Special Report
We Have a Conclave
A pilgrim-journalist reports from Rome.
(Page 2 of 2)
That surfaces the third point. Does someone from North America stand a legitimate chance at election? If the College of Cardinals chooses a North American, that man must be able to collect votes from the Europeans and the Latin Americans, since two-thirds of the college’s vote is needed to secure election. The absence of a clear front-runner suggests that could still be accomplished. An individual able to respond to the challenges and concerns of both the global north and the global south might be able to attract votes from the two largest bodies in the college.
Inside the Sala Stampa and across St. Peter’s Square at the Vatican’s Media Center, one floor below where the cardinals have been meeting for their general congregations, there is a lot of speculation about who might fit that bill. Two names continue to circulate: Dolan and Ouellet.
While it is best to avoid making predictions about the next pope, since such predictions almost never pan out, it is worth noting that Blessed Pope John Paul II often called New York the “capital of the world.” With its numerous vibrant ethnic communities, it sits at the crossroads of the globe.
The current archbishop of New York is Cardinal Timothy Michael Dolan, aged 63. He has served as the President of Catholic Relief Services, American Catholicism’s charitable arm to the Church in need in the developing world. While that might make him an appealing candidate to cardinals from the global south, the fact that he does not speak Spanish could make him an unattractive choice. To boot, it is well known that Dolan’s Italian is mediocre at best. With 28 cardinals, the Italians constitute the largest bloc within the European college.
In his favor, Dolan is gregarious and well-liked. He is a member of the Congregation for the Oriental Churches and the Pontifical Councils of Social Communication and the Promotion of the New Evangelization. Back home in the states, he is the President of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. He has a strong background in ecclesial management and he is known for his pastoral zeal. Both of those things are important to the Church at this hour.
At 68, Cardinal Marc Ouellet is the Archbishop Emeritus of Quebec, the Prefect for the Congregation for Bishops, and the President of the Pontifical Commission for Latin America. He is an accomplished and well-respected ecclesiastic. Under Pope Benedict, he served as a member of the second section of the Secretariat of State, the Congregations for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Catholic Education, Clergy, the Doctrine of the Faith, and the Oriental Churches, the Councils of Culture, Promotion of the New Evangelization, and Legislative Texts, and the Pontifical Committee for International Eucharistic Congresses.
Like Dolan, Ouellet is well-liked. But, he also brings intellectual accomplishment. He is a serious theologian in camp with Ratzinger. Yet some think he is too close to the Roman Curia at a time when it needs to be reformed. It is often claimed that the Church does not need another theologian-pope, but a pastor capable of reforming the Curia from the outside.
Regardless of the real chances of either Dolan or Ouellet being elected pope, let alone other North Americans like Boston’s Cardinal Sean O’Malley, there remains a lot of speculation about the age of the best candidate.
That’s the fourth point to bear in mind. It is rumored that the cardinals will avoid the election of an older pope. Time will tell. But, there are just six cardinals aged 60 or under. Europe has four of them. And, Asia/Oceania has the other two. Among them are Péter Erdö (Hungarian, 60), Wim Eijk (Dutch, 59), Reinhard Marx (German, 59), Rainer Maria Woelki (German, 56), Luis Antonio Tagle (Filipino, 55), and Baselios Cleemis Thottunkal (Indian, 53). Most of the cardinals are older than 70. Just 52 of the 115 cardinals are under 70. Europe has 26 of them, North America has seven, Latin America has nine, Africa has five and Asia/Oceania has the remaining five.
The cardinals could elect someone who sits in between the two major age groups – someone, that is, who is neither too old nor too fresh. On the one hand, Dolan could be considered too unseasoned. He has been a cardinal since 2012 and archbishop of New York since 2009.
But, he has the backing of Cardinals Rigali, aged 77, and Harvey, aged 63. Cardinal Harvey served under Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI as Prefect of the Papal Household. And Cardinal Rigali served as the President of the Pontifical Ecclesiastical Academy, Rome’s all important school for the Vatican’s diplomatic corps. Both men speak perfect Italian and command the respect of the Italian cardinals. Those connections might give Dolan a certain amount of gravitas in important quarters.
An interesting vignette: Heading into the Pope Paul VI Hall for one of the General Congregations, Rigali was spotted introducing Dolan to an important Italian cardinal. In Rome, the capital of Europe’s largest voting bloc, and among cardinals old enough to remember a statelier church, that’s how deals are made. Perhaps the exchange was a subtle manifestation of Romanità (or, Roman diplomatic polish). Time will tell.
But for now, one thing remains certain: At this hour, the Catholic Church finds herself in the midst of a crisis. Europe has forsaken its Christian heritage; the United States continues to become more and more post-Christian, post-modern, and secular; international financial crises continue to destabilize global markets and economies; and an Arab Spring situates global politics on shifting sands. Global Catholicism needs a shepherd who can confront challenges in both the global north and the global south. The Church needs another mediator pope.
In 1978, following the death of Pope John Paul I, the cardinals discerned God was calling them to make a bold decision and to take on the challenges of Communism in Eastern Europe. The cardinals discerned the Church needed someone who could mediate between Western and Eastern Europe. John Paul II was their man. After his surprising election, he presented himself to the faithful in St. Peter’s Square as a man “from a faraway country.”
This afternoon, I talked with a journalist from New York who was in that square when John Paul II was elected. We spoke just outside St. Peter’s Basilica, strolling beneath the central loggia where the next pope will make his first appearance. My friend told me that the atmosphere in Rome this week is not altogether different from the one that surrounded the square back in 1978.
Perhaps, that’s telling. Maybe we’ll soon have another mediator pope—a man “from a faraway country.”
Image courtesy Dfmalan.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (72) | Leave a comment
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Joellen| 3.12.13 @ 7:42AM
We pray that the Cardinals cooperate with the HOLY SPIRIT, and do GOD's will not the worlds.
Cobalt| 3.12.13 @ 10:37AM
Hopefully, the Cardinals will only cooperate with, and be influenced by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Jack in Wi| 3.12.13 @ 7:45AM
Cardinal Dolan used to to be my archbishop. I the plsure of spending an afternoon with him at a prolife meeting. He is about the most dynamic prolife dpokesman I ever heard and I have head many over the years. I have been following other candidates as well. They all sound worthy. I guess we will have to wait for the Holy Spirit.
Von Mises Jr| 3.12.13 @ 8:52AM
Where the hell is DRedful when you need a spelling champ? Jack, you are not drunk at 7:45 AM, are you?
jk carson| 3.12.13 @ 10:22AM
Very unkind of you, Von Mises.
Poor Jack is obviously in the early stages of dementia. Dementia--we will all experience it if we liver loong enuf.
Von Mises Jr| 3.12.13 @ 11:04AM
Jack can almost be lucid when he is not talking about killing Jews or Intoxicated.
At least he is not DRedful who is illogical when he talks about Jews or anything else.
jk carson| 3.12.13 @ 11:19AM
Contest Friday!
Be there. Wear red suspenders for extra points.
Jack in Wi| 3.12.13 @ 1:12PM
The Zionist goon squad strikes again. My post must have been pretty good. After all we can't have Jack portrayed as the pro-life conservative that he is. We must try to lie about him just becsuse he tells the truth about the abominable country in the Middle East. I believe in the univeral brotherhood of all men Jews, Muslims, and everyone else. I don't believe in demonizing Palestinians, who have been abused for 65 years or endless war for no sane reason.
TLP| 3.12.13 @ 1:48PM
See that, Mises?
When he's in his element: - Going after the Jews - he spells every word, right.
Jack in Wi| 3.12.13 @ 3:59PM
I am not going aafter Jews, who are my brothers and sisters. I am going after those who think that they can come in steal a country, throw out half it's inhabitatans, and keep opressing the rest. I believe in peace and justice. Israel stands for the opposite. Shalom.
Occam's Tool| 3.13.13 @ 2:21AM
"its," "after," "inhabitants," "come in AND steal," "oppressing."
Your logic is as bad as your spelling. Israelis BOUGHT their land, were attacked by 7 Arab armies, and captured the space up to the 49 border in defensive war.
Nazi Fudgepacker Cheesehead.
Occam's Tool| 3.13.13 @ 2:27AM
'67 also had a precise Casus Belli---look it up sometime, Jackboot. The 1973 war was called the "Yom Kippur" was for a reason, and was NOT an assault by Israel. Only because the Sinai was Israeli could they hold off on preventive war.
You start off believing that Israel has no right for exist. Your arguments regarding what the israelis should do comes , therefore, from a tainted well.
Of course, you pack Fudge for a living in Wisconsin, so taint is what we expect. Tell me t'aint so.
Who Knows?| 3.12.13 @ 4:11PM
0 + 0 = 0
Occam's Tool| 3.13.13 @ 2:28AM
Seems to me the West Bankers are doing all right---the gazans voted for war.
Ryan| 3.12.13 @ 8:53AM
Not Catholic, but I agree with Joellen. Each Christian has a vested interest in the Pope being a good leader and example to the rest of the world, as the most visible Christian leader.
TLP| 3.12.13 @ 1:50PM
Can we NOT have The 1st Black Pope?
Last I looked, the 1st Black ANYTHING, is always a NIGHTMARE.
SUBVET| 3.12.13 @ 11:10AM
Ryan....is there a difference between a Christian and a Catholic ?
Most Christians I know don't follow the Pope .....just the book of life.
Ryan| 3.12.13 @ 12:56PM
I don't "follow" the Pope, either, but I believe that, as the most visible Christian leader on the planet, we all have an interest in him being a good, wise leader (as the last two, at least, were, overall).
What do you "follow" about the book of life? We can have sharp disagreements about what it means at times and still both hold that it is the inerrant Word. Arminian? Calvinist? Post-, Pre-, trib? Preterist? Dispensational or Covenental? All positions held by people who believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and believe their position is clear in scripture.
Not all Catholics are Christians, and not all Christians are Catholic. I've known several Catholics who, while we have severe disagreements at times, understand that, without Christ, there is no hope for salvation.
A good basis is the Nicene or the Apostles' Creed - Creeds with solid Biblical foundations for each statement that practically anyone who proclaims Christ can agree upon.
FWIW, the best label for me denominationally-speaking is "Reformed Baptist," and I attend a PCA church.
Jack in Wi| 3.12.13 @ 1:17PM
There are 35000 squabbling Protestant sects and then there is the Catholic Church, without which none of them would exist. Oh! By the way the Bible you preach from was given to the world by the Catholic Church.
TLP| 3.12.13 @ 1:55PM
Actually, the Bible that we read, would have been Impossible without the Protestant Faith.
It was Protestants that made the Bible accessible to the masses, via their Translations from Latin to English, which some of them were Burned at the Stake, for their efforts.
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 3:33PM
BS.
The Catholic Church preserved the Bible during the dark ages before the invention of the printing press. Thousands of monks spent their lives copying over and over the Bible and other books long before Martin Luther came along. Most people during that 1500 year span were illiterate and paper and pen were expensive so even if the Bible had been translated into every language in the world most people would still not have been able to read it.
It was Saint Jerome who translated the Bible from Greek, the language of the Eastern Roman Empire, into Latin, the language of the Western Roman Empire around the turn of the fifth century. Latin was the language of the "masses" of the Western Roman Empire.
The Catholic Church began translating the Bible into English no later than the mid 8th century. The West-Saxon Gospels are a rendering of the Gospels originating in the south of England about the year 1000; seven manuscripts of this version have come down to us.
Ryan| 3.12.13 @ 3:33PM
And the printing press.
G. Neroni| 3.12.13 @ 3:57PM
The Protestants were just as cruel and barbaric as the Roman Catholics, and the Protestansts also burned "heretics" alive.
In Switzerland, John Calvin created a vicious theocracy in which morality police were employed to control people's behavior. Citizens were harshly punished for a wide variety of moral infractions, including dancing, drinking, and generally being entertained. Theological dissidents were summarily executed, like Michael Servetus who was burned for doubting the Trinity. It isn't surprising that some of the nastiest Christians in America today, like Christian Reconstructionists, are unabashed Calvinists.
G. Neroni| 3.12.13 @ 4:34PM
Martin Luther and John Calvin were not enlightened, forward-thinking individuals. They were brutal, superstitious, intolerant, and repressive individuals who exploited popular stereotypes of "witches" in order to persecute those who disagreed with their views. They were, in fact, murderers.
Ryan| 3.12.13 @ 4:46PM
Nice hyperbole. Drinking wasn't prohibited, it was drunkenness. Though you won't find a lot of debate that Servetus' execution was undeserved.
I'm not a "reconstructionist" (unless you ask a lefty, probably), but that's a WIDE range of people from hard-line theonomists to those who believe that a moral religious underpinning is necessary for a good society.
G. Neroni| 3.12.13 @ 5:01PM
Adolf Hitler and the Antisemitic Martin Luther
In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest reformers. And similar to Luther in the 1500s, Hitler spoke against the Jews. The Nazi plan to create a German Reich Church laid its bases on the "Spirit of Dr. Martin Luther." The first physical violence against the Jews came on November 9-10 on Kristallnacht (Crystal Night) where the Nazis killed Jews, shattered glass windows, and destroyed hundreds of synagogues, just as Luther had proposed.
G. Neroni| 3.12.13 @ 5:03PM
In Daniel Johah Goldhagen's book, Hitler's Willing Executioners, he writes:
G. Neroni| 3.12.13 @ 5:07PM
In Daniel Johah Goldhagen's book, Hitler's Willing Executioners, he writes:
"One leading Protestant churchman, Bishop Martin Sasse published a compendium of Martin Luther's antisemitic vitriol shortly after Kristallnacht's orgy of anti-Jewish violence. In the foreword to the volume, he applauded the burning of the synagogues and the coincidence of the day: 'On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany.' The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words 'of the greatest antisemite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews.'"
The extermination of the Jews in Europe was an end result of the hatred espoused by Christian leaders.
Ryan| 3.13.13 @ 8:09AM
I would suggest that Hitler just borrowed from whatever past German said to fit his own ends. Not that it justifies Luther, but there was a SIGNIFICANT amount of "blood libel" going around at Luther's time, from Protestant and Catholic alike, and actually only significantly decreased in recent centuries.
Using it to completely decry everything else Luther did is poor debate. It didn't make him wrong to question indulgences, to question the lack of ability of masses to read and understand scripture for themselves, etc...
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 4:00PM
Why so English centric?
France, Spain, Italy, Bohemia, and Holland possessed the Bible in the vernacular before the accession of Henry VIII; in Germany the Scriptures were printed in 1466, and seventeen editions had left the press before the apostasy of Luther.
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 4:03PM
Name one Protestant translator of the Bible from Latin to English who was burned at the stake.
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 4:09PM
Didn't say what I wanted to say. Add...."for translating the Bible."
"Tyndale died not for the right to read the Bible, as many Protestants arrogantly claim. He was put to death by the civil judges of the father of the English Protestant Deformation, for doctrines subversive of law and order, which Dr. James Gardiner, Protestant, said "was intended to produce an ecclesiastical and social revolution of a most dangerous character. . ."(3)"
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 4:07PM
The Tyndale translation:
"In 1528, the Bishop of London wrote to Sir Thomas More, requesting that he examine the works of certain "sons of iniquity" and explain "the crafty malignity of these impious heretics" to "simpleminded people." He sent More examples of the Lutheran writers. Tyndale was not mentioned in the letter, but his New Testament must have been among the books sent to More.
(1) St. Thomas More commented that searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea. Tyndale translated the term baptism into "washing;" Scripture into "writing;" Holy Ghost into "Holy Wind," Bishop into "Overseer," Priest into "Elder," Deacon into "Minister;" heresy into "choice;" martyr into "witness;" evangelist into "bearer of good news;" etc., etc. Many of his footnotes were vicious. For instance, Tyndale referred to the occupant of the Chair of Peter, as "that great idol, the whore of Babylon, the anti-Christ of Rome."
Even King Henry VIII in 1531 condemned the Tyndale Bible as a corruption of Scripture. In the words of King Henry's advisors: "the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people, and not be suffered to go abroad among his subjects." (2) Protestant Bishop Tunstall of London declared that there were upwards of 2,000 errors in Tyndale's Bible. "
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 4:14PM
"It is love of the God-inspired books in the Bible that caused the Catholic Church to protect the people from counterfeit translations as ardently as the State endeavors to protect the people from counterfeit currency. The "right to read the Bible," which is a moral right, does not include imbibing such a blasphemous and distorted translation as came from the contemptible ex-Catholic pen of Tyndale. His translation was ordered to be destroyed, not because it appeared in the English language, as you assume, but because it was a faulty, corrupted translation, which was a deliberate profanation of the Sacred Text. Does this action make the Church anti-Bible?"
Al Adab| 3.12.13 @ 4:17PM
Just a reminder not to forget the Eastern Greek church preserved in Constantinople until 1453 and continuing to today. That church and the church fathers before the split did a lot of yoeman work on keeping the Faith and the scriptures. Bishop Onesimus don't forget.
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 4:14PM
"If the Church truly wanted to destroy the Bible, why did her monks work diligently through the centuries making copies of it? Before the printing press (before 1450), copies of the Bible were hand written with beauty and painstaking accuracy. One reason for Bibles being chained to the walls of churches is because each copy was precious both spiritually and materially. It took a monk about a year to hand copy the entire Bible, so Bibles were scarce. Paper was not used during the Middle Ages, as the first paper mill was not built until the 15th century (in England). Every monastery had a scriptorium, a writing room, in those ages, where priests and monks diligently and lovingly transcribed Bibles. In that way the texts we have today were preserved. It is calculated to have taken 427 skins or parchments. It has been estimated that in 1518 the cost of a copy of the Bible wold work out at the 1952 rate of L218 (or about $1000),for material upon which to write a single Bible(4). Hence Bibles could not be distributed then as they are distributed today."
Ryan| 3.12.13 @ 4:51PM
This I'll give you, and answers a common misconception about the Middle Ages. However, the populace was not educated, and the RCC DID take the position for far too long that only they were capable of interpreting scripture, which led to some Traditions - which were rarely, if ever, questioned, and had poor Biblical bases - being held for FAR too long.
CJW| 3.12.13 @ 5:28PM
Did you know John Calvin was French, Jean Cauvin? I just learned that.
Occam's Tool| 3.13.13 @ 2:23AM
Uh, no. The Old Testament was composed by, wait for it, wait for it, wait FOOOOOORRRRRR IT: Jews. It's called the Tanakh, Jack.
Dumbass.
(As was much of the New Testament, but, you know, what the hey...)
Petronius| 3.12.13 @ 11:50AM
Of course Dolan is the home town favorite, but my money is on Cardinal Juan Queranza, a dark horse of the Hillarion Capucci school, master of intrigue, and a chip off the old Sixtus Himself. He's also a modernizer. His plans for administering the Sacraments on smart phones is what today's Catholic needs. The first, APPtism is ready for field testing and can be self administered by downloading the Vows, lighting a candle, adding Holy Water to forehead, and pressing Send. Pentext will be menu based. When you want to confess, select Mortal or venal, Commandment number and multiplier, and you will be prescribed the quantity of Ave's etc to be texted back. It's also inviolate and can't be deleted. Once the Holy Office plants their cookie in your browser you better watch it. The big one will be Netrimony if Samsung can come to terms. Touching phones back to back can save the bride's father a ton and maybe the next generation will want to stay in the Church.
Occam's Tool| 3.12.13 @ 12:21PM
The new Pope will need to worry about the rise of Islam and the imperilment of the West. All else is meaningless.
Ryan| 3.12.13 @ 12:58PM
The last few times, the Cardinals have actually been cognizant of the challenges of the day. Pope JPII was the right man for the Cold War. Benedict was the right man to work on pushing back against some of the modernization and dealing a little more with the pedophile issues.
This is said, as I stated above, as one who is not Catholic.
nathan| 3.12.13 @ 1:44PM
Andrew Bacevich wrote the following as we approach the 10th anniversary of Iraq. (I recommend the entire column to all of you) I also recommend Buchanan's column on both the pope and the Catholic church which has been in a state of dramatic decline since the end of WWII. Make of both them what you will.
Bacevich:
In what has become one of the most momentous stories of the 21st century, the inhabitants of the Islamic world are asserting the prerogative of determining their own destinies. Intent on doing things their way, they are increasingly intolerant of foreign interference. In Iraq and Afghanistan, Washington sought to revalidate an altogether different prerogative, one pioneered by Britain: an entitlement to meddle.
To reaffirm that entitlement after Sept. 11, 2001, the United States sought to demonstrate its capacity to impose its will on its designated adversaries. The failure of U.S. forces to do that — to win clearly and unambiguously — calls any further exercise of that entitlement into question. More to the point, it suggests that the big story of Muslim self-determination is likely to continue unimpeded, whether Washington approves or not. Sure, American troops captured Baghdad and overthrew Saddam Hussein. So what?
nathan| 3.12.13 @ 1:54PM
Briefly here are the numbers Buchanan cites in his column: In 1965 3 in 4 Catholics attended Sunday mass, today it's fallen to 1 in four. The number of priests have fallen by a third, nuns 2/3. Orders like the Christian Brothers have virtually vanished and the Jesuits are down by a fraction of their 1950's strength. Catholic schools had 4.5 million kids in the 50's now about a third of that. The sex scandals continue to extract billions (in my mind properly so given the cover ups) from Sunday collections of the abiding faithful. Again, read the rest of his column and make of it what you will. Is this just the Catholic church or churches in general? Are evangelicals similarly afflicted? But the next pope clearly steps into what for the western part of his congregation is clearly a huge crisis and getting worse.
TLP| 3.12.13 @ 1:58PM
It's called: Liberalism.
Who Knows?| 3.12.13 @ 4:11PM
zero plus zero equals nothing
Occam's Tool| 3.13.13 @ 2:29AM
They need to be bashed in the head as they are child abusing scum.
Drunken Sailor| 3.12.13 @ 12:56PM
Here is what I don't get. Not knocking the Catholic religion but why all the cloak and dagger secrecy? If your doing the Lords work why is much of the selecting of the Pope hidden from the world.
I guess I just don't get it.
Ryan| 3.12.13 @ 1:00PM
Probably to prevent outward controversy, particularly in this media-frenzy world. A united front is helpful here. It also helps prevent outside influence.
Al Adab| 3.12.13 @ 1:50PM
Conclave from Con Clave, with locks. The Church is not a democracy and the idea was to prevent corruption in the selection process with the buying and selling of red hats, benefices and the papacy. We non-Catholics tend to forget the centuries of history with which the Church contends. It is the central institution of Western Civilization and deserves our respect and interest.
TLP| 3.12.13 @ 1:59PM
Amen.
TLP| 3.12.13 @ 2:01PM
And, I'm not a Catholic, either.
I just acknowledge the Importance, of the Catholic Church.
Who Knows?| 3.12.13 @ 4:12PM
all zero all the time
Drunken Sailor| 3.12.13 @ 3:10PM
OK Al, now that makes some sense. Like I said, I'm not disrespecting the Catholics, just didn't understand the proceedings. Took a tour of the Vatican when in Rome. You can't visit Rome and not be impressed, likewise with the Vatican.
Al Adab| 3.12.13 @ 3:25PM
That is why this site is so valuable D/S. A lot of the time we just preach to the choir, but the interchange of insight and information is like a college seminar session. I learn much some many of you, that is our friends here.
Al Adab| 3.12.13 @ 3:31PM
Additionally there was a lot of talk yesterday about the anti-science church. Whoever that was might want to study the life of Pope Sylvester II who was responsible for bringing arabic numerals, Greek classics and the sciences including astronomy to the West. Did most of it while a Bishop and abbot before his selection as Pope. Might want to check out Otto III as Holy Roman Emperor as well.
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 3:37PM
You mean Hindi numbers. I've seen Arabic numbers and they look nothing like the ones we use.
Al Adab| 3.12.13 @ 4:18PM
Correct. As you know the Moslems took them from the Hindus. Small world after all, eh?
Petronius| 3.12.13 @ 5:36PM
In very truth. The "sequestration" is and was necessary to preclude any outside interference since business as usual involved the Church validating the Crowns and vice versa. The last Pope of that era was St. Pius X. And the last affair of State concerning the Vatican and the mundane world was the Lateran Pact of 1929 which was a treaty between the Holy See and Mussolini's regime which permanently ceded the Papal States to Italy during the reign of Benedict XV. That begs the question. What does that portend for this Sacred Conclave?
G. Neroni| 3.12.13 @ 7:05PM
The church deserves our respect when it earns it. There is so much in Christianity to admire and embrace, but there is also much to abhor and denounce.
All manner of evil has been committed in the name of the church and by quoting scripture.
Ryan| 3.13.13 @ 10:25AM
Plenty of evil in the manner of opposing religion as well. Naziism, Stalinism, French Revolution...
Petronius| 3.12.13 @ 5:24PM
Well in in a word, Yes. Our "main stream media" can't do to the Holy See what they do to the GOP by telling them if they don't pick the guy they want they'll never eat lunch in their town again.
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 3:35PM
Why do we have secret ballot elections in the US?
markenoff| 3.12.13 @ 3:16PM
We don't need a pope. We have a Messiah! Obama/Biden 2016!
Michele San Pietro| 3.12.13 @ 3:28PM
I hope the next Pope will a great Pope, who will not permit disgraceful attacks against the Catholic church from stupid and wicked people.
Al Adab| 3.12.13 @ 3:33PM
St Pete:
Have you read The Vicar of Christ about a former American supreme court justice who becomes Pope? It is interesting albeit fiction.
CJW| 3.12.13 @ 5:39PM
Al Adab
I read Vicar of Christ and Upon this Rock at the beach, great books. Interesting because the decisions of the Supreme Court are final on the constitution, and the Pope's decisions are also final in the Catholic Church.
Reading "The Reformation" by Hillaire Belloc. He believes the motivating factor for the Luther and Henry VIII splits was politics to gain control over the church lands that were taken and divided among Henry's supporters, and the German princes. And the other factor, Anne Boleyn wanted to be Queen and not just Henry's concubine. Seems there is always money and women involved.
Al Adab| 3.12.13 @ 8:06PM
W:
I'll have to try Upon this Rock (Murphy I assume). I also have the Taylor Caldwell Dear and Glorious Physician (Luke) and Great Lion of God (Paul) along with Pillar of Iron (Cicero). I enjoy the historical novels and her insights. Very interesting lady in her own right as well.
Your interesting note about church lands also raises the note that it was that issue which led to clerical celibacy as the sons of the bishops and clergy were no longer around to inherit. That stopped the breakup of the church estates.
CJW| 3.12.13 @ 8:39PM
Al Adab
Yes, it is Murphy, about St Peter. Will have to get the Caldwell books. I also like fiction that mix some history or current events. William Buckley's novels, such as Mongoose (JFK/CIA plans to kill Castro) and Henri Todd (Berlin Wall) are good.
Thanks for the Caldwell suggestion.
Occam's Tool| 3.13.13 @ 2:30AM
Personally, I liked "Saving the Queen." The technique DOES work.
Ryan| 3.13.13 @ 8:12AM
For the politicians at the time, I would definitely believe that. Not for Luther himself, but there were plenty of the Germanic princes who jumped on board to gain autonomy.
CJW| 3.13.13 @ 4:34PM
Not Luther or Calvin or Zwingli. But after they lit the fire, the politicians moved in to take the land and power.