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Loose Canons
Fiscal Cliff Diving
Congress looks for a solution — or at least the appearance of one — to a problem it created.
(Page 2 of 2)
Any increase in federal spending would be simply bizarre in any fiscal cliff deal. For that reason alone we should expect it to happen. And the dealmaking is likely to get a lot worse.
The vultures are already circling. One example already leaked is that some are advocating an increase to the federal gasoline tax. For every one of these vulture tax initiatives that is reported, there will be thirty we don’t hear about until after the deal is made.
The outlines of a fiscal cliff deal are easy to forecast, though the details are not. Obama is determined to raise taxes on the rich, and he will probably succeed. His success will be attributable to the urgency that Republicans helped build into the earlier legislation. If they hadn’t agreed to the last “if-then” deal in 2011, and hadn’t agreed to the automatic nature of the tax hikes in January, they might have avoided this mess. But now they have little leverage: Obama is newly reelected and the calendar is inexorably moving toward January.
Middle class taxes will rise as well, but will be hidden under various disguises such as the Obamacare taxes, dividend taxes, and such. To let the Republicans save face, the Dems will agree that it’ll all be stuffed into another pillow sack “if-then” deal.
The Republicans will agree to some tax hikes now in return for entitlement reforms that won’t take effect for years to come. The unions — who are demanding no change in entitlement programs — will feign outrage at one part of the deal that pretends to make future cuts knowing well that the Dems will not let them happen. And the entitlement program reductions — maybe in the form of “means testing” or indexing to lower rates — will be put off for five or ten years.
The Republicans will give up more than they should. “What else can we do?” they’ll wail. Actually, a lot can be done if they’re willing to take the risks that come from failing to make a deal. It’s a risk they have to take.
First and foremost, they have to refuse another “if-then” deal. Anything they agree to — which shouldn’t include any tax hikes or the expiration of any prior tax cuts — must all take effect now. To the extent that future cuts to entitlement programs and any other government spending are included, these cuts should have to take effect on a date certain. And — to prevent any Democratic backpedaling — the legislation should provide that any modifications to the entitlement reductions would have to survive a supermajority vote in both the House and the Senate. By so doing they can make any future action to cancel the cuts very hard to do.
The flip side of this is the sequestration problem. Even if the fiscal cliff deal changes sequestration for 2013, there are still nine more years of sequestration coming — automatically — unless the sequestration mechanism is changed. The Dems don’t want to stop sequestration on defense, but they do want to stop it on domestic programs. This isn’t going to be easy, but the Republicans need to repeal the whole sequestration mechanism so we don’t have to do this again and again.
And, lastly, the House Republicans need to keep in mind that come March, they’ll have to face another debt ceiling increase. They will have a lot more leverage then than they do now, so it’s important to not give in. It’ll be easier to force real spending cuts in the next round if — and only if — they are willing to risk a government shutdown. That’s the only real leverage they have, and — to date — they’ve been unwilling to take the risk.
About the Author
Jed Babbin served as a Deputy Undersecretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush. He is the author of several bestselling books including Inside the Asylum and In the Words of Our Enemies. You can follow him on Twitter @jedbabbin.
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benny havens| 11.26.12 @ 7:02AM
And there sits Manny, Moe and Jack, nothing has changed.
Jack in Wi| 11.26.12 @ 7:28AM
Let the sequestration happen like it is written. The military is massively overfunded. If people want the war and welfare state let them pay for it. Let the country fall over the cliff then maybe we can do what has to be done. That is get rid of foreign aid, wars overseas, get rid of corporate welfare, and endless entilements. The sequestration is the best we are going to get from Obama. To hell with negotiations by people like Boenher and McConnell. We need a real opposition, not more Bush Me-tooism.
Aristocat| 11.26.12 @ 8:00AM
Obama wants to set up the Republicans to take any blame for cuts...He also is pitting the old against the young by cutting Medicare by $1 Trillion to fund Obamacare....
Boehner does not have the courage to oppose him.
We're in for a long four years.
Von Mises Jr| 11.26.12 @ 8:45AM
I met Peter Schiff before the election and asked him what would happen to the price of gold if Romney was elected and we returned to the gold standard. He said it didn't matter who was elected, we are heading for a collapse.
I just finished his new book "The Real Crash." Aristocat has it right that Medicare was robbed by $716B that means less care for seniors and much lower reimbursements to doctors. Even if ObamaCare fails with 16 states already refuse to set up Exchanges and 5 more demanding federal funds. But here is some other problem he outlines in his book:
- Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and already broke. They have $2.5T in IOU's and ran a $96B loss in 2011. He equates this to writing you a $1M check and claiming to be a millionaire. At the same time, I equate the deficit in the plan as collecting food stamps at the same time.
- The money supply was increased by Ben "The Bank" Bernanke from $3T to $9T in five years and now Benny is buying $40B of Sub-prime garbage each month.
- The debt is being financed at near zero interest rates. When Greece was finally deemed unlikely to repay by its creditors, rates rose to 30% ranges. Even at 5-10% ranges, our interest on the debt will devour almost all tax revenues.
R Martin| 11.26.12 @ 12:51PM
So, what does Mr. Schiff think about the price of gold?
Von Mises Jr| 11.26.12 @ 2:12PM
A local commercial cites Schiff and a couple other Wall St. guys calling for a double. It doubled in the last four years from $71 on the GLD to $169.50. He would not make a prediction in person. He just said buy.
There are several ways to buy it from physical, to the IAU that allegedly stores the gold, to the GLD or gold miners. You can also buy silver that gives some diversification. Owning both and perhaps in a couple ways is my bet.
Von Mises Jr| 11.26.12 @ 8:46AM
People voted for this. Now they will just need to find out what a depression is like. There is nothing Congress can do since taxing the crap out of the top earners will not pay the dinner check while they hide money under the mattress anyway.
If they let taxes rise on all that pay federal taxes, people's disposable income will be $500 to almost $1K more per month starting January for incomes between $75K and $125K AGI.
Welcome to ObamaLand.
Jacob McCandles| 11.26.12 @ 1:44PM
Von M, I have been watching Schiff also. What I find amazing is the fact that his logic is sound and simple. It is not rocket science, it is very simple the way he presents the information. I have not heard one economist refute his assertions: the dollar must collapse, the economy must collapse, our standard of living must go down. So, all this talk is just politicians trying to slow down the problem to save their butts and put it on the next guy.
Politicians talk about reducing the deficit. That means the national debt goes up, even if by some miracle we do actually reduce spending and/or increase revenues. Deficit reduction is not what we need. We need debt reduction. This is not complicated, why don't we hear about this, even on Fox News? I would like to hear just one politician get on the fiscal gap of 222 trillion and keep banging the point home. 16 trillion is small change compared to that, and we are not even close to addressing the 16 trillion. Best case scenario (although unlikely) we slow the growth of the debt. Is there any silver lining here, other than the fact that Obama voters will get what they voted for?
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 8:16AM
"Let the country fall over the cliff then maybe we can do what has to be done."
This is just what they want, you fool. And who is this 'them' that should pay for it? It all of us whether we like it or want it, idiot as they are not asking us to voluntarily support all their spending.
When has a society ever reformed itself after it has fallen over the cliff? The cliff is used to usher in more control and justification of tyranny, jerk wad. People are more than willing to sacrifice freedom for security.
Why do you post here? I am surprised you did not mention the Jews in your rather predictable diatribe.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 12:05PM
You know, Simon, I respect you and agree with you pretty much always.
But we are already over the real cliff - not the phony "fiscal cliff." We all know exactly what's going to happen there (as if it matters anymore): Republicans will give Obama what he wants.
I tend to agree at this point that the GOP should just rubber-stamp every single thing Obama wants to do - why not? We're going to lose and/or cave in on every single major issue anyway. After 25 year s of this, it's about time to call a spade a spade.
Here is a partial list of what various "conservatives" have already admonished us to do just since we got our asses handed to us in the election: Embrace illegal immigration, bow down to the unions, continue the student loan grift, index minimum wage to keep pace with inflation, continue to pursue green energy, raise taxes on the evil rich and pander as much as possible to the rabble.
We are already de facto doormats for the Dems. But they are still able to beat up on us because of various pockets of remaining conservatives who vociferously object to the GOP brand of progressivism.
I say let's give them everything they want enthusiastically. Then, when it all comes crashing down, they'll have no excuses.
And it's going to collapse anyway. Might as well put the blame where it belongs - nihilistic progressive policies.
George S| 11.26.12 @ 1:02PM
We went over the cliff in June. That's when our national debt finally exceeded our gross domestic product. We owe more than we are worth.
Now we are in the territory of the debt cutting into our held assets and wealth. And just like Greece and Spain, the wealthy will be pulling out leaving the Treasury with less held deposits in the Federal Reserve. Without those deposits, we cannot generate debt to auction off. Nobody will buy them.
Then what?
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 1:25PM
Not only that, but when interest rates rise, from their artificial free-money current rates, the death spiral will turn into a splat.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 1:15PM
Grzmlyk,
Yes, we have already gone over the cliff, but we are still falling and have yet to actually hit the bottom and begin feeling the real pain from the implosion and its consequences. What I object to is the idea, that somehow not putting up a fight and allowing it is somehow going to wake the American people up and facilitate some kind of reform movement. History has not show this to be the case. The Left wants this, planned for it, and will be there to never let a crisis like that to go to waste. Tyranny will be the outcome and people will vote it in. I also know that, notice I said 'know' that the idea that the republicans will force the Left to own it will never be realized. In fact, the opposite will come true. How do I know this? Because I have a whole century of examples where this has exactly happened including the last 10 years ( housing crisis and subsequent recession and financial crisis). Let us not fool ourselves.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 1:24PM
Does this mean that I believe we are helpless?
No. First do not expect the GOP and the Republican Progressives in DC to save you or wait for the next election cycle. This is has to be abandoned. Either take the Party over or let it die, not the nation. The question is, are we capable of keeping this Free Republic and taking action to resist on our state and local levels against this federal tyranny. It is always been the question. Our founding fathers knew this and they knew that maintaining a free Republic requires vigorous activism and resistance not talk, elections, and depending on politicians to fix it all. Why do you think that they created a divide governmental structure? Because they KNEW that we would be exactly in this spot we are in very quickly as it is inevitable given human nature and the nature of power.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 1:35PM
Where is our occupy movement? Where is our activist and why are they not in jail as martyrs. Only one Thomas Paine in a millennium? Is that it? Once again, why are we not taking back our school systems, fighting for our culture, and over running this media with our own narratives and our own media structure? This is what needs to be done, and this makes the largest difference. The Tea party must enlarge itself and I am not talking about numbers. I am talking about it becoming more than just a movement to elect politicians. It needs to be an educational, resistance, and cultural movement that effectively counters and challenges. We need to go into every community and educate them and organize them, politics has always been local. It all starts there. we must stop preaching to the choir and get our hands dirty.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 1:42PM
Of course, this is not immediately gratifying. It requires the long haul and it requires many of us to become activist and agitators for liberty and freedom just as they did 250 years ago in Franklin's time. Some of this has already begun. As the Left has actively worked to corrupt the election process, we must counter this to insure that our votes are not disenfranchised. So, there are specific objectives that must be included in an effective resistance movement that will bring about the necessary change and reform we are seeking. We can not work on everything at once.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 1:48PM
Our greatest strength as conservatives and Americans is the fact that we pay the taxes and drive the economic engine of this nation. Those who voted for the Fraud are consumers and dependents, please remember that. That is the way out of all of this.
We must use that economic power to starve the Left and the progressive institution that are enslaving us. This is the only way out as it was in the last revolution whereby they resisted taxation and boycotted British products.
Cancel your TV cable. Forty million cancellations would bring the media machine to its knees. Switch the money to alternative mediums and start our own.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 1:52PM
Just saw your follow-up post. I don't disagree theoretically - we should do all that. But the reality is that we didn't, and now it's too late.
I understand the impulse to say there's something worth fighting for, but it no longer exists. Humpty Dumpty has already fallen off the wall. America earned its fate, just as Europe earned the demise it has begun to experience. No point in closing the barn door once all the horses are gone.
Also, the sad truth is that the vast majority of Americans would read what you just wrote and say you were crazy or stupid or racist or an ideologue. In another year or so, such writing will probably get you imprisoned.
THAT is the problem. You and I are outliers. The conservative point of view is no longer relevant. We've lost this country because we gave it away to envy, greed, sloth and lust. Most Americans WANT the dictatorship. What do they care as long as Uncle Sam keeps doling out the bread and circuses?
That is what nobody on our side seems to want to admit. This is EXACTLY what most people want. The majority have voted for serfdom; since that can't survive, they have, in effect, voted for the suicide of America.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 2:16PM
Roughly half the nation wants the dictatorship, the other half does not and made that clear. Most of these idiots are ignorant and do not have a clue and really do not want a tyranny, they want security and have been lulled into it and convinced it is a benevolent Democratic party that is helping them. It is a happy face fascism and it is deceiving. It is this other half where the hope lies as it always has. Hell, we were in the same position in 1776. Half the population wanted to remain actual serfs not theoretical ones. Rise up. It is not too late. No, the vast majority would not.
Half of it perhaps, most likely half of that half.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 4:08PM
Here's where we differ:
1) I think the collapse has ALREADY HAPPENED. i don't know how much clearer I can be. We just haven't landed yet. From your writing, it's obvious you think we can turn it around. I'd like to know how - fiscal reality means it is NOT POSSIBLE to turn this around.
2) Cultural reality says we will continue to move LEFTWARD - there will be no resurgence of conservatism.
3) I don't know where you get your percentages - I believe we're more a 70/30 country (70% liberal, 30% conservative). And we ALREADY HAVE ceded this country to liberalism. Again, you're talking about closing the barn door. Why? the horse is long gone.
4) It is NOT just the blue states who take federal money - the red states take a LOT of federal money as well. GLADLY. The fact is that ostensible conservatives support the welfare state - they just like to hear themselves rail against it. But when push comes to shove, as a country, we have decided we want a Western-European-style socialism.
And we're about to move much further LEFT before we move right. And conservatives will continue to allow it because we are now the minority.
5) The go-along-to-get-along corporations are now playing the crony end-game - vying to be granted absolution if they climb into bed with the tyranny. Just as the big corporations in Germany and Italy did in the run-up to WWII.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 4:09PM
6) I'm not looking for collapse to save us - I'm saying that we are GOING to collapse, and perhaps after that we will figure out what went wrong - but I wouldn't hold my breath. The problem here is that human nature has run roughshod over the Constitution and it will continue to do so.
7) You and I believe socialism has failed. But in case you haven't noticed, we just elected Obama again - France just elected a socialist. Greece refuses to accept reality. In other words, the PEOPLE do not think socialism has failed and will continue to strangle the golden goose until it is dead - which is the collapse to which I refer.
When interest rates eventually rise - as they must - you will see rubble and riots. Nothing is written in stone - eventually even the beltway will pass into memory just as Rome did. Problem is, you have to kill the host organism in order to kill the parasite. That’s going to happen.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 11:15PM
Actually, I think we agree on more than you think we do. I am not saying we have not collapsed and it will be a breeze to turn this around. I get my stats from various studies, polls, and data about the demographics relative to elections. Most of this is suspect as they now control these as well so I often attempt to get more accurate information from the Heritage Foundation and other sources such as marketing studies. I have a degree in Marketing among others, six in total. It is odd that you believe there are 70 percent of them and only thirty of us. As a former liberal, this is exactly what they believe in reverse. In fact, I ran into a liberal just yesterday lamenting about how conservative the region was when in fact they are more than well represented.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 11:15PM
America is more divided than you think. This is why they have spent so much of their time taking over the education system and the media and have attempted to successfully corrupt and indoctrinate the young. It will be 70 percent some day when our generation passes but were not there yet. Yes, I am still optimistic and do not think it is too late because it is divided. But the gap is closing quickly and we need to take action and leadership now and that is not going to come from the beltway but outside of it.
You did not answer my question. How are we conservatives different? If it were all about numbers the Left would have been squashed long ago.
All I am saying is it comes down to us. The other half needs to stop whining and get down to raising hell and meaning business. Some of this has already begun. We are just as capable of outsmarting them. Believe me these people are not as smart as you think they are and you give them credit in being. Capitalism and free enterprise is a very resilient and gigantically powerful, this is why they have been able to play this game so long and strangle the goose as you say. I firmly believe that we CAN climb out of the hole if the will is there. We can start fighting and learning from our failures and mistakes or we can hand them the keys. The potential of that half of the nation is limitless and it CAN assert itself even if it means civil war.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 11:28PM
"And we're about to move much further LEFT before we move right. And conservatives will continue to allow it because we are now the minority."
They were the minority at the start of the last century. That did not stop them. Sorry, we are not a minority as they were at the beginning of the twentieth century. The issue is we have no representation but rather a colluding bunch of losers that want to be the minority and will do anything to make damn sure a conservative representing the other half and its values does not get into office at the federal level.
If there is absolutely no hope and it is too late then why are we out here posting?
If that is the case I suggest we could do more productive things with the time left for all of us then whine about just how screwed we are...no offense to you. I began this thread of mine as a reaction to jackboot and others like him who continually call for the Ron Paul's as their saviors and then when he fails to get elected they turncoat, sit in there holes, and roll up the white flags.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 2:28PM
When the fraud was elected in 2008, they cheated but actually did win. If you remember, he sounded like a conservative and pretended to be center politician. Most of these people are not leftist but useful ignorant idiots that do not have any idea as to what he has been up to the last four years. They believe what the media tells them. You need to get out of Vermont and talk with some real people not educated liberal snobs you have been hanging out with. This last election they cheated massively and actual lost. This is what most of us refuse to see and are unwilling to confront.
A few people went out before the election and interviewed people on the street, Obama voters and told them what exactly has happened in the last 4 years and attributed it to Republicans. They then asked them what do you think about those policies and actions. They all detested them and the conservatives that they expected did these things, they were then told that the interviewer lied and these actions were actually Obama's actions. They were stunned and speechless and looked very worried.
Most people are brainwashed, ignorant, and uninformed. Inform them.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 4:19PM
I'm sorry, Simon, I've BEEN around. I've lived all over the country - true, in liberal enclaves - i.e, big cities (except for Vermont). I've lived in Chicago, New York, Boston and San Francisco. No conservatives to be found.
Now you may say yes, but those are liberal cities. To which is say you are makingmy point. ALL cities are liberal with virtually no exceptions.
This is where I think so many conservatives get it wrong - they cling to the illusion that most people aren't liberals. They ARE. Perhaps you should go out to some major urban areas - go to New York, Chicago, L.A., Detroit, Boston, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Seattle, Lincoln, Nebraska, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Orlando, Minneapolis, Ann Arbor - they're all liberal.
I'm not familiar with the interviews you speak of - but I agree with you that the people are useful idiots - you HAVE to be an idiot to believe in the socialist agenda. That's the point - people are credulous morons, and half of them are liberals because it's cool; not deeper reason than that. Many believe they can be the biggest assholes in the world, but wa long as they embrace liberal "compassion," they have a get-out-of-jail-free card. There are WAY more of them than there are of us.
Occam's Tool| 11.26.12 @ 5:49PM
Mr. G: Chicago, LA.Visited NYC, SF, LV. Visit the Twins often enough. Hell, even Fargo is infested with them. Yup. They stink of Liberalism.
Had to listen to my idiot parents defend "Occupyist" assholes a year ago. They couldn't explain pooping on police cars and rape villages. They live in Chi. Trapped on a Cruise ship with them as it was their 50th Wedding Anniversary. Waste of my money, and they are bigger morons than they were when I was an adolescent, if that's possible (their biggest complaint about me as a teenager was that I read too much and didn't PARTY enough. I was totally focused on the 6 year med at Northwestern, and I made the waiting list. Then I got accepted to Illinois and Galveston (UTMB) despite the fact that my Liberal pre-med advisor hated my guts.). I went to Galveston because my parents were threatening to have me live at home if I went to Illinois. Assholes, assholes, assholes. Still loathe them.
Well, that's the last time for that crap. They can visit me in my small town or forget it. There's nothing in big cities I want or need, really.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 6:19PM
Wow, OT that is disturbing. Sounds like your parents never grew up - typical boomers. I always think people who support Occupy - and the rotten Keynesian edifice upon which it rests - MUST be lying. Surely they can't be that stupid. Over the weekend, I happened upon a youtube video of Robert Reich's 7 reasons conservatives are wrong, or some such crap. My jaw was on the floor. I couldn't get past about 4. Does this guy actually believe in demand side economics? Surely the only explanation is he's lying. All of it is sleight of hand to faciliate "fairness" - redistribution of wealth. And that fairness, of course, is always defined by the party in power.
I grew up in Chicago and went to the U of I in Champaign/Urbana. I was conservative then (in the arts, no less) - voted for Reagan in my first election - but I wasn't as hardened then. But the years have opened my eyes. I used to think what Bill O'Reilly bray when he's pandering most cravenly: Hey, the Dems want what we want; they just want to go about it differently.
Like hell.
I understand why cities trend toward liberalism - but, my god - when I lived in NYC during the dismal Dinkins years, I was astonished that Democrats seem actually to WANT destruction.
To this day I can't explain that except to realize they stand on their heads and think the world is upside down.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 11:42PM
There are not as many socialist as you think in these cities ...most of them do not even know what socialism is and think it has something do do with parties and being a sociable person. I lived in some of those cities you mentioned and have rubbed elbows with these liberals as one of them. Even these useful college educated idiots are just as ignorant and do not have anymore clue about what conservatives beliefs are than what socialist or liberal beliefs are. Most of them hold a lot of conservative values and do not even know it. That is precisely why it is not too late and it is not hopeless. I really was not trying to insult you but make a point. Sorry if it came off that way.
Try to imagine what it would be like for us if they actual understood socialism and liberalism like many Europeans and actually fought for it.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 1:42PM
Well, I think the "splat" is a fait accompli. If I show you a movie of somebody dropping a raw egg from a 20-story building onto a concrete slab, and I stop the movie when the egg is 12 inches away from the concrete and I ask you, "what do you think will happen next?" what would your answer be?
That egg is us. It is OVER. No amount of intervention matters at this point. To use another analogy, once the iceberg had ripped open so many watertight compartments on the Titanic, sinking was inevitable, even though the people in the ballroom didn't know anything was wrong.
As for using the state and federal governments to restore sanity, to me that is like asking David Axelrod to keep Obama in line. Every level of government is infected with this terminal virus.
I agree that conservativism will always be blamed for every failure of liberal policy, but what I'm talking about is a MASSIVE collapse - wherein society itself breaks down to a great extent.
That is, the blaming of the left's crimes on the right won't change as long as the Beltway is the Beltway - but if America's collapse is so thorough that there IS no Beltway, nor mainstream media anymore, maybe - just maybe - the survivors sifting through the rubble will say, hey - socialism didn't work - we have to organize ourselves in another way.
It's a slim reed, but it's all I've got.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 2:07PM
Why the slim reed? Why are we so different than our opposition that we can not employ the same or similar action to obtain our objectives? Really. Why?
Forty-eight percent of the voting population are somehow intellectually disabled or politically incompetent? Half the country although in the right and seeking freedom can not mobilize and resist? Our fate has to be placed in the hands of a few survivors that emerge from the rubble? There will be no rubble, my friend. There will be fascism and it will be received with a sigh of relief. There will be a return to slavery. Twenty five states have already effectively resisted for some time now. It is the blue states that are in economic trouble and they are stealing from the red. There will always be a beltway and some form of media. Short of nuclear war or civil war, no rubble, no wake up, no forcible reason to change anything and reach that conclusion. Socialism has failed, continues to fail, and still we are fighting those that seek to impose it. If socialism did not exist, and Marx was never born, there would be something else to take its place. Tyranny is the enemy and it can only be stopped in the same ways it always has been curbed.
I am not looking for a collapse to save us. The middle ages never appealed to me and I am damn well not waiting for another thirteen men to be born at the same time to put forward their lives and sacred honor to lead us out of it.
Respectfully, my conservative brother.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 2:35PM
By the way, socialism and the Left exist and feed off of ignorance not socialist soldiers and a nation that wants tyranny. They accomplish this through revising history, writing the narratives, controlling information, and appearing benevolent. A hell of a lot of effort to get and maintain power. Without this they are nothing and have no power. This is why they have to lie, because the vast majority really does not want slavery but desires freedom and knows what is right and what is wrong. This is essential truth that seems to be lost on most conservatives these days and it is the real slim reed and the narrow path out of this mess.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 4:29PM
The vast majority is fine with slavery as long as it's the other guy who's enslaved or else as long as the slavery is comfy. As long as we print money and pretend that the bread and circuses - the gravy train - can continue ad infinitum; as long as people have their iphones and their video games and their parties and their nice houses and nice cars; as long as there is wall to wall porn and self-gratification is the order of the day, they don't care who paid for it or what the larger implications are.
Before the Iraq war I was convinced by the argument that people prefer liberty. And then the war proved to me that most people do NOT prefer liberty. Most people prefer a soft enslavement. I agree that under socialism that soft enslavement inevitably becomes hard enslavement. Or it devolves into chaos and collapse, which we are witnessing in Europe. People simply won't accept that they're out of money - now they're trying to wring every last Euro out of the only half-way functional economy over there - they're enslaving Germany. When Germany balks it is over.
Also, in most previous socialist regimes, the government had to force the press to disseminate propaganda supporting the regime and lying. We have a willing press corps today that lies gleefully, willingly. Because we have all embraced a false consciousness. I'm telling you, insanity has taken hold in this country.
aware| 11.26.12 @ 5:45PM
"We kept waiting for the regime to do something so outrageous that finally our fellow citizens would wake up. But it never came. Instead the latest outrage was only a little worse than the last. The next only a little more.
If you tried to talk to friends and colleagues they would say you are seeing things not there and imagining conspiracies. So, on the one hand you were intimidated and threatened by the regime, the State, and the Party. And on the other, considered neurotic. So you just retreated into apathy and silence."
From "They Thought They Were Free....The Germans 1933-1945"
Maybe some of us will be around to answer some author's stupid ass question about "couldn't you see where this was going?" in the future. A variation on the above quote will probably be our answer too.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 6:26PM
Wow - I bought that book recently. I've only leafed through it so far, but the reason I bought it was because I read about it and the history it depicted seemed to foretell our immediate future.
The passage you excerpted pretty much says it all. It's the Boiled Frog syndrome.
Just saw a headline that the UN is trying to figure out a way to take control of the entire Internet. But move along, folks, nothing to see here; Agenda 21 is crazy talk.
aware| 11.27.12 @ 6:18AM
Actually the frog thing is a myth. The frog will jump out when the water gets hot. People on the other hand....
There is no stopping the day of reckoning for the simple reason that there is no stopping the State. It can do whatever it wants and will. Elections won't threaten it. Courts won't. Neither will "public opinion". The State owns all these and more.
And the true owners of the State are not the elected, and certainly not "the People". The "two party" system keeps you focused on one or the other so that the real agenda goes largely unnoticed no matter whether victory or defeat.
Many chest-thumppers here will be "re-educated" but those like me have no chance of that. The Rulers know it is a waste of time with us. We will be eliminated as contagions. I can see a time not too far off when this very post will be in the Prosecutor's hand as proof of my incorrigibility. I will be an "undesirable" to the Hive because I see the Hive as undesirable with the "Queen Bee" as evil incarnate.
And "conservatism" has proven to be a cap gun against a raging grizzly. It hasn't even slowed it down on its rampage. Even now it thinks it can someday control the beast that is eating it alive. It is nothing but a relief valve to diffuse the efforts of potential threats. It is like the Hebrews demanding a king of its own like the other nations. And like them, won't listen to the warnings of what this king will mean.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 11:56PM
People want liberty foremost and security when that liberty is threatened and they will trade a little liberty to get security, as security is a prerequisite for liberty and a basic survival instinct. Most do not want to be disturbed and want to be left alone. Most do not take the time to be informed, that is their biggest problem. They want the pain to end and a return to normal.
The LEFT unlike the right know this like the back of their Molotov cocktails. This is why they create chaos and seek to control communications and information. Once again, this is all about power as politics is a game for power. Tyranny is it's real name and its alias names range from monarchy to socialism and others as it has to keep reinventing itself and hiding behind lies. Expose it and it falls down. None of what is happening is new. The question is how will we respond to it, particularly those that know the truth.
Steveo| 11.26.12 @ 11:47AM
From here on, it's all just damage control with Obama wanting to patch the muffler with duct tape.
Sessions should be speaker. Boehner looks like he's ready to cry in the photo accompanying the article.
Grzmlyk| 11.26.12 @ 1:02PM
Steveo, the truth is that the Mainstream Media and its 60 million or so minions believe with all their hearts that Obama is right and just and GOOD.
Too many Americans have rejected not only conservatism and individual responsibility, but reality itself.
The truth is persona non grata among the legions of fools, crooks and morons who comprise this Brave New World.
And this is exacerbated by the many businesses large and small (including the Fortune 50 company for whom I work) that have played Go-Along-To-Get-Along for so long that any sense of conviction that exists among a large swath of producers in this country has faded like decades-old wallpaper in the hot sun.
Obama could summon many of these people to the guillotine, and not only would they cheerfully get into line, they would be humming "Kumba Ya" right up to the moment the blade separated their fool heads from their bodies.
Occam's Tool| 11.26.12 @ 5:39PM
Jack, although you are a worthless, cowardly piece of scum unfit to be around children, some of us appreciate our military for protecting us. Cutting the military is last. Cutting Welfare is FIRST.
Jack in Wi| 11.26.12 @ 11:05PM
Occam: Cutting all foreign aid is first. Then we slash the military and bring home the troops. We could defend this country for half of what we are spending. The world will be a far more peaceful place without us around stirring up trouble. There hasn't been a war worth fighting since the Revolution and that one is very debatable. Any bennefit for poor Americans is the last thing we cut in this depression. Cut all corporate welfare for the banksters and the kleptocrats first.
Simon Templar| 11.27.12 @ 12:17AM
So the world would have been a peaceful place if it were not for the bad horrible USA stirring up trouble and causing wars? My god you are an idiot beyond belief and a coward to boot. The most generous nation in history, the most open to newcomers, the most inventive and opportunity orientated, and the most merciful in war and we are the problem. The Revolution was debatable?
You really need those rights to free speech that others died for taken away from you. Such a dangerous, stupid and simple minded idiot like yourself does not deserve these rights. You are actually worse than those useful idiots in the big cities that we were discussing today.
aware| 11.27.12 @ 5:36AM
No, the "world" would be what it always has been, a festering caldron of idiocy. Which is why Washington warned us to stay out of its madness.
The idiot is you, screaming for vengeance, ready to "take away" rights(you obviously believe these rights are bequeathed by the State and can be revoked for "undesirable" beliefs), and full of hypocrisy(since you're not doing the "fighting" are you?). You are a good little Statist but are too mesmerized to even know it.
One day you Nationalists will kiss and make up with the Socialists and you can be one big happy family again under one Party. Then you'll show us a thing or two, won't you.
Simon Templar| 11.27.12 @ 10:34AM
Why Washington warned us? Perhaps, you should go back and reread Jackboot's comment. Apparently, Washington would have not participated in the Revolution itself, libertarian asshole. Apparently no war is worth fighting for including one for one own freedom. Thanks, you clarified where you will be coward, if we are ever invaded, attacked, or are freedoms are taken away. You can not even see the contradiction in your own words, moron. On one hand you say the world would be a peaceful place if it were not for the bad USA, on the other idiot, you say it is a caldron of idiocy and madness even when we are staying out of the madness. Yeah, did you notice that? So, which is it, snot nose? I am guessing a twenty something, definitely not older than 35.
So, which is it, a peaceful world or a dangerous, maddening, idiotic one?
No, those right are not bequethed by the State, jerk boy, they are inalienable and pay by the blood of patriots as the "Peaceful World" wants to take them away every chance it gets. Did you not notice the last 100 years of these rights being taken away from people of the peaceful world in their own nations by the rise of peaceful communist and an assorted cadre of real Nationalist and Statist?
Simon Templar| 11.27.12 @ 10:47AM
You need to grow up. No, treasonous assholes like yourself and jackboot do not deserve to enjoy the freedoms of this country if your not willing to defend them. Aware, how ironic for a name. Well. Unaware, the world is not a peaceful place and freedom as our REAL founding fathers, not your revisionist characters, knew this all too well and they knew it was a threat and would be a threat. Jefferson, the most isolationist, learned this the hard way. So, according to your sophisticated mind, everyone is a raging warmongering statist because they think the world is a dangerous place, they do not blame everything on the USA, they believe in a strong defense, they believe the Revolution was justifiable and necessary as some of the Wars we fought, notice some not all, idiot, and they hold the notion that there are times when our very interest and survival require defensive war and force.
Simon Templar| 11.27.12 @ 10:57AM
You are just another troll, and not much better than Alan Brooks and the rest. Just another goofy libertarian snot nose who knows it all, and walks, talks, and quacks like a liberal 6 days out of the 7 day week. It is on Friday, we get the lecture about small government and fiscal restraint with BIG helping dose of cynicism and we can do nothing but elect a libertarian or sit on our asses and wait for the apocalypse, and just maybe, just maybe people will wake up, the same people you call idiots in a world of idiocy that you are hoping will wake up. Perhaps, you are one of those idiots, ya think?
This seems to be all theoretical to you. That world that you expect to crumble will not be on TV in a film and you watching it on your brand new whatever. You, boy, will be hurting and hurting bad. It will be me and others like myself that will be organizing and fighting the Real Statist and doing the dirty work.
Simon Templar| 11.27.12 @ 11:12AM
No one can show you a thing or two as you got it all freaking figured out, correct, boy?
You should change that Aware to knee jerk libertarian.
Let me make this easy for you to understand.
When the rubble and tumble comes and we sink into the dark ages as you expect, you will be nothing, mean nothing, and will be just another fool standing in line for your bowl of state provided gruel. When your liberal and communist cousins are completely running the show, you will be mourning the days you trashed conservatives, spouted off all your BIG pronouncements, sweeping generalizations, and childish beliefs.
Enough said.
Now, it is time for you to squeak back with another load of bullshit and childish nonsense.
We are all waiting. All of us conservatives, on a conservative web magazine will be waiting with bated breath and great anticipation.
Simon Templar| 11.27.12 @ 11:14AM
That is..
No, those rights are not bequeathed by the State, jerk boy, they are inalienable and paid by the blood of patriots as the "Peaceful World" wants to take them away every chance it gets.
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 7:14AM
Nobody ever listens to me.
If these Republican A-holes had done what I told them to do, last Agust, we wouldn't be doing this Kabuki Dance - Part Deux.
I called their Offices when this whole Bait and Switch/Blame it on Republicans/Gut the Military and Medicare Scam first happened.
My advice was to let The Halfrican have what he wanted. Let him raise the Taxes on the Wealthy. Let him raise the Taxes on Small Business. Let him dig a MFing Hole to Oblivion, cause, when the Bill comes do - as it is, now - he's gonna get his way, anyway.
And, lo and behold.........He's gonna get his way, anyway.
There would be no Sequestration right now. There would be no Mandatory Decimation of our Military, and Medicare. There would have been No Campaign Issue for him.
The Sh*t woulda hit the Fan, and all of that "Splatter" would have landed squarely on him.
It's time to listen. It's time to Call His Bluff. It's time for Some Republican Leaders to stop thinking about THEIR JOBS, and start thinking about ways to turn up the Flame on the Frog in the Pot, all at once. Time to make him Feel the Heat, that he might WAKE UP, and jump out.
Before it's too late.
Do nothing. Protect our Military.
Hand him a Shovel, and let him Dig.
The Alternative is a Thousand Times Worse.
c. j. acworth| 11.26.12 @ 9:28AM
I just recieved my first shipment of freeze-dried food and have started to sample it. So far, not like mom's, but not too bad. Will buy some more each month as I find out what I like. This coming weekend I'm going to set my reloading bench back up. I haven't done much shooting the last few years and I have a ton of empty brass, powder, primers and bullets to go through.
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 11:06AM
Funny you should mention that. I have box of Freeze Dried Chow from e foods, sitting right on my desk, in front of me. And yesterday, I put a Downpayment on a Mauser 12 Guage ("That seems to be the most popular Gauge." Seinfeld).
What's coming, is as plain to see as Michelle's "Package" when she (?) wears a pair of Man Pants.
Things are about to get rough.
Jacob McCandles| 11.26.12 @ 1:59PM
I saw Red Dawn remake yesterday. Sure, it's a cheesy movie, very unrealistic, but it was good IMO (except for that GD Drake and Josh character).
So- the small group of armed citizens were able to save the nation from communism. I got a bit fired up watching people risk their lives to defend the country they love. Then-I walked out of the theater and looked at the obese, flip-flop wearing, big-gulp slurping, empty-stare, foul-mouthed fellow citizens in the mall with me. Took away my kick some butt red-blooded feeling right away.
7-08| 11.26.12 @ 2:28PM
"Mauser?" Did you mean Mossberg?
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 4:02PM
I did.
That's just what us Cool Guys call it.
Bill8472| 11.26.12 @ 4:09PM
Oh. "Cool Guys." "Mauser." Right.
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 5:48PM
Did I say Cool Guys?
I meant: Super Cool guys.
You wouldn't understand.
Louis Jenkins| 11.26.12 @ 4:21PM
Gentlemen:
Don't give your cards away. Say "I'm preparing." That's enough.
aware| 11.26.12 @ 5:23PM
Yes. And soon don't even say that.
Peppermint Tea | 11.26.12 @ 11:00AM
Remember in Debate 2 when Obama claimed he was against sequestration?
He's gotta be loving it. Decimate (1/10) the military each year for 10 years and there will only be enough to keep the generals' offices fully staffed with "broad" military outreach programs.
And renege on the domestic cuts. And transfer payments are immune.
Ben Bernanke can finance this road to serfdom. The world becomes more dangerous. America is done as a world power as it becomes the ultimate welfare state because it not only takes care of its poor, it takes care of those crossing its borders.
The Great Depression Checklist.
Pecos Pete| 11.26.12 @ 7:40AM
King O will drive us off the cliff. Congress will be riding in the back seat. Whatever "deal" is made, if any, will be a disaster. The national debt limit will be raised by trillions. The accumulation of laws, regulations and piles of printed money will far outweigh any attempt to solve the crises. The crises can not be solved. Enjoy this year's Christmas because 2013 is going to be filled with disastrous economic events.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 7:40AM
It is time that conservatives face the reality that there is not a two party system and there is no state sovereignty or federalism. All of that died a long time ago. The elite and those that represent them, not us, decided, at the turn of the century, to forsake the classical liberalism of the founders for progressivism or America's version of socialist lite. This is not theoretical or hyperbole, it is reality. So, why does this remain a continual surprise? It is pathetically predictable.
Taxes will be raised, debt will increase, spending will continue, more control of big government in every facet of the nation's economy, more collusion between big government and big business, a shrinking of the middle class, etc. will continue because this is what is wanted and desired.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 8:04AM
Until a massive number of citizens become fully aware and ready to take action both on the local level and on the national stage, this will continue. It is no longer about elections as this process is corrupted and meaningless. It is about massive resistance and activism. No, it does not have to be a majority, it just needs to be a sizable and efficient, organized, and focused minority.
This is the only recourse left. We better start raising hell and stop waiting for Boner Boy to get it up because it will never happen. He is just not part of the problem, the GOP is in collusion and is the problem.
Sjccoach| 11.26.12 @ 8:34AM
Simon you are absolutely correct. The day will come but it is a long way off. Talk is cheap. Action is hard. The right has to take to the streets the way the left does. It is the only way to bring the ruling class down.
pogybait| 11.26.12 @ 10:33AM
How long before internet encroachments and warrantless invasions to our privacy as we continue to watch a deliberate economic sclerosis...?
Simon Templar| 11.27.12 @ 11:21AM
Not long, in fact it has already begun.
George S| 11.26.12 @ 1:17PM
Citizens are aware of what is going on but half of the voters do not care -- they will vote to raise taxes without giving it a second thought (see: California Proposition 30). Very easy to do when: a) you do not pay taxes, and b) when the tax base is your bread and butter.
Simon Templar| 11.26.12 @ 2:49PM
You are correct, the vast majority of blue states that comprise very large cities and large urbanized demographics are raising taxes because they believe in government as an equalizing and problem solving force. They see a great deal of wealth and believe in fairness. Do they realize they are voting for tyranny, No. It is not just those that do not pay taxes that vote for this in these blue states, it is the rich as well and the middle class.
Those in the red states know better.
OP4| 11.26.12 @ 8:10AM
I hope they don't make a deal. My taxes are going up either way - so let everyone get a taste of how wonderful higher taxes are.
The Democrats (and many Republicans) refuse to restrain their spending - yet they demand that Conservatives compromise on taxes. Just say no and let them own it all.
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 9:07AM
EXACTLY.
If I had your Email Address? I would send you a Home Version Game of Purp's Prostate Exam by Doctor Salamifinger. As many as 4 can play.
Occam's Tool| 11.26.12 @ 5:52PM
I don't want a deal, either. My nurses are happy that my taxes will go up---I would like to see the bite hit them, and have their taxes go up by a third. That would amuse me greatly.
Hardcard| 11.26.12 @ 9:20AM
moe, larry, curly is more like it. the other three could fix it!!
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 11:08AM
You would think that you would recieve a Prize for something as Deep, and Well Thought Out as that.
Something STAINED, perhaps, with a Lingering Stink upon it.
I'm just sayin.
Louis Jenkins| 11.26.12 @ 9:25AM
I have to agree with the above. Let the fiscal cliff come. Time to not resist change, change is good. Let the Democrats and the Republican big dogs own the fiscal cliff, and the flotsom that is found at the bottom. The screams and moans from the feds in Washington will not nearly be as loud as they should, but then they will not nearly be as affected. Put the nation in a straight jacket, beat the soles of their feet, water board them, we can take it. It's the fools who run our government who can't. The picture above, please note the buffalo goring an American Indian on a fallen horse. It's very appropriate.
OregonBuzz| 11.26.12 @ 9:42AM
We've already gone over the cliff. We just haven't landed yet. We all know what happens when our so called "government" attempts to "fix" a problem they created.
JP| 11.26.12 @ 10:55AM
I'm with strief over at Red State. Let the whole thing expire. The voters wanted a 2nd Obama term, well they got it.
In 6 weeks time 51% of the voters will realize that THEY are the millionaires and billionaires. One thing Jed didn't mention was the AMT. With the Clinton era AMT back in the game, a single male earning $50,000/year will find out just how Progressive Obama is.
Who Knows?| 11.26.12 @ 11:06AM
Marry “Just say no” to voting “present”---that’s my advice.
Or, “just walk away, Renee”.
In ANY negotiation, there is a panoply of possible outcomes. Then there is Reality, over which NO NEGOTIATIONS are possible.
It’s actually hubris time for Obama and his criminal organization, the Democratic Party. If Boehner and the GOP House were smart, they’d use judo---the gentle way---on Obama, and relax into their simple bottom line offer, to wit, cut spending and taxes, and say—
“Hey, yo! Mr. President, YOU WON.
Here’s what we want. We can’t stop you. So, govern.”
The most vital, bordering on existential, long term “investment” goal, is for the GOP to avoid ANY responsibility, GOING FORWARD, for what’s about to inevitably happen---big recession or depression, even.
No more Hoovers!
However, the dumbing down of Americans applies to ALL age groups, so there’s no doubt in my mind that such a well know “happening”, combined with the Peter Principle, means that Boehner and his followers are sure to dive over the cliff with the economy.
Time for America to sleep in her hubris bed.
Karma always works its way into Reality.
Hardcard| 11.26.12 @ 12:01PM
I'm all out of answers and I'm tired of the questions we are screwed (We the People). Lingering stink ? How about hillary's birkenstocks ?
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 4:05PM
I was thinking along the lines of my Poopenpants.
BShep| 11.26.12 @ 1:51PM
Our “betters” in Washington DC have already begun the “fix” to the fiscal crisis the way tyrants have always “fixed” fiscal crises. How? Inflation! Inflation! Inflation!
I suggest you all invest in the basic metals; gold, silver and lead. A little food and water might not be a bad idea either. You might want to also consider taking out a loan against your 401K money before the Feds take it away from you for your own good. Real assets are always a good hedge against inflation.
On the other hand, for purp and his fellow travelers; invest in T-Bills. I hear they are a good deal and can only get better. As a matter of fact, T-Bills are now the new Mutual Funds. You give your money to Obama and he invests it in good money making stuff like more money for teachers and unions, shovel ready projects and green energy. All guaranteed to give you a fantastic return on your money.
I know I am paranoid but am I paranoid enough?
Good Luck everyone. We will need it.
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 4:07PM
Remember: Just because you're Paranoid, doesn't mean that everyone isn't out to get you.
Seriously. Don't be Paranoid.
Consider yourself FOREWARNED.
Now, get out there and Prepare Yourself.
Bill8472| 11.26.12 @ 4:10PM
How often do you practice at the range?
With your "Mauser?"
TLP| 11.26.12 @ 5:53PM
Why would I Practice at a Range, with a SHOTGUN?
Why don't you go to your room, in your Mom's House, and "Practice" with your hand in your pants, like a good boy?
Santiago| 11.26.12 @ 2:31PM
Why all of the belt girding and efforts at preparing for rough times when you can still get out? Why not go to a smaller country that's much easier to influence (or in which to fly under the radar away from statism) and watch the US collapse from a distance? It seems the less painful option to me. If you don't like the idea of "giving up" on your country (admittedly pessimistic) then you could help with the reconstruction (assuming there will be one) after the downfall.
BShep| 11.26.12 @ 2:55PM
The problem with this thinking is that there is and will be nowhere to run to. America is the world’s banker, policeman, market and charity. Once we go down we will drag the rest of the world with us.
Every tin pot dictator and strongman will be looking to get theirs and no small country will be safe. The large countries are as bad or even worse than us. The world is heading to a bad place. I feel sorry for our children and grandchildren.
We will look back on the dark ages as the “good old days”.
I know I am paranoid but am I paranoid enough?
Good luck everyone. We will need it. Food riots in 2014.
Santiago| 11.26.12 @ 5:05PM
While I'm pessimistic about the US, there are other sane nations. Countries that maintain a high level of personal liberty & financial discipline tend to be naturally strong. Maybe you think that things in the USA are so hopeless that we couldn't react against a nuclear Iran, but I believe that other nations won't always look the other way (you think Canada would look at a civil war or nuclear attack on American soil and say "nice fireworks"?).
I suggest a glance at the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, there are places to "run to" if previously unthinkable things start to occur in the US. I'll give you the example of the country where I currently live. In Chile, a large portion of tax revenues come from mining royalties. Since Chile is the world's #1 copper exporter, US dollar commodity inflation is a positive. By law, a certain percentage (I believe 10%) of mining royalties must go to the Chilean military, and Chilean armed forces have become South America's most well-financed on a per capita basis. As long as this continues, there's no serious threat to Chile's existence. Australia is another, more obvious example that worries little about"tin pot dictators." India is a democratic country with 1 billion people and nuclear warheads. Brazil currently has a "leftist" president that is privatizing 3 public airports in time for World Cup improvements.
So I'm convinced that, though it may be ugly, there's still going to be a planet here over the next few years.
xavier2012 | 11.27.12 @ 2:26AM
I hope economic well soon