The American Spectator : The Great Secession

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The Great Secession

By Doug Bandow on 12.10.12 @ 6:08AM

Would it really be the highest form of patriotism?

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With secession “that gravy train would cease to exist,” noted Cesca. He went on to suggest that everyone in America would be helpless if they weren’t collecting federal goodies and looting everyone else, which is nonsense — pervasive subsidies and bail-outs make Americans weaker, not stronger. But some people currently demanding their freedom might not be quite so enthused about freeing themselves if they knew that meant they would be on their own financially.

Behind all the silliness is a serious issue, however. Why shouldn’t people be able to reorder their political arrangements if they wish? Must whatever has been put together be forever kept together? In an otherwise hysterical column, Peter Morrison, a Texas Republican Party activist, reasonably asked: “Why should Vermont and Texas live under the same government?” Indeed, why?

There’s no inherent reason why any particular group of people should be in community with any other. Slavery will always stain the cause of the southern Confederacy, but what principle justified slaughtering thousands to hold the country together? Unionist Horace Greeley declared in the New York Tribune: “We hope never to live in a republic whereof one section is pinned to the residue by bayonets.” Then-Col. Robert E. Lee opposed secession but explained: “a Union that can only be maintained by swords and bayonets, and in which strife and civil war are to take the place of brotherly love and kindness, has no charm for me.”

In many ways we are a badly divided people. Noted Patrick Buchanan: “While no one takes this movement as seriously as men took secession in 1861, the sentiments behind it ought not to be minimized. For they bespeak a bristling hostility to the federal government and a dislike bordering on detestation of some Americans for other Americans, as deep as it was on the day Beauregard’s guns fired on Fort Sumter.”

Americans soon may face the issue from the other direction. On November 6 residents of Puerto Rico voted for statehood in a confusing plebiscite on the island’s status. Puerto Rico, conquered by the U.S. during the Spanish-American War, currently is a commonwealth. There long has been a small independence movement, but the majority of Puerto Ricans traditionally preferred commonwealth to statehood. This time the majority rejected the “present form of territorial status,” after which they voted on the alternatives of independence, statehood, and “sovereign free associated state.” Statehood won with 61 percent.

The mere fact that someone wants to join the union doesn’t mean it should be invited to join. That applies to other potential aspirants as well. There once was serious talk of Canada breaking up, and Patrick Buchanan mused on which provinces should be invited to become American states. Even if America’s northern neighbor dissolved and some of its parts wanted to join the U.S., it wouldn’t necessarily make sense to say yes.

Rather than arguing about secession, it would be better to revive federalism. The national government has grown into a monster Leviathan, attempting to micro-manage the lives of 314 million Americans. Yet Washington is dominated by unrepresentative elites which are largely beyond peoples’ control. Frustration and anger are justified.

What to do? Reynolds wrote: “Let the central government do the things that only central governments can do — national defense, regulation of trade to keep the provinces from engaging in economic warfare from one another, protection of basic civil rights — and then let the provinces go their own way in most other issues.” If you’re not happy, you don’t have to secede: just move to another state.

This has the advantage of fulfilling the original constitutional scheme. The national government was supposed to have only limited and enumerated powers. In contrast, according to James Madison in Federalist No. 45, states were to be concerned with “the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the state.”

Bigger is not always better. Europe is discovering that reality, as opposition rises to continuing efforts to shift more power to the European Union and Brussels, and secessionist sentiments grow in Belgium’s Flanders, Spain’s Catalonia, and Great Britain’s Scotland.

Concern is likely to only grow in America. Washington is ever more imperious and unaccountable; it does ever more that should be left to other governments and, more important, to other institutions. Inflammatory rhetoric aside, Americans face a crisis of government.

Secession isn’t likely to prove a practical answer. Instead of breaking up the United States of America, people should focus on devolving authority to states, localities, families, and individuals. Rediscovering federalism is should become the new mantra in Washington.

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About the Author

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. A former Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan, he is the author and editor of several books, including The Politics of Plunder: Misgovernment in Washington (Transaction).

Letter to the Editor View all comments (224) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

LONE STAR| 12.10.12 @ 6:47AM

The federal government is bankrupt and on the verge of collapse. When this happens, the states are going to have to go it on their own.
Texas is in a very favorable condition to do so. It was once a republic, and to declare its independence from Wash., DC would be beneficial to the state. All that would be required would be for Texans to pay their federal taxes to the state ($200 Billion per annum).
A war for Independence would be out of the question, since the feds have nuclear weapons. It would need to be voluntary and consensual.
Texas has agriculture, oil and gas, and industry. Its citizens are capable of defending themselves and their borders. If the US dollar collapses, Texas would need to have a monetary system in place, backed by gold and silver. This would allow commerce to continue and increase.
Other states may wish to join Texas in a confederation of sovereign states, free of the corruption of Wash., DC.
This was more in line with what the Founding Father intended, not the massive bureaucratic dictatorship based in Washington, DC, which now exists.

Von Mises Jr| 12.10.12 @ 8:05AM

If we open our eyes, we can see this beginning to unfold already. Some states are using nullification as TX, VA and ME are with NDAA and unconstitutional prolonged detention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....e=youtu.be

Seventeen States have refused to set up ObamaCare Exchanges while six demand Federal funding and nine (mostly with Republican Governors) still have not committed to comply.

This will most likely escalate and it will be the response of the totalitarian Statist in DC that will determine the outcome.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 10:02AM

Instead of seceeding, why don't we give California back to Mexico. like a corporate spinoff of a losing division. We may have to pay Mexico. This will solve our illegal immigration problem, and our electoral college problem where the Dems are guaranteed 50 brain dead votes. That still leaves us with 56 states.

Von Mises Jr| 12.10.12 @ 10:29AM

While we are at it, we should offer the Northeast to Britain. I would even support going to war with them to force them to take it back.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 10:50AM

Give Detroit and New Orleans back to the French. A case of addition by subtraction.

KennesawJack| 12.10.12 @ 11:26AM

I'm more than OK with Detroit. New Orleans. Not so much.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 11:31AM

Substitute Philly for New Orleans. But who wants Philly?

Quartermaster| 12.10.12 @ 5:36PM

Just nuke, San Fransicko, LA, Seattle, Boston, NY, Philly, Baltimore and DC then you won't have to worry so much about getting anyone to take them. Civic improvements, sez I.

nathan| 12.10.12 @ 12:42PM

KJ: I responded to your comment last week about West. Go read it if you're interested. See if after knowing the complete story you still disagree with me.

KennesawJack| 12.10.12 @ 3:29PM

Nathan, I know what the circumstances are. That isn't the issue. You said that when Army Officers do what West did, we call it a war crime. No we don't. He was never charged with a war crime. Had he been, he would have been busted in rank, under the UCMJ tried and given a dishonorable discharge (equivalent to becoming a felon in criminal law) and therefore losing many of his rights of citizenship. He admitted to conduct unbecoming and was allowed to retire with full pension and no reduction in rank. He never, never, never was a "self-confessed war criminal." That's the "horseshit" part of which I spoke. It's no big deal but, as an aside, when I was a young man I saw the elephant and I am here to tell you, if my Commanding Officer had the opportunity to do what West did and didn't do it, he would have been drummed out of the Service. So, at the end of the day, yes. I still disagree with you.

Al Brooks, bleedingheartlib | 12.10.12 @ 10:40AM

"The federal government is bankrupt and on the verge of collapse. When this happens, the states are going to have to go it on their own.
Texas is in a very favorable condition to do so. It was once a republic, and to declare its independence from Wash., DC would be beneficial to the state. All that would be required would be for Texans to pay their federal taxes to the state ($200 Billion per annum).
A war for Independence would be out of the question, since the feds have nuclear weapons. It would need to be voluntary and consensual.
Texas has agriculture, oil and gas, and industry. Its citizens are capable of defending themselves and their borders. If the US dollar collapses, Texas would need to have a monetary system in place, backed by gold and silver. This would allow commerce to continue and increase."

Texas, the state that gave us the Bushes.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 3:40PM

More members of the US military are from Texas than any other state.

If you envision them ever pointing their weapons at fellow Texans, think again.

C. Vernon Crisler | 12.10.12 @ 11:15AM

"President Abraham Lincoln plunged the disunited U.S. into a horrific civil war...."

How can anyone take Bandow seriously when he makes such asinine statements?

RCV| 12.10.12 @ 11:46AM

Agreed. But this is one issue on which you and I have long been in agreement. The American people will never treat seriously anyone who views Lincoln as a despot.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 4:28PM

Had Lincoln known the war would cost 600,000 lives, there would be 2 countries, today.

Butch| 12.10.12 @ 7:25PM

I doubt if Dishonest Abe had any qualms about 200,000 Confederate deaths, Dr. R. He just wasn't ready for the yankee deaths. With that modifier, I agree.

AllAmericanAmerican| 12.10.12 @ 1:07PM

Whenever I need my daily dose of irony I come to the pages of Amspec and voila, there it is.

Quartermaster| 12.10.12 @ 5:39PM

Alas, Vern, that's exactly what Lincoln did. The only thing that is asinine is your misunderstanding of the facts.

vtwin| 12.10.12 @ 12:05PM

If any of you unpatriotic ass-whips want to leave don't let the door hit you on the way out but you will not 't be taking any real estate with you.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 1:56PM

Deal! I hasten to note for the record that we shan't be taking any of your debt either...

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 3:42PM

We don't want to leave, we want you to disappear.

If/when we do leave, we'll be taking the door and the knob, but leaving all the asses (like you) behind.

Anthony| 12.10.12 @ 4:50PM

vtwin, Moombeams just sold you and and all of California back to Mexico.
Adios and good riddence.

Butch| 12.10.12 @ 7:30PM

What's your problem with the real estate? Our products are mostly commodities sold on worldwide markets, anyway. You could buy, the same as anyone else. I envision free trade and free mobility, but not permanent residents' status nor voting rights for documented left-wingers like yourself. We would be culturally homogeneous, you would have the "diversity" you so cherish. Enjoy; but be careful where you go after dark.

Virtue| 12.10.12 @ 7:29AM

Federalism was doomed with the passage of the 17th Amendment. And secession was an acceptable legal theory in the early republic. It's time to unfurl the Bonnie Blue Flag....

Jacob McCandles| 12.10.12 @ 9:47AM

I don't think the north has many men left who can fire a weapon. The southern man already dominates the military, can handle himself in the wilderness, etc. Maybe I'm wrong. Those yuppies in Mass., VT, etc with their effeminate lisps, emasculated ways of life, etc might surprise me. Maybe Barney Frank...

Harry the Horrible| 12.10.12 @ 10:42AM

I think the South was thinking the same thing in 1861. Lets not go that route again.
I want to WIN this time...

C. Vernon Crisler | 12.10.12 @ 11:17AM

Secession as never an acceptable legal theory in the early Republic.

Virtue| 12.10.12 @ 11:46AM

See either William Rawl's or Joseph Story's pre-war treatises on the Constitution.

aware| 12.10.12 @ 1:05PM

“Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better… Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can may revolutionize and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit.”

Guess who said this Crisler.

C. Vernon Crisler | 12.10.12 @ 2:25PM

aware, do you understand the difference between secession and revolution?

JmsA| 12.10.12 @ 2:58PM

Hiding behind semantics, are we? The end result is one and the same: overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed.

AllAmericanAmerican| 12.10.12 @ 6:39PM

Purty simple Vern---revolution is trying to take over a government; secession is leaving the compact and forming your own. Seems it is you who is a bit confused on the difference.

aware| 12.11.12 @ 5:33AM

So you're saying that when Texas cut ties with Mexico, which is what Lincoln is talking about here, is a "revolution", but when Texas tried to cut ties with the US it was "secession"? No wonder you admire this two faced politician so much.

And no wonder I consider politicians of our, or any other, era to be the vilest scum on earth.

AllAmericanAmerican| 12.10.12 @ 1:10PM

Seriously bro we know you love you some tyrants, as long as they are pretend right wing ones like Lincoln, but you should prolly familiarize yerself with the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798 before you go making a complete and utter fool of yourself...again.

C. Vernon Crisler | 12.10.12 @ 2:26PM

Nullification is not secession, and Jefferson himself warned against secession, as did Madison later on.

Quartermaster| 12.10.12 @ 5:42PM

And Madison often fretted about the cracks he saw that would lead to secession.

AllAmericanAmerican| 12.10.12 @ 6:41PM

Really? Do you know who said this?

"If there be any among us who wish to dissolve the Union or to change its republican form let them stand undisturbed, as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it."

If you don't think Nullification would lead to Secession you are a pretty short-sighted fella.

JmsA| 12.10.12 @ 1:58PM

It appears you don't know as much as you think you do, again.

JmsA| 12.10.12 @ 1:59PM

The above was directed at the resident know-it-all, Crisler.

Sincerely,

The Lunatic

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 7:44AM

The idea of secession is just plain stupid.

It comes from a place of childish entitlement. "I didn't get my way, so I'm taking my ball and going home".

We are not a mistreated colony of the mother ship any more. Our government is duly elected by the American people. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's just the way it is.

Anyone who would turn their back on the country of their birth, of their forefathers, the country they profess to be so proud to be a citizen of, to be American, should think twice about such a frivolous and childish act.

Those hardliners that still feel entitled to whine and moan because they didn't get what they wanted in the election should contact Mitt Romney, convince him to buy the Cayman Islands, and they can all move there, make him President there, and get the hell out of the United States.
You'll still pay taxes, too bad, but I hear the weather is nice.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 7:52AM

Why so scared, Purp?

Maybe because, despite your assertions to the contrary, you know that within a year you'd be trying to sneak over the border into freedom?

I guess a moron like yourself considers the Founding Fathers "childish" and "frivolous"?

You're a joke.

Von Mises Jr| 12.10.12 @ 8:12AM

If Red States refuse to pay for the DC welfare state, then Perp may have to take a cut in MoveOn troll dollars and his EBT Card Food Stamps.

I am still waiting for Caliban to explain "social justice." Little barry and Moochelle spent $1.4B on travel and entertainment last year while an inner-city mother gets some $30-40 per week to feed her child.
Hey Perp, can you tell me when someone has made enough money? When should someone "step away from the table so someone else can take a seat at the table (Van Jones)?" When do preferential policies stop lavishing gifts on Dear Leader and give you more? Aren't you angry that Moochelle eats Kobe beef and you eat chopped liver?

Bob Grant| 12.10.12 @ 9:54AM

"MoveOn Troll Dollars".... Nice.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:26AM

Poor VM, it's all about someone needing help and you don't want to give it to them.

I however, am not in that category, thank God. But I know it can happen to any of us - and that's where you're stupid. Thinking it can never happen to you.

You can hold your breath til you turn blue before I answer stupid questions. Explain the Trillion dollar price tag for Iraq if you can. Or the unfunded Medicare Drug Benefit if you can try for that one. That doesn't even mention Afghanistan or the original 9/11 debacle that should have been avoided. Only on Republican watch did that happen.

You aren't even close in scale to anyone's concern with 1.4 billion. God you're pathetic.

When you complain about money, it's because you don't make enough - go make more and shut up about paying for your country to provide everything it does - even for you.

Government is simply "Us", and the sooner you get off the "Government is the Enemy" harangue, the sooner you will have peace. It's not the enemy, it's "Us" .

Oh, btw, if I want Kobe Beef and couldn't afford it, I'd ask for a raise, or join a union or start a business ... ya know, take care of myself and stop bitching about what you don't have.

Sorry for you. You really got it bad.

Von Mises Jr| 12.10.12 @ 10:40AM

Stop your flailing and the Drama Queen Bull, Caliban. If you are so damn smart, answer my questions about "social justice."
You are using the typical socialist ploy of changing the subject and making ad hominem attacks. That's all Marx had to explain calculating prices in his "One World Socialist" (centrally planned) economy, or his brilliant explanation of "material productive forces."
I don't blame you for not being able to answer the questions troll. I just blame you for continuing to be ignorant after 150 years of failed socialist experiments.
But you can answer the "social justice" questions if you disagree with me that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Otherwise quietly return to the oldest profession where you allegedly earn such a lucrative living.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 6:29PM

Hey Junior - and you criticize me for ad hominem attacks?
I have neither the desire nor willingness to answer your silly statement-questions.

I presume you avail yourself of the oldest profession as often as you can ... since you know so much about it.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 10:42AM

With each and every post, your pure idiocy is on display.

"Government is us"???? No, it isn't. That's a nice cliche' from 4th-grade civics, but it bears no relationship to the status of the Federal Government today.

BTW...we know why don't answer questions, dummy...because you can't.

"Ask for a raise"?
"Join a union"??
"Start a business"???

These are the words of someone who has NEVER done any of these things.

Keep it up, Junior. I like having you here. You're funny...as in, we laugh at you.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 6:42PM

Dr Dum-Dum - oh, because YOU say so... I see.

"These are the words of someone who has NEVER done any of these things." - you know nothing about me at all.

You really are wrapped up in yourself aren't you?

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 3:31PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie was the Lord's way of pressing his thumb on the scale to tilt in the direction of President Obama. It was His punishment of Republicans for their lying and trying to cheat (Voter Suppression) their way to political victory, while espousing faith, freedom and constitutional credentials."

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

You are beyond stupid, purpie.

ArmyAviator| 12.10.12 @ 11:00AM

If States can be free of Washington meddling and dictatorial policies and regulations, they would be free to clean-up their own problems...and would do so! Those people, who don't want to work, want to sit on their butts all day long smoking crack...can move to a Liberal Socialist state-nation and be pampered! If Montana were to become an independent nation-state, maybe joined with Idaho and maybe North Dakota, sure there would be some who would vote with their feet and elect to leave for better free pickings. They might opt to move to a Michigan or Minnesota, where welfare and freebies are still available and Liberal Socialism is the order of the day. Secession will bring problems, but they can be dealt with. Our people will be much happier when they can live among their own kind. Let the hard working "black, white, green or gold" people, men, women and children of all races and creeds of this nation secede and form homelands where THEIR ideals are prevalent and not the ideals of European Socialists and Communists, now embraced by Liberal Socialist ideologues. Also, let those who revel in Socialism, Welfare, Food Stamps and "benefits" live in peace with their Masters, on the government plantation of their choice. No doubt PERP would love his cot in the FEMA Camp. Let him have it.

ArmyAviator| 12.10.12 @ 11:00AM

Russel| 12.10.12 @ 8:17AM

He's scared ( as well as all the others of his ilk ) because he has layed comfortably on his couch in the wagon while the producers pulled it . What the author could has said succinctly is that those who have pulled the wagon are tired of hauling the takers . Our country once had a rule : you take care of yourself . Our Founders gave everyone the opportunity to do so , and those who took full advantage could expect rich results . Now , the government not only wishes to remove that opportunity , but punish those who have figured out a way to circumvent them and keep working and profiting anyway . The punishment is taking away their earnings and giving it to the lazy ; those on their comfortable couch . The producing states are overflowing with those who wish to better themselves , while the socialist , taking states are floundering . Won't be long before those entire states ( not just individuals ) will be asking they be pulled . Ca. will be first in line .

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:35AM

Russel, Russel, Russel... poor chap. The Government is 'US' ... duly elected by 'Us'.
no mention of the real culprits - the Corporate Feudal Lords you cannot vote in or out of office. Hidden taxes by them all over the place, but you have no representation.

THAT you're okay with ... poor Russel. Following the party line.

Since the Red States are by far the people on the Public Dole, people in glass houses ... well you know.

By far most recipients of government assistance are either retired, disabled, military vets or hard-working low income earners. You call them "lazy"?
There are approx. 4 million getting direct welfare payments from the government, primarily white single women with children ... Are they lazy too?

The " lazy" good for nothings collecting welfare is soooo 1980's ... long gone era, along with Ronald Reagan, thank God.

You wanna live in Texas with 1/4 of the population without healthcare, go ahead, if that's your idea of good government and fine place to live.

You Republicans crashed the economies of the world and then want to point to government failures because the crash caused economic hardship? That's rich.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 10:47AM

Hey, dummy...

You like to crow about Red States having the most people on Federal assistance...

...But did you ever stop to think about the percentage of people in Blue States who receive state and Federal assistance?

...And did you ever stop and think about who MOST of those people vote for??

Here's a clue: They vote for Liberal Democrats.

That's because they're lazy, worthless 47%-ers who do nothing but suck on the Federal teat and demand more and more from the productive class.

BTW, dummy...the majority of the Productive Class lives in the Red States, and doesn't vote for Liberals.

If secession ever became a reality, it would be Atlas Shrugging.

That's because the productive classes would pick-up and move to the Red States that are seceding. But do you know who else would come?

Lots and lots and lots of hypocritical, wealthy Libs who know where their bread is buttered. That's why they watch their own money like Conservatives.

So you'd be left with the rabble in the Blue States, and they'd eat you alive.

Idiot.

Russel| 12.10.12 @ 2:37PM

He doesn't CARE about thinking . He is PAID to bother us . But his ilk are SCARED their gravy train may just up and leave them to fend for themselves .

ArmyAviator| 12.10.12 @ 11:10AM

I want to live in a nation where FREEDOM and FREE ENTERPRISE rule the day. Not the Liberal Socialist society envisioned by Barack Hussein Obama, Hillary Clinton, Noam Chomsky, Che Guevara, Adolf Hitler, or YOU PURP. Our Founders fought a revolution so that God-given RIGHTS would be respected by the government THEY CHOSE. Those days have ended and we no longer have a government of, by and for the people. We have a TYRANNY and it must end! I get a kick out of your utter ignorance and proven lack of reality. Who do you think passed those CORPORATE TAX goodies? It was Liberal Democrats, not Conservatives. OBTW without Federal meddling, states can put people to work doing something instead of sitting around all day smoking cigarettes and drinking beer, paid for by those of us who work and pay taxes. States can also rid themselves of social parasites and illegal aliens. You might want to change blends of the dope you smoke. It's got you all rattled and discombobulated. I would hate for you to suddently defenestrate yourself, as it would deny many of us the good laughs you so skillfully provide us each time you spew forth your ignorance, bias and foolishness.

Anthony| 12.10.12 @ 9:22AM

My, my, what a little good little "Obozo patriot" Purp and the other trolls have turned into. Have you noticed their total and complete obsequiousness towards "The One"?
Suddenly, the scum of the Occupy Wall Street movement have become perfect little goose-steppers. No riots now, especially since the Muslim Marxist got re-elected.
Why I bet Purp was wearing his official Obozo uniform complete with his merrit badges in community organizing, Alinsky studies, Marxist redistribution, and with dumpster diving.
The sooner we start kicking some ass, the sooner America will be retored. It's up to us, the pols in Washington are useless self serving turds.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:37AM

You LOST, it hurts, too bad, get over it. Lashing out at me and others is pointless, you still LOST to the black man. How did you lose?

Can you figure it out? Must have been Acorn, huh? Ya know that organization that's been disbanded for over 2 years. Ya, let's blame them.

Still in denial I see. Well enjoy your tax raise come Jan 1.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 10:50AM

The nation lost because selfish, under-educated people (not you, since you're obviously not old enough to vote) voted to take more from the productive class because they're envious of success.

Hey, BTW...per your challenge from Friday, I'm still waiting to see your amazing educational credentials.

Time to man-up, little boy!

Tick-tock!

Seek| 12.10.12 @ 2:12PM

Taunting a man by questioning his masculinity -- how quintessentially redneck...and boring.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 3:45PM

Whatever works, Alice...

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 4:42PM

He questioned his academic credentials - not his masculinity. How quintessentially liberal of you to ignore the facts and construct a false accusation. Boring, indeed...

ArmyAviator| 12.10.12 @ 12:03PM

Purp, you moron, we are not lashing out at you. You are lashing out at us. We are attempting to express our attitudes and opinions in an open and civil forum. You, on the other hand have invaded our space with your Liberal Socialist FLAPDOODLE. But by all means, please continue. You are a hoot and have made LAUGHING STOCK of yourself. Your ignorance and stupidity reveal your true nature. However, I will no longer reply to your ignorance and utter lack of reason. Frankly, you bore me. Why not sign in to one of your Liberal Socialist websites and rattle their cages with your Liberal rhetoric and verbal tomfoolery! Drunkedness can be sobered, Ignorance can be educated, but STUPID is forever.

Anthony| 12.10.12 @ 2:40PM

No moron, you and your misguided ilk lost. You see, when we producers decide to shut it down, they'll be nobody to pay for your goodies .
Even your merrit badge in dumpster diving won't do you any good as the dumpsters will be empty. It will be fun watching you fools fight over road kill.
So moron, when they raise my taxes, I just might retire and not feed you trolls any longer. Then you'll be paying for my retirement.
So thanks moron, and find a job, cuz I need my full S.S. benefits.
Hope and Change baby!!!

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 3:30PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

You are beyond stupid, purpie.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:14AM

Good Grief, Dr. Dum Dum ... can you read?
"We are not a mistreated colony of the mother ship any more. Our government is duly elected by the American people. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's just the way it is." -

The Founding Fathers would be ashamed of you. They were liberals, you fool.

Oh, and YOU are free, you stupid fool. Hardly would I want to be on the losing side.

You're just po'd because you lost an election. Grow up.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 10:52AM

The Founding Fathers were "liberals"?????

BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!!!!

Hey, dummy...you don't even know the difference between a "Classic Liberal" and a "Modern Liberal," do you????

LOL!!!

The Founding Fathers designed the Constitution specifically to protect against power hungry fools like Obama, and from the ignorant, non-productive rabble like you.

They were "Classic Liberals." That means "Conservatives."

Toying with your lack of education is soooo easy, it should be illegal!

CrackerHound| 12.10.12 @ 2:27PM

Purp, it is obvious that you do not understand the frustrations of decent, conservative and patriotic Americans who disagree with you. We are not "Po'd because we lost an election".

We are shocked and in disbelief that our government ignores the Constitution. We are outraged that despite overwhelming opposition, they forced Obamacare on us and continue to steal from our children with astronomical debt. We are angry that our president and his party's media arm continue to insult us and and take away our say over the future direction of this country. We do not live in a representative republic anymore. The government does whatever it wants without any boundaries whatsoever. If anyone opposes they are marginalized and scorned.

But above all....the party that was supposed to represent us has turned out to be a fraud. We feel that we will no longer have a say. We are without representation. Republicans are exactly the same as the Democrats and that is to say they are far left socialists along the Hugo Chavez mold.

Obama won despite his horrible record and obvious anti-American, marxist leanings. What does that say about our country, it's citizens and the party that opposes him?

We're done, you won! After a decades long fight, we are now Venezuela. Why should you oppose an amicable split from those you sincerely loathe and disagree with? Oh, I know...who's going to pay for this utopian dreamworld?

darcy| 12.11.12 @ 12:10PM

Excellent summary, CrackerHound.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 3:30PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

You are beyond stupid, purpie.

Seek| 12.10.12 @ 2:17PM

He's not scared. In fact, he's making good sense. Democracy doesn't mean a guarantee of victory; it means a guarantee of process applying equally to all participants. For the record, I never even considered voting for Obama. But breaking away from the U.S. because of a set of election results is preposterous.

If you really want more liberty, how about lessening the ranks of those who most of all voted for Obama -- the blacks. Or is it a lot easier to bully and taunt an "effeminate" white male poster with least bit of liberalism?

Fewer blacks = more liberty.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 3:48PM

You are over-simplifying the issue to an absurd degree.

No one wants to consider secession simply because someone we don't like won the election. That is a stupid assertion.

Rather, we see Obama and the ilk who elected him as the inevitable end-result of 50+ years of socialism and an ever-increasing, ever-present, all-powerful Federal Government that is extending it's tentacles into every last inch of our private lives, and we are DAMN SICK OF IT.

If you think this is ONLY about Obama, you are too stupid for words.

Obama is only a symptom of a greater sickness.

darcy| 12.11.12 @ 12:16PM

The proof of your statement that "Obama is only a symptom of a greater sickness" is the very fact that so many voters wanted him at the helm. The disease runs deep and wide, sad to say.

squalis| 12.10.12 @ 8:03AM

The frustration being described here arises from the tyrannical bullying of forced redistribution.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:39AM

'Forced'? By an election? What part of democracy don't you get?

More than 1/2 your taxes come from the State and Localities.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 2:07PM

When those to whom the assets are redistributed are the ones who vote for said redistribution and those from whom the assets are confiscated vote against it, one can hardly defend such thievery on the grounds that it is the result of the proper exercise of democracy. When someone seizes my assets against my will, it is FORCED - even if those who are conducting the seizure got together and held a vote beforehand.

Thank you, though, for demonstrating once again how the simple mind serves as fertile ground for cultivating liberals...

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 2:21PM

By the way, it is curious how quickly progressives cite the infallible nature of democracy when they vote to seize the assets of others, yet fail to recognize the democratic will of the citizens when they vote to say, define marriage as a union between one man and one woman. "Democracy is good when I get what I want, but a travesty when I don't." Simpleton.

darcy| 12.11.12 @ 12:18PM

Democracy for me but not for thee. Good point, Trinacria.

And the meaning of your handle, may I ask?

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 8:28AM

Purpie the Village Idiot's view of the unborn child:

"Purp| 11.7.12 @ 1:16PM

The unborn have no rights - they are biological entities until God allows them to be born."

Von Mises Jr| 12.10.12 @ 10:45AM

This is consistent with Caliban's view of all life, CJW. It does not belong to the individual but to the State.
This is why he flails like a little bitch when you won't surrender your life and property over to his masters. He is a coward like all liberals that don't even have the balls to challenge their stupid comrade’s stupid political correctness.
This is why I almost pity liberals. It must suck living life as a cowardly boot licker and beggar.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:56AM

YOU are the one to pity ... in your dog-eat-dog, greedy, egotistical, everyone for himself Lord of the Flies world.

It must really suck being you.

Von Mises Jr| 12.10.12 @ 12:07PM

You are blinded by ignorance and greed. You know nothing about me. But since you ask, I have been to Holy Mass twice in the last two days. I give generously. I volunteer often.
I just don't like little scum bags like you pick pocketing my wallet, Caliban.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 1:39PM

Listen Junior - I don't pick anyone's pocket... I don't need your poisoned money.

Thank you for your service ...
But if pocket-picking what you call supporting the military, the defense of the country and the operation of the government, the elderly, the disabled, the infirm, veterans, victims of disasters and children, then so be it.

You just need to pay up and shut up. Be glad you live in the most wonderful country in the world and be happy you can contribute to her greatness (puny that your contribution is, I'm sure)

Remember 1/2 your taxes are State and Local ... go see them for that "pocket-picking"
LMAO.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 3:31PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

You are beyond stupid, purpie.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 3:50PM

"the operation of government."

Nice vague, catch-all, all-encompassing phrase for absolutely ANYTHING the government wants to do.

Hey, idiot-boy...try looking at the Constitution to see what the Federal Government is actually allowed to do, then maybe you'll understand.

Probably not, but maybe...

Paul Kotik| 12.10.12 @ 9:53AM

Fascinating. You plainly detest the people who cannot abide sharing a citizenship with you.

Why do you insist they remain your fellow citizens if you loathe them so?

I believe it's because your ideology, like that of Hitler, Lenin and Khoumeini, requires you o impose it on others, howsoever unwilling they may be.

Your world is not complete without serfs.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:59AM

Paul - it's called "Rule of Law" and the U.S. Constitution.

Secession is illegal, treasonous, and punishable by the most sever punishment.

It was tried it once before, remember?

Not a very smart move, just because you don't like the outcome of an election.
Talk about overreaction ...
You're falling for the same propaganda of the people that brought you CrossRoads GPS and Americans for Prosperity ... it's all about them, YOU are the serf to them.

Le Cracquere| 12.10.12 @ 12:04PM

Actually, it was tried TWICE before. The first time was successful, so no one seriously questions its wisdom or morality in retrospect. And in fairness, the first time was also "illegal, treasonous, and punishable by the most sever [sic] punishment"--certainly by the then-government's laws and lights. At that time, someone pointed this fact out to a notable Virginian; his studied response was, "if this be treason, let us make the most of it."

Devil Child| 12.10.12 @ 12:17PM

The first time, the colony had no elected representation in Parliament, which was what we were originally fighting for. If the Crown had given the US equal rights and equal representation, than we would've been fighting for secession, but just like India a century and a half later, they didn't, so it was a rebellion, and we were justified.

The people of Texas, Georgia, and any other state that wants to secede already have equal representation in proportion to the population of the total nation, and equal rights under the federal law. If they attempted to secede, it'd be treason, which deserves nothing less than swift and brutal retaliation. If people in democracies with equal representation seceded every time a law they didn't like passed, democracy would cease to be a viable form of government. It's either putting up with laws instituted with the support of the equal majority, or surrender the world to the Russias and Chinas.

CrackerHound| 12.10.12 @ 3:16PM

Preamble to the Declaration of Independence:
"When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
2.1 We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2.2 That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

Le Cracquere| 12.10.12 @ 4:29PM

At that time, Englishmen in the mother country didn't have any degree of representation that we moderns would consider worthy of the name, by and large. Even if the colonies had had Parliamentary representation, it's not clear that those augmented "liberties" would have been worthy of living under for free men, or worth submitting to meekly.

On paper, anyway, the Baltic states and other non-Russian republics had full representation in the Supreme Soviet under Communist rule: were their post-1991 declarations of independence cases of treason against the USSR? If if so, was this wrong of them?

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 3:32PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

You are beyond stupid, purpie.

Anti-Statist| 12.10.12 @ 10:03AM

By your logic we should still be subjects of the British crown.

A government greatly overstepping its Constitutional bounds deserves revolt by a people wishing to remain free. In case you haven't noticed, the federal government has grown from servant of the people to its master.

I think that reverting back to a limited central government with states running their own lives and matters is the right way to go. One size doesn't fit all.

Federations within a country, like Germany has, where states and regions determine how they wish, for matters such as charity, morality, enterprise, and taxation.

The federal government can defend the country and otherwise stay the hell out of the lives of its citizens.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 11:03AM

Anti-Stat - are you also Anti-Corporatocracy?

'We are not a mistreated colony of the mother ship any more. Our government is duly elected by the American people. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's just the way it is.' - So, no, not by my logic. We are clearly not a colony looking for representation and self-determination...
The Government serves us, ALL of us, even if you don't like some things it does. We elected this government, and so abide by our representatives decisions, until we can vote them out. Apparently, we like President Obama and the Senate the way it is. The House, it is a changing.

Your statement is foolish and illogical.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 2:11PM

On behalf of my fellow readers, I wish to express our gratitude for demonstrating how crafting an effective argument entails far more than simply stringing together a series of randomly placed words. As you've masterfully demonstrated, when one overlooks this important fact, one makes an utter ass out of one's self.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 10:14AM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM

All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 10:56AM

So you again say that God killed over 100 people with Hurricane Sandy to help Obama win, Ambassador Stevens caused his own death, and the unborn have no rights.
You are truly an idiot.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 11:07AM

No, you said that, I didn't.

I parodied what Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson said about AIDS being God's punishment and Hurricane Katrina being God's punishment for New Orleans sins.

"God's Punishment" sounds pretty stupid doesn't it? That's how your side talks, not mine.

Since you don't know the difference between parody and truth, I can't be bothered either way.

Believe what you will, it's a free country.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 11:16AM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
log in or register to reply

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

Purpie, do you realize how stupid you are? And what a liar you are?

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 12:00PM

Not that I really care about what Pat Robertson says about AIDS, but...what if he's right?

And what exactly is wrong with a man stating that his religious convictions tell him that certain behaviors are wrong? ESPECIALLY if he can point to the specific passages in the Bible that point this out?

The Bible says a LOT of things are wrong; you can't be selective about what you want to be wrong/right simply because it affects you, personally.

The vast majority of AIDS cases could have been completely avoided if the behaviors that spread AIDS were also avoided.

Don't like that fact? Too bad, "Purp."

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 1:14PM

And you're a Doctor?
Doctor Dum-Dum is a good name for ya.

The HIV Virus causes AIDS, not the people. And, you blame the people?

You know, like "Guns don't kill people, people do"... you blame the people, not the gun

Abortion would be completely avoided if impregnation behavior was completely avoided - sounds just as stupid, doesn't it?

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 2:17PM

More idiocy.

The HIV virus is the pathogen that causes AIDS WHEN people engage in irresponsible and reckless behavior that needlessly exposes them to the virus.

For example, did you know that it's VERY hard for a woman to transmit HIV to a man?

It's not that hard for a man to transmit HIV to a woman...

And it's very easy for a man to transmit HIV to another man.

That's primarily because the mucosal lining of a man's rectum was NEVER intended (by God OR evolution) to be the receptacle for another man's penis. It's not durable enough (the vagina is actually lined with strong muscle), and it doesn't contain a natural defense against invading pathogens (the acidic nature of vaginal secretions is a natural defense mechanism).

So YES...again...most people who get AIDS get it because of their own reckless behavior. It's not Ronald Reagan's fault, or Pat Robertson's...it's THEIR FAULT.

And BTW, dummy...Abortion would be completely avoided if people kept their pants on and didn't have sex until they were mature enough to deal with the consequences.

If the truth offends you, too damn bad.

You want to go toe-to-toe on infectious disease with me, dummy?

Anthony| 12.10.12 @ 3:27PM

Game... set..... and match to Doctor Right. A most eloquent put down Doctor, bravo.
However, Purpie can go toe to toe with you on infectious diseases because Purp is an infectious disease.
This moron still thinks guns are a conscious entity capable of independant action.
These are the same morons that insist on believing Anthropogenic Global Warming, and the Muslim Marxist.
We need to rid America of the disease of Leftism damn fast.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 4:51PM

Sorry Anthony, but apparently, you are no Einstein either. You have no idea what I think, only what I say here.
Oh, what, you never thought of that?

Constant put downs without cogent arguments are so much fluff that shows more about you all than it does about me.

What does it say when you all have to come to a site to get reinforcement of your provably idiotic, radical and dangerous views? Can you not stand on your own and argue your position, or do you run out of talking points and have to bloviate epithets at me?

You don't like me because I don't agree with your ideology and backwardness. I get that.

But you still are backward and your ideology is a failure. The last 3 out of 4 elections are proof! Losers.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 4:46PM

You're a bigger idiot than I thought, Dr Dum-Dum. In an effort to prove your brilliance you actually throw open the doors to your narrow-minded attitude and your lack of scientific prowess.

"The HIV virus is the pathogen that causes AIDS WHEN people engage in irresponsible and reckless behavior that needlessly exposes them to the virus." - You mean like a blood transfusion or a man having sex with his wife? You mean THAT kind of irresponsible and reckless behavior?

Did YOU know that heterosexual sex is THE # cause of AIDS transmission?

Did you know that the virus can pass through any cut, including in the mucosal lining of the MOUTH? Your little lesson on the vagina doesn't stop a woman from being infected, does it? And how do you know if she isn't receiving anally from her man?
What's your point, other than to be homophobic?

You know nothing about Infectious Disease or the vectors that cause them, do you?

You also don't know the #1 reason behind all abortions, do you?

Your truth doesn't offend, it's silly, ignorant and stupid. It's simply ideological idiocy applied to scientific processes. Like I said, stupid.

Anthony| 12.10.12 @ 5:18PM

Oh oh, Purpie just let the cat out of the bag, BIG TIME.
Purpie, I bet you don't know this, but back in the '80s when AIDS was rampant, we were told by the homosexual community and their flacks in the health community that AIDS could NOT be transmitted by casual contact, ie kissing, cuts or other such contacts.
This was told to the hetrosexual population to ease any fears. Well thanks to Purpie, we were lied to.
And if indeed AIDS is now spread mostly through hetrosexual sex, it's due to the virus breaking into the hetrosexual community through bi- sexual sex, drug usage, and hubbies, who pretended to be straight, and gave their wifes AIDS caught at the bath house!!
Read "And the Band Played On" by Randy Shilts. You might learn something moron.
And now the entire gay community is pissed at you!!!

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 6:24PM

Purp the Village Idiot

You just replied that your words were the truth:

"Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM

All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like."

Please keep posting, peabrain. Your own words are the best replies to your lefty idiocy.

ArmyAviator| 12.10.12 @ 10:52AM

If the Federal Government was confined to its Constitutional role, there might be no need for any talk of Secession. However, you know as well as I do that the Federal Government IS NOT going to be so confined! One of the problems illustrated in the article is that Washington assumes a "one size fits all" approach to laws, rules and regulations. Whereas "gay" marriage may be just fine in California or Washington, IT IS NOT SO IN ALABAMA or FLORIDA. So many issues should be decided by the States opposed to Washington. For this reason, the Federal Government has become a TRYANNICAL Government. Ruling against the will of the people is TYRANNY! Therefore, SECESSION, with all the problems that it will bring, is the only solution. The little dirty secret of the matter is, many LIBERALS want to secede and form Liberal Socialist police states and nations, as much as Conservatives want to live in Freedom, and enjoy Free Enterprise. If Federal money is discontinued, then so is Federal "strings attached." In other words, if the FREE STATES can require people to get off their butts and WORK for a living, opposed to sitting on the porch and smoking crack all day, then who needs the Federal money anyway

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 11:12AM

Well aren't you special? You have all the answers.

Jealousy and envy are rampant in your pronouncements. But they are illogical.
Interestingly, Florida voted FOR this Government and re-elected a Senator and switched a few seats to the Democrats. So I think you're wrong on Florida. It won't be long Arizona, Texas will vote Democrat, as will North Carolina and Indiana again.
There is no tyranny when an elected Government makes decisions - even if YOU don't like it.

Secession is stupid, just because you're mad that you lost an election. It's ridiculous to hurt your country like that to make a point.
Secession is also very illegal, if you even care about the Rule of Law or believe in America.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 11:17AM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
log in or register to reply

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

Anthony| 12.10.12 @ 4:57PM

Purp the village idiot; "people don't kill other people, guns kill people".

ArmyAviator| 12.10.12 @ 11:55AM

PURP you ignoramous, cite which Title of US Code, along with paragraph that makes secession "very illegal?" The last time secession occured, the seceding states were pinned back to the Union, against their will, with BAYONETS. You Liberal fools are always saying the "might doesn't make right," but I guess it does when YOU say so.

Devil Child| 12.10.12 @ 12:23PM

Right makes right, you ignorant simpleton. And since the white secessionists were legally citizens, no "sixth-tenths" about it, even the unworthy traitors like yourselves are still as equal today as you were 150 years ago, and as wrong for seceding from a country where you're equal and represented then as you would be today.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 1:23PM

Good Grief - you don't know why the Civil War was executed?

Not my job to educate you.

But ...

Apart from Rick Perry, has any important living political figure or judge said there is a right to secede in the Constitution? If there was, the Confederates would have filed a lawsuit instead of firing on Ft. Sumter.

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia asserts there is no ability to secede. A State cannot sue the United States without the Federal Government's assent...which he says is unimaginable. So say it your Supreme Master....

http://cwmemory.com/2012/10/31.....secession/

Of course, this is when liberals were being just as stupid in 2006 as you are now wanting to secede.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 2:21PM

Hey, genius...

Do you know why they say "Treason never prospers"?

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 4:36PM

Secession is treason

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 4:47PM

No, sport. Tyranny is treason. Secession is the lawful means by which a principled people announce their intent to exercise their liberty and decline to submit to tyranny.

It's easy to see how the simple mind could confuse the two...

Devil Child| 12.10.12 @ 11:23PM

No, sport. Declining to submit to the authority of the majority of your nation when even an unworthy simpleton such as yourself has equal standing with the law as them is treason.

It's easy to see how the simple mind could miss that.

Petronius| 12.10.12 @ 3:40PM

A A
You left out the definition pronounced by the Leftist Tyrannical government in Washington D.C. of Who "The People" are. According to them and that chancre on our body politic, Purp, any and all who oppose Them are Not "The People." The bottom line is simple for Traditional Americans. We claim the Sovereign Right to live by and for Ourselves without any hindrance from predators, perverts, parasites, and unelected institutional authority antithetical to Our independence and private pleasure.

C. Vernon Crisler | 12.10.12 @ 11:18AM

But of course Purp, liberalism and Progressivism just are turning one's back on one's country. They've been doing it ever since TR.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 1:25PM

Got that backwards, Chuckles

C. Vernon Crisler | 12.10.12 @ 2:28PM

Sorry for the mix up. It's Progressivism and liberalism rather than liberalism and Progressivism that are just turning one's back on one's country.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 4:35PM

Wow, so clever ... from a troglodyte.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 5:11PM

I'm embarrassed for you.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 6:26PM

T
We could not make up the idiocy written by purpie, so he does serve the purpose of showing the intellectual and moral bankrupcty of the left, as best shown by his own words.

Quartermaster| 12.10.12 @ 5:43PM

Tell that to George Washington, Jefferson, John Adams, Sam Adams, John Hancock, Ben Franklin,....

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 7:50AM

I am not loyal to the Federal Government; they are greedy, unscrupulous pigs feeding at the trough of other people's money while Rome metaphorically burns.

I am loyal to my country. And if my country is to survive, the federal leviathan in Washington DC must be dismantled. That's not likely to happen, given that 50% of the population prefers freebies and servitude to Liberty.

Thus...secession. Why not? The Soviet Union peacefully devolved. So can we. And I fear we must.

Jacob McCandles| 12.10.12 @ 10:54AM

Many of us have sworn to defend the Constitution. Some day, that oath may be what saves us.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 11:23AM

Dr Dum-Dum - I get no freebies from the Government, but yet I support a strong Federal Government. You don't. I get that. Luckily you lost.

But what are you going to do when you need help beyond your control or means, from whatever comes your way? Suffer? Kill yourself? What?

Do you not believe in community service?

Secession is not the answer. You're wrong on your figures.

Lots of people that don't get a thing from Government voted for the President and the Senate and kicked some out of the House.

How do you explain them, millions of them? I might add that most indigent people don't vote at all. Even more 'splainin' for you to do. Can you explain?

YOU are the only ones that make money, are 'producers', job creators, are proud of your country, believe in freedom and liberty, believe in the Lord and are moral people? Is that what you believe ?Seriously?

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 11:34AM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

Purp do you realize how stupid, and what liar your are?

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 1:26PM

Having fun? Your posts are out of context, just like Fixed News, just as irrelevant when you cherry pick what you like and toss the rest.

Can't you make an argument yourself, you twit!

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 1:48PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

You are beyond stupid, purpie.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 6:51PM

Purp the Village Idiot

Since you are too stupid to understand, I post your words to show what an intellectual and moral fraud you are, so the context of your daily drivel does not matter.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 2:27PM

What a bizarre, incoherent reply...

If/when I ever need "help beyond my means," the first thing I'll do (like any self-respecting person should do) is speak to my family, my friends, and my church. Government assistance would be a LAST resort, and even then the objective would be to get off of it as soon as possible. There used to be a social stigma attached to being a financial burden on other people. In fact, the Bible says "Those that don't work don't eat." But nowadays, thanks to morons like yourself and the politicians you elect, it's not shameful at all to be on the dole...it's an "entitlement."

I never said a thing about "community service."

How do I explain millions of voters re-electing Obama? Simple:

There are millions of lazy, uninformed, unproductive slobs in this country. Add to that the selfish special interest groups and you've got a coalition.

And YES...the overwhelming number of people who produce in this country voted for Romney.

What's it like to be proven wrong by me each and every day, little boy?

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 3:43PM

Now you know why Romney and by extension, YOU, lost. Your attitude toward your fellow Americans stinks.

So Social Security and Disability, Medicare, Tricare, Unemployment, Food Stamps, Medicaid recipients... those are the people "on the Dole"?
Are you serious?

Who else are these" lazy, uninformed, unproductive slobs" you are referring to?

And you have the nerve to quote the Bible. It also says stone a woman for adultery and not to eat shellfish. You are dumb.

I'm sure you not so stupid you don't realize that everyone turns to family, friends and Church first. What then? Die?

Who else are you talking about? 40% of the White Population voted for the President - are they useless too? 73% of the Hispanic and 75% of the Asian population, and 95% of the African-American population - are they useless too?

You prove nothing except your selfishness and self-centeredness each and every day - not to mention your ignorance and lack of intellectual acuity.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 3:59PM

My attitude towards my "fellow Americans," the same ones who have no reservations about continuing to pick the pockets of productive, law-abiding citizens, is exactly what it should be: CONTEMPT.

FYI, genius, there's a distinct difference between what is said in the Old Testament of the Bible, and what's said in the New Testament of the Bible...and there's a REASON for the difference. Any thoughts on the matter, or do you want to keep showing your profound ignorance?

Funny that someone who wants a forced "redistribution" of other people's money would call someone else "selfish," but liberals such as yourself, in addition to having no brains also have no sense of irony.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 4:50PM

Amen brother...

Quartermaster| 12.10.12 @ 5:48PM

It may be that Purp is not a parasite himself, but he certainly is a member in good standing of the Parasite Caucus as he is one of many enablers of the parasites.

Butch| 12.10.12 @ 7:40PM

He's a parasite.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 2:27PM

"But what are you going to do when you need help beyond your control or means, from whatever comes your way? Suffer? Kill yourself? What?"

If I should ever find myself in a circumstance where the federal government is the only source of salvation, I shall immediately know that I am already lost.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 3:44PM

Good Luck when you retire Bub.

Count yourself lucky if you never need help - but words like that tempt fate. I'd be really, really careful if I were you.

God can hear you.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 4:58PM

I should have rather little to fear then, as God helps those who help themselves. I don't recall what he does to those who do not help themselves, though I suspect we might infer where he stands on the matter from the following line from scripture: "He who will not work shall not eat."

I do so love it when liberals have the temerity to cite God in their argument. I damn near bust a nut every time!

chuck| 12.10.12 @ 8:01AM

2 comments about your column.

First, there are those of us who are VERY serious about secession.

Second, when talking about states receiving more in tax dollar than they receive, remember that the Feds borrow 46 cents of every dollar they spend. That means EVERY state should be receiving about $1.90 for each $1 they send.

Paul Kotik| 12.10.12 @ 9:55AM

Indeed.

And since Federal funding is an instrument of corruption and social control, small wonder those states most flooded with at are precisely those who wish most strongly to be free of it.

There's no inconsistency or contradiction there at all.

chuck| 12.10.12 @ 10:17AM

Absolutely.

Personally, I don't want any of their shit, just defend the borders. Otherwise, just leave me the Hell alone.

JimH| 12.10.12 @ 8:28AM

I was looking at the voting maps on Fox on during Election night. These maps showed voting at the county level. One thing that struck me while seeing them was that much of the country in terms of land area was voting Republican. The Dem vote is concentrated in a few urban centers and some nearby suburbs. There are some anomalies to this where Dems having fouled their own nests in the cities have moved to escape the consequences of their actions. Examples of this are Boston and N.H. and L.A. and various parts of the South West. Rather than having productive patriots try to leave the country it would be better if we could remove these various tumors from the body politic. We should try to remove NY, LA, Detroit and the other hives of scum and villainy. Let them try to operate as independent city states without the taxes extracted from the rest of the country.

RCV| 12.10.12 @ 11:47AM

"Land" doesn't get to vote; people do.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 2:29PM

Pity. One suspects the land would be rather more discerning in it's electoral choices.

Butch| 12.10.12 @ 7:45PM

It's easy, RCV: secession at the county level-- the most local government of all. Enjoy you remaining country.

Seek| 12.10.12 @ 2:09PM

Those huge swaths of Red State America are misleading. Some of those states have more sheep and cattle than people. Land doesn't vote; people do. Boston, New York and San Francisco may be dots on a large map, but their population is dense and large. They carry a lot more clout than Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and Nebraska combined.

Anthony| 12.10.12 @ 9:06AM

Secession doesn't cut it. Too many good conservatives all over the country. What we need is to engage in a good old fashioned ass kicking of the left, and the RINOs.
This is our country despite the fact that the Muslim Marxist and his moron followers won the election. Sometimes the only way to rectify a mistake is to just kick ass and start over.

Paul Kotik| 12.10.12 @ 9:57AM

If you mean an electoral ass kicking - ain't going to happen. Those bought voters stay bought. You really see Miss Gimme Girl seeing the light, foregoing her welfare check, food stamps and Section 8 rent subsidy for the sake of Truth, Justice and The American Way?

If you mean some other kind of ass kicking, please elaborate!

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 1:44PM

So everyone that voted for the President is on welfare, food stamps, etc?

Is everyone that voted for Romney in the top 1%?

What an idiot.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 1:50PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 2:47PM

Ah, Grasshopper; as usual, you've failed to recognize the real truism here. Just as not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims, the real insight to be gained here is that while not all people who voted for Obama are on welfare/food stamps, all people who are on welfare/foodstamps voted for Obama.

Once again, you have masterfully exposed the hypocrisy of liberalism. When a class of citizens like those on food stamps votes en masse to preserve an asset based on self interest, it's a principled exercise of their democratic rights; when the 1% votes to limit the degree to which the government can seize their hard earned assets, it's an odious exercise of unpatriotic greed.

By the way, please don't allow the criticism to discourage you from further comment; while it's clear you have nothing meaningful to contribute, I must confess I find it rather charming when the help insists on joining the discussion.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 3:53PM

And you make the dogmatic mistake of assuming that everyone did exactly as you say they would.

All terrorists are NOT muslims, so your analogy falls apart. Recall Sarin Gas, Timothy McVeigh, Columbine, and on and on.

"The Help" - that's rich, since I am in the top 2% of earners, and you people are so lost you don't even know that my class has you subjugated and leading you to the slaughter. Not unlike Germany in the 1930's. Propaganda is powerful, but not truth.

But believe as you will. It's your life.

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 4:03PM

Are "all" terrorists Muslims? No.

Just most of them. Like 99%.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 6:00PM

Purpie the Village Idiot

Again, with your own words you prove what a stupid, little lefty totalitarian you are, and don't care about the so called "working people" that your leader Obama supposedly represents:

"The Help" - that's rich, since I am in the top 2% of earners, and you people are so lost you don't even know that my class has you subjugated and leading you to the slaughter."

Doctor Right| 12.10.12 @ 4:03PM

Are "all" terrorists Muslims? No.

Just most of them. Like 99%.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 4:34PM

What a DA ... 1 Billion people are terrorists?

You need help...

Trinacria| 12.10.12 @ 5:07PM

"The Help" - that's rich, since I am in the top 2% of earners, and you people are so lost you don't even know that my class has you subjugated and leading you to the slaughter.

Know who else is in the top 2%? Snooki, SnoopDogg, Brittany Spears, Paris Hilton, and Al Sharpton. Congratulations, Purp; you're truly among elite company.

That aside; allow me to let you in on a little secret. Some of us know you're NOT in the top 2%, because you violated an inviolable club rule. Think about it for a while; I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Quartermaster| 12.10.12 @ 5:52PM

Certainly not all tangos are Muslims. Some of them are Dimocrats like Purp. So that relieves some of the onus from the Islamocrazies shoulders. Like Carter appreciates Obama, I'm sure Muslims appreciate Dimocrats.

Butch| 12.10.12 @ 4:58PM

No, only 90 percent, Purp: welfare riders of all stripes and labor-union thieves. The remaining 10 percent are same-sex-oriented misfits and losers who fear competition.

Anthony| 12.10.12 @ 3:33PM

Come now Paul, you can't be as brick headed as Purpie, can you?
Ass kicking means just that, ass kicking.

sbark| 12.10.12 @ 9:14AM

Forget the tripe about the Red states as moochers. Who supplies the vast majority of Food, Fuel,cotton for clothing to this bunch of soft study Liberals parked predominatly on the coasts. They essentially rape our raw materials for their lifestylyes and then think that because they ship 1.29 back they are doing us a favor........

Wasnt the 1st civil war really started over economics also?

Russel| 12.10.12 @ 9:49AM

Right . That's what I've said about the " producing " states . The majority supply Beef , Coal , Oil , Wheat , vegs . , et al .. The panhandling states are now deemed 'the rust belt ' , tho one never hears that term now . At one time , those big dirty cities manufactured , but now are wasting buildings and empty parking lots . They produce nothing except poverty and neediness . Detroit , Cleveland , Pittsburgh are perfect examples . Now , you'll hear the socialist cry " What about Silicon Valley ?" . Tho an anomaly , that manufacturing , intellect and inventing center actually needs DC protection . Japan , S. Korea etc. have been neutered in that respect . The thin strip of coastal cities simply recycle money and produce nothing either . So there's your makers vs the takers .

Maxwell| 12.10.12 @ 10:23AM

Russel, with all due respect, you forgot Trenton which had Roebling Steel & Camden which had Campbell Soup.

Russel| 12.10.12 @ 2:42PM

I'm sure , Maxwell , the list goes on . There's one in Ohio that used to make many wonderful steel products , one of which were my favorite cabinet hinges . Long gone to rust now .

Paul Kotik| 12.10.12 @ 9:59AM

More than that - moochers? How about the abundant Federal "generosity" to Red states as the CAUSE of secessionist sentiment there?

Federal funding = federal control.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 1:46PM

Wow, you just through the entire Industrial Midwest , Mountain West and Florida under the bus ...

Take away air conditioning and see how fast you move your a** up North.

Petronius| 12.10.12 @ 4:02PM

In Very Truth sbark. In 1860 there were more millionaire in Mississippi than Manhattan. The Yankees wanted Their money. The trouble started in the 1830's when Southern planters began shipping raw cotton to Lancashire mills in British bottoms. The ship owners from Baltimore to Boston were cut out of the mix. Since they were no longer getting their cut of that action, slavery then became unacceptable in other circles beside the altruists and academics. And today Obama claims his tax increase demands are not "for spite." Yeah right. He told his legions of parasites to "vote for revenge."
I'd like to see all the Midwestern farmers and energy industry concerns go John Galt and shut down to starve out the lowlife in the Demoncrat cities.

Frank Drackman| 12.10.12 @ 9:33AM

I don't get it.
Don't we want everybody to Succeed, States included?
Frank

djn1313| 12.10.12 @ 10:06AM

Secession may be our only hope to break away from the corpse of obama's welfare empire. obama is systematically destroying our economic and military power. Why should the Conservative states sacrifice their wealth to bail out the demoRAT corrupt states?

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 1:47PM

You're wrong, but you have no choice anyway...

http://cwmemory.com/2012/10/31.....secession/

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 1:52PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

Quartermaster| 12.10.12 @ 5:56PM

Scalia is wrong, both in law and history. All of the black robed morons on the SCOTUS need to take the Constitution by the 4 corners and read it. That includes the so called conservatives. Secession is no where near illegal.

djn1313| 12.10.12 @ 10:08AM

obama's goal is to destroy our union as we know it. obama is the greatest threat to our survival as a united nation.

nathan| 12.10.12 @ 10:32AM

Jefferson said in the Declaration that when people are reduced to a state of despotism they have both the right and the obligation to deal with the despot. In the case of places like North Korea there's not much question that such despotism exist. Does it here? I'm asking the question not answering it. With the passage of the unconstitutional New Deal and later Great Society programs and the failure of republican presidents and congresses to even try to roll back those country destroying programs starting with Eisenhower who was liberal to the core but even going to Reagan who made zero effort to address the most critical problem facing him (no it wasn't the Soviets) we can safely say the republic as envisioned by the Founders is long gone.

Is secession a suitable remedy? We forget that it's not nice and clean cut. The south found not everyone wanted to go, for example the western counties of VA and areas around Knoxville. Look at this year's voting map. There are major areas of TX who voted with the democrats. Would you allow a "secession from the secession" by those would consider red state rule to be despotic? The south certainly ruthlessly crushed dissent from its secession. Would TX and others do the same and in doing so would that make them any better than what they were seceding from? It's a messy world folks.

Devil Child| 12.10.12 @ 12:27PM

But the founders never seceded, they rebelled, which is, and always will be, different.

Rebels are unequal by the laws of their territories, and fight for equal treatment however they can get it.

Secessionists are equal by the laws of their territories, and fight when something happens they don't like even though they were equally represented in the passage of what they didn't like, but just happened to wind up on the side of the minority.

Secession is wrong now, has always been wrong, and will always be wrong. Those who rebel are heroes, and those who secede are traitors, and deserve treatment as such.

nathan| 12.10.12 @ 12:46PM

They seceded because they were not trying to overthrow the government in London. They were just trying to limit its writ in the new world. The French revolution, so well documented in a Tale of Two Cities was a true rebellion because those people were overthrowing the entire government where ever it existed. And being horribly messy about it. Just as we see with the "arab spring" the "rebels" weren't all that much better than the people they were getting rid of.

Quartermaster| 12.10.12 @ 5:59PM

The Declaration of Independence is a document of secession. It said what they founders were doing, and why they were doing it. The South exercised their power under the 10th amendment to secede and it was done by the republican institutions of each seceding state.

Alej| 12.10.12 @ 1:38PM

"There are major areas of TX who voted with the democrats. "

Hardly "major areas." They are more accurately known as the colored districts of major cities, which districts would be depopulated quickly in the event of secession and the Texas version of "social justice."

nathan| 12.10.12 @ 2:06PM

Alej: Their home, their property in some cases going back 150 years. And in other states contemplating secession some of those areas voting blue probably were sizeable. Again, look at what I wrote. The south stated they had a right to secede. Areas like Knoxville said, we don't want to go. If you have a right to secede, we have a right to secede from you. The south didn't agree and ruthlessly suppressed all efforts to do to them what the south did to the union. What if secession actually happens and two three four five counties especially in states adjacent to blue states don't want to go? How much "democracy" are secessionists willing to allow?

Do we do ethnic/political cleansing in violation of the Fifth Amendment? (We had enough of that with the Cherokees didn't we?)

I'm suggesting here that secessionists haven't thought this through, see this very simply, and think that okay just like with VA, as a state we're leaving and oops, the western counties said, "not so fast" so now what?

MelvinNC| 12.10.12 @ 10:46AM

This last election is living proof how the arrogant can be so blind about the neighbor who lives next to them.
I suppose we have been divided for a long time now, not just politically but socially. Drive through any neighborhood, you do not see a neighborhood of yards, but you see a neighborhood of privacy fences, secession on a smaller scale if you will.
The Federal government derives it's power over us through our social divisions. The weaker the masses become the stronger the Federal Government becomes.
Our Federal Government controls us through ignorance, because an ignorant man obeys and fears Federal authority, an educated man questions Federal authority and it therefore deemed a threat to the Federal State.
How many of us have had conversations with friends, or family and the topic has been, "We have this feeling that sever uncertainty is coming our way, something that that is going to be ugly."
At least in my opinion that something, is those rebelling against Federal Authority.

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 11:35AM

On that last point of federal government control, I always get a kick out of the presumption that "federal" means "all-knowing" and "overwhelmingly powerful."

Yes, they're powerful, all right, but they're hardly all-knowing. Just consider all the things, including tax reporting, where the federal government depends on the reporters telling them the truth voluntarily.

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 11:39AM

On the power issue it should never be forgotten that farmer peasants in Vietnam and one of the poorest nations in the world, the Republic of North Vietnam, fought the United States armed forces to the point where they cut and ran, leaving their South Vietnamese allies high and dry.

And American politicians will NEVER allow the federal powers to be exercised against U.S. citizens. We are no longer living in the world of 1861, when politicians had integrity and a willingness to fight. And World War II and Korea are also ancient history at this point.

Alej| 12.10.12 @ 1:44PM

The US armed forces didn't "cut and run," squirrelshit. They left after the North had been evicted from the South in 1973.

A Democrat Congress pulled the rug out from under the South two years later, in 1975, cutting off aid and logistical supplies, while Russia continued to pump billions into the North.

nathan| 12.10.12 @ 2:15PM

There's an old saying, Ho was willing to spend a million people to reunite the country, the Americans weren't willing to spend 100,000 to stop him. Very true. Eisenhower created the mess with the infamous domino theory. If Saigon goes then Laos goes then Cambodia goes then Thailand goes then Malaysia goes then Indonesia goes then India goes. Absolute bloody nonsense even then. This was strictly a local conflict. Ho had assisted American flyers during the war and approached Truman after the war. Truman should have talked to him.

But to neocons like Eisenhower (liberal domestically, neocon externally) he saw everything as needing American intervention. (Iran is one of his worst mistakes.) So start building the wall on the mall. He was wrong then and neocons who think we have to be every where now are equally wrong and didn't learn anything from the failures of the past.

Hey y0u all started this.

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 2:18PM

So all the complaining the Armed Forces did about their hands being tied by the politicians so that the RVN forces were able to fight effectively against them was false?

Do I have that right, REMF boy? Assuming you were there at all...

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 2:19PM

Not RVN, NVA. My mistake. Fingers moved faster than my brain. Squirrelshit in action.

Dennis Bergendorf| 12.10.12 @ 10:55AM

Ten years ago my wife and I spent a wonderful week in Hawaii. In reading the Honolulu Advertiser, I noted that the "independence" movement there is is alive and well. Spearheaded by native Hawaiians and other "progressives," I'm reasonably sure this secessionist movement is not considered an act of treason.

nathan| 12.10.12 @ 11:45AM

The "native" Hawaiians would naturally want to secede since for the most part they didn't have much of a say in joining the union in the first place. Similar to indigenous tribes on the mainland they had the proverbial gun put their heads and were largely overwhelmed by "manifest destiny" white imperialists who felt it was their right to take by force anything they desired. Does anyone seriously believe that a plebicite taken among only the native non white inhabitants of Hawaii would have resulted in a vote to join to union? Doubtful. Remember the 1887 "constitution" disenfranchised most all the native Hawaiians paving the way for a vote by the whites for annexation to the US. This was done under threat of violence and is called the "bayonet" constitution. Real Founding Fathers of those resident "Americans". I always like the line from James Michener's "Hawaii" about the missionaries, "they went out to do good and they very well." Did well indeed. To be sure a lot went out to "preach the gospel" but far too many as Michener pointed out were not averse to a bit of exploitation of those third world "savages." So more than most having been dragged into the union by force of arms against their will the native Hawaiians have a better claim to be allowed to go than most.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 2:03PM

See Justice Scalia's thoughts on Secession :

http://cwmemory.com/2012/10/31.....secession/

You are incorrect.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 2:52PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

You are beyond stupid, purpie.

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 11:00AM

Since we're disregarding the U.S. Constitution on a pretty much wholesale basis all the time these days, I guess maybe now would be a good time to review and renew Nullification Ordinances.

Washington passes Obamacare? Oklahoma nullifies the statute inside its borders.

Washington then cuts off federal funds to Oklahoma? What is now the point of Oklahoma staying in the Union?

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 11:44AM

Just as an aside: the South Carolina Nullification Ordinance, prohibiting the use of U.S. protective tariffs within South Carolina's borders, was repealed when the U.S. government sent ships to threaten the coast of South Carolina. The legality of nullification doesn't seem to have been decided. Maybe I'm wrong.

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 11:46AM

Today, the argument against state nullification of federal laws probably would be grounded in the Supremacy Clause, the Commerce Clause, and the Fourteenth Amendment.

RichTex| 12.10.12 @ 11:32AM

Wasn’t self-determination of peoples part of Woodrow Wilson’s Fourteen Points speech back in 1918? Is that principle ever going to apply to Americans?

Devil Child| 12.10.12 @ 12:19PM

Why yes. It's a lovely process called equal voting, and the best part about it is that if a large enough segment of the population votes in representatives who do what they want, the equally represented minority has to deal with it as long as they're equally represented. Since I'm pretty sure even a man as unworthy as yourself has never, and will never count, as six tenths of a person, your secession is treason.

Alej| 12.10.12 @ 1:49PM

The basic problem with the direction America is taking is the huge number of people who are allowed to vote that don't deserve that right.

deTocqueville explained that 200 years ago. Maybe you can find another 2/5 of a person to help you understand that concept.

RichTex| 12.10.12 @ 4:28PM

Actually,
Mr. Wilson was referring to the right of peoples to separate from their overlords and form their own nations. Specifically in his speech, it was the Austro-Hungarian Empire he wanted to see broken up.

KennesawJack| 12.10.12 @ 11:33AM

What most people here are discussing is a rarely mentioned principle of governmental structure known as the "Doctrine of Subsidiaity". This doctrine states, simply, that all governmental functions should be divolved to the lowest form of government that can most efficiently perform them. In other words, a LOCAL schoolboard should control LOCAL education, as it can do it much more efficently than a Federal bureacracy or even a State bureacracy. IT IS THE LINCHPIN AND THE FOUNDATION OF OUR CONSTITUTION. No one in the political punditry (that I've heard) EVER uses that word anymore when discussing the Federal government. I suspect if the word was used and the doctrine made understandable to the masses (no mean feat) maybe we could slowly have an awakening as to what the hell is going on in this Socialist Utopia wannabe that used to be a free Republic.

KennesawJack| 12.10.12 @ 11:36AM

By the way, the ONLY country in the world that I know of who religiously adheres to subsidiarity is
Germany. Care to compare their economy and unemployment rate to the rest of Europe and the U. S. ?

fmm| 12.10.12 @ 11:59AM

As with all other negotiations start with the most severe and back off till the proper balance is met. Secession is put forward as a threat wth the goal in mind of regaining sovereignty for the states and reduced interference by the federal beast.

Devil Child| 12.10.12 @ 12:08PM

Opposition to secession is much more important than just the issue of slavery.

Take Andrew Jackson. He was southern, socially conservative, pro-military, and pro-slavery: but Jackson said towards the end of his life his only regret was not shooting his secessionist VP John Calhoun.

If democracies end up with people seceding every time they become divided on an issue of any sort, democratic government becomes weak and unenforceable. If all 50 US states seceded tomorrow, the weaker ones would quickly fall under the authority of the more tyrannical ones, until they were all gobbled back up in one form of another through dictatorship and invasion.

A decentralized pre-Lincoln US was seen as a joke by the rest of the world. It was the only important democracy in the world outside Switzerland, and people often held us up as an example on why democracy couldn't work. Once we showed ourselves as able to hold together and enforce our laws while remaining democratic, a century and a half later, democracy became the dominant form of government on the planet.

If the US divides, the whole world will be taken under the authority of the Russias, Chinas, and Irans of the world. If we stay together, we might just drop authoritarianism forever.

Alej| 12.10.12 @ 1:54PM

It's a "republic," pseudointellectual Three-fifths.

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 2:24PM

New York City Metro talks about seceding every couple of decades.

I'd say, "Go and good riddance."

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 2:36PM

You are correct, everyone else is just being childish and demanding their way.

Petronius| 12.10.12 @ 4:11PM

And Sheriff Woods should have ordered the Illinois National Guardsmen to open up on the filthy hippies who now control all institutional authority in this country. And if anybody believes despots are willing to give up any power at all, their logic is on a par with a hat full of sheep feces.

Devil Child| 12.10.12 @ 11:25PM

If you're so feeble-minded you can't see the difference between a government you don't like and an authoritarian dictatorship, you're an intellectual traitor as well as a national one.

Seek| 12.10.12 @ 2:05PM

Secession, contrary to the argumanets advanced by those who revere St. Ron Paul, will not necessarily bring about more liberty. Indeed, it may bring about less.

First of all, freedom of movement, by definition, would be restricted. Should a state secede, in that very act, its leaders are rendering it a foreign country in the eyes of the other 49 states. Suppose a person, after residing in his new mini-nation, decides life there isn't all that good and wants to emigrate. It doesn't necessarily follow that any among the rest of America will take him in. Say this for our current arrangement: You don't a passport to cross from Indiana to Ohio.

Second, don't think for an instant that a new mini-nation will adhere to very principles upon which it was established. Sellout politicians operate in small as well as large nations. Should I perpetually be in a state of changing my citizenship because of this or that regim?

If anything threatens our national unity, it is race. Put simply, whites must remain in a clear majority. Peter Brimelow, proprietor of www.dare.com, understands this well. Restricting immigration from the Third World is the best long-term guard against secession.

Nations can't remain intact unless there is a common bond between the people. Race, more than the amorphous "values," is that source of cohesion.

AllAmericanAmerican| 12.11.12 @ 3:39PM

Seriously? 25,000,000 Mexicans would probably disagree with you that it would be hard to emigrate to the USA.

Pecos Pete| 12.10.12 @ 2:15PM

Interesting thread if the Village Idiots are ignored.

Secession will happen. Not necessarily because there is an armed revolt but because in years to come the USA will be bankrupt and experiencing hyper-inflation. Once the nation's currency has been totally debased, that's when secession will happen.

nathan| 12.10.12 @ 2:18PM

You sir may have a point. Which is why the folks who are called doomsday preppers may be on to something.

Bill8472| 12.10.12 @ 2:21PM

You mean, like after the house has rotted through, and it collapses, individual planks fall off? Secession like that?

Pecos Pete| 12.10.12 @ 6:30PM

Yep.

Purp| 12.10.12 @ 2:37PM

Scare mongering again? Is that all you people do.? What a depressive life.

CJW| 12.10.12 @ 2:52PM

Purp the Village Idiot posted the following after the elections:

"Purp| 11.8.12 @ 10:35AM

"The Lord rules, not Obama." - CORRECT!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... and this is something for the faithful to contemplate in the way the see the world:

So purpie believes God killed over 100 persons and destroyed millions of dollars of property to help Obama win.

In Sept Purpie wrote that Amassador Stevens was at fault and caused his death.

Purpie also wrote that the unborn are biological entities not deserving of protection until God allows them to be born. (What does this mean?)

Purpie represents the Loon Left that should be mocked and ridiculed, and not engaged in conversation

Reply to this
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Purp| 12.10.12 @ 10:41AM
All you're doing is spreading the true words that you don't like.

You are beyond stupid, purpie.

Ralph Novy| 12.10.12 @ 8:59PM

Methinks they're "fear junkies," Purp.

If they're not afraid -- nay, petrified -- they're not "alive."

LOL

AllAmericanAmerican| 12.11.12 @ 3:40PM

This is exactly what I think will happen. There won't be secession now---but when the SHTF? Yeah, all bets are off. I could see a State or group of States circling the wagons and telling DC, "see ya."

JeMeRappelle| 12.10.12 @ 3:06PM

"... Focus on devolving authority to states, localities, families and individuals." That's a wonderful sentiment, but you admit, "Washington is ever more imperious and unaccountable." So how can authority be reclaimed by state and local governments, families and individuals? What do you suggest?

Ralph Novy| 12.10.12 @ 8:55PM

"Why shouldn't people be able to reorder their political arrangements if they wish?"

No reason whatsoever, Mr. Bandow.

Those people should be absolutely free to pile on board rafts, boats, ships, planes, trains, automobiles -- whatever -- and transport themselves to whatever unpopulated parts of the Earth they wish to establish whatever sort of societal polity they wish.

Good luck with that.

In the meantime, I'd suggest to these folks that they recognize the likes of John C. Calhoun as filthy traitors.

jbspry| 12.11.12 @ 3:17AM

Most of the states with the strongest support for secession are the biggest "moochers and freeloaders," receiving substantial financial transfers from the national government: Missouri gets $1.29, South Carolina gets $1.38, Louisiana gets $1.45, and Alabama gets $1.71 for every $1 in taxes paid.

This is no doubt true. But note that all are southern states - states with large African-American populations - who, whether we want to say so out loud or not, receive a disproportionate share of federal welfare assistance, no doubt to the chagrin of the taxpaying citizens in these poor states. It is not "the state" that receives federal funds so much as certain of its citizens. Those citizens are not the ones signing the secession petitions.

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