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A Further Perspective
The Coming Obamacare Recession
Actually, we already saw it last quarter and there’ll be no escaping it this year.
To the shock of many, U.S. GDP shrank in the fourth quarter of 2012 by 0.1%. Immediately, however, economists and commentators flooded the media with reassuring explanations. Super Storm Sandy reduced economic activity in the areas it ravaged; worries about the fiscal cliff and sequestration dampened business spending and government defense spending; businesses let inventory levels dwindle. Even the Federal Reserve commented that the GDP drop was the result of “weather-related disruptions and other transitory factors.” All this is true, to some extent. But none of the reporting I saw even mentioned the elephant in the room that not only depressed economic activity in the fourth quarter of 2012, but will continue to depress economic activity through 2013 and beyond. That elephant is the “Affordable Care Act,” aka “Obamacare.”
Some of the negatives from the fourth quarter will reverse in the first quarter of 2013. Sandy reconstruction will kick in, and the big drop in defense outlays was probably an anomaly. But business inventories fell in the fourth quarter not because businesses were too pessimistic about demand and let inventories fall too much, but because they had been too optimistic earlier in the year and allowed them to get too high. The idea that business will have to start increasing inventory levels in the first quarter of 2013 in order to meet increasing demand is purely theoretical, and right now, there is precious little evidence to support that theory. On the contrary, lackluster holiday sales do not augur well for consumer spending, and the Conference Board’s index of consumer sentiment fell from a reading of 66.7 in December to 58.6 in January, its lowest reading since November 2011.
The January employment report, which cheered Wall Street due to the upward revision in November and December employment, showed only an increase of 157,000 jobs, which was slightly below expectations and not even high enough to keep up with population growth. Surely, many optimists have argued, the stronger fourth quarter employment numbers show that there must be something wrong with the fourth quarter GDP report and it will surely be revised upwards. Initial GDP reports often do get revised, and it would be no surprise if the fourth quarter is revised upwards, but the employment numbers are not a harbinger of that outcome. An equally valid interpretation of the data is that employers were hiring in the fourth quarter in anticipation of greater economic growth that did not materialize, and if it doesn’t materialize soon, much of those employment gains may be reversed out in 2013.
The American economy is resilient, full of entrepreneurial spirit, despite the best efforts of the Obama administration. The American economy wants to grow, and after four years of recession and faint recovery, a release of pent up demand has resulted in higher spending on autos and on business software and computer systems. But will that continue and will it be sufficient to counter the roadblocks the Obama administration has set up that have proved so effective in retarding economic growth?
Consumer and business spending, which have been rising modestly, will continue to rise if consumers and businesses have confidence in the future. The new year, however, brought with it higher taxes, and not just the increases on income over $400,000 recently won by the Obama forces. Many Obamacare taxes became effective January 1, 2013, including a 0.9% increase in Medicare Taxes and an extra 3.8% tax on investment income, including dividends, interest, capital gains, and rent income, for households earning more than $250,000.
Some of the ugly details of Obamacare, the most far-reaching piece of legislation to be passed without a single member of Congress having actually read it—indeed not even having been allowed a serious chance to read it—have only been gaining attention in recent months. Looking forward to 2014, employers are now looking at an additional $63 per insured employee fee to compensate insurance companies for the added costs of covering previously uninsured people with pre-existing conditions. That’s supposed to phase out by 2017, but if you believe that you probably also bought the line that Obama is in favor of a “balanced” approach to deficit reduction.
Better known is the $2,000 per employee charge that any business with more than 50 full-time employees will have to pay for every full-time employee to whom that business does not provide an Obama-approved health package (though the first 30 such employees are exempted). With all the concern expressed in the media about how the uncertainty posed by the fiscal cliff negotiations negatively affects business, it is odd that so little attention has been focused on the certainty of Obamacare costs that businesses now have to face. Many companies, large and small, have pointed to these provisions, explaining that this is why they won’t be hiring, or won’t be hiring nearly as much in 2013 as they would otherwise. Abbott Labs, Boston Scientific, Welch Allyn, and many other companies have even reported they will be laying off workers directly as a result of Obamacare.
I’m in the commercial real estate business, and have managed commercial properties for more than 20 years. A friend of mine has been in the real estate services business, providing everything from janitorial services to window washing to parking lot repairs for about as long. In fact, the company I work for was his first account. In the last 20 years, he has expanded from a handful of full-time employees to 150 full-time employees. I recently discussed with him his concerns about the effect of Obamacare on his business. Most of his employees are in lower-skill occupations and so only earn $10 - $15 per hour. He cannot afford to tack on health care benefits equal to another $3.50 to $5.50 per hour without going broke. His more affordable alternative would be to pay the $2,000 per employee fee, which would effectively erase his entire 2012 profit from his business. In essence, this one provision is the equivalent of a 90% - 100% tax on his typical net business income. Worse yet, since the law does not allow the $2,000 per employee charge as a deductible business expense, he’ll have to pay federal income tax on approximately $240,000 of business income he didn’t get. Implicit in the law (or perhaps it is explicit) is the notion that it is the responsibility of employers to provide health insurance to their employees, and if they don’t they are bad people, greedy capitalists exploiting the working class, and deserve to be punished.
What is my friend to do? He can raise his prices and risk losing business from people like me who will then need to cut back on his services, or who will go to his smaller competitors with fewer than 50 employees who are not (yet) subject to the fee. Or he can cut back the hours of his employees until he has fewer than 50 working full-time. Or he can fire most of his employees and tell them they are on their own as independent contractors, and he may be able to subcontract with them from time-to-time for specific jobs. None of these alternatives are good for the business owner, his customers, his employees, or the economy in general.
This is what you get when people sheltered all their lives in government and community organizing, with little knowledge of how businesses actually operate, are put in charge of crafting far-reaching economic policies. This is what you get from people who don’t recognize businesses as the drivers of employment, economic growth, and higher standards of living, but see them as entities that need to be regulated, managed, and controlled by government for the “public good.” This is what you get from people who deride the idea that successful businesses are created by their owners working long hours, developing good ideas, and putting capital at risk, but instead are the creations of government and the community at large.
The iniquity of the law, in that it places a much higher burden, as a percentage of payroll costs, on companies in lower-skilled/lower-wage industries versus companies in relatively higher-skilled/higher-wage industries, is one argument against Obamacare. But there is no question that the law delivers pain to almost everyone. Unions, for instance, are now complaining that the requirement to eliminate annual and lifetime benefit caps, a feature in many policies, including many administered by unions, by itself will, by the estimate of one Atlanta area Sheet Metal Workers Union representative interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, push the price of union labor up by $0.50 to $1.00 per hour to cover the extra costs associated with eliminating those caps. Perhaps unions, being friends and supporters of the Obama administration, will be successful in obtaining federal subsidies or further waivers from the law (equality under the law has not been a hallmark of this administration), but the cost will just be shifted somewhere else, such as on to employers or taxpayers, with the same depressing effect on economic activity.
How the economy performs will be determined by more than just Obamacare. There will be other negative factors, such as Europe, which will continue to have bouts of economic turmoil. But there will be positives, as well. The U.S. economy is fundamentally sound and dynamic. It is poised to grow, and has been for years. American corporations, on the whole, are sitting on large cash reserves, looking for opportunities to put that cash to productive use. It will be Obamacare, however, that I fear will be the weight that will matter most. The consensus among economists is that GDP will rebound in the first quarter of 2013 and that GDP growth for the year will be about 2.0%. Unfortunately, I believe that even that dreary prediction will prove too optimistic, and 2013 is more likely to be the year of the Obamacare recession.
Photo: UPI
About the Author
Brandon Crocker is the chief financial officer of a commercial real estate development and management company in San Diego.
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C.B.| 2.6.13 @ 6:45AM
"This is what you get when people all lives in government and community organizing....." this one paragraph in the article should be required reading for all Americans. Sadly, though, the limited intelligence range of Obama supporters would keep these words of wisdom from having any effect.....
C.B.| 2.6.13 @ 6:46AM
Sorry..."sheltered all their lives"...
Aristocat| 2.6.13 @ 7:47AM
Don't worry about the unions...They were exempted from this absurd law.
Von Mises Jr| 2.6.13 @ 8:57AM
Mark Levin explains what seems counter-intuitive in that Barrack-O-Claus is the union’s worst enemy. The rank-and-file are too cute by half selling out non-union employees collaborating with the Marxist regime since socialist have no friends except the other Ruling Class elite Marxist.
Trumka, Hoffa and Weingarten will get a seat at the table, but there is not enough to go around for the rank-and-file.
Rahm "Dead Fish" has floated that he intends to off-load public employees onto the ObamaCare Exchange to get out from under the weight of Cadillac Health Plans promised for life. So the best care providing $10 co-pay and $5 Prescriptions will be replaced with waiting for perhaps weeks or months as they do currently in Britain and Canada with many procedures denied.
The Exemption will be for the State of Illinois to put their rank-and-file on the government rationing without the fine to either the State or the Union sucker that got out the vote. Suckers.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 12:32PM
You are exactly right.
You don't believe me?
Ask the Ex Hostess Employees.
They're all outta work, and there Union Bosses are still eating 24oz Porterhouse Steaks at Peter Lugar's, while they wait for their 5lb Lobsters to come.
davidh| 2.6.13 @ 3:27PM
The incredible power of the federal government must be intoxicating. Addictive.
I can only imagine the impact on the psyche of the power a senator, representative, federal judge or the president experiences daily. Certainly more power is the federal junkies dream.
Obama thinks he is a God. Rightly so. His minions and trappings that surround him would reinforce this.
We cannot understand this federal power or its impact on the human mind. It would be an easy leap to think the masses should be ruled and that those in power are superior to those they rule.
The concept of evil is mysterious. Hitler was evil and sought power. How evil is Obama. Many of us believe that he is as evil as any human being ever to inhabit this planet.
Problem is, when the mask is unveiled it will be too late. Martial law. False flags. Death on a global scale. We will not be here to say “I told you so”. The internet as we know it will be gone in a flash drive.
Do you think that’s air your breathing?
PCC| 2.6.13 @ 6:57AM
The big problem is that there is a lack of understanding that the imposition of these costs on employers does not recognize that the US is now in a global competition for capital and labor, and that global competition for capital negatively affects demand for domestic labor. The window washers and restaurant workers will pay the price far more than the hedge fund managers.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 9:10AM
Who's toilet do ya gotta drink outta, to get a Column around here?
That was the Stupidest Column, since Ben Stein's last one. I don't know where to start?
"Even the Federal Reserve said that Nobody's buyin Nuthin cause they got no Money, cause they got no jobs, was Storm Related." (I'm paraphrasing)
Is this the same FED that is Printing our Dollar into Oblivion? Or the one that's Monetizing 80% of our Debt through a Shell Game, using Monopoly Money?
"Sandy reconstruction's gonna kick in."
Really? Cause I'm reading in the NY Post that The Bulldozers are gonna Kick In, and Knock Down. And who was Surprised that the Economy Shrunk AFTER the Election? And when do we get THE REAL NUMBERS?
Soviet Healthcare is but one Big Gorilla, in a room full of Big Gorillas. Nobody that's trying as hard as these guys, to duplicate everything the Weimar Republic did x's 10, can prevent the inevitable. The Dam has a Crack in it, and their only solution is to add more water to the Resevoir, and hope that it holds until they leave Town.
Too many Takers. Not enough Makers. Too much Government Interference. Not enough Freedom. Too much Cheerleading. Not enough NEWS REPORTING. A Narccissist in the White House, hellbent on REVENGE against this Country. And a Lawless Roman Senate to do his bidding.
Where's that toilet?
I need a drink.
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 10:24AM
May I please flavour the contents before you partake? My vitamin dosage and last night's El Ropo should be reaching my bladder by now.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 10:39AM
Okay, now you're starting to Sound like a Moe.
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 10:44AM
How many Moes do you know?
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 12:36PM
Let's see.
There's Purp, Alan B, SC, Arnie. vtwin, and anyone else tha gives me Shitt all the time.
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 1:22PM
That dung make sense, I never gave youse any shitt, only my undying respect and adulation. Four of the five you listed are your idiotological opposites.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 2:37PM
I'm just Kidding.
Any Moe that comes to The Contest, is alright in my book.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 4:05PM
And, you spelled idiotlogical wrong.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 4:06PM
Actually, you spelled it right.
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 5:26PM
Methinks you will not see your other Moes at The Contest, what?
Gary B| 2.6.13 @ 7:08AM
With an anti-American Marxist in the White House and progressives and fake Republicans in Congress shaking down taxpayers and over regulating businesses, the hockey stick graph will continue pointing down.
PJ| 2.6.13 @ 7:23AM
"The Coming Obamacare Recession" needs to be called by its real name: The Coming Obamacare Depression. There are many small businesses ready to close shop & these extra taxes will just get them to the inevitable destination at a faster speed.
Another bad sign for the coming Depression: idiotic states are creating tax raising schemes to "pay' for their bloated budgets. In my state the pathetic inept governor & legislature passed & signed a bill that forces Amazon.com to collect the CT sales tax & create 300 distribution center jobs in the state. -----Like that's going to cover the CT's red ink!
Von Mises Jr| 2.6.13 @ 9:19AM
You are correct that we face depression. The statistics we have been propagandized with from the BLS grossly understates how bad it already is in the country. For instance, the 157K jobs created last month is after 169K jobs were eliminated from the universe of potential jobs or what is called the Work Force Participation Rate that is at a low not seen in decades. The GDP was negative 0.01% nominally Q4, but when you factor in the CPI as calculated by the BLS at 1.7% (since I am sure this is not in the reported CPI) real GDP is minus 1.8%. But if you add in food and fuel, real GDP is probably negative 6%. Real U6 Unemployment based on 2008 Work Force Participation Rates is about 17%. These numbers are as bad as Carter's worst Misery Index of 23% and things are going to get worse, not better as they did under Reagan.
It was after this report that Social Security Taxes increased by 2% of total income.
The fallacy that politicians and MSM have perpetrated is that corporations pay taxes. People pay taxes and corporations simply collect them with higher prices, lower cost (fire people) or lower Dividends. Believe me, your SMB owner is not going to work for free. He will fire staff since this is the largest component of most Operating Expenses. So more people will have no job that is probably good if they have to wait 8-16 hours in the Emergency Room for rationed care.
PJ| 2.6.13 @ 5:40PM
How many months & how big does the GNP have to be in the negative to be officially called a depression? (I thought I read 3 somewhere. And I'm not too sure what the negative size of GNP has to be.)
Anyway, it will be as bad as the one FDR fed in the 1930s.
Von Mises Jr| 2.6.13 @ 9:04PM
Two consecutive quarters of negative growth. We just had one.
Warrior| 2.6.13 @ 9:23PM
We've been in a depression for about 3 years now. Keep artificially infusing 1.3 trillion a year into the economy and you have weekend at Bernie's.
loulou| 2.6.13 @ 2:11PM
I agree. Why mince words? The Obama Depression will be catastrophic. .
Appleby| 2.6.13 @ 7:30AM
There's a reason socialism has never worked anywhere or any time it has been tried. You're looking at it.
Alan| 2.6.13 @ 7:35AM
There's a reason socialism has never worked anywhere or any time it has been tried. You're looking at it.
You know that, I know that, but when you exclude that fact from whats being taught in history classes from first grade through college, you can feed anything you want into that factual void to replace it. You have a generation of ignorants walking around who couldn't place WW2 in the 1940's or which side were allies and enemies.
dickdata| 2.8.13 @ 6:08PM
Your streets, highways, bridges, airports, street lights and signs and post office are all socialism at work. Not to mention SS and Medicare. All nations (except failed states like Somalia, maybe) have some elements of socialism. All we are arguing about the the AMOUNT of socialism, not whether we will have it.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 9:13AM
Because of my IPad?
That doesn't sound right?
Alan| 2.6.13 @ 7:31AM
Any fallout from this whore of a law will be blamed on the Republicans, the Pravda North American media will pound it home and the ignorati populace will believe it. Next.
dickdata| 2.8.13 @ 6:09PM
Not likely. More likely people will remember that Republicans were completely against it.
Joellen| 2.6.13 @ 7:32AM
"To the SHOCK of many"!
Really, who's shocked?
I really do believe that those who voted for Obama counted on this collapse, cause then he and his ilk could finalize his "transformation" that he boasted of during his FIRST election.
Nope, sorry, no one is shocked - maybe the rest of us are in shock and frozen in figuring out how are we really going to fix this - but no - EVERYONE knew this was coming.
SUBVET| 2.6.13 @ 10:33AM
Everyday here at TAS we talk about what 'they' are doing but no real soutions......or should I say where are the doers......when are we going to see the big fight back. This infection is in our veins we need a transfusion of new blood..........
SUBVET| 2.6.13 @ 10:34AM
and Rubio isn't it.....................
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 10:46AM
"We talk about what 'they' are doing but offer no real solutions........."
Speak for yourself.
Some of us do more than just complain.
It's just hard to punch through to people who Will Not Listen.
Are you listening?
Hello?
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 12:37PM
I'm kidding.
JimH| 2.6.13 @ 7:42AM
These costs, while imposed on the employer are at least in part passed on the employee. Just about simultaneous with Obamacare my employer changed its health plan offerings. It eliminated HMO and PPO plans, raised the employee contribution and imposed large deductibles. I had to take my daughter to the emergency room a few weeks back. She had a kitchen accident while doing volunteer work in a food pantry. She needed a few stitches in a thumb and forefinger and should be ok. Previous visits to the ER under the old plan cost me one hundred or less as a co pay per visit. This time the hospital is charging two thousand. One thousand was removed because of their deal with the insurance company. I owe the remaining thousand because we have not met the annual deductible.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 9:23AM
They will also be passed on to the Consumer, in the form of Higher Prices, as one can see in the Price of everything in the Supermarket that uses the Much Higher Priced Corn (especially Meat) because of the Government Mandate on Ethenol, who's New Blend will Purposefully Ruin our Automobiles, forcing us to Buy Another One. (Hopefully, from Government Motors)
All of these things used to be called: Controlling the Means of Production.
Now, it's just "Responsible Government".
"Those who control the Language............................."
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 7:48AM
Economists have actually identified why this little drop happened. Plus, these numbers will probably be revised, so we don't really know yet what the situation is like.
"If it were not for the hit from slower inventory growth and the deepest plunge in defense spending in 40 years, the economy would have grown at a respectable 2.5 percent rate. In addition, economists said Superstorm Sandy, which struck the East Coast in late October may have reduced GDP by about half a point.
"Obviously, the headline number is a bit jarring, but the underlying details of the report, by and large, are consistent with an economy that is growing probably at a trend basis of about two percent," said Michael Hanson, a senior economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch in New York."
http://www.reuters.com/article.....7520130130
Jack London| 2.6.13 @ 8:23AM
Don't forget Arnie that cutting public spending is another driver of recession. Guess who's into that.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 8:28AM
For sure. And the huge military budget, even as I'm opposed to it (I much rather would have had the government over decades purchasing buses, trains and green technology) does act as a constant stimulus to the economy.
Conservatives hate Keynes, but they can't deny the role government spending has had on propping up at least parts of the economy.
But yes, Europe made a the disastrous decision to go for austerity in the wake of the recession. It didn't fix squat. I thought anti-cyclical economics was figured out decades ago.
Von Mises Jr| 2.6.13 @ 9:21AM
It's working. If you refuse to debate with the trolls, they are relegated to talking to each other.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 9:24AM
Kinda like you and merlin.
loulou| 2.6.13 @ 2:13PM
I've always maintained that the trolls have no value and should be ignored.
merlin| 2.6.13 @ 9:21AM
Jack and Arnie,
Production is wealth. The government can tax and spend and do all the wealth transfers it can think of without increasing the wealth of the country. IOW, if noone grows potatoes (potatos?), your next Happy Meal will be the whole serving short of french fries. What does government product? Money given in the form of entitlements results in zero production. Maybe you will claim that entitlements increase demand for goods and services. No, it does not. If that money stays with the tax payer, a generator of wealth, it will be used to increase production, or to purchase goods and services with an identical increase in demand. If the feds give it to someone else, it is a disincentive to production.
Yes, this is a simpleminded way to look at the economy and government spending, but I am a kind of simpleminded person. I hope I got it basic enough for you to understand.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 9:29AM
Merlin, and what would happen if all the people started to hoard and save all their money, and not spend any of it? What would happen?
You admit you're a simple guy, so I'll ask you a simple question.
buckeyeman| 2.6.13 @ 10:03AM
Forget about "money" and think in terms of #2 yellow corn. It's storable, divisible, fungible, useful (food), and everyone can grow their own. That last phrase is the key. Corn won't plant, cultivate, weed, and harvest itself. That takes human effort, sometimes known as "productivity". So, in a society where some individuals work harder and plant more corn, and therefor have more corn at harvest time, why shouldn't they store ("hoard", in your Marxist lingo) what they have produced. Storage (savings) helps to protect against a poor crop next year due to universe-ending-global-warming-caused drought. Storing your corn also allows you to trade it to someone for something else you want that he has - arrowheads, pottery, his daughter?
Your problem, Arnie, is that you think stealing someone's corn and giving it to some lazy bastard like yourself who didn't bother to grow his own is some kind of "stimulus". It doesn't make any sense but you're too stupid to realize how economies actually work.
Sixgun| 2.11.13 @ 8:00PM
buckeye... that is rich... excellent response...
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 10:36AM
Buckeyeman, may I contribute some rubbish? (BTW I entered this world in Portage County Hospital) If people hoard their money, we will have more comfortable and better padded mattresses. If we save it, then banks have more money available to lend. Hoarding money will enable us to spend $$ when we need something and not have to use the magic money machine or plastic debt cards. Government confiscating my hard earned dollars reduces the money available for me to hoard or save and it winds up with some dough head pissing it away on cheap wine or pornography when he misuses the cash card he got from our Uncle. In your corn example the government confiscation would wind up with the kernels going down the corn hole.
markenoff| 2.6.13 @ 5:17PM
If you come for my corn I'll shot you in the face.
Sixgun| 2.11.13 @ 8:05PM
Keep in mind that for every 10 kernels of corn confiscated by the gubermint, only 3 would be distributed to the welfare whores who suck on the gubermint teet... the other 7 are spent on administrative costs.
Drunken Sailor| 2.6.13 @ 10:48AM
Impossible scenario.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 11:09AM
Drunken Sailor, what I'm talking about is a liquidity trap. It actually happened during the early years of the Great Depression, Japan in the 90s, and the U.S. in the wake of the financial crisis.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....43926.html
Drunken Sailor| 2.6.13 @ 1:42PM
So your telling me no one, not a single person spent any money on anything? During the Depression I might believe it. More people grew their own food or worked their own land. In todays society, forget about it. We are not a society of producers anymore, we are a society of consumer.
markenoff| 2.6.13 @ 5:18PM
Obama has ensured that we spend a lot of money on guns and ammo. At least that part of the economy got a stimulu from BO's election.
George S| 2.6.13 @ 2:00PM
What would happen if Martian space sewage fell into a peanut butter factory? That has the same probability as people stopping their spending of food, energy and...
... and taxes. You think the government will let us hoard that?
GobBluthe| 2.6.13 @ 9:47AM
And yet the decade of the 1990s America engaged in a lighter form of austerity and the economy boomed. In 1993 federal spending was 22% of GDP. By 2000, it was 18% of GDP. Growth averaged 4% and by 2000, unemployment was 3.8%. Something the keynesians said found never happen.
Since 2001, federal spending has risen in real terms by 25% and yet GDP growth has averaged about 1%. According to Keynes we should be celebrating the Bush/Obama boom.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 10:28AM
GobBluthe, yes, according to Keynes, you can cut spending while the economy is booming, but not while it is struggling, that's why in the 90s, cuts had no (at least noticeable) impact on the economy, and it helps keep inflation lower during those boom times.
This is basic, anti (or counter)-cyclical economics, i.e. Keynesian economics.
And if the financial markets had not been turned into an unregulated, black market casino, the economy wouldn't be in the shape it is today, because of the financial crisis.
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 10:39AM
The part of Keynes you missed was when he wrote that his theories were incorrect about "stimulus" spending.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 10:58AM
Do you have a link for that Moe? I've never heard of that, and I'm not denying he did say that. I'm just asking, where did you learn that?
What is for certain is that Keynes advised FDR to make works programs to spur growth. And of course, the biggest stimulus of all was the massive spending on weapons for WW2. So I find it difficult to believe that Keynes would have said that.
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 11:41AM
Sorry Arnie, no link. Walter L. Williams and Thomas Sowell have both written about Keynes in his later years when he saw that his theories did not work when applied.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 11:47AM
Well sorry, I won't believe the words of conservative opinion columnists. I'd rather have the real stuff.
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 1:30PM
If you think that Walter E.Williams nothing more than an opinion columnist, then you do not know his background. Paul Krugman is a liberal opinion columnist and an advocate for Keynes. Is Paul Krugman more credible than the two black guys I mentioned? If you want the "real stuff', then invest a few quid and buy Keynes' book.
Jack London| 2.6.13 @ 11:54AM
Arnie - 11 days before he died he apparently said this to a friend:
"I find myself more and more relying for a solution of our problems on the invisible hand which I tried to eject from economic thinking twenty years ago."
But no one apart from our far right friends takes this seriously, as it's not clear what context he was talking about, and in any case Keynes was a capitalist and a rich one too. Here's a blog post about it:
http://socialdemocracy21stcent.....anism.html
GobBluthe| 2.6.13 @ 11:16AM
The economy boomed in the 1990s because the size of govt was reduced thus freeing up capital for the private sector.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 11:44AM
No it did not.
Find me 2 independent economists that think the boom in the 90s was the RESULT of decreased government spending, and hence because of the influence of Republicans.
The fact is the US economy was already experiencing growth rates of 5% before the Republicans were even ELECTED to Congress, and much less before they started passing any legislation. They took power in January 1995, and didn't pass anything of any significance until several months later. In fact, welfare reform didn't even happen until August of 1996. Before that, the economy had already experienced several quarters of +4% growth under Clinton.
http://www.economagic.com/em-c.....gdp-qtrchg
You have your historical facts turned around GobBluthe. Austerity does not turn around a bad economy. And austerity was not responsible for the boom in the 90s.
Where do you guys get these ridiculous ideas?
Moe Blotz| 2.6.13 @ 1:43PM
Read a little more back into the 1980s. When Mistuh Jimmuh was prezdet, I was getting started in my working career with my first two trucks. After completing his triple double concerning prime rate, unemployment rate, and inflation rate, we sent Mr. Carter and his Keynesians back to the peanut farm. The prosperity that youse refer to in the mid 90s began a decade earlier with lower income tax rates and less government spending/intrusion. You can cut and paste all you want from your cache of progressive/liberal opinion writers. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 2:18PM
Reagan did not decrease government spending by any significant amount, if at all. The best decision the Reagan administration made was to have the Fed lower interest rates, i.e. Paul Volker That's it.
The fact is, the boom in the 90s was mostly due to a technological boom, that originally came from the research of universities and military research that had been progressing for decades. Clinton had higher tax rates on everybody, even higher than Obama. Did the capitalists run for the hills? No. They got rich like crazy, even with higher tax rates.
The only thing I am arguing is that counter-cyclical economics works. Austerity has done squat, and won't in the future. Europe has had massive austerity, anywhere from 5 - 20% cuts in spending in some countries, and they haven't had a boom. In fact, it has only prolonged the recession. And also, there are many economists that had said the Obama stimulus was way too small, and about half of it was dependent on tax cuts, and not works programs which actually have a higher multiplier effect.
Now, I would argue that many countries in Europe should also devalue their currency. But the Euro zone is not designed that way, hence another problem for some of their countries.
@Clint, I never said Japan fixed its problems, I only said it experienced a liquidity trap. There are economists of the 'left' persuasion the Japan never made the right decisions to fix their problems.
ClintCalaway| 2.6.13 @ 1:57PM
Please follow the link to and article by William H Gross, is a founder, managing director and co-CIO of PIMCO . He has been with PIMCO since he co-founded the firm in 1971 and oversees the management of more than $1.9 trillion of securities
I'm sure you and I could agree he is not a two-bit blogger, and a bit more knowledgeable then an MSNBC commentator. He know a thing or two about credit and the bond market.
http://bit.ly/iggvcB
To sum up his point, as we continue to infuse cash via credit or even better, deficit spending into the economy, that we have "demishing returns". It takes more and more credit to have the same effect on the economy, until you reach the point of saturation. The US is getting to that point.
You love to show Japan as your shinningGovernment Deficit Spending example, and he uses that as HIS proof of what will happen, and the effects of excessive goverment spending and dimishing returns on the credit market. Also, how it didn't work in Japan, and still drags on their economy to this day.
I think this meets your challange.
Thanks for playing, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.
George S| 2.6.13 @ 2:13PM
When were the financial markets turned into casinos? What regulations (year and House/Senate number please) were rescinded?
See, here we argue facts figures and realities. Generalized nonsense about how markets turn into casinos when not one single regulation was rescinded is just foolish babble.
Okay, I see it coming: Glass Steagall was repealed. What did that do? Well, it said that banks must be banks and not stock or insurance sellers. However, that only applied to their primary business. So financial institutions set up kiosks to sell insurance and stocks that were a secondary business, successfully avoiding Glass Steagall. That's why the law was repealed -- it was no longer effective.
And finally, Keynes lived and wrote when Medicare, 99-week unemployment insurance, and SSI disability WERE NOT YET IN EXISTENCE!!! So all this tripe only applies to government spending infrastructure and not transfers of wealth.
Good day.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 2:29PM
Yes, the:
1. repeal of Glass Steagal, and the consensus not to reel in banking activity of the newly merged financial institutions.
2. The Marquette decision of 1978
3. Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980
4. Alternative Mortgage Transactions Parity Act of 1982
5. Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994
6. Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, or Gramm-Leach-Bliley
Good day to your sir!!
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 2:30PM
And I would add, the general attitude of letting the SEC take a hands off approach to the financial services industry.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 2:44PM
And, I would add that The Rapist - Bill Clinton - was the guy who Repealed Glass Steagel.
1978 was during the Carter Admnistration.
1994 and 1999 were, again, The Rapist - Bill Clinton.
But, you already knew that, didn't you?
Of course you did.
Arnie| 2.6.13 @ 2:59PM
Oh, so you were opposed to the deregulation TLP?
Good. Yes, Democrats got onto the deregulation bandwagon, started by conservatives, and written in many cases by Republicans.
That's called taking responsibility.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 4:09PM
And Signed into Law, by The Rapist - Bill Clinton.
He OWNS it.
Not the Republicans.
Nice try.
George S| 2.6.13 @ 3:07PM
None of those amendments had anything to do with bundling mortgage securities that were purchased and sold by GSE's Fannie and Freddie. Without Fannie and Freddie those CRA mortgages may have never had a buyer and thus find their way into Wall Street. Or else it would have happened YEARS ago (notice the date on those?)
Read those regulations and tell me if they had anything to do with hiding risk to unsuspecting investors or had more to do with state to state restrictions.
Jack London| 2.6.13 @ 3:44PM
Still full of nonsense about the crash I see George.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 4:10PM
Still full of Sh*t about everything I see Jackass.
JayDick| 2.6.13 @ 12:03PM
Government spending props up the economy only very short term. Longer term (6 to12 months), it hurts. That's why the stimulus seemed to work, but then the economy weakened. That's why the economy boomed in the late 1990s; government spending was restrained.
Europe hasn't had real austerity. Real austerity means big cuts in government spending. Tax increases are not austerity.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 2:44PM
Are you related to Andy Dick?
Warrior| 2.6.13 @ 9:25PM
At least he's funnier than Dick Durbin.
markenoff| 2.6.13 @ 5:11PM
Why is federal spending good for the economy except when it is spent to actually accomplish a stated obligation of the federal government, to provide for the common defense? Better to have welfare recipients using their EBTs at strip clubs for lap dances than paying good wages to unionized aircraft makers to build C-17s?
BTW, when is Obama gonna come out and tell the rest of the world that the US military will no longer respond to their natural and man made humanitarian disasters? We can't afford to save Haiti from earthquakes, Bangladesh from cyclones or Macedonia from blizzards anymore.
JD| 2.6.13 @ 10:39AM
Our resident Leftists demand that we buy into their cooked statistic, "GDP", which counts all government spending, including payroll, but does not count private sector payroll.
Thus decreases in government spending directly decrease GDP. This is a tautology, not some "wisdom" about how government spending is crucial to the economy. What you've essentially said is that "reducing government spending cuts government spending!"
The replacement of government work with private sector work is at worst an even tradeoff, but your cooked number makes it look like a big loss.
The world must learn to never take any statistic produced by a Democrat at face value.
mike 3/505| 2.6.13 @ 3:38PM
Our resident Leftists demand that we buy into their cooked statistic, "GDP", which counts all government spending, including payroll, but does not count private sector payroll.
Thank You! Please repeat this long and loud, everywhere you can! Government spending is a NEGATIVE on GDP. In order to spend money, government must first take it from the private sector, either by taxation or borrowing...both of which are negatives.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 4:11PM
I'm wasted.
spike59| 2.7.13 @ 6:03AM
"we're out of money now"...guess who said that back in 2009, when the deficit was TRILLIONS less!
Here's a hint...it's the same guy who said, back in 2006:
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”
when cutting government spending is a 'driver of recession', it means the government is too damn big
George S| 2.6.13 @ 1:56PM
IF... IF... IF... IF... IF... IF... IF...
See, I am now an economist.
Pay me.
Doctor Right| 2.6.13 @ 7:59AM
Welcome to the United Socialist States of America.
NE-Conservative| 2.6.13 @ 8:47AM
Haven't you heard? Consumer Reports has completely analyzed the 'Affordable Care Act of 2010' and it will provide millions of people and small businesses with very cheap, affordable healthcare. And, anyone who says differently is just wrong. You can read all about it in the March 2013 issue - CR has been beating the drum in favor of this '0bamanable' act for months. In fact, they say 12.8 Million individuals and businesses are getting some $1.1 Billion in rebates from insurance companies that underspent on medical care! Do you know ANYONE who has gotten ANY of those dollars? According to CR, Healthcare HAPPY DAYS are here NOW!
GobBluthe| 2.6.13 @ 9:49AM
I have gotten two rebates. Both less than one dollar.
loulou| 2.6.13 @ 2:14PM
Consumer Reports is lefty crap.
mike 3/505| 2.6.13 @ 3:43PM
So now, we have acquiesced to the government determining what level of profit & overhead to service insurance companies must have, "because no one should profit excessively on other folks misery (illness)." When do we decide how much a car maker can profit "on the backs of folks need to have reliable transportation...food...an iPod?"
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 4:13PM
To each, according to their needs. From each, according to their ability.
Kwan| 2.6.13 @ 9:01AM
In case anyone hasn't caught on yet ObamaCare was designed to close businesses and raise unemployment so that Obama can grow his Welfare State. But Obama assures us that in his second term he will be laser-focused on what is definitely the problem of greatest concern for the American people: You guessed it Global Warming. Global Warming offers the leftist saboteurs more opportunities to further hogtie the economy and you can be sure they will be burning the midnight oil trying to figure out ways to accomplish this. The "Community Reinvestment Act" or a Home-for-Everyone whether or not they could afford it was the left's first terrorist attack on the economy. The economy was staggered but remained standing. The left is hoping that the draconian ObamaCare will finish what the Community Reinvestment Act started the implosion of the American economy. Free enterprise/capitalism is antithetical to the left's desperate struggle to achieve equality. The left would prefer the central government administrating a command and control economy which has resulted in Obama's war on free enterprise/capitalism.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 9:27AM
It's also designed to Kill Employer Provided Health Care. Kill Private Insurance Companies. And, Kill Independent George, and anyone else who yearns to be free.
Seriously.
How is this guy still alive!
Kwan| 2.6.13 @ 10:05AM
Once the population finds out what a disaster this ObamaCare is the Democrat Party will be on the road to extinction. And now the bad news.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 10:59AM
If this was the 1950's I'd be inclined to agree with you.
But it's not.
Go out and buy a TV Guide, and read it.
We're way past saving this Country.
The best we can hope for, is to make sure that we raise our kids right, and instill in them the Right Values, and the Right Frame of Mind.
I watch one show on Mondays, on Sci Fi. (Continuum) Two Shows on History2 - Ancient Aliens and The Universe. Seinfeld Reruns. The Golf Channel on Thursday and Friday Nights. And American Dad, every night on Adult Swim - on Cartoon Network - Mon thru Fri. at 10 and 10:30pm.
It is the Funniest Show anywhere.
What were we talking about?
Something about Pez Dispensors?
Alan| 2.6.13 @ 11:16AM
"If this was the 1950's I'd be inclined to agree with you"
I'll second that, the waking up and throwing trash like this POS in the WH to the curb days are long over. If nobody has woken up by now, then they are part of the walking brain dead. We are WAAAAAYYYY too far down the saving the situation road to salvage this train wreck. This is the choose your side time.
Right or wrong and good or evil and state or individual freedom. It always comes down to this sooner or later.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 12:39PM
And then, everybody dies.
Alan| 2.6.13 @ 1:11PM
Yep, and history repeats itself again because too many are too ignorant of it.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 2:46PM
You really need to come to The Contests.
Seriously.
loulou| 2.6.13 @ 2:15PM
You are an optimist.
Kwan| 2.6.13 @ 3:36PM
You got to wonder how dumb some voter would have to be to have Fraulein Sebelius and her Grim Reaper Death Panels hand out a death sentence to one of your relatives because of age or cost, and next election you run out and vote for a Democrat.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 4:15PM
Really?
Have you SEEN his Voters?
Pecos Pete| 2.6.13 @ 9:02AM
Oh ye of little faith! I'm with The Village Idiots who believe the economy is growing steadily, unemployment is declining, welfare payments of whatever nature are good for the economy, and KingOcare is free. Forward!
Kwan| 2.6.13 @ 10:01AM
Congratulations son you've drunken the leftist koolaid and now see the light. Just step over to the end of that line and await your monthly disbursement of Gub-a-Mint cheese. And don't be shy sing along with the others.
Mm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama
He said that all must lend a hand
To make this country strong again
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama
Pecos Pete| 2.6.13 @ 11:12AM
Snap! x 4.5.
Warrior| 2.6.13 @ 9:19PM
Pavlov.
loulou| 2.6.13 @ 2:16PM
Why not give the parasite class surplus cheese, powdered milk and powdered eggs instead of their Free Food Stamp Credit Card?
Kwan| 2.6.13 @ 3:35PM
You got to wonder how dumb some voter would have to be to have Fraulein Sebelius and her Grim Reaper Death Panels hand out a death sentence to one of your relatives because of age or cost, and next election you run out and vote for a Democrat.
TLP| 2.6.13 @ 4:16PM
Really?
Have you SEEN his Voters?
markenoff| 2.8.13 @ 11:12AM
According to Nancy Pelosi the best way to stimulate the economy is through unemployment benefits. So let's all go on unemployment. None of us have to work and the economy is perpetually stimulated with food, clotthing, houses, TVs etc. just appearing out of nowhere. From China I guess.
Dave Williams| 2.6.13 @ 9:24AM
.....and to the drones who voted for King Zero, this will matter not one whit. "He be cool....he give me a Obamaphone!" And they'll gladly help when he goes for his total power-grab in 2016.
Denver Todd| 2.6.13 @ 10:20AM
The minimum wage in California, where I assume Mr. Crocker operates, is $8 hourly. If an employee earns $10 hourly, lowing his wage to minimun wage would save $320 monthly, enough to offset the added cost of Obamacare. Then the employer can tell the employee that he is getting free healthcare.
Drunken Sailor| 2.6.13 @ 10:51AM
And then the state would raise the minimum wage and the employer is right back where he started.
Otis, my man!| 2.6.13 @ 10:55AM
Brandon,
You forgot to mention the "escape clause." I'm referring to a request for a waiver to the insurance requirement from a congressman.
I read (I think here in AmSpec) that last April Nancy Pelosi granted 42 waivers to the health insurance requirement for various restaurants, bars and hotels in her district.
Now I'm sure those waivers came with a quid pro quo, such as substantial contributions to the DNC.
I also wonder if she checked the contribution records (public) on these businesses. Would you care to speculate whether some businesses in her district were denied waivers if they were Republican contributors?
You can see the competitive disadvantage that a "Republican" hotel would be put at through use of the waiver process.
Thus do the Democrats permanently consolidate their power base, a la Hugo Chavez.
spike59| 2.7.13 @ 6:08AM
http://dailycaller.com/2011/05.....ncy-pelosi’s-district/
Who Knows?| 2.6.13 @ 11:36AM
“First capital controls, then a currency crisis, then expectations of sovereign default, then a rise in military tensions, and finally – price controls, after which all out chaos usually follows.”
From powerlineblog.com
Bubbles ALWAYS burst.
The crowd wakes up, in practically an instant, so although the economic scene SEEMS to be a-okay right NOW, epitomized by the CW understanding that the stock market is in a bull market, and at all-time “highs”, etc, there are always hidden factors working their magic, which eventually become exposed---and, THEN: it’s Katy bar the door.
I’ve long been amazed that the Fed has been able to expand the money supply for so long, and the “official” CPI hasn’t gone up much. I NOW think that’s where the still secret hiding variable resides---inflation is being reported as benign, but it’s really NOT.
What is going to prick the bubble?
The stage is set, that’s for sure. All the players are NOW in position, and boy do they know their lines, and are they ever eager for the curtain to rise, so they can give the performance of their lives, which they were born, and programmed, to do!
Obama unleashed!
He and his team are the mirror opposite of the Ayn Rand hero.
cicero| 2.6.13 @ 12:16PM
I love these period reports letting us know that happy days are here again. We still have depression level unemployment, particularly in the cities. The GDP is in minus numbers. They would be tragic if they didn't include banking transaction, and paper shuffles in the mix. These produce nothing but numbers for the stats boys to report. We are in a depression, and have been since this crew gtook over. They have only made it worse, and continuiing.
The difference between now and the '30s is that under Roosevelt's programs, you had to get off your rear and do something to get your check. The CCC required you work all day at hard labor. You learned something, if only what it tookl to get up, be on time, and stay on task. It motivated you to find bettter work. Even without WWII, there would have been a recovery, albeit slower due to government policies. This current government has slammed on the breaks, and seems intent on destroying the culture and the country.
Who Knows?| 2.6.13 @ 1:07PM
America and Americans are literally too fat and sick.
So, beneath and permeating all the DC "recession" concern, attention must be paid to basics---so, consider this:
“Health Care is truly what Natural Healing is, which is caring for your health. Call it Creating Powerful Health, not just CARING FOR IT.
What most Americans ca;; “health care” would more accurately be described as “disease care”. After all, people go to medical doctors for a check up, to check for and discover DISEASES. Then, when one is found, a course of medical DISEASE TREATMENT is suggested, such as chemical drugs or surgery. So DISEASE TREATMENT is a better name.
DISEASE TREATMENT implies that the disease is cured, which most often it is not. In reality, most chemical drugs are used to suppress or mask the symptoms of a disease, or even attempt to halt the progression, but not cure it! Often surgery is used to simply remove the diseased part, but still, NO CURE! That is why after most surgeries, within time, your body gets sick again. Even the AMA admits that modern medicine has absolutely no cure for the vast majority of all diseases. They only have treatments to minimize the symptoms and make you more comfortable while you literally rot away. So in fact, the most accurate name for this medical cover-up called Health Care would actually be Disease Suppression, Disease Retardation, Disease Maintenance, or at best Disease Management.
Who Knows?| 2.6.13 @ 1:08PM
So the bottom line is that the diseases are SUPPRESSED, DELAYED, RETARDED, MAINTAINED, and even MANAGED, but kept alive, and just maintained at low enough levels in your body, so the symptoms of your disease are tolerable. And when the symptoms are not tolerable, then a higher dose of numbing or suppressing medication is prescribed, or stronger medication, or even surgical intervention.
On the contrary, the basic principle of Natural Healing is that we will never be smart enough to outsmart God, or to know exactly how the human body works. So instead of getting in the way of what the body is already trying to do, or worse yet, thinking the body’s actions are a disease (fevers, headaches) and suppressing it, Natural Healing is instead a healing system based on belief in God, a belief in Nature, and a big dose of Common Sense.
STOP doing what makes you sick and START doing what will Create Powerful Health. And disease will leave your body.
I once had a medical doctor tell me, “A patient cured is money lost!” Considering the $2,000,000,000,000.00 (two trillion dollars) Americans spend every year on Disease Management, maybe this answers why disease is MANAGED in America, and not cured.”
Dr. Richard Schulze. At herbdocblog.com
cicero| 2.6.13 @ 1:29PM
Dr. Who Knows - you are right to a point. The body still wears out, and will eventually expire. To maintain a good level of health, moderation in all things is the trick. This is not a country that lends itself to moderation. That having been said, the body is not perfect, and the defects that show themselves have to be treated when discovered (defective heart valves, weak eyes, etc). The self-inflicted maladies, (diabetes, clogged arteries, smoked up lungs, etc), are another matter.
Much of our degenerative desease problem could be better dealt with by educating the population about proper diet, exercise, etc. However, we (don't) even educate them on basic reading, writing, history, and math. In addition, our popular culture, entertainment industry, and school system is counter productive. We teach 4th graders how to have sex; we advertize the worst possible food combinations we promote the consumption of alchohol in excessive quantities as been cool and sexy; and we push excess at all costs.
We have produced an expanded life expectancy without deaaling with the quality thereof.
Who Knows?| 2.6.13 @ 1:55PM
Cicero---as an old math major, I’ve always found the number line to be very useful, and when it comes to the body, well---
Let the left extreme be death and the right extreme the best health possible. Now, consider any chemicals that are chosen for the honor of entering the mouth, passing through the alimentary tract, and out the anus, kidney, skin, or any other place of release of waste.
We call it food. Well, there are foods that are “moderate”, say about at the zero point on the line. There are worse foods, like soda pop, etc, to the left of zero, all the way to poisons qua “food” which will instantly kill. To the right, there are better foods, all the way up to the best, life-bringing and enhancing foods.
Also, this food number line idea must be adjusted for the natural changes the passage of time brings, so that wisdom is to continue to modify the diet---a seventy year old doesn’t eat like a teenager!
Therefore, these dark diet days, for all kinds of reasons, most people in our mass consumer, cheap “food”, society, are not only living out arrested development, but they are continuing to “dumb down” their own children.
In essence, the taste buds trump the brain. Despite KNOWING that eating right is good for the body, and vice versa, people choose to titillate their sense of taste, and come hell or high-water---they are going to get their daily hits!
Then, it’s hello Medical Docs, with their potions and drugs, etc.
A sick society.
cicero| 2.6.13 @ 4:10PM
Dr. - I agree. While not a vegan or vegetarian (three of my daughters fall into those catagories), I do advocate "shopping the perimeter" of the grocery store. Stay away from the processed foods, and eat the good stuff in moderation. Grow what you can - multiple benefits of knowiong where it came from, and exercise that comes from doing the spade work. Meats in moderation, fish regularly, and you will live YOUR lifespan well. Eating too much, and way too much of the junk you describe and you will not live your prescribed life span, and what you do live will not be well.
Keep up the good food fight.
markenoff| 2.6.13 @ 5:17PM
We are 9 meals from anarchy. Wait until the EBT cards stop working.
Warrior| 2.6.13 @ 9:20PM
It will most likely be in the middle of a lap dance. Think about how cruel that would be.
GoodBusiness| 2.8.13 @ 11:18AM
Here is how to make DC powerless and without money to bribe people States and businesses.
Repeal the 14th, 16th and 17th amendments - restoring the original design of a weak federal government with few powers and strong State governments with many powers.
http://tinyurl.com/amuuajz
avafromtexas| 2.8.13 @ 4:14PM
This deceiving traitor has just about succeeded in crashing this economy ala Cloward-Piven.
Whatever outcome he receives in a backlash is well deserved
dickdata| 2.8.13 @ 6:13PM
I wish that there were some way to place a bet that the US economy doesn't collapse in the next four years. You guys have been alternately predicting depression and hyperinflation for the last four years. You should definitely pick one or the other.
stljoe| 2.8.13 @ 7:06PM
One thing that seems to be universally missing in the analysis of the Obama recession is that Q4 incomes were heavily heavily juiced up by bonuses and stock dividends that were pushed forward into 2012 to avoid Obama tax increases in 2013. While sandy was a headwind for the economy these one time cash windfalls were tailwinds. Without those the Obama caused contraction would likely have been much more severe.