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The Spectacle Blog
I remember once reading an author who began by saying that he wasn’t a big fan of Paul. I was offended by that because I thought, “Who are you to pronounce yourself a non-fan of Paul? Furthermore, who cares whether you’re a fan of Paul?”
I say this because I have been reading Caritas in
Veritate by Pope Benedict. As I read, I find I agree and
disagree with different portions of it. I can imagine a Catholic
saying, “Who are you to disagree with the Pope? And who cares,
Protestant boy?” I am very sensitive to that sentiment.
The quick version is this. The pope is very impressive as he writes about the nature of knowledge. He has very clearly grasped that the way we view knowledge is unnecessarily stunted and frankly, unworkable.
The part that brings me up a little short is the way he writes about economics. There are some very substantial insights there about how capitalism has a tendency to undermine its own foundations. At the same time, however, he seems to be hinting at the kind of social programs and employment guarantees that have often proved harmful to the development of productive lives by whole groups of human beings.
I continue to work my way through the document which is fairly heavy lifting.
View all comments (17) | Leave a comment
More Blog Posts by Hunter Baker
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/07/09/quick-conservative-protestant
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Bill Pearce | 7.9.09 @ 11:20AM
It is a good thing the protestants were excommunicated from the Catholic Church century's ago. Is a protestant conservative we do not have to follow any dictates from the “Holy Farther”. Consider if the Pope had a ecclesiastical vision that all Christians had to worship a bearded, tattooed, blue monkey (see TAS cover) in the nude, the protestants can reject such a dictate as absurd. For the Protestants the Caritas in Veritate is just optional reading. We await your book report with leaded and stain-glass eyes.
Tim| 7.9.09 @ 12:06PM
Consider if the Pope had a ecclesiastical vision that all Christians had to worship a bearded, tattooed, blue monkey (see TAS cover) in the nude, the protestants can reject such a dictate as absurd.
Why yes they can. Or they can cleave to Jim Jones, David Koresh or the simple stupity of a Jim and Tammy or Pat Robertson.
We can insult each other all day. Doesn't prove anything. Hate the Pope, you're entitled too, but don't tell me that having rejected central authority your team is free from error and sin.
Perhaps there's a Buddist out there who will post and explain how we're both full of shite...
Tim| 7.9.09 @ 12:07PM
"simple stupity"
D'oh!
EcumenicalMike| 7.9.09 @ 12:11PM
Neither of you dopes can spell, or type to be more charitable, and it really detracts from your arguments.
Bill Pearce| 7.9.09 @ 12:37PM
OK, The joke was over the top and excessive. I do humbly apologize. However the basic point still stands. For the Protestants the "Caritas in Veritate" is optional not mandatory.
Tim| 7.9.09 @ 12:50PM
Me not spel gudd? Unpossible!
Tim| 7.9.09 @ 12:53PM
BTW Mr. Pearce, thanks. Maybe we really all can get along.
L. Ross| 7.9.09 @ 1:38PM
Tim: have you been reading LOLCATZ? I think you could have a terrific future there.
As a Protestant with a lot of Catholic friends I just want to toss out a thought to my fellow Protestants.
Wake up, boys and girls. The Catholic church of today has cleaned up its act tremendously since Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the door of the church. Get your heads out of your collective butts and look around. The Catholic church is seriously pro life, pro marriage, and pro sticking to what it believes, not what is expedient. I'm not going to address your local church, but the leadership of many of our Protestant denominations is totally out to lunch. God has taken a backseat to politcal expediency. Let's not pick on Catholics until we have our own house in order. That should hold us over until at least the Rapture.
Teflon93 | 7.9.09 @ 4:18PM
Ah, the anti-Catholic bigots are rolling thru the comments already...
One difficulty for Protestants reading any encyclical is that the Holy Father pastors 2 Billion Catholics all over the world. He is not just speaking to the Church of Christ the Lord in Squeegee, Arkansas. One must therefore read it with a very broad mind and not one oversensitive to criticism of America. As Pope Benedict XVI's visit demonstrated, he is quite fond of America and views the parishes here as on the forefront of the battle against secularism.
That said, we are not to be spared some criticism. Nor should we be. Many Americans give nothing to charity. We call them liberals. Democrat pols never give much to charity until running on a presidential ticket. Should they be immune from criticism for lack of concern for the poor? I don't think so.
Should their pursuit of money and power be ignored? Should Algore and Bill Clinton get a pass on those ridiculous speaking fees and declaring their old underwear on their taxes? Nope.
The Pope speaks not to a collective but to a collection of individuals---to each of us.
How many Americans have discovered that money doesn't buy happiness? How many have wasted their lives in its pursuit prior to discovering this?
Anyone worried that the Pope is a communist---especially given his predecessor's commitment to anti-communism---simply is leading with their bias.
We are all called to love our neighbor as ourselves by Christ. Most conservatives have no quarrel with private charity freely given, nor should we. Much of charitable giving the world over is done thru the Catholic Church. I would far sooner give 50% of my income to her than to Barack Obama---she'll at least do something useful with it.
The early Christians weren't communists either. Oh, they experimented with goods in common, but as sinners joined saints that proved impractical, prompting the apostolic rejoinder that no man should eat who wouldn't work.
Christ wasn't anti-capitalist either. The parable of the talents is in part about using money for good things---to increase the abundance and joy in the world. Remember what happened to the servant who buried the talents. I'm sure this passage got skipped over in Rev Wright's pulpit.
The Holy Father's concern must ever be that we of the City of Man don't lose sight of the City of God. That means not worshipping even so good and useful a thing as money.
And I think there are far more liberals who engage in such idolatry than conservatives, fueled as they are by the deadly sin of envy.
Liberal Reader| 7.9.09 @ 7:06PM
Teflon --
RE: "Christ wasn't anti-capitalist"
As I'm pretty sure you're aware, this is an anachronistic assertion. I think you probably mean that capitalism doesn't contradict the Gospel in any essential way, just as a juke-box or a tube of Crest toothpaste in no way violates what we find in the New Testament.
Jesus lived in a world in which "capitalism" simply did not exist.
You could just as easily say that Jesus also had no problem with taxes ("Give unto Caesar"), but again, that hardly suggests how we should frame tax policy today.
The pope's instructions would seem to suggest, as I understand them, that societies are morally bound to alleviate human suffering and create the conditions in which people can prosper and flourish. The Church is committed to social justice.
I'm afraid that means that many of you will have to amend your belief that the Catholic Church is some exotic PAC that works tirelessly on behalf of the Republican party. As far as I can tell, except for the life issue, on which Democrats are tragically in error, the Republican party and its ethos of aggression, consumption, and ceaseless self-congratulation are not entirely in line with Catholic values.
Liberal Reader| 7.9.09 @ 7:12PM
Teflon --
RE: "The early Christians weren't communist either"
Actually, the early monastic movements of the Church were powerfully influenced by Iamblichus and by a tradition they believed to be passed down from Pythagoras, who had their enormous respect. Pythagoras, of course, was a "communist" -- although a better word might be "communalist."
(Jesus seems to have held an aversion to money, which is probably why his chosen followers had a treasurer. At any rate, if by "early Christian" you mean the followers of Jesus in the Gospel, they seem to have been very communistic.)
Again, these terms veer quickly into anachronistic territory. However, I recommend you read Erasmus on the early Christians -- particularly Adages 1.1 and 1.2. (He should be a good Catholic authority for you to consult.)
Liberal Reader| 7.9.09 @ 7:19PM
I don't have clear evidence from the Gospel about Jesus' attitude towards money.
However, there is reasonable speculation that there was a treasurer for an organization that probably did not have much money to hold because Jesus and his disciples were, like many religious people in his time, averse to touching money -- even if it belonged to them. This theory has been advanced, at any rate, by some biblical scholars. There is no direct evidence in the Gospel.
Teflon93 | 7.9.09 @ 9:01PM
Ahem---the anachronisms were the point.
Many on the Left---including, sadly, a goodly portion of my Catholic brothers and sisters---seek Gospel support for their leftist beliefs in a most anachronistic fashion. The most recent fad is making Jesus into an ur-environmentalist.
No, I don't think Jesus was a Republican. But as a conservative, I'm not required to. You've got the wrong tribal affiliation if you think the notion of Christ as not being a Republican shocks or offends me (although I might take umbrage at the notion that he wasn't at least a winking Whig.)
Catholic values are Christ's values. And no group of men---no, not even my conservative tribal brothers---are ever fully congruent with Christ, ecumenical councils and papal elections excluded.
Unfortunately for the leftists, though, Christ is no relativist either---otherwise, no "Go ye accurseds", right?
Dismissing what the Pope has to say about economics because he criticizes the excesses of free market capitalism---to the extent that he does---while ignoring the Church's opposition to the authoritarian regimes the Left loves is pretty silly. The Holy Father's not giving investment advice here---unless you consider the implications that the greatest return on investment of all arrives not in this world but the next.
And as a banker, I'm just glad I'm not being hurled into the outer darkness for usury.
Teflon93 | 7.9.09 @ 9:08PM
And of course the apostles soon abandoned communalism, although the practice reappeared much later in monastic practice.
St Paul reports on the free-rider problem of every commune:
2 Thessalonians 3:
1: Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:
2: And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
3: But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
4: And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
5: And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
6: Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
7: For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
8: Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
9: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
10: For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11: For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
12: Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
13: But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
14: And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15: Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
16: Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all.
17: The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.
18: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Liberal Reader| 7.9.09 @ 10:55PM
Teflon --
I appreciate both your posts. I'm not sure I'm entirely with you in your reading of the biblical text you cite.
And I wouldn't want to be around if a real conservative like Edmund Burke or Dr. Johnson heard you suggest Jesus might have been capable of sympathy for Whiggery.
Needless to say, you're right when you point out that all men fall short. That's why there is a Church and a pope, as near as I can tell.
I'm not such an admirer of capitalism as you are, either, although I don't have anything to offer in place of it.
Go to Las Vegas; go to Hollywood. There's your capitalism, writ large.
The beautiful churches of Europe, and really the Church itself, were built by communities of people working together cooperatively. Nothing good or true or meaningful happens otherwise.
Angel| 7.10.09 @ 4:01AM
We've been through this before, LR/Jeremiah: Hollyweird is run by debauched, soulless liberals/progressives just like you. There's YOUR Progressivism writ large.
How you can reconcile your 'Catholicism' with your Progressivism, I'll never know. Perhaps you're a sociopath--they don't have a conscience either.
John Hemmer| 7.13.09 @ 2:44PM
I am a Conservative Roman Catholic. I also believe very much like Conservative Protestants.
What we have in common is our belief in: the Holy Trinity, the Natural Law, that there exist eternal absolutes of right and wrong; some of which are summarized in the Declaration of Independence. Namely, that God endowed us with the Gifts of Life, Liberty (free will) and Intellegence to Pursue Happiness; which is, untimately, His Kingdom. Systems of Government which promote this exercise of these gifts are Good; Systems which deny the exercise of these gift are Evil. Statist forms of Government that claim that the individual must bend to the will of the State are inherently Evil. Forms of Government that promote Life and Liberty with reasonable bounds are Good. Capitalism is good when it is not corrupted by fraud because it allows us to exercise our free will. There is no merit in helping other in need if we are forced to do it. Charity must be voluntary. Most liberal Catholics do not realize this. It is also why Conservative Christian give more to Charity than Liberals.