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A Further Perspective
Finding Hispanic Votes
Republicans have no choice but to start looking for them again.
Beginning in 2000, the Republican National Committee embarked on an outreach program among Hispanic voters. It did surveys and trained speakers to go out into communities to make contact with voters. Many of them spoke Spanish. The program was tailored to Hispanic/Latino groups from various ethnic origins. It paid off. The party’s share of this vote went from 21 percent in 1996 to 44 percent in 2004. (It helped that then-President George W. Bush speaks Spanish.)
By 2008, Sen. John McCain still got 33 percent of the Latino vote to Obama’s 67 percent. This time, however, the president’s vote climbed to 71 percent and Romney’s dropped to 29 percent.
Why the steady slippage? Partly inattention, partly rhetoric, and partly negatively perceived policy positions.
The easiest to solve is the first. The RNC should replicate its careful work of 1999 and 2000, surveying attitudes among Hispanic populations, training speakers and community liaison workers to reach out to these groups. It might even consider setting up community offices in some cities.
The rhetoric and policy positions will be much more difficult to turn around. Senator Marco Rubio of Florida began to draft legislation to allow college-age undocumented aliens a chance to enroll or enter the armed services if they had come to the U.S. as infants. When the Obama Administration got wind of it, they trumped it with their “Dream” Act. A similar bill was put to a vote in California. Not a single Republican legislator voted for it. How’s that for compassion and understanding?
Negatively perceived rhetoric and policy positions are often coupled. For example, in 1994, California’s Governor Pete Wilson campaigned in support of a ballot issue to deny illegal aliens any public services. It passed. This was widely understood by people of Mexican descent as a slap at all of them — legal or illegal. As a result, California’s Republican Party was from then on seen as unfriendly to people of Latino/Hispanic descent. It remains so to this day.
Many conservatives raised demands for the federal government to complete the authorized border “fence” (in its various forms) to put a stop to illegal immigrant inflow. Some, particularly office holders, said, in effect, “Do this first, then let’s discuss what to do about the approximately 11 million already here.” Many Hispanics were skeptical, worried that once the fence was completed, the rest of the discussion would not take place. Such is the state of trust.
Illegal immigration has declined in recent years, partly a result of the U.S. recession, partly because of better border security, and partly thanks to improved economic conditions in Mexico which have created more jobs.
Looking to a day when the border is fully secure, the big question remains: What to do about the 11 million undocumented aliens here already? Many have been here for several years at least. Some critics contend that since “they broke the law coming here, they should go to the back of the line for legal immigration.” Sounds tidy, but in reality if all 11 million did that and all 336,000 annual green card quotas were assigned to them (most unlikely), it would take 30 years for all of them to be processed!
Some Republican lawmakers are beginning to talk openly about comprehensive reform. Mr. Obama talked about it four years ago, but did nothing. Such reform might involve issuing a work permit parallel to a green card, to those who met certain defined standards. This would neither grant nor imply “a path to citizenship.” Thus the “third rail” presented by the word “Amnesty” would have its electricity cut off.
Republicans in Congress should seize the initiative and present legislation. The next step would be for some of our bright new Hispanic/Latino stars to fan out on speaking tours. Sen. Rubio, Sen.-elect Ted Cruz of Texas, and New Mexico Governor Susana Martinez come to mind to mount this effort.
All of this can be done. The question is, will Republicans summon the will to act?
About the Author
Peter Hannaford was closely associated for a number of years with the late President Reagan, beginning in the California Governor’s office. His latest book is Presidential Retreats.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (113) | Leave a comment
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Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 11.29.12 @ 6:16AM
One thing your article didn't mention is that Senator Kay Hutchinson, a Republican, stopped the fence from being built.
She placed an amendment in a bill in 2007 which allowed the DHS Secretary to stop building the fence which had been authorized the year before.
The Republican party has been on the amnesty train since Ronald Reagan opened the can of worms.
If we've gotten to the point that Republicans must encourage law breakers with legal semantics then the Republicans deserve to lose.
A political party with no will stands for nothing and will fall for anything.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 10:34AM
I would just like to remind some people that I was for Romney picking Rubio for the Veep slot. I gave my reason for doing so, thusly: "For obvious reasons."
Also: Occam's Razor.
I could really use a High Paying Job.
If anyone knows anyone that has an Opening that reads something like: "Know It All needed. Must be ready to Start Immediately."
I would appreciate a heads up.
Bob K| 11.29.12 @ 12:24PM
Republicans have to start finding White Middle Class voters, especially Male voters, first. Too many are voting Democrat or staying home because the Republican party has offered them nothing except Military service in the near east. (With no jobs in America for them when they muster out of the service.)
Like it or not, the Republicans have to start playing Coalition Politics if they want to win in the future. White people, especially white males, are there for the taking. The Democrats don't want them. Obama doesn't want them, he despises the "bitter clingers!"
Make no mistake--to paraphrase a famous Boston Democrat, "Tip" O'Neill; All politics is racial; just as "all politics is local." The democrats have expanded that and made it racial also with Affirmative Action, Diversity, Tenure, Job preferences which they control. These are their keys; the access to their political power!
And the Republican party needs it's natural constituency, white voters, as it's first coalition and it has to make changes to get these people back into the party.
Tafuna| 11.29.12 @ 4:09PM
This is true. We need to get our coalition to vote at over 90% for our side just as Dems have gotten blacks to vote over 90% for them. My nephews, young white males, all voted for Obama yet they are jobless. We need to convince all male white voters that it is not in their interest to vote Democrat and bring our percentage of their votes as close to 100% as possible. As disgusting as racial politics are, since we refuse to play we lose. If we play and we get the nation's largest racial group, whites, to vote as heavily for us as the Dems do their racial groups, then we win regardless of how much they pander to their constituents.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:51PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
LONE STAR| 11.29.12 @ 7:08AM
"Comprehensive reform" means amnesty, which means millions more Democrats.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 12:30PM
Concur.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 3:09PM
I don't think you guys have a Clue as to what's in store for us.
You're making your assumptions on the premise that we have a Constitution and Seperations of Powers. You're living in the Past. This is not your Father's United States of America.
President Ramses don't need no Steenkin Congress. No Federal Judges. No Courts.
He put in place an ILLEGAL Drilling Moratorium, AGAINST the Orders of a Federal Judge, after his Forged Documents were Denied by that Judge.
He waged an ILLEGAL War against Libya.
He committed an ACT OF WAR, when he Ran Guns to the Mexican Drug Cartels.
He made Multiple ILLEGAL Reccess Appointments, after ILLEGALLY deciding, for himself, that the Senate was not really in Reccess.
He Unilaterally decided that he WOULD NOT ENFORCE the Immigration Laws on the books.
He Unilaterally ended the Work Requirements from the Welfare Reform Law, even though the Law states, Unequivocally states that that could not be done.
Am I going too fast for you?
He will wave his hand, and PROCLAIM that every Illegal is now a Citizen.
So, let it be Written.
So, let it be Done.
Count on it!
Santiago| 11.29.12 @ 3:16PM
This is why Republicans should/should have remove(d) the issue from the table, so that Democrats can stop beating them over the head with it and successfully painting them as anti-Latino. In my view the best possible solution would be to do the usual fines/back taxes/get to line to file out your application deal but only to make illegals able to legally stay and work, WITHOUT giving them a path to citizenship. By having Republicans take the initiative this would get the issue off the table, making them look accepting of Latinos (there goes a page from the Democratic playbook) while at the same time actually neutralizing the threat of the incorporation of millions of new, potentially Democratic-leaning voters, because they would never become part of the electorate. It would be politically brilliant. Alas, the chance to do this likely passed by a number of years ago (sigh).
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:52PM
Exactly.
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
JmsA| 11.30.12 @ 2:45PM
"I don't think you guys have a Clue as to what's in store for us." I do. That which you pointed out above, it's but the preamble. I've seen tyrannical socialism in full bloom. Wait until the socialists consolidate their power.
GobBluthe| 11.29.12 @ 7:19AM
Yet both prop 182 and Pete Wilson won overwhelmingly. The problem with the CA GOP is their base has moved away out of state. My guess is the CA GOP does worse today than they did with all groups versus 1994.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 12:32PM
Not only has [part] of the base moved out of the state, but California has been the recipient of leftists from all over the country, e.g., Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer, originally from Maryland and New York, respectively.
Teflon93 | 11.29.12 @ 7:48AM
Ayiyi.
Do you people really fall for every bit of bullshit the Democrat media puts on your plate?
How about instead of chasing the chimera of the Hispanic vote you work on getting the Asian and white women vote---two core constituencies who have a LOT more in common with conservatives?
spike59| 11.29.12 @ 10:03AM
how about, instead of chasing categories and sub-groups of voters, you work on articulating sensible policies, and do a better job of explaining the disastrous outcomes, both economic and cultural, of the Leftist Plantation/NannyState?
otherwise, the option is to step aside, let the Statists do what they will for the next four years, and start pulling the survivors out of the rubble in 2016; maybe the only way for the electorate to learn is to experience the 'hot stove moment' of reality
Santiago| 11.29.12 @ 3:23PM
Hispanics/Latinos/whatever you want to call them are NOT monolithic. There are plenty of them that have much in common with conservatives, while there are others that don't. Hispanic is a term to refer to people from the same general region of the world. It means that they or their ancestors have or had a common language. And that's about it. Mexicans are not Cubans who are not Colombians who are not Brazilians. "Hispanic" is not a race, a person can be a black Hispanic, a white Hispanic, a brown Hispanic, a red Hispanic, and even an Asian Hispanic (Alberto Fujimori ring a bell?). And really, at the end of the day, it's not so much about crossing off or pandering to any particular group (that's a leftist thing), it's about "articulating sensible policies," like spike says, to anybody willing to listen.
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:29PM
Teflon: yup. Agree.
But it is very sad that Blacks vote for people who want to kill their babies, destroy their families, and keep them jobless. But we're the racists.
R Martin| 11.29.12 @ 8:02AM
A quiz: What's the difference between finding a way to coddle those 11 million illegals and ignoring prosecution of flash mob members who take over and loot retail businesses because there are just too many of them?
Just askin.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:53PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
Ryan| 11.29.12 @ 8:46AM
I always thought that there was room here for some sort of reasonable compromise that included both enforcement and work permits. I just think that neither party wanted the other to "win" so nothing ever got done.
AKraver| 11.29.12 @ 9:26AM
Okay Ryan, so what other areas of law are you willing to enforce subjectively?
Should work out an agreement with the Meth dealers? How about Bernie Madoff?
The point is that if the country ignores the Law with regard to the Illegals the Law loses much of its efficacy.
Santiago| 11.29.12 @ 3:47PM
You're right about how it's ridiculous to subjectively enforce the law, because the law there for a reason, but stop to think about what illegal immigration is for a second. The vast majority of laws that exist in our society are there because there is something morally wrong with what we proscribe, murder is illegal because it's wrong to kill someone. But if someone crosses a border, it'd be hard to find someone to argue that that's morally evil.
Illegal immigration is illegal because we didn't give a person permission to enter our country beforehand, but that's because of our decision, not because of a moral absolute. If a law is difficult to enforce, has it not already lost its efficacy? If so many people are willing to risk so much to come work in the US, and we're stingy with giving our permission in the form of visas, is there not the slightest chance that it's our policy that is inefficient? (and I speak specifically to those immigrants who come to work, not those that abuse the system, I'm aware of them and we can just deport their butts right back to where they're from).
My wife is foreign, and if I want to bring her to the US to live with a spousal visa, it will take me around 12-15 months and cost $1,200!! And that's for a foreigner who is married to a US citizen! But imagine a desperate potential immigrant with no connections or resources, how can we expect them to do it the right way when it's so needlessly difficult?
Cynical Observer| 11.30.12 @ 6:04PM
What you do mean by "needlessly difficult"?
Relative to their desire to be here, or our need for them?
Surely the latter is the key point.
Von Mises Jr| 11.29.12 @ 9:04AM
The answer is actually quite simple. Return all spending programs not Enumerated in the Constitution to the States. States should stop redistributing wealth among the rural and suburban to the urban as we are apparently about to do on steroids in New Jersey.
Then let the people who live in an area decide if they want their taxes raised to provide these people entitlements, school and Medicaid.
The problem with this out of control government is Philly votes for freebees knowing the rest of PA will pay for them. CA and IL pay retired teachers $75K to $100K not to work figuring TX and IN will pay for it. It is really the same problem with have with our health care system. Who cares what anything cost if I can offload it to someone else?
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:53PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
AKraver| 11.29.12 @ 9:21AM
This author is exactly the kind of chump RINO/CINO we need to marginalize.
All you conservative still left, here's a Poll:
Is it easier to reform the Republican party (which includes booting out all these flacid old goats who don't even understand conservatism) or is it easier to start a new party?
Quartermaster| 11.29.12 @ 1:31PM
It would be far easier to start a new party. The reform idea has been tried and the people that tried simply got marginalized while having a bone thrown their way occasionally. After we voted, we were told to go away and stay away until the next election.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:53PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
Cynical Observer| 11.30.12 @ 6:12PM
Start a new party. There's no point in having a GOP that is basically a copy of the Democrats except that every now and then, it kinda sorta mentions that it would be nice if taxes were an eensy, teensy bit less. Which is about what's happening.
Just back in the US after several years in China. Reforming the GOP is like trying to reform the CCP ... there's nothing in it for them, so they'll talk endlessly while doing nothing.
Same point being made here:
http://southernpoliticalreport....._2818.aspx
Cynical Observer| 11.30.12 @ 9:20PM
Something like that is already taking place across the Atlantic, showing it can be done. Sometimes it takes a few elections, but it's possible.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....abour.html
Mike W| 11.29.12 @ 9:34AM
I like Reagan. I voted for Reagan but his 1986 Amnesty was a disaster for this country. If this writer had any connection to that disaster then he should know what it did to this country.
Don't import/legalize 11 - 20 million additional Democrats.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 12:36PM
I not only voted for Reagan twice, but also contributed to and worked in both his presidential campaigns in California. I was dismayed when he signed the Simpson-Mazzoli Immigration Reform and "Control" Act of 1986. Believe me, those amnestied vote and will continue to vote democrat.
PolishKnight| 11.29.12 @ 9:53AM
In the meantime, the white guy vote helped push Obama over the top in PA and OH and other rust belt states. Apparently, since Republicans had "binders" full of goodies for every other special interest group, they tend to stay home or wind up buying BS from ads from the Democrats.
But good luck with trying to compete with the left for racist entitlements for La Raza with the Dems. Good luck with getting abortion outlawed and keeping those taxes low for the rich!
TrueBlue | 11.29.12 @ 11:04AM
Since I believe in equality I'd rather focus on low taxes for EVERYBODY.
PolishKnight| 11.29.12 @ 11:16AM
Good luck with that.
Republicans pandering to Hispanic racist groups such as La Raza while ignoring civil rights abuses against their own electorate reminds me of some of my former girlfriends who fell in love with "bad boys" and would do anything for them and then proceeded to take what I did for them for granted. So I said thanks and goodbye and a few months later, I'd get drunk dialed calls from them begging me to come back.
Except that Republican conservatives are too dumb to drunk dial.
TrueBlue, you don't get ANYTHING without WINNING elections.
Santiago| 11.29.12 @ 3:51PM
La Raza is an extremist group, they are not representative of a typical Latino, and Republicans don't need to pander to that type of thinking, they just need to do old fashioned politics and talk directly to people and articulate sensible policies to as many as possible (admittedly a challenge with the leftist media filter, but I believe that it can be done).
PolishKnight| 11.29.12 @ 5:26PM
I understand what you're saying, but I want to harp a bit on the term "extremist" group. If a group wants to solve world hunger in a hundred years versus one who wants to do it in 10, is the latter group an "extremist" group? We talk about how the left has defined the debate and this is a good example. The left has altered the meaning of the words "bigot", "extremist" and "progressive" and of course "liberal".
What is "moderate" in this context exactly? That the "moderate" Latino thinks that all of South America should be able to come to the United States as they please even as their own countries they left would throw a European in the slammer in a matter of seconds for ignoring their immigration laws? And that they deserve special preferential treatment but instead of throwing Europeans into slave mines to make gold for them, preferential hiring and university admissions are acceptable?
Whether it's a big box of candy or a little, the Republicans can't compete with that.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:54PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
Bob K| 11.29.12 @ 7:24PM
"Extremist" is a throw away descriptive phrase which does not explain what La Raza is.
La Raza is a Nationalist, Populist Latino movement. It's goal is to nationalize the Spanish speaking peoples living in the American Southwest under a new government in order to regain land which the leaders of the movement believe was stolen from them by North Americans in the 19th century. They are really not far removed from typical recent Latino immigrants who know far more about Mexican history and culture than they do about American History; even American history as recent as WWII.
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:33PM
I don't think La Raza is that extremist if Hispanics are voting for Obama 2:1.
My two little Hispanics are being raised Conservative Republican, but that's all I can do.
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:32PM
And then you would tell them to ESAD, PK. Good on 'ya.
My wife, on the other hand, is the type of lady that I would put on the Lifeboat before me. They still exist, my friend.
Trinacria| 11.29.12 @ 9:53AM
Mr. Hannaford,
With all due respect...bullshit. As the venerable G.K. Chesterton astutely observed, tolerance is the virtue of the man with no conviction. When being liked trumps being right and one is willing to sacrifice the latter for the former by "redefining" right ("they're not illegal; they just happen to have the misfortune of being undocumented"), one becomes...well, a liberal. Sac up, grow a spine, and stand on principle.
By the way, did it ever occur to you that compromising principles (and the law) in order to win 11 million Hispanic votes might cost you just as many votes among the principled, hard working Americans who are constantly being forced to pay the freight?
PolishKnight| 11.29.12 @ 10:15AM
It's kind of funny, Trinacria, that white males are the real "undocumented" as far as the left goes. Obama's team had a 27 number list of different groups they were asking supporters to identify with. Whites and men were NOT listed. So whose undocumented? Who are the ones without full legal rights in the USA according to the left?
In the meantime, I saw a funny protest from undocumented immigrants for the "Dream Act" who were telling reporters they wanted to "serve" their new country by getting a free medical school degree and becoming doctors. How noble of them! Yes? Should they get a Nobel prize for wanting a high paying job?
Taking care of their electorate should be the Republican party's bottom line as of now. Not taking care of the ultra wealthy who are often cronies in Obama's back pocket anyway with lower tax rates. Not abortion. Not gay marriage. Look at what the biggest demographic who votes for you needs to protect their RIGHTS and protect them. If they could go to Iraq a world away to protect their rights, why can't they go to bat for us?
Trinacria| 11.29.12 @ 10:21AM
Nail on the head, brother.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:54PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
AKraver| 11.29.12 @ 10:45AM
right on right on
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:54PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
Trinacria| 11.29.12 @ 9:57AM
By the way, now that we're willing to dole out amnesty like condoms at a New York City middle school, anyone care to take up the cause of granting amnesty to those of us who no longer wish to contribute two thirds of our earnings to the federal and state governments (we're not tax evaders, we just have undocumented tax receipts...)?
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:55PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
Stkman| 11.29.12 @ 10:10AM
You want to get the hispanic vote? Simple, talk the those of hispanic descent in this country like the Americans they are, and do it in San Antonio.
If you've never been to San Antonio, then you may no that some of the most patriotic Americans you will ever meet are Tejanos. Yes, they are of Mexican and Spanish descent, but they are Americans first. They understand more than anyone how much illegal immigration hurts them. If you quit treating hispanics differently they will feel more included. Instead of treating them like someone who always needs to be pandered to, why not just treat them equally. Of course it won't happen, Republican leadership is nothing but liars and out for the rich and wants illegal immigrants so they can keep wages artificially low for their supporters.
Republicans will continue to keep conservatives from winning elections because the Republican party is not conservative. It's become as traitorous to the American people as the Democratic party is.
PolishKnight| 11.29.12 @ 10:20AM
Agreed. My foreign born wife finds it amusing that conservative managers and business owners in the states treat their people like dirt. She says this is common sense in other countries that value their national self-interests. You don't have to be discriminatory or even hateful, but charity begins (doesn't end!) at home.
So Republicans shaft over working class whites and hires Mexicans to do construction and yard work. Then when the Mexicans want welfare dollars, they refuse to raise taxes on themselves because, hey, shouldn't working class whites pick up that tab too?
F' 'em. In Mexico, they kidnap the children of the wealthy and cut off an ear with a bowie knife and send it to them as a present until the ransom is paid and then they have a 50/50 chance of getting their children back alive. If that's the capitalist "free market" paradise they want, let 'em have it. Are the Federales hiring?
Paul A'Barge | 11.29.12 @ 12:06PM
Are you aware of who the mayor of San Antonio is?
Because while I agree with you (about Tejanos) and while I would submit that Tejanos are much more independent than Hispanics, you really do need to look at the political structure and class of San Antonio. Hint: it does not bear out what you are trying to say.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 12:39PM
That is true, Stkman, the Tejanos are overwhelmingly patriotic, so much so that Mexicans in California refer to them as race traitors.
C. Vernon Crisler | 11.29.12 @ 10:25AM
Gawd, enough of this "reaching out" to Hispanics.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 1:33PM
Don't worry Crisler, you don't have to reach out to the real Hispanics, those of Cuban descent. You know, the descendants of Celtiberians (not the ancient and thus extinct Iberians).
C. Vernon Crisler | 11.29.12 @ 4:31PM
Go away, lunatic.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 8:21PM
Go screw yourself you hypocrite piece of shit. You don't have the balls to back up what you've previously written, because it's nothing more than lies.
C. Vernon Crisler | 11.29.12 @ 9:21PM
Lunatic, go back to your asylum.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 8:24PM
I guess it hurts when someone points out your ignorance. I'm not going away. I'll be right here and will expose your lies and ignorance every chance I get.
C. Vernon Crisler | 11.29.12 @ 9:20PM
We encourage readers to share and discuss their thoughtful and relevant comments about this Spectator article. Comments are routinely monitored and will be deleted if profane, bigoted, or grossly impolite. Please be respectful. (And don't feed the trolls!) Thank you.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 9:30PM
You may call me a lunatic, I don't care, but I do have a long memory. Not long ago you wrote that it was the Russian winter that stopped the Germans in Russia. Don't deny it; you wrote it. It was actually Hitler's meddling that caused the Russian winter to affect the German advance on Moscow. To wit: stopping the advance of Army Group Center following the fall of Smolensk and Bryansk, on the central road to Moscow, then defended by less than 100,000 Soviet troops. Add to that the diversion of resources from the German central front to the south, to aid in the encirclement and capture of the Ukrainian capital of Kiev, as part of what Hitler called "Economic War." Operation Typhoon thus delayed, the fall rains, which the Russians called Rasputiza, were by then making quagmire of the Russian country roads, which in turn made resupply of the front line elements of the German Army extremely difficult. This coupled with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, allowed Stavka, the Russian High Command to bring forty, winter-equipped divisions stationed in Siberia to the defense of Moscow and then the counter attack which drove the Germans back from the gates of Moscow. It didn't matter, following the spring thaw of 1942, the German Army regained operational initiative, including the drive towards the Caucasus, the envelopment and siege of Stalingrad, and the reduction and capture of Sevastopol in the Crimea in the summer of 1942. Cont'd.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 9:51PM
You execrable hypocrite, and defeatist loser. You call me a lunatic when I call out your ignorant posting, which you don't have the courage nor integrity to acknowledge. And then cite the BS disclaimer. Did you read the post above? Do it, you might learn something. That way you'll be able to fool those who read any of your further postings on the matter, should you not be able to contain your dire urges to chime in about matters you don't anything about. By the way that which I wrote above, I did from memory, from Russian teachers, no less, while a young lad of ten in my native Cuba.
I, for one, will not forget your previous, incessant rants against Romney, only to subsequently proclaim for everyone to see what a great feat you had just accomplished by voting for the man, though not before letting us know you might go independent. I tell you what, why don't you just do that, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
C. Vernon Crisler | 11.30.12 @ 9:19AM
I rest my case: back to the meds for you....
JmsA| 11.30.12 @ 2:50PM
Projecting again, I see.
RCV| 12.2.12 @ 3:56PM
The Cuban-American vote went 48% for Obama in 2012, a dramatic rise from past elections. The old fixation on Castro is waning, and the GOP will have to work as hard for their votes as for other Hispanics.
Stkman| 11.29.12 @ 10:30AM
Who owns the car dealerships? Who owns the rental property? Who owns the local appliance store? Who owns the grocery store? Republicans do, and they will do anything to allow the illegals to stay because illegals always pay in cash.
Who would be the biggest financial losers if we made the illegals leave? Republicans. Who would be the second biggest fianancial ;oser if we made the illegals leave? Every taxing entity in the country thats who. The same taxing entities that make us pay for the free health care, schooling and incarceration cost of illegals. Who would be the biggest financial winners if we made the illegals leave? Lower class and middle class American citizens. Now can we finally agree that both parties are traitorous to this country? One party for the power of the votes they want, democrats, and another for the income they make off the illegals, the republicans.
Time for a third party!!!!!
PolishKnight| 11.29.12 @ 11:20AM
There was a nationalwide protest by some Hispanic race group to boycott local businesses to demonstrate the value of the Hispanic bloc buying power.
Stores saw shoplifting rates plummet.
But yeah, the sleazy stores that take advantage of the working class love Hispanics such as Aarons or Rent-A-Center that advertise they can own a 42 inch TV that retails for $500 after 24 low monthly payments of $99.00. Do the math. Trial lawyers love them too.
Derek Leaberry| 11.29.12 @ 11:18AM
Republicans don't reach out to me. In fact, Republicans like the Bushes, McCain and Graham despise people like me. So why do Hispanics need to be reached out to? Are they babies? And how can they be reached? Free pinatas on Fridays? Free tortillas on Tuesdays? While we're at it, perhaps reach out by phasing in Spanish as the language of the country, renaming Washington after Benito Juarez and disinheriting our national heritage and old stock Americans like me, my wife and my children.
The Republican elite has been warned for 20 years about the immigration of tens of millions of Latin American peasants and how a demographic revolution would destroy their party. But the Republican elite chose to hurl insults at patriots and encourage more immigration so that wages could be lowered and business profits improved. Lenin said the capitalists would sell the rope that would be used to hang them and so have the Republican big business elite sold the rope to the Democratic Party to hang them. Let the Republican elite boil in their own stew.
As an American, I will fight the Republicans who wish to surrender the country to the Third World. And if the old America has to migrate to rural hinterlands and surrender other places, then that will have to be done. History is fluid and so are the people who live it. There is nothing that guarantees that the current American nation will exist in the present form two hundred years from now. In fact, let us hope it does not.
PolishKnight| 11.29.12 @ 11:25AM
Working class whites were sold by the Republican elites that "free market" economies were necessary to help create jobs and commerce to guarantee a middle class lifestyle as compared to the lies of socialists. But the Republicans seem to be embracing a fascist style model with the left that opens up borders to allow peasants and falsely documented H1B's in to deflate wages of even middle class workers to get Republican and Democrat cronies short term profits at the expense of long term economic stability. They have their millions in a big mansion somewhere so to hell with the rest of the world. That's how it works in polluted and impovershed Asia.
So sure, if that's "free market capitalism", let it fall. Isn't that a free market expression in a way? If the barbarians storm the Bastille and kill and eat the rich, that's a "free" market, isn't it? Get some cheap bagged popcorn to watch the drama over the next 4 years.
RCV| 12.2.12 @ 3:59PM
PolishKnight: This speech could have come straight out of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle"! I'm proud of you!
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:38PM
They only reach out for my money. The last Republican who did Jack for me was Bush, by lowering my taxes. And that was about it.
My practice has grown harder and harder over the last 20 years. Damn lawyers and their power hungry idiot hands.
JayMar| 11.29.12 @ 11:22AM
Unfortunately, getting Hispanic votes is not that easy. First, let me preface my comment by telling you I am 101% American of Hispanic descent, and I know the general populace quite well. Althought I as well as most of my friends are conservative, the majority of Hispanics are not, and yet not because of what Republicans fail to do but because of ignorance and lack of knowledge of the issues at hand. Hispanics based their allegiance not on what "they can do for the country" but what the country can do for them, meaning entitlements. Am I suggesting Republicans to become neo-Democrats? NO! and a thousand times NO! The people need to be educated to recognize rhetoric vs. reality. With the country on the verge of total collapse they need to be shown that the goose will not be laying any more golden eggs, the goose is dying. I feel the majority will understand the tit is drying up and the only salvation is hard work. Many of the first generation understood this principle but they have been ensnared by the entitlement mentality created by Democrats. In my book, EDUCATION is the answer.
Who Knows?| 11.29.12 @ 11:46AM
What's that saying about teaching an old dog new tricks? Or a tiger changing stripes?
Only thing that will work to "educate" the Hispanic tribe in America will be a depression, IMHO.
Paul A'Barge | 11.29.12 @ 12:02PM
Hm, a depression will educate, will it? Let's just look at how the last Great Depression educated folks:
FDR
Yes, that's right. That Great Depression was so educational that FDR was elected 3 times and managed to shove America to the left so hard our teeth fell out.
Let's try and keep up, shall we?
CJW| 11.29.12 @ 1:10PM
Paul, worse than you think, FDR was elected four times.
You are correct. The depression led to more goverment control. The stock market crash of Sept 2008 helped Obama win. McCain was leading in the polls, or very close,until the crash.
Obama used that crash for his stimulus plan. Another economic downturn will lead to more government control because most people now lood to the feds to do "something" about every problem.
Obama wants another recesssion/depression so he can do another stimulus, and more laws to control the economy.
Derek Leaberry| 11.29.12 @ 1:12PM
However, Herbert Hoover had discredited the Republican Party.
Quartermaster| 11.29.12 @ 1:37PM
Hoover was also a liberal.
RCV| 12.2.12 @ 4:01PM
Everybody is a liberal to you, Q! LOL
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:40PM
Actually, RCV, from classical Conservative perpective, Hoover WAS a Liberal. He was also innefectual, raising taxes in the middle of a depression.
Paul A'Barge | 11.29.12 @ 12:00PM
Mr Hannaford, here is how Hispanics have voted over the last 30 years. Yes, that's right. 30 years.
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10151099215925946
--1980 Jimmy Carter, 56% Ronald Reagan, 35% +21
--1984 Walter Mondale, 61% Ronald Reagan, 37% +24
--1988 Michael Dukakis, 69% George H.W. Bush, 30% +39
--1992 Bill Clinton, 61% George H.W. Bush, 25% +36
--1996 Bill Clinton, 72% Bob Dole, 21% +51
--2000 Al Gore, 62% George W. Bush, 35% +27
--2004 John Kerry, 58% George W. Bush, 40% +18
--2008 Barack Obama, 67% John McCain, 31% +36
--2012 Barack Obama, 71% Mitt Romney, 27% +44
Latinos are Democrats in Hispanic clothing. Don't let anyone tell you
otherwise.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 12:46PM
Cuban American vote in Dade County, the largest county in Florida and where most Americans of Cuban descent reside, voted Republican as follows: 1996: 60%; 2000: 72%; 2004: 74%; 2008: 63%; 2012: 58%. (CTP/University of Miami) Get your facts straight, Mr. A'Barge. The true Hispanics, the Cubans, vote Republican. I know it bothers some, but the truth is the truth.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 12:48PM
Oh, I forgot to mention, the Cuban-Americans also voted 80+ for Reagan, twice. Let me know when you find another group that voted thus. I assure though, I won't be holding my breath.
loulou| 11.29.12 @ 1:00PM
Cubans who came here are upper and middle class. Of course they'd vote GOP.
Their children and grandchildren, however, have been indoctrinated in our government schools.
What is being sent here from Mexico, etc. is the lumpenproletariat. Mexico doesn't want them and dumps them on us.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 1:32PM
Yes, loulou, unfortunately propaganda and indoctrination, particularly the socialist kind, work. By the way, I like your quite fitting Marxist characterization, lumpenproletariat. Lumpen is what the communists called non-communist Cubans; that is when they were not referring to them as worms, which they borrowed from Hitler, who called thus those who opposed him.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 1:24PM
In 1992, Cuban-Americans in Dade County voted 70% for G.H. Bush. The non-Hispanic vote went 55% for Clinton. (Florida: The Conservative Enclave Revisited, 'Latino's in the 1992 Presidential Election, Edited by Rodolfo de la Garza and Louis DeSipio.) Obviously, although the Cuban-American vote for Republican presidential candidates has been decreasing of late, it averages still 69.6%, from 1980 through 2012.
Quartermaster| 11.29.12 @ 1:40PM
The Cubans are a massive exception to the "hispanic" rule. In addition, Mexicans, Columbians, etc. are just as hispanic as Cubans. It should also be pointed out that the kids of the original Cuban refugees are increasingly Dimocrats.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 3:50PM
Quartermaster,
No, they're not the same as Cubans. Cubans are not mestizos. The native population of Cuba, the Tainos and Siboneys were exterminated in toto by the Spanish thirty years following their arrival in Cuba, save for a small mountain enclave of 600 or so, discovered by prospectors in southeastern Cuba.
Don't argue with me, I had a double major in college in Spain, including and germane to the subject topic, Cuban/Spanish History, and did research work for my senior thesis at the archival remains of what used to be La Casa de Contratación/La Casa Y Audiencia de Indias, and El Consulado de Mercaderes (Merchantile Council), (abolished by Charles IV in 1790), in Sevilla (Seville), Spain. My findings therein, to the best of my recollection, included Census figures from La Capitania General de Cuba, including documentation reflecting the rapid decrease of the indigenous population and requests by the Spanish Governor Generals, to the Crown, to allow the importation of African slaves from Portuguese slave traders. Accordingly, though there are obviously Afro-Cubans, including mulattoes, Cuban whites, yes whites, are the sole descendants of Spaniards, who happen to be Celtiberians, owing to Germanic tribes who settle in the Iberian peninsula from 300 to 400 A.D. Spaniards immigrated to Cuba, uninterruptedly for than 450 years, until 1959. You should get your facts straight. Please refer to the continued post below.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 4:14PM
As to the younger generation of Americans of Cuban descent, they still vote more for Republican candidates than does the rest of the general U.S. population of the same age; though I readily admit, they presently vote in lesser numbers for republicans, owing to, no doubt, socialist education and indoctrination in American schools.
I know that to most of you we're nothing more than a bunch of spics, no matter how we vote. You offered unfounded, erroneous generalities; I argue with facts. And in case you doubt it, yes, I've noticed how you and others rejoice at the fact that more younger Americans of Cuban descent just voted for Obama, absolving you from having to admit that the Cuban spics think like you, at least politically.
Bob K| 11.29.12 @ 8:07PM
JmsA,
On that note, Fulgencio Batista was generally thought to have been part black. Both of his parents were alleged to be mulatto.
How many blacks have real political power in Cuba today? 70% of Cuban are black or of mixed race but the Republican party in Florida only shows us the white ones. Now, are they REALLY hispanic? think about it.
As we all know Batista was overthrown by Fidel Castro, a 1st generation Cuban of European Spanish descent whose father was from the province of Galicia.
Of course, that also makes Castro "hispanic" although in reality he should be classified as a white caucasian from Europe.
None of these so called "hispanics" who share a common heritage similar to Castro's should be able to qualify for Affirmative Action simply based on their surnames but as we know, they all do. You can see them daily, filling quotas as reporters, Anchormen and Anchorwomen on TV. You don't see many indigenous american people with hispanic names there. Remember Gerry Rivers? He is now Geraldo Rivera! These so called "hispanics" go to the head of the line when seeking jobs, or promotions or applying to college.
That should explain to you why the new generation of Cubans in Florida is voting Democrat. It pays them well to do so. They go to the head of the line.
Santiago| 11.29.12 @ 4:10PM
People's life experiences shape their world views. Cubans' were obviously shaped by their country's recent political history. But that doesn't mean that there are no liberal Cubans, or conservative Mexicans. In fact I worked at a bakery in California with a Mexican lady (named María of course) who was one of the most generous persons I have ever met, and also extremely conservative on just about every issue (and she typically voted Republican). There's infinite variety out there my friend.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 4:23PM
I never said that there aren't exceptions, but the figures don't lie. Mexicans, Salvadorans, etc., etc., vote democrat as a rule. Moreover, I have pointed out in the past, including in this site, that Mexicansare extremely socially conservative. The problem is that once the democrat spin machine, including the educational system gets a hold of them, they are easily converted. This is in part due to irredentist indoctrination, not only here in the U.S., but also in their native Mexico. They believe that California, Texas, New Mexico, etc., is rightfully theirs, and it was stolen from them. I've tried to explain to them that California and the rest of the Southwest U.S. were part of Spanish New Spain, any rights to which Mexico abrogated as they gained independence from the Spanish Crown in 1821, but they just simply insist that it is part of Mexico. I doubt they will convinced otherwise any time soon.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 6:03PM
Yes, there were and there are Cuban liberals. The ones living in the U.S., though clearly not all, are mostly conservative, and they vote like it--much to the discomfort of many on both sides of the political aisle, including quite a few who commenting on this very site.
JD| 11.29.12 @ 12:29PM
Leave divisive politics to the Democrats. The only group we should be "targeting" is "people."
Santiago| 11.29.12 @ 4:39PM
Amen.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:56PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
loulou| 11.29.12 @ 12:57PM
The Hispanics want freebies. Free citizenship, free food, free phones, free gas, free housing, free everything. Capiche? The new Hispanic voters will vote for big government every time.
Now get out of here.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 3:13PM
Are you using my Capiches, now?
loulou| 11.29.12 @ 9:05PM
Yes. Do you mind?
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:43PM
Isn't it "Capisce?" Love ya, Ock.
Santiago| 11.29.12 @ 4:06PM
Your stereotyping is grating. "Hispanic" is an umbrella term that can refer to people from a lot of different countries. People, including Hispanics, have had different past experiences, whether in their home country or this one, that shape their worldviews. They tend to be like many humans: more preoccupied with their own day to day lives and not attuned to constant schemes and lies of politicians to get their votes, since many people only "tune in" when it's election time and are otherwise ignorant. It's a condition that tends to affect all races and doesn't discriminate (sadly). We just have to educate and keep up the good fight.
Joe D.| 11.29.12 @ 4:49PM
We don't need to give the law breakers more reason to come here and break our laws. The fact that they have not been thrown out is compassion and understanding. We don't need them. I want, like my wife, the ones who came legally and resent those who did not.
TLP| 11.29.12 @ 5:56PM
Contest at Wednesday's - "The Honourable Backup".
Read the New Rules.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 5:56PM
Hispanic” is the loose English translation of Hispano or Hispanico, meaning Spanish, not Iberoamericanos or Hispanoamericanos. It specifically derives from Hispania, a Phoenician denomination adopted by the Romans upon the conquest and pacification of ancient Spain, following the siege and reduction of the last Celtiberian redoubt, Numantium, by Scipio Aemilianus in 134 B.C. It's not the same. “Hispanic” is an (ignorant) construct created by the democrats during the Carter administration to include anyone that spoke Spanish, while excluding ethnicity. It has also been used to hide the plain truth, the Mexican invasion and "Reconquista" of the Southwest United States. Now, don’t get me wrong: I’m not so ignorant to believe that all Mexicans coming to the U.S. have such goals or strive to achieve such an end. I know they come to work and make life better for their families. The problem I have is that they’re breaking the law and violating American sovereignty. I'm not a Hispanic. I'm a Cuban-born American citizen, whose ancestors, as are those of most Cubans, are Spanish, Hispano, or Hispanico, meaning directly/solely Spanish. And I could care less about Merriam-Webster’s erroneous characterization of it. I also could care less that you find my comments grating. I'm not better or worse than anyone else; I'm different, and I'm also an independent thinker. I refuse to be place and maintained in an ideological box, particularly one I detest.
Bob K| 11.29.12 @ 8:36PM
I'm sorry, but the current definition of "hispanic" is the one that has taken over. Whether you like it or not, if your surname is Spanish you are hispanic and you are defined by it. It is now part of what the government calls "diversity" and is necessary if we expect governmental programs which include policies like "Affirmative Action" to work.
".... the history of ideas (indeed, of all human thought) is inseparable from the history of words." John Lukacs. "DEMOCRACY AND POPULISM Fear and Hatred." p. 117 Yale University Press. 2005
Ironically, this quote is from his essay on the {'Misuse and Misreading of "Fascism." '}
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 11:06PM
While I understand about the present use and context of the term Hispanic, I grew up with it in the context which I have previously and extensively indicated, not only in Cuba, but in Spain, where I lived while young, as well as completed the latter portion of my undergraduate studies. From what I understand, most "Hispanics" prefer referring to themselves as Latinos. Your quote above is quite interesting, and no doubt, given current circumstances, quite applicable.
I don't know anything about Affirmative Action, as I never applied for it, and actually worked my way through college. I was also thrice hauled in front of so called Academic Advisory Boards in College for my unrelenting disagreement with attempts by leftist professors to indoctrinate me. Consequently, and through the kindness of the Spanish Catholic Church, I ended up completing my undergraduate and some post-graduate work in Europe. This resulted from my father, a physician and director general of the biggest hospital in Cuba, among other posts, helping several Spanish priests, as well as others, obtain asylum in various embassies during the early days of the so called Cuban revolution.
I cannot refute your assertion that younger Cuban-Americans are increasingly voting democrat. I simply don't know, but I suspect educational indoctrination and peer pressure may have something to do with it. Thanks for your comments, and best regards.
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:51PM
JmsA: the more I read of you, the more I like you. G-d Bless.
JmsA| 11.30.12 @ 2:38PM
BK, I just ran across this. I believe you may find it interesting:
http://news.sfppr.org/2012/11/.....an-vote-2/
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:48PM
JmsA: I paid Out of State Tuition for medical school in Texas as a natural born US Citizen, 1984-1988. I adopted a Mestizo and a Mayan child from Guatemala. I am with you, Sir. Concur and Agree.
Now, I'm going to ask you a favor, which I may have to do a couple of times, as things do not always flow linearly. Where do I find someone to contact to get my kids hooked into an organization which can review their Mayan heritage with them in the States. Do you know? (I'm not interested in connecting with La Raza; I have an interest in getting them educated as to background and appropriate heritage data) My thanks in advance, sir.
ElGordo| 11.29.12 @ 10:22PM
Romney could've won FL with Rubio.
For 2016, the winning ticket could be Rubio & Gov. Susana Martinez.
And attack the Dems for killing 250 Mexicans in Fast & Furious. It's what Romney should've done.
JmsA| 11.29.12 @ 11:26PM
I could be wrong, but I have spoken with, mostly through my med-legal work (and no Occam, I don't deal with malpractice), several Mexicans and Mexican-Americans, who did not seem to0 keen about Fast and Furious from an electoral point of view. That said, they readily expressed their empathy for those so affected.
As for Rubio, I don't think he would have helped much, given that most Puerto Ricans as well as other Hispanics in Florida do not readily identify with Cubans for several reasons, but mostly because of those of a socioeconomic nature, as well as immigration, i.e., the perceived unfairness stemming from the Cuban Adjustment Act.
Now, regarding Governor Martinez, you could have something there, or a twofer as it were, a Hispanic woman.
In my opinion though, Republicans have to not only field a younger candidate, but also someone that offers a clear policy contrast from the democrats, including eloquently expressing conservative, constitutional values. They also have to come up with a new operational campaign paradigm, including not hiring any of the selfish losers that ran the most recent campaigns.
Occam's Tool| 12.2.12 @ 10:49PM
JmsA: I don't always bite.
I think Gov. Martinez has a bright future.
Ronsch| 11.30.12 @ 12:54PM
Three days ago Mark Levin had on his show a breakdown of exactly why pandering to the Hispanic vote would have made exactly 0 difference in the 2012 election. Essentially, it was based on election polls (yes, I know, ya' just cannot trust them...lol), values attributed to Hispanics and values based on their voting of the issues. The argument being made was that Hispanic voters should by tradition be Conservative or at least republican voters. They are hard working, family oriented, church going Catholics. Sounds like a built-in conservative base, right? Well Dr. Levin showed that contrary to that, Hispanics in polls and surveys actually support abortion, largesse provided by the .gov, and general amnesty for illegal immigrants. In calculating the numbers, the percentage of votes gained by republicans would still have been less than the total overall votes that NerObama received.
Therefore, surrendering the Conservative principles for the sake of a few more votes would have no effect.
Cynical Observer| 11.30.12 @ 3:26PM
"Many Hispanics were skeptical, worried that once the fence was completed, the rest of the discussion would not take place. Such is the state of trust."
Give me a break. How about "many Americans are concerned that once the amnesty is done, nothing will be done about the border." Because, you know, that's what happened last time.