The American Spectator

Bob| 11.13.08 @ 6:35AM

Did you actually read the article? Coulter, as usual, eschews fact and you guys want to believe so hard that you don't correct her. She claims that independents voted for Palin as justification for being more "conservative". All of the exit polls showed exactly the reverse -- independents voted for Obama first and McCain second. The primary reason Obama was first was the independents dislike for Palin. Those are the facts, guys, get used to it.

Thomas| 11.13.08 @ 9:26AM

Bob,

You and Ms. Coulter are both correct. Most, if not all of the "independents" surveyed who said they voted for the McCain/Palin ticket apparently voted for it because of Sarah Palin's inclusion. The obverse is, also apparently, is true for those "independents" voting for the Obama/Biden ticket.

There are two things that you have to understand about this, before you try to spin it. One there is no such thing as a true "independent". All people have some philosophical leanings. And second, by your own reading of this, idependents cast their vote according to their like or dislike of Sarah Palin, not their feelings for the Presidential candidates.

james23| 11.13.08 @ 10:10AM

Bob, give the Sarah-spamming a rest there will you? The woman seems to terrify you.

ruth| 11.13.08 @ 10:16AM

Bob has 'issues' with women, especially conservative women.

Captain America| 11.13.08 @ 10:17AM

RSM,

I feel ya, man, I feel ya. McCain wasn't my 1st through 4th choice but he was the only alternative to Obama. And where were the mods and indys, even the media, that McCain was catering to throughout his career?

J David| 11.13.08 @ 10:32AM

Unless we get a lot more Coulter conservatives out there, we just wave "BYE-BYE" to the GOP.

Bob| 11.13.08 @ 11:59AM

Thomas, your numbers don't add up. Here's what we know:

60% of the voters thought Palin was unqualified
19% of those, or 11% of all voters voted for McCain anyway.
McCain's vote in terms of all voters was 25% R, 18% I, and 3% D.
(Obama's were 32% D, 18% I, 3% R)
I would assume that the 25% R and 3% D in McCain's camp thought well of Palin.

That would mean 11/18 or 61% of independents that voted for McCain thought Palin was unqualified. There is absolutely no way your statement regarding independents thinking well of Palin could possibly be true.

Before you make dumb statements like that, work with the numbers a bit.

Ruth, how did you come to that conclusion? I like women, but I don't like unqualified, un-knowledgeable, poor speaking candidates regardless of sex.

J David -- if you get MORE Coulter conservatives, you can wave goodbye to the GOP for the next generation.

Bob| 11.13.08 @ 12:07PM

James23 -- Yes, Palin terrifies me. You can thank Bush, her inability to speak properly, and her lack of knowledge about things as basic as the Constitution. We might as well choose someone at random off of the street. She has NO INTELLECTUAL CURIOSITY. She had no press conferences, did not have any position papers, etc. She wouldn't even answer questions at her debate. We don't really know what she believes. Does she know anything about energy alternatives beyond oil? She doesn't know anything about the Supreme Court. Obama had 75 pages of position papers on his site and was giving foreign policy speeches starting in his 3rd year in law school (which he graduated magna cum laude).

By the way, I do like Romney and Jindal. Please, no more Republican candidates who are not intellectually curious, who did not do well in school, and who can't speak our language appropriately.

ruth| 11.13.08 @ 1:00PM

Hell, Bob, since you think you've got all the answers, why don't you run? Happy days will be here again. Everything will be perfect and there will be free ice cream for all--except those awful conservatives.

Bob| 11.13.08 @ 1:42PM

Ruth, I like conservatives. I don't like social conservatives who want to limit my freedoms and get into my bedroom. They are the new RINO's. And yes, I believe moving to conservative pragmatism with a concentration on solutions and not ideology. We need to concentrate on what will give conservative results even if they seem to violate conservative principles.

Perhaps I'll make you happy and run in a couple of years. Do you want to make a donation?

Crusader| 11.13.08 @ 2:16PM

Bob is a lib troll spouting the basic RINO line of "we need to move to the center." Blah blah blah.

Bob, I'm a "social conservative" and the last thing I want to do is limit your or anyone else's freedoms. Can you explain how we do that as opposed to spouting off lib talking points? And believe me bro the last thing I want to do is get in your or anybody's bedroom. See most of us "social conservatives" could care less how much pole you smoke as long as you don't infringe on my civil rights. Keep on doing what/whom you're doing Bob, I could care less. Just leave the lib talking points about us evil, fundamentalist social conservatives to HuffPo or Kos or wherever it is you go to talk about social conservative boogeymen with fellow psychotic, alternative-lifestyle leading libs.

Crusader| 11.13.08 @ 2:23PM

Bob and other libs are terrified of Palin because she represents a shift right of the GOP. Never before had a VP candidate come under such attack as Palin? Why? They were scared. Not of her alleged lack of "intellectual curiosity," but because she represented the best chance the GOP had of getting McCain elected.

Obama thinks there are 57 states. 'Nuff said.

Thomas| 11.13.08 @ 2:29PM

Sorry Bob, check me on this, but I tink you got your results backwards.

60% of all voters felt that Sarah Palin was unqualified, to be President, not Vice President. Assume that all of those who voted for Obama fall within this group. That means that you can subtract 53% of all voters from that 60%. Now we have 7%. If you assume, once again that, all of those people are to be found among independent voters, that still leaves you 11 of the 18% total McCain voters, or 60% of independents who voted for McCain, felt Palin was qualified to be President.

Therefor, most of the independents who voted for McCain approved of Palin. But this is not clearly defined. Exit polling, with regards to Sarah Palin's effect on voters cannot be tied to whether a voter thought her qualified or not. For instance, according to GCI. net news, only 40% of independents said that Palin had any impact on their vote and only 50% of that 40% [or 20% of all independents surveyed] were voting for Obama. So 60% of the independents, in this survey, for whom Sarah Palin was a factor said they were voting for the McCain/Palin ticket.

So, I will now amend my previous post. Most independents, who claimed that Palin was a factor in their vote and voted for John McCain, approved of Palin. So I will withdraw my statement that "Most, if not all of the "independents" surveyed who said they voted for the McCain/Palin ticket apparently voted for it because of Sarah Palin's inclusion". Happy?

As to comparing Palin to Obama, what's up with that? Palin was never the Presidential Candidate. And yet, in terms of executive experience, which you seem to discount in your comparison, had more than barack Obama, Joe Biden and John McCain, COMBINED. Palin didn't cost McCain the election. McCain cost McCain the election.

Bob| 11.13.08 @ 3:41PM

Thomas, you're numbers are wrong. First, in the 60%, only 81% voted for Obama -- you assumed all of them did. There were 19% that thought Palin was unqualified who either didn't like Obama or liked McCain -- we don't know which. Secondly, you need to subtract the Democrats who voted for McCain since most of them would have thought Palin was just fine (they are probably Hillary voters for whom chromosomes were important). Your assumption that an independent that voted for McCain had a positive view of Palin is just not proved anywhere.

Your numbers, Thomas, are therefore too simplistic and not correct.

Ruth, I don't want you to tell my girls what to do with their bodies, tell them who to marry, or force them into abstinence when they could be using contraception. I don't want anyone forcing religious dogma down their throats.

Crusader -- Palin is NOT a shift to the right, but a shift to religious intolerance. I want the best and the brightest in the White House. I don't have any problems with either Romney or Jindal -- both of whom claim to be social conservatives. They are both smart and competent and would be good examples for my grandchildren. So your assumption that Palin scares me because of her social conservatism is plainly false.

Thomas| 11.13.08 @ 4:36PM

Bob,

I used your numbers. All of the assumptions that I made were clearly stated in my post and they mirrored your own. There is a mistake in your arithmetic. Let me try this again.

"60% of all voters felt that Sarah Palin was unqualified, to be President, not Vice President. Assume that all of those who voted for Obama fall within this group. That means that you can subtract 53% of all voters from that 60%. Now we have 7%. If you assume, once again, that all of those people are to be found among independent voters, that still leaves you 11 of the 18% total McCain voters, or 60% of independents who voted for McCain, felt Palin was qualified to be President."

60%- % of total voters who were anti-Palin
53%- % of total voters who voted Obama
7%- % of anti-Palin voters who did not vote OB
18%- % of all Indys who voted for McCain
11%-% of all indys who were pro-Palin & voted M
61%- % of McCain indys who were pro-palin

60-53=7
18-7=11
11/18=.61 [61%]

I assumed, as you did, that all Obama voters found Palin unqualified, hence 60%-53%=7% . Democrats and Republicans have no real bearing on this matter, because we are only discussing Independents who voted for Palin, not any other group. In case it skipped your attention, Democrats are not Independents.

As to citing my source, I did in fact do that; unlike you. In fact my source material would estimate that only 40% of all independent voters considered Palin to be a factor. And that only 50% [20% of all independents] of that group were pro-Palin and voting for McCain, while roughly the same number were anti-Palin and voting for Obama. Disregard this last info if it confuses you. But I will stand by my amended post.

ruth| 11.13.08 @ 7:22PM

Honest, Bob, I couldn't give a flying rat's a** what you do every day of your life. I just WANT YOU TO GO AWAY. I think there are others here who share my sentiments. So, why are you here? Regardless, I'm still going to insult you every time you say something crappy about conservatives.

Crusader| 11.13.08 @ 10:30PM

Bob, exactly what religion is Gov Palin intolerant of?

Also, please rationalize the left's harping on the "intolerance" of Christianity but at the same time their undying love for that most tolerant of "religions," islam?

Can you point to specific instances where the freedom to practice (or not) your brand of religion or faith was specifically infringed upon by Gov Palin?

Do you understand the difference between someone tolerating something (or not) and someone denying someone their basic civil rights? They are not one and the same. I am intolerant of liars, however I will not deny someone their basic civil right to freedom of speech. See the difference?

Libs spend too much time "feeling" things and not enough time, well probably none at all actually thinking a situation through. Then they spout off talking points or name call--intolerant, bigot, racist-if you disagree with them. Baby, childish stuff really.

Crusader| 11.13.08 @ 10:37PM

Thomas, your math is too much thinking for a lib like Bob. Libs only feel. Like Pavlov's dog they have certain trained responses:

Bush - Stupid
Palin - Stupid
McCain - Old
Cheney - Evil

And on and on. You can't reason with a lib. Even in the face of undeniable facts they will STILL not believe reason and truth. There was an article on WND that mentioned this psychiatrist wrote a book saying liberalism is a mental disease for the abject failure to embrace truth and reason (among other things). If this election wasn't evidence enough of that I don't know what else could be.

Thomas| 11.13.08 @ 10:59PM

Crusader,

You are probably right. But, other liberals read this blog now and it never hurts to remind them that Conservatives are not married to their sibling and living in a single wide behind a liquor store.

Though since we haven't heard from Bob since this afternoon, it probably means that the library is closed for the night.

Ran Hay| 11.13.08 @ 11:00PM

Ruth, Thomas... shhh! Ignore it and it will seek attention elsewhere. Crusader has a point... FBWOT and it wears out your keyboard.

RSM: What I hate about Coulter is that she makes me laugh. She's s damnably obnoxious and rough about the edges. Heh - So I manage to get my teen-aged daughters to read her now and then. They could learn a thing or two from Ann's take-no-prisoners defense of Liberty.

ruth| 11.13.08 @ 11:47PM

Yeah, I know. I try to ignore these trolls, but it chaps my a** to watch my beloved country repeatedly attacked and not defended. Goes against the Scot in me. Besides, that jerk, bob is a liar. He's a liberal troll pretending to be a moderate.

ruth| 11.13.08 @ 11:59PM

Thomas, I couldn't care less how liberals see me. In a million years there's no way we could out-
deviant them. Ever see a gay pride parade? It would make you throw up in your mouth.

Thomas| 11.14.08 @ 12:09AM

Ruth,

Unbelievable as this may seem, there are people who think of themselves as liberals simply because they don't know any better. Bob is probably not one of those, but this site has been getting a lot of traffic from people who are obviously not Conservatives and probably not even Republicans. I never post for people like Bob, as he is hopeless. I post for people like you and those liberals who can be persuaded.

So remember. Be nice, until its time not to be nice.
Bedtime. Got work in the morning.

ruth| 11.14.08 @ 12:35AM

I am nice, just not when I feel like my back is up against the wall.