The American Spectator

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 6:58PM

Jeffrey Lord,

"since Monsieurs Frank and Cuomo are demanding names of those taking bonuses from taxpayers perhaps its time to revive the subject. "

Are you truly that much of a moron that you can't see the difference between PBS and AIG?

God help our country if we have imbeciles such as yourself being taken as serious journalists.

Unbelievable.

SSN| 3.19.09 @ 7:07PM

Moyers is another disgusting liberal sleazoid. Hypocrite!

Jeremiah| 3.19.09 @ 8:28PM

Mr Lord --

This story seems a little weak. I've said it before: 9 times out of 10, when a conservative is complaining about the big bad liberal media, he ends up sounding either petulant or wimpy. That's not exactly the case here: you have interesting facts and observations, and I suppose a point. But PBS? Do you really think PBS is what is wrong with America?

I read now where the House just passed some absurd tax on these bonuses. Democrats and Republicans in DC are showing astonishing lack of foresight and terrible leadership -- and I'd include the president in this too. A hundred million in bonuses is just no big deal, nor are the donations AIG made to anyone. The fact is this company dragged down the PLANET'S economy, and unless the government asks fast and does it right, we're not going to get out of this recession for a long time. And yes, government action is necessary.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 8:51PM

jharp...

In fact, what I see is the sanctity of contract being violated, not to mention the Constitutional no-no on a bill of attainder. We should never be in the business of saying that principles only apply to those on my side. Per Chris Dodd, these bonuses were put in the bill at the specific request of the Obama administration. They were concerned about the rights involved in making contracts...as well they should be. The notion that 1) because you don't like a contract you agreed with after the fact and it should now be violated because it's unpopular leads to - 2) - the psychology of a lynch mob. If Bill Moyers' contract was agreed to by PBS or CPB and is not to be public, (a bad decision for any taxpayer dollars) well, it sounds to me like Mr. Moyers has a contract. But what's being pushed here is the notion that because X group is unpopular (AIG) they get to have their constitutional rights trashed to please the mob. Very, very bad idea. Eventually you will be the target. And your friends and your family and your neighbors. If a business fails, they fail. No bailouts. But we are going in another direction entirely...so therefore Mr. Moyers and everyone else at a taxpayer funded entity (like, say, Fannie Mae, included in this bill) are fair game. This is bad stuff and a lot of people will regret the huge opening provided critics.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 8:53PM

Jlib...

Ahhh...We are in this situation because the government forced banks to make loans to millions who were not credit worthy. Now the government is trying to run AIG. It cannot help itself from screwing up, and, quite vividly at this moment, has just done so again.

Angel| 3.19.09 @ 9:10PM

Liberals have one set of rules for themselves, and quite another for everyone else. Guess who always comes out on top? Narcissists.

Jim| 3.19.09 @ 9:20PM

jharp,
God help our country if we have moron such as yourself being taken as informed citizens and voters.

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 9:29PM

"Ahhh...We are in this situation because the government forced banks to make loans to millions who were not credit worthy. "

More complete BS. Utter nonsense.

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 9:37PM

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 8:51PM

"In fact, what I see is the sanctity of contract being violated"

Oh, I see. Kinda like the automakers trying to renegotiate the UAW's contract after they ran into trouble. Saw a lot of wingnut outrage over that one.

Are you so dense to not understand that Bill Moyers and PBS did not conduct business in a way that imperiled the world economy?

"But what's being pushed here is the notion that because X group is unpopular "

And this line is the topper. Unpopular? Surely you jest. They've just about ruined the world economy and taken $180 billion in taxpayer dollars. And you think no strings should be attached.

You are nothing but a right wing hack. And a damn dumb one.

CH| 3.19.09 @ 9:43PM

Lord, don't bother--this troll is a real stupido. IQ of 50--maybe.

Heather| 3.19.09 @ 9:46PM

Jim, this nasty liberal moron is the face of the dummocrat party. These creeps mean business--just look at their ACORN Brown Shirts.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 9:52PM

As the saying goes, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Not, however, to their own facts. And by the way, the union contract point is precisely the point.

"Oh, I see. Kinda like the automakers trying to renegotiate the UAW's contract after they ran into trouble. "

Exactly not. If the unions agree...get that word agree...to renegotiate, that's their call. The government, however, has no right to tax their benefits away to punish them. Even Jharp stumbles on a correct principle!

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 9:54PM

CH..

I know, I know. But a mind is a terrible thing to waste. :)

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 9:55PM

CH and Heather,

Nice to see you totally avoid the issues and throw out a baseless insult to confirm that you've got nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Not a word to defend Mr. Lord's stupidity.

You have learned well from Hannity, Limbaugh, and Fox News.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 10:01PM

jharp...

After you have read up on the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 and the push by the Clinton administration's Fannie Mae buds to give..."millions of people" (that's a direct quote from the New York Times) loans they couldn't afford, and understand why that caused the economy to implode, come back. Until then, you apparently, for whatever reason, have chosen to close your eyes or are unable to get it. The government caused this. Go check YouTube and see all those clips of Barney Frank etc saying everything was just ducky and no regulation was needed. Sorry, friend. Do the research.

Heather| 3.19.09 @ 10:16PM

He's pretty stupid, but JHarp probably knows the truth behind the economic meltdown. He's just another liberal liar: Their numbers are legion.

Jeremiah| 3.19.09 @ 10:48PM

The new idea that the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 -- 1977! -- is the cause of all our economic woes just doesn't make any sense to me.

If it was so bad, and if it's the sort of thing conservatives would protect us from, why didn't Ronald Reagan, George H W Bush, or George W Bush do anything about it?

As with any massive systemic economic failure, the causes of our current mess are complex: many people bought homes that couldn't afford them. No question.

Maybe one question we MIGHT ask (if it didn't mean we were socialists to ask) is WHY hardworking people with two full time incomes need bad, risky loans to own a house in the United States of America. Could it be that stagnant wages of anything to do with this?

But there are other causes too, including the fact that the Masters of the Universe -- those who control the Invisible Hand of the Market in whom you all put so much faith -- really screwed up. They over-leveraged loans six ways to Friday, and the lack of responsible oversight (beginning in the Clinton administration and continuing in W's) let them get away with utterly crazy business practices.

I know all of this is not as fun and sexy as blaming our 21st century recession on Jimmy Carter, but so it goes.

ConservativeWanderer| 3.19.09 @ 11:04PM

My, my, my, look at the lefty trolls coming to the defense of PBS and Moyers.

Somehow, I can't see them doing the same for Fox and, say, Shepard Smith.

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 11:17PM

"After you have read up on the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 and the push by the Clinton administration's Fannie Mae buds to give"

I'm well aware of the details of the Community Reinvestment Act and Fannie Mae. And they dwarf what AIG has done under the leadership of George Bush. Do the math jackass.

Tell me again what the Republican Congress since 1994 and George Bush since 2001 did to correct what you say is to blame for our woes.

You're an idiot. It's always the poor peoples fault, right? And the the illegals aliens, Muslims, non Christians, and homosexuals. And the unions.

Heather| 3.19.09 @ 11:17PM

Obama owns this mess, too bad he's too incompetent to handle it.

Daphne| 3.19.09 @ 11:20PM

No, it's all you rich white liberals' fault. You morons are the real traitors. But, that's okay--repubs and demos are tied in generic polling--first time in three years! We gonna beat your butts in 2010. Can't wait!!

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 11:22PM

Jlib...

No one I know of says the free market is "perfect" in the sense that no mistakes are made. They are, all the time, because people make bad choices. The difference...the "perfection" if you will... is that if you screw up in the marketplace you lose...your job, your company ...whatever. The Community Reinvestment idea was ramped up big time in the Clinton era. Bush did in fact try and get it better regulated. Again, go over to You Tube and watch those House Dems pilloring Bushies as being alarmists or, worse, racists etc for demanding that this kind of thing stop. Barney Frank saying he wanted to "roll the dice" with Fannie Mae backing all these loans. I have no problem with AIG going under. They screwed up. They should not be bailed out with your money or mine. And the fact that they are getting these bonuses is a direct result of the push by Obama to have the stimulus bill, with these provisions included at Geithner's insistence, passed ASAP so people couldn't do due diligence. Now they have the gall to point fingers at this poor guy brought in out of retirement from running another company the right way, and who had zero to do with any of this, and blame him! Now that takes brass! The free market...the invisible hand...demands that there be consequences for bad economic behavior. Bailouts...and yes I think W made a mistake getting this ball rolling....are absolutely nuts. Now the government is literally dropping millions in rewards for...failure. This is nuts! Remember, the culprit here is not Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush or Obama. The culprit is the idea that government can or should do this stuff. It can't, as this AIG mess demonstrates for the umpteeth time. Chris Dodd has zero ability to do this. Ditto Frank, Pelosi etc. As they all have just shown.

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 11:26PM

ConservativeWanderer| 3.19.09 @ 11:04PM

"My, my, my, look at the lefty trolls coming to the defense of PBS and Moyers.

Somehow, I can't see them doing the same for Fox and, say, Shepard Smith."

Another conservative moron chimes in with more utter nonsense.

The point here, clueless one, is the PBS and Bill Moyers comparison to AIG is ludicrous.

Though I do agree with you that Fox News is indefensible.

I honestly and truly cannot believe the utter stupidity of what I see conservatives put into print. But I guess when your mouthpiece's are Limbaugh and Hannity, who profit immensely from your ignorance, I shouldn't be surprised.

By all means go for it. Buy some of the credit repair, credit card debt relief, and identity theft protection scams that the druggie Rush profits from.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 11:28PM

Jharp...

You and Obama are the ones arguing for giving government money to bailout AIG. I say let it fail. No money from you or me. Period. You have a class envy thing going. I believe everyone should have opportunity, you believe in government trickle down. Which, as repeatedly demonstrated in history, never works. You do the math. Again, you cannot force banks to give millions of people loans that they cannot afford. Government did this. Now you are coming to us and saying these bozos should be bailed. Sorry. No good.

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 11:32PM

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 11:22PM

Where did you go to school son? My 16 year daughter has better composition skills than you. Honest to God, did you pass Freshman English?

Write something coherent and I'd be happy to respond.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 11:37PM

Jharp...

Uhhhhhhh...gee. This is the Internet. Quick. Fast. Make the point. We're not writing memos to the President here. I genuinely don't get your problem. You spend your time name-calling ("moron" "clueless") citing zero facts and believe this to be a good example for kids? Snap out of it!

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 11:39PM

"You and Obama are the ones arguing for giving government money to bailout AIG. I say let it fail."

And you are an uneducated fool. I detest the bailout as much as everyone else.We have no choice. The federal funds rate is zero. AIG shareholders have been wiped out. We're talking about the world banking system, the system that AIG insured, failing. Even your hero George Bush agreed.

Where'd you go to school son? Bob Jones? Liberty?

Seriously, you and the morons who buy into your BS have nearly destroyed our country.

Go get yourself an education.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 11:42PM

Son...Franklin and Marshall College. Founded 1787. Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Professors went Harvard, Princeton etc etc etc. And you? What is the name-calling bit all the time? Do you teach your 16 year old this kind of stuff?

jharp| 3.19.09 @ 11:44PM

Jeffrey Lord

You post this.

"Jlib...

No one I know of says the free market is "perfect" in the sense that no mistakes are made. They are, all the time, because people make bad choices. The difference...the "perfection" if you will... is that if you screw up in the marketplace you lose...your job, your company ...whatever. The Community Reinvestment idea was ramped up big time in the Clinton era. Bush did in fact try and get it better regulated. Again, go over to You Tube and watch those House Dems pilloring Bushies as being alarmists or, worse, racists etc for demanding that this kind of thing stop. Barney Frank saying he wanted to "roll the dice" with Fannie Mae backing all these loans. I have no problem with AIG going under. They screwed up. They should not be bailed out with your money or mine. And the fact that they are getting these bonuses is a direct result of the push by Obama to have the stimulus bill, with these provisions included at Geithner's insistence, passed ASAP so people couldn't do due diligence. Now they have the gall to point fingers at this poor guy brought in out of retirement from running another company the right way, and who had zero to do with any of this, and blame him! Now that takes brass! The free market...the invisible hand...demands that there be consequences for bad economic behavior. Bailouts...and yes I think W made a mistake getting this ball rolling....are absolutely nuts. Now the government is literally dropping millions in rewards for...failure. This is nuts! Remember, the culprit here is not Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush or Obama. The culprit is the idea that government can or should do this stuff. It can't, as this AIG mess demonstrates for the umpteeth time. Chris Dodd has zero ability to do this. Ditto Frank, Pelosi etc. As they all have just shown."

And follow it up with this.

"This is the Internet. Quick. Fast. Make the point."

You have got to smoking dope. There is no other explanation. I don't think you could possibly be that out of touch.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 11:50PM

Again....what is your point?I have gone back and read the material, generally the accepted way to research. I'm trying to answer questions quickly...without the Obama teleprompter to give me the answers. Again....we are where we are because of government policy. And Fannie mae..specifically Franklin Raines...made off with about $90 million after doing all this damage. The fact that you ignore all this is stunning.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 11:50PM

Again....what is your point?I have gone back and read the material, generally the accepted way to research. I'm trying to answer questions quickly...without the Obama teleprompter to give me the answers. Again....we are where we are because of government policy. And Fannie mae..specifically Franklin Raines...made off with about $90 million after doing all this damage. The fact that you ignore all this is stunning.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.19.09 @ 11:57PM

Jharp...

Here...read this if you're willing to make the time. There's tons out there but this will get you started.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/what_really_happened_in_the_mo.html

jharp| 3.20.09 @ 12:02AM

"Again....we are where we are because of government policy"

Yeah we are. Bddfadfjdafljut I might add poor misguided government policy.

vvvdaieorueaorueaoirue

We seemed to have done pretty well since about 1945.

Could it... could it be conservatism is the problem?

Starry Night| 3.20.09 @ 12:04AM

Mr. Lord, you crack me up! Harpy is the dumbest liberal troll at AmSpec, and you choose to waste your time arguing with him. Don't you have something better to do--like take out the garbage or clean up after the dog? I'm sure those chores would be more pleasurable; certainly more fruitful. Anyway, hope the rest of your evening is restful.

SSN| 3.20.09 @ 12:05AM

No, fool; your marxism is the problem.

jharp| 3.20.09 @ 12:20AM

Jeffrey,

I went and read your American Thinker link.

And the fact that you could possibly take it seriously is mind boggling.

You seem to be a decent enough person and I wish you no ill will. Peace and good health to you and your family.

But your vision of somehow PBS and Bill Moyer being comparable to AIG is absurd. And you know it.

And your follow up comments were equally as absurd.

Face the facts. We've just been through the most disastrous Presidency in U.S. history. And we all all paying a terrible price for it. And it has conservatism and GOP written all over it.

Give it some serious thought.

Basil Plumley| 3.20.09 @ 12:42AM

Mr. Lord

Praytell, what is it with some of these nitwits?
You give them ideas and they rebut you with a false premise. You give them facts and they are rejected without so much as a proper rebuttal. You try to use logic and they counter with raw emotion.
I rather enjoy the arguments these nitwits use as their "A" game. When all else fails they resort to education (how original), epithets (how course), and by all means throw in the 16 year old daughter for the virginal sacrifice (maybe/maybe not ...... inquiring minds do NOT want to know).

Yet through it all, I have to admire their lack of reading comprehension. Yesterday, someone asked why Homeland Security was looking out for Ron Paul supporters. The response was classic; because of Tim McVeigh.
To date, the nitwit has not explained the connection of Tim McVeigh and Ron Paul.

It appears Abraham Lincoln was right when he said:

How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?/ Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.

Of course, the nitwit still tries.

stu.b.con| 3.20.09 @ 7:54AM

This thread is no different than the cap & trade discussion from Thursday; filibustering libs regurgitating the talking points fed to them in their echo chamber. Facts do not matter and no matter how much actual scientific, empirical, or physical data one brings to the discussion it gets shouted down, ridiculed, or just plain ignored.
I really enjoy AmSpec and the forum, however in the future I intend to ignore and not respond to the jeremiah's, interloper's et. al. in hopes that they will lose interest go back to the sand box at kos or huffpo or some such.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.20.09 @ 9:20AM

Jharp...

What's absurd with Thinker piece? A basic tick-tock. Published on the front page of Investors Business Daily, a decidedus paper. A specific set of facts found in lots of other places, including, I might add, The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. My point with PBS is principle. This is a very bad idea...and it matters not whether its AIG or PBS....or you.

Starry...

I know, I know. But if people are going to come and comment, I should at least give them the courtesy of facing the music a bit, no? :)

JeffreyLord| 3.20.09 @ 9:37AM

Basil...

Bingo!

tonypal| 3.20.09 @ 9:56AM

Jeffrey Lord:

Stop wasting your time with jharp. Why bother engaging someone whose intellectual and emotional growth ceased in grammar school. Much like you, I enjoy a lively debate and really love when I can go at it with someone on the other side of the political spectrum. But my personal policy is to cease the discussion once the name calling begins. I suggest you do the same.

punkdolphin21| 3.20.09 @ 10:06AM

Jharp can't resist impugning those he disagrees with. The point? To shut up those that don't drink the water. I agree with tonypal. Responding to him is a waste. And Obama is looking more clueless than Bush, but will never be called on it.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.20.09 @ 10:25AM

tonypal and punkdolphin21...

Thanks...

My time, as with yours, isn't unlimited and the time comes to move on. Your wisdom is noted. I do like to see on occasion if we can coax our opposites out of the name-calling morass and do policy. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Onward!

Bill| 3.20.09 @ 10:28AM

Jharp, You probably think it was a cospiracy that Ted "the swimmer" Kennedy is a murderer.
He is one of YOUR beacons of light, you poor misguided soul.

Marc Jeric| 3.20.09 @ 11:59AM

This fellow Jharp likes name calling. PBS is funded by taxpayers just like AIG, and I would like to know how much is that socialist and revolutionary marxist Bill Moyer is costing me. I am by the way a real liberal, what they call a rightwinger; Jharp seems to be a socialist just like Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini - well, they all had "socialist" in their parties names.

roger| 3.20.09 @ 1:26PM

you guys really don't do your research. the vast majority of funding for moyers comes from viewers and from private donations; not from the cpb.

mediamensch| 3.20.09 @ 1:57PM

Bill Moyers is my personal hero and is the last of his kind. Frankly I wish we could clone him. He should get paid whatever the hell he asks for, considering how he always tells it like it is. Did you know he's been trying to retire for like the last ten years? Let's pay him more money and keep him on the air until the next generation of real journalists can rise to the occasion!

Teleprompter Messiah| 3.20.09 @ 2:06PM

Mr. Lord: Trying to reason with jharp is a fruitless exercise. Its like showing a watch to a hog. He is just an Axelrod Astroturfer who repeats the talking points of those who do his thinking for him.

The lickspittle digital Brownshirts of the Left are "scorched earth" partisans who have demonized their opponents for the last eight years. They cannot now understand why we just don't get along. They can't understand that if you call down the thunder, you better expect it.

That's why they also can't understand that their guys are setting a dangerous precedent that lowers a threshold of acceptable use of power and authority. But restraint and soberness are not their strong suits, invective and sanctimony are their coin.

Di in France| 3.22.09 @ 8:04PM

From Moyers Website:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/about/faq.html#funding

FUNDING

Is BILL MOYERS JOURNAL funded by taxpayer money?

Bill Moyers raised all the money to produce "Buying the War" and BILL MOYERS JOURNAL from the funders listed in the opening and close of the broadcasts. Neither CPB nor PBS contributed to these productions