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Car Guy
Electric Lemon Aid
It’s hard to squeeze juice out of, not to mention into, the taxpayer-endowed Tesla.
Elon Musk is brave. You’ve got to give him that.
After all, the PayPal billionaire and co-founder of Tesla Motors was ballsy enough to provide one of his six figure electric lemons (produced courtesy of $465 million in taxpayer-extorted “loans” to the company) to a writer for the New York Times. Who proceeded to write about it.
Just not in the way that Elon Musk probably hoped he would.
The NY Times writer — John Broder — decided to fact-check the Tesla’s claimed 265 mile range by driving the thing from Washington, D.C. to Norwich, CT. He barely made it — and that’s with extended pit stops along the way at Tesla-provided electric IVs.
Broder wrote (see here for the full rant) about having to turn off power-sapping accessories such as the heater (in the middle of winter) and cut his speed to 56 MPH (on the NJ Turnpike, where traffic routinely runs 70-plus) in order to avoid running the batteries dry before the car could gimp itself to the next “supercharger” recharging station. When he got there, he “tanked up” the batteries to an indicated 186 mile range, drove another 80 miles and parked the car overnight. The car’s range-meter (the electric car equivalent of a gas gauge) indicated 90 miles remaining, Broder wrote. Sufficient to make it to Norwich — or so he thought.
Next morning — after the car sat in the cold all night — that 90 mile range plummeted to just 26 miles. The car conked out before it got close to Norwich — and had to be flatbedded away.
When Broder’s article appeared, sparks flew over at Tesla’s HQ. Elon Musk went so far as to accuse Broder of lying about the car’s performance. In a Tweet, he wrote: “NY Times article about Tesla range in cold is fake. Vehicle logs tell true story that he didn’t actually charge to the max and took a long detour.”
Times spokeswoman Eileen Murphy fired back, stating that Broder’s piece was “completely factual.”
As a car journalist who has test-driven several electric cars, I’m siding with Broder and the NY Times. Let me first deconstruct Musk’s Tweet:
He claimed that Broder “didn’t actually charge to the max” and that’s like “starting off a drive with a tank that’s not full.” Well, except when you start off with say half a tank in a gas-burning car (the equivalent of an indicated 186 mile range in an electric car), it doesn’t plummet to an eighth of a tank before you actually begin your drive.
One of the biggest functional/engineering obstacles to electric car viability is that batteries lose power in the cold — while gasoline doesn’t. If you leave your car parked in the garage with half a tank, it’ll still have a half-tank tomorrow morning.
And range isn’t affected greatly by weather.
An electric car’s range is.
The colder it is, the shorter your range will be. Not just because batteries are less efficient in the cold, but also because in the cold, you’ll be using electricity for other things besides moving the car. Things like the heater — which in an electric car is powered by electricity — and if it’s dark out, you’ll be burning headlights longer — which also means burning juice. Which you have a finite amount of.
There is only so much juice — and once it’s gone, you are stuck. As happened to Broder.
About the Author
Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International) and a new book, Road Hogs.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (113) | Leave a comment
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C.B.| 2.19.13 @ 6:31AM
Electric cars are a joke. They will never work.
Sjccoach| 2.19.13 @ 9:09AM
Electric cars work. We've had them for years. They are known as golf carts. Why anyone would want to drive a golf cart on the highway is beyond me.
C.B.| 2.19.13 @ 6:32AM
Electric cars are a joke. They will never work.
SCMike| 2.19.13 @ 7:00AM
Batteries will continue to be the weak link in our modern world, not just transportation, because they are finicky. Don’t take my word for it, ask Boeing about its experience with state-of-the-art batteries on its Dreamliner.
I suppose hybrids are the ideal compromise for terrestrial vehicles, but adding a gas engine with a rope start to your 4G phone or tablet limits its convenience a bit. Why bother with a hybrid? The feature which seems to extend its range the most, regenerative breaking, is probably almost as problematic as the battery.
If you’re cruising around a golf course or retirement community, electrics are peachy. But get out on the open road and you’re risking failure.
Appleby| 2.19.13 @ 7:22AM
We had the same kind of test here in Ontario with the Nissan Leaf, with the same results. The tester also reported that there is a good reason why the Leaf comes with a certain amount of free towing -- because the car becomes a giant paperweight once the batteries are dead. Global Warming notwithstanding, Canada is still a very cold country for most of the winter, spring and fall, and a car that turns into a paperweight without much warning is never going to be much use around here.
donserge| 2.19.13 @ 7:26AM
Electric car hype is typical liberal BS. They cannot win you over with facts so they must shovel you the BS.
Pecos Pete| 2.19.13 @ 7:28AM
To quote C.B.: "Electric cars are a joke. They will never work."
Add hills and mountains to the drain machine. Add air conditioners to the drain machine. Add all of the electronics found in modern cars (TV, CD, lights on the dash board) to the drain machine. Add the EPA to the drain machine when it issues regulations for disposal of batteries used in electric cars.
Electric cars are a joke. They will never work.
Al Adab| 2.19.13 @ 3:28PM
Pete:
Makes me wonder what is the actual range and highway speed of the vehicle? What does it cost for the electricity to charge it every night? While city dwellers might think a twenty mile round trip is the norm, out in your part of the country the towns are how far apart? It is though a good looking car. Too bad it costs too much and won't get the owner where he needs to go.
Pecos Pete| 2.19.13 @ 7:31PM
Al: I drove 120 miles RT for groceries on Saturday. Then on Monday 60 miles RT to pick up mail (outside post office box) and the post office wasn't on the road to the groceries. Lots of uphill and downhill driving, not to mention the wind.
Speaking of wind, I wonder how much electric juice is eaten up when driving into a 30MPH wind? Of course, the elecManiacs will claim it a wash as on the way back the wind is at my back ... if it is blowing.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 7:31AM
When you complain about Ronald Reagan's waste of Taxpayer's Tens of Billions of dollars wasted on the "Star Wars" boondoogle that has never worked in 30 years of WASTED MONEY by Reagan and Republicans, then you can complain about the paltry government support of electric car technology which DOES WORK.
Otherwise, move on.
chuck| 2.19.13 @ 7:52AM
Can I complain about the $5 trillion+ that we have spent that has managed to institutionalize poverty, not lift people out of it?
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 1:57PM
Were you upset about the soup lines and destitute people on the street after the Bush Crash of 2008? Oh, wait, there weren't any, because the government provided support.
You mean you prefer soup lines and destitution when the economy tanks?
I don't know, since a trillion a year is for defense, is that what you are complaining about?
It isn't clear you know what you're talking about.
Al Adab| 2.19.13 @ 3:35PM
Specious arguments. National defense is a legitimate function of the national government and BTW, anti-missile defenses do work relatively well and are improving ask your very good friends the Israelis.
That said, the majority of federal expenditures for social service programs and executive agencies are not legitimate in any sense of the word. Nowhere in the list of enumerated powers are most of them to be found. Please do not respond with the old social security rhetoric. No one proposes to end it for those currently eligible, but regulatory agencies like OSHA, EPA, DOE (both) should go. Oh and the goal is to get people off foodstamps not increase the number of customers.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 3:42PM
Improving yes, but that's the whole point... You don't crap on new technology (Electric Cars) because it isn't quite what you want yet or up to the standard you need.
OMG - Go read Adam Smith ... if you increase customers, you need more employees to make things and do services = less people on food stamps or welfare. Duh. The "Job Creators" have plenty of capital, what they don't have is customers (= demand) for which they will need to add more capacity (employees) ... It's the Capitalist cycle, and only Government can give it a big enough push to break the stagnation we're in ... The rich don't want to risk THEIR money ... so who will?
'Course you won't hear that on Fixed News, naturally.
CJW| 2.19.13 @ 4:58PM
Purpie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation
Albertus Magnus| 2.19.13 @ 6:58PM
Purp is a tiresome, dimwitted fool. He is ill-informed and unintelligent. He arrogantly insults and demeans without presenting any valid, intelligent arguments or facts. "Debating" purp is a waste of time as he is totally incapable of intelligent thought.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 7:02PM
Can't argue your point, can you, homo? LMAO
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 7:01PM
you're a retarded fool, and a stupid one at that...
Stan Redmond| 2.19.13 @ 9:20PM
I crap all over new technologies no one wants that taxpayers are paying for. You say read Adam Smith? Where does Adam Smith say you must steal tax dollars to give to cronies for technology that has failed time and time again (Solyndra, Tesla motors). Where did Adam Smith say in order to make crap technology work a federal bureaucrat must make the cheap alternatives just as expensive (Gas fired electricity Vs. Windmills)
You can't be as naive as this last statement you made. "Only the government can give it a big enough push to break the stagnation." Are you really this stupid? Do you really have that much faith in federal overlord central planners that will take your money and give it to people you don't like who make things you don't want.
By the way. Does your Fortune 10 company take any actions to lower the taxes paid?
spike59| 2.20.13 @ 5:48AM
to answer your question-yes, purpie really IS that stupid; he's in the Debbie Wasserman Schultz Zone of "Weapons-Grade Stupid"
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:38PM
The US defense budget has never reached $1,000,000,000,000 a year even with Iraq and Afghanistan included. Idiot.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ur-charts/
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 3:43PM
Try again, fool..
Your own Republican buddy, Ron Paul says it all the time, by the time you add up everything .. it is.
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:40PM
I wish the defense budget was 80% of the federal budget. If the federal government would stop doing all the things it is not empowered to do under the Constitution we could get there tomorrow.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 3:44PM
If it weren't empowered to do it, why is it doing it?
Because you are wrong. You and yours don't LIKE what it does, but it isn't Unconstitutional. That's the latest Right Wing fad, but untrue.
CJW| 2.19.13 @ 4:58PM
Purpie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation
Stan Redmond| 2.19.13 @ 9:14PM
The federal government has no obligation or business in the welfare industry. Charities have done better lifting people out of poverty than any government program.
National defense IS a constitutionally mandated function of the federal government and the jobs provided with military budgets actually produce jobs and lead to new innovative technologies. Welfare leads to more and more poverty and welfare addiction.
Stevemmn| 2.20.13 @ 12:16AM
You mean the Democrat crash of 2008. And none of your comments have anything to do with the electric car boondoggle.
donserge| 2.19.13 @ 8:27AM
The head of Russia's space agency stated that the Star Wars program was a major factor in destruction of the Soviet Union.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 1:58PM
What's your point?
Billions to create an electric car industry would eliminate our need for foreign oil - are you saying one is worth it, the other is not?
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:30PM
You assume electric cars work which they don't. The Keystone Pipeline as well as domsetic drilling would eliminate our need for overseas sources of oil. And those are tried and true technologies, not pipedreams like electric cars.
BTW, do you drive a Tesla, an all electric Leaf, a Volt or an all electric Prius?
Al Adab| 2.19.13 @ 3:36PM
What will we use to generate all the electricity those electric cars will need every night?
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:38PM
Windmill! A windmill on every car! Then as you drive down the road the wind you produce will recharge your batteries! It is a perpetual motion machine!
Al Adab| 2.19.13 @ 4:21PM
Ach du liber. Gott sie dank. Dumph von mir.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 7:03PM
How about fuel cells? Or do you dis those too? LMAO ... You belong with the Republican Party ...
Stevemmn| 2.20.13 @ 12:18AM
You fool!!! He asked what we would use to generate energy. Fuel cells don't generate energy. They only store energy, it still has to be generated somewhere. Doesn't the left wing media tell you people anything??
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 3:45PM
It took 30 years to get Star Wars this far - and you blame the electric car industry for not being perfect in 3 years? Puhlease... get a clue.
CJW| 2.19.13 @ 4:59PM
Purpie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation
Albertus Magnus| 2.19.13 @ 7:00PM
THREE years? People have been SERIOUSLY working on electric cars for over 120 years! And it STILL is not a viable technology.
Frank Drackman| 2.19.13 @ 9:06AM
Fuck you Purp, I'll complain about what I want to complain about, and if you try and come in my house, I'll shoot you with a gun the government knows nothing about, cause I bought it in 1986 from a guy who looked like Sonny Crockett...
And how many Russian Nukes made it through???? Hmmmmm?????
Dumb Ass
Frank
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 2:02PM
Fine, a drone with your name on it is targeting you right now... good luck with it. Idiot lowlife.
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 10:59AM
Except for the 24 times it has worked.
http://www.mda.mil/news/gallery_aegis.html
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 2:03PM
Gee, then we don't have to worry no mo', huh? Idiot.
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:31PM
Wow. Your insightful comment has changed my mind. Your right "the "Star Wars" boondoogle that has never worked in 30 years". These 24 succesful test are just like the moon landings. Never happened.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 3:47PM
Didn't say that ..
but they aren't good enough to protect us 100%, so goes the electric car as far as complete - so we should ditch them both, right?
That's not reality in innovation and invention... go learn something.
Occam's Tool| 2.21.13 @ 11:52PM
My IC engine works 100% of the time in driving me to work.
And the Soviets fell 100%, as well, in 1989, without violence.
Dave Williams| 2.19.13 @ 11:14AM
Sorry, moron, the type of missile-intercept technology you snarky brain-dead libs dismiss as "Star Wars" HAS in fact actually worked...does the phrase "Iron Dome" ring a bell (I thought not). By contrast, electric cars are just a small step in plausibility above a perpetual-motion machine. But because you immature numbskulls really, really, REALLY want it to work, of course it will.....
.....NOT!
Back to your basement, troll.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 2:15PM
It still only 80-90% effective, tool, and the technology is billions and billions of dollars wasted in the making.
The point was, it's worth the investment in the long run to go electric. You squabble about 500 million, but don't worry about tens of billions?
And an investment by the Senile Ol' Ronnie still isn't effective.
SUBVET| 2.19.13 @ 12:23PM
Purp..........as usual you don't know all the facts...."Star Wars" was also a way to control the global money market through the IMF/World Bank.
Look it up........
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 2:16PM
Oh, ic, more power grab for the rich... at the cost of taxpayers tens of billiions... yeah, that seems worth it - Thanks Ronald the Clown.
CJW| 2.19.13 @ 5:01PM
Purpie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:33PM
How do you think Soros made all his money? People think it was devaluing the English Pound but that was just the cover story. He and Armand Hammer were in it together. Of course, the Pope and the Illuminati got their share to.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 3:48PM
Where do you get this crap - Daily Caller or Drudge?
JmsA| 2.19.13 @ 12:53PM
What do you mean it didn't work? It surely did, for it scared the Russians, as did the deployment of the (tactical) Pershing II missiles, which finally awakened them from their delusion they'd be able to impose their failed socialist utopia on the rest of the World.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 2:18PM
It was economics, not military that destroyed the Soviet Union.
It was our middle class that was able to show the Russian people what they were missing and they demanded goods and services. Russia couldn't afford both - guns and butter.
Ronald the Clown just presided over the time it all occurred - actually it was during Bush Daddy's term, so Ronnie was swept along like the rest with history.
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:34PM
So why do you want to follow the same centralized planning economic model that brought the Soviet Union down? Unless you wna the United States to go the way of the USSR.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 7:06PM
Never said I believed in Central planning - but you do...
Karl Rove is controlling Republican Central Committee planning, now isn't he? You say you don't believe in it, but you let the Koch Bros, Sheldon Adelson and Karl Rove plan your entire agenda and ALEC to plan all legislation in this country for you... Are you really ignorant of all of that? You're more the Marxist/Socialist than anyone on the left - and you don't even know it. LMAO.
Curtis Rasmussen| 2.19.13 @ 1:31PM
And where does the energy come from to charge these cars? Unicorns on treadmills and pixie farts?
Get a clue, Purp. The energy generally comes from traditional power, including fuel power plants.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 2:20PM
No shit, sherlock - from U.S. Electric production, which is not 100% derived from oil, foreign oil - but gasoline is.
It's a national security issue - how long you think the Saudis will have cash for terrorists without oil revenue?
Ya think they will sell the sand?
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:41PM
Burn more coal!
Curtis Rasmussen| 2.19.13 @ 3:45PM
For a quisling like yourself it never was about national security and it never will be. It's about eliminating fossil fuel and nuclear energy from the planet. You'd rather see the U.S. as a solar and wind powered economic basket case beholden to a world that refuses to follow your dictates.
Do you really believe that electric cars will reduce demand for fossil fuels? If so, then you're even more stupid than your posts imply.
Now go back to your unicorns and pixie farts and leave serious discourse to the adults.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 7:08PM
Don't tell me what matters to me - you couldn't possibly understand what I do.
I never said anything about reducing demand for fossil fuels, just foreign oil... you do know that difference don't you?
Now go crawl back up Rush Limbaugh's a** and get a good sniff of your God.
Curtis Rasmussen| 2.20.13 @ 12:17AM
What? Did I hurt your feelings, clown?
You're right. I don't understand how you can hold your head up high as you cash your entitlement check. Pull your head out of your ass, get a job, and learn how the real world works.
Reply if you must, this is the end of discourse with you. I'm not wasting any more of my precious time.
SUBVET| 2.19.13 @ 4:26PM
Here we go.....purp again you talk llike a man with a paper "a@@hole".
No facts just BS.....
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 7:09PM
You deal in facts? Really? When did that happen? Is the President a citizen? Is Osama Bin Laden really dead? LMAO
CJW| 2.19.13 @ 5:00PM
Purpie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation
Stan Redmond| 2.19.13 @ 9:15PM
Star wars didn't work? Ask Boris Yeltzen and Mikhail Gorbachav about that USSR idea. Reagan said it right. "We win, they lose."
FETOAU| 2.19.13 @ 11:16PM
Purp,
It is a damn shame that you never pose an argument worthy of a rebuttal.
I am asking myself why am I wasting my time posting this. The only answer that comes to mind is that I am tired of you taking up space in the comments.
I don't know what you are paid to post your drivel, but whatever it is, even if it is nothing -- you are overpaid.
Occam's Tool| 2.21.13 @ 11:48PM
I seem to recall that the Soviet Union fell, Purp. Due to Reagan.
Frank Drackman| 2.19.13 @ 8:24AM
Hey Homos, heard you missed me I'm back...
Took the Miss-iz down to Panama City for a little Pre-Spring-Break Weekend...
Took the 08'ZO6 that I paid cash for, from a newly divorced Shylock, trying to avoid Bankruptcy, it was so Sweet, and right as cash was exchanged for title, the Blue Angels flew over(OK it was 2o minutes later, makes a better story)
Anyway, I'm a slow poke for Georgia, kept it to 85 on the way down, maybe up to 95 if a pack went by ahead of me..
26.2 mpg...
thats better than my wifes Nazi mo-bile..
No wonder the Nazis lost the war, a 400+HP V8 beats a straight 6(whats so great about straight 6's anyway, thats what my Grandmas Dodge Dart had)
Frank
JoeS| 2.19.13 @ 8:35AM
In the battle between ideology and wishful thinking against the laws of physics and chemistry, bet on physics and chemistry.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 2:21PM
You got it.
c. j. acworth| 2.19.13 @ 8:48AM
Practical electric vehicles are just around the corner.
And always will be.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 2:22PM
Yeah that's what they said about combustion engines, until Henry Ford arrived ...
Every new invention is ridiculed, the telephone was, the first autos were, nothing new here, except you haven't learned that progress moves forward, not backward.
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 3:42PM
Except that electric cars are 100 years old and still suck. Works for golf carts, that's about it.
Moe Blotz| 2.19.13 @ 4:42PM
The Stanley brothers made steam powered automobiles feasible as well 100 years ago, but the advance of technology favoured the otto cycle internal combustion engine and left steam behind.
Purp| 2.19.13 @ 7:10PM
Until oil is too costly or runs out... or are you an ostrich too?
FETOAU| 2.19.13 @ 11:42PM
Purp,
More drivel. But at least you have posted a posit.
This same argument was presented to me in the Cosmos Club thirty-five years ago.
My reply was simple -- I have enough confidence in man's ingenuity that when that time comes, and I don't expect it for a long while, I am not going to worry about it.
Time has proven me correct. Oil and gas that could not be economically extracted at the time is routinely being done so today.
The primary issue of energy costs today is political not technical. You and your ilk oppose any and all solutions to low cost energy.
You, and folks who think like you, are the problem
CJW| 2.19.13 @ 5:00PM
Purpie the Village Idiot posted:
1. "Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."
2. purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.
3. In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.
4. Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born.
5. purpie believes that a 20% cut in the tax rate will INCREASE his 0% rate to 8%.
Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation
Albertus Magnus| 2.19.13 @ 7:01PM
Actually, they never said that about the internal combustion engine. Never.
c. j. acworth| 2.19.13 @ 8:48AM
Practical electric vehicles are just around the corner.
And always will be.
spike59| 2.20.13 @ 6:00AM
the only problem is, they don't have enough range to make it to the corner...
spike59| 2.20.13 @ 6:00AM
the only problem is, they don't have enough range to make it to the corner...
John Navratil| 2.19.13 @ 9:03AM
Strictly speaking the headlights and air conditioning in a gasoline car ARE powered by the gasoline as well. The heat is, however, free.
John Navratil| 2.19.13 @ 9:03AM
Strictly speaking the headlights and air conditioning in a gasoline car ARE powered by the gasoline as well. The heat is, however, free.
Frank Drackman| 2.19.13 @ 9:27AM
you mean its not invisible little elves running through the wires??
At least thats how my mom explained E-lec-tricity to me...
Frank
Biff| 2.19.13 @ 10:20AM
hey - at least the circulating fan is "green"...
Maxwell| 2.19.13 @ 9:43AM
I have a simple question, really I do. Just how many of those electric cars are charged from coal fired generator plants? Now, if you charge your environmentally friendly car with electricity generated from a coal fired plant, just what is the benefit? Please don't tell me it is all about jobs created or saved.
chriser| 2.19.13 @ 9:45AM
The author of this column might want to make sure he is lawyered up - it's an open secret that Elon Musk has 3 sets of lawyers: one set to sue his ex-wife, one set to sue his employees, and one set to sue anyone who dares criticize either Tesla or SpaceX (his other taxpayer supported enterprise).
John - The Mighty Fahvaag| 2.19.13 @ 9:52AM
Ah the joys of car ownership... just off the phone with the dealer (good one... actually honest... great shop) going to be short of $1000 to fix up the little chumpy things that happen to a six year old minivan with 130,000 miles on it.
Funny, that minivan has taken that "test drive" to central Connecticut (inlaws live near New Haven... I am on the American side of DC.) and we don't go through the cesspool that is New York City. Funny thing is that we do it on one full tank of gas. That's a 3.6 liter V6 running at I95/Jersey Turnpike/Merritt Parkway real world speeds... And we end up at the in-laws' house with one fill up and 3/4's a tank of gas for putting around.
I saw Musk's refutation of the article - knowing the road, and knowing the way the traffic moves and what was expected by Musk's fellow con men... I had to laugh. The writer at 45 mph on the Jersey Turnpike wouldn't have had to worry too much about the recharging stations. He'd have been flattened by an old lady driving a Buick.
Electric cars are a complete nonsense unless someone comes up with a reliable fuel cell technology that replaces batteries at the range and operating efficiency of an internal combustion engine. PERIOD.
r/TMF
John - The Mighty Fahvaag| 2.19.13 @ 10:22AM
BTW - The trip (which has been taken no fewer than 10 times back and forth) takes about 6 and a half hours, and that includes the stop for a fill up on the Merritt Parkway and a trip to the necessary.
I am still trying to figure out how anyone can even come close to justifying a hotel stay on a road trip between DC and central Connecticut. That's pretty pricey stuff... I could fill up twice for the price of a hotel room on the route.
Stupid is as stupid does, I s'pose.
Biff| 2.19.13 @ 10:18AM
Electric vehicles are great! I have a 1996 E-Z-Go that can still get in 18 holes on a charge. Of course, I just paid $2400 for new batteries, but I can't take my Chevy on the golf course - where electric vehicles belong.
RAM| 2.19.13 @ 10:32AM
Wait a moment! Only reactionaries think cars are to get somewhere with dispatch, without hassle. Cars are really to make their drivers feel greenly virtuous, despite their not being ready yet to ditch private travel in favor of mass transit. Ultimately, the failure of these electric toys combined with the government's effort to spike the price of gasoline are expected to move people towards mass transit, however inconvenient. There, on the light rail or whatever, they can be exposed to muzak and posters lauding our wonderful leaders.
markenoff| 2.19.13 @ 10:45AM
Just turned my 2001 Pontiac Grand Am over 200,000. Still get 27 MPH on highway and I can fit a car seat in it an luggage for a weekend with my wife and daughter.
Albertus Magnus| 2.19.13 @ 11:11AM
"Automobile" magazine named the Tesla S its 2013 "Automobile of the year." So much for "Automobile" magazine. I was so incensed I tossed that issue in the trash without opening the cover. I will let my subscription expire.
About 60% of electrical generation in the US is from burning coal. So, every Tesla, every Leaf, and every Volt, are all 60% Coal Powered. And Mr. Bozo in the White House wants to shut down coal power plants, further driving up the cost of electricity. [Sidebar: Why are we switching to fluorescent and L.E.D. lights to save electricity, if we are just supposed to consume vastly more electricity with electric cars? Just asking.]
I see "purp" is back with his trademarked non-sequiturs. Strategic Defense was not a boondoggle, many technologies developed for it are in use today, both in defense and commercially, and it was instrumental in bringing down the Evil Empire of the Soviet Union (perhaps THAT'S why purp is incensed at SDI, it helped defeat his Communist heroes in Moscow.) Plus, national defense IS a Constitutionally authorized expenditure, subsidizing Tesla is not. But purp would never understand that since he is a demonstrable idiot.
Lastly, if electric cars were truly "the future" of driving, they wouldn't NEED to be subsidized. Simple economics.
Kingofthenet| 2.19.13 @ 1:24PM
Broder ran a hack piece, said he was going 45,said he was freezing, fortunately the smart people at Tesla had monitoring equipment in the car.
Curtis Rasmussen| 2.19.13 @ 1:36PM
No, kingofthenuts, he amply illustrates the impracticality of current battery technology.
If anyone wants hack arguments, perform a search for 'Kingofthenet'
Curtis Rasmussen| 2.19.13 @ 1:36PM
No, kingofthenuts, he amply illustrates the impracticality of current battery technology.
If anyone wants hack arguments, perform a search for 'Kingofthenet'
Rick Z| 2.19.13 @ 1:29PM
Li-Ion batteries (Lithium Ion) heat up and catch fire when things are not perfect.
A few years ago, laptop computers were experiencing fires, and there were numerous battery recalls.
Right now, the entire fleet of Boeing's 787 Dreamliners - their latest and greatest - sits on the ground because of battery fires. They're still trying to figure out exactly what the conditions for failure are.
Given the abuse that cars take -- winter salt, collisions, pot holes, road objects striking the underside of the car -- batteries in electric cars appear to be exposed to failure.
Fire can French-Fry you, or merely cause distracted driving (think "arms flailing to beat out flames"). Being stranded in snow, ice, desert heat, crime ridden places is also dangerous.
Battery technology has only had minor improvements in the past decade or two.
John Navratil| 2.19.13 @ 5:37PM
Rick Z,
My brother builds Li-Ion battery packs that sit in 4000 meters of water at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. Of course weight isn't much of a problem to him. Methinks these batteries can be protected from the elements. Heat management is the safety problem, but otherwise these are pretty terrific batteries.
Job| 2.19.13 @ 1:33PM
mebbe if Tesla generators could be built the Tesla car would be viable. just around the corner.
Job| 2.19.13 @ 1:54PM
wonder if I could get a grant for cold fusion...
Albertus Magnus| 2.19.13 @ 4:00PM
It's just around the corner, I believe.
cicero| 2.19.13 @ 2:25PM
This whole movement for alternative fuels got its start under Carter (that should tell you all you need to know), when it was decided that the world was running out of petroleum, and cars were polluting the environment. Since then, we have discovered that the world is floating on the stuff - the U.S. is sitting on 300 years worth of it just on shore - and cars today produce less pollutants running down thehighway than cars did sistting in the driveway with the engine off in 1972. So, what is the justification of pissing away the taxpayers' money on these boondoggles, and bankrupting the citizenry by trying to tax them out of their transportation?
Our elite, who have taken over the government, have decided that we must all ride in public transportation, live in highrise apartments in central locations, and support them in the manner that, unfortunately, they have become accustomedd to. On the other hand, they will ride in limousines, live in gated communities, and avoid us at all costs. The aristocracy of the beaurocracy is overwhelming what was once dreamed of as the paradise of the common man. How sad.
Albertus Magnus| 2.19.13 @ 4:01PM
We have become Rome.
RJ| 2.19.13 @ 4:14PM
I live nearby a Tesla dealership and have seen two Teslas on the road, one was a dealer demo car. I understand the novelty of an all-electric car, but they just aren't practical for a number of reasons. In California, there is concern about supporting the electric grid in the few wealthy neighborhoods were people are likely to own electric plug-in cars, because it wont' take much to overcome the grid.
There are some great energy developments in our future, but probably they are still more than a decade away. Major break-throughs on electrical storage have been tough to come by. Also, I recall that some of the major automobile manufacturers thought they would have a fuel-cell powered car on the market about 10 years ago. These changes are just tougher than most people think.
John Navratil| 2.19.13 @ 5:33PM
RJ,
I'm agnostic on electric vehicles. All vehicles must fit the mission. I, personally, think Tesla misses the mission, although the electric milk trucks in London in the 60's seemed to work just fine.
That said, a fleet of electric cars plugged into the grid during the peak hours of the day could provide that peak capacity at the point of demand, thereby helping the grid.
RJ| 2.19.13 @ 7:00PM
Hi John,
I wish we had more agnostics regarding electric cars and other issues. Whenever I see a Prius, it usually appears that the driver is practicing a new form of religion rather than being practical.
Hopefully, you are not in California where we have a religion called the environment. People practice their faith by using government to impose their will on how others live. Nothing is left alone. No plastic bags for groceries. Restrict development. Prohibit electric plants, but drive electric cars and of course, global warming. There is little or no concern if the threatened harm is real. What is important is that one is making a statement in harmony with the other followers.
John Navratil| 2.19.13 @ 7:36PM
RJ,
I live in Houston. Cali is a pleasure to visit, but what you recount is why it's not for me. Unfortunately, the Cali infection appears to be heading my way.
Stan Redmond| 2.19.13 @ 9:25PM
I need a $450 million dollar federal loan to study the effects of placing windmills on top of my Tesla car. If I had this money I could figure out how many windmills I will have to use to charge the battery while I'm driving. And the faster I drive the more power. It's like free energy. I saw it on the internet and this technology exists Barack Obama's magical dreamland.
Stevemmn| 2.20.13 @ 12:54AM
"The colder it is, the shorter your range will be. "
Conversely, the hotter it is the shorter your battery life will be. I live in Arizona where it hits 110 degrees in the summer, and you're lucky if you can get a car battery to last for 3 years before it has to be replaced. The only good thing is that batteries usually fail under warranty and you get a discount on a new one.
Maybe the newer technologies like lithium-ion last longer in the heat. But when you have to shell out $10,000 for a battery pack I won't be taking any chances.
homme nike air max BW | 2.20.13 @ 1:27AM
and if it’s dark out, you’ll be burning headlights longer — which also means burning juice. Which you have a finite amount of.
hrgfue | 2.20.13 @ 2:32AM
Kickoff to you with the online store 2013
Occam's Tool| 2.21.13 @ 11:50PM
I live in Northern MN. No 'lectric cars for me. I drive a GMC Sierra in the Winter.