The American Spectator

Right Wing Extremist 999999.9E| 4.18.09 @ 12:44PM

They deserve each other. We deserve neither.

danny| 4.18.09 @ 1:05PM

where's castro?

CH| 4.18.09 @ 1:22PM

No bow?

Smitty| 4.18.09 @ 1:25PM

Where are the high five and the fist bump?

Tom Paine| 4.18.09 @ 2:08PM

Obama refused a private meeting with Chavez. However, it would have been absurd and stupid of him simply to snub a democratically elected head of state in a forum like this. Obama found the appropriate response to a weird and unfortunate situtation.

As some of you know, American presidents are often faced with meeting people they don't like or approve of. Bush did it; Reagan did it too. Nixon sat down for tea with Mao.

In this brief, informal "meet" Obama exchanged polite pleasantries and that was the end of it.

The only thing "sickening" is that people around here are incapable of objective criticism when it comes to Obama. And I think we all know why that is.

Angel| 4.18.09 @ 2:24PM

The only one not objective here is you, Jeremiah/Tom Paine--as always, you remain the obsequious lib/fascist clown. Do you bow or genuflect to your in-home Obama altar?

Bob| 4.18.09 @ 2:29PM

Philip -- why didn't you mention that George Bush also shook Chavez's hand 8 years ago? You are one of the most objective posters here -- I'm surprised you missed that. It wasn't on purpose, was it?

Smitty| 4.18.09 @ 2:34PM

That was before Chavez called President Bush a devil and engaged in many subversive acts against our country, Obama toady. Oh, excuse me--RINO/Fiscal Conservative.

Interested Conservative| 4.18.09 @ 2:48PM

I dunno about this. The only hope here is that the look on the POTUS's face is the look of a Chicago trader thinking, "oh - you're my diesel supplier who I'll take to the cleaners the next few years by manipulating the market, but fair's fair, understand?"

Maybe.

Interested Conservative| 4.18.09 @ 2:50PM

Oh - "And about the devil and smell of sulfer? I think that's from your oil, so we'll have to discount it some, OK? I mean, we want it green, and costs are costs."

Bob| 4.18.09 @ 2:58PM

So what are you telling me, Smitty -- that Chavez was a great guy before he shook Bush's hand? ROTFL...

Smitty| 4.18.09 @ 3:11PM

Did you assume he was a monster before he started acting like one? Pretty judgmental for a lib/fascist, Bob.

Daphne| 4.18.09 @ 3:15PM

Two morons!

Gene| 4.18.09 @ 3:39PM

Just remember folks ,there isn't much that operates in real time when it comes to governmentS, the castro brothers and hugo and the rest of the radical left cronies there including bama are for sure looking down the road ..LOOK OUT

tonypal| 4.18.09 @ 4:01PM

Tom Paine:

Why don't you tell us why we here at TAS are incapable, as you say, of objective criticism when it comes to Obama.

Tom Paine| 4.18.09 @ 4:22PM

tonypal --

It's a fair and reasonable question you ask.

If I thought you were a fascist, I wouldn't bother to respond. If I thought you were a terrorist, or a communist, why would I give a damn what you thought?

As it happens, I don't believe these things, so I'm willing to listen to what you have to say.

Too many people here are simply indolent. They don't want to do the work of constructing reasonable critiques of Obama, so they confine themselves to name-calling. Why trouble yourself with the work of thinking, when you could just take a short-cut by chanting, in contemptible unison, "Obama is a fascist"?

Angel| 4.18.09 @ 4:58PM

We have done nothing to make you think we are fascists, TP/Jeremiah; therefore it would be unreasonable of you to think so. On the other hand, you liberal fascists have placed me on a terror watch list, so of course I don't trust your motives. It would be most unreasonable not to do so.

Francis Beckwith| 4.18.09 @ 5:47PM

Obama looked into Chavez's eyes and saw Putin's soul.

Mary| 4.18.09 @ 5:57PM

Taxation without hesitation? That's so-so, but this GOP rep (per Allahpundit) shows that the refrain "They’re about Obama, Obama, and nothing but Obama" is the furthest thing from the truth.

The Pol took it like a man, though.

These "parties" are not going away. And no matter how many people try to tell us that we're not enroute to a soft socialism first, and perhaps a hard one later, it's going to fall on deaf ears.

Nothing about this administration's attempt to resolve the problems we face has been considered as one would deliberate in a piecemeal and transparent fashion.

From the first stimulus bill to the debacle with the AIG bonuses, nothing. And when you have a president woofing that the only thing that stands between bankers and their safety is a brigade of mad-dash pitchforks, it's time to demand that adults run the Country.

Mary| 4.18.09 @ 6:00PM

Should read:

that his administration is the only thing that stands between bankers, their safety and a brigade of mad-dash pitchforks..

BD57| 4.18.09 @ 6:20PM

It's not a picture I particularly like, but as long as this isn't a meeting/photo op the President SOUGHT, I'll give him a pass.

Now, if he has Chavez over to the Big House ....

Tom Paine| 4.18.09 @ 6:38PM

BD57

You're a rare one. Most people around here take this photograph to be evidence that Obama is getting ready to turn American sovereignty over to the Venezuelans.

Angel --

Who told you you were on a terrorist watch list?

I think the paranoid fantasies have gone a little out of control among you people.

Get a grip on yourselves!

Angel| 4.18.09 @ 6:53PM

The same people who told the vets they were on it. People with pro-life bumper stickers on their car were included on the terror watch list. I wonder who the patriot is who outted this traitorous report? Thank God we still have some decent people left in this country. Gives ya hope.

BD57| 4.18.09 @ 7:28PM

Oh, Tom, I think that's overstated.

I suspect the President could have avoided this photo if he'd really wanted to.

When dealing with dictators - Chavez is building a police state, Tom, and it's pretty obvious - photo ops like this enhance their status. It just isn't a good idea.

All I'm doing is suspending judgment for now - don't have him over to the Big House.

tonypal| 4.18.09 @ 7:57PM

Tom Paine:

I don't see a whole lot of that on this site. Some, but not much.

I do believe that Obama, if you get right down to his core, is truly a statist. From everything I have seen since his inauguration, he seems to have little faith in the individual. He is also superb at creating straw men, enabling him to identify vitims and their so-called oppressors. This is a cynical strategy that he has perfected.

It is not name calling to correctly identify the way an individual governs. For example, much to my dismay, George Bush was a big government conservative, an oxymoron if there ever was one. He grew the government when he should have been reducing spending. Obama is committed to even larger and faster government growth. The difference is that Obama is a true believer, having come to the conclusion at some point in his life that individual citizens left to their own devices simply cannot be trusted. So Obama will make the decisions for them. Unfortunately, too many people have bought into this, willingly ceding decision making responsibility and ultimately certain freedoms to a man who promises to fix everything that is wrong. Again, very cynical, because he knows he can't do it. What he really seeks is power, which I think puts him safely in a class with a guy like Hugo Chavez.

Tom Paine| 4.18.09 @ 8:07PM

Hugo Chavez is a third rate little tyrant. He's also something of a psychopath, if you ask me.

Obama's predecessor did quite enough grandstanding for a little while. I think the USA will survive if our president exchanges small talk with the premiere of Venezuela.

Is Obama a statist?

I don't know. Some people believe that the income tax is a sign that we have a socialistic state: that would make Reagan a socialist along with Obama.

Obama inherited a terrific recession; he clearly believes (along with Nixon, Reagan, and both Bushes) that stimulating the economy by means of government spending is a good idea. The huge numbers reflect the depth of the recession.

If the economy recovers in two years, Obama will be a hero. If it doesn't, he'll be run out of office in '12.

I've never in my life seen a president with less margin for error. He can give all the pretty speeches he likes, but if the economy doesn't recover, it won't matter. All the while he's fighting TWO wars he had no part in starting, the last president having failed to bring them to conclusion.

The other day Obama gave a 50 minute speech on the economy that demonstrated exhaustive knowledge; he then gave another speech in which he addressed what he took to be the 5 main ideas being expressed at the "tea parties." He was respectful, and if anything deferential. He explained the reasons for the massive spending in plain English. His reasoning was sound and sober. You don't have to agree with him, but if you think this is how Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin did business, I'd hesitate to believe you have a firm grasp of history, my friend. Better brush up.

JP| 4.18.09 @ 8:46PM

Tom Paine (aka Jerimiah),
Obama's speech, on the whole, was very worrying to both his fans and opponents alike. His attempt to justify spending during his first 100 days what twice what Bush spent during his entire 8 years, was nonsensical. President Obama and the Dems spent $8 trillion dollars thus far by a combination of printing money, and borrowing against the future earnings (whatever that may be) of future earners. President Obama as eiter spent or pledges to spend $12 trillion.

danny| 4.18.09 @ 11:05PM

looked again. still no castro. damn, where's castro?

Basil Plumley| 4.18.09 @ 11:48PM

danny| 4.18.09 @ 11:05PM
looked again. still no castro. damn, where's castro?

Starring in Weekend At Bernie's III?

I couldn't resist.

Basil Plumley| 4.18.09 @ 11:58PM

Tom Paine

Indolent? You actually used the word 'indolent'?
My, my, aren't you the clever one or was that the word of the day on your daily calendar.

You said--The other day Obama gave a 50 minute speech on the economy that demonstrated exhaustive knowledge(you actually typed that?); he then gave another speech in which he addressed what he took to be the 5 main ideas being expressed at the "tea parties." He was respectful, and if anything deferential. He explained the reasons for the massive spending in plain English. His reasoning was sound and sober(unlike the person who initially posted this thought). You don't have to agree with him, but if you think this is how Adolph Hitler or Joseph Stalin did business, I'd hesitate to believe you have a firm grasp of history, my friend. Better brush up.

Actually, Obama's speech was warmed over Jimmy Carter. Cue George Santayana: Those who refuse to learn from History are damned to repeat it. Rinse, Repeat as often as necessary.

Angel| 4.19.09 @ 12:00AM

Weekend At Bernie's III---I wish. Dude's been around forever.

Angel| 4.19.09 @ 12:06AM

Basil, Tom Paine is Jeremiah. He gave himself away when he called us Comrades--no one calls us comrades except for that little twit--Jeremiah.

Sam H| 4.19.09 @ 1:25AM

Mr. Paine,

Mr. Obama is, in your words, "fighting two wars he had no part in starting, the last president failing to bring them to conclusion."

The world, and history, are sorry that wars do not come with expiration dates to your liking. They will both work on that at once so that wars are ended at a time and place that is suitable to you and do not have a longer duration than that with which you are comfortable.

As to your assertion that he did not start either, I agree. War has been waged by modern Muslims against the U.S. for the last thirty years. So, in that respect, I guess we can thank Qutb and Prince Wahibbi for "starting" them. But you had better buckle in Mr. Paine, for it is going to be a rather long, and at times bumpy, ride.

Mr. Obama is no more guilty of "starting" our present conflicts as I am. I will say that his political party's philosophy led to our finding ourselves unprepared, to this day still, to comprehend what we are fighting; a fanatical ideology that wants nothing less than our destruction or subjugation.

In the execrable New York Times today, on page A4, is our esteemed Secretary of State, Ms. Clinton, declaring that "ideology is so yesterday." On page A5 is a picture of an elderly, just-released-from-prison Pakistani Iman, surrounded by his bearded, wild-eyed and shouting followers and admirers.

I hope Ms. Clinton remembers to tell this man that ideology is "so yesterday."

ruth| 4.19.09 @ 1:30AM

I've just re-read TP/Jeremiah's first post and I think he called all of us racists in the last paragraph. Nice feint with tonypal, TP--you know we aren't terrorists (or maybe like J. Napolitano you don't) or lazy commies; but racists --now that's quite another matter, isn't it? Sly. C'mon, Mr. liberal oracle, please edify us with your perfect thought police omniscience. You must know what we are REALLY thinking. What an arrogant crapper you are, Jeremiah; what a weasel.

ruth| 4.19.09 @ 1:41AM

"Ideology is so yesterday?" What has happened to Hillary Clinton? I swear she lost her marbles during her 2008 election campaign. I hope to God burkhas remain so yesterday, too. Squirrelly.

Chips| 4.19.09 @ 8:07AM

O a statist? Who even knows what he thinks? His speechwriters don't care; they're more than satisfied that he reads his script more believably than did W. We've been under wily and efficient attack by the banksters for generations, via the two-party charade.

W queued us up; O takes us over the cliff.

Mary| 4.19.09 @ 9:54AM

Jeremiah,

Come clean. There is no possibility of effecting -on a one-on-one basis which is foundational- unity between brothers when you assume a new username after telling one of the authors here to go “____ _______.”

Go get yourself a 1952 or thereabouts Catechism and study the breakdown of what constitutes contravening the 8th Commandment. The breakdown is second to none, and very faithful to the Hebraic.

No self-righteous piggery here. After a long absence and entering into a confession booth I had to ask the priest, Father, are you there?

Apologize for your vulgarity or resume your original username, confess your new one and keep on keeping on. I think every once and a while, for flesh and blood, an expletive is demanded. Your vulgarity was against the person of the author because he dared to surmise that your ilk has a totalitarian bent. He didn’t call you a totalitarian, but you were offended. Your outburst showed your insecurity. So did another one of your outbursts: “none of you here can match me!” That wasn’t anything that caused a need for a new username, but the “go ____ ________” was.

What follows is not addressed to Jeremiah.

Read this, it should enflame your Christian blood in a way it probably has never been enflamed.

To appropriate the majestic Sermon On The Mount and to never utter Jesus’ name is an affront we should ponder in our hearts, and find someway, some national way, to counteract this. Some singular “tea-party,” without signs or pomp or protests. Just something heartfelt evoking and defending His Name, and the Christian heritage of this Country.

Somebody should call the Pope. It’s time for the Vicar to speak up and speak up plainly. This is worse than the Notre Dame fiasco. Much worse.

O/T but read this too http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/17/AR2009041702639.html?hpid=opinionsbox1 the “pitchman for LendingTree.com” is perfect.

Oh, and don‘t forget to vote!

Mary | 4.19.09 @ 10:03AM

I don't know why the links are dead, but here they are again. They worked when I tested them:

Here's the first link.

Here's the second.

And the last don't forget to vote one.

SiliconDoc| 4.19.09 @ 10:52AM

It's funny, look at the distorted faces on the two socialist dictators of the destruction of the American Way. I can see how they revile eachother for what filth they know the other is, the twisted double gyrating musculature in opposiotnal force in their faces.
I saw they had the ethnically cool drug hippie thumbfist upper power rebel handshake going before they switched to the lower traditional acceptable handshake.
Look at those bulging twisted features issuing the true inner feelings of disgust. They hate themselves and eachother for what they do, but show their love and support, their big game to the world.
As soon as it's convenient the disgusting putrid twisted distorted faces will toss the other under the bus, as the people rise up against them.
Same for Wright, same for the mentor career launcher Ayers, same for all those at the heart on the collective and communism - when their sick hole of death and decay is exposed beyond the lies needed to make public repair plausible, under the bus they go.
Just as Bella Dodd was tossed - no different.
Must be a horrific existence, with that sick mentality of death and destruction just below the surface, covered with the words of tree hugging, peace, and the proletariat. It is disgusting, let the twisted facial expressions be seen and noticed, often.

WendyG| 4.19.09 @ 10:56AM

Hey, Chavez is a step UP from Obama's other cronies, Ayers and Wright. At least Chavez is a foreigner who hates America, rather than a homegrown America-hater.

ttyler5| 4.19.09 @ 12:05PM

Well, what else would you expect from this clown?

WendyG| 4.19.09 @ 12:20PM

I wonder if all this is as much a function of HIS need to be fawned over, as it is his need to fawn over others, fascists included. Probably a combination of both. He's an epic egotist - unlike Bush, who had the confidence not to care who loved him.

jharp| 4.19.09 @ 1:13PM

You have got to be kidding.

Is this all you've got?

jharp| 4.19.09 @ 1:15PM

You have got to be kidding.

You guys are in are in a world of hurt if this is the best you've got.

texastory| 4.19.09 @ 2:01PM

Chavez is a democratically elected leader. And like gay-marriage, he isn't hurting anyone. Leave 'em alone.

Michele San Pietro| 4.19.09 @ 2:03PM

Wake up and smell the coffee, Mr. Obama! Tyrants like Castro, Chavez or Adhmadinejad just don't give a damn about having better relations with the United States. They just want to destroy it and destroy freedom. Wake up and smell the coffee, Mr. Obama! Do it at least for the millions of people who suffer under those murderous regimes.

jharp| 4.19.09 @ 2:03PM

There is nothing wrong with this. Soon we will be talking to Iran, and we can finally squash Israel. I look forward to our summit with North Korea. Soon I will be able to visit Cuba and our friend Fidel.

WendyG| 4.19.09 @ 2:26PM

>>jharp| 4.19.09 @ 2:03PM
Soon we will be talking to Iran, and we can finally squash Israel.

Ah, the truth finally comes out!

WendyG| 4.19.09 @ 2:29PM

>>>Soon I will be able to visit Cuba and our friend Fidel.

Yeah, Castro, who throws gay people in jail.

Homophobe.

WendyG| 4.19.09 @ 3:03PM

>>>Chavez is a democratically elected leader.

Laughable!

Jumpin' Jimm-e Carter| 4.19.09 @ 3:19PM

Chavez is a democratically elected leader.

Smitty| 4.19.09 @ 3:29PM

If you think we have ACORN here, I can just imagine Chavez's ACORN there. Rent a Mob deluxe.

Tom Paine| 4.19.09 @ 3:58PM

As incredible as it is to believe, Chavez WAS elected democratically.

As Americans we (rightly) idealize democracy; however, other countries don't always elect the leaders we would prefer.

It would have been merely petulant for Obama to snub Chavez. Instead, he declined a private meeting (appropriately), but spoke with him while he was among the group gathered for a general meeting.

It is extremely cynical and jaundiced to see this for anything other than what it was: routine statesmanship. This is nothing to get Obama written into the history book; it's just the normal thing a president does abroad.

You "conservatives" are running out of rhetorical space; having accused Obama of being a "fascist," a "Nazi," a "communist," and so on, who will listen to any particular criticism you have of him? Extremism undermines itself.

CH| 4.19.09 @ 5:24PM

You're right, TP--extremism does undermine itself--Obama's own extremism will be his downfall.

Lynne| 4.19.09 @ 5:28PM

Nothing new here--same old Latin American rants against the USA. Obama's presence made no difference.

WendyG| 4.19.09 @ 5:31PM

>>>> Extremism undermines itself.

I am counting on that. Because then Obama won't be reelected in 4 years. :)

BD57| 4.19.09 @ 6:40PM

Tom:

I really hate doing it because someone will have a fit - - - but Chavez being "democratically elected" doesn't make him any less of a scoundrel ... after all, that German Chancellor guy was 'democratically elected' too. It's what happens AFTER the election that matters.

(note for those who are now throwing a fit - the point is "winning an election does not legitimize everything that follows", not "Chavez = German Chancellor Guy"; thus far, I agree he's a tinhorn despot, albeit one who seems to have a desire to cause us as much trouble as he can).

While this is predictable, I don't care for it:

"But Obama defended his handshakes and brief chats with Chavez when asked about the notion pushed by Obama's opponents during the campaign that his willingness to talk to enemies of the U.S. was a "sign of weakness."

"The American people didn't buy it," Obama said of the campaign criticisms. "And there's a reason that the American people didn't buy it. Because it doesn't make sense."

What bothers me is I think the President believes the BS he's peddling here.

We don't have problems with Chavez because we aren't talking and our problems with Chavez aren't "just a big misunderstanding."

Chavez and the United States understand each other just fine. We have problems with Chavez because he's hostile to us by choice.

For relations to improve, one of two things has to happen - Chavez changes or we make concessions. Yakking it up isn't going to bring about the former and we're better off without the latter.

Yakking for the sake of yakking is a waste of valuable resources.

TomPaineIsAFascistStooge| 4.19.09 @ 8:14PM

Tom Paine| 4.18.09 @ 2:08PM

Obama refused a private meeting with Chavez. However, it would have been absurd and stupid of him simply to snub a democratically elected head of state in a forum like this. Obama found the appropriate response to a weird and unfortunate situtation.

Chavez is a dictator. Hitler was elected too. Both are cold blooded murderers and tyrants though on a different scale. How dare you applaud Obama meeting him. Traitor.

MattSwartz| 4.19.09 @ 8:22PM

I have a lot of problems with Obama, but this isn't one of them. I don't see how this is any different from Nixon going to China, except that Chavez is somewhat less offensive than the Chinese Premier was, at least as far as ruthless killing goes.

I don't trust Obama to be an honest dealer domestically or internationally, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to criticize him for doing something that's relatively normal.

Bill Bailey| 4.19.09 @ 8:26PM

There is nothing normal about an American president meeting a socialist tyrant who would destroy America and who allows Islamic terrorist groups to operate in his country.

Tom Paine| 4.19.09 @ 9:28PM

Naturally, several of you are posting about Hitler. The miracle is I'm not being compared to Hitler and as far as I can tell only one of you is comparing Obama to Hitler.

Maybe we're making some progress.

Chavez is -- let's not beat around the bush, as it were -- not a democratic leader. He was democratically elected, but he does not govern democratically. He's not a good guy. I don't like him, you don't like him, and I have news for you: Obama doesn't like him.

Presidents do this all the time. Bush flew all over the world meeting dictators, talking with them, holding hands, gazing into their eyes and seeing their souls. Presidents do this.

Sorry, guys. I know once the paranoia gets going it's very difficult to curb -- but you're not even close here.

If you don't believe me, believe Matt Schwartz; it doesn't appear he's your everyday bleeding heart liberal, and he agrees this is no big deal.

Tom Paine| 4.19.09 @ 9:32PM

BD57 --

You make some very sound points. I don't mean to imply that Obama is above criticism on his overall policy towards Chavez.

But that's a policy debate. (Heaven forfend!) If you want to criticize Obama's speech or his perhaps vague or squishy view of Chavez, have at him. I think it's an issue for concern. But jumping up and shouting "Bolshevicki!" because Obama didn't refuse the man's handshake is a bit much.

ruth| 4.19.09 @ 9:57PM

What a coincidence that 'MattSchwartz' just happens to pop up when TP/Jeremiah needs a shot in the arm--freak. Jeremiah, you're the only weirdo who would say 'Heaven forfend': Where do you find these bizarre sayings? Jumping up and shouting "Bolshevicki!"?? Thanks, your corny little jokes make it easier to endure your fascist liberal boiler plate language--because I'm laughing AT you.

Bill Bailey| 4.20.09 @ 12:42AM

Heaven forfend, ruth, are you suggesting that a troll circle jerk is taking place right here on the humble cyber pages of TAS? Perhaps one of them dialed 1-800-LEFT-TROLL.

ttyler5| 4.20.09 @ 7:49AM

Smitty,

" If you think we have ACORN here, I can just imagine Chavez's ACORN there. Rent a Mob deluxe."

The Latino actress Maria Conchito Alonso

--- who recently blasted that pea-brained moron, Sean Penn, for supporting Chavez

is doing a documentary showing, among other things, how Chavez buys himself a crowd for demonstrations.

Here is a link to the left-leaning UK Independent covering Alonso's criticism of Penn which makes an excellent observation:

'Shut up about Chavez the killer' Venezuelan co-star tells Sean Penn"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/shut-up-about-chavez-the-killer-venezuelan-costar-tells-sean-penn-1639783.html

And check out this supportive response for Alonso from a US liberal democrat in the comments:
http://news.independentminds.livejournal.com/1190593.html?thread=5333697#t5333697

Tim| 4.20.09 @ 9:36AM

Was this a meeting? I hate to sound stupid but what was the context? Yes, I would prefer to see Obama giving him a Moe Howard eyepoke...

MattSwartz| 4.20.09 @ 10:04AM

ruth,

Do you actually read anything that I write? I am my own man, I'm probably more conservative than 75% of you, and I'm not getting paid one red cent.

I oppose the Obama economic plan, I'm pro-life, pro-gun, and pro-family. It is simply baffling that you think I'm a sock puppet just because I don't toe the party line and get acceptably outraged at Obama for doing what US Presidents always do in re: meeting foreign leaders.

http://www.esem.sk/visit-bratislava/img/bush-putin.jpg

https://segue.middlebury.edu/repository/viewfile/polyphony-repository___repository_id/edu.middlebury.segue.sites_repository/polyphony-repository___asset_id/1771818/polyphony-repository___record_id/1771819/polyphony-repository___file_name/nixon-china-visit_0.jpg

http://pastorsteveweaver.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/reagan-gorbachev.jpg

MattSwartz| 4.20.09 @ 10:10AM

If you're keeping score at home, each of those scoundrels who met with former US Presidents killed more people than Chavez, with the possible exception of Putin, who inherited a populace so subdued that he scarcely has any freedom fighters to harass.

MattSwartz| 4.20.09 @ 10:12AM

Look, guys, I'm sorry that you have paid liberal trolls messing with your boards, I really am.

But that's not going to keep me from showing up and owning you with genuine conservatism, no matter what accusations you throw my way.

BD57| 4.20.09 @ 10:16AM

Tom:

straw man - I didn't say anything about the President's economic philosophy.

second straw man - noting the comparisons to the German Chancellor. Those comparisons are invited by asserting that Chavez coming to power via election is relevant to our policy vis a vis his government. In his case, it isn't.

I would like the Presidential Apology & Groveling Tour to come to an end.

Tom Paine| 4.20.09 @ 10:53AM

BD 57

I what ways did the president "apologize" or "grovel"?

I know Sean Hannity ripped a clause from a sentence in which Obama admitted to American "arrogance" (naturally, Hannity deleted the next clause -- which completed the sentence -- in which Obama chided Europeans for anti-Americanism). He also acknowledged America's special economic gravity, the fact that when American banks fail as the result of incompetence or greed people suffer all over the world. That's pretty evenhanded stuff. But if you have some quotations you'd like to share, and are in the mood for being something other than Hannity's water boy, I'd love to hear what you have to say.

I didn't use any straw men. I was distinguishing what I thought to be your substantive post (substantive, but off the topic of the thread) from what I took to be the goofy paranoia of the initial posting and some of the other comments.

Zwingli the Miffed| 4.20.09 @ 12:38PM

1. Oh NOOZE, a handshake. I thought that 8 years of our mighty disapproval of Chavez would have caused him to flee Caracas with his tail between his legs. Oh, you mean that our bluster about him merely entrenched him in power? Huh.

2. To the other poster that somehow equates the Iraq War as somehow part and parcel with the AQ/Radical Islamacist strife of the last three decades, what universe do you live in? Iraq had nothing to do with either 9/11 or AQ, but the previous Administration consistently invoked them as being one in the same. The reality is that we consciously chose to invade a country that hadn't actually attacked us on 9/11

3. By the way, with the utter collapse in world oil prices, Chavez really has less room to maneuver in his own country with his own spending programs. Instead of blustering and threatening them with invasion or war or stern glances, we could just wait them out the way we did the old USSR when their economy began to crater for the last time.

ruth| 4.20.09 @ 3:00PM

Just checking, Matt--you never know. Here's a novel thought--why don't you try to own the liberal troll with your 'True Conservatism'. Thanks.

MattSwartz| 4.20.09 @ 10:18PM

Ruth,
My thing is to be as much of a contrarian as possible while still holding to my beliefs. Here, that means picking on the group rather than on it's dissenter (jharp or whatshisname), especially since other folks seem to have that handled.

When I go to lefty blogs I do the same thing, although it fails if they don't grasp sarcasm, so who knows?

ruth| 4.21.09 @ 4:04PM

I understand, Matt--I have many contrarians in my life. It's just that you never know who's the liberal troll.

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