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Capitol Ideas
Islam and Islamism in the Modern World
An interview with Daniel Pipes.
(Page 4 of 4)
DP: I offer three simple guidelines. One, always oppose the Islamists. Like fascists and Communists, they are the totalitarian enemy, whether they wear long beards in Pakistan or suits in Washington.
Two, always support the liberal, modern, secular people who share our worldview. They look to us for moral and other sustenance; we should be true to them. They are not that strong, and cannot take power soon anywhere, but they represent hope, offering the Muslim world’s only prospect of escape from the dreary dichotomy of dictatorship or extremism.
Three, and more difficult, cooperate with dictators but condition it on pushing them toward reform and opening up. We need the Mubaraks of the world and they need us. Fine, but relentlessly keep the pressure on them to improve their rule. Had we begun this process with Abdullah Saleh of Yemen in 1978 or with Mubarak in 1981, things could have been very different by 2011. But we didn’t.
TB: Egypt might be the test case.
DP: Well, it’s a bit late. Mohammed Morsi is not a greedy dictator but he emerged from the Muslim Brotherhood, and his efforts since reaching power have been purely Islamist.
TB: What about the recent elections?
DP: I do not believe that a single one of the elections and referenda in Egypt was fairly conducted. It surprises me that Western governments and media are so gullible on this score.
TB: You could say we were supporting the democracy element in Cairo’s Tahrir Square. Were we not?
DP: Yes and rightly so. The initial demonstrations of early 2011 were spearheaded by the liberals and seculars who deserve U.S. support. But they got quickly pushed aside and Washington barely paid them further attention.
TB: We gave foreign aid to Mubarak. Was that a bad idea?
DP: That aid dates back to the utterly different circumstances of the Egypt-Israel peace treaty of 1979 and became progressively more wrong-headed. It should long ago have been discontinued. More broadly, I believe in aid for emergencies (soup and blankets) and as a bribe, but not for economic development. That the Obama administration is contemplating aid, including military hardware, to the Morsi government outrages me.
About the Author
Tom Bethell is a senior editor of The American Spectator and author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Science, The Noblest Triumph: Property and Prosperity Through the Ages, and most recently Questioning Einstein: Is Relativity Necessary? (2009).
nathan| 2.8.13 @ 6:44AM
How many times did we see "democracy" mentioned here? My one and only comment is this: Find me a single quote by any of the Founders, JUST ONE, in praise of that form of government. I'll settle for one. Explain to me if you will why modern day "conservatives" whatever they are, talk in terms of "democracy" a form of government our Founding Fathers, the people who built this country, the people who established the principles on which this country was based, the principles that I would argue should be at the heart of modern day conservatism, why do "conservatives" continually as we see here keep mentioning the "D" word that those same Founding Fathers universally detested? Would someone care to educate me on this since I simply am mystified at why I continue to see it. Mr. Bethell if you read this, please explain the use of "democracy" in these pages, again a form of government the Founders universally detested. And no sir, democracy and republic are not synonyms and cannot be used interchangeably. Not in the least.
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 7:31AM
Wow. I didn't think you had it in ya.
These people - The one's who constantly use the D Word - have fallen in to the Trap. After years and years of the Public Schools, and the Democrat Talking Points Dissemblers in the MSM constantly repeating The Big Lie, it has become "The Truth". A least, it's being taken for The Truth. And, there's no greater example of it, than the Attack - by the Left - on the Electoral College.
They WANT Democracy. For, what is Democracy, if not MOB RULE?
And, as everybody knows....The Left Controls the Mobs. The Left Pays the Mobs to show up. The Left IS the Mob.
Congratulations, nathan. You are no longer a member of the Despisedaratzi. You have ascended to Broken Clock Status.
Like: Jack. (Pick one)
nathan| 2.8.13 @ 7:47AM
sir: I adhere to the principles of the Founders, at all times, not just when it's convenient. I don't tolerate any abuse of the Constitution from left OR RIGHT. I don't believe that "good intentions" justifies bad behavior. People like Sean, and maybe you? perhaps? seem to think that when Germany or Japan torture people it's evil because they are evil and their intentions are evil. But let us do the EXACT same action, and almost like a catholic sacrament some how our "goodness" our good intentions transforms that actions into something noble something good because WE are good. Bloody nonsense of course. The Bible is correct. By their actions and their actions alone we shall know them. Do evil and I'm sorry you are evil whatever your motives are. Take Bush. He did almost the exact same things this guy does, totally ignores the Constitution, passes a health care bill (Plan D), stimulus, all of it, violation of civil liberties (Padilla) and yet no one accused him of being part of some vast left wing conspiracy, of being a communist, socialist, all of it. His actions, if criticized, tended to be explained away. "Conservatives" like Ryan voted for his stuff. But let this guy do almost the EXACT same actions and everyone starts talking apocalyps. But there was no difference. Actions and actions alone count not "intentions."
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 8:39AM
If it were me? I wouldn'ta Waterboarded any of'em.
I'd've had them Skinned Alive, till I got the Information. That would take about two seconds.
They just finished MURDERING 3,000 Innocent Americans.
Payback's a Bitch, nathan.
Perhaps, next time, when it's your Family jumping off the top of a Skyscraper, to escape being Burned Alive, you'll get down offa your Sanctimonious High Horse, and realize how Stupid you sound.
We FIREBOMBED Dresden and Tokyo, and Incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hundreds of Thousands were Burned Alive. Men, Women, and CHILDREN. But, that's okay. As long as nobody had Water poured on a Towel that was over their face, while a Doctor was standing righ there, in case there was a problem.
That's where nathan draws the line.
And if they keep coming back, and keep killing our people by the Thousands?
That's fine by nathan. As long as we hold claim to the Moral Highground.
Obviously, people don't understand the meaning of: The Constitution is not a Suicide Pact. (Unless there's a Republican President)
Redfray | 2.8.13 @ 12:05PM
Tokyo did bomb our nation first. We had better technology than they did. Maybe the Japanese should have considered the American knowledge before stricking the first blow? Why didn't they give-up after the first bomb? War plays by different rules than the non-war political thinking. America has lost many good soldiers taking up for other ungracious countries. I don't think America has an obligation to feed the world. For sure, America is on it's way down.
nathan| 2.9.13 @ 10:00PM
Sir: "The Constitution is not a suicde pact" is bloody unadulterated complete NONSENSE. Assuming you consider yourself a "conservative" and given that in the past you've open advocated genocide that's questionable, show a quote from any of the Founders that supports anything you've ever posted. I'll settle for one. I quote Madison all the time. Name me one time, just once, when you've quoted anyone but yourself. I cite books like Torture and Impunity, Ghost Plane and others, what books do YOU read? I'm sorry sir, but as I just said and read what I say "carefully" good intentions do not magically transform evil actions into good actions especially since we know from multiple sources the Canadian we sent to Syria to be tortured and was innocent was not the exception, he was the rule. Most of the people in our custody were INNOCENT. You get that? You are proposing torturing and abusing mostly innocent people like West did. Again provide a quote from a single Founder that supports that policy.
And quit throwing Dresden at me. Max Hastings in "Bomber Command" (I really do read a lot, obviously a LOT more than you) made it clear that area bombing was VERY controversial. The morality of it WAS questioned and we can question it now and should. But also, times have changed. What was maybe acceptable 70 years ago, isn't acceptable now and don't mistake what we do from the air with what we do when we have someone in our custody, that's comparing apples to whales.
nathan| 2.9.13 @ 10:09PM
And what you and others simply do not understand is that besides being totally completely illegal, immoral, unconstitutional, against our principles, all of this, torture DOESN'T WORK. The pentagon says so. You almost never get reliable actionable intelligence from it. Again ask West how successful HE was. 24 was a TV show not real life. When a reporter went to Israel and asked if torturing people had stopped a single attack, THEY couldn't name one. So explain to the class if you will why you continue to support methods that don't work and cause more deaths than they save. In Iraq actions like you support created so many new enemies who went and killed so many more Americans that the estimate is the numbers were equal to 911. Now that's real smart. Doing what you and others support make things worse not better. Read again the transcripts from the Inquisition. "Did you fly through the air with the devil?" "Hell yes now will you quit hurting me." THAT is what you get from from torturing people. Do it right, like our unit in the Pacific that never laid a hand on Japanese POW's, and you find out your codes have been compromised. Do it right like the Luftwaffe unit and you shoot down more bombers. But do it your way and more Americans get killed.
JohnLeo| 2.8.13 @ 3:06PM
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:47PM
So, Nathan, no one should go to extremes to save you, your family, or your relatives.
Review Lincoln and his comment about purgatives. As TLP and I have pointed out, our kids are worth more to us than the life or freedom of a mass murdering scumbag. In addition, it is important to realize that some situations are gray, not black and white.
Absolute logics tend to lead one to absolute foolishness.
nathan| 2.9.13 @ 10:20PM
Read my comments to your friend here. And no, I won't violate my principles to save my family. In part because unlike you two I know that the methods you support DON'T WORK. If you bother reading McCoy's book, you really would know that. And tell me again if you will sir how we justify hanging people for doing what you two support at war crimes trials, and then turn around and do the EXACT SAME THING to people we capture. And don't give me the, they're not in uniform nonsense. Geneva doesn't recognize the illegal c0mbatant concept. Yoo made that up and the JAGS disagreed. But again, you're just making a "good intentions" argument. When the nazis were killing those jews at Babi Yar, they thought they were defending their kids too. You know perfectly well, both of you, that every genocidal act in the last century was justified by their perpetrators with the "best of intentions". And how many innocent people are both of you willing to torture to "maybe" get at the one guy who "might" have something useful? 80 percent or more of the detainees at all of the camps, GITMO, Bagram and others didn't belong there. When we systematically abuse them we don't save American lives we endanger them by creating more enemies who then kill more Americans. Look at VN. Calley's men were raping and murdering young girls weeks before Mai Lai. How did that further our cause there? And they were more the norm than the exception.
nathan| 2.9.13 @ 10:33PM
We cannot go around talking about how great we are, about "American exceptionalism", about what wonderful people we are and then send the Canadian to the Syria to be tortured. People abroad look at that, listen to what we say, then look at how we act and say BS! They ask, correctly how are we different than the people you two rant and rave about. Tell the class here, acting as you propose, HOW ARE WE DIFFERNT? And they justify the beheadings and the tower attacks with good intentions too.
NO. We don't violate our principles. EVER. Not if you're a consevative you don't. You don't cross lines like you pr0pose because when you do, genocide is just a few steps away. We know that because the Holcaust didn't happen overnight.
And I'm sorry I am NOT going to be Martin Neimollor here. I simply am not. He was silent, I refuse to be. (Google him and his famous quote.)
Defend the country, YES. But what you two and others like you are proposing and defending weakens the country, it does not defend it.
nathan| 2.9.13 @ 10:40PM
Now again if either of you care to quote Madison or another Founder in support of the actions you defend, BE MY GUEST. I make reference to all sorts of books, cite others if you will. (Neither of you ever do.) Otherwise, quit attacking me personally. I do my homework. Let the rest of you do yours.
And finally is support of torture among other things a "conservative" position? Is it? Make a "conservative" case for it because I can't. And do you support "enhanced interrogation for criminal suspects here too? I can make a wonderful "good intentions" argument for that too. I mean you can't let that evil wicked man go free can you? He might kill my kid right? The same EXACT argument for torturing detainees, one american life, my kid, all of it, well it applies domestically too right? But didn't Biden just make the exact same argument for gun control? He said, if it might have saved ONE kid at Newtown. Well gee sir, that kid could have yours. You see, he has the best of intentions too . . .
Rhoetus| 2.10.13 @ 8:04PM
Just remember what H L Mencken said: "Every election in an advance auction sale of stolen goods."
Jack in Wi| 2.8.13 @ 7:32AM
Islam was a backwater until England and France went in there and stirred things up. Israel has made more radical Muslims then anything else. If Israel was a true integrated country with equal civil and religious rights for all, it could be a light unto the nations. Instead it's racism and hate have made the Middle East a hell hole. The Saudi's have spread much radical Islam aroud the world. The Israeli's add fuel to the fire. Secular regimes have the best conditions for Christians. Pre WW2 Palistine, Hussain's Iraq, Assad's Syria, Mubarek's Egypt and Gaddafi's Libya had better conditions for Christians then anywhere else. Thanks to us they are gone and the Christians are under extreme duress. With allies like Saudi Arabia and Israel we need no enemies.
Jack in Wi| 2.8.13 @ 7:43AM
The Historan Richard Pipes once stated that without Communism Hitler and his movement were impossible. I agree and add without the fire and radical zeal of the Jewish Bolshivicks Communism was impossible. The disaster of Jewish Bolshivism, led to the disaster of Hitler. That led to a 50 year cold war. Now we are in a 20 year endless war with so called radical Islam. Radical Islam will die on the vine when we get the hell out of their lives. Dialoge and trade are the answers. They want our products and we want their oil. St Francis DeSales said." You can get more flies with a table spoon of honey then with a barrel of vinegar. Peace, trade, and honest dialoge are better then endless war for no sane reason. Peace is better then war.
Pecos Pete| 2.8.13 @ 8:06AM
Jack: I don't want their oil. I want oil produced in the USA. Oil independence for the USA.
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 12:13PM
Contest at William Tucker's Story.
It's right after Arnie's screed.
It's kind of a Contest "Lite".
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 8:19AM
They don't want Peace, Jack. They're the Religion of Blow You To Pieces. You should know that. Isn't your Sister in Law in Africa, being passed around amongst the group like a Hukkah Pipe, by her "Boyfriend" King Abracadabra, as we speak?
Oh, that's right. She's taken her Jungle Fever Act Stateside, these days. This Boyfriend sells Crack. (Hopefully, not hers)
You must be so proud.
Al Adab| 2.8.13 @ 8:43AM
Jack also forgets that from about 750 AD to 1200 AD Islam was the ascendant culture in the Eurasian ecumene. The tension between Western Civ and Islamic culture has long and deep historical roots.
While Islam claims a totalitarian control over all aspects of society, Western Civ realizes the sepration between religion, government and secular aspects of society. In Islam all are fused into Islamic culture. The call of the muezzin regulates the course of the day and courts resemble the inquisition more than the justice system in England and America.
It would take a book to outline the differences between the cultures but one need only look at which tradition better improves the material condition of the people while also providing the greatest security and liberty for all.
Jack in Wi| 2.8.13 @ 8:46AM
Baloney: The USA was very admired in the Arab and Muslim world. We sent educators and and businessmen who helped modernize the place. Even today they need us a lot more them we need them. The radicals arose because of our constant interference in their affairs. That is the reason we are hated. It has nothing to do with Islam. Stay out of their national affairs and get the troops home. Israel is going to have to learn how to live in the neighborhood in peace or it can go out of business. Jews lived with Muslims for 1300 years and were valuble members of their societies. Peace is and always has been the answer. Pat Buchanan has a column today available at Human Events and other sites about endless war. It makes many good points. You birds would do well to study it.
Al Adab| 2.8.13 @ 11:17AM
Jack:
Your anti-zionism gets in the way of analysis and while no fan of Israel myself (obviously) it would be most helpful to Islam and the world at large if their neighbors, including Gaza, were to decide on their own development and improvement and stop spending all their resources, time and energy hating a legitimate nation.
Look up the word dhimmi and you might want to read Hourani, A History of the Arab Peoples. Do be careful as you might learn something about the history of and competing traditions within Islam. Have a great day and try a little of that Irish wiskey at lunch.,
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 12:11PM
Contest at William Tucker's Story.
It's right after Arnie's screed.
It's kind of a Contest "Lite".
Jack in Wi| 2.8.13 @ 12:31PM
The whole Arab league offered the Israeli's a full peace treaty with full trading rights if they would get behind the, modified by negotiation, 1967 green line. The Israelis refuse to neogotiate. They want greater Israel. Their idea of peace is we get a piece of Lebanon, a piece of Syria, a piece of Iraq, a piece of Jordan, a piece of Egypt, and of course all of Palistine. Jews are less then 2% of the Middle East's population. Yet they want control of everything and tactical superiority for eternity. Why does a bankrupt USA want anything to do with this insanity?
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 4:49PM
Actually, Bill Clinton and the Israeli PM at the time, offered the Palestinians 90% of everything they wanted, including a State, and Half of Jerusalem for their Capitol, and they were Rewarded with an Intifada.
REMEMBER?
So, please.
Get your Facts straight.
Jack in Wi| 2.8.13 @ 6:16PM
Baloney TLP: that was nothing but propaganda. They have never negotiated in good faith. The Israelis are the dumbest of the dumb. What do you call people who go into a neighborhood and make it hell on earth and expect that they are going to be anything but hated? Sane Israelis are leaving in droves, over a million at least. Why is thsi disaster of a country any business of the USA? What is going to happen to the non Jewish majority in Israel Palestine? Is it going to be expelled or exterminated? The only answer is full integration with full equal civil and religious rights for all. There also should be vast reparations paid to the Palestinians for all the theft, murder, torture, and deniel of rights for the last 65 years.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:40PM
And they meant none of it.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:44PM
Palestine, Jack. Will you ever learn how to spell or think, child rape/mutilation supporter?
KennesawJack| 2.8.13 @ 7:46PM
Jack, one more time. If the 1967 borders weren't good enough for the camel f**kers then, why in the world would Israel buy into the notion they're good enough now? It's the old fool me once kinda thing. You need to get over your hatred for Israel. If ever, in the history of mankind, a people were entitled to a little peace, it's gotta be the Jews. Damn, man. Lighten up.
chuck| 2.9.13 @ 8:35AM
Jack will get over his hatred of Jews on the day he takes his eternal dirt nap...............hopefully soon.
For a man who claims to follow the "prince of peace", the Lord Jesus Christ, Jack sure is full of a lot of hatred.
loulou| 2.8.13 @ 9:12AM
Actually, we want them out of OUR lives. Why do they insist on coming to the US?
Jack in Wi| 2.8.13 @ 12:45PM
loulou: They come because we let them in. GW Bush was great for that one. You can't blame everything on Obama and Clinton. We have had terrible leadership for a quarter century. It's no wonder the country is in the toilet about to be flushed.
C. Vernon Crisler | 2.8.13 @ 9:34AM
Jewish Bolshivism. Been reading Mein Kampf again Jackboot in WI?
Jack in Wi| 2.8.13 @ 12:39PM
Not lately Chislor: It is a very well known and very true term used by many writers including Winston Churchill, one of your hero's, I believe? I have been practicing my very limited Yiddish vocabulary. I think these words fit some of the usual suspects.
Chislor=Schelmiel.
Occam=Schmuck
Dreak=Drek
Have a nice sabbath.
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 4:51PM
You spelled Schlemiel wrong.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:35PM
Schlemiel, scumbag.
Jack: Child rape and mutilation supporter.
Jack: Traitor.
Jack: Subhuman vermin.
Jack: moral and physical coward.
Jack: Nazi bastard.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:41PM
Scumbag refers to Jack, not my esteemed friend TLP. Sorry, Sir (to TLP).
Jack in Wi| 2.8.13 @ 5:59PM
Another Yiddish word for you Occam is putz. Have a happy sabbath.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:50PM
Israeli's is a possessive. Israelis is a plural.
It's OK to make a typo, but you misspell and use moronic grammar all the time, and always the same way. Didn't you ever get a Strunk and White?
Man, beauty is skin deep, but dumbass is all the way through, and you prove it every day, don't you, you Nazi bastard.
spike59| 2.11.13 @ 5:51AM
Jackboot in WI thinks Strunk & White is a new Keebler cookie
loulou| 2.8.13 @ 9:07AM
What's with all this "sir" business?
Sir this, sir that...
loulou| 2.8.13 @ 9:10AM
that was for nathan
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 12:12PM
Contest at William Tucker's Story.
It's right after Arnie's screed.
It's kind of a Contest "Lite".
Tom Kyba| 2.8.13 @ 12:13PM
That's because Nathan is a snob. He can't understand why no one else sees his genius. If he saw his neighbor being brutalized he would say(quietly and with respect), "ah c'mon, be nice". You'd need a firetruck lift ladder to get up to his high horse.
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 4:55PM
Or, maybe he's just polite?
I have Zero Problem being called: Sir.
As former Military, I call People Sir, and Ma'am all the time.
As a Villian in one of the Star Trek Next Generation episodes so eloquently put it: "There's never a good time for bad manners."
Indeed.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:35PM
TLP: have a good weekend, sir, and thanks for your service.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:43PM
I have no idea what Nathan means, but I mean politeness to show respect to a fantastic woman, my esteemed LouLou, gracious Madame.
CrackerHound| 2.8.13 @ 12:27PM
Well, isn't democracy a form of majority rules? We are a republic where we elect representatives who vote in the congress in our place and are balanced out by two other branches of government who all must follow a general set of rules designed to insure legislation does not infringe on some basic and fundamental freedoms.
We are a democracy in the sense that the power lies in the hands of the citizens and not a ruling class. We have a say in the decisions made.
Our founders took the concept of democracy and perfected it. We are not a true democracy (which is an oppresive system where freedoms and rights are not guaranteed).
Just as there are many different card games based on the rules and strategy of poker, we are a sort of offspring of the democracy concept. Correct me if I'm wrong.
markenoff| 2.8.13 @ 1:05PM
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 4:56PM
Indeed.
Bob K| 2.8.13 @ 8:42PM
Democracy is different in different countries. We cannot spread "American" democracy to other countries. It is not "one size fits all."
Tocqueville understood that and wrote about it. His first volume was mainly about Democracy IN AMERICA. His second volume, written 5 years later, was mainly about Democracy.
We have failed to understand that because we mindlessly accept Woodrow Wilson's slogan: "To make the world safe for democracy" as the main objective of our foreign policy. [The results of which bring to mind, uncomfortably so, George Orwell's phrase in "Coming Up For Air" of "streamlined men who think in slogans and talk in bullets".]
John Lukacs has suggested that perhaps the phrase should be reversed to "how to make democracy safe for the world?"
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 7:17AM
Well........that was boring. A history lesson on why Muslims are out of their Flucking minds. Which is like a history lesson about Tying One's Shoes.
Let me see if I get the Crib Notes, right?
They haven't done a Day's Work since they got their @sses handed to them by the Frankish King - Charles (The Hammer) Martel. They had Cordoba, till they ran it into the ground. Big deal. My Stepfather had a Cordova.
They don't MAKE anything. They haven't had an Idea that didn't involve Blowing Someone Up, since they were driving that Cordova up and down the Iberian Peninsula. They don't have any Schools, unless you count the University of Phoenix. No Inventions other than the Exploding Leisure Suit. No Great Hospitals. No Medical Discoveries. No Movies. No Poetry. No Theatre. Nuthin.
Their Women's Breasts are so filthy, that the Men(?) get Diarrhea, just thinking about'em. Maybe if they stopped dressing them like Ninjas, and weren't burying them up to their Armpits, in the back yard all the time, their Breasts wouldn't be so Rank? (If the Top a these Broads gives ya Diarrhea? What does the Bottom Half do?) Clearly, this explains all the "Most Beautiful Goat Pageants" and the Lipstick on the Camels.
Can anyone tell the Group ONE THING they Contribute to the Betterment of Mankind? (And no, Jack. Killing Jews only counts in YOUR Head)
Maxwell| 2.8.13 @ 8:02AM
Yes, I can, they scare the Dickens out of sheep! After that, not so much. TLP, nice start for the day.
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 12:12PM
Contest at William Tucker's Story.
It's right after Arnie's screed.
It's kind of a Contest "Lite".
Intelligent Design| 2.8.13 @ 8:12AM
The main goal of Islam and Muslims is to destroy freedom, including religious freedom and freedom of conscience. Islam is a 7th century totalitarian political ideology, not a religion. What "religion" imposes the death penalty for people who want to quit, resign, commit apostasy? Answer: Islam does.The best thing a Muslim can do is commit apostasy, but s(he) will have to be brave.
The essence of Islam is jihad. There have been more than 20,000 Muslim terrorist attacks since 9/11/01. Just last year about 12,000 people were killed by Muslim terrorists. Go to www.thereligionofpeace.com for history and daily updates.
There are almost no Jews left in the Muslim-dominated countries, and the Christian population is under 5%. Why? Because they have been attacked, driven out, terrorized, and killed. Muslims would be attacking churches and synagogues in the U.S. if there were more of them.
C. Vernon Crisler | 2.8.13 @ 9:35AM
Yes, I don't really see much of a difference between Islam and Islamism. The latter are simply being consistent with their ideology of violence.
Intelligent Design| 2.8.13 @ 11:40AM
Islamism and Islamist are words used by politicians, academics, the media and various writers to throw up a smoke screen, trying to make the general public think the problem lies only with "extremists", when in fact Islam is the problem. Islam is hostile and subversive to the Bill of Rights, the entire U.S. Constitution, and freedom everywhere.
CJW| 2.8.13 @ 5:35PM
I agree. The Muslim Brotherhood that started in Egypt in the 1920's promoted this Islamism. It became fused with the anti-colonialism following WWI, and now the anti-West, anti-Israel view.
Islam has always been at war with the West, and was defeated at every major battle, such as Vienna, Tours, and Lepanto. Islam expanded by the sword, any Jews and Christians residing in the Muslim nations were second class citizens, and had to bow to survive.
It is most dangerous now because of the oil money, especially the Saudis, funding the terrorists. Islam knows it cannot win a direct conventinal battle or war, as proven by their defeats by Isreael. So they put bombs on children, women, and young stupid men to explode in restaurants,hotels, etc.
And in addition to the anti-West, they have anti-semitism with Israel as their focus using words such as anti-Zionism. This is well described in Andrew McCarthy's "The Grand Jihad, How Islam and the Left Sabotage America."
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:36PM
Mr. Crisler: beautiful work. Have a good weekend. Sir.
markenoff| 2.8.13 @ 10:10AM
So, Mo the pedophile bandit (may he rot in hell) is out killing non-Mos and raping young boys when one of his buddies rides up on a camel.
"Hey Mo!", he says, "You better get back to your tent! One of your wives is leaving you!"
So Mo jumps on his camel and rides back to his tent. Sure enough, one of his wives has her bags packed and is ready to leave.
"What do you think you're doing?" Mo cries, "You can't leave me! I'm the prophet of al-illah, the ancient moon god of the Arabs!"
"I can't stay married to a pedophile!" she replies.
"Pedophile?" he says. "That's an awful big word for a nine year old. Now get back in that tent and unpack your toys!"
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 12:12PM
Contest at William Tucker's Story.
It's right after Arnie's screed.
It's kind of a Contest "Lite".
cicero| 2.8.13 @ 10:52AM
Seems to me that no one, other than African Americans, has ever converted to Islam voluntarily. They have always taken up the so-called religion as a result of conquest and coersion. They were somewhat advanced as long as they allowed Jews and Christians to attain positions of inportance in their courts, as doctors, scientists, lawyers, philosophers, etc. Those Jews and Christians who wanted to rise in the society, or didn't want to pay the tax, sometimes would ascribe to the Islamic faith. When the leaders of Islam drove the Jews and Christians out in about the 12th century, all intellectual advancement ceased. They have been static ever since. If the west would only stop selling them modern weapons, the devastation would stop. After all, your arm might get tired trying to cut peoples' heads off one at a time.
Al Adab| 2.8.13 @ 11:24AM
Cicero:
Many do convert by choice at least in the Western world. What is interesting, and demonstrates very clearly the difference in the two cultural traditions, is that under Islam, conversion to Christianity is a crime while under Christendom conversion to Islam is not, even though it may be considered apostasy by various churches.
TLP| 2.8.13 @ 12:13PM
Contest at William Tucker's Story.
It's right after Arnie's screed.
It's kind of a Contest "Lite".
KyMouse| 2.10.13 @ 5:50PM
The interdenominational ministry Voice of the Martyrs has a map giving info about countries in which Christian converts are persecuted. You can click on the map's countries at http://www.persecution.com/pub.....Fpbl9tZW51 .
Redfray | 2.8.13 @ 11:44AM
I have some problems with Mr. Pipes philosophy. He thinks government control governing is the best direction for each nation. With his understanding of history, he knows societies of government controlled nations only have a rich class and poor class of people. The poor never get to rise to the rich class. How could anybody not see this in history? We have one of the best history lessons in the Bible about government controlled societies with a one world language. The moral standard was to terrible for the society to exist. Christianity has changed to a bad radical society from comparing it to the crusades and the English religion of the European continent. The American free society has boomed to feed the world, and educated the world, but the "Christian" people of America are being threaten as radicals by historical comparison, how stupid. If islam can change so can those who love the Bibical GOD. Lets be fair to history. Show me a government controlled government that doesn't treat the poor people bad?
Intelligent Design| 2.8.13 @ 11:49AM
A good book to read is Sharia Versus Freedom - the Legacy of Islamic Totalitarianism by Andrew G. Bostom. Others: The Grand Jihad by Andrew McCarthy and Marked for Death by Geert Wilders.
Tom Kyba| 2.8.13 @ 12:16PM
I would also include "Islamic Imperialism" by Efraim Karsh.
Job| 2.8.13 @ 12:18PM
"The American left and the Islamists agree on what they dislike—conservatives—and, despite their profound differences, they cooperate."
"my enemies enemy is my friend," what a concept, wish Reptards could figure this out, it's not calculus.
Rhoetus| 2.10.13 @ 8:06PM
They want to destroy our civilization.
Job| 2.8.13 @ 12:54PM
TB: Should the United States get involved there?
DP: "No, Americans have no dog in this fight and nothing in the U.S. Constitution requires us to get involved in every foreign conflict"...
TB: So you are supporting the Obama position?
DP: "Yes",..."Also, there appears to be some serious, clandestine U.S. support for the rebel forces..."
Wait... do you like ice cream?
No, I don't
So will you eat ice cream with a goat?
Yes, just so long as it's claudestine
Now wtf am I missing here?
Job| 2.8.13 @ 12:57PM
TB: You have questioned U.S. support for Islamic democracy, which does seem naïve.
For Pipe's sake, Lemme answer this one:
Job: Democracy was invented in Greece now lessee the Greek empire once covered places like Egypt, Pakistan, Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, nonetheless, wonder if they heard of Democracy while it was in the neighborhood...guess not, we better swim the effin Atlantic and explain it too 'em then...hey all you backwards sombitches we got an idea called democracy we do here in America...
markenoff| 2.8.13 @ 1:11PM
Not really unless you mean the empire of Alexander the Great which was Macedonian and collapsed when he died. His followers founded the Ptolemaic and Seleucid Empires as well as other smaller states and they did spread Greek culture to a certain extent but they were by no means democracies. Most Greek city states were not democracies in the modern sense either.
Job| 2.8.13 @ 1:27PM
ok point taken but don't strain the gnat, democracy came from the "middle east".
Job| 2.8.13 @ 1:31PM
(should've wrote Grecian)
Job| 2.8.13 @ 5:06PM
hmm guess after careful review i'm full of shite and Near East is more better. but its still near the M.E....okay i was in denial and had to grieve, bargain, and get angry and now i'm on to the acceptance stage... it's closer than America and thanks for setting me staight.
Job| 2.8.13 @ 1:01PM
TB: So what should we do?
DP: I offer three simple guidelines:
"One, always oppose the Islamists"
"Two, always support the liberal, modern, secular people who share our worldview."
"Three, and more difficult, cooperate with dictators but condition it on pushing them toward reform and opening up."
Ok so Lesee that means we should still be cooperating with these secular regimes, Qadaffi, Mubarek, Assad, Sadam Hussein, The Shah of Iran, the mujahedeen in Afganistan, and Imanutjob (Ahmadinajad), and mind you the only strong secular regimes in the Middle East Hood and ignore that this shit keeps blowin up in our face.
Translation, hey everybody let's just keep playing catch with water balloons filled with Nitroglycerin.
markenoff| 2.8.13 @ 1:12PM
"Four, nuke Mecca and Medina."
AllAmericanAmerican| 2.8.13 @ 3:42PM
Actually that's #1 in my book.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:37PM
And 2, and 3 in mine. Love you guys.
Rhoetus| 2.10.13 @ 8:09PM
If we didn't suffer from our own corruption in Washington DC, New York and in the University - we'd be well on the way to saving our civilization.
AllAmericanAmerican| 2.8.13 @ 3:42PM
The problem is those "liberal, modern, secular people" are called hypocrites in mohammed's mein kempf (aka the koran).
I'd like to know who our "islam experts" think they'll side with when it comes down to islam v. The West? Or islam v. Israel?
I mean we have 1400+ years of history and we STILL wanna try and interpret islam based on our Western, Judeo-Christian worldview instead of seeing it for what it is---and more importantly, for what muslims see it as.
Joe D.| 2.8.13 @ 2:03PM
Islamism has been with us from the beginning. Muhommad use it to conquer Sandia Araiba. His followers follow it to conquer the Middle East, Southern/Central/Eastern Europe, parts of Asia and parts of Africa. This is nothing new. The tactics are new but not the end game. They are great and good and we are evil and therefore need to be conquered and subjugated.
cicero| 2.8.13 @ 2:08PM
Ad Adab - I know of no western society that has converted to Islam. The only group I am aware of is the African americans, and their form of islam is not nearly as restricitve as that of the coerced societies.
As far as the historic base of democracy goes, the Greeks tried it, and theirs lasted a very short time. The Romans tried it again, and it lasted a little longer, but not much. That is why, when the Americans decided to try it, they wanted nothing to do with democracy. They went for a constituional republic, with a limited franchise. That lasted a good while. Now we are where the Greeks and Romans were just before they surrendered their democratic freedoms. From a spectators' standpoint, it will be interesting to see what will happen next. From a citizen's standpoint, it will be so sad.
Al Adab| 2.8.13 @ 2:32PM
An entire society, No Cicero,you are correct. I was speaking of the ability of individuals to make that choice. Islam prohibits it (a capital offense actually) while Christendom allows such. The experience of historical societies with Democracy was why your founders feared it and established a representative republic for the governance of the United States. As that republic drifts ever further into democracy the freedoms of the citizens become evermore subject to the rule of the mob or whatever transient majority a Ceasar or Bonaparte can cobble together.
AllAmericanAmerican| 2.8.13 @ 3:28PM
For an "islam expert" I don't quite get this exchange:
"TB: What about Islam in the United States?
DP: In the long term, the United States could greatly benefit Islam by uniquely freeing the religion from government constraints and permitting it to evolve in a positive, modern direction."
Islam will not "evolve." Muslims believe that nonsense mohammed spewed was the direct word of God. There's no changing, evolving, or reforming that. Once someone starts talking about reforming islam or "modern/moderate" muslims they lose all credibility with me. Sorry don't care how much you think you know about islam, if 9/11 didn't tell you what you NEED to know nothing will.
Hell if the fricking koran and hadiths weren't enough, what is?
Holy cow man our own experts have their heads in the sand.
For pete's sake one of their "imams" raped and killed his own daughter. This was after torturing her and trying to burn her rectum closed. Her crime? He thought his little FIVE YEAR OLD girl had lost her virginity. So he RAPED and TORTURED her to death.
His punishment was a $50,000 fine.
That's islam in a nutshell folks.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.8.13 @ 3:40PM
I have spent considerable time in a Muslim nation in Central Asia that was once a Soviet Republic. As I see it the biggest threat to Muslims and non-Muslims alike is the violent spread of the puritanical Wahhabism/Salafism. The Wahhabists encompass the theological beliefs of Sunni Islamists throughout the world and are completely intolerant of non-Muslims in their midst and especially of Muslims that don't buy into their puritanical form of Islam. They destroy local Muslim (many Sufi) cultures throughout the world and try to replace them with Saudi Arab culture.
Mistral| 2.8.13 @ 3:44PM
I have been living and working amongst mahomatens in various parts of the world for almost all of my career. I have a great deal of respect for many of the people I have worked for and with and made some good friendships.
Much of what is said here I can relate to. However, I do not ever foresee an era in history when these nations will embrace voting democracies successfully. On the contrary, Egypt is a prime example of such consequences. This society has become seriously polarised for the first time for many years due to this "democratic" ideology ceratinly more suited to our particular cultural foundations than theirs. This radical division of forces will not be shaped into similar political processes as ours. Inherent tribalism is also stimulated by the western style process as groups form alliances to seize power. In the "elections" there will always be endemic corruption. In their religion this ideology of power status is simulataneously political and religious. They are inseparable ideas. The only opportunity a mahomaten has to live in a democracy is to emigrate to one. He will do this because he uses his own rationale rather than slavishly follow, submissive to the rule.
This aspect of the religion is one that the liberals in our societies have no clue to - they use their own interpetation which is totally irrelevant and misleading. To understand we need to immerse ourselves in their lives.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.8.13 @ 5:38PM
In most places democracy does not work. Now representative government is a different matter, but democracy(majority rule) usually ends bad for a nation's minorities. We don't have a democracy here in the United States, if we did most of the liberal projects since the 60's would have never gotten off the ground.
markenoff| 2.9.13 @ 3:00PM
Democracy is usually one man, one vote, one time.
Then it becomes a kleptocracy, the default position of essentially all governments.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.9.13 @ 10:58PM
Someone once said every revolution usually begins with good intentions and then degenerates into a racket.
Occam's Tool| 2.8.13 @ 5:39PM
Treat them like sharks: bash them on the nose until they behave well. Do whatever it takes to do this: worked for Japan and Germany.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.8.13 @ 6:02PM
I have relatives who are Muslim and where they are from (in Central Asia) there have been Jews living there for more than 2500 years and 1300 of those years they have lived side by side in peace with Muslims who are the majority. Now due to hard economic conditions most of the Jews have left for Israel, but they left quite a mark on the city and the region and their absence is definitely felt in the academic field as well as the medical field. Not all Muslims are bad. Some are wonderful people with rich history and traditions. Unfortunately the one's who make headlines are the Wahhabist psychopaths who think nothing of killing women and children as they did in Beslan.
Here is my wife's city, a marvelous and beautiful city filled with 14th and 15th century Muslim architecture and culture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarkand
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.8.13 @ 11:00PM
That's not Islam, that's Wahhabist devil worship. This piece of sh&t should have all of his limbs, toes and fingers broken, his teeth broken out, then he could be sodomized with a splintery broom handle then we could burn his rectum shut then forcibly sodomize him with the broom handle again. Saudi Arabia is the devil's playground. F&ck; Saudi Arabia, f&ck; its laws, f&ck; its sheiks and its clerics, f&ck; its judiciary system. Islam Karimov is right to have his secret service boil Wahhabists alive, they deserve no better...they are scum.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.8.13 @ 11:06PM
That was in response to the story AllAmericanAmerican brought up about the Saudi Imam (Wahhabist for sure) who raped and murdered his 5 year old daughter because in his warped mind she had somehow lost her virginity. Then the Saudi Arabian government released him after he payed $50,000 in blood money.
http://www.examiner.com/articl.....-virginity
KennesawJack| 2.8.13 @ 11:19PM
Dimitry, Tavarich. Even though it is very late in the evening and the wine is kicking in, I like the way you think.
KennesawJack| 2.8.13 @ 11:22PM
I particularly like the splintery broom handle part. The visuals are impressive, to say the least.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.8.13 @ 11:34PM
I'm sorry about being so graphic. I read what this animal did to his daughter and it sent me into a rage. I have a little girl only a year younger than this one. All children are God's children. Any adult who would do this to a child should be torn from limb to limb and no part of his/her body should be left pain free before they die.
KennesawJack| 2.8.13 @ 11:44PM
No need to apologize. The world needs to know, in the clearest possible terms, exactly what these Wahabists and their ilk are all about.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.8.13 @ 11:53PM
The news today is some Islamic courts in Egypt (once again probably Wahhabist/Salafists) have said that if women join in the opposition protests (against Morsi) it is justifiable to rape them.
http://rt.com/news/egypt-women.....-rape-770/
These are the same Wahhabist/Salafists who are murdering Coptic Christians, kidnapping Coptic Christian girls and forcing them into marriages with Muslim men and burning and/or bombing Coptic Christian Churches. I have absolutely no tolerance for these kind. They are not "true" Muslims like they claim, they are a death cult, they are devil worshipers and they all deserve to be shot in the back of the head and fed to pigs.
markenoff| 2.9.13 @ 3:02PM
I think that is a favorite method of the NYPD.
Marc Jeric| 2.9.13 @ 2:34PM
Islam has never been a religion - it is a political program in 4 stages:
1) Conquest by force of arms or terror; then
2) Conversion; if resisted then
3) Slavery; if resisted then
4) Mass murder.
Over 14 centuries since its formulation by that desert robber-murderer and pedophile Mohamed it has never changed.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.9.13 @ 2:49PM
Marc Jeric the same could be said of Christian powers in our past history especially during colonial times. The fact of the matter is that (like Christianity) Islam is not monolithic. There are two major branches (Sunni being the majority and Shia being the minority) with many different schools of thought ranging from the more liberal Sufis to the hard line puritanical fundamentalist Wahhabi/Salafis. Right now its the Wahhabists/Salafists and there ilk who have set the Muslim world on fire, but they have nothing in common with the Muslims I know from the former Soviet Republics of Central Asia.
AllAmericanAmerican| 2.10.13 @ 10:50AM
Actually no the same can't be said. You make that claim and offer NO EVIDENCE.
Christianity was founded by Christ.
Islam was founded by mohammed/allah (one and the same).
If a Christian murders, robs, rapes, lies, or enslaves in the name of Christ, is he following Christ's words, deeds, and teachings? No.
If a muslim murders, robs, rapes, lies, or enslaves in the name of "allah," are they following mohammed/allah's words, deeds, and teachings? Yes.
THERE'S your difference.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.10.13 @ 1:00PM
During the Crusades Western Christians sacked Constantinople and raped Orthodox nuns on the alter. Due to the Western Christians sacking of Constantinople the Byzantine Empire never recovered and the Turks took Constantinople and it became Istanbul. During the time of the English Puritan dictator Oliver Cromwell he slaughtered his political and sectarian (Roman Catholics and Anglicans) opponents in the name of his Protestant reformist brand of Christianity. Western Christendom has a long history of invading Orthodox Christian lands and converting Orthodox people by the sword. So no you are wrong there is evidence to the contrary and yes there is a precedent.
Also Muhammed (to my knowledge) never attacked Christians (a Christian king in Ethiopia actually gave Muhammed and his early Muslims refuge from the pagans in Arabia with whom he was at war with). In the Koran it states that the closest people to Muslims are Christians and that Christians and Jews are supposed to be protected (if they are conquered or submit to Muslim rule), and their churches and temples be protected as well. Now different Muslim rulers have followed or not followed these Koranic laws to different degrees over their 1400 year history, but they do exist.
AllAmericanAmerican| 2.11.13 @ 11:34AM
Holy cow, when all else fails bring up the Crusades. Wow.
OK, I think the 20,375 muslim terror attacks just SINCE 9/11 cancel out anything a Crusader did 1000 years ago.
Please, the koran is the jumbled, nonsensical ramblings of a pedophile pirate. Why don't you tell us how mohammed treated the Arab Jewish tribes? That's in the koran. Oh then there's also the little problem of the sira and hadiths. Ooops, this Infidel knows about those too! Uh oh!
Not to mention but you neglected to answer my question, didn't ya? If a Christian murders, rapes, robs, etc in Christ's name, he is not following Christ's teachings. However when muslims murder, rape, rob, steal, lie, burn their 5 y/o daughter's anuses, put burkas on baby girls, etc, they ARE following mohammed/allah's teachings. Right?
Right.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.11.13 @ 10:40PM
I'm talking about the sack of Constantinople (the capitol of the Eastern Orthodox Christian Byzantine Empire) in 1204 A.D. by Western Christians.
I don't know what Wahhabists do. Many Muslims don't consider Wahhabists to be Muslims. They consider them fanatics. Before going on the attack why don't you try to understand what I'm saying first?
Have you ever been to a Muslim country, do you have Muslim friends or relatives, do you have any understanding of Islam outside of Fox News? I am not a Muslim, I am a Russian Orthodox Christian. Orthodox Christians have lived with, fought with, been occupied by Muslim powers and occupied predominantly Muslim lands long before the United States and the West ever had a problem with Islam (which was largely the West's own making when they helped fund, arm, train and radicalize Muslims to fight the Soviets during the Soviet Afghan war).
AllAmericanAmerican| 2.11.13 @ 11:40AM
Qur'an 5:51 "O believers, do not hold Jews and Christians as your allies. They are allies of one another; and anyone who makes them his friends is one of them."
Hey, since you brought up the Crusades, how exactly did they start?
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.11.13 @ 10:46PM
The Crusades began in the 11th century when the Byzantine Emperor went to the Pope of Rome for assistance after the Turks seized Jerusalem. . In 1204 Western Crusaders sacked the Byzantine Orthodox city of Constantinople looting priceless Christian artifacts and raping Orthodox nuns on the alters of Orthodox Churches. I'm not bringing up the Crusades from a Muslim perspective. I'm bringing them up from an Orthodox Christian perspective.
markenoff| 2.9.13 @ 2:59PM
Democracy is incompatible with islam. It is not for the people to decide how they will live it is for the imams to interpret the koran and tell them how to live.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.9.13 @ 3:22PM
Western liberal democracy is hardly compatible with Christianity either. Eventually individualism trumps Christian morality and Churches largely become museums as they have in Europe. The United States is not a democracy it is a constitutional Republic which is the only way a pluralistic society such as our own could have survived without ethnic and sectarian divisions tearing the country apart like in some parts of Europe (Northern Ireland, Basque country, the Balkans, etc.).
Bob K| 2.10.13 @ 10:01AM
The USA was designed to be a constitutional Republic and has been since it's inception but the continuing historical movement of the world and of our country towards Democracy has weakened our Republican form of government greatly.
The culpability of the various media in this decline cannot be underestimated.
Bob K| 2.10.13 @ 10:03AM
Nor can the media's culpability be overstated!
AllAmericanAmerican| 2.10.13 @ 10:56AM
Look, FREEDOM is incompatible with islam. That's it. Freedom, individualism, conscience---those things have NO PLACE in islam.
Islam is a virus that either needs to kill off everything around it or be killed off. NO form of secular government---a republic, democracy, socialism, nothing---is compatible with islam.
For God's sake these people are now saying baby girls---BABIES---need to be covered in burkas so as not to entice grown men to rape them. I mean what kind of sick effs get turned on by BABIES? We throw those people in jail here. In islamic countries they are their frigging imams.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.10.13 @ 1:03PM
What you are describing (freedom, individualism, conscience) is a product of secular Western Liberal Democracy. It is not a product of traditional Christian thought. Not all Muslims are bad Muslims. Like I said I have Muslim relatives in Central Asia who are as far from being Wahhabists as you could get. They would indeed kill this man who killed his child, because they respect and love life.
AllAmericanAmerican| 2.11.13 @ 11:26AM
It most certainly IS a product of traditional Christian thought---the concept of free will. You keep making the claim but offering NOTHING to back it up. Typical muslim apologist. "Western Liberal Democracies" are socialist, communist, atheistic governments. There is no freedom there, which is why Leftards and muslims are such good buds---they both despise freedom, individualism, conscience and most importantly, the One True God.
I could truly care less of your, uhh, moderate muslim relatives. Mohammed had a name for them in the koran, he called them hypocrites. Me, I don't offer a distinction between "bad" and "good" with respect to muslims as the practice of lying to further the cause is a tenet of the muslim "faith."
Look, when another tenet of that "religion" is anyone who converts must be killed, you can't possibly be serious and think it values freedom.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 2.11.13 @ 10:31PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_democracy
According to its definition the United States is a Western Liberal Democracy and its Christian roots can definitely be debated being that a good number of the founding fathers were committed Freemasons and some were Deists. Had the Puritans set up the United States government it wouldn't have been a Constitutional Republic it would have been a theocracy.
I am not a Koranic scholar as you propose to be so I do not know what Mohammed would have considered my Muslim relatives in the former Soviet Central Asia. I've always known them to be honest, honorable and hospitable people who are more Christian in character than many self professed Christians I know here in America. So they eat pork and drink vodka like most people from the former Soviet Union, just because they don't fit the Wahhabist (like Bin Laden) version of what a Muslim should be doesn't mean they are not faithful Muslims (dietary laws excluded).
As for killing converts. I've never heard of it happening in the former Soviet Republics of Central Asia. It happens in Saudi Arabia (Wahhabist), it happens in Pakistan (Deobandi/Wahhabist), it happens in Egypt (once again Wahhabist). In many countries its a non-issue because only traditional religions of the land are legal and interfaith proselytizing is looked down upon. In Russia the Orthodox Church does not proselytize Muslims and Muslims in turn do not proselytize Orthodox Christians.