The American Spectator

Dell| 12.13.09 @ 9:12PM

The bottom line kinda' says it all, does it not?

"The process is so flawed that the result is tantamount to fraud. As an authority, the IPCC should be consigned to the scrapheap without delay.
Dr Philip Lloyd Pr Eng
MD: Industrial and Petrochemical Consultants

"Snake Oil, Here! Getch Your Snake Oil, Here!"

Liberal Reader| 12.13.09 @ 9:32PM

The release of these emails has only hardened the resolve of people whom science could not possibly convince.

There is NO evidence, no amount of studies, no amount of fact, reason, or scientific agreement that could persuade people who have simply decided already that AGW could not possibly be happening. After all, it's not in Genesis, is it?

Your anti-science attitude is disheartening and depressing and squalid, but thank God it's not all that contagious. People go on being educated, and the educated will learn how to listen to scientists thoughtfully and with healthy skepticism -- something you people have never learned.

I think you prove one thing: one conservatives lament the state of American education, they are so correct to do so. What a squalid debasement, what a shameful waste of opportunity has produced such illiteracy and ignorance!

bluecollarbytes| 12.14.09 @ 8:30AM

how small of you. This ongoing attempt to shame and belittle anyone, including other scientists, who disagree with Global Warming doctrine hasn't worked to shut up free-thinking individuals.

Refocus your energies on producing uncorrupted data. Well, I don't mean YOU personally, but the 'educated' on your side.

Eric Cartman| 12.14.09 @ 9:48AM

Dude! You gotta quit crying. People are gunna think you're a limp-wristed, scaredy-cat whose dreams of total world control through fraud and the redistribution of wealth from the US taxpayer to poor, piss-in-their-drinking-water, third-world dictatorships has gone up in smoke because the world is now on to your lies and games! You don't wanna sound like that, do ya, huh, do ya!

Poor bastard! Just when he thought he and his ilk would lie, steal and cheat their way to riches, up pops those damn emails. Pretty pathetic. All that work for nothing. All that hysteria and gnashing of teeth and scare tactics, wasted. Not to mention having to hang around with Fat Albert and his crew. Wow! It must really suck to be you, having to defend Fat Al's statements like the Earth's core is "several million degrees". Ya know what, go ahead and whine - you deserve it. Go and cry a river. Of course we will all be laughing at you, ya know. We earned it! LOL

Randian| 12.14.09 @ 3:33PM

Liberals are smarter than everyone else.
Just ask em........

Ken (Old Texican)| 12.13.09 @ 10:01PM

Lips moving Liberal,

You reaally...REALLY...need to hit Mr. Soros up for a raise.
You are worth far more than the minimum wage he is paying you. heh!
I did not get a government "uneducation". I went to one of the premier private Universities in the country...Baylor. (Look it up, silly).

The "science" ain't science. It is politics. (oh well, heck, it is lying and corruption as well...get your head out.)
Since Mr. Soros didn't have you comment on the other threads, I shall shamelessly copy/paste my comment from another thread again here.
Read it and weep, twit.

I cannot express my delight well enough. I don't have the words.
When these little twits throw stuff at me, each of you get a deeper and deeper understanding of how confused they truly are.
Each of you begin to understand that they have no clue about what happens if they actually get their fantasies come true, and we productive citizens are successfully harnessed like mules to do their plowing for them.
When, like the stubborn mules we are, we sit down in our harnesses.....they literally starve.

Let me repeat that. They may literally starve to death.
They are nothing more than parasites on our society, and if they got their way, they would kill the very "mules" that sustain their non-productive little lives.
Fortunately for America, they are a small lunatic fringe. It is simply beyond them to ever understand the complex, fragile, economic infrastructure upon which they rest their weary little heads.

It is simply beyond them to even imagine the "Mule" truck driver not delivering their food on time, or the mule farmer refusing to plant a crop for a year.
In their wildest imaginings, they cannot picture what their world would be like if the “mules”in the oil fields simply closed the valves, and the mules in the coal mines parked their equipment....for even a month.
As I sat quietly last evening I found myself weighing and balancing government power versus the power of we who know how to do all the things that the twits do not:
. ...planting...harvesting...engineering...building...wiring...practicing medicine ...delivering ...milling ... etc. ad finitum.

Do they really believe we will do all these things we know how to do… at the point of a gun?

For many years in our country, small groups practicing civil disobedience have caused some serious “inconveniences” across the country.
The twits still do not understand that we "mules" will, sooner than later, run out of patience. We won’t even have to indulge in civil disobedience on any large scale. We will only have to take a month’s vacation with our feet up…and watch the lights, (uh electricity), go out coast to coast, while we watch the food-store shelves gradually empty.
So, in the final analysis, if the twits got their fondest wishes, they would be the twits ground under the consequences first…and worst…by their own best buddies in the gubmint.
As I cast my final thoughts into the future last evening, I realized once again that next November, (2010), if the communists manage to rig the elections, or indeed somehow make them irrelevant, then DECEMBER is the very best month to put our feet up, or to use an earlier metaphor…simply sit down in our harnesses for a month…with a long cold winter on the way.

You know…I slept very well.

Liberal Reader| 12.13.09 @ 10:55PM

Look. 15, 20 years ago the tobacco industry put tens of millions of dollars into a massive campaign to sow doubt about the connection of smoking to cancer and other diseases.

The seeded think tanks and paid off commentators; they funded bogus science and white papers; they undertook not to convince people that smoking was safe, but that the science on smoking was uncertain.

They failed. Now the people who participated in this campaign are regarded with contempt and treated to nothing but mockery.

Climate change denial is being undertaken in the same cynical way: corporations with deeply vested interests are funding think tanks to produce bogus white papers and commentators to call established science into question. Their goal is NOT to treat science with reasonable skepticism. Rather, it is to sow doubt about the ability of science to know anything about the climate.

If we're lucky, 15 or 20 years from now climate change denial will seem as absurd and foolish as the denial that smoking causes lung cancer.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em, boys.

TJ| 12.14.09 @ 9:22AM

Dear Liberal Reader--thank you for contributing....truly. I will always defend your right to speak and to contribute

Unfortunately for your argument, the reverse seems to be true...in this case, the mainstream media refuses to cover "Climate-Gate", and journalists who asked questions at the Copenhagen conference were physcically restrained and hauled out of the so-called "confreence".
The emails in question, increasingly indicative of an internal IPCC leak (not a hack) suggest that a major portion of environmental science focus is to extort $$ FROM the energy industries. In addition, the scientists also confirm (what most observing the whole last few year know already) that they work very hard to stifle, not foster, differing opinion--again with the help of a willing media (who even call the scientists to ask how to 'spin' a story).

If in fact you are one who respects science as a discipline, how can you at least not wonder if in fact--in an attempt to create a desired result--that these envirnomental scientists have damaged the credibility of science for years to come?? For example, we have now revealed code that shows that weather models were hard coded in portions to use specifically fed 'data' in order to guarantee a given result....that does against the whole concept of a scientific model!!

You wonder if in 15-20 years that so-called climate denial will seem absurd and foolish. The rest of us wonder what damage will be wrought by millions of persons who found themselves duped (and proundly embarrassed) by fraudulent 'science' over the same 15-20 years.

Eric Cartman| 12.14.09 @ 10:22AM

DUDE! I said STOP! Now your panties are all knotted up about tobacco! Are you saying your global warming is created by the tobacco companies! Does tobacco growing cause your global warming? Because if it doesn't, your tobacco argument vis a vis your global warming garbage is crap. You know that, right? You know the two arguments are separate, right? I mean, heh, you know that because you're an Educated Liberal, right? Because now you just sound like a whiny- ass Liberal Ahole. I mean, some other poster already noticed you sound like the small-penis type moron. You don't want to be known as "Liberal Reader - Whiny Ass Liberal Ahole With A Small Penis" do ya, huh, do ya?!

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 12.14.09 @ 11:23AM

Liberal Reader is a guy? Oops!! I didn't know that, I always thought that she was just some hippie chick up in Oregon, who's smoking too much pot while she types. But her argument comparing Tobacco and Global Warming, is total crap. The MSM was never promoting smoking back then, like they have been promoting AGW now, so she's comparing Apples and oranges here, or she's completely high again.

So she's really a guy? Wow!! She sure doesn't sound like one, now does he?

Allan| 12.14.09 @ 11:38AM

The agendized funding for climate change came from the governments that stand to reap huge benefits from the fraudulent science. Right church, wrong pew for your logic.

Imagine being able to collect an endless supply of taxes in the name of a problem that does not exist and needs no funding to correct.

Elementary calculus and physics prove that accurate, functioning climate models cannot exist.

Chris| 12.13.09 @ 11:12PM

Wow, the tobacco industry is the best you can do? I mean really, it's not like people didn't know they killed you in the 20's when they called them coffin nails. This theme is ridiculous.

BTW, the CRU whistle blower e-mails show that Big Oil was helping to fund these people. GE is looking to make a mint off of all of this eco-hysteria.

You might want to take a look at the Greenland and Russian ice core samples and notice that even if the higher temperatures are correct, they have been higher in the past.

Maybe you need to go back and talk to Soros and get better instructions.

Liberal Reader| 12.13.09 @ 11:22PM

Chris --

If everyone knew smokes were dangerous, why did the industry lie to Congress? Why did they falsify data of their own studies? Why did they spend tens of millions to sow doubt about the science?

True, the dangers of smoking were able to be intuited. However, firm scientific FACT about the connections of smoking to cancer were dangerous to the industry. Indeed, in the past 15 years the number of smokers has plummeted more than it ever did in decades past.

I don't need to look at Greenland or Russia: the science on this, Chris, is very well founded and has been for well over a decade.

Arguing with people who have already decided what they believe BEFORE they understand the science is pointless.

I could point you to HUNDREDS of studies, conducted by scientists all over the world, in different branches of science, funded by diverse, DISINTERESTED sources, but it would be pointless. You've already made up your mind. Or rather, the world renowned climatologist, Dr. Rushmore Limbaugh, has made it up for you. Mega-dittoes, brother!

JP| 12.14.09 @ 9:18AM

"I could point you to HUNDREDS of studies, conducted by scientists all over the world, in different branches of science, funded by diverse, DISINTERESTED sources, but it would be pointless."

But said studies are depend upon either paleo-reconstructions, or temperature reconstructions provided by either CRU, NOAA, of GISS. LR, what you fail to point out or what you are blissfully unaware of is that the only "proof" of AGW resides in these temperature reconstructions. CRU is already pulling thier reconstructions offline and they may be finally forced to reveal to the world how they concocted such junk. Hopefully, Congress will force NASA and NOAA to do the same. And believe me, you don't want to know.

Conservative Bob| 12.14.09 @ 10:44AM

Science requires that to accept a conclusion as valid others must be able to duplicate the results independently.
Why would you not want total transparency? Why must we accept as fact the claims of a few cloistered individuals whose integrity has been brought into question by their own words and actions?
An honest inquiry would require that the results be able to be consistently duplicated by any scientist working with the original source data. Why would you delete you original source data?
‘Established facts’ have been modified or changed complete by subsequent investigations throughout history, why is it the AGW must be sacrosanct?

Eric Cartman| 12.14.09 @ 10:45AM

Well, Lib Reader, your crying and whimpering is heart wrenching. He's a Shamwow for your tears. Boo Hoo, Lib Ahole.

Yosemeti Sam| 12.14.09 @ 12:38AM

" ... ClimateGate is devastating to the global warming industry ...."

Come-uppance!

What's the price of Sliver
nowadays? LOL.

Exposition of cold-hearted panhandlers. All along - in it for the MONEY!

BIG MONEY!

You think syndicates - of all persuasions -
are/were not intricately involved. Forget about venal politicians: they can be bought and sold
by the bushel - cheap; a perennial problem;
they succumb so easily to thumbscrews; LOL.

Gore et al are now so full of dineros - etc - that
collectively they should be used as Pinatas
to solve the Democrat party US debt binge. LOL.

Inge| 12.14.09 @ 1:57AM

Liberal Reader:
One thing all of you petty-minded progressives have in common is to use LOTS of words, and say absolutely nothing.
Your postings here demonstrate your attempt to justify the fraud by the IPCC, and the rest of these socialists, and communists.
Lies never overshadow the truth; GW has been the biggest scam in history.

Marc Jeric| 12.14.09 @ 7:23AM

1) There was first in the 1970's the global cooling scam (see e.g. Newsweek April 28 1975 on the Internet); the government-paid scientists (90% of them are rejects of private enterprise) recommended to fight the new ice age by sending our war planes to cover the polar ice with soot in order to increase solar heat and so prevent crushing of New York skyscrapers by the new glaciers;
2) When that did not work we had the global warming hoax in the 1990's, proclaimed by mainly the same government-paid scientists (Dr. Hansen of the NOAA, for example); to prevent the massive heating, fires, flooding of coastal cities, disappearance of Florida, California, and Caribbean islands, massive hurricanes, global famine, and other catastrophic events we should nationalize oil and gas and coal and electricity companies;
3) after 11 years of considerable cooling we are now faced with the climate change flimflam where whatever happens with our climate we should nationalize oil and gas and coal and electricity companies; and why not our banks, car and insurance companies while we are at it. To prevent this catastrophe the best vehicle presumably is international agreements enforced by the United Nations world government.
As for the influence of carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas: on a normal day the atmosphere contains 20,000 ppm (parts per million) of water vapor and about 300 ppm of carbon dioxide. The government-paid scientists say that an increase of 100 ppm of CO2 over the next 50 years will result in a catastrophic warming. The thermal absorptivity of water vapor is 4 times larger than that of carbon dioxide; it follows that the CO2 increase will increase the overall thermal absorptivity of the mixture by about 1/8 of one percent. The production of methane from livestock flatulence and the rotting swamps (called "wetlands" by the environmentalists) vastly surpasses the influence of human-produced CO2.
There is the Global Warming Petition Project (see Internet) where 31,478 US independent scientists declared that there is no anthropogenic (human-caused) global warming; of these 9,029 are scientists with PhD degrees. Our environmentalists tried to sabotage this effort by submiiting phony names with phoney degrees - and then claimed the whole effort by the Petition scientists was a fraud. It took us 3 years and a lot of private money to verify the credentials of all the signatories and clean up the Petition of those saboteurs. See also Manhattan Declaration with more such signatories, plus a large number of scientific groups from other countries who state the same.
I am one of these signatories, MS and PhD degrees from UCLA, with majors in thermodynamics and heat & mass transfer.
I think to fight this communist attempt to secure a permanent hold on power should not be fought on the narrow grounds of more taxes - that is the losing proposition; where about 50% of the population is on some kind of welfare we will always be outvoted. The battle should be fought and won on the firm scientific basis.
4) And now we have "cap™" power grab.
SCAM - HOAX - FLIMFLAM - POWER GRAB!!!

Let the "Liberal Reader" enjoy this short clarification and abstain from his idiotic name calling.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 12.14.09 @ 11:36AM

Liberal Reader will not respond to you Sir, because you would tear "her" apart, piece by piece, and she knows it.
So why weren't you invited to Copenhagen? Didn't Fat Al want to hear your opinion too? I guess not.

Pecos Pete| 12.14.09 @ 7:36AM

Liberal Reader says, "I don't need to look at Greenland or Russia: the science on this, Chris, is very well founded and has been for well over a decade."

That's right, LR, shut your eyes and mind to conflicting facts. Seems to me you are a true believer, you have no doubts, nothing will change your mind. Forget Climategate, contradicting tree rings and, most of all, the history of earth's cooling/warming cycles.

Yep, San Francisco will be under 6 feet of water very soon now as a result of the bad old USA using too much electricity, or coal or oil. Yes? Gosh, it would be so much better to let India, China and others do the deed.

ncatty| 12.14.09 @ 9:07AM

Ok, let's assume that climate change is human caused. Let's also assume that human activity can "remedy" climate change. What is the goal temperature, however averaged? England in 1100 ad? Western North America in the same period? Greenland in 1600?

TennesseeVolunteer| 12.14.09 @ 9:22AM

Ken, your best post ever....because it is the TRUTH.

Pete| 12.14.09 @ 10:27AM

Not sure what to make of this from LR: "If we're lucky, 15 or 20 years from now climate change denial will seem as absurd and foolish as the denial that smoking causes lung cancer."

Now correct me if I am wrong, but don't these kooks believe that in 20 years we'll all be huddled together on high ground due to rising seas, our smelly, sun blistered bodies attracting displaced polar bears as hurricanes and typhoons pounds us relentlessly? If we're lucky...

And the use of the word "denial" is so very telling.

Liberal Reader| 12.14.09 @ 11:30AM

So ...

A "hoax" is being perpetrated by the scientific communities of the world.

World leaders from Europe, Asia, Africa, North and South America have been duped by the "hoax."

Only Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, and a small group of rag-tag Tea Partiers have the smarts to see through their evil plan.

The evil plan includes doctoring photos to create the illusion that glaciers all over the world are melting. Glacier park, which had 150 glaciers in 1920, still has 150, although the hoaxers would have you believe the number closer to 25.

Oceanologists are wrong when they identify the widespread death of coral reef.

Measurements spanning the globe have been doctored to further the socialist conspiracy.

Someone melted the Snows of Kilimanjaro with a blowtorch, trying to pull the wool over your eyes.

Invasive species records are being distorted.

The spread of malaria into regions of the world it never afflicted before has been fabricated.

250,000 people a year are not being displaced by unprecedented weather events.

Sea-level measurements are wrong; sea-temperature measurements are a pack of lies.

The conspiracy by the communists is clearly far more organized, far better thought out, than Joseph McCarthy ever dreamed!

And the grays are fighting an intergalactic war with the blues, and the front line is Area 51!

Docelder| 12.14.09 @ 11:49AM

This article from 1990 is one of the most interesting articles I have read on this movement. Note it was written in 1990, and predates the politics of this issue.

http://www.thefreemanonline.or.....or-the-90s

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 12.14.09 @ 12:10PM

“Someone melted the Snows of Kilimanjaro with a blowtorch, trying to pull the wool over your eyes.”

Liberal Reader, you seem like a nice little girl to me, but I think you’re a little off, on a few these points you made here, but I’ll just comment on one of them.
It seems that the continent of India, that’s been crashing into the continent of Asia (in very slow motion) for at least the last decade or so, has a little more to do with warming in Africa than anything else does. It seems those “tiny” Himalayan Mountain over there, have changed the weather patterns all across the continent of Africa, turning it from the lush, fertile lands, that they were in the 1950’s (or slightly before that, I'm not sure?), into the ever-growing desolate desert that it is today. I guess that’s Americas’ fault too, for being an ally with the country of India, and helping India grow those pesky little mountains? No, no, wait a second, that doesn’t make any sense at all, because plate tectonics has been going on for a little bit longer than that I guess, but somehow it’s Americas’ fault that it’s going on anyway. Right? So CO2 is the cause of the heat and deserts of Africa? Umm, No, it’s not!! But you just go on believing it, because Al Gore told you so. Just because somebody says it, doesn’t make it so. Go back to playing with your dolls.

Liberal Reader| 12.14.09 @ 3:03PM

Lullaby --

Your response is incoherent and illogical. No one is arguing that AGW is responsible for everything bad; no one is arguing that the U.S. is solely responsible for AGW.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 12.14.09 @ 6:50PM

Lib-R: My response to you, is as coherent and logical as any of yours, or Fat Albert’s, and it also happens to be true, despite my sarcasm.

You fag Liberals make me sick, and you “do” blame everything bad in the World “that has ever happened” on the USA, and ignore everything “Great” that America has ever done, all at the same time. If you want to go back to the dark ages, and live in harmony with nature like you might believe the Indians did, just go ahead, drop out, and join a commune out in the friggin’ woods, but leave the rest of us alone. But remember, don’t burn any wood out there, to keep your ass warm, because that releases carbon too, and we can’t have any of that.

CO2 is a poison now? Are you people even listening to yourselves? Everything has carbon in it, every living thing is built by it, and it’s not a poison, in any way shape or form.

Pete| 12.14.09 @ 11:40AM

Nice try. I won't bother fact checking anything you wrote, because it is beside the point. The hoax is whether or not any climate fluctuations are directly caused by human CO2 production. This is the source of the big lie and the fear stick being used to try to tax everyone into oblivion to fabricate an entire green industry in order to enrich the Goracle and his fellow believers. Pack of frauds.

Docelder| 12.14.09 @ 11:44AM

Say global warming was true. Say it was. What good will come from creating a carbon tax and carbon exchanges? In what way will this decrease CO2 or decrease hydrocarbon usage? So when carbon traders are getting rich trading and making carbon market bubbles, what incentive will there ever be to quit using carbon as a fuel source? None. Especially since the traders will have lobbyists in place to ensure that this never happens, once it is monetized. Think of it this way. Halliburton makes a lot of money from war. Is this an incentive to have less war or more war? Depends on who owns the stocks doesn't it? Same thing with the carbon tax.

JP| 12.14.09 @ 11:50AM

LR,

"The evil plan includes doctoring photos to create the illusion that glaciers all over the world are melting. Glacier park, which had 150 glaciers in 1920, still has 150, although the hoaxers would have you believe the number closer to 25. "

Over 80% of the glaciers in GNP can be dated to the LIA (1350-1850). That is, they are the deterious of the last 500 year cool period. Before that, there were few glaciers there.

"Oceanologists are wrong when they identify the widespread death of coral reef. "

Strawman. This is another one of those none-study studies.

"Measurements spanning the globe have been doctored to further the socialist conspiracy"

If only. GISS, NOAA, and CRU do not use raw instrument records, but homogenized, adjusted and extrapolated computations based on unpublished statistical methods. You really need to educate yourself on this.

"Someone melted the Snows of Kilimanjaro with a blowtorch, trying to pull the wool over your eyes."

Mt K's ice cap is a function of two things: land use and the Southern Oscillation. Both effect high level precipitation. BTW, the temps at the summit of Mt K remain below freezing year round. wo peer reviewed papers published in the last 6 years support this.

"Invasive species records are being distorted"

???

"The spread of malaria into regions of the world it never afflicted before has been fabricated. "

?????
"250,000 people a year are not being displaced by unprecedented weather events. "

By unprecedented what exactly you mean? Hurricanes? Tornados? Floods? You can account for every one of the 250,000 and correlate each displacement with CO2?

"Sea-level measurements are wrong; sea-temperature measurements are a pack of lies"

A 2mm rise in 10 years? Why even bother? And as far as sea surface temps, they peaked in 1998, and have been falling globally since 2003.

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