The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : Obama Lies on Dying (?)

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I really hesitate to bring this up. This is a very touchy subject. I noticed the following discrepancy during Obama's nomination acceptance speech in Denver, and have sat on it all this time. I now write on it advisedly, in light of thew new story about Obama's ill grandmother, to say that the questions I ask ought to be raised by somebody, but only if they are raised sensitively, respectfully, and not as a "gotcha" but as a legitimate question of Obama's truthfulness that ought to be raised, answered, and then (one hopes) disposed of, with an adequate answer, without being made subject to campaign frothing at the mouth. But IF what appears to be a lie is indeed a lie, then somebody "neutral" -- such as the Washington Post -- should mildly note it for the public record.

From a new report from CBS, about why Obama is rushing off to see his ailing grandmother, see this: Obama didn’t get to his mother before she died. “Yeah, got there too late,” he says. “You know, I mean, it was sort of like this, in the sense that she had a terminal illness. We knew she wasn't doing well, but you know, the diagnosis was such that we thought we had a little more time and we didn't. And so I want to make sure that I don't make the same mistake twice.”

This is perfectly understandable, and laudable, human emotion. Not that it matters what I think, but I think Obama merits praise for visiting his ill grandmother in the midst of the campaign, and I think he is doing it in a dignified fashion. My sympathies go to him and my sympathies and best wishes to his grandmother.

But, in light of the fact that Obama was not around, indeed was not even close, to his mother (geographically) as she lay dying, how then could he possible make this claim that he made in his convention speech?: "As someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer, I will make sure...."

He used the line about his dying mother as a way to humanize, but also to create political sympathy for, his call for more government involvement in the health care system and for his habit of demonizing the insurance companies. Unfortunately, it begins to look like nothing so much as Al Gore's utterly false claim that he promised his dying sister to fight the tobacco companies forever. (Remember that Gore was NOT anywhere near his sister when she died, and he CAMPAIGNED, AFTER she died, by bragging about having harvested tobacco himself, and he had a fairly pro-tobacco legislative record until several years after his sister's death. In other words, he made up the sob story for political effect, and used his dead sister as a prop. It was despicable.)

Let's review the Obama thing. He himself acknowledges that he was not with his mother before she died. So he did not "watch" her "while she lay in bed dying."

Okay, fine. Maybe he was with her as she argued with insurance companies in the months before she died. Maybe he just sort of telescoped the time frame for ease of telling the story -- hardly a terrible sin. If the story is true that she argued with insurance companies as she lay dying and that he watched her as she did, it would hardly matter if it was two days before or five months before: The point of insurance company perfidy would be the same and the story would be in most essentials true.

But here's what the Washington Post reported about it in the weekend BEFORE the Demo convention: He was into his Chicago phase, reshaping himself for his political future, but now was drawn back to Hawaii to say goodbye to his mother. Too late, as it turned out. She died on Nov. 7, 1995, before he could get there.

Ann had returned to Honolulu early that year, a few months before "Dreams From My Father" was published. She was weakened from a cancer that had been misdiagnosed in Indonesia as indigestion. American doctors first thought it was ovarian cancer, but an examination at the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York determined that it was uterine cancer that had spread to her ovaries....

[Sister] Maya was in New York, about to start graduate school at New York University, when her mother got sick. She and her brother were equally slow to realize that the disease was advancing so rapidly. Maya had seen Ann during that visit to Sloan-Kettering, and "she didn't look well. She was in a wheelchair . . ..... by November her condition had worsened. She was put on morphine to ease the pain and moved from her apartment to the Straub Clinic. One night she called Maya and said she was scared. "And my last words to her, where she was able to respond, were that I was coming. I arrived on the seventh. My grandmother was there and had been there for some time, so I sent her home and talked to Mom and touched her and hugged her, and she was not able to respond. I read her a story -- a book of Creole folk tales that I had with me about renewal and rebirth -- and I said it was okay with me if she decided to go ahead, that I couldn't really bear to see her like that. And she died. It was about 11 that night."

Barack came the next day. ....

Look at that again. Obama was in Chicago. His mother went to New York. He did not appear to visit her there. Then she went to Hawaii. He DEFINITELY did not visit her there. So how, pray tell, did he "watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer"?

Poor man, he never saw her as she lay dying -- or so it appears. It must have been a terrible trauma. I say this in all seriousness. He cared enough to fly to Hawaii when it became clear just how badly sick she was, and he got there just too late. That's a nightmare. The regret would certainly be lasting. Nobody should ever question his real, human feelings about that loss or about his inability to properly "say goodbye." That is NOT what this is about.

But when was it that she argued with insurance companies? Why use that example in his speech? If it wasn't true, then it was a cheap trick to play on people's emotions by using his mother as a prop. And THAT is worth having somebody in the establishment media bring up.

All of this can be cleared up. Maybe Obama made a quick visit to New York from Chicago, and maybe his mother was arguing with insurance companies even then. But the Post story makes a point of noting that MAYA had seen her mother at Sloan-Kettering, as if Obama didn't. But maybe he did. It is clear that it was JUST a short stay at Sloan Kettering, though -- that she wasn't there long at all, and that Obama was based in Chicago then. She spent most of her time with cancer back in Hawaii.

This was a human tragedy, like the ones millions of families suffer through each year. It breaks my heart. But why did Obama feel a need to use it for political effect -- unless, somehow, it was actually true?

If, and I repeat "if and only if" there is no good explanation, then it is a mark, another mark, of a character deficiency, just as it was with Al Gore, for Obama to have made up the story about his mother just to score a cheap political point. Handled sensitively, it is a legitimate question to ask.

miranda flood| 10.22.08 @ 7:26PM

please. my mother died of cancer and it took 2 years -- dying of cancer can take forever -- just ask someone who has it -- and there were many many arguments with insurance companies during those two years. i wasn't there the night she died. i would have been, had anyone been able to predict when, but people can't, and this is a ridiculous criticism.

Janice| 10.22.08 @ 7:30PM

This is interesting. No one would dare touch it, and the people who know the truth will never talk.

The last days of Ann are sad. Payback is a bitch.

Scott| 10.22.08 @ 7:42PM

In this situation it is fair to say he "watched" her without hovering over her deathbed.

I've "watched" people go through some pretty hard stuff without being with them every second of the day. Nor did I take him to mean that she literally died while arguing with the insurance company.

charlie| 10.22.08 @ 8:04PM

You need to get a life. Immediately. Preferably in another country

l. loui| 10.22.08 @ 8:05PM

1997 Chicago Review has picture of Obama with a review he did for Ayers' book(not found until someone went and microfische it at a chicago library) and obama shared an office with ayers for 3 years so there goes "a guy who lives in my neighborhood.

obama also said his children - all under ten years old - went to shcool with ayers' children who are in their twenties.

video recently surfaced of a trip obama made just last year 2007 showing him campaigning for RAILI ODINGA. odinga named his son FIDEL CASTRO.

odinga believes in sharia law and radical islam, and this is who obama backs.... so has he changed his mind about sharia law between last year and today?

2002 video(same time obama was very friendly with Ayers) just surfaced showing william ayers saying HE IS A MARXIST AND APPROVES OF THE JIHAD.. while quesitoning Christians.

i ask all my fellow americans, how can democrats still back this man? when they had no proof of who obama was i can understand their preferences, but now that they know, JUST WHAT IS THEIR EXCUSE?

here is a man who applauds the likes of those who bombed nyc on 9-11; a man supporting a man who named his son FIDEL CASTRO and fighting to bring radical Islam to Kenya.

l. loui| 10.22.08 @ 8:16PM

OBAMA IS A FRAUD AND A LIAR.... PERIOD.
one or two things here and there you can overlook, but this man has a documented 200+ lies that have been proven to be lies beyond a doubt and it relates to this one election, begining with him lying that John F. Kennedy purchased the ticket for his dad to come to America.

it continues with his claim that he "forgot" Rezko gave him $250K (who forgets a thing like that)?

he didnt report the money he gave to A.C.O.R.N. due to "clerical" error.

he was clueless that his camp was in touch with the Canadians re NAFTA until a memo surfaced showing HE DID KNOW.

he told mcCain he would take public funding on video, then did just the opposite.

he said he would meet without preconditions then tried to wiggle out of it, even tho its right on tape.

I have seen a list of over 200 lies someoone compiled of obama's lies that relates to this election alone.
THE MAN IS A FRAUD AND A LIAR.... to "settle" for that says more about the person voting for him than the man himself.

jhimmi| 10.22.08 @ 8:54PM

Obama is a typical politician. Nothing more, nothing less. Everything he has done since he enrolled at Columba was done to boost himself up to the next rung on the political ladder.

Geri| 10.22.08 @ 10:06PM

I was not with my mother at the time of her death. But loved her very much, as I am sure he loved his mother. This country is based upon freedom of religion, also not just Christian. He is a Christian. I see many undertones of Racism concerning him. Shameful

Red Neck| 10.22.08 @ 11:21PM

Somehow Obama's melanistic epidermis is supposed to insulate him from acid criticism of what he did in Kenya, reducing it to mere "racism." Newsflash: his antics in Kenya would have still been ghastly wrong had he been white, yellow, red, or a green Martian.

J. Peter Freire| 10.23.08 @ 1:01AM

Quin, I just don't see this as an important issue. I'm not dying of cancer, and even I have had to argue with insurance companies. This isn't anywhere near Gore's silly myths. Further, it's the sort of thing you don't simply "assign" to the press.

put down the race card, PLEASE| 10.23.08 @ 4:41AM

Geri | 10.22.08 @ 9:06PM
I was not with my mother at the time of her death. But loved her very much, as I am sure he loved his mother. This country is based upon freedom of religion, also not just Christian. He is a Christian. I see many undertones of Racism concerning him. Shameful
-------------------

since i dont see tones of racism, i would say you are IMAGINING racism, but isnt that just like the script michelle sends out?

answer everything with "smear" or "racism"? i think its time for you to get off of that. if racism was in play in such a large part where would obama be with america only has appx. 13percent Blacks?

the same or should i say even moreso can be said of blacks being racist against mcCain since proportionately they are voting less for mccain than whites are for obama.

imo| 10.23.08 @ 4:43AM

i think this figures right into the pattern of obama's characer, so imo it is relevant.

Jerry| 10.23.08 @ 6:59AM

If Obama is a Christian, then I'm Bugs Bunny! He is closely associated with an unrepentant terrorist, he spent 20 yrs. in a church where hate and racism was regularly preached from the pulpit, he supports killing babies in the womb, he campaigned for his genocidal-sharia law cousin (Odinga) in Kenya, and he's a blatant liar. There is nothing Christian about him unless staged for a photo-op. By their fruits you shall know them.

Alene| 10.23.08 @ 7:20AM

Where is the birth certificate?? This person is not cool and presidential. He is cold and calculating. He is a user with whatever it takes to be in power. including using his Grandmother. Of course he may have other reasons to go to Hawaii......

LittleMissGrits| 10.23.08 @ 7:43AM

From Dreams of My Father, Obama writes ... or somebody writes for him ... 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.' Again he states in Dreams ... 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.' Well, this speaks volumes, does it not?

Conrad Bibby| 10.23.08 @ 7:46AM

I think Mitt Romney immunized Obama from this attack in claiming he "watched his father march with MLK." The argument was that "watched" has a less literal sense similar to "was aware of." If that's Obama's response, I think the usage here amounts to reasonable poetic license. Ultimately, the point is that Dunham spent some of her final days arguing with the insurance company, not that Obama watched her do it.

Jeanne T.| 10.23.08 @ 8:13AM

Obama claims to be a "Christian", but he is the first Presidential candidate, and possibly the first President that I know of, who has openly mocked the Bible (in addition to misinterpreting it). He also denies essential Christian doctrine. He has mocked people of faith as "clinging" to their guns and religion (like the Rev. James Caldwell and other heroes of the American Revolution? (Look him up.).

I would like to ask him why he chose Christianity over Islam (I say Islam because he went to Islamic schools overseas). What was it about Christianity that held a larger attraction for him?

Don L| 10.23.08 @ 8:29AM

You can tell just how efficient the left's attacks on truth are when a conservative writer has to apologize as much as this (Opening paragraph)l before telling the truth. We have lost the war because we have failed in attacking and exposing the left's deception methods of deception and control. Political correctness should have been understood (and attacked in open warfare)to be a weapon of untruth and censorship long before this. Assuming that holding truth and being right was sufficient to win American hearts was a big mistake the right has made. The second mistake is putting up leaders who try to please those that seek to destroy America. Those "my friends across the isle" comments by McCain were evidence of his incompetence. Underestimating the enemy is guaranteed defeat and the enemy is within America disguised as the Democratic Party. It looks like the time to win this fight is long gone.

Sharon| 10.23.08 @ 8:30AM

Obama has no substance. Good job on this story. His grandmother is being used for political reasons. Many of us have had similar experiences. Most of us hearing that another close family member was dying (and may not make it to the election) would go right away. What is with the scheduled visit. Did I miss something? When Obama and family were in Hawaii, did he visit his grandmother? All I saw was pictures of him on the beach etc. I get the impression that regardless of comments to the contrary, Obama is a cold person and not "close" to any family members. None of his stories hold up to scrutiny. Seems like Dems are all proned to exaggeration.

Natalie Kanek| 10.23.08 @ 8:59AM

Obama left to Hawaii to try to cover up the fact that his birth certficiate is a forgery and he is NOT a natural born citizen! He cannot be President under Section II of the Constitution!
It's the October Surprise I've been praying for! The guy's a fraud and the media runs his propaganda machine!

bentley| 10.23.08 @ 9:07AM

To Janice's "payback is a bitch" comment: How heartless and judgmental you are! Are you sure your children will be at your bedside when you're dying? Or have you judged them out of your life also?

I will discourage my children from being here while I die, because of the pain it will cause them, as I suspect Anne did...

anne| 10.23.08 @ 9:24AM

Just more Obama dissembling, creating the Axelrod biographical "narrative" to hypnotize the pathetic into voting for Obama, The Water Walker socialist, based on some misplaced sentimental twaddle ... just more Obama ghost-written "Dreams" of his so-called life ... just more Obama "words - just words?"
You betcha', bro- and absolutely empty words just like Obama's moral/ethical black hole abyss.
Only a self-serving, megalomaniac coward like Obama would use his mother for self-promotion.
Obama/Biden/Axelrod =
Nope, Dope, and Deceiver 2008
America's finest Marxist Socialists

Upset| 10.23.08 @ 9:45AM

Why are you making time to write about issues in this man's personal life that you would not want written about yourself? How are you able to be the judge in this situation? If you're going to write about something stick with the campaign issues, not this man's personal life. Can you say you were at the death beds of everyone you were very close to in your family? If not, then SHUT UP!!!!!!!! I tell you what, since you have so much time on your hand to write about this issue with his grandmother, why don't you buy a ticket and fly out to Hawaii and see if he's telling the truth, since you're so overly concerned, then maybe you'll have some answers to your stupid questions!

J David| 10.23.08 @ 10:15AM

Obama's hypnotized throngs don't care about lies, large or small, as socialists and communists (they are just varying degrees of the same thing) believe ANY means to gains their ends, even bombing gov't building and killing cops, are justified. His minions kill babies by the 10s of millions, born and unborn, and consider it not only morally just but commendable, and furthering the cause of women. These are not people who live in a reasonable reality, and so many are "on the dole" that appeals to personal responsibility, thrift, tax cuts, military preparedness, shrinking gov't, or any other basic tenet of a free people can't reach their warped minds.

Rob| 10.23.08 @ 10:30AM

How about another lie? Obama said "my grandmother has always been christian" ,but she told the New York Times in her own interveiw that "i am a strong believer in islamic faith"!! If he lies about his OWN grandmother,can you really believe anything else he says?

Lanny R. North| 10.23.08 @ 10:43AM

This article is simply outrageous. I missed the death of my beloved grandfather and have regretted it ever since, but I had my sister and mother there at his bedside and through them recieved reports so vivid and shared that I have difficulty remembering the time as anything but immediate. I know I was 6000 miles away in Hawaii but I felt, listening, as if I were there and was definitely deeply concerned about the recovery and circumstances surr0unding the hospitalization of my grandfather. To use Barack's reporting of his concern and the vividness of that concern as something of a "lie" is simply being not only false but beastial.

This is entirely out of line and should be atoned for.

Julius Tan| 10.23.08 @ 12:01PM

This level of viciousness against Obama and everything he says is unconsionable.

largebill| 10.23.08 @ 1:42PM

You people who are getting all agitated did you even read the article? The issue isn't whether he was there or not. Many of us fail to see loved ones before they go. The issue is he made up a story about seeing her on her death bed arguing with insurance companies in order to score a political point by bashing our current health care system. If his mother had lived outside the U.S. for several years I doubt she even had health care insurance. From what I've seen of this character (and most politicians) it isn't much of a stretch to believe he'd make it up.

TruthBeTold| 10.23.08 @ 1:55PM

Don't let all the calls of racism discourage you from trying to find the truth. Truth matters no matter the color of ones skin. I'm dissappointed the more I find out about Obama the more of a typical lying manipulating politician he is. Just like the rest. Those of you who are expecting him to be different and hiding from the truth about him are going to be in for a big let down.

Ginna| 10.23.08 @ 8:30PM

The writer is a complete moron and obviously knows NOTHING about cancer. Once you have been diagnosed with an advanced staged cancer, you are DYING but it may take YEARS of suffering multiple hospitalizations--any of which could be the last. I had a close friend who suffered two years and 10 hospitalizations after being told she was dying of ovarian cancer and my grandmother has been suffering for 3 years with "terminal" brain cancer. I hope the writer will someday get to see a loved one wither away so he can see how narrow minded he is.

trailing wife| 10.23.08 @ 8:38PM

I'm confused. Senator Obama's mother lived until early that year in Indonesia, where she had lived for decades, correct? And when she finally arrived in Honolulu she had a pre-existing condition, metasticized utererine cancer? What American company would then give her medical insurance? Had she used an American insurance company while abroad? We did that while posted to Europe by my husband's corporation, and it cost them an awful lot of money - had we been paying out of pocket we would have used a local company. I was under the impression that Obama's mother was self-supporting after divorcing Mr. Soetero, which would certainly explain her inability to pay her son Barack's private school fees or university tuition, but would also suggest she hadn't deep pockets to pay for expensive American health insurance for all those years.

If I am correct, then the insurance company with which Obama's beloved mother was arguing was Indonesian, which would explain why they were not excited about paying American medical fees. Either that, or she dumped her first-born son on her parents without providing adequate financial support, spending it on expensive American health insurance for herself -- and perhaps her other children -- instead.

EyezWideOpen| 10.23.08 @ 8:40PM

People! The old saying "if it sounds to good to be true...: applies here. Look beneath the radar and you will see what I see. Barack Hussein Obama is a puppet. Hand stuffed and sewn by the socialist leaning liberal left wing media. Who really wrote his books? Who really are his friends? Who really provides all the money he is spending on this campaign? Folks, this guy is NOT what he seems... it is much worse than you and I think... Hold tight, the ride is going to get worse.

mamabear| 10.23.08 @ 10:32PM

Gee...are there any Christians here? Are we all Americans...because based on what I am reading I don't see any honorable views.

Some people take six months to die of cancer. He said he was not with his Mother when she died...not before she died.

Have mercy on us all and stop pretending any of these post authors care about anything but their own view...hardly American.

McCain and Palin are the liars.

mamabear| 10.23.08 @ 10:42PM

Obama went to one Islamic school for three years then moved back to America. I grew up overseas as a diplomatic dependent and I can tell you that I am more patriotic than anyone I know after living without everything we have in America...like clean running water, libraries and bookstores...something they dont have in developing countries.
Our founding fathers wanted us all to receive an education so we could be the beacons of wisdom and peace for the world...I am disgusted with anyone spewing fear and hate without the facts about the most honorable man this country has seen in politics in our lifetime.

carolyn Knox| 10.23.08 @ 10:46PM

His grandparents were Christian.

I grew up in countries like Vietnam and Bangkok ( 13 years ) and I am a strong, thinking Christian woman.

mamabear| 10.23.08 @ 10:59PM

Another argument above is similar to saying that anyone who buys anything made in China supports communism. Even those writing insensitive posts.

sunshine| 10.24.08 @ 12:15PM

It is shameful Christians are criticizing other Christian. My Bible says Mt 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.2.For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
God brings people together only SATIN pulls them apart. Who is your leader?
On a lighter note how are you all enjoying the lower gas prices? Did you know John McCains mom is an oil heiress?...true I can't afford higher prices again...can you? I was surprised when reading up on Mc Cains family. His family also fought in the civil war...guess what side? But in all fairness I heard Baracks family was on the same side.
Did you all know McCain while in Vietnam signed a confession that America was committing war crimes against humanity. Of course he was being torchured(spelling I know) so I don't blame him. I heard this might come out as the October surprise so I don't want you all to be shocked. I am sure Independent groups would attack this with men who served with McCain. So both sides of the isle have secrets I am SURE! May Peace Be In All Your Hearts and With You All.

Sunshine| 10.24.08 @ 12:27PM

OOPS! I wrote in hopes others would pray with me for Baracks grandmother. HMO's truly do decide your fate. I was really ill with a growing rapidly nodual on my lung. Lucky I got a doctor new to california from new york. I did get a biopsy which showed cat 4 with angry dis plastic cells. The HMO wanted to wait 6 months. My doc said she would most likely be dead in six months. He said fine I am putting in her chart you are refusing her life saving treatment. That way it will be on your shoulders when she dies... I got treatment and am fine now...I thank God everyday for my doctor. For those suffering I would suggest you ask the doctor to threaten to put it in your chart.

hogue| 10.24.08 @ 5:39PM

My gut instinct tells me this lying piece of human filth KNEW she was dead before he left to go 'see' her, and his obamadrones will cover up for him as they cover up everything else vile about IT.
Do NOT trip out and call me names, I am not wishing his typical white grandmother dead. I said, I think she is.
He lies about everything else, this would be no different?

Why did his dutiful wife and children not go with him to say good bye?
Why is she not by his side to love and comfort him through this sad sad time.
Which grandma is in possession of the REAL Birth certificate?

eight-states-seeking-to-require-barack-obama-to-provide-certification-of-birth-in-us-before-the
ONE OF THESE STATES IS HAWAII

Would that have anything to do with tit? Hmmmm?

CK| 10.24.08 @ 7:47PM

This is an embarrassing article. As a McCain voter, I beg you to take this garbage down.

The American Spectator

Comments

miranda flood| 10.22.08 @ 7:26PM

Janice| 10.22.08 @ 7:30PM

Scott| 10.22.08 @ 7:42PM

charlie| 10.22.08 @ 8:04PM

l. loui| 10.22.08 @ 8:05PM

l. loui| 10.22.08 @ 8:16PM

jhimmi| 10.22.08 @ 8:54PM

Geri| 10.22.08 @ 10:06PM

Red Neck| 10.22.08 @ 11:21PM

J. Peter Freire| 10.23.08 @ 1:01AM

put down the race card, PLEASE| 10.23.08 @ 4:41AM

imo| 10.23.08 @ 4:43AM

Jerry| 10.23.08 @ 6:59AM

Alene| 10.23.08 @ 7:20AM

LittleMissGrits| 10.23.08 @ 7:43AM

Conrad Bibby| 10.23.08 @ 7:46AM

Jeanne T.| 10.23.08 @ 8:13AM

Don L| 10.23.08 @ 8:29AM

Don L| 10.23.08 @ 8:29AM

Don L| 10.23.08 @ 8:29AM

Sharon| 10.23.08 @ 8:30AM

Natalie Kanek| 10.23.08 @ 8:59AM

bentley| 10.23.08 @ 9:07AM

anne| 10.23.08 @ 9:24AM

Upset| 10.23.08 @ 9:45AM

J David| 10.23.08 @ 10:15AM

Rob| 10.23.08 @ 10:30AM

Lanny R. North| 10.23.08 @ 10:43AM

Julius Tan| 10.23.08 @ 12:01PM

largebill| 10.23.08 @ 1:42PM

TruthBeTold| 10.23.08 @ 1:55PM

Ginna| 10.23.08 @ 8:30PM

trailing wife| 10.23.08 @ 8:38PM

EyezWideOpen| 10.23.08 @ 8:40PM

mamabear| 10.23.08 @ 10:32PM

mamabear| 10.23.08 @ 10:42PM

carolyn Knox| 10.23.08 @ 10:46PM

mamabear| 10.23.08 @ 10:59PM

sunshine| 10.24.08 @ 12:15PM

Sunshine| 10.24.08 @ 12:27PM

hogue| 10.24.08 @ 5:39PM

CK| 10.24.08 @ 7:47PM

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