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Political Hay
An Elite That Still Reject Him
Tolerating Jesus only if he’s not the Son of God.
Christmas reminds us that, to some of our “elite,” Jesus’ ultimate “crime” remains unchanged. Though two thousand years separate them, some members of the liberal elite of our own day, just as were the elite of his, are unwilling to accept Jesus admitting to being God.
In Chapter 22 of his Gospel, St. Luke recounts Jesus being brought before the High Council in Jerusalem. The following exchange sealed his fate:
“You are the Son of God, then?” they all said, and he replied, “It is you who say I am.” They said, “Need we call further witnesses? We have heard it ourselves from his own lips.”
Despite all the manufactured transgressions with which Jesus was accused, it was this direct question whether he was God, and his admission to it, that caused the elite of his own society to reject him.
As we confront an ever secularized Christmas, it is clear that some members of our own self-appointed liberal “elite” likewise reject Jesus because he is held to be God. However, for our elitists their rejection is not because Jesus’ admission offends their religious beliefs, but because it embodies a religious belief.
There is no shortage of room for Santa Claus, for nonreligious carols, for giving presents, and all manner of “seasonal celebration” at this time of year. In such a vein, Christmas is just good fun, and most importantly, it is not religious.
And there is no shortage of other secular “holidays” (though the derivation of that terminology from “holy days” must rankle some who stop to consider). Just the opposite! There is a veritable explosion of commemorative days — federal “holidays” and even more “recognition days” — such as Earth Day. Few people actually “celebrate” them at all — beyond a day off from work at the most extreme, to a bumper sticker at the spectrum’s other end.
If Jesus could just get with the program of not being God, there would not be a problem with manger scenes on courthouse steps at Christmas either. If his followers could simply accept him as just a man — a wise man, or a good man, or even a revolutionary man (preferably in the mold of Che’, not Washington), all would be forgiven. Our modern day elitists have plenty of room for men of any of these sorts — heck, Jesus would only need to be one, not all three combined.
The problem is that Jesus will not now, any more than he would two millennia ago. And because of it, it is just as clear that, were Christmas not already a holiday, a true Holy Day, some members of the liberal elite would fight tooth and nail to prevent it from becoming a federal holiday now.
The reason for this visceral rejection of Jesus as God goes well beyond just these elitists’ gross misrepresentation of the First Amendment’s establishment of religion language into something the Founders never intended: turning barring a state-sponsored religion into a state-sponsored barring of religion.
The real reason for these elitists’ rejection is their need and demand for relativism. If all things are relative, then all things’ value is arbitrary and must be arbitrated. In an endless range of shades of gray, things are to be ranked and shifted at will — i.e., their will. There is only a need for arbitrators to assign things their value. And of course, to these elitists, this is their role. The rest of us can just follow along as best we can and perhaps hope to fully understand later.
The problem with God is that God is anything but relative. God is absolute. Instead of these elitists’ mélange of gray, God is black and white. There is good and evil and there is salvation and condemnation — all done on God’s terms, not ours. There is no place in such a world for what these elitists imagine they do best and want to do most: redefine the world in their own terms.
This is not to say that such elitists will not tolerate religions. Just that, religions must know their place. These elitists are happy to see religions as cultural trappings, rather than expressions of God. Thus they are dismissed with a paternalistic pat on the head. For these elitists, religions are not about God, they are simply quaint.
There is no fuller demonstration of God as the dividing line for these elitists than their disparate treatment of Christmas with Easter.
These are the two most important holidays in the Christian calendar. The former is far easier for these elitists to secularize than the latter. Who cannot celebrate a birth? Everyone had one. Contrastingly, only one person could rise from the dead on his own. It is unambiguously the proof of being God. God is so plainly at the center of Easter, that it is impossible to separate him from it.
For Christians, were there no Easter, there would be no Christmas. For these elitists, there can only be Christmas, if they ignore Easter.
The world has changed much in the twenty centuries since Jesus, but some of our elites have not in one respect. How dare Jesus challenge their authority? Even in this age of elitism’s feigned tolerance there’s still one thing that won’t be tolerated: someone admitting to being God.
About the Author
J.T. Young served in the Department of Treasury and the Office of Management and Budget from 2001 to 2004 and as a Congressional staff member from 1987 to 2000.
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Stormzeye| 12.24.12 @ 8:48AM
The divinity of Christ is an anvil that has worn out many hammers.
cuban pete| 12.24.12 @ 1:52PM
Stormzeye,
Is that original with you or did you read it somewhere?
Either way it is a great thought.
Thanks and Merry Christmas to you and yours.
cp
Stormzeye| 12.24.12 @ 3:23PM
Pete,
I heard the statement from a Catholic friend of mine who had heard a priest use the metaphor. It is certainly apt, especially given the unending attacks on our faith throughout the world. My co-religionists in the Middle East are in need of our thoughts and prayers this season.
Merry Christmas to you and yours and a healthy and happy New Year.
C Smith | 12.26.12 @ 12:44PM
The motif of Christ is always and forever the "Stone."
"The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner" (Psalms 118:22).
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste" (Isaiah 28:16).
"And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder" (Matthew 21:44).
"... a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces... and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth" (Daniel 2:34 -35).
Catholics continue to make the same mistake as Mosses in regarding Christ an anvil.
And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice... And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them" (Num 20:11 ).
Christ was to be smote but once!
Aristocat| 12.24.12 @ 10:20PM
“You are the Son of God, then?” they all said, and he replied, “It is you who say I am.”
That was not an "admission"....He was just saying, "Those are your words, not mine." You can find much stronger statements other places in scripture.
Ryan| 12.26.12 @ 8:54AM
My understanding of the "I am" statement in Luke 22:70 is that Jesus was practically asserting His divinity there, not just making a statement of assent.
cowgirl| 12.26.12 @ 2:25PM
Wow! I have imprinted this in my memory!!
Why? Because I as well as everyone else on this board will face death one day.
Jesus Saves.....
Ted R.| 12.24.12 @ 9:09AM
If the worship of Jesus lasts as long as the worship of the Egyptian god Horus (from whom the myth of the dying and rising god is in part derived), then I'll be impressed. Christianity's not gonna make it another millennium, I'm willing to bet.
Peter| 12.24.12 @ 9:24AM
Give your reasons Teddy boy....
Albert Constantine Jr.| 12.24.12 @ 9:47AM
Thank you for illustrating J.T. Young's point.
Kingofthenet| 12.24.12 @ 11:52AM
Be quiet you, have you not read the 'Book of Abraham' translated by the great Mr.Smith himself, from the Egyptian Papyrus?
markenoff| 12.24.12 @ 3:24PM
"the worship of the Egyptian god Horus" lasted as long as it did for 2 reasons: 1) it was state religion for the Egyptians who had a government supported religious elite and 2) it was standard sun worship as seen throughout primitive cultures who did not understand cosmology. They actually thought that it was the sun that moved, not the earth.
Aristocat| 12.24.12 @ 10:21PM
OK, Teddy, I'll take the bet..How much do you want to wager that Christianity will still be around long after you're gone...
Ryan| 12.26.12 @ 8:56AM
Unless you reverse it and take Tolkien's position - that all myths that bear a level of Truth point to the Archetype of Christ.
The Resurrection is better documented and preserved - from a pure historical perspective - better than just about any other event from that period of history.
cowgirl| 12.26.12 @ 2:26PM
Neither will you for that matter. What are your expectations once your earthly body is laid to rest?
Albert Constantine Jr.| 12.24.12 @ 9:14AM
In the absence of the Divinity of Jesus and the established date to celebrate His birth, it would be much easier for the federal calendar to reflect J.C. Day as the fourth Monday in December, to maximize a 3 day weekend.
Joellen| 12.24.12 @ 9:35AM
And J.T. Young that is why GOD blessed you with the wisdom to write such a column. HIS word and HIS truth will never be squashed, not by the secular disbelievers from 2000 years ago, nor of those secular disbelievers of today.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 12.24.12 @ 9:47AM
Merry Christmas, Joellen.
Von Mises Jr| 12.24.12 @ 9:51AM
Excellent article Mr. Young. In fact, while there was only one Christ born to the world, there are others that suffered a similar fate for the reasons you cite. The elites pretend to be gods and wise while Christ and men such as Socrates and Sir Thomas More challenged their status, wisdom and power.
Socrates was deemed by the Oracle of Delphi to be the wises man in Athens that brought a similar wrath upon him four hundred years before the Birth of Christ. Sir Thomas More sided with the Pope against Henry VIII that resulted in his beheading.
So it is important today to praise Christ and adore Him. But it also instructive as to why the power elite rulers reject Christ and others that peel back the onion and expose them. It makes it clear Whom we should worship, and whom we should regard as the bearers of evil.
Al Adab| 12.24.12 @ 10:26AM
Merry Christmas to you all. May each of you encounter Christ as He truly is.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 12.24.12 @ 10:59AM
...and the compliments of the season to you, as well, sir.
Petronius| 12.24.12 @ 10:45AM
The elite detest God in their drive to supplant Him. They have temporal power, but what they really want is adoration, and to be viewed as the authors of happiness to and from all beneath their despotic heels. Let them go on trying to crush Christmas. What they want most is that which they cannot take from Us. The self ordained Snots controlling our polity can never force us to like them.
Al Adab| 12.24.12 @ 11:21AM
In re the Elites:
"The wisdom of man is but foolishness to God."
Mark30339| 12.24.12 @ 11:32AM
Let us elitely self-appoint ourselves to declare that it is not Caesar who reigns, nor is it the American government or its almighty dollar. Proclaim the truth: it makes no difference what restaint attempts are made by external forces, our world is ruled by the Prince of Peace, the Suffering Servant who makes new life out of all the wickedness man and government can mete out.
Kingofthenet| 12.24.12 @ 11:49AM
So apparently when you tell authority figures you are GOD, they should believe you otherwise they are acting 'Elite'? Who says a God has to be 'Good' anyway, a God can do whatever it wants and label it 'Good'. It could do a 'Newton' EVERY Day and say it needs to be done, and the sheep will defend the decision. The 'Funny' thing is it ACTUALLY does, EVERY day many more kids die of disease, starvation and wars, then did at Newton...EVERY SINGLE DAY.
markenoff| 12.24.12 @ 3:27PM
And so you are a king?
You, like most atheists I've encountered (not saying you are an atheist just that I sense the same attitude in you as in them), you have it backwards. The kids dying of "disease starvation and wars" is not an indictment of God but of man. Man's violent, lustful, prideful, greedy and gluttonous nature is sufficient to explain all the suffering in the world. The fact that there is mercy, love and compassion in the world despite man is a sign that there is a good and loving God.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 12.24.12 @ 3:40PM
KotN;
Merely because one designates himself a king, should we believe he possesses majesty? Fortunately, in your case, it is clear that the title is as meaningless as most of what you write.
Merry Christmas anyway.
BackToBasics| 12.24.12 @ 1:29PM
According to the Gospels, the language Jesus used when speaking about His deity was nuanced. He did not brag about it but it was understood by His enemies that he considered Himself to be God.
Another reference I have used affirming Jesus deity is that He ACCEPTED worship in person while on the earth. One example is John 9:38, "And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him."
FBX1999| 12.24.12 @ 1:33PM
Glória in excélsis Deo et in terra pax homínibus bonae voluntátis.
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will.
Laudámus te, benedícimus te, adorámus te, glorificámus te, grátias ágimus tibi propter magnam glóriam tuam, Dómine Deus, Rex cæléstis, Deus Pater omnípotens.
We praise you, we bless you, we adore you, we glorify you, we give you thanks for your great glory, Lord God, heavenly King, O God, almighty Father.
Dómine Fili Unigénite, Iesu Christe, Dómine Deus, Agnus Dei, Fílius Patris, qui tollis peccáta mundi, miserére nobis; qui tollis peccáta mundi, súscipe deprecatiónem nostram.
Lord Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son, Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us; you take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer. you are seated at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us.
Qui sedes ad déxteram Patris, miserére nobis. Quóniam tu solus Sanctus, tu solus Dóminus, tu solus Altíssimus, Iesu Christe, cum Sancto Spíritu: in glória Dei Patris. Amen
For you alone are the Holy One, you alone are the Lord, you alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. Amen
markenoff| 12.24.12 @ 3:34PM
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AGAIN I SAY AMEN!
markenoff| 12.24.12 @ 3:33PM
Those who say "I believe in Jesus but I just think he was a good man, not God" engage in bad logic.
What is the evidence that Jesus was a good man? The Gospels. But that very same evidence indicates that He indeed taught his disciples that he was God to the point where many of His closest companions (Peter, Andrew, James and I can't remember how many others of the immediate apostles as well as Steven, not an apostle but almost certainly a disciple during Christ's life) as well as those who they taught and others who believed in the divinity of Christ were willing to die rather than deny His divinity. This is not the work of a good man. So Jesus is either Emmanuel, the Christ, the Son of the Most High or a charlatan and a deceiver.
Ryan| 12.26.12 @ 9:02AM
PLEASE credit CS Lewis when making this argument.
And I would advise anyone who believes that Christ was a "good man" to read Mere Christianity before making the argument further...
Occam's Tool| 12.24.12 @ 4:08PM
So the solution, KoN, to the suffering of children that you propose is to kill them in the womb. Typical solution of a Liberal maggot.
Vermin cries out to vermin in the Liberal swamp.
Kingofthenet| 12.25.12 @ 7:50PM
I am PERSONALLY against Abortion except for rare cases, but my personal opinion is just that my own, I won't interfere with OTHER peoples decisions.
Ryan| 12.26.12 @ 8:59AM
So other people should be allowed to murder babies?
spike59| 12.28.12 @ 3:59PM
Sounds like the same logic employed by those who turned a blind eye to Hitler...
Job| 12.26.12 @ 1:58PM
hmm argument to let those who wish to abort do so can be strained down to argument when does life begin. argument when does life begin cannot be sorted out without invoking religion and philosophy. so argument is to let the secular choose to be secular and the religious choose to be religious is where separation of church and state matters.
Spike| 12.25.12 @ 1:29AM
Even in this age of elitism’s feigned tolerance there’s still one thing that won’t be tolerated: someone admitting to being God.
This is not entirely true, and in fact, will likely be proven in our lifetime.
One of the Elite's own claiming to be God, will not only be tolerated, but revered.
spike59| 12.28.12 @ 4:00PM
And re-elected
Ted R.| 12.25.12 @ 8:06AM
Religion is mostly about politics. Whoever can say "God is on my side" has a powerful political advantage. Until, anyway, you get into a Secular Age, like where we are now. By the time we're in now, claiming to be the Party of God is a Faustian bargain. Just like with Al-Qaeda, religious zealots try to translate their dogmatism into political power, and lose both. The Right in this country has discredited their religion right along with their broken political brand. Your attempt to combine church and state has only brought people like myself to the fore; millions of educated people who have had enough of your Bunk.
Educated people the world over, especially educated young people, will not pick up your banners once you have dropped them; and thus religions die. We are ALL mortal and do not need religion's false consolations. We just need more commitment to helping each other now, in the only life there is. And we're doing it, we've been getting better these last few centuries. Human beings, and human beings alone, wrote all the Good Books of all the world's religious traditions; therefore we're not all bad, and we can and will make the world a better place - with or without your help.
markenoff| 12.25.12 @ 1:56PM
If this is the only life there is then why should I help anyone now? Why not just strive to get everything I can morally or immorally, legally or illegally as long as I don't get caught? If there is no afterlife, no judgement of good or evil then the smart thing to do is take care of you and yours screw everybody else unless they can help you in some way.
HairRazor| 12.26.12 @ 4:13AM
It seems the more we separate the church and state the more evil fills the void. Fifty - sixty years ago and beyond when prayer (Christian) was prevalent in our public schools and people weren't offended by Nativity scenes in the public square, school/theater shootings were alien thoughts. It was never intended for such a seperation.. only that the government was not to interfere.
Ryan| 12.26.12 @ 9:00AM
French Revolution tried that. It didn't work out so well. So did the Soviets...
CLD| 12.28.12 @ 12:41AM
This is a test.
CLD| 12.28.12 @ 12:55AM
I don't comment much, but I can't let this go...
Religion is "mostly about politics"? Honestly?!
Ted, you are a perfect example of the sort of elitist Young complains about when he writes,
"The real reason for these elitists’ rejection is their need and demand for relativism. If all things are relative, then all things’ value is arbitrary"
Religions are about mankind's striving toward the Absolute. But those of your ilk will not recognize ANY absolute beyond their own egoity.
We've been getting better the last several centuries? Really? Then explain the world wars. Explain the spread of militant Islam. Explain the invention of partial-birth abortion procedures. Explain the increasing frequency of mass killings like the recent one in Newton.
The religious right may -- or may not -- have discredited their religious brand. However, you can rest assured, Ted, that the unending drive to replace genuine liberalism with socialism and to make secular humanism the one and only 'religion' on Earth are a discredit to your political brand. And the viciousness and arrogance with which your ilk pursues its goals is a constant motivator to me and millions like me -- and our education is AT LEAST as good as yours, you self-righteous sod.
Jedbad| 12.25.12 @ 9:14PM
Seriously? Black and white? Wow. You have no concept of Jesus. He befriended harlots. He accepted everyone. He was not black and white. Everything about Him was gray. You are so misguided.
Ryan| 12.26.12 @ 9:01AM
No, Christ was black and white. He called the sinners He befriended to repentance.
We're the ones who are gray, making excuses and rationales.
spike59| 12.28.12 @ 4:06PM
Christ said "go and sin no more"...the ProgLib translation reads "it's all good.whatever..."
Mistral| 12.26.12 @ 7:02AM
"The world has changed much in the twenty centuries since Jesus....."
Nothing, however, has changed in human nature in that time except for his appalling vanity which today is inflated by a gross over-dependence on what resembles objective science but in reality has become a statist engineered political tool for mass manipulation and experimentation.
It is way past the time to realign science with the theological principles from which it originates. Ethical considerations have been subverted in favour of the business-profit oriented. Science is no longer able to answer most of our questions. Money & personal vainglory are the motives.
Job| 12.26.12 @ 2:15PM
the secular install their own deities and yet refuse to aknowledge deity; others have false deity. the secular question is deeper than the question you present which is: "who is God" but theirs is "Is there a God".
the watering down of Christianity and flourishing of false religion is is precisly why the bargaining process will play out on the plains of Meggido.
KyMouse| 12.26.12 @ 2:28PM
I know a number of elitists who agree that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and that no one comes to the Father but through Him (John 14:6). However, they claim that one need not have personal faith (obedient trust) in Jesus in order to be saved by Him.
I know a preacher who even says that there may be more opportunities for salvation after death.
Those are false gospels. In John 3:1-18, Jesus explained to Jewish leader Nicodemus that every Jewish sinner and every gentile sinner must believe in Him in order to be saved.
"He who believes in Him [Jesus] is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God..."
That's why ministries such as Jews for Jesus do the challenging work of evangelism among Jews and gentiles alike.
Jesus said it. I believe Him. Do you?
Peter McGrath| 12.26.12 @ 3:05PM
Nice point, K -M. The exact point I was going to make.
“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. "
John 15:9-15 (NIV).
No suggestion of cheap grace (i.e., go wallow in sin, we'll work it out later) there. Without obedience, there can be no grace. It's sort of a chicken/egg proposition but Jesus could not be more clear. We have a choice: obey His commands and develop a friendship with God (the Omnipotent One), or not. For me, it's worth the effort to keep Him close. Some days are better than others but, as Norman Greenbaum put it : "Prepare yourself, you know it's a must ... Gotta have a friend in Jesus."
Ryan| 12.26.12 @ 4:20PM
AAARGH. Grace comes first before everything.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no man can boast." Eph 2:8
God grants repentance, enables us to believe and THEN to act in obedience. Nothing in scripture points to my ability to obey God before He changes me first.
Ted R.| 12.26.12 @ 11:26PM
Ugh. "Grace" is the cardinal Lie at the heart of monotheism. It makes a joke out of our natural freedom and dignity. There is no God to whom we are originally indebted. Life is no free gift; it will be paid for by each of us, with a real death. We can see the good for ourselves; we need no supernatural inspiration. We have no less motive to be good, than "God" herself does.
Ryan| 12.27.12 @ 8:17AM
What is the standard for good without God?
Ted R.| 12.27.12 @ 10:26AM
What is the standard for good with God? The Pleasure of the Prince?
Peter McGrath| 12.27.12 @ 12:09PM
Getting "good" with God starts with recognizing his sovereignty over the universe and his love for you, expressed through the sacrifice of his one and only Son. "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." Therein only lies the path of peace in this life and eternal life thereafter. Can you dig it?
Ryan| 12.27.12 @ 1:15PM
Maybe...God?
Without an absolute, there can be no moral "good" or "evil." Just convenience and comfort.
Ted R.| 12.27.12 @ 9:14PM
Our standard of good cannot be a person - no matter how powerful that person be. That is nothing but Subjectivism and might-makes-right reasoning. The question is, what is to be our standard of good; not whether or not we are able to successfully ingratiate ourselves to some potentate. Monotheism's moral reasoning is primitive; we are to obey the Boss 'cause "that's the Boss, and you'll get a whuppin' if you don't."
Down to its last detail, the moral reasoning of monotheists - and Christians are the worst, in this respect - is perverse. 'God' "loves" us, but if we fail to bend the knee to God's sovereignty, we'll be most severely punished. You cannot talk about what is good - you can only talk about the merits of obedience or disobedience. You invent an imaginary original debt, that some personality is supposed to serve as surety for, by a human sacrifice. As if vicarious responsibility for our moral trespasses were even logically possible! Grace in particular, is a device used to head of the (otherwise inevitable) logical force of Pelagianism.
Ted R.| 12.27.12 @ 9:15PM
People the world over, totally ignorant of Christianity, in times both before and after the appearance of the religion, have lived perfectly good lives without the benefit of Christian revelation (though of course Calvinists will self-servingly deny this obvious fact). Christianity offers false solace - there is no evidence of life beyond the grave (and be careful, what you wish for) - in exchange for a tawdry guarantee of our servility. The whole thing is a rotten branch, and needs to be hacked off. Thankfully, in our own day, humanists are going to work on it.
As for our standard of good, that can only be the product of a process of ceaseless negotiation among equals, leading to the rule of law, which is beyond the fiat of any given personality. That is all our standard of good has EVER been. It's not perfect, but it's not a gospel of Slavery, either.
Ryan| 12.28.12 @ 8:54AM
No one can live a Good life if there is no objective, defined "good." The Nazis thought they were "good."
We're all slaves. The illusion of free will clouds a lot of people's minds. It's just a point of who or what we are a slave to.
The "process" you speak of does not produce "good." Just rules to follow, and is still "might makes right." It has been ever-changing.
An ever-changing standard of "good" cannot work, and has not worked, as we have seen through history. "Good" must be established objectively, otherwise there is no moral responsibility.
Ryan| 12.28.12 @ 8:51AM
You're missing the argument for God being the definition of Good, then. Good must be established objectively, somehow, but it cannot be done without a standard. A Being of ultimate Will CAN set that standard, otherwise there's no Good at all.
You're trying to make the Christian God a bearer of subjective, rather than objective, Good. According to your definition, there can BE no objective good.
Ted R.| 12.28.12 @ 9:43PM
You are right, that by my reckoning, there can be no objective good; just because this supposes that there is a standard of good that exists completely independent of the perspective of ANY person. That, of course, is logically impossible. You try to get around this with the theological mumbo-jumbo “a being of ultimate Will,” but there’s no way to logically distinguish such a being from something Satanic.
The good is ALWAYS going to have to reference someone’s point of view. But the difference between us is that I am not a Subjectivist, and you are. Because while I think that the notion of an “absolute” good, a good in TOTAL abstraction from any given person’s point of view, is logically incoherent, we can still share perspectives and work together in concert to produce an accepted body of impersonal rules, which are independent of the will of any particular actor. This is the closest we can ever come to an objective good. Human freedom has meant that there is a lot of disagreement over the good, and so a lot of conflict. I don’t recall Christianity as helping out much in that regard. But gradually we are learning how to live together better, especially since the advent of Secular Humanism.
Ted R.| 12.28.12 @ 9:55PM
The whole concept of monarchy, however – and monotheism is the ideology of extreme monarchy – enshrines Subjectivism as supreme. Monarchy is also an ideology of slavery, so it's no surprise that you endorse that, too.
Peter McGrath| 12.27.12 @ 8:16AM
Indeed, Ryan, grace is a condition that precedes, and makes possible, obedience. Calm down and try a soothing latte.z
Ted - there's a maypole, somewhere, you need to be dancing around.
Ryan| 12.27.12 @ 8:18AM
Just black coffee, thanks. No need to foul it.
Sorry, Calvinistic sensibilities arise when I see any statement that has a condition upon God's grace.
Job| 12.26.12 @ 2:41PM
for "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son and whosoever believes in him shall not perish but shall have everlasting life"
lessee don't see no terms and conditions there...
let every man be a liar and God be true. and Happy Holy days to all.
Americanpatriot| 12.26.12 @ 9:15PM
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I can't wait for Obama to bow and say Jesus Christ is Lord. They all will, that is what the word of God says. I thank God for sending his only begotten son to this world. It seems it needs him more now than ever.
deedle| 12.26.12 @ 10:32PM
God so loved the world that He gave us His only begotten Son,that whoever believes in Him would not perish but have ever lasting life.
What a Gift!!!!!!
Rich D| 12.27.12 @ 12:58AM
Without Easter, Christmas is just another kid's birthday.
Rich D| 12.27.12 @ 1:01AM
The Greek of Lk 22:70 reads, "You (all) are saying that I am."
The "you" is plural, and the the verb can be translated more actively as "are saying" as opposed to simply "say".
Ryan| 12.27.12 @ 4:37PM
What is more important is what Christ meant in the "I am" part. Did He say "I AM," as in the statement God made at the burning bush?
Rich D| 12.28.12 @ 12:37AM
ego eimi = I am.
Ryan| 12.28.12 @ 8:54AM
What does it mean, however?
Stan Redmond| 12.27.12 @ 5:38PM
As with all things to liberals God and Christ are just another tool in their arsenal to push their liberal agenda. For a glaring example just listen to the stupidity bilging from Pelosi's pie-hole. Her catholic faith compels her to support gay marriage and abortion. Really?
Michele San Pietro| 1.6.13 @ 9:50AM
I declare holy war to anticlericalism!