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Rudy Giuliani: Defender of Marriage?

By W. James Antle, III on 4.22.09 @ 10:10AM

According to the Politico, some religious conservatives are applauding Rudy Giuliani for his strong opposition to New York Gov. David Paterson's gay marriage bill. They especially like his prediction that this will produce a strong backlash against the Democrats.

Given the polling on gay marriage in New York, I'm skeptical. But let's look at the larger question: Is Rudy Giuliani the best spokesman for traditional marriage? Not only is he twice-divorced, but he publicly humiliated his second wife and the mother of his children while serving as mayor of New York City. He announced the breakup of their marriage in a press conference. His third marriage began essentially as an extramarital affair. And while these are all private matters, they were conducted in an extremely public manner.

Bill Clinton has stronger family man credentials than Giuliani, since despite his extramaritial affairs he has stayed married to the same woman his whole life. I understand the importance of accepting political allies wherever you can get them, and also being encouraged that a seasoned pol like Giuliani sees the marriage issue as a boon to Republicans. But the approach to marriage personified by Giuliani is precisely why our society has gone from viewing gay marriage as a defintional impossibility to a more or less mainstream social crusade.

Social conservatives need to stop making people think they're called "values voters" because Republican politicians can buy them so cheaply.

UPDATE: No, I'm not defending Bill Clinton -- I favored his impeachment and removal from office. But let's take the Clinton analogy a step further. I was certainly pleased, and so were most social conservatives, when Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. But no social conservative leaders pretended it was anything more than a fortunate act of political opportunism and a good talking point: "Even Bill Clinton opposes gay marriage..." Why can't we have that kind of judgment when somebody has an "R" next to his name? That's all I'm saying, folks.

UPDATE II: Okay, maybe "stronger family man credentials than Giuliani" was an overstatement. But the main point still stands.

View all comments (22) | Leave a comment

MattSwartz| 4.22.09 @ 11:11AM

I'm glad that he isn't on the Gay Marriage (sic) bandwagon, but there are several women in the world who probably wish there was someone defending marriage against Rudy, rather than vice versa.

Alan Brooks| 4.22.09 @ 1:11PM

you mean because Rudy left his wife after committing adultery?

he learned his lesson.

Lily| 4.22.09 @ 2:27PM

I would never vote for Giuliani for president, but why should that preclude me from applauding his objection to Patterson's gay marriage bill? How does that make me a 'bought' Social Conservative? Ridiculous.

W. James Antle III| 4.22.09 @ 4:51PM

Accepting Giuliani's agreement is one thing, but celebrating him is another. How do you expect to win an argument in favor of traditional marriage with a spokesman who makes a mockery of it?

outraged| 4.22.09 @ 5:27PM

The statement that Bill Clinton has stronger family man credentials is remarkably stupid, but about that I would expect from AIII, who clearly is not a very intelligent person. Clinton's marriage is a meaningless shell without any moral validity. If it were the standard of straight marriage I would support gay marriage. Clinton probably had sexual encounters in the hundreds or even thousands during his marriage and likely committed rape as well. That AIII sees him as a more moral person than Giuliani just indicates what a worthless commentator AIII is.

Lily| 4.22.09 @ 5:31PM

Who is celebrating him? I suppose you'd be happier if Giuliani SUPPORTED Patterson's bill. The guy finally does something right, and you bash him and Conservatives for it. We're not known as The Stupid Party for nothing.

Julia| 4.22.09 @ 5:37PM

According to Antle, Giuliani is not the poster boy for traditional marriage, but Billy Boy Clinton is. What is it about rape that you don't understand, Antle? What a clown.

Angel| 4.22.09 @ 5:43PM

Was Giuliani impeached? Do you remember Clinton's abusive sexual harassment of Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, etc? What about Clinton's obstruction of justice? You're the one who's cheap defending Clinton's indefensible behavior. Who bought you?

W. James Antle III| 4.22.09 @ 6:30PM

No, I'm not defending Bill Clinton -- I favored his impeachment and removal from office -- and certainly don't consider him the poster boy for anything good. But let's take the Clinton analogy a step further. I was certainly pleased, and so were most social conservatives, when Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. But no social conservative leaders pretended it was anything more than a fortunate act of political opportunism and a good talking point: "Even Bill Clinton opposes gay marriage..."

Why can't we have that kind of judgment when somebody has an "R" next to his name? That's all I'm saying, folks.

Angel| 4.22.09 @ 6:46PM

I don't like Giuliani, and I don't know many Conservatives who do--but your Clinton analogy is stupid. Preposterous. You're a weaker Conservative than I am: I really do believe in individual morality. I think you're just trying to tick us off big time. Congratulations, you've succeeded.

Becky| 4.22.09 @ 8:43PM

I have never minded the label of hypocrite myself, for example, when scolding my children for skipping school, even though I was pretty good at it (skipping school) myself. I call it speaking from experience, and I tend to listen better to those who have had experience than those with theories.

The Clinton analogy works for me, whatever the personal reasons or behaviors Clinton had, the outcome was in line with what social conservatives wanted.

Rudy was a good fiscal conservative, with a tough law and order mentality. The fact that he was socially liberal and kind of inept in his own romantic affairs, does not take anything away from the benefit millions received from his leadership. If, on the other hand, his personal life was perfect, and he was a spendthrift with touchy feeling attitudes toward crime, the city would have been worse off.

I know quite a few conservatives who like Rudy. I do.

Excelsior| 4.22.09 @ 9:04PM

Anyone who observed Ms. Hanover over the years knows that is not true. The fact is that Rudy's years in City Hall were quite stressful, and she abandoned him when he needed her most. Being a nurturer is the primary duty of a wife. Men don't stray if they are happy at home.

She gave a great performance in 'The Vagina Monologues', though. It is obvious that you are not a native New Yorker, so here's some topics to think about:

Kitty Genovese
Serpico
Death Wish
Midnight Cowboy
The French Connection
Ford to City: Drop Dead
Municipal Assistance Corporation
Lazard Freres
'King Kong' starring Jessica Lange
Abe Beame
John Lindsay
Crown Heights
Washington Heights/cop murders
Dirty 30
Son of Sam
Fort Apache: The Bronx
Murdoch's endorsement of Koch
How'm I Doin'
Ben Ward/Outta Town Brown
Bratton/Kelly
Bernard Goetz
John Gotti

Remember how mad Koch got when Rudy started being successful? Koch's last term was a little cloudy. Against this history, Rudy looks pretty good. Remember welfare reform?

Now, look here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/addresses.html

Then read this: http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/96/inaug.html

And the last four paragraphs of this: http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/99b/reganlibrary.html

Rudy is a deep thinker. He took the correct, instinctual, normal, decent stand on marriage. And New York needs him, now more than ever.

Angel| 4.22.09 @ 9:29PM

You admire Giuliani but you don't mind that Antle compared him to a feckless sexual predator? Okay, that makes sense, I guess. I don't like Giuliani's stance on moral issues, and I would never vote for him; but I still think it was ridiculous to compare him to the moral slug, Clinton.

CS Lewis| 4.22.09 @ 10:43PM

I was for Rudy for President. I thought he was the toughest competitor against Hill & Obumba.
In the long run too many people stayed home and gave it away to Obumba. Now we're all just one big happy family! Not!

Pete| 4.22.09 @ 10:49PM

Rudy supports partial birth abortion. Screw him.

Daisy| 4.22.09 @ 10:52PM

He'll never be our nominee. Stay in New York, Rudy--you belong there.

MattSwartz| 4.22.09 @ 11:01PM

I can't imagine being resistant enough to cognitive dissonance to be able to position myself as a pro-Rudy social conservative.

His credentials on that issue are zero.

I guess his "leadership on family values" isn't such a stretch, really. He said one thing that social conservatives like, which isn't much different from his "leadership on terrorism", which was based on his being in the wrong place at the wrong time and manufacturing some bravado afterward.

Rudy is a Rockefeller Republican, right down to the big spending and the reprehensible personal habits. I'm actually glad he didn't win the presidency, because if he had, everything conservatives fought for since Goldwater would have been negated.

W. James Antle III| 4.23.09 @ 12:24AM

>We're not known as The Stupid Party for nothing.

Clearly.

Angel| 4.23.09 @ 1:44AM

Yes, Mr. Antle--and just WHO is the poster boy?

Maria| 4.23.09 @ 1:46AM

lol

MattSwartz| 4.23.09 @ 9:34AM

Giving Rudy credit for replacing these things with the NYC we see today is short-sighted. Demographic changes and (unsustainable) inflation did more than he ever did in that regard.

Also, I have a hard time believing you're serious in your comments about his marriage. Only scoundrels cheat, I don't care if they're coming home to total shrews or not. The "she abandoned him" meme is ridiculous. I can't imagine which would be worse: your employing it accross the board to all relationships, or your only employing it in regards to the relationships of politicians you like.

Both are a bad look...