The American Spectator

Alan Brooks| 7.7.09 @ 9:54PM

sure, RSM, and the outcome is another Gingrich in November of 2010.

The Great Techno-Hot Air, Kandy Flake Moonwalk Song And Dance

AROUND AND AROUND WE GO.

Stogie| 7.7.09 @ 11:12PM

Great comment Brooks; since it means absolutely nothing I assume you must be a Democrat.

I do hope there is another Republican revolution in 2010 and we throw these clueless fools out; but I don't know if I or the country can wait that long. We are in deep doo-doo, economically.

Bart| 7.8.09 @ 12:31AM

You don't nearly have the troll traffic you did 7 months ago either, do you? Bless their little troll hearts. They were all so hopey-changey and clueless.

On comment caught my eye:

It's far more expensive to drill for oil here than in Saudi Arabia or most other places. As I understand it, our reserves are mostly heavy sour crude while what you need to gas up your car is light sweet crude.

That about sums up the liberal mentality. Precisely backwards, but never in doubt.

Elle| 7.8.09 @ 1:11AM

A professor said "you can't have a revolution without money". People tend to think that when it hits them in the pocketbook, that is when
the people will revolt, but that is when they are helpless to do anything. It sounds like we are catapulting to that place in our economy.

JP| 7.8.09 @ 7:29AM

As some people have mentioned earlier, the March to May rally was a suckers rally. Instutional investors attempted to recover some of the money they lost in 2008, and used Obama's Happy Talk to push equities higher. There was nothing in the economic data to justify the rally. Ditto for the recent surge in oil prices. All I heard from analysts was the expectations for a recovery in consumer and business spendng beginning in the summer drove oil prices higher. Heck, we still have unused petrol inventories from last autumn. Now that reality has set in, energy prices have taken a beating. But, in both cases the suckers got caught up in the hype and bought into it.

Since January 2009 the federal government has spent, borrowed, and printed over $3 trillion. In the meantime some 2 million jobs have been lost. Real estate prices continue to fall in most parts of the nation, foreclosures are still near record levels, as are credit card write-offs. In the mean time, Congress and the President are cooking up a sure fire formula for financial disaster.

John| 7.8.09 @ 8:19AM

There was no sucker's rally... just an uptick in the positive oscillation of the sine curve that will remain in place for the foreseeable future.

My observation is that there will be about a 600 point reciprocal movement along a fairly predictable axis until a new economic policy is put into place that will allow for new capital to flow into the markets and new profits can be made.

Markets make money off of consistent movement. All up, all down, or up/down... as long as the trader's computers and the purchasable instruments exist, if the market moves, someone will figure out how to make some money off of it.

The big issue will be where that axis is headed in the mid and long terms. It looked like a leveling off had occured at around 8400 or so. That looks to be changing to the negative of late.

Until this government changes and the real subtantive and useful things done to actually really stimulate the economy (income tax cuts, elimination of capital gains taxes, elimination of corporate taxes -or fixation at a nominal low rate, strong dollar stable money supply policies... etc) this will absolutely continue.

This is now "The One's" economy. The Dear Leader and his cronies are running this nation into the ground, and most of the voting public are too ill educated, uninformed, and envy ridden to understand and react to what the Dems are doing.
(which is what the Dems planned all along...)

r/John - TMF

Liberal Reader| 7.8.09 @ 9:13AM

I accept that you disagree with Obama's policies.

However, it betrays a lack of understanding of how the economy works to find proof the stimulus is not working in recent statistics.

1. Stimulus money has barely begun to be spent.

2. What has been spent is often propping up states whose legislatures are slashing spending in response to falling revenues. (This is foolish, since consumers have stopped spending as well.)

3. Economic stimulus takes months if not years to be felt across the board.

4. The statistics upon which you are supposedly relying took time to collect: they're inherently distorted. Only time will tell what's happening in the economy right now.

5. Your overall philosophy, that the government should cut spending during a recession, is false and ludicrous. The government -- state and federal -- is the one entity that can afford to spend during recession. If the government doesn't spend, who will? Everyone is saving and waiting to see what happens. That's precisely when the government should be spending.

All this talk about "socialism" and Marxism is just stupid name-calling.

Government spending during recessions is a time honored response. Reagan did it; Bush did it too.

So why don't you grow up?

Merlin| 7.8.09 @ 9:37AM

^^So there's no way to really know how the "stimulus" package is doing for some time... but, in the meantime, we should enact another one?

A recession is a time for government to spend, but massively increased spending (and printing/borrowing/etc.) coupled with higher taxes (i.e. cap and trade) is dangerous ground for the people.

Also, @ your #4 - perhaps you should relay that to the administration constantly pushing the "saved or created" stats...

Words like socialism are being thrown around because of the increasing size and power of the government and its programs (cars, banks, possibly healthcare, cap+trade... etc.)

Pete| 7.8.09 @ 9:56AM

Much like during the election, you aren't supposed to look behind the curtains, you are just supposed to "hope" and "believe."

Hermit| 7.8.09 @ 10:16AM

The One rejected policies that could have had an immediate impact on the economy not because they didn't work but because he and his team could not pick the winners.
For far less than we have committed to spend in the Pork bill we could have immediately put money in the hands of consumers and business alike. A one year suspension of all individual and business taxes would have cost less and had a more rapid impact on the whole economy. If stimulating the economy were the objective there were a number of proven alternatives. For Obama and the Democrats tax policy in not about revenue it is about control, picking winners and losers, it is about redistribution and punishment.
Increasing regulations and expanding government does not create jobs or wealth. The One talks about his “tax cuts” for 95% of Americans what a fraud! One time checks to Senior citizens and non tax payers and $13 per week… in reduced payroll deductions.
Obama’s problem is the “Stimulus Bill he signed was not simulative it was a thank you for electing us bill rewarding groups and entities that contributed.
It worked out really well for the UAW didn’t it? They now are major owners GM and Chrysler and according to the letter sent by Gettlefinger to his membership they didn’t have to give any wage or benefits concessions.
If Obama wanted to actually stimulate the economy he could have done any number of things that would have had a far more rapid and significant impact in terms of stimulating the economy and creating jobs. He chose another path and unfortunately for all of us it is going to deepen and prolong the recession.
It is unfortunate that those that gave us the One could not be the sole beneficiaries of his enlightened and brilliant economic leadership.

Talk about growing up forget George Bush and forget Reagan your team fought for the reigns of power and have them . Your team has had control of both houses since 2006. Read the damn constitution and tell me who has the power of the purse. We are in the 3rd full year of Democrate rule and it aint going too well from my perspective and frankly it looks to be getting o whole lot worse.

unbirthday fairy | 7.8.09 @ 10:26AM

A liberal is only a liberal till they get rich; then it's "Wait! That's MY money! What right does government have to take so much of it? I can spend it better than the government can! I, I,,,oh yeah. Bummer, dude. Oh, but how can I stay made at the Big O? Ooohh!! He looked at me! AHHHHHHH!!!!!! I hear he likes soy lattes too! Isn't he like so cool!!!"

John G.| 7.8.09 @ 10:34AM

Let's see....spend $800 billion to stimulate the economy (with, what we were told, were shovel-ready projects waiting for cash to start working). Three months in, and the green shoots we've been hearing about are nothing more than weeds.

The solution: We need ANOTHER stimulus package.

BRILLIANT!

Too bad the GOP might as well have to parade Howdy Doody for the 2012 campaign as their nominee, otherwise, they might actually be able beat St. Barack in the election.

Liberal Reader| 7.8.09 @ 11:12AM

Unsurprisingly, your posts are confusing different issues.

The call for another stimulus is coming largely from economists who believed the first stimulus wasn't big enough. It's more a supplement than a second stimulus package.

Just because some of the spending is intended for "shovel ready" projects, it does NOT mean you can expect a miraculous recovery in three months.

This is one of the worst recessions in decades, and it comes after a decade of economic growth that largely left out the middle class (that is to say -- YOU). On top of it all, the recession is being weighed down by systemic failures in massive sectors of the economy -- the financial sector being the most important.

None of you really believe a recovery could happen in three months or even a year. You're arguing in bad faith, in other words. You're being intellectually dishonest, as are the disc jockeys and Republican leaders who are guiding you.

The stimulus isn't working? Where do you think we'd be if there hadn't been a stimulus?

The states are floating on stimulus dollars, and whatever "green shoots" there are wouldn't be there if this spending had never occured.

We are, however, still in danger that this recovery (like Bush's) will not be shared by the middle class in the form of more higher paying jobs. (Bush's job gains were not very good for the middle class, surprise surprise.)

The jobless recovery right now is the big concern. A supplementary stimulus may be the best way to avoid it.

JP| 7.8.09 @ 11:25AM

Liberal Reader,
Back in January, the President said there were over $325 billion of "shovel ready" projects the states had in the wings. Yet, we are told something now quite different.

The GAO said thus far over 50% of the stimulus has been spent by states to lessen thier budget defecits. That isn't stimulus. 48 states went on a spendng binge during the last decade, and only a few states actually were able to balance thier budgets last year.

There has been no history of "stimulus" spending ever bringing our national economy out of recession.

The classic way to end this recession would be for Washington to suspend both the Corporate and Federal Sales Taxes for 6 months.

And John,
I hope you were buying stocks in early June. Yes, this was a suckers rally. When analysts are encouraging people to buy stocks despite contined recession, falling real estate prices, and record foreclosures, it is a suckers rally.

Mary| 7.8.09 @ 12:11PM

No one knows everything that was in that first stimulus bill. It couldn’t be read because of the “looming disaster.” What did emerge wasn’t inspiring. Pelosi couldn’t defend the woolly headed stuff that was in the bill when she was given the opportunity. Whoever elected Obama voted to give Pelosi, et al a great deal of power. Let’s face it, that bodes ill.

And whatever stimulus dollars are waiting to be disbursed in the next year are going to be working against an increase in minimum wage that’s happening this month. It’s nonsense to believe these people know what they’re doing when they don’t even read or can’t read the legislation that they write. It’s the same kind of nonsense “save or creates” jobs is: it’s not something you can measure.

Reproving Biden (teh stoopids) Obama recently said they were working without a complete set of facts. Why can’t he say, “be patient we never said that you’d be able to see results in 5 months time. These things take time.” If they were working without a complete set of facts then a sober administration should have been willing to work at a slower, more deliberative pace. If not, what are the new facts that they now know that were impossible to know then?

They’re winging it on Cap and Trade . By the time this begins to be felt it’s likely to be known as cap and raid. They’re winging it on health care too. His ABC/Townhall couldn’t have convinced many people of the competence of Obama and his administration here. They don’t know what the effects of their winging it will be, or if they do they don’t care. It’s about ideology, and power.

They’re trying to re-order the American economy and society so fast that competence is not possible. We’re in the unenviable position of having a president who has Peggy Noonan trying to feed him his historical “sentence.”

In case link doesn’t work: http://tinyurl.com/mr2uuz

Mary| 7.8.09 @ 12:14PM

Let me give this one more try.

L. Ross| 7.8.09 @ 1:20PM

Liberal Reader:

Congratulations on posting coherent thoughts written in intelligible English. Don't get that from liberals too often here.

I understand that you want to support BHO, as he is your team captain, and he has ECONOMISTS advising him.

The funny thing about economists is that there will be just as many on one side of an issue as there are on the other. That's because it isn't a real science. It is more like witch doctoring. It's predictive power is very, very low.

Boeing can build a 787, and know how it will fly with high precision before it ever gets off the ground because aeronautics is a science. The Wright Brothers were able to change one thing at a time, and determine optimum wing shapes for their propellers and their wings. Over the last 100 odd years, we have been expanding on that experience.

The last time an experiment of this size was committed against the U.S. economy was about 75 years ago with very questionable results. I submit to you that the economy of today has very little in common with the agrarian/industrial economy of the Great Depression. Therefore, we have NO experimental data that is useful on dumping truckloads of money at the economy to help it to rebound.

By the way, isn't it interesting that most people agree this collapse was brought on by real estate bubble, yet almost no funds have gone to home-owners to stabilize their situations? No, BHO is instead nationalizing banks, auto-makers, and insurance companies.

Liberal Reader, let's try to make this personal. Let's say that I gave you $1,000,000,000,000 to jumpstart the economy. I don't want you to waste it, I want that money to go to the people best positioned bring dramatic economic growth as a result of that cash infusion. To whom would you send the money? Can you pick out a future Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet, or those guys at Microsoft? Henry Ford, or William Boeing or Jack Northrop? Or, would you instead just kind of smear the money around, hoping that something good would come of it in the long term? That is my gripe with this stimulus bill. They don't know where to spend the money, so they end up wasting vast fortunes to attain a transitory uptick in the stock market.

And yes, I do have an alternative. Let the market work. Central planning has been tried many times, and failed every single time it has been tried. Let the market find its own bottom. Once we get to bottom, we will start climbing out again, without the tremendous waste of funds. That is the nature of an economy. They go up and down. Trying to prevent that from happening is just folly.

John - TMF| 7.8.09 @ 2:23PM

Oh... one very simple fact needs to be added to the stream, and it must be understood.

There WAS NO STIMULUS BILL PASSED. NONE... ZERO. It was 15 years of pent up Democrat Pork barrel spending for their social engineering and special interest rewards, nothing more.

The Dems hadn't been able to dole out their pork since the GOP took over congress in 1994. They were true to their fondest tactic, and and the current crisis was most definitely not wasted.

What was wasted is trillions of American taxpayer dollars (tax payers from the 2010-2040 working generations).

We can only hope that the Dems fail fast enough to get them out of office and rescue the economy by 2016.

r/John - TMF

Liberal Reader| 7.8.09 @ 3:01PM

L Ross --

And I appreciate your cogent and well thought out response to my post. Usually people around here just accuse me of being a communist or worse.

I cannot identify the next Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. No one can, and there is a genius in the free market that manages to do that quite well.

Two things:

1. Obama agrees with you. I know on the right everyone is chanting that he's a socialist or whatever, but it's not true.

2. This recession is more than just a hiccup or a correction. Major sectors of the economy are failing. But more generally, the economy has been failing the middle class since the 80s. Wages have stagnated, and one of the reasons for the credit crisis is that people have been compensating for what amounts to pay cuts by borrowing. A more robust, stable middle class, unmolested by sky-rocketing health and education costs, is greatly to be desired -- even if it means initial government spending.

We may fundamentally disagree on this last point.

Frankly, my concern is with the stability and health of the middle class and with out nation's infrastructure. The Republicans don't offer anything to remedy the problems facing these two things. I think the Democrats -- God help us -- do.

So -- the free market it great. It's wonderful. But it's a means, not an end. These days the middle class lives in constant fear that something unexpected will knock them out of place or prevent them from sending their kids to college. These are the people who have my sense of moral solidarity, and I don't see the free market solving their problems alone.

smchudej| 7.8.09 @ 5:53PM

President Obama has that pesky housing crisis all worked out and it will work! As a matter of fact, the President just recently dictated his housing mandate at a town hall meeting in Texas. Read all the details here:

http://www.velveetaelvis.com/Breaking_News_.html

Send the link to everyone you know...There's nothing to worry about! The recovery is steamrolling our way any minute now!

Mary| 7.8.09 @ 9:11PM

Read these:

We'll Scam You.

Abracadabra.

Tale Of Denial.

H/T: Poster RCAR over at Contentions.

In case links don't work:

http://tinyurl.com/m4a6qt
http://tinyurl.com/mx2z4j
http://tinyurl.com/lqdy8s

Mary| 7.8.09 @ 9:26PM

And there is this series -most recent segment linked- that shouldn’t be missed either.

Back up: http://tinyurl.com/n48sfj