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The Spectacle Blog
Now, after President Obama has shown a willingness to pursue vindictive probes of Bush administration officials for the use of enhanced interrogation techniques, the preeminent funder of America’s left, George Soros, is calling for the establishment of a kind of star chamber to help the left pay back the previous administration for launching the War on Terror.
According to a report from Byron York of the Washington Examiner, Soros has joined with MoveOn, which he funds generously, to urge the creation of “a commission of inquiry to examine and report publicly on America’s use of torture in the period since September 11, 2001.”
Soros’s proposal was included in an email sent out by his Open Society Institute. The email refers the reader to the “Commission on Accountability,” whose website makes the incredible claim that “[t]he report issued by the commission will strengthen U.S. national security and help to re-establish America’s standing in the world.”
No, it won’t. It will poison America’s politics for decades to come, as former Solicitor General Ted Olson told York. It is the kind of thing a Third World banana republic does.
After being disappointed time and time again by the pseudo-conservative Bush administration, which among other things, started the country down the road to Mussolini-style corporatism, I have no affection for the ancien regime, but in America we resolve policy differences through elections. We don’t use the legal system after officials have left office to turn their lives upside down in pursuit of a nakedly partisan political agenda.
Launching an American Inquisition is pure madness. It’s a slow kind of national suicide by investigation and litigation.
View all comments (49) | Leave a comment
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Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 1:33PM
Vadum --
Why is it you insist upon using the word "evil" to describe this?
How do you describe "evil"? Is it just anything with which you disagree?
I would define evil in this way: Evil relishes death and pain. People who feel pleasure or delight in the suffering of others are evil.
People, for example, who derive sadistic pleasure tormenting other people are evil.
Now -- there are different ways we might respond to the torture issue. I don't happen to believe we should have any inquiries or trials of American agents or government officials.
But I don't see how you can accuse Americans concerned about abuses of power and excessively cruel treatment of prisoners -- many of whom were found to have had nothing to do with terrorism -- to be "evil."
It is an irresponsible use of the word. Like your uses of the words "totalitarian" and "fascist" in recent posts, it betrays a shallowness, a lack of sensitivity to language, a lack of historic sense, and an impoverished moral imagination.
Pingback| 4.24.09 @ 1:40PM
An Evil and Un-American Proposal | But As For Me links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Matthew Vadum | 4.24.09 @ 1:48PM
Troll Paine:
The purpose of the proposed panel is to inflict suffering. It would be a show trial. There is an utter absence of good faith. It serves no purpose other than to humiliate and ostracize the previous administration for its lawful policy decisions. If you support this proposal, you support evil. What other word describes this? 'Evil' fits the bill. If you are consistent, you may also think we should reach back in time and prosecute Bill Clinton for bombing the aspirin factory. How about we go after Jimmy Carter for the failed Operation Eagle Claw? We could find a mountain of so-called political crimes committed by Bush the Elder, Nixon, LBJ. Some of their officials are still alive. It would never end and would extend to future administrations. If you support this, you don't deserve to live in America.
Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 2:07PM
Vadum --
I do not support this proposal, and as far as I know, the president is holding off the entire left wing of his party as well as people inside the administration that want to do it.
He appropriately forwarded the matter to the Justice Department, which would routinely look into any accusations of law-breaking. There seems to be little chance that any of this will even result in an inquiry.
All of this having been said, looking into the possibility that people have been tortured by the government of the United States of America is not "evil," and only a political hack would use such language.
Sen. McCain, Sen. Graham, and Sen. Warner -- all veterans of the armed forces, by the way, all Republicans, all supporters of the war -- have described these activities as grave abuses that possibly broke U.S. law.
These senators are hardly issuing these reports with "the purpose" of inflicting suffering. There is no evidence, no reason to believe that your accusation is remotely accurate.
Your chirping on the fringes of the fringes of the right wing is hardly significant, and I don't know what I bother to respond to someone who argues that we are in a totalitarian state. You would think that once you start agreeing with the bombers of the federal building in Oklahoma City, you'd figure out some way of questioning your conclusions.
You're right about one thing. Such inquiries would never end. That's hardly a tribute to our past presidents, Democratic or Republican. But at some point, we have to let the past be the past.
I agree with releasing this information and letting the public see what happened. I agree with releasing the documents Vice President Cheney called for to be released. Let's have this thing out. I do not agree there should be trials or hearings. Not that you care.
Pete| 4.24.09 @ 2:08PM
As an American concerned about "abuses of power" (and corruption) I would just point out that you ought not start what you can't finish. What we have witnessed in less than 100 days of the Junior Senator from Illinois's administration has enough to keep a kangaroo court busy for decades. As with close elections in the past few decades, you libs may feel you have enough lawyers on your payroll to "win" in the end, but boy would it be ugly for all involved.
Matthew Vadum | 4.24.09 @ 2:13PM
You are either a liar or an idiot, Tom.
I will not be lectured by a leftist troll who lies about my writings or whose reading comprehension is so diminished that he cannot understand them.
I have never argued "that we are in a totalitarian state." I have written that the U.S. has some corporatist policies. Not the same, troll.
Ran| 4.24.09 @ 2:24PM
" Why is it you insist upon using the word "evil" to describe this?"
Pain-In-The-Ass... Why is it that you refuse to admit that it because it is... evil? Are you foolish or merely dishonest?
" I do not support this proposal, and as far as I know, the president is holding off the entire left wing of his party as well as people inside the administration that want to do it." What a load. Firstly, Obama wants to do it... this "holding off" pose it as fake as it smells.
Secondly, "[He] won." That, with a significant amount of legislative advantage in Congress. The entire witch-hunt mentality smells of an angry, grossly immature vindictiveness that does harm on many important levels to the nation's best interest.
Matt has it exactly right.
Sensible| 4.24.09 @ 2:25PM
Tom Paine - you're a schysta. Smooth words fooling nobody. You said it too well yourself: "who derive sadistic pleasure tormenting other people are evil. "
You are exactly right. And that is exactly what Soros and his kind relish. If he can inflict pain on Bush - he will do so with pleaseure. THAT is evil.
Where is your personal proof that there were "abuses of power and excessively cruel treatment of prisoners -- many of whom were found to have had nothing to do with terrorism"?
Is your proof in the media machine somewhere? You write more intelligently than to believe what you read, aren't you?
And yet you are correct in saying there should be no inquiries or trials. On this you are correct.
Any pursuit of this subject by the ObamaClan is pure vindication of things they will never prove - and on items they either voted for or approved of in their lack of speaking out years ago.
Please quit referring to torture when you may not have the facts, but speak like you do. And to Soros and his intentions - unless you are his kind - you know his intentions for this country are bent on its undoing which is surely evil.
Ran| 4.24.09 @ 2:31PM
Just me speaking, but I think Soros is hoping to short the dollar again. He can't make money constructively, so he'll short. Did it to the Pound.
I'd like to know HOW the run on the banks started in October... Want an investigation? Can we investigate the freeze that prompted the Fed crisis, and ignore this witch-hunt BS?
Bob| 4.24.09 @ 2:40PM
Vadum -- you are constantly after people like me for the crime of "inference", yet haven't you done the same with this comment:
"Now, after President Obama has shown a willingness to pursue vindictive probes of Bush administration officials for the use of enhanced interrogation techniques"
Obama has said that he thinks this is a matter of law and that nobody is above the law. That is a far cry from a witch hunt. Just as I don't think we should give amnesty to illegal aliens, I think that if someone in any administration broke the law, they should be prosecuted. WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS. As conservatives, we need to be consistent on this. It was right of Obama to give it to his AG to determine if laws were violated. I would prefer a non-administration prosecutor to look at this, however.
That said, I must agree that a public commission is political in nature and is the wrong thing to do. It should be taken out of the realm of politics.
JG | 4.24.09 @ 2:51PM
"...but in America we resolve policy differences through elections. We don't use the legal system after officials have left office to turn their lives upside down in pursuit of a nakedly partisan political agenda"
Kudos, Matthew. This is the point that the Left doesn't quite understand, and quite frankly, never will.
The image of a pragmatic, cool and "post-partisan" Obama is just that, an image. A well-crafted one at that. The reality is however, that this administartion is highly partisan and, as we shall see, vindictive. The WaPo ran a piece today confirming the highly political nature of their release of the torture memos. They didn't realize that Cheney would slap the glove down so quickly, and put the administration and his OLC in a bit of a jam.
Let's release all of the memos, not just the ones that help create the ideological narrative the White House wishes to portray. The ones that show that the CIA actually derived intelligence that saved lives. That kept this country safe.
The only ones making this a political issue are the extremist fringes of the left. Those with a deep-rooted personal hatred for Bush and Cheney and all the rest. The Obama administration is making this political. Pelosi and her pathetic denials are making this a political issue. And so on and so on.
Big Leo| 4.24.09 @ 3:07PM
A trial prosecuting people who operated in good faith in the face of a violent catastrophe is a very bad precedent.
I believe, as many Americans do, that the present course of the government is destructive and unconstitutional. When we win an election, shall we the put the current government on trial for malfeasance or perhaps even treason? If not, why not?
I don't like waterboarding, but I don't believe it is torture, any more than the caterpillar on the bug phobic terrorist was. I do know that it prevented terrorist attacks. Letting the planning for an attack continue without coercive interrogation is immoral, too. The choice between coercive interrogation techniques and not isn't a choice between good and bad, but a choice between two bad alternatives.
Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 3:39PM
My problem is not with the argument that there should be no trials or hearings. As I've said, I agree with that idea.
My problem is with using words like "evil" to make a cheap political point.
It utterly deprives people of credibility when they use inflated and hyperbolic language like this.
But, seeing as I'm a stooge of an Italian style fascist dictator, I don't see anyone should listen to what I have to say.
Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 3:47PM
Big Leo --
No one is talking about "trying" people who believed they were following the law.
The only question is whether the lawyers who interpreted the law were acting in good faith.
This is not as unusual of an inquiry as it seems. It's only the squalid and shameful subject matter of torture that seems new. (This is because America has a tradition of not torturing prisoners.)
I normally post as Bob | 4.24.09 @ 3:50PM
Paine,
Please answer for me the central question in all of this "Why" why release the memos in the first when 5 CIA directors said he should not? It would be harmful to national interests and harmful to national security.
The only reason is political He is bowing to political pressure period. It set up this whoel investigation and trial question.
First he said don't worry no prosecutions or investigations then reversed himself (again). Then he lays it off on Holder, this is not a matter of law but politics.
The left is lathered up with the thought of getting even... this is not about the law it is about the destruction of perceived enemies and the exercise of power. Raw political revenge.
At the root it has little or nothing to do with enhanced interrogation it s about one party seeking to criminalize policy differences with their political opponents. It is far and away the preferred tool of the left. Look at how many “investigations’ Waxman alone launched since 2006. Try to get someone under oath and trip them up.
Come at it from another direction looking at the Soros claimed benefit of an investigation. How would our security be enhanced by laying bare to the world what we have and have not done in the War on terror? How are we safer more secure.
As the furor to investigate increases I note with interest that the Democratic Senate and House leadership are not being described as targets in this yet they were involved from the beginning in security briefings. AS the furor to investigate what happened in the financial meltdown increase I note Mr Frank and Dodd are not mentioned as targets.
I reject the notion that if we prostate ourselves before the world , tie our hands behind our back and give advance notice of our military and security efforts we will be safer because we play by a higher set of rules.
Let us not forget that these decisions, which by the way I agree with completely, were made after 20 members of the religion of peace flew plans into building where over 50000 Americans peacefully went to work that morning. That only 3000 died was a miracle. They are the barbarian; they are the one cutting off heads, and dismembering. There is no moral equivalence in this. They did grievous harm to life and property and sought and to this day seek to repeat their earlier success these policies and enhanced techniques prevented further loss of life and property destruction. .
Your whole argument reeks of "it was our fault in the first place if we only didn't support Israel, or didn't use oil or some other nonsense.
Vadum is correct and uses the proper word for the current administration or their willing accomplices attempt to make legitimate policy differences criminal; evil.
It will destroy the fabric of this nation. I do not pretend to know Soros' heart but looking at the groups he has funded and judging them by their tactics I would say that he does not have the best interest of this country at heart.
Evil is a very good word but maybe you would prefer despicable or sleazy or how about traitorous, to so betray founding principles for purely partisan political interests.
Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 4:00PM
normally Bob --
One thing I might recommend is that you make arguments based upon something other than suppositions about other people's motivations.
This is a variety of the ad hominem argument that poisons political discourse and makes no real sense. You don't know the motivations of other men; for you to say that these inquiries are "really" about political payback is weak surmise.
Why not argue on the merits? If you don't think we should do this, try to explain your reasoning.
You call me evil, traitorous, despicable, sleazy:
Do you honestly believe this affects me? This is not argument. It's just impotent raving. It's weak and pathetic.
If you can't stand up for yourself, if you can't make any kind of reasonable argument, what's the point?
George R.| 4.24.09 @ 4:06PM
Does anyone remember Daniel Inouye's interview in Ken Burns' War series? Inouye admitted that his Army unit in Italy shot German prisoners and added that he still won't apologize for it. Why don't we prosecute him for violating the American tradition of treating uniformed prisoners fairly?
Why can't we admit that war is an ugly thing, to be avoided at most any cost, but to be won when we're in it? That is more our history than the image that Obama is trying to peddle now
Bill Bailey| 4.24.09 @ 4:30PM
No one is listening to you Tom Paine.
Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 4:36PM
Bill --
I don't think that's correct. As usual, there are more responses to my posts than to the original article's.
That said, I don't see the point in keeping count.
JG | 4.24.09 @ 4:40PM
"Why can't we admit that war is an ugly thing, to be avoided at most any cost, but to be won when we're in it? That is more our history than the image that Obama is trying to peddle now "
Great point, George R.
Bill Bailey| 4.24.09 @ 4:42PM
Keep on with your egomaniacal self aggrandizing fantasy, TP. How you could distinguish between comments related to your comments and comments related to the original blog post is not clear. You puff yourself up as if you were the AmSpec loyal opposition. Get over yourself.
JP| 4.24.09 @ 5:00PM
"Obama has said that he thinks this is a matter of law and that nobody is above the law. That is a far cry from a witch hunt. Just as I don't think we should give amnesty to illegal aliens, I think that if someone in any administration broke the law, they should be prosecuted. WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS."
FIne. We can begin with the Treasury Secretary, and NY AG Cuomo, and continue with Sen Dodd, and Sen Feinstein. There is so much low hanging fruit surrounding TARP that half of the Treasury Dept as well the Dem Caucus could be indicted tonight.
By the way, exactly how can a legal memo, which gives an opinion, which was circulated to at least 20 members of Congress from both parties be constituted as a crime?
Please, drop the "We are a nation of laws " schtick. You Dems lost all credability on that issue with Boy Clinton.
Chemman| 4.24.09 @ 5:03PM
Tom Paine one of your arguments just doesn't wash. If the enhanced interrogation techniques are indeed torture then those at all levels who participated in there use violated the law and are subject to prosecution. The "I was following orders defense" was dealt with at Nurenburg and later with the Mai Lai incident in Vietnam and the Haditha incident in Iraq. In Mai Lai it was the low level soldiers that were punished. With Haditha, all but one member has been acquitted. But still it was the boots on the ground soldiers who were tried. Why should I believe that the CIA, FBI and Military members directly involved in the interrogations will receive a "get out of jail free care" this time.
Ran| 4.24.09 @ 5:07PM
Matt,
"Launching an American Inquisition is pure madness. It's a slow kind of national suicide by investigation and litigation"
normally bob| 4.24.09 @ 5:15PM
Thomas
You misunderstand me.... I was not calling YOU anything, I was defending the authors use of the word and suggesting applicable alternatives.
As in; The ongoing attempt by the left and democrats to criminalize policy differences is evil, despicable traitorous..
You may be right I may not know their heart as I mentioned in reference to Soros but in describing the action I think I am on safe ground.
Because someone claims they are doing something for some high minded reason does not make it so… Stalin claimed a rather flowery benefit for consolidating private farms into collectives however to the millions of farmers who died the result was no less evil.
What is being set up with these proposed investigations and trails is contrary to the history and tradition of this country. The previous government sought in good faith to protect the citizens in the face of vicious and ruthless enemy. (You may have a problem with my making judgment about them but I know of no kinder way of describing fanatics who attack incent women and children and target civilians.) They were undeniably successful in the effort in that we have not been attacked again since 2001. I happen to agree with their methods and tactic, while I would rather we did not have to resort to these techniques I have no problem with their use as applied in these cases. Mr. Obama and many on the left disagree. They disagree with much of how the war was prosecuted or at least say they do as their actions and their words are not always in sync. They prevailed in the election and accordingly have the power to change to policies and tactics. IF they choose they can dismantle the entire defense establishment. They will suffer the consequences of their decisions at the ballot box…..which in this country since the late 1780s has been hoe we handle these matters.
To subvert the peaceful transition of power to criminalize differences in policy, IS to subvert that tradition of peaceful transition and to tear one of the most fundamental elements of our system of governance and that I maintain is evil, despicable and even traitors.. It may serve someone’s short term political interest but the nation may not ultimately survive it.
I do not need to know a man’s heart or motives, I can look at their actions or results and judge them as good or not.
You take such offense at the words being use but I encourage you to read from the congressional record to see how the enlightened left refers to conservatives. Hell just look at how the Sec DHS refers to those who favor limited government and the 2nd amendment or are returning soldiers…”right wing extremists”
As to standing up for myself sir I am able either in discussion or any manner required stand up for myself and my beliefs.
Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 5:16PM
Chemman --
You make good points, and this is one of those situations where I think the best thing to do is at odds with consistency.
If it were to be shown that Bush administration lawyers acted in bad faith (i.e., that they deliberately gave legal advice they knew to be contrary to the intent of the law), I still don't think they should be prosecuted or punished.
This is for the reasons noted by many conservatives. Where would it end? Would we next re-investigate Iran Contra?
Getting as much information as possible about what the CIA did to the American people is a good thing. The people should know what is being done in their name, to the extent that national security allows.
However, there is no question that what is described in these memos is torture; there is no question we shouldn't be doing these things in the future. That's my position. I agree it's not consistent, but democracy often calls for a lack of consistency.
Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 5:22PM
normally Bob --
I did misread your previous post; I apologize for the inaccuracy of my response.
I agree that criminalizing policy differences would be disastrous.
Again, I think that Obama wants this the hell over with. That's my guess. I don't know.
What I do know for sure is that he did the appropriate thing by passing it to the Justice Department, and by promising that people who followed the guidance of these memos would not be prosecuted.
The only thing still in the works is a possible investigation into three government lawyers.
Again, I think they should not prosecute them, but then again, I'm not a lawyer or a judge.
Anyway -- I would have thought there'd be at least some support for prosecuting lawyers around here, just on basic principles.
Ran| 4.24.09 @ 5:34PM
"What I do know for sure is that he did the appropriate thing by passing it to the Justice Department, and by promising that people who followed the guidance of these memos would not be prosecuted." Absolute bullshit... that was the moral equivalent of voting "present." The right action would to have simply stated that he would tolerate no such action for the harm it would cause, consistent with the very statement that preceded the quoted drivel. You know, TP... you remind one of Cardinal Biggles. See the link above.
Normally Bob| 4.24.09 @ 5:45PM
Thomas,
Getting as much information as possible about what the CIA did to the American people is a good thing. The people should know what is being done in their name, to the extent that national security allows.
I think this is naïve and frankly dangerous. It cannot and should not be done in the moment, that it to say generally speaking in the middle of the war.
We have a military complete with their code of conduct the same hold true for our security service. They are charged with defending us, to expose their methods tactics and limits give our adversaries valuable information that will make us less secure. Further the second guessing of these efforts by civilians not faced with the danger and circumstances faced by those charge with our defense is unfair and useless. The Military will enforce the code of conduct and police the actions of their members within an informed context. The people have no such need to know, we live in a harsh world governed by the aggressive use of power. The men and women involved are called upon to do extremely difficult things in extraordinary circumstances sometimes making their decisions in a fraction of an instant. If we require that every action every effort be able to stand microscopic scrutiny in the comfort of a hearing room we will diminish the effectiveness of our services to the point making our self weak and vulnerable. They will think more of the trials to come and less of the security of the nation.
However, there is no question that what is described in these memos is torture; there is no question we shouldn't be doing these things in the future. That's my position. I agree it's not consistent, but democracy often calls for a lack of consistency.
Thomas there is in fact argument as to whether this is or is not torture the matter may be settled in your mind but is not in wider circles. The democrats have the numbers to vote now to outlaw these practices and even harsh name calling if the y wish however they choose not to…. That may be because they fear that some time in the not too distant future they may have someone in their custody and know that getting information may mean life or death for thousands of their fellow citizens… and they understand at that moment there argument is no longer theoretical.
Normally bob| 4.24.09 @ 5:48PM
Soory about the last post instead of using " " I used Itallics and the qutes from Thomas did not post as expected...
Matthew Vadum | 4.24.09 @ 6:00PM
Ran: you're right. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. Ha.
Ran| 4.24.09 @ 6:05PM
Cheers, Matt. Thanks for the posts at TAS. Almost Shabbat, gotta run. Great weekend.
Joshua| 4.24.09 @ 6:12PM
Tom Paine, I just want to say I admire your logical, thoughtful responses to this post and all the comments. While the author and everyone else immediately resorted to calling you an idiot, liar, etc... like most people do when they can't actually think rationally, you have been very kind and respectful, and presented your arguments clearly and rationally. Kudos!
Tom Paine| 4.24.09 @ 7:26PM
Normally Bob --
The matter of whether these methods are torture may not be entirely "settled," but don't pretend that it is fixed along party lines.
Democrats and Republicans, as well as dozens of military leaders, have insisted that water boarding is torture.
As you know, we executed Japanese officers for water boarding their prisoners.
Other techniques discussed in those memos are clearly torture as well -- if you use the standard of a "shock to the conscience."
But don't believe me. Ask John McCain (Republican, veteran, war hero), Sen. Graham, (Republican, veteran, military judge), and Sen. Warner (Republican, veteran). They signed off on the report that got all this started.
Basil Plumley| 4.24.09 @ 9:07PM
Matthew Vadum| 4.24.09 @ 6:00PM
Ran: you're right. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. Ha.
I am reminded of the line from A Man For All Seasons(one of my favorite movies)---
The Duke of Norfolk: Cromwell, are you threatening me?
Cromwell: My dear Norfolk... this isn't Spain. This is England.
I think this line from the movie covers Tommy Pain/Jeremiah---
They'll think that somewhere along your pedigree a bitch got over the wall!
Rivenburg| 4.24.09 @ 9:08PM
OK Paine, why don't we start with the funding of Khomeini in Iran by Jimmy Carter to the tune of $500,000 for nice trip to court?
The term Treason is largely apropos. Kinda like the Rosenberg's kinda treason all things considered. I'll bet we could find some things about bombing the population of Serbia to take to court also. Do you REALLY want to start this car?
BTW quoting McCain when convenient is shaky ground, he's demonstrated he's not quite sane any more. Long dead boxers as a cause is past pandering, into pathetically damaging to his career & any sane man would know this.
As for soros, I don't need to be a mind reader to see his goals, a shattered America. Pretty much anything that man wants should be opposed on those grounds alone.
George R.| 4.24.09 @ 11:09PM
Any commission or set of hearings will hurt everyone. Everyone will end up in the mud. It may end up hurting Obama but his rhetorical track record suggests not. Don't expect Pelosi did get caught because she would be making up the rules.
Americans do ugly ugly things when we are afraid: Indians, Japanese internment camps, etc. Most 'war crimes' are overlooked especially those committed by the winner. Dick Morris is right to caution that any public hearings will hurt the Republicans and maybe the Democrats.
If you have to prove or justify your moral superiority, it isn't!
Steve Schaper| 4.25.09 @ 2:51AM
TP, as a conservative, I have been and remain strongly opposed to the use of torture - and water torture jolly well is torture.
Yet.
The proposal to punish members of a previous administration for policy differences is extremely dangerous. As politicians realize that their lives, and those of their loved ones, depend on their not losing power to an opposition party, they will not relinquish their offices. That will be the end of the Republic.
jrobinson| 4.25.09 @ 5:01AM
Liberals need their moral equations simple. (Most of liberalism operates in a moral vacuum.) To do this, they "blank out" (ala Ayn Rand) aspects of the problem. For them to believe that torture works, would mean they would have to start to think about that uncomfortable gray area about balancing people's lives and a terrorist's comfort. So that's why you keep hearing Hillary spout nonsense that "torture simply doesn't work" ... aside from 6,000 years of recorded human history as evidence.
Similarly, for them to believe that Islamofascism is a threat would mean they would have to take the War on Terror seriously... and they might have to make difficult decisions like oh I don't know invading Pakistan to secure nukes. Much better to call them overseas contingency operations due to man-made disasters.
When all that fails, liberals always demand sacrifices... these aren't just show trials coming, I'm afraid. Obama is a Marxist Black Liberation Theologian, remember? We're about to see what Kenyan-American Marxism looks like. The left will grab everyone they can get from the previous administration and sacrifice them on the altar to our enemies... not just to placate those who wish us dead, but to satisfy their own lust for revenge. It's ugly. And I shudder to think that this is how bad it is at 100 days.
My biggest worry is what's coming. I worry this sudden shift to classify terrorism away from islamofascism and to "homegrown right wing extremists" is in preparation for something to come. I think he's worried about open revolt in the future, and laying the groundwork for an anti-terror response targeting us.
Everything about this entire situation is evil.
Pecos Pete| 4.25.09 @ 8:07AM
Mr. Vadum is correct, evil it is. There are other words that would fit as well. Actually, I think the choice of which word to describe the action is misdirection. The point of Obama's action in releasing the negative memos is to freeze any thinking person who is defending the USA.
They can not now act in our defense without worrying if they will be brought to justice for acting without permission. Or, even if they had permission.
Lots of ways to skin a bear. Cutting defense funding is one. Ruining morale is another. Bankrupting the treasury is another. Nationalizing private companies, and so on.
The first 100 days of Obama have been a disaster for freedom. We can expect more control of our lives as the Magic One has us looking at his right hand while the left hand is squeezing the Constitution.
bullwhacker| 4.25.09 @ 9:31AM
Folks, Obama is on the record during his campaign for stating that one of his first acts as President would be to investigate Bush officials for official acts. The idea that Obama is trying to fend-off or strike some kind of balance with leftist base is nonsense. Like the puppy that squares off with the household cat, Obama got whacked on the nose by the cat with his proposal and like the puppy, he is retreating.
Curtis Rasmussen| 4.25.09 @ 12:22PM
To jrobinson
Obama is a pseudo- or crypto-fascist. He is nationalizing the banks and Healthcare while paralysing the loyal opposition through the threat of persecution. Scummy Chicago racist (Jeremiah Wright follower), classist, radical, elitist politics instituted on a national level.
Black has nothing to do with it, this is pure radicalism picked up here and abroad. Unfortunately, many liberals that I know felt that it was time for a black or female president, merit be dammed. Now we all find ourselves under the thumb of a potential manchurian candidate who is doing everything in his power to weaken this country.
Pandering to thugs.
Cutting the military.
Apologizing to our enemies.
Instituting a massive debt unrivaled since the New Deal.
Subsidized and mandated green technology which will penalize the consumer thru taxes and higher fuel costs.
Unprecedented attempt to insinuate government dependency thru healthcare.
The nationalization of private enterprise.
Prosecution of prior administration officals which will set a dangerous precedent from this day forward, paralysing officials from making the hard choices in the common defense of the USA.
Did I miss anything?
Tom Paine| 4.25.09 @ 3:02PM
Rasmussen --
If you knew anything about "fascism" or its primary characteristics, you would know that "apologizing to our enemies" and "cutting the military" would be sure signs a person is not a politician. It just so happens your entire list is either false or distorted, and your overall claim that Obama is a fascist is wrong and dimwitted.
If you had any historical sense or knowledge of political systems you would know that Obama is a textbook liberal; he's not remotely "fascist." The two forms of government are opposed to one another in every way imaginable.
You missed quite a lot, actually.
Tom Paine| 4.25.09 @ 3:04PM
You people who keep claiming that Pelosi was apprised of these interrogation methods are completely wrong.
The briefings were to the so-called "gang of four," the heads of the intelligence committees. Pelosi was NOT the Speaker at the time and she was NOT on those committees.
Get your facts straight.
frp| 4.25.09 @ 9:00PM
TP, nobody is listening to you anymore. You are scum and you cannot even express yourself clearly. Leftard.
Basil Plumley| 4.25.09 @ 10:44PM
Tommy Pain/Jeremiah
Porter Goss in an op-ed today claims she was there. He was there, you were not. I guess only a liar would defend another liar. You and Pelosi Galore make a good couple.
Perhaps, another name change would be in order. That may satisfy your solipsism.
Basil Plumley| 4.26.09 @ 2:17AM
Whoops. Porter Goss does not name Pelosi by name but one must conclude either she knew or she wasn't interested(curious) in knowing(I seem to recall the later accusation hurled at W by The Left).
The WaPo article has more info on the matter. Perhaps, the journalists at the WaPo lied.
Ralph E. Benn | 4.27.09 @ 5:35PM
Snake Hunters Sez,
Tom Paine's absurd attack on Matthew Vadum's
views are inconsistent at best.
Every action, every word... at home or abroad by Prez Obama, must first have the approval of Uncle George Soros, or his minions.
Give us your honest appraisal of Soros, and his Open Society Institute. reb
jojo | 1.11.10 @ 2:00AM
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