The American Spectator

ruth| 2.26.09 @ 5:48PM

I've always liked Pence; seems like a no-nonsense kind of guy. We need more clear thinkers like him. I'm glad to hear some good news for a change.

Cahnman| 2.26.09 @ 7:34PM

Here's an idea: there a Senate race in Indiana in 2010 for a seat currently held by a Democrat.

Why doesn't Pence run for that?

Ran| 2.26.09 @ 8:13PM

Amen, Ruth.

Quin: Thanks, so Pence wowed 'em with his two-cents worth? Heh. How a bout getting the Congressman to "guest post" an article here now and then? Would he post his speech here? How about inviting Gov's Jindal and Palin and any other Conservative rising star, too?

I say this because Reagan did a lot of letter-writing during his career. It was instrumental in forming the clarity he gained as a politician. Surely TAS readers would welcome the opportunity to provide direct responses. Would certainly drive some grass-roots traffic here.

Perhaps, take it a step further: Is there a net benefit to Conservative candidates who work at by-passing the likes of Couric and Matthews by using alternative media such as Spectator.org? The 2012 race is already on.

Jon | 2.26.09 @ 8:45PM

"If there ever were a House member who, Jack Kemp-like, could seriously consider running directly for president with no higher office in between (not that it worked for Kemp), it is Mike Pence of Indiana. "

Yeah, that's what the GOP needs, another nominee who is soft on illegal immigration. Pence's "touchback" fraud is an insult to the intelligence of everyone who cares about border security.

ruth| 2.26.09 @ 8:49PM

Great idea, Ran. I love it. We need more communication among conservatives, perhaps it would help us coalesce faster. I would love to get to know Pence, Palin, Jindal, etc., before the mania of the election season. Brilliant.

ruth| 2.26.09 @ 8:54PM

Our candidates are going to have to understand what's important to us. I'm sick of everybody going off the reservation--border security is paramount. Can't believe I have to say that.

Vanessa| 2.26.09 @ 9:25PM

Yay for my congressman!! He has an incredible support base and deeply rooted principles and integrity.

tanarg| 2.27.09 @ 7:20AM

Yes, he'd make a great president! Pence/Palin in 2012.

Michael Dooley| 2.27.09 @ 8:25AM

"Yeah, that's what the GOP needs, another nominee who is soft on illegal immigration".

To put it politely, what in the Sam Hill is Jon talking about? Pence's has been consistently strong on cracking down on illegal immigration--in spite of repeated warnings from RINOs and his "concerned for his own good" enemies that his stand threaten to cast him and the state of Indiana into the outer darkness. Not incidentally, with the growing Latin population across Indiana, "those in the know" in Hoosier politics warn that Pence's stance will damage the Republican Party for decades to come.

Of course, "Jon" could be one of the cave dwellers who run around in herds in the People's Republic of Bloomington--home of Indiana University. They long have a reputation for mixing the local moonshine with showing off their Star Wars action figure collections to attract hot and shapely Co-Ed’s.

jharp| 2.27.09 @ 10:34AM

"Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) told reporters that Shorja — where a suicide bomber killed 88 people in January — is now “like a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime.”"

"they sealed off the area, put themselves in flak jackets and walked in the middle of tens of armed American soldiers.” (to accomplish their visit)

A day after the congressional delegation’s visit, the “crack of shots fired by unseen snipers echoed” throughout the Shorja market."

Figures you'd find another wingnut hero in Pence. He is an excellent liar, obfuscates, and misleads just like the rest of the GOPers.

What's the matter? Did you finally realize Jindal is a fake. And Palin also an ignorant fake?

I think it's time to throw your support to Joe The Plumber.

Jon| 2.27.09 @ 10:43AM

Micheal Fooley- apparently you are one of those gullible and foolish individuals who believe a politician's rhetoric without reading the details of their plans. Pence's "touchback" scheme, which he's described as the "middle ground" on immigration "reform", is a very thinly disguised amnesty, which has been embraced by Republican amnesty supporters and condemned by Numbers USA:

WASHINGTON, DC – NumbersUSA today condemned the Hutchison-Pence plan for amnesty based on national origin, virtually unlimited foreign workers, and a path to citizenship for those who have broken our laws.

“The Hutchison-Pence proposal caters primarily to the big business and cheap-labor lobbies as it would allow importing unlimited workers under indentured servitude-like conditions,” said NumbersUSA Executive Director Roy Beck. “This bill should be called the ‘Chamber of Commerce Bill’ since its members and cheap-labor allies are the real beneficiaries of this legislation.”

The plan, which has yet to be formally introduced as a bill, contains no penalties for those who are currently breaking our laws either by their illegal presence in the United States or by employing illegal aliens. Instead, it grants amnesty to most of the estimated 12 million illegal aliens currently in the United States by allowing them to live in the country legally as “temporary” workers if they first return home and immediately re-enter after processing at an “Ellis Island Center” and being granted a “Good Neighbor SAFE Visa.” However, because the bill only allows citizens of NAFTA and CAFTA-DR countries to participate in the foreign worker scheme, the bill discriminates against citizens outside Central and North America.

“This proposal is a huge step backwards and would usher in a new era of Robber Barons and foster labor exploitation reminiscent of a century ago,” said Beck. “Americans need immigration legislation that puts national security and rule of law above the demands of greedy business profiteers.”

Although there are currently no estimates for how many new workers the Hutchison-Pence plan would allow, the number is sure to be staggering, for there is no limit on SAFE Visas for at least the first three years of the program; any citizen of a NAFTA or CAFTA-DR country may apply; and spouses and minor children will also be allowed to enter with the visa holder.

Additionally, SAFE Visas are renewable for up to 10 years in two-year increments, after which the visa holder may apply for an “X-Change Visa,” which lasts five years and then, after a total of 17 years in the United States, he may apply for Legal Permanent Residence followed by citizenship.

“Calling 17 years ‘temporary’ is like calling the period of time a baby is born to the time he or she applies for college ‘temporary.’ Anyone who stays for 17 years is neither temporary nor a guest,” said Beck. “The sheer influx of people that would be allowed in the country under this plan would further overwhelm our communities, schools, hospitals, and roads while making it even more difficult to find work and driving wages down for American workers.”

Jon| 2.27.09 @ 10:48AM

Meant to type "Dooley" above.

More on why Pence is a fraud on amnesty, from CIS director Mark Krikorian:

Another “No Amnesty” Amnesty
It was a nice try, at least.

By Mark Krikorian

It’s funny how every new “middle ground” on immigration is in the same place as the old ones.

The latest “middle ground” proposal comes from Rep. Mike Pence (R., Ind.). Pence, who has solid conservative credentials as head of the House Republican Study Committee, offered what he billed as “The Real Rational Middle Ground on Immigration Reform” at a Heritage Foundation speech last month. Since there’s no actual bill to look at, we have to judge from Rep. Pence’s speech and other materials what the program would be like.

It starts out well enough. In seeking an alternative to amnesty, on the one hand, and mass deportations, on the other, he laid out a four-step plan. The first step is securing the border, and he included the entire enforcement bill passed by the House in December (with two minor modifications) in his measure.

Step two is to reject amnesty. That also sounds good, until you remember that Senators Kennedy and McCain also deny their amnesty plan is an amnesty. As do Senators Hagel and Martinez. And President Bush. They all deny that they support amnesty because, as the president says, the only thing that constitutes amnesty is “automatic citizenship,” whatever that is.

Pence has a broader definition of amnesty:

Amnesty is allowing people whose first act in America was an illegal act to get right with the law without leaving the country. Allowing twelve million illegal aliens to stay in our country instead of leaving and coming back legally is amnesty, no matter if fines or back taxes are paid, or how it is otherwise dressed-up or spun by its proponents. The only way to deal with these twelve million people is to insist that they leave the country and come back legally if they have a job awaiting them.

This is exactly the same as the “touchback” gimmick in the Senate amnesty bill, which would require illegal aliens who have been here between two and five years to cross the border to be enrolled in the permanent “temporary” worker program and then immediately return to their homes and jobs.

That brings us to the third step: the guestworker amnesty. Yes, amnesty. Or, if you prefer, legalization. Or normalization. Or regularization. Or earned adjustment. Or whatever is the euphemism du jour. The fact remains that the guestworker program in the Pence plan is explicitly designed to allow all illegal aliens to keep their jobs and domiciles in the United States without interruption.

The congressman is quite explicit on this point. In explaining the need for speedy processing of the guestworkers, he says:

No employer in America wants to lose employees for an extended amount of time. No worker who is earning money to feed and clothe a family can afford to be off the job for long. … And, an illegal alien currently employed in America will be willing to take a quick trip across the border to come back outside of the shadows and in a job where he does not fear a raid by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In fact, I envision employers working with placement agencies to make sure that their long-time illegal employees get their paperwork processed, background checks performed, and visas issued so that they will be back on the job quickly.

In the 1950s, this process was called — in official U.S. government publications — “drying out the wetbacks.” Whether it’s called an amnesty instead, or is given some other label, the point is to let all illegal aliens stay legally.

But maybe the amnesty is time-limited? And in fact, part of Pence’s “no amnesty” claim is that the guestworker visa would be limited to a total of six years. This would be an encouraging requirement, except that, in the congressman’s words, “At that point, the guest should decide whether to return home or enter the separate process of seeking citizenship.” If legal immigration quotas are to remain in force, then these formerly illegal, now “temporary,” workers will have to leave, en masse, six years from now, which is precisely the mass deportation the congressman said (correctly) is unworkable. On the other hand, if these workers will be able to receive permanent residency outside the current limits, as they would be under the Senate amnesty bill, then this plan is the very “path to citizenship” that Rep. Pence made a big show of condemning. It’s unclear which of these is true, but it’s undeniable that the plan is either dishonest or amateurish.

Step four really takes the cake: a promise — really, truly, cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die — to enforce the ban on hiring illegals in the future. Pence himself says that since every illegal alien will be legalized, employers wouldn’t need to hire illegals, but that enforcement will be phased in nonetheless. This is exactly the bait-and-switch Congress perpetrated in 1986 — legalization first, enforcement later (i.e., never). It is for this reason that the House, animated by a “fool me twice, shame on me” skepticism, has insisted on “Enforcement First.”

There are plenty of other reasons to dismiss the Pence plan as unserious: by not calling for an end to automatic citizenship at birth, it makes the “temporary” claim meaningless; his gimmick of having the private sector screen the workers misses the point that they will still need to use (and receive security clearances for access to) the very same databases that the FBI and Department of Homeland Security use now; and to get “temporary” workers, employers will merely have to attest that they tried to hire Americans, rather than using objective measures to determine need, like rising wages or low unemployment in the specific occupation in question.

In fact, I didn’t write about this plan when it was announced because I didn’t think it possible that anyone could take it seriously. I was wrong. Though the Pence amnesty plan hasn’t been widely covered, it has received support, or at a least respectful hearing, from insiders who will affect the final outcome of any bill. It’s no surprise, for instance, that amnesty supporters like Dick Armey, John Fund, and Michael Barone have had nice things to say about it (not to mention several newspaper editorial pages), but even supporters of Enforcement First, like Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner and Newt Gingrich, have been more receptive of the plan than a close reading of it would warrant. It’s also ironic that Pence’s speech was delivered at the Heritage Foundation, given that his plan appears to violate Heritage’s “permanent principles” on immigration; it will be interesting to see what Heritage has to say about the plan.

In the end, the Pence Amnesty wouldn’t go down with the public any better than the string of other amnesty plans that have been proposed over the past couple of years. As Peggy Noonan wrote last week about the public’s suspicions regarding immigration plans: “they think — they assume, at this point, reflexively — that slithery, slippery professional politicians are using and inventing complications to obfuscate and confuse. ... Americans don't trust ‘comprehensive plans,’ because they don't trust the comprehensive planners.”

There’s only one way Congress and the president can earn back the public’s trust on immigration: Enforce the law — comprehensively, confidently, unapologetically. Then, after several years have passed and enforcement mechanisms are in place and working, and the illegal population has shrunk through attrition, Washington will have proven that, this time, it’s not lying about immigration.

Until then, no deal.

— Mark Krikorian is executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies and an NRO contributor.

Stuart| 2.27.09 @ 12:59PM

Ran, your point about Pence writing pieces for this site- or, for that matter, various newspapers is a good one. Reagan, through his letters and through his radio spots, clarified his own thinking and learned how to explain big issues in a clear and compelling way to people. He developed a skill so few Republicans today have: framing issues in terms of core principles.
It's far too early to get wrapped up in drafting Republicans for the 2012 race, but I'd caution Palin partisans out there. She's a vivacious, bright, and upright person. But she might never play very well across the 50 states. I agree that the campaing against her was hateful and bigoted, and I know that too many in the East and cities are biased against the milieu she's from, but the damm fact is that she's not likely to get a fair hearing from the many Americans the party will need to reach. As for Jindal, he's a very bright and accomplished man, but he had better can that "golly gee" tone. We're confronted with a pathologically slick, incredibly poised, and deceitful president.

ruth| 2.27.09 @ 7:09PM

If Palin isn't the real deal, I'd rather find out sooner than later. I just want to find out more about her. She flashed on the scene like a comet last year--and then disappeared. I still think she's got charisma, though.