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The Current Crisis
Lessons From the Ancient Mayans
What did them in? Who was their Obama?
SANTO TOMAS DE CASTILLA, Guatemala — Wherever is that, you ask? Generally this column comes to you from Washington, D.C. or New York City. Occasionally it comes from London or Paris. Yet today it carries the dateline of a seaport in Guatemala, and if it were written a day ago or two days hence it would carry the dateline of Belize. It is freezing up north. The inclement weather has driven me to tropical parts. Global warming sounds more and more agreeable to me, and frankly if you have your wits about you, to you too. The frozen remains of palm trees have supposedly been found in the melting ice of the poles. Well, that is good news. Bring together a village of Eskimos and notify them of the so-called perils of global warming and, my guess is, they would to a man and a woman all become vociferous advocates of man-made climate change or anthropogenic climate change, as the phrase has it. Think of it? Wearing a bikini in the North Pole. That is progress!
I am aboard the cruise ship Yorktown once again! Last summer we took an amiable crowd of National Review and American Spectator readers on a tour of the Great Lakes. This winter we have taken mainly AmSpec readers on a tour of the Mayan ruins in Belize and Guatemala with stops along the way to inspect the barrier reefs, fish life, and even to partake of snorkeling. Also, we are doing a good bit of basking in the sun and snickering at our friends up north.
Of particular interest is the Mayan civilization. It flourished in the jungles of these parts from roughly 1500 B.C. to 1521 A.D., whereupon it ceased. Gone, fini, vanished — just like that! No war nor pestilence nor plague has been detected by modern scholars seeking to explain its passing. There remain great stone edifices: temples, palaces, living-quarters — even evidence of sacred altars for human sacrifice. However, there is no extant evidence as to why Mayan civilization ceased. It was highly advanced with a written language and astronomical literacy. Yet no word has been found that anything was amiss before 1521 A.D. when it utterly ceased to function. There are Mayans around today, but none seems to know why he is not living atop a ruin in the jungle, perhaps with colorful feathers sticking in his hair and a fancy wand or whatever those sticks are that his ancestors are pictured carrying. I doubt it has even occurred to a modern-day Mayan to reclaim a palace or one of the splendid temples in the jungle even for an occasional ritual sacrifice. Perhaps they are too polite. Modern-day Mayans seem to prefer to hang around the village gas station.
American Indians make all manner of extravagant claims on the federal government, some of which have resulted in extravagant restitution. The modern-day Mayans make no such claims down here in Belize or Guatemala. They seem to prefer hanging out at the gas station to taking over a temple or palace. Why does not a local Mayan huckster with a huckster’s gift for dramaturgy and eloquence simply take over a Mayan ruin and declare it his own? Maybe he could even collect taxes. Surely he could take his case to the United Nations or the World Court. Possibly today’s Mayans have suffered a huge failure of the imagination. Possibly it began back in 1521 A.D. when the Mayan civilization went poof. Have modern scholars detected in the records of the ancient Mayans any signs of an awareness of mounting economic problems, of an accumulating unsustainable national debt or of entitlements leading to bankruptcy? The Mayans boasted a rich hieroglyphic language. Is there a word in old Mayan for entitlement? How in Mayan would one spell Obamacare?
The other day as I tripped over a Mayan ruin, some dismal thoughts did occur to me. Could we go the way of the Mayans? Well, I doubt we would leave no evidence of the cause of our demise. True, our godlike leader has never fretted about the problems of entitlements or of unsustainable national debt. If he ever thought seriously about the IOUs being wrung up by the government, he would never have wasted years trying to bring down on us yet another unsustainable entitlement, Obamacare. But there are other leaders in other branches of government who are immensely worried about the perilous state of our economy and about the drift of our leaders away from the Constitution. In the courts, in the House of Representatives, and in the states there is mounting concern that the Progressives in Washington are en route to national decline, if not the end of civilization as we know it.
I had better get back to Washington. There is work to be done.
About the Author
R. Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. is the founder and editor in chief of The American Spectator. He is the author of The Death of Liberalism, published by Thomas Nelson Inc. His previous books include the New York Times bestseller Boy Clinton: the Political Biography; The Impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton; The Liberal Crack-Up; The Conservative Crack-Up; Public Nuisances; The Future that Doesn’t Work: Social Democracy’s Failure in Britain; Madame Hillary: The Dark Road to the White House; The Clinton Crack-Up; and After the Hangover: The Conservatives’ Road to Recovery.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (127) | Leave a comment
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Job| 1.31.13 @ 7:27AM
However, there is no extant evidence as to why Mayan civilization ceased.
I think they probly tried to build a Dreamliner plane but the largess was a sign of deeper culltural rot where politics and bullying took precedence over excellence.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 11:09AM
Didn't people who spoke Spanish invade their Country, and turn it into a Craphole?
Hmmmmm.
Why does that sound so familiar?
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 2:13PM
Contest tomorrow, Job, at Mr. Bowman's house.
Figure it out.
You won't be disappointed.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 2:43PM
Tuesday.
Seek| 1.31.13 @ 11:34AM
The main problem with Mayan "civilization" is that it wasn't very civilized in the first place. Its collapse upon the arrival of the Spaniard was virtually inevitable. Mel Gibson's 2006 movie, "Apocalypto," was very telling.
Job| 1.31.13 @ 7:33AM
Lao Tzu circa 600 BC: If you want to shrink something, you must first allow it to expand. If you want to get rid of something, you must first allow it to flourish.
This is Chinas American policy now too but the Mayans succumed to it first.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 10:33AM
Guatemala?
Did you happen to notice if Robert Menendez was hanging around outside any of the High Schools, there, flashing a Wad a Cash?
Job| 1.31.13 @ 12:19PM
dunno but maybe all Lao Tzu needed was another blue pill.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 2:15PM
If Lao Tzu had been in The Contest, two weeks ago?
He coulda Won one of Mine.
Contest tomorrow at Mr. Bowman's house.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 2:43PM
Tuesday.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 7:38AM
R. Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. is a stupid man, and this is a stupid column.
If you guys are interested in the fall of seemingly healthy civilizations and/or societies, read Jared Diamond's, Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed.
Ron M.| 1.31.13 @ 8:14AM
Were you born this great an @ss or did you work at it? Can you even make a positive coment?
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 10:01AM
Naw Ron, our Arnie is a natural. His a**holiness comes instinctively; it's a gift that flows, just like Obozo's bullcrap, and Hillary's fake tears.
loulou| 1.31.13 @ 10:44AM
Arnie is getting paid to take up space. You know that, don't you?
AlanAnti-RoveCheneyBrooks | 1.31.13 @ 8:32AM
Arnie, I do not address these contrarians anymore, but you are no fool and you see what they will do: they will run yet another second rate candidate (only three years till the NH primary) for POTUS. They are merely stringing us along now, no pretense of coherence, only confrontation. Without Reagan, they are nothing.
Arn, don't let them intimidate you-- not that you would.
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 10:36AM
Hmmm, reincarnation hasn't worked out too well for you either, has it, AlanAnti?
You're progressing backwards, just like your leader leads from behind.
It must be a lefty kinda thing.
AlanAnti-RoveCheneyBrooks | 1.31.13 @ 11:08AM
Arn,
tell Tony to go ahead, run more losing candidates, waste his time, our time, everyone's time.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 11:31AM
Anthony thinks Sarah Palin is brilliant. He got swindled by her, sent her money, and thinks she's going to make a comeback.
I actually feel sorry for the guy.
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 11:54AM
My, my, Brooksie and Arnie, the Laurel and Hardy of TAS, walking proof that evolution is indeed a myth, feel sorry for me!! Must be my luck day.
Actually boys, and I'm giving you both the benefit of the doubt on that one, my money was well spent on Sarah Palin, and will be again.
But if you must know where I did lose my shirt, it was :
1) Buying Slick wee Willie's cigar humidor.
Nothing but used El Productos.
2) Finding out my Algore Carbon Credits ain't worth s**t.
3)Buying Obozo's membership card to the Swanky Gents Bath House in Chicago, only to find it has expired.
4) Buying an sending Hillary a get well card.
See ya both in the hood, boys.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 12:56PM
You're right Anthony. All you Republican losers should vote for nominate Sarah Palin for 2016!!!
Where are the YEAs?
Anti-Statist| 1.31.13 @ 1:05PM
And you will be told by your betters to support the Bitch of Benghazi when she runs in 2016.
Stephie| 1.31.13 @ 1:23PM
Ooooo! I like that Anti! The Bitch of Benghazi! You didn't copyright this did you , 'cause I'm using it!
Arnie, why are you here? You're like that fly that landed on barry's face the other day, ugly and annoying. Can you just slither on back to MoveOn, MediaMatters of the Huffo and leave us alone! Go get a life!
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 4:20PM
Wow, that's the best you can do troll Arnie? Tell ya what troll, I'll sell you Obozo's expired membership card to the Swanky Gents Bath House, and my oversized Muslim prayer rug, that I bought online at Allibabba's & Sons ripoff and emporium, for the same price as my donation to Sarah Palin.
I also see by your anemic response to my post, you don't deny your dear leader leads a double life. I think you'd enjoy the company at Swanky Gents, it's your kind of place.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:04PM
Still waiting for you to respond, Arnie...
Don't think we didn't notice.
Anti-Statist| 1.31.13 @ 1:01PM
With Obama, your side is less than nothing. What you dupes can't see is that you won a battle yourselves, but you proclaim the war as won.
Fools, knaves, and malefactors, the whole lot of you.
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.31.13 @ 9:28AM
I have read Diamond's *Collapse*. He is not always reliable in his historical reporting. In any case, I don't see what it has to do with RET and the Mayans.
Al Adab| 1.31.13 @ 3:37PM
Even National Geographic takes exception to Diamonds' specious hypothesis. I too read Collapse and decided it was just money making alarmist prop.
Al Adab| 1.31.13 @ 3:37PM
Even National Geographic takes exception to Diamonds' specious hypothesis. I too read Collapse and decided it was just money making alarmist prop.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 9:46AM
We are all still waiting for you to prove how much you know about science and evolution by trying to answer a few of the questions posed to you in yesterday's forum.
Or are you going to chicken-out again, today?
Drunken Sailor| 1.31.13 @ 3:35PM
Dr. I think he is still working on the math or digging for those missing links. He reminds me of Jack London. Hit them with a fact they can't spin and poof.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 9:53AM
BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!!!
Oh, yeah...that Jared Diamond! What a genius!
You see guys...it's not pathetically ignorant economic policies (Obama), a blind adherence to failed ideologies like socialism (Obama), crony-capitalism (Obama), disastrous fiscal polices like "QE 1, QE II," etc, (Obama), taxation that punishes the wealth creators to reward the slackers (Obama), out-of-control spending (Obama), or a complete refusal to secure the nation's borders (Obama)...
No...according to this dim-wit Jared Diamond (and his acolyte Arnie), societies fail because of...
POOR ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY!
BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!!!!
Arnie...you're a shining gem of Liberalism! You and the "Wizards of Smart" like this guy Diamond are constant reminders of why Liberalism succeeds at all:
Because there are so many fools out there willing to believe absolute nonsense.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 10:01AM
Allow me to correct my earlier post.
Arnie DID, in fact, respond to yesterday's queries on evolution and creationism.
He responded this morning. At 6:53 AM. On yesterday's article (which no one is reading today). Here's the sum total of Arnie's brilliant response:
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 6:53AM
Wow, it seems some of you anti-evolution tards blew a gasket in regards to my comments. Although, funny, you don't seem angry at the other people here that know evolution is real.
By the way, Doctor Right, you are a singularity, in the sense that you are matter that became extremely dense.
Anyway, here's another example a religious Republitard, from the proud Confederate state of Louisiana.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/f.....slim-ones/
Arnie...you were called-out yesterday. And like the ignorant l'il lib-coward you are, you ducked the questions.
You have neither the knowledge base nor the skills to debate me, or anyone else on this forum, on anything related to "science," either your definition, or ours.
You're a fraud. And a joke.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 10:49AM
Actually, I think the two of you would be a good fight.
For Obvious Reasons.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 11:40AM
Doctor Right, I'm not going to debate someone that doesn't believe in science and thinks evolution is not real. There are many Republicans that think your view is absurd. You are something like a Middle Ages superstitious fool, and obviously sometype of religious fanatic.
So again, is evolution not real? Did all the animals and plants, and man just magically appear one day?
You assume there was an intelligent God that started our universe, but you have no proof. I make no ridiculous assertion like that. You have to prove to me your opinion, jackass.
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.31.13 @ 1:24PM
You are sadly mistaken if you think science and evolution are the same thing.
Stephie| 1.31.13 @ 1:25PM
And you have no proof for your "theory".
SO SHUT UP~
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:06PM
Read. Scientists write this stuff....ooh, you know, like the guys that developed your microwave.
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11876
Or you could base your ideas of biology on a book that is based on the oral stories of illiterate desert tribes from the Middle East over 2000 years ago. Do you still think slavery, multiple wives, and ratings are ok? Or do you just ignore that part of the Bible?
I'm sure people never exaggerated or told big fish stories back then. All those Biblical stories must be true!!
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:08PM
Correction: rapings*
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:12PM
So you think that the ancient Israelites were an "illiterate desert tribe"???
So in addition to being ignorant of science, you also don't know much about history. What a shock...
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:27PM
Yes, Doctor Right, most of the people of the middle east of 2000 years ago were illiterate. But you probably "think" otherwise.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:32PM
You didn't say "most of the people," Arnie.
In reference to the Bible, which was written by Hebrews, you said "illiterate desert tribe."
Now, here's the thing...since it was written down, that means the people who wrote it weren't illiterate.
In addition, what is your proof source for the statement that "most of the people of the middle east of 2000 years ago were illiterate"???
If you say "common sense," then that's not very scientific, is it, Mr. Science-lover..???
So now that you're attempted to obfuscate - again - answer the question:
HOW did the universe begin??
Tick-Tock...
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:37PM
I told you Jackass, I guess you're illiterate....?!?
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:50PM
Sorry, I didn't see your reply below before I made that post.
Al Adab| 1.31.13 @ 4:25PM
Very long thread here, but allow me to recite to Arnie:
Sura 17:31 "You shall not kill your children for fear of want. To kill them is a great sin.
OR Sura 30:56 "In this Koran we have set forth for men all manner of arguments. Yet if you recite to them a single verse, the unbelievers will surely say, ' You are preaching falsehoods.' Thus God seals the hearts of ignorant men."
OR Sura 31:18 "Do not treat men with scorn, nor walk proudly on the earth: God does not love the arrogant and the vainglorious... the harshest of voices is the braying of the ass."
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:08PM
You asked several specific questions, yesterday.
I guess you really didn't want the answers?
You won't debate because you can't. I would embarrass and humiliate you, and demonstrate what a fraud and ignoramus you really are.
I can reveal more proof about the existence of God in one post than you can about the sham known as "Darwinian evolution" in...oh, 160 years.
You're a coward, Arnie. If you're so smart, and so right, you'd relish the chance to make a dumb ole' "fundie" like me look bad.
But you can't.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:11PM
Go right ahead fundie!!! Prove the existence of an intelligent God!!! Do it it!! You'll be the second coming, heck...ROFL
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:13PM
Answer the question, Arnie. It's a simple one:
HOW did the universe begin???
No more games. No more obfuscation. Just answer the question.
Scared?
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:18PM
The clock is ticking...
And Arnie is hiding...
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 2:44PM
And, you're an Idiot.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:51PM
Perhaps, but compared to you, I'm the Chairman of MENSA.
Al Adab| 1.31.13 @ 3:39PM
As a famous rabbi once said, "Two things about theology I know. One: There is a God and 2: I am not He."
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 4:43PM
I agree.
Your the Chairman of the Mens Room.
Good luck with that.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:10PM
YES.
Darwinian evolution is NOT real. And it has NEVER been proven real. It has never been observed to happen, either.
Darwinism is a straw-man.
Now answer my question:
HOW did the universe begin?
(You won't answer because perhaps you know that the answer completely debunks Darwinism.)
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:19PM
All we know is that there was a massive explosion, from what we think was a singular point, about 13.8 billion years ago. Sub atomic particles formed, then hydrogen, then basically everything following that...
We don't know what happened before that at all. We do know the universe has been expanding since then, but we also don't know what is outside our universe, nor do we know for certain that other universes exist.
That's it. If you assert that you know what happened before the big bang, you are a liar,or crazy.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:23PM
So, where is your proof of this intelligent God? Where is your proof that Jesus was the messiah?
So I guess in your world, the Jews just missed that, huh?
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:36PM
See my answer; you're not there yet.
There's some more simple questions to answer.
(I can't convince you of the Divinity of Christ until you understand the origins of the universe; that's like teaching Shakespeare to someone who can't even read).
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:38PM
That's what is called a 'cop out'.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:40PM
No. It's not.
My questions are simple, straightforward, and contain NO tricks.
I merely need to ascertain your starting point.
Just answer. It's not hard.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:42PM
Let me put it another way:
Until you believe in God, you'll never believe in Christ.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:48PM
The Jews did not "miss" the fact of Christ's divinity; they rejected it.
Not all, to be sure. Most of the disciples were Jews, as was Christ, himself.
But the leadership of the Jews in Jerusalem rejected Christ, and had him crucified. And the Jewish people could have spared him, but they chose Barrabas the murderer, instead.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:35PM
"All we know is that there was a massive explosion, from what we think was a singular point, about 13.8 billion years ago. Sub atomic particles formed, then hydrogen, then basically everything following that..."
OK...And HOW do we know this??
Regarding this "singular point," was it composed of all the matter in the known universe, compressed into a particle of infinite mass???
If not, then how would you describe it?
And how did the sub-atomic particles "form"? Or, more to the point...why?
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:47PM
How do we know? We can take pictures of the young universe? There's tons of evidence, not only visual, but you have been able to measure the temperatures and past radiations of the universe.
Read a book Doctor Right!! Geez..
But how about you tell me, because I think you think you know more than all the scientists of the world.
http://news2global.blogspot.cz.....e.html?m=1
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:53PM
You misunderstand; I don't reject "science." I embrace it.
You, however, believe nothing but supposition which passes for fact.
Can you describe this "evidence" you speak of? If there's "tons" of it?
The "young universe"?
Sorry, Arnie, but a blog???
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:58PM
Do you prefer links from NASA? Tell me.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:05PM
Links from NASA on what, exactly???
And don't kid yourself...if they believe that the universe is a random occurrence then they're just as wrong as you are, despite their fancy degrees and their cool toys.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:08PM
A picture is not proof. I can show you a ton of pictures that could lead you to a conclusion that has nothing to do with what you actually think you're seeing.
For someone who claims to love science, you sure don't understand it's basic precepts.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:46PM
"We do know the universe has been expanding since then, but we also don't know what is outside our universe, nor do we know for certain that other universes exist."
There is NO scientific proof that "other universes" exist.
ZERO.
So the statement is misleading; it's not about uncertainty, it's about science, remember??
These theoretical physicists like Michio Kaku and Stephen Hawking are brilliant men in their own right, but the stories they tell about "String theory" and "parallel universes" are nothing but conjecture. There is NO proof. No science.
It's fantasy. Not like the Bible, though.
REAL fantasy.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:52PM
Yes, we have mathematical models that predict other universes but we have yet to observe one. Now, there was a time when people thought there were no other solar systems, or that the earth was the center of the solar system, but after some bright guys worked out some math...
I feel like I'm typing to a 10 year old, do I need to explain this stuff to you?
Doctor Right, you are not bright
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:56PM
Anyway, you haven't provided squat, nor have you challenged any of my assertions. You believe in the big bang? Good for you!! That an improvement over some of your Christian ancestors!!
Again, prove to me an intelligent god exists! You can't, because all you have is blind faith in an invisible man in the sky. Just admit you it you fool. That's all your faith is.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:00PM
Let's play "Science!"
Do you know the difference between a Law, a Theory, and a Hypothesis?
What is the Law of Conservation of Matter?
What is the Law of Conservation of Energy?
What is the 1st Law of Thermodynamics?
Answer these, and maybe you'll see how your definition of the universe's origin is sorely lacking.
Or, maybe you're worried about the answer?
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:02PM
Actually, I have a B.Science in Biology.
The blind faith you speak of is all on your side, Arnie. You belief the scribblings of "scientists" that you don't understand and can't explain.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:03PM
And what is DNA?
How does it function?
What is it's purpose?
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:56PM
"Yes, we have mathematical models that predict other universes but we have yet to observe one."
Do you think that means it's proven???
You're joking, right? A "mathematical model" can predict ANYTHING.
And by your own admission a parallel universe has "yet to be observed."
But you believe it??
And you don't believe in God? Because you said you see "no proof"?
Do you realize that you've contradicted yourself???
Actually, I'm 46. And there's not a thing you've written that I haven't heard before, although most of the people I've talked to understood it far better than you seem to...
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 3:13PM
No, I didn't say it proved it. Do other universes scare you man? I have not said there is proof of other universes. Jeez, Doctor Right, you never took a physics, mathematics, chemistry, or biology 101 course, did you? This is basic stuff man. And you have to be able to know the difference between a scientific theory, a collection of proven hypotheses, and the colloquial theory, like my theory is Obama is a Muslim. Understand the difference?
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_theory.html
If you are interested in String theory and the origins of the universe, I suggest you research and read about them.
Maybe this would be a good primer for you.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/p.....verse.html
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:22PM
Do other universes "scare me"??
What a bizarre question!
No, they don't "scare me" anymore than the Easter Bunny "scares me". Why would they? They are nothing more than fanciful conjecture promoted by frustrated theoretical physicists who need to get published so they can maintain their tenure.
As I already said, I have a Bachelor of Science Degree in Biology. That included a great deal of upper-level (not "101," although those were prerequisites) courses in cell biology, cytology, genetics, parasitology, chemistry, organic chemistry, physical chemistry, as well as electives in sociobiology, ichthyology, oceanography, and marine biology. And I graduated "Cum Laude," meaning "With Honors."
Not that I need to toot my own horn, Arnie, but I understand ALL of this stuff far better than you do - and that includes "String Theory," which has NO basis in fact whatsoever (I guess you didn't get the memo?).
Sorry, Arnie, but none of what you say is "basic stuff, man." It's rubbish, backed-up by conjecture, supported by fantasy and wishful thinking.
To that end, you are NOT a man of science, no matter how much you'd like to think you are. Watching "Star Trek" is not the same thing as an actual education.
You don't even understand what the difference is between a Law, a Theory, and a Hypothesis.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 3:33PM
HA!! and you don't believe in evolution, what school did you go to?
Well I took plenty of physics, and chemistry classes at my university and also graduated with honours.
But I guess you may question electromagnetic theory, even though we've been using it for over a hundred years. So which theories do you like and not like? Did you go to a Christian "school"?
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:52PM
The University of Massachusetts.
They have one of the premiere biological science departments in the Northeast.
They're also very Liberal. You'd have liked it there.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:58PM
And no, I don't question electromagnetic theory.
Why would I?
I also don't have any issues with Einstein's Theory of Relativity. I don't pretend to understand it, but I have no issues with it.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:11PM
Can't believe I overlooked this quote of yours, Arnie:
"We don't know what happened before that at all."
PRECISELY!!! And yet, by logic, something DID happen.
Now extrapolate to the most logical conclusion...
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 3:17PM
Doctor Right, we have no evidence of anything, you can't make a scientific assertion based on the LACK of evidence. What you are saying, is in fact, not logical. Something, or nothing, or a multitude of huge events could have happened, but we have no idea. I'm content with that. You have problems with admitting you just don't know.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:24PM
You're absolutely wrong.
We have a great deal of evidence about a lot of things.
Arnie...what is the most thoroughly proofed and fact-checked document from antiquity?
Also...did the Roman Empire really exist?
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:26PM
What you don't understand is that I'm not really even interested in what EXACTLY happened because, and to your point, we will likely never know.
What I'm interested in, and what I'm trying to have you explore is causality.
Are you familiar with Kalam's Cosmological Argument?
It is named after the Kalām tradition of Islamic discursive philosophy through which it was first formulated. In Arabic, the word Kalām means "words, discussion, discourse." The cosmological argument was first introduced by Aristotle.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 3:39PM
Now you're just changing the subject. I'm going to have some of the best beer in the world and hang out with my beautiful wife.
Another day? Ok?
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 3:41PM
Those subjects actually sound interesting.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:56PM
Parasitology has stuck with me for 20 years.
You would not believe some of the disgusting microscopic critters that lurk out there...
Cook your meat, Arnie. And even if you like it medium/rare, get a meat thermometer.
And unless you want testicles the size of basketballs (and a shopping cart to carry them in - NO LIE), never, ever go tubing in a river in Africa...
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 3:53PM
It's a free country, and no doubt your wife is far more appealing than I am.
Let's agree on something: What kind of beer?
Micro-brew?
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 4:10PM
Kocour, it's a Czech brew and I got a place that has it on tap. Delicious.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 4:18PM
Nice!
Is it a Pilsener, or more of an ale?
I've had some nice brews from eastern Europe in the last year. WARKA (Poland) and BALTIKA (Russia) are two that stand out.
My most recent "beer crush" is Brooklyn Ale. They make a fantastic winter ale, as does Smuttynose Brewery.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 4:44PM
God, I hate these two guys.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 5:18PM
You dislike anyone who gets the attention that your infantile mind thinks you deserve simply for showing up.
Your clown-shoes are untied...
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 10:46AM
Why would we read that? We're LIVING IT right now.
All Hail the Halfrican King.
All Hail his Mighty Economy.
All Hail his Mighty Foreign Policy.
All Hail his Mighty Energy Policies.
All Hail his Mighty Monetary Policies.
All Hail his Phoney Numbers on Everything.
All Hail his Trillion $ Defecits.
All Hail his $6,000,000,000,000 in New Debt. (Soon to be twice that)
All Hail his Mighty Immigration Plan, that will be the Final Nail in our Coffin, as it has been for every Great Civilization throughout History.
Jarred Diamond?
If you like him? Then he must be even Stupider than you are.
Read what I wrote, and then go Listen to Neil Diamond.
Al Adab| 1.31.13 @ 1:58PM
TLP:
In case you missed it yesterday, apology accepted and understood. All is well.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 2:17PM
I'm very happy to hear that.
I don't know what went wrong.
Contest tomorrow at Mr. Bowman's house.
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 2:45PM
Tuesday.
Al Adab| 1.31.13 @ 3:41PM
From time to time the thread gets comments out of order. No problem.
Anti-Statist| 1.31.13 @ 1:02PM
I'd rather read Gibbon.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 2:31PM
Gibbon is a fantastic historian. He wrote a great history of the early Christians, and said, "The primtive Christians perpetually trod on mystic ground, and their minds were exercised by the habits of believing in the most extraordinary events."
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:39PM
Which "primitive Christians" is Mr. Gibbon referring to?
There were a lot, and they didn't all have uniform beliefs or practices.
In fact, Paul spent a great deal of time (and wrote a lot of letters and missives) to try and correct the ones who veered off-course.
Mr. Gibbon may be a "fantastic historian," but your non-contextual quote makes him sound like a fool.
Arnie| 1.31.13 @ 3:22PM
Doctor Right, I suggest you read Christians and the Fall of Rome. There is a great story in there about how the early Christians, to prove how mystical they were, had been claiming to bring the dead back to life. So there was some Greek (I think) pagan king that told one of his, Christian leaders "show me the raising of the dead, and I will convert to Christianity." Predictably, the Christian leader turned down the kings offer.
benny havens| 1.31.13 @ 7:57AM
One day Washington DC will be roped off and the only people allowed in will be visitors with visas. The large stone buildings will be empty, with cobwebs draping the entrances. Visitors will only be allowed to roam the streets and the surrounding grounds.
A plaque will be stationed at the entrance to the city:
GROUND ZERO
Where the Great Republic was put to Death
OP4| 1.31.13 @ 8:18AM
You give future generations too much credit. The crumbling edifices will simply part of scenery as they go about their lives.
The citizens of Athens and Rome don't recall anything as they drive past their ancestors' ruins. Not why they succeeded or why they eventually failed. It just doesn't penetrate.
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 10:08AM
Not a bad idea benny, but perhaps we can just turn Washington into one large zoo.
Yes, complete with bars and open spaces, so we visitors can watch the creatures who inhabit Washington behave in their natural habitat.
But please, DON'T FEED THE ANIMALS.
doramin| 1.31.13 @ 6:12PM
Not quite, benny.
In the very near future The Imperial City will be indeed "roped off". Like Moscow and Beijing, people will need special permission and a stamp in their internal passports to visit or live inside the Beltway. While the rest of the country suppurates...
Insert "Hunger Games" reference here.
cicero| 1.31.13 @ 8:32AM
When you live by the philosophy, "The world began when I was born, and it will end when I die.", what do you expect? Then again, since you will never die, you have nothing to worry about. Everything will just keep perking along.
What, me worry? I have more inportant things to think about. Such as the Super Bowl; who Melissa Gilbert (who?) is going to marry; who will win an Oscar; why some billionaire sports team owner is so cheap he won't pay a player more money in one season than I will earn if I work 150 years. And you want me to worry about the future? What future?
Hardcard| 1.31.13 @ 9:14AM
All those Mayans are not dead and gone, they moved north and are working the lawncare industry in the USA, just some of the 11 or 15 million soon to be US Citizens by executive royal order of king O. Hey you didn't build that !!!
TLP| 1.31.13 @ 11:05AM
I happen to know for a fact, that there's a whole Mayan Village that uprooted itself, and moved to Danbury, Ct.
THE WHOLE VILLAGE.
I'm pretty sure that Anthony can Corroborate that.
PJ| 1.31.13 @ 9:16AM
I'm beginning to think that when a society is so morally corrupted, bad events that could have been overcome had the society the backbone but instead accelerated its slide to implosion or at least irrelavancy . Ancient Athens, Rome, many of the Chinese Dynasties, & 16th century Spain are a few examples.
The Mayans along with their cousins the Atzecs, were also morally corrupted. The movie, Apocalypto gives an idea how corrupted they were. Also don't forget the Spanish expeditions to the Americas & the events of Our Lady of Guadalupe which led to its demise & eventual peaceful rebirth.
JmsA| 1.31.13 @ 5:35PM
In the Sixteenth century Spain was ascendant and not imploding or decaying, as you have posited, PJ. Spain was actually, beginning with the conclusion of the Reconquista (from the Moors/Islam)1492, and followed by the discovery and colonization of the Americas, well on its way to forging the first global empire, as far as the Philippines, while acquiring and ruling large segments of Western Europe and North Africa. In other words, instead of imploding, as you claim, they were in the middle of what is called "El Siglo de Oro" or the Golden Century or Golden Age. Said era or epoch of incredibly rapid growth and advancement, not only political, military and financial, but also in the arts and literature, did not politically end until 1659, with the Treaty of the Pyrenees, between France and the Hapsburg House, and militarily with the defeat of the Spanish Tercios in the Battle of Rocroi in 1643.
JmsA| 1.31.13 @ 5:38PM
The actual end of said era, culturally speaking, is commonly held to have occurred with the passing of the last great writer of the period, Pedro Calderon de la Barca, in 1681. Thereafter, with the dawn of 17th Century, and the continued deterioration stemming from the rule of the Hapsburgs, coupled with the increasing strain put upon it by the advent and expansion of the British Empire, the conquest of the Spain by Napoleon, with the soon to follow loss of most of his American colonies, save for those in the Caribbean, as well as its holdings in the Philippines, Spain began its final descent into oblivion. In short, it was a gradual decline, but it was hardly an implosion. There's a reason why Philip IV of Spain, who ruled from 1621 to 1665, was called "Rey Planeta" or King Planet, as it were, for he ruled the World from his throne in Spain.
PJ| 1.31.13 @ 6:37PM
"In the Sixteenth century Spain was ascendant and not imploding or decaying..."
Wrong. Spain never totally recovered from their defeat from the British in 1588-------Remember the Spanish Armada. Historians considered that defeat the start of Spain's downfall & of England's ascent to world power.
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.31.13 @ 9:30AM
Probably Mayan civilization was top heavy. It's monumental productions were probably a result of temporary enthusiasm, but its economy was unable to sustain that level of production. One little epidemic, or one little war, would be enough to crash the whole thing.
Doctor Right| 1.31.13 @ 2:15PM
It was the pointy heads...
C. Vernon Crisler | 1.31.13 @ 8:37PM
Some Indians practiced skull modification, so you may be right. ;-)
Harry the Horrible| 1.31.13 @ 9:31AM
We're not going the way of the Maya.
We're going the way of ancient Rome: invading barbarians, rising enemy empires, bread and circuses, overextended military, bankruptcy, more taxes and more convoluted taxes, debased currency, mad emperors, whimsical and nonsensical laws, low birthrates, etc.
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 9:45AM
Hey Emmett, being of Italian extraction, next time you guys set sail on a cruise, I'd like to be your ship's Captain.
I promise to steer clear of rocks, keep my girlfriend off my lap while navigating, not to call my mommy when we do capsize, AND, I promise not to be the first one to abandon ship.
I also promise to wear my favorite shirt, with the inscription: VADA A BORDO, CAZZO. (Don't look it up, it's raunchy)
Drunken Sailor| 1.31.13 @ 3:51PM
VADA A BORDO, CAZZO
Now that's funny!
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 4:31PM
D.S. I'm glad you appreciate it, I thought you might.
Bob K| 1.31.13 @ 10:13AM
Mr. Tyrrell,
The first five sentences of this article explain why Journals of Political Opinion, like AS here, are becoming increasingly irrelevant.
In a country as huge as the USA is, situated as it is in the temperate zone, and over 2000 miles wide, lying between two great oceans; you guys never get out to see any part of it beyond the portion bounded between Boston and Washington DC!
Inclement weather your ***! How about getting off it and touring America with your writers and listening to the people who live there before it ends up with the Mayans in History?
It can't cost much more than London or Paris and it will benefit the local economies.
At least Ben Stein travels to and fro between American Fleshpots by common carrier!
Who Knows?| 1.31.13 @ 10:16AM
To everything, turn, turn, turn, there is a season.
Cycles within cycles within cycles---or, turtles, all the way down.
As I get closer to discarding the body-mind I seem to have coalesced as in 1942, many attachments are happily being seen through, and naturally discarded. One of the most deeply programmed of these is to space-time, in the form-process of America-1942 until say 2042. In short, patriotism, or concern for “my” country, is beginning to be laughable.
Why, even racism is actually all about transcendentally busting my gut!
If people simply accepted that reincarnation is true, they could at least imagine SOME connection with that Mayan from 1521AD, or some Chinese from 258 BC, or some African from 1789 AD, etc. As it is, the hidden assumption (there is NO reincarnation) is simply a basic example of the contraction of Being, of the apparent separation of this from that. “I am too separate, and don’t you forget it!” That’s the eternal permeating message---bottom line.
About the ongoing decline of the American experiment, I think Niall Ferguson is a must read. How can any serious well-read person doubt that the USA is imploding, despite all the attention to dollars, unemployment rates, profits, welfare, etc?
Choices are made. And, what determines these?
Culture---or, the totality of individual’s actions, which are based on from-birth brainwashing.
The public “schools”, cradle to grave, work their magic.
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 10:24AM
Reincarnation is overrated. Look at Arnie, Purp and vtwin, they still come back as a**holes.
Who Knows?| 1.31.13 @ 1:21PM
Reincarnation doesn't preclude coming back as an animal.
It does include the potential to come back to a "lower" life than the previous one.
K K K K K Karma.
You lynch a black man. Next life you are a black man who gets lynched. Like that.
That's why Jesus' admonition to treat your neighbor as yourself rings true. He IS your "self", maybe in a future life.
Don't pinch yourself--that's my advice to anyone who hates pain and suffering, and there are myriad ways to "pinch".
Anthony| 1.31.13 @ 4:27PM
Well Who, that certainly explains the existence of Arnie, Purp, vtwin and & Brooksie.
It's amazing how low a lower life form you can become.
Well, things could be worse, one could come back as Bill Clinton.
Hardcard| 1.31.13 @ 11:55AM
You know what hillary said, "It takes a Village" not hers, yours, she also said, " At this point, what difference does it make"? Hey ! You didn't build it !!
Tumbleweed| 1.31.13 @ 1:41PM
Obama's goal is to wreck our economy and then create a Socialist nation free of individual rights! If he play's it right, Hillary will finish the job!
Lyoncelt| 1.31.13 @ 4:01PM
Too late, Mr. Tyrrell. Liberty is gone. Washington contains nothing more than ruins reminding us of liberty, but none is to be found in America today. Washington is a whited sepulcher of a city, only a mausoleum to liberty, a dead monument to the bad faith of our political class. Liberty in America is as dead and gone as the peak Mayan civilization. Our decline is as irreversible as the Mayan collapse, and our collapse will be well nigh as precipitous, similar to the collapse of the Soviet Union, or worse. Just enjoy the Mayan ruins as a prefiguring of the America that is aborning now, which is to say, the anti-America. We seem as little likely to reclaim our Constitutional birthright as any Mayan might lay claim to an ancient temple built by his or her ancestors.
Mnestheus| 2.1.13 @ 5:49AM
As TAS resident Mayanist I would commend to all aboard the splendid sculptural replicas produced by the Guatemala City atelier of Freddy the Forger.
His rendition of the crystal skull of Baron von Kannon as a small child makes a splendid ashtray , and if more Stalinesque sizes are wanted , he can on request raid the lost jade mines of the Olmecs, to provide specimens of up to 300 tonnes.