The American Spectator

Robert Moon| 11.18.08 @ 10:39PM

Shep is right. The Bailout for the Auto Industry is a sham. This whole bailout is nothing but an excuse for the government to buy up American Industry so they can control it. The damage is done, Communism is here.

Eugene Debbs| 11.18.08 @ 10:46PM

Am Spectator Readers --

Over the past week or so many of you have been debating some of the reasons you lost the election.

I recommend watching this clip and then thinking about how the conservative point of view gets argued on Fox and on right wing radio.

Your problem is rhetorical more than it is philosophical.

Smith -- in the above clip -- ends a pretty good defense of free market capitalism by telling someone his "politics are disgusting."

This makes him sound shallow and angry -- anything but reasonable. Had he cut off his argument before he came to the indignant, self-righteous anger, it would have been much more effective.

Right wing radio, of course, is much worse. The endless sarcasm, cynicism, and hostility and yelling turn people off.

Consider also the Hispanic vote, which did McCain great harm.

I happen to believe that most conservatives who believe we should have a secure boarder (and I agree strongly) are not disposed against hispanics in any way. Some of you are probably even sociologically sophisticated enough to understand that ultimately hispanics serve the conservative cause because of their traditional values.

However, it cannot be denied that immigration rhetoric got out of your control, and hispanics who are here -- legally and ready to vote -- perceived it as threatening or hostile.

As I've said many times: I'm a tax and spend liberal. I'm delighted the Democrats won. If you want to keep me happy, do the following:

1. Keep yelling. Keep name calling.
2. Keep press bashing.
3. Keep warning of Obama as a totalitarian or Nazi rather than engaging his actual policies and ideas.

Your way back into competition with liberals is to promote those among you who make sharp, interesting, civil, witty arguments. The bigots and the howlers will steer you wrong.

Here endeth the prophecies.

Eugene Debbs| 11.18.08 @ 10:52PM

Or, look at Mr Moon above...

"Communism is here."

That's just not accurate, remotely, Moon. And you should consider how morally insane it is to say we live under communism when we enjoy such incredible freedom and prosperity (even now).

That kind of exaggeration does the conservative cause a great disservice and makes you sound uninterested in describing the situation as it really is. Why should someone listen to you if you don't understand the form of government you live under? This is NOT communism. You may disagree with it -- and that's great. But be accurate and reasonable. Calling people communists and terrorists (or whatever) makes you sound unhinged.

tony| 11.19.08 @ 12:46AM

To Eugene Debbs:

Hilarious post. I have an idea for you. Why don't you google the names George W. Bush and Adolf Hitler, together, and see what you come up with.
The point is that those of you on the left have zero credibility when it comes to lecturing those of us on the right about name calling. As for press bashing, damn right we'll keep it up. The public has about as much respect for the MSM as they do for the current Congress .
Lastly, we will engage Pres. Obama with respect to policy. The question is how will people like you respond. Based on what we know about leftists and their racial mindset, I'm afraid that all we will get is a reflexive "the only reason they oppose him is because he's black" type of argument. I'm willing to be proved wrong, but doubt that it will happen.

tony| 11.19.08 @ 12:50AM

To Eugene Debbs:

Almost forgot to mention that I appreciate your admission that the right's problem isn't philosophical, but instead rhetorical. You're spot on there, and you should understand this fully, being a supporter of a man whose election was based solely on the use of lofty rhetoric, with a wafer-thin layer of substance as support.

stu.b.con| 11.19.08 @ 8:23AM

miss Debbs--you are a caricature of left wing folly. I'd ask you if you ever listened to the "intelligentsia" on air America, but hardly anyone does, or have you watched that scintillating intellect olberman? I could go on but I'm beginning to retch.
a rose is a rose is a rose...

Bob| 11.19.08 @ 9:21AM

Debbs, while I think the Republican party is pulled around by the nose by the notoriously un-conservative social conservatives, Shep was right on target with this one. I agree with everything he said - everything. He is the one commentator on Fox News that is "fair and balanced". In fact, I would use almost exactly the same words.

If you heard the analysis of the professor yesterday at Chris Dodd's hearing, he clearly made the point. The U.S. auto industry has made great strides in quality and efficient manufacturing over the past several years. However, labor costs are almost twice as much as the foreign manufacturing plants in the U.S. This results in less R&D;expense on a percentage sales basis than foreign competition. Given our move to depend less on foreign oil, we need to be able to spend more on R&D;, not less. Unfortunately, union contracts are the culprit, and unless they are broken, any infusion of capital only delays bankruptcy for a short period of time. None of this money would come back to us.

The auto companies need to go under so that they can get their costs and dealer structure in line.

ruth| 11.19.08 @ 7:24PM

Eugene, you are the howler and the bigot, conservatives are color-blind. 'Here endeth the prophecies', please God make it so.