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The Spectacle Blog

Holder: Waterboarding Is Torture

By Philip Klein on 1.15.09 @ 10:33AM

Answering questions from Pat Leahy, Holder declared, "Waterboarding is torture." He also said that it violates the Geneva Conventions, and that the president doesn't have to power as commander in chief to authorize the practice.

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L. Ross| 1.15.09 @ 11:08AM

We have certainly lowered the bar on what is torture in this country. Pretty sad.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that feeling like you are drowning is atrocious. Awful. May give you nightmares. . . But, five minutes later, you are going to be walking around, feeling fine, no pain, no injury.

I like to think of waterboarding as effective interrogation. I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy it, but hey, I've gone through the Air Force resistance training for interogation, and I didn't enjoy that too much, either.

Breaking limbs, bamboo under fingernails, things that require medical attention the next day, to me those things are torture.

While I'm on the topic, the prisoners at Abu Ghraib were not tortured. They were humiliated, but they were not tortured.

Final point, none of the countries we are fighting right now have signed the Geneva Convention, and are not under it's umbrella of protection. Yet, for some reason, we act as if they have signed it, and we pretend that they treat us in accordance with its protections, (instead of burning our men alive and hanging them from a bridge).

The Laws of Armed Conflict have been codified over the centuries to minimize damage to civilian populations, and minimize suffering caused by war. I know that sounds ridiculous, but it is true. There is a reason that real militaries wear distinctive uniforms, and it isn't just to look cool. We wear uniforms, we carry our weapons out in plane sight so that the enemy knows who they should try to target. Otherwise, the only sensible alternative is to round up everyone and just plain kill them all.

Sadly, the enemy we are fighting (islamists) have their worldview based on life life of Mohammed 1400 years ago. They have chosen to not identify themselves as military members by wearing distinctive uniforms, etc., and leave us a real conundrum in trying to defeat them. Since they are blending in with the civilian populace, they are putting that entire populace at risk. (See the kill-em-all comment above). Our need to extract actionable intelligence is amplified by our own desire to protect innocent Iraqis. As far as I'm concerned, more waterboarding, not less, is in our best interests, and frankly, the best interest of the nations we are in conflict with.