tell us what we want will have an advert effect upon the entire American landscape, not just those who have their hands out for yet another freebe on the backs of the productive but the very existence of a middle class hard working, bill paying, tax payers with more to lose than the give-me mindset.
I do not see this going to fruitation, there are many many parts of this entire bill that are so unConstitutional it becomes obvious to any thinking person why they think they can get away with it. They not only think they can get away with it, they are willing to risk their entire platform, the pretender-n-theif's presidency, his place in the history of this Country and are risking a civil-war, acts of civil disobidience and God knows what else. No, they are acting like the power-drunk monkeys they always have been, this time they have brought it up a few knotches because of the majic negro injection and his brand of marxist anti-American, anti-jewish, pro terrorist ties. In a sense they are daring us to revolt. I believe it is time to start a petition against this fraud for his wanten attempts at changing our way of life, our morals, our principles, values and his attempt at crashing our role to the free-world. Basically a petition of no confidence is in order. Why wait for another three years of this nonsense and this 111th CONgress attempts at strangling this Nation into bankruptcy to do what is an American way of doing business? We have far more freedoms under assult now. What the hell are we waiting for? What are we afraid of being called whatever? Are we not Americans who decide what, where and when we are going to stop this trainwreck, are there no MEN in this Country anymore?

Ken (Old Texican)| 12.27.09 @ 10:27AM

Retired Marine,
Productive work for politicians might be manufacturing license plates...perhps in China?
heh.
Sir...timing timing timing.......but we hear you.

Let's wait until the "bill" finally hits the streets in black and white, and give it a few weeks for the reality of it soaks in on the American people.

gadfly| 12.25.09 @ 12:53PM

The "get-along" Republican lawmakers made their first mistake when they conceded that "healthcare" in the US needed to be reformed. It was downhill after that.

The Dems pounced with their already written Hillary-Care legislation updated with punative Marxist controls such as the death panels and the requirement that all Americans must buy government-mandated health insurance.

The arguments that needed stressed were (1) the mammoth cost of such an undertaking and (2) the loss of constitutiionally-guaranteed freedoms when an inefficient government program (that will control the private lives of every citizen's health decisions) will be installed to replace a quasi-capitalist system of providing medical care. Indeed Congress had already kicked the bucket over with Medicare and Medicaid, but now the final nail in the coffin will end American Exceptionalism and effectively end medical research.

When the joint committtee approves a reconciled bill, conservative organization need to band together immediately to test the constitutionality of the legislation

Dennis D| 12.25.09 @ 11:36PM

Healthcare has become too expensive in America. Of course the GOP had to admit reform was needed. Not a mistake at all. But this bill is a huge mistake.

buck johs| 12.25.09 @ 10:36PM

I do not know why folks say health care reform polls badly. How about pooling those who have no insurance, or polling those who spend an enitre evening in a ER for routine care, or those who depend on charities and telethons for their health care. No one has ever been able to explain to me why if we have such a great health care sysytem I have to see Jerry Lewis every year, why we have telethons and marathons, and other charities for health care? For example, we do not have Biking for Bombs.

RB| 12.26.09 @ 8:36AM

buck, not all, but most of those at the ER are there by CHOICE! I know many who say they can always get health care by 'going to the emergency room'. They prefer to spend their money elsewhere because they have a safety net. As for telethons and charities, that's the love and caring for our fellow citizens being made evident to all but the liberals out there who think only government can save us. Try donating sometime instead of complaining. I don't think anyone says insurance shouldn't be reformed, but why do you think the government has to take control? Government will never control costs. It never has.

Bill rom WV| 12.26.09 @ 8:20AM

The problem is this. Pelosi, Reid, Schumer and the other Obama ilk are willing to sacrifice the "Blue Dog" seats to obtain what they want,American's dependence on politicians for basic survival. They know that even if they loose half the Democratic seats up for 2010 it will not affect the balance much because of the mix of Democrat-Republican seats available in 2010.
They know there will be no measurable change until 2012, and, by then the damage will have been done!
The bottom line is this,politicians( Democrat and Republican) would have much less power over those who elect them, were they not dependent upon them for even the basic of needs!
The Democratic slush fund,(the Stimulus Bill) has given them unlimited ability to "buy" any vote they need.
I can only hope that every state's Senators hold off on the next vote,so everyone can get a little of the Pelosi/Reid pie, it is only far! If you are going to pay one off, pay them all off!
Politics in Washington has become openly maleficent. Those in power no longer represent the will of those who sent them to Washington. We are being taxed without being represented. Maybe, those in Washington who are perpetrating such behavior may want to read the "History of the United States".
That behavior did not work well for many the last time it occurred.
Rope is cheap and re-usable.

RB| 12.26.09 @ 8:52AM

Amen, Bill. I like your way of thinking, but I don't think they will get the message until someone swings. They are just too comfortable in their cocoon.

Alice Moore| 12.26.09 @ 9:05PM

You know, The Dems are so evil, they may have something like this in the works. They may meet some prominent Lib(in a safe district) give the guy/gal the noose and make it look like a McVeigh type attack. Of course, the killers will be weeping the loudest and most conspicuously at our departed Lib's funeral.

I understand your frustration. I watched "Dr. Zhivago" the other day. Remember the scene with the Tsarist General screaming orders at his ragged troops atop a barrel? For a minute I pictured prominent receiving the poor, hapless general's justice. Marie Antoinette riding in the timbrel to the Guillotine....picture a botoxed pol in her place. You understand the frustration and the initial impulse to mete out such justice. A cathartic release but, worse terror than Pete Townsend's old Boss doled to the masses.

The American Revolution avoided these excesses. My question is will the government have the numbers to force compliance? After all, Hitler, Stalin, and Mao didn't go out by their lonesome and load cattle cars, confiscate vast amounts of property, and throw switches at numerous gas chambers. People mention ACORN, unions, and various ethnic groups that hate white people. They don't seem to have the long term cohesion to pull off a Final Solution or a Cultural Revolution. Key groups such as law enforcement and the military support the office of the Presidency, but, don't seem to be willing to mow down masses of ordinary Americans to carry out any given president's whim.

I think it was Dr. Thomas Sowell that stated for any Totalitarian regime to be successful every Gulag/locality has to have an active , willing, and competent enforcement mechanism of 250,000 people per so many people.

I hope this isn't true for the US

Bill from WV| 12.26.09 @ 8:50AM

buck johs,
The answer is simple really 270 million are content with their health care. 30 million lack access. Out of that 30 million(which is a high end number) one third of those are under 25 who opt not to have access.
So, instead of providing a vehicle to get those 30 million required access, the politicians are going to completely revamp 300 million!
The young are now going to be forced to purchase insurance though they do not want it, the elderly will have their care controlled and cut. And, everyone who works for a living will be paying higher taxes for at least 5 years before ANY ONE gets ANY access!
Notice ,I have used the word access throughout my reply. Those who currently have access, will tell you ,just because you have access, does NOT guarantee you will receive treatment!
What I do not hear you or any one ask are things like ,"What are the deductibles going to be ?", "Will I have to pay more for family coverage?","Will I be fined if I can't cover everyone?"
This is not going to be free!
You ask why,they don't poll those who wait in the ER for hours for treatment? If they are being treated, they have access. And, if you think this will speed up your treatment time, let me give you a math problem that will show you how much worse this will get.
Currently, the is a shortage of 170,000 doctors in America. If this bill passes another estimated 60-75,000 doctors will quit due to reimbursement reduction and liability costs.
The amount of new medical school grads is falling and this bill will place it in free fall for years to come.
You add 30 million people to an already overloaded system. If you think that your wait in ER's are long now, understand this:
Here is that change Obama promised you,.If you are allowed in the ER, be prepared to wait. Learn where your nearest clinic is ,that is where you will receive most of your care. Be prepares to wait at least a week for an appointment. If you need a test, be prepared to wait up to 4-6 months
to receive it (if you are approved, by the Health Commission). Don't be looking for any Workmen's Compensation for injuries until you get all these tests done and reviewed ( another year).
So, if you think that your access and treatment is bad now, there will be a change!
It is going to get much, much WORSE!~

Bill from WV| 12.26.09 @ 9:15AM

buck johs,
Maybe we would have more money for health care, if we were not payning $5,760,000 per year to fly Nancy Pelosi's rotund ass back and forth from California on her "Gulfstream" she had to have because she was "cramped" on a smaller plane.
Newt Gingrich used to fly commercial back and forth!
The Dem's motto"Do as I say, not as I do!"

ShyAsrai| 12.26.09 @ 10:32AM

it is not healthcare delivery that needs to be reformed, IT IS THE GOVERNMENT AND THEIR MEDDLING & OVER REGULATING!!

Yosemeti Sam| 12.26.09 @ 11:45AM

All depends, on how many HR democrats will return from their vacations to their respective districts; nursing burst ear drums courtesy of their CONSTITUENTS!

So they won't hear anything Broomrider has
to say.

Oldefarte| 12.26.09 @ 1:45PM

Let me repeat a thought I recently read, that if Republicans are elected in substantial numbers in 2010 that enable them to take ove the majority of the House [even though the Senate may be majorily Democratic as it is now]; then said majority Representatives could possibly begin to DEFUND [or withhold government payments for] some/all of Obama's/Democrats' socialistic programs/policies. I do not know enough about the governmental financing system between to the House and the Senate; but this stated theory sounded fiscally and financially logical to me. If any of you have any knowledge of if this could possibly be accompolished, please inform/chime in!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sooz from OR| 12.26.09 @ 2:16PM

Thanks, Jim H, for your uplifting and inspirational comments. It made my day!
The Republicans must play hardball, or they will
get hung from the trees, too...just like the Liberals
will.

bmatkin| 12.27.09 @ 11:54PM

Reid played the fiddle on Christmas Eve as a jet burned in Chicago, it is obvious the Majority leaders are less interested in what they were sworn to uphold (defending the U.S.) and more interested in their ideology.
It seems to me that Jihad is the most pressing world threat, not health care. Millions will die when the jihad gets an atomic weapon as opposed to health care where their bill may actually help a tiny few. National Security has been trashed for the feel good agenda of the far left. Bring on KSM, I'm sure NY will feel a lot safer now that the world knows the U.S. is such an outstanding moral place of high values.

coach sneaker| 12.28.09 @ 4:07AM

The best we American people can do currently is to try to keep this damn disguised Global Empire from mucking you up.

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