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‘Not Obama’ Wins Again

By on 10.23.12 @ 6:10AM

Romney maintains momentum in the final debate of 2012.

Who “won” the debate is a question instantly asked in the aftermath of these televised rituals, but with just two weeks left to go, the real question is, who will win the election? And after Monday night’s meeting in Boca Raton, Florida, the answer to both questions appears to be the same: “Not Obama.”

This has been Mitt Romney’s challenge from the outset, to make himself acceptable to the millions of Americans who want to vote for “Not Obama,” and his performance in the final debate of the 2012 campaign did nothing to disqualify him. As a result, the Republican challenger remains on a trajectory toward victory on Nov. 6.

Conservative blogger Elizabeth Price Foley summarized President Obama’s debate performance in four words: “Snarky, condescending, peevish and small.” If undecided voters were eager to embrace whichever candidate could best exemplify smug self-congratulation, Obama won by a landslide. After Romney had referred to the president’s “apology tour… going to various nations in the Middle East and criticizing America,” Obama shot back: “Nothing Governor Romney just said is true, starting with this notion of me apologizing. This has been probably the biggest whopper that’s been told during the course of this campaign. And every fact checker and every reporter who’s looked at it, Governor, has said this is not true.”

That was the point at which a group of uncommitted voters, doing an instant dial-meter reaction for CNN, recorded its lowest mark for the Democrat incumbent. And despite the emphatic stridency of Obama’s denial, as Foley pointed out, the Heritage Foundation has documented Obama’s tendency to strike an apologetic posture abroad, as when he went to France in 2009 and declared that “America has shown arrogance and been dismissive,” failing “to appreciate Europe’s leading role in the world.”

Fact-checkers, policy wonks, and spinners for both parties will rate the point-by-point accuracy of each candidate’s statements, but such particulars will not change the general impression of Obama as pompously indignant when challenged, lecturing Romney pedantically and often on the verge of dislocating a shoulder while trying to pat himself on the back. It is well known that Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry has been the president’s main debate coach, but at times Monday, it seemed that Obama was mimicking the same stuck-up attitude that made Kerry ultimately unacceptable to voters in 2004. Indeed, in trying to portray Romney as a George W. Bush clone, Obama at times seemed to be recycling the Left’s anti-war arguments of four or even eight years ago. If Michael Moore, Sean Penn, and Janeane Garofalo were typical of undecided “swing” voters in Ohio, the president’s re-election would be assured. Obama was one scream short of being Howard Dean.

The morning shows and cable-news networks are sure to spend a lot of time today replaying the weirdest moment of the debate, when Romney said — quite accurately — that the U.S. Navy “is smaller now than at any time since 1917,” with fewer ships than the Navy says it needs. To this, Obama replied: “Well, Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets, because the nature of our military’s changed. We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them. We have these ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines. And so the question is not a game of Battleship, where we’re counting ships. “

What in the name of John Paul Jones was this? Did the president sincerely think Romney needed to be told what submarines and aircraft carriers are? Fact-checkers were quick to point out that the Marine Corps still trains with bayonets, but the implication of Obama’s remark — that naval ships are as obsolete as 19th-century horse cavalry and bayonet charges — was certainly not likely to win him many votes in such swing-state Navy towns as Norfolk, Virginia, and Pensacola, Florida.

There were numerous criticisms of Romney’s performance, of course. The GOP challenger was seemingly eager to avoid the appearance of excessive hawkishness. Democrat strategists had signaled their intent to portray him as a warmonger, and Romney refused to help them. And judging from the reaction of liberal commentators in post-debate panels at MSNBC and CNN, Romney also flummoxed Democrats by frequently agreeing with Obama. It seemed obvious that Romney, believing he came into the final debate with sufficient momentum to win, was running the equivalent of a “prevent defense,” willing to yield ground and avoid risky confrontations. Thus, Obama was on the attack most of the night against an opponent who, while steadily maintaining his criticisms of the president’s policies, refused to be baited into unnecessary fights.

A CNN instant poll of debate viewers showed they graded the match a narrow win for Obama, 48-40, even while the debate had no net impact on survey sample’s election preferences. My own method of analysis was to switch over to MSNBC for their post-debate discussion and, as I remarked on Twitter, “Chris Matthews isn’t giddy. That means, Romney won.”

Does anyone disagree with that assessment? Never mind. Two weeks from now, my opinion will be moot, and the same will be true for all the commentators and moderators and other TV talking heads who have been running their mouths in debate previews and post-debate wrap-ups for the past three weeks. If they were willing to put their money where their mouths are, however, I’d be willing to bet any of them that on Election Day, when the voters have their chance to speak, they’ll choose “Not Obama.”

About the Author

Robert Stacy McCain is co-author (with Lynn Vincent) of Donkey Cons: Sex, Crime, and Corruption in the Democratic Party (Nelson Current). He blogs at The Other McCain.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (216) |

John Navratil| 10.23.12 @ 6:18AM

Obama fed his base and Romney fed his. No gains or losses there.

I'm certainly not counted among the independents to be reached, but it seems to me that Romney reduced Obama to calling him a liar. Not exactly a resonant theme for attracting independents.

Mr. President. We have these things called elections. They happen every four years. It's when people go to the polls and choose whom they want to lead them. Ask Joe, he'll tell you all about it. To win one, you have to attract voters to you. Try it!

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 7:14AM

So, here we are. Nothing to do now, but vote. Come November 7 we will either be Rhodesia? Or we will be Zimbabwe. We will be Reagan's Shining City on a Hill? Or Snake Plissken's Escape from New York.

"I felt that Romney was playing a Prevent Defence."

I don't like The Prevent. I Hate the Prevent. I DESPISE it. I like the All Out Blitz, the Gang Tackle, the Clothesline, and the Safety Blitz. I LOVE the Safety Blitz. (And the Safety Dance)

The Jets went into the Prevent Defence 2 Days ago against the Patriots. They had the lead with 1:35 left on the Clock in the 4th Quarter, against Tom Brady, and they only Rushed 3 Guys, dropping 8 back in Coverage.

FINAL score: Pats 29 the Loser Jets 26 in overtime.

If you are beating your Opponent all game with your Game Plan, the way it is? It is the height of Stupidity to "Fix" what ain't broken, on the Final Drive, and "ALLOW" your Opponent to move down the Field, at will.

You don't like Sports Analogies? How about Military ones?

Patton famously said - And I'm Paraphrasing - "We're gonna grab the Hun by the Throat and kick him in the Balls. We are never Falling Back. We are never gonna expend Men's lives to take the same ground Twice. We are going to keep pressing ahead, and we are Never Going Back!" (Or some such thing)

The Prevent (And, for you Ladies [and Rickey Martin, who thinks it's a good idea to talk about me when I leave the room] it's pronounced Preevent) is like the Middle of the Road. It's where you get run over.

Von Mises Jr| 10.23.12 @ 7:27AM

I have to disagree with both John and Tim. When your enemy is committing suicide, get out of the way.
Mitt frustrated the shit out of little Barry. He insulted and ridiculed him with a smile and soft words.
Obama was arrogant and petulant, descending to condescension. Here is the guy that blamed unemployment on ATM's now telling us that we no longer use horses and bayonets. He is telling us about advanced weaponry while he dismantles our nuclear weapons and shield after turning NASA into a Muslim outreach.
Obama looked like a petty fool and Mitt never even had to raise his voice.
Intelligent women should now have a "War on Obama." If my kid had acted that way, I would have slapped him silly.

vtwin| 10.23.12 @ 7:49AM

Now you’re just being silly. Hey, maybe that’s your problem; your daddy done slapped you.

CJW| 10.23.12 @ 8:05AM

You must be the designated PURP of the day. Did Obama or Bidne write this intelligent penetrating comment for you?

Obama acted as he really is. Smug, stupid, silly and desperate for a fight to arouse his obamdolt base. His base wants him to attack and insult because they have no substantive arguments.

Romney was confident, positive, and presidential. He ignored Obama for the most part, which was smart, so he would not descend to obama's level.

If obama believed he was winning he would not have acted as a little barking dog. He knows the momentum is against him.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 9:17AM

No. That's vtwin, and he thinks his "Nigga" (his word, not mine) won the debate when his "Nigga" (his word, not mine) called Romney a Liar, when Romney brought up vtwin's "Nigga's" (his word, not mine) Apology World Tour, claiming that it Never Happened.

Once again, he Lied to the American People, who SAW HIM on on his Self Flagellation Tour - Bowing to the Muslim King of Saudi Arabia. NOT Bowing to the Christian Queen of England. APologizing for us Using up all of the World's Resources. Apologizing for our Arrogance. Apologizing for our Wealth. Apologizing for our Big Cars.

WE SAW HIM.

But, last night, the Pathological Liar In Chief said to us - "Who you gonna believe? Me? Or your Lying Eyes."

That's vtwin's "Nigga" for ya. (his word, not mine)

Tell The Big Lie, and just keep on tellin it, no matter what. In for a Penny, in for a Pound. "That's my story, and I'm stickin to it."

Isn't that right, Sh*tferbrains?

You, and your "Nigga". (His word, not mine)

Anthony| 10.23.12 @ 10:13AM

Don't worry vtwin, if you're concerned about your lack of being slapped around, wait a few weeks, your chickens are com'n home to roost.
Say, what did happen to that clean, articulate, black man who was going to lower the seas and have the world love us again?
The petulant, snarky guy pretending to be "The One" last night seemed more like a Chicago political thug than Mr. Post Partisan. Gee, did I say that?
Oh well, the emperor has lost more than just his clothes, and the election will be his final loss.
Vtwin, will you join the rioters when Obozo loses? Please come to my neighborhood, I'm dying to greet you.

janetd| 10.23.12 @ 8:14AM

I agree with you. Romney came across much more presidential and Obama was unnerved to say the least, and while Obama thought his pre-planned comment about horses and bayonets was funny, the fact is bayonets and horses ARE still used by our military, the latest being in Afghanistan. My only wish was that Mitt would have nailed Obama more on his betrayal of Israel.

A. C. Santore| 10.23.12 @ 10:23AM

You're right that the military still uses bayonets and horses. Obama chided Romney about learning more about our military in the same sentence in which he demonstrated that Obama needs to do the same.

If I were involved in the Romney campaign, I'd have two huge photos made - one of Marines with bayonets, and one of our troops using horses in Afghanistan - and displaying them everywhere he goes.

C Smith | 10.23.12 @ 11:30AM

Horses; bayonets; aircraft carriers; planes; Obama is not familiar enough with the nuances of ordnance to make these associations, particularly on the fly, he was prepped, well prepped, but how did they know to prepare this very specific 1916 ambush?

A few OKC-3S's would have helped in Benghazi, and a contingency of horses would be very advantageous in a post-EMP world.

Terrible Ted| 10.23.12 @ 1:42PM

Especially since Romney said "1917."

John Navratil| 10.23.12 @ 8:17AM

Von Mises Jr,

I'm missing the bit about how we disagree ;)

Von Mises Jr| 10.23.12 @ 9:07AM

You are correct, John. I read your comment incorrectly. I thought you meant Romney calling Obama a liar would turn off independents.
My bad. My apologies.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 9:22AM

Oh. So you're disagreeing with me.

Let him keep digging, you say.

I agree. I just think you can do Both, attack AND let him continue digging his hole.

I think VMjr thinks he better than me, John.

I think he thinks he's better than me.

I'm gonna lift my television set up over my head.

Albert Constantine Jr.| 10.23.12 @ 9:33AM

Mendelbaum, Mendelbaum, Mendelbaum!

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 4:07PM

Thank you!

You're the only one who got it.

Why am I not surprised?

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 4:08PM

What would I do without you?

Bob Grant| 10.23.12 @ 10:46AM

TLP,

I disagree. You cannot do both in two minute intervals and with a moderator who will simply 'move on' when scoring points.

In a real debate forum, yes, you can do both. This is hardly a real debate forum.

I thought considering the rules of the game at hand and Romney's position leading up the debate, he acquitted himself well.

After all, he's not after my or your vote - he had my vote at 'I accept your nomination for president of the United States'. He's after the low-information, hand-wringing, undecided vote.

And I think this was the only strategy to use.

SUBVET| 10.23.12 @ 9:21AM

Jr. ..................ditto

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 9:23AM

You too?

Von Mises Jr| 10.23.12 @ 11:47AM

Sorry TLP. But democracy is on my side. But we can agree to disagree and still be pals.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 4:00PM

Best Pals.

I'm still gonna lift my T.V. over my head. (Seinfeld)

Occam's Tool| 10.23.12 @ 12:11PM

Guys, remember that Romney is getting the same Intelligence data that Obama gets at this time (a courtesy extended to the candidates of both parties since the Truman administration), and he actually reads it.

He did fine---stating that we would back Israel militarily is very important, especially since the Iranians know that Romney, unlike Obama, means it.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 12:27PM

Good point O/T:
Romney knows the situation on the ground now. Clearly he is better able to digest and interpret the meaning (boardroom executive experience after all) than the president who failed his OJT.

Terrible Ted| 10.23.12 @ 1:40PM

Romney did the Safety Dance; you LOVE the Safety Dance.

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 8:02AM

Not true ... When Willard said "Syria is Iran's gateway to the Sea", he uncovered his lack of knowledge of the area. How can he be that stupid?
Iran and Syria don't even share a border and Iran has it's own coast on the Persian Gulf (DUH) and the Indian Ocean.
Does he know where Africa is? Can he shoot straight? I think not.
He's a 1-trick pony - tax cuts for the wealthy.
the President is far more knowledgeable, nimble and experienced and has guided this country well - all points he made last night, again.
He will be re-elected, no problem

CJW| 10.23.12 @ 8:07AM

Purp the Village Idiot
Make up your mind is it purp or vtwin. You get the same $10 per hour.
Dimwit, did you ever hear of the Meditarranean Sea? Look at the map, moron, not the map with 57 states, either.
obama is toast. Start working on your Hillary lines for 2016.

Von Mises Jr| 10.23.12 @ 9:13AM

Hey it looks like Perp is back from beating up the WI State Senator's son. Soros probably paid him double time plus travel expenses.
Fortunately George did not have to pay for hookers since Perp and his buddy spent the evening at the juice bar squeezing out smoothies.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 9:37AM

It is good to have Purp along with us, to remind us what the true believers are and how delusional their world actually is.

Von Mises Jr| 10.23.12 @ 11:50AM

What are you crazy Al? Perp is a POS.

Even Jesus had a qualifier citing "men of good will."

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 12:29PM

Oh Jr., Know your enemy. We need a purp to remind us how delusional the opposition is. The stakes are too high to overlook just where they wish to take this nation.

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 10:44AM

We can guage how much you're losing by how nasty and disgusting you guys get in your comments.
Soooo, nasty away. It only proves the point.

Bob Grant| 10.23.12 @ 10:54AM

Perp,

The bottom line is Romney was playing strategically, not tactically.

Sure, obama gave you your tingles back but WHO CARES?

Your petulant little man-child's act has worn thin among the voting bloc Romney was after.

Romney won the debate season after the first debate. Nothing for Romney to win at this debate.

Come to grips with it.

Anthony| 10.23.12 @ 11:22AM

And what point is that Purp? That you disgusting leftist thugs are threatening violence if Obozo loses? Physical threats against Romney himself?
Is this how you enlightened leftists behave? Of course, cuz down deep you all are disgusting, vile, POS.
But I'll extend the same invitation to you that I did vtwin, do please come to my neighborhood when Obozo loses.
We'll keep the lights on for ya.

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 9:44AM

Nice try ... 53% to 28% Obama wins from uncommitted voters - at this point, that's all that matters.
He'll hold his lead, he's proven there's no reason to change to an unproven quantity that etch-a-sketches his way along. From Hawk to Dove, from pro-life to pro-choice and back again ... he's too wishy washy to be a Commander-in-Chief

Frank Drackman| 10.23.12 @ 9:51AM

I etch-a-scetched your wife...

Obama-Bin-Frank-Drackman

Bob Grant| 10.23.12 @ 11:46AM

I"m sure his wife is a 'Julia'-type. One who leeches off the government from cradle to grave and whose hubby ain't cutting it in the responsibility department.

And, hence, another Obama Phown Person is born.

---- " Got's my obama Phoowwwnn... Keep obama in president, you know?"

Alan| 10.23.12 @ 10:28AM

Keep telling yourself dolt, the Kenyan jungle boy is going to win, the Kenyan jungle boy is going to win, the Kenyan jungle boy is going to win........

Stkman| 10.23.12 @ 10:36AM

He should be sure to tap his heals together as he says it.

irish19| 10.23.12 @ 8:46PM

Good point. Details matter.

Tom Kyba| 10.23.12 @ 10:47AM

Your "arguments" sound silly and desperate.

Anthony| 10.23.12 @ 4:38PM

53% to 28%, the uncommitted to Obozo? Only on the planet Uranus, Purp. Hey Purp, cheer up, Obozo was always too swishy to be Commander-in-Chief, so says the boys at the Chicago bath house.
They are looking forward to the return of "The One". Purp, you can hold Obozo's lead, errr......
Careful when praying on the prayer rug there Purp when at the bath house.

JmsA| 10.23.12 @ 10:31AM

You don't need a map to understand what Romney meant: Syria and Iran don't have common borders, but the Shia do insofar as Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon are concerned. There are thousands of Iranians fighting in Syria in support of Assad, who along with Shia Iran supports Shia Hezbollah in Lebanon. Iran's gateway to the Mediterranean runs through southwestern (Shia) Iraq. And as to our number 1 geopolitical adversary, Russia, they have naval installations in Tartus, Syria.

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 10:42AM

So are you saying Reagan didn't "win" the Cold War? Russia is still our nemesis?

Really? Never expected Right Wing World to dis Ronald Reagan's legacy... Wow!

JmsA| 10.23.12 @ 11:56AM

I noticed that you did not refute my main point. As to President Reagan, he defeated the old Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact, but Russia and its expansionist goals remain, including arming our enemies, i.e., Iran., while as Romney pointed out, challenging us in the United Nations, as do also the Chinese. Wake up, dummy. If anyone needs a map and clue, it's you and the likes of you.

Jacobite| 10.23.12 @ 3:09PM

The important point in this analysis is to note that O'bwana's "base" consists of non- and anti-Americans. When 53% of the voters in a national election favor the candidate that wants to destroy your society, culture, civilization, religion, and morals, your problem isn't gonna be solved by winning the next election with 53% of the vote the other way. These O'bwana-voters are the biggest Fifth Column in history.

drudge ette obama| 10.23.12 @ 6:29AM

Finally, Obama explained to me that boats that travel underwater are called submarines. Obama seemed pretty silly at that point - it was very funny to watch. I think Obama thought he was being brilliantly funny, but it was more akin to some 8 year old boy telling a knock-knock joke, then laughing himself silly.

Albert Constantine Jr.| 10.23.12 @ 7:03AM

If Jon Stewart's audience was undecided, Obama's "horses and bayonets" line might have swung them, if conditions were optimal. It must have been disheartening to whomever wrote that line for the current POTUS when the statue for the "Horse Soldiers" outside of Ground Zero was unveiled, somewhat weakening his argument about 21st century warfare (not to mention that the Marine Corps will not be giving up its bayonets anytime soon).

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 7:23AM

Let me see if I've got this right.

We have Aircraft Carriers that have Airplanes on them? I get it. Like a Car Carrier, only this one's for Planes.

And, we have Submarines, that are Boats that go underwater.

So, what does a Sub Sandwich do?

The Russians must be laughing their Asses off.

Maxwell| 10.23.12 @ 8:16AM

TLP, wit all due respect sir, I have the feeling it is not only the Russians. I did not see the debate last night because of welding class (yes, even programmers want to learn how to weld) so I have to rely on the 'expert' commentary here.

There are some great comments here this morning which have me laughing. My cube mates think I'm bonkers & wonder why I am laughing at program code on my screen.

jothepro| 10.23.12 @ 9:18AM

Like

Jacob McCandles| 10.23.12 @ 8:43AM

And if Obama was arguing for new warfare technology, everyone knows that is ridiculous. He has nothing but disdain for our fighting men and women. He drone strikes for votes only.

Here's the debate's most damaging aspect for Obama: mute the TV. Look at those two men. Obama looked like a sneering little imp who just got punished by the teacher. It was downright disgusting. Romney looked like a president, like a leader. He got even more women votes last night.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 2:56PM

No.

He looked like a sneering little PIMP, because that's exactly what he is. A Pimp, pimping out Our Tax Dollars to His Buddies, for Campaign Cash, and Obamaphones to the Dregs of Society, for their Votes.

The Avenger| 10.23.12 @ 7:49AM

He is a dumb ass of the first degree and anyone who cast a ballot for a dumb ass is also a dumb ass. Petulance and and a dismissive attitude is oh so "progressive."

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 8:03AM

Apparently, you mean Willard since he LOST bigtime and is on his way to losing Florida and Virginia now.

Stkman| 10.23.12 @ 9:11AM

What is that smell? Damn thats nasty. Damnit, I stepped in Purp again.

Jack in Wi| 10.23.12 @ 7:04AM

Romney sounded a more peaceful note on foreign policy. That should be enough for him to win the election. The country wasn't going to elect another warmonger. Now if he is elected I expect him to put all those neocons he has hanging around stinking up his foreign policy team to be given jobs in the basement back room of the Executive building. Where they can write memmos to be ignored and shredded. Hopefully his foreign policy will ne a realistic one like GHW Bush not his dimmwitted son. I think Romney is too smart to follow the Neocons over the cliff again. At least I hope he is.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 7:41AM

Will you Shut Up already, with all your B.S. Peace Bullsh*t? And, enough already, with the whole Neocon (Jew) Bullsh*t.

I notice you never write anything about your Ccksckr Goat Licking Buddies. Our Embassies get Attacked. Our Consulate is Burned to the ground. Our Ambassador is RAPED by these Homo MFers, before he's MURDERED, and all you wanna talk about is Neocons (Jews) and Peace?

Pick up your Gun (I know you have it on the table next to your chair) Put it in your Mouth, and PULL THE TRIGGER. If you won't do it for Us? Do it for yourself.

Otherwise, get on a Plane and fly off to the Hell On Earth that your Pedophile, Cold Blooded Murderring, Sodomite friends have made for themselves, and spout your Stupid Sh*t to them, until they Cut Your Head Off.

Only then, will Peace be upon you.

If you're lucky? You're buddies'll stick your head back up your @ss where you usually keep it.

That's what Friends are for.

The Avenger| 10.23.12 @ 7:51AM

But what do you really think?

mike 3/505| 10.23.12 @ 8:06AM

Tim is going thru his "subtle" phase again.

Maxwell| 10.23.12 @ 8:17AM

His comments really put me in the 'mood', brightens up the day!

TinaB| 10.23.12 @ 9:04AM

It's like boiling it all down, reducing it, so to speak, as with a fine glazing sauce, when Timmy nails it. Especially when he's in his "subtle" phase.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 9:26AM

I need to poop.

I'll be back.

Stkman| 10.23.12 @ 10:37AM

Dropping a Purp are you?

Skippy| 10.23.12 @ 1:02PM

I will alert the media.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:01PM

This week's Contest will be about my trip to the Toilet.

I'm thinking: Beach Scene from Lord of the Flies.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:10PM

I'm serious.

SUBVET| 10.23.12 @ 5:44PM

Toilet trip you say............I am thinking of the seen at the begnning of Slum Dog Millionaire when the little haji tries to hide and fell into the pit of sh*t.

I think this might be my early entry into the contest...let me see how can I begin.....barry/sh*t.

TLP| 10.24.12 @ 7:10AM

Now you're gettin it.

Occam's Tool| 10.23.12 @ 12:14PM

I'd have been a little more explicit, Tim. But you know what I think of Jack the Jihadist Dick Milking Machine.

chuck| 10.23.12 @ 7:59PM

Damn Tim, I've been trying to get Jack to improve his outlook by eating a bullet for a while now. Your buddy Ross deleted my last comment to Jackass with that suggestion.

Sure would make this a happier place if he did.

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 8:06AM

He was "etching sketching " last night ... Who knows what the man would do about anything. he says whatever he thinks plays well at the moment.

Moderate Mitt is his core, pro-choice and pro-gay. and Peacenik Mitt.

CJW| 10.23.12 @ 8:38AM

The real obama is the one who apologized and bowed to muslim dictators, and has the nedorsement of Hugo, Castro, and Putin. Why would they prefer a weakling like Obma? He is too busy to mee with Bibi but has plenty of time to meet with Beyonce and Letterman and other such foreign policy experts.

The real obama is as follows.

In "Dreams from my Father," Obama mentions "Frank" and Rev Wright more than anyone else except his immediate family. So Obama's mentors are a Stalinist commie and an anti-semite, anti-American, racist so called preacher.

And we cannot forget the terrorrist Billy Ayers who was so far left even the Kennedys had to renounce him when Ayers supported Sirhan Sirhan, the killer of Bobby Kennedy.

His financial mentor is the Chicago crook, Tony Rezko.

The Obama fanboys see in Obama what they want to see and ignore the facts, thus when you mention Davis, Wright, Ayers, and Rezko, they use the Clinton defense of "that is old news" hoping nobody pays attention.

Pecos Pete| 10.23.12 @ 9:48AM

CJW: You forgot Slumlord Jarrett.

CJW| 10.23.12 @ 11:43AM

Pete
So many mentors to remember.
Jarrett's father and Axelrod's father were commie comrades of Davis.
Why did an Hawaii guy move to Chicago? The weather? Did Obama prefer the lake beach to the Pacific?

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 10:47AM

Ahhh, but the President IS already president - and done an excellent job on all fronts.

Romney has to prove he's worth the risk to change. He has not. Do you know if he's right wing, centrist or lefty on any particular issue?

Perhaps on Self-Deportation of Hispanics I suppose. Which gets him 25% of the Latino vote - while the President has 70% of the vote.

You can't trust Willard, it's that simple.

CJW| 10.23.12 @ 11:41AM

Wow, what an insight, the president is already the president. Purp, you are a genius. Did you look at the map yet to see the sea next to Syria, and the 57 states.
The Village Idiot lives up to his reputation.

gene| 10.23.12 @ 12:56PM

This is a deplorable insult to Village Idiots all over the world. Shameful.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 11:44AM

Interesting definition of "excellent".

Right wing, left wing, centrist? I'll take executive competence over street corner rabble rouser.

Tom Kyba| 10.23.12 @ 10:49AM

And even more silly and desperate. keep grabbing those straws Mr. Matthews.

Fiscal| 10.23.12 @ 7:25AM

Obama did win the debate unless you are an extreme right ideologue who can't be objective. And Romney's statement about Navy ships is just naive and dumbed down for people who don't think. You don't evaluate military needs by numbers -- you do it by objectives and tactics. Any of us who actually served and was involved with assessment clearly know that.

That said, the debate probably didn't affect the election at all. Those hardened on the right and the left are not changing their votes. This was all about not scaring the down to earth voters in Ohio for Romney and seeming strong for Obama. Obama will win if he can get out his base because he has a structural advantage. It's not about debates or advertising now -- it's about the ground game and that is something we can't really see until election day.

Von Mises Jr| 10.23.12 @ 7:32AM

What is your point, fecal?
TEA Parties across the country are the volunteer ground game with passion, not just some paid SEIU thugs or ObamaPhone recipients. The AFP phone banks are on fire while Sandra Puke got 10-12 abortion survivors at a rally yesterday.

Fiscal| 10.23.12 @ 7:58AM

Devolving into name calling, Mises???? I guess if you don't have a point, that's all you can do. I never said those on the extreme right are motivated -- they are. However, those on the extreme left are less motivated -- and for good reason -- Obama is NOT a leader. So if the left can light a fire beneath their base, there are more of them than on the right and they can win. Obama has a structural advantage because he has all of those electoral votes in the NE and the West Coast. Romney needs Ohio or it will be nearly impossible for him to win. Can you spell O-B-J-E-C-T-I-V-E, Mises????

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 8:30AM

He can spell your name, and that's good enough for the rest of us, Not Named: fecal.

They always try and make up for their Indefensible Views on EVERYTHING with a spelling test, because they're Pathetic, and they know it.

And, if I spelled something wrong?

Good!

And, Fck You.

Tom Kyba| 10.23.12 @ 10:50AM

Right on about the childish spelling tests TLP.

Occam's Tool| 10.23.12 @ 12:16PM

Fiscal: Romney's gonna win Pennsylvania, making Ohio irrelevant. But I think he will win there, too.

Californians sucks. Beautiful state with the shittiest people in the country.

SUBVET| 10.23.12 @ 5:49PM

Hey....Hey about CA.........the other day I had to go to costco I think I was the only white guy in the place.

spike59| 10.24.12 @ 6:19AM

the problem for OmaMao is that nothing seems to be 'lighting a fire' for the Left, and many of those 2008 'hopeychangers' have awakened from a kool-aid binge to a hangover, centered mainly in their empty wallets. the Right is FAR more energized, and FAR more likely to vote, and the undecideds, which normally break for the challenger, have largely RUN from ObaMao, even more so since the first debate, when Romney took a flamethrower to the strawman that ObaMao and his MSM had carefully constructed. ObaMao's numbers in EVERY demographic are below what it was in 2008, and a lot of his most important supporters, the 18-25 yr olds, aren't even planning to vote...can you spell D-I-S-A-S-T-E=R?

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 8:11AM

Ohio, Ohio, Ohio.

What about Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Colodado, New Hampshire, and Nevada? Even Michigan is in play, and why wouldn't they be? Believe it or not, there are still Americans that prefer a PAYCHECK, to an Unemployment Check, or a Welfare Check.

Free at last. Free at last. Thank God, Almighty, we are almost Free at last, again.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 11:47AM

TLP:
It still comes down to FL and Ohio. If PA or CO or WI come along, it's decisive.

BTW: Ohio = 18; PA = 20 A fair trade but unlikely.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:06PM

Pennsylvania is a Coal State, as is Ohio.

That's a Sh*t load of Votes.

People wanna Work!

Even Union People.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:07PM

And, Florida is already in the Bank.

Trust me.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 3:51PM

TLP:
I only pray you are right.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 5:12PM

So do I.

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 10:51AM

Tea Party? For what - John Boehner to surrender again on fiscal policies?

You are getting desperate. Romney has been stopped and the President's lead will hold. He was Presidential and Commanding last night and that is the final nail in the Romney coffin.
The Koch Bros shall not rule, and that's better for the country.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 12:40PM

presidential and commanding? I would have called it patronizing.

BTW, is anyone else getting tired of daylight time? Getting up in the middle of the night is kinda silly and uses more energy than it saves.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:10PM

You lost me there, at the end.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 3:53PM

Totally off topic, but I'm getting tired of waking up in the dark cause the clock is an hour fast. DST is supposed to save energy but we have to turn on all the lights in the morning.

SFCMikeJ| 10.23.12 @ 8:05AM

I served and I was involved with assessment and it is all about the numbers.

Now admittedly it is not just about raw numbers. We had three ships now we have two so we are weaker is too simplistic. Its about combat power. However, in a debate where you only have a few moments to make your point getting into combat power, equipment capabilities and force multipliers is impossible so saying the Navy is smaller is a legitimate way of pointing out that it is less capable.

Then, sometimes raw numbers is what counts. If you have three objectives and two boats one of them will not get serviced.

Mike J0hnston
SFC USA (RET)

mike 3/505| 10.23.12 @ 8:08AM

another saying, back when we were facing of the Soviets in Fulda, "Quantity is a Quality all its own."

Albert Constantine Jr.| 10.23.12 @ 8:51AM

Its funny that you bring up Fulda, as I imagine the Cold War was what Obama was referencing when he made his remark about the 80s calling. My guess is that that line would have had "the Choom Gang" laughing uncontrollably, as that (along with his campus fellow Marxists, bearded or otherwise) was whom he was associating with, back when I and my colleagues were studying the Fulda in Grafenwehr (or however it was spelled) at Fort Sill, or you were actually standing a post on the Czech border waiting for the mass of T72s to start their engines.

At the time, I loved the "Peace Through Strength" foreign policy of RWR, and I think its inherent value is enhanced when we consider that the Soviets aren't in the Fulda anymore, and we didn't have to kill millions (including you and me both) to achieve that. I'll take that policy any time.

Frank Drackman| 10.23.12 @ 9:30AM

I think it's
"Quantity has a Quality all its own"
like how Lee Harvey was able to nail JFK with a shitty Italian Rifle(never fired and only dropped once)

Frank

Skippy| 10.23.12 @ 1:59PM

I can hit an apple at 100 yards with any of my "shitty" WW2 bolt-actions.
And I was never a Marine like Oswald.
The JFK/magic shot theory is all wet.
Like the trunk lid of that Lincoln.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:13PM

I'll alert the Media.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:15PM

As far as the number of Surface Ships?

They're like Money, or Gas in your Car, or Bullets for your Gun.

You can't have TOO MANY.

Only, too few.

spike59| 10.24.12 @ 6:12AM

we used to say that 'when the balloon goes up, it doesn't matter that much if you can knock out 50% or better of the tanks roaring thru the Fulda; the remaining 50% or less are more than enough to push you back to the border in a matter of days"

Fiscal| 10.23.12 @ 8:33AM

Actually, Mike, I totally disagree. While it was several years ago, my job in the Army was G2 assessment for an operational command. The Navy, today, needs to be smaller because we are fighting asymmetrical warfare, i.e., more drones, fewer ships. The Navy has better targeting capabilities and is more mobile than at any time in history. Just like productivity increases in business, the Navy is far more productive today and thus needs fewer ships. However, we need more asymetrical capabilities like more SEAL teams.

Raw numbers do not count. If you have three objectives, perhaps only one boat is needed and the you can use drones or the Air Force to fight the other two.

SFCMikeJ| 10.23.12 @ 9:13AM

Fiscal,

I am all about combined arms and inter-service cooperation in combat. And what you said is true operationally. Perhaps we can service three objectives with one asset. I was referring to the Navy in my comment only because of the context of the underlying comment. However, I believe the entire force structure is being dismantled so we are losing capabilities across the board.

I think you are making the historical mistake of thinking about the last war or current fight. Our enemy is a bunch of AK-47 toting extremist so we don't need bombers, tanks and aircraft carriers. We need drones to surgically eliminate them. My perspective is peace through superior firepower. The extremist with the AK is supported somewhere up the line by a state. That state needs to know we have the ability and determination to deal with them. When the world believes we are capable and ready to defend our interests it leaves them alone.

As we pare our forces because we are in an asymmetrical fight others, think China, are growing their capabilities. How many drone strikes does it take to halt a Chinese armored invasion of Taiwan?

(continued)

SFCMikeJ| 10.23.12 @ 9:13AM

I hate seeing my brothers in arms lost. I hate it even more when there no good cause for it. But the worst is when they are lost because we weren't ready. I NEVER want to be in a fair fight. I want the ability to squash an enemy like a bug thus, hopefully, keeping the bug checked and never having to use the power to squash him.

Strategically it sends a message to our enemies, potential enemies and our allies when we become weaker. That message is: "Time to mess with America while we can get away with it".

History shows us that they will.

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

Fiscal| 10.23.12 @ 9:28AM

Mike, I never said our forces should be smaller in total, only that counting ships is naive and dumb. You define the current and future threats and proceed accordingly. You don't build ships because General Dynamics donated to your campaign -- you build ships because you need them. Oversimplification is dumbing down the electorate and trying to back up Romney on this only makes doing the right thing more difficult.

SFCMikeJ| 10.23.12 @ 9:53AM

Fiscal,

True. But the implication you made was that Romney has no understanding of a nation's military strength because he was counting heads and that counting heads is not the way to evaluate capabilities. I will go back to my original comment. I don't believe Romney is so naive as to believe that just numbers of ships, tanks, or troops is the determining factor in military strength. You seem to feel that because Romney structured his comment about a decreasingly capable military in those terms he is naive, or worse, stupid. I feel that under the time constraints and structure of a presidential debate he was effective in pointing out to the audience that we are becoming weaker and thus more vulnerable to attack and war.

Seeing how small the percentage of the population has served in the military since we became an all volunteer force trying to explain this in more correct detailed terms would have caused the audiences eyes to glaze over and sent them to the pantry to see what snacks are available and the point, that being that we are weaker under Obama, would have been lost.

I am with you on the General Dynamics comment but it was Obama that helped build Solydra based on campaign contributions.

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

Maxwell| 10.23.12 @ 10:15AM

SFC, I like the A10. If there is one tool that I am in love with, that is the one. Ok, all the guns too but for the Air Force, the A10 is the bees knees.

SFCMikeJ| 10.23.12 @ 10:44AM

Maxwell,

I have to agree with you on the A-10. The bad guys seem to lay low when they are around.

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 11:50AM

Nothing on the ground survives under the A-10. Remember the Iraqi tank column headed toward our forces in the Gulf War? It vanished overnight.

CJW| 10.23.12 @ 12:21PM

Al and Mike
During the Reagan era, didn't we have a "600 ship" Navy as the standard to fight a two ocean war?

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 12:43PM

That was Reagans' goal. I cannot recall at this remove if it was achieved but came close. Million man army, more ships and fighter wings needed years ago, but The Left thinks Americas' military is destabilizing to the world. Remember to them the US is the bully and everything would be peaceful if they didn't have us to oppose.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:25PM

Reagan built a 600 Ship Navy.

I'm astonished that some of you are poo pooing the Importance of OVERWHELMING FORCE.

Ask the Japanese about not having enough Surface Ships. Ask the Nazis about not having enough Planes. Ask the British, in WWI, about not having enough Machine Guns.

As General Custer about not having enough Troops.

Ask a Poker Player about not having enough Chips.

The world is a Big Place. The More the Better.

Russia is BUILDING.

China is BUILDING.

We are not.

Do the Math.

Numbers matter. They always have.

Bigger is Better.

Size Matters.

You girls, out there.

Help me out.

SUBVET| 10.23.12 @ 6:41PM

OK...............here is a little bit of info about the 600 ship Navy.

Current active submarine count is 72 with 6 under construction. More were planned but dip shit cut the budget.

18 Trident submarines carry 50% of the total US strategic warheads. They carry 24 Trident I C-4 missiles with a range of 4000 mi. Maximum warheads allowed under START I is 8 per missile.

Do the math they carry 960 nuclear warheads.

54 SSN carry Tomahawk Cruise Missiles.

The Atlantic fleet carries Trident D-5 missiles 100 kt. ...6 x the Hiroshima bomb.

Trident Upgrade...475 kt. total flight time is 25 min. to target.

Each submarine cost $3 billion to build
To Operate: $77 mil. per yr. per submarine.
To purchase each new Trident II D-5 missile $60 mil.

Who needs a boyonet or a horse when you got this kind of power....and while delivering the shot whey don't know where you are.

From veteran qualified in submarines..........

Alan's Girl| 10.23.12 @ 10:29AM

Thank you for your service- both to our country & to this forum. Excellent commentary!

SFCMikeJ| 10.23.12 @ 10:46AM

Alan's Girl

Thank you for your kind remark. You welcome. It was an honor to have served.

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

Occam's Tool| 10.23.12 @ 12:17PM

Thank you for protecting me.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:26PM

That was Purp.

Alan's Girl.

Thom| 10.23.12 @ 10:24AM

Fiscal,
You don’t know what you are talking about. The World and the Oceans haven’t gotten any smaller. We haven’t fought a first rate opponent at sea since 1944. The dominate weapon then as now comes from the air either by launch from an aircraft or land/ship based missiles. Numbers will matter just as they did in 1944 when up against someone that has more than a few hundred combat aircraft.
In 1991 we sent 6 carriers with 6 carrier air wings to the Gulf. In 2003 we sent 6 carriers with 5 carrier air wings. Take away all the modern facilities in the Gulf region built for our use and that would have been all the US tac air in the region. Without significant “bases” in foreign countries the US Air Force has no play in much of the world. Where was the closest tactical Air Force base to Afghanistan before we went in?
At present we have 11 carriers, soon to be 10 for at least two years. Of that 10 one will be in a three year overhaul all the time. For each of the 9 deployable carriers only half can be deployed for extended periods of time if you want to keep them all deployable. Contrary to your beliefs the navy is less deployable today then in 1944. If you knew something about logistics and upkeep on naval vessels you wouldn’t make such a statement.

Thom| 10.23.12 @ 10:25AM

It takes 7 years to build a carrier battle group. Add another one to two to get it up to speed. Under your vision we would have to predict accurately our naval needs nearly a decade in advance for each carrier battle group we reduce. No one can do that. At our current building rate we won’t keep 9 deployable carrier battle groups by the end of this decade. You can count all the shipyards certified and capable of building naval advanced naval vessels on one hand in the US. Shrink the tonnage of the US navy and so goes what we have left for shipbuilding in the US.
The striking power of the US navy is centered around its 10 carriers and Aegis cruiser and DDG escorts . That’s less than 85 front line combat ships to cover the same ocean we’ve always had to cover. Submarines can’t conduct air ops and our Frigates are incapable of withstanding any kind of sustained missile attack. Our power projection centers around 10 battle fleets of air and ship based power and you want to reduce this and replace it with what that can do the same job? The last time I looked everywhere the Army goes the Navy and/or Marines went first to make that possible. I don’t think I’d be trying to compare the function of the Navy with that of the Army.

Thom| 10.23.12 @ 10:26AM

“Raw numbers do not count” Tell that to the widows of all the 8 man Seal team members from squads we’ve lost going up against platoon and company sized Taliban forces. Nothing like waiting for another 16 million drone with a top speed of 200 mph with Hellfires to show up in the middle of a fire fight to make you want to embrace those that spout the asymmetric warfare line as an excuse for more reductions in forces.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:30PM

Finally.

Someone who gets it!

Ask the guys from Blackhawk Down, in Somalia, who were DENIED the Tanks and Artillery Pieces (By The Rapist) that they requested.

ASK THEM!

Albert Constantine Jr.| 10.23.12 @ 8:23PM

I believe that faux pas of failing to provide the armor necessary to perform the mission in Somalia cost the SecDef from academia, former Rep. Les Aspin, his job.

Let us pray that one more former college instructor currently in a government position has to start looking for new work on November 7.

CJW| 10.23.12 @ 9:59PM

During the Reagan era when we had close to the 600 ship Navy, I believe we also had submarines, (or ships that go underwater), and aircraft carriers. I will have to check with Obama's campaign, where's purp? Maybe we had bayonets too.

Albert Constantine Jr.| 10.23.12 @ 11:29PM

I can state definitively that I was issued a bayonet along with an M16A1 rifle 1982-1983, though when I was issued my M1911 .45, there was no bayonet stud, so I had a Kabar instead.

Pecos Pete| 10.23.12 @ 8:41AM

I'd like to hear from SCPOret on this subject. From my own experience in the USN I'd say that numbers of ships does matter. What good are, say 10 super carriers, without the attendant support ships? What good are the Marines without enough ships and landing craft to get them there and then get them ashore. What good are aircraft that are 20 years old requiring constant repairs.

BTW, didn't I read somewhere that the plant making tanks was being shut down?

Fiscal| 10.23.12 @ 9:33AM

Again, you are presenting an oversimplification. It's not the number of ships, but the job that needs to be done. Then you make sure you have the appropriate resources. If you have 25 super carriers but no SEAL teams, for today, you'll lose.

And yes, there are so many spare tanks that we don't need to build more for the next 25 years. In fact, even the new ones that have never been used are getting rusted.

Houdini| 10.23.12 @ 10:44AM

Appropriate resources? Sounds real good until the bullets start to fly and you lose a few "assets" then numbers become a bit more important.

Thom| 10.23.12 @ 10:54AM

Again you speak from ignorance. The entire SF community is about 40,000. That is about as large as it can get from the pool of the military forces we have. The cost of each individual in a SF position is several times what the normal grunt is thus that and the specialized equipment and capabilities they use make each SF billet a premium cost like that of a trained pilot. In an all-volunteer force the only way to get more of these kinds of qualifications is to pay dearly for each and every one.

Comparing a carrier battle group to SF is your own oversimplification. Said carrier will serve 50 years and its escorts and aircraft 30 years. No SF serves much beyond 20 if that. A single battle group can waste a small city with virtually no loses. How many SF does it take to do the same? With no loses?

Thom| 10.23.12 @ 10:56AM

A modern military is built upon capabilities and capacities. Capabilities are just the various “tools” for the job. Capacity is the depth of those tools to do the job over some period of time. You are trying to solve yesterday’s problem by throwing away some tools for the sake of more of others all within the confines of the same tool box. We’ve done that for over a decade with predictable results. The best trained 8 men in the world can’t overcome 8 upgraded T55s with just the handheld AT weapons they can carry along with the rest of their load. The problem isn’t the type of tools in our tool box; it’s the size of the tool box and continually trying to recapitalize the mix of tools within a fixed size to solve the latest shortfall in capacity of one particular type of “tool”.

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 11:04AM

Let's see - a few dozen Navy Seals given orders by the President killed Osama Bin Laden.... in one night.

Over a hundred thousand troops were needed to invade Iraq and find Saddam Hussein given order by President Bush - over weeks and then months. At the cost of thousands of American and Tens of thousands of Iraqis.

Now which is the better policy? Invasion or Special Ops?
Which is cheaper? Which is less risky?

Why take the chance of going with a man that even his own State, Massachusetts isn't voting for (the people that know him best) and take the risk he can do the job. Especially since the President has shown he can do the job, keep us safe, shephard the economy from the brink of collapse to recovery with the lowest unemployment rate currently since 2008?
Anyone who votes for Romney isn't thinking, they;re just sheeple voting how their masters expect them to.

Thom| 10.23.12 @ 12:06PM

The cost of that mission to kill just one man, whose death has done nothing to reduce the threat of terrorism under AQ’s banner, was enormous. It took ten years to find Bin Laden, over two on your boys watch. The intel that led to Bin Laden was discovered on Bush’s watch btw. All your boy did was give the order after several requests to do so…. Next you will be telling us killing Hitler after the war started would have ended WWII right?

CJW| 10.23.12 @ 12:25PM

They had to drag O away from the golf course, put a jacket on him over his golf shirt, after Panetta made the decision overruling LaughingBoy Biden. Giving the order to kill Osama was not exactly a profile in courage. If Bubba had not turned down the three offfers for us to take Osama, there would have been no 9/11, no Iraq and no Aghan.

Thom| 10.23.12 @ 12:35PM

There would have been no Osama; I'm not sure that would have prevented 9/11. We defeated Hitler and To Jo by defeating their armies (followers). Ultimately I believe the same is true here. Fighting this like we did with organized crime bosses isn’t going to work in an open environment like you find around the world. We can’t stop 500,000 illegals getting into the US each year…

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:34PM

There wouldn't have been a Bin Laden, OR a 911, if THE RAPIST - Bill Clinton - had taken custody of Osama Bin Laden when Sudan offered him up, on a Silver Platter.

Don't ever forget that!

A. C. Santore| 10.23.12 @ 10:36AM

"Any of us who actually served and was involved with assessment clearly know that."

I served. I also know that objectives and tactics aren't worth a pin without the weapons and logistics to support them. Did you not learn that?

For a lifetime, I have had firmly in my memory our troops training with wooden rifles in those pitiful days before WWII when we didn't have enough real rifles - or enough troops.

That's exactly where the self-implied military genius - whose total military experience is community organizing - is taking us!

Occam's Tool| 10.23.12 @ 12:19PM

I always prefer to destroy my enemy and not fight him, when I can.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 12:47PM

!

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:37PM

Indeed.

I served in the Air Force, and let me tell you.

You can Never have enough Planes.

Ask the Nazis, who, at the end, had nothing left to stop our Bombers.

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 3:56PM

8th TFW, Ubon Thailand.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 5:16PM

My Wife is from Thailand.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 5:17PM

McGuire AFB. 75 to 79.

Albert Constantine Jr.| 10.23.12 @ 8:53PM

I knew she was Asian, but Thai, huh? Tell her "สวัสดี" from me.

crs52| 10.23.12 @ 4:46PM

Billions of taxpayers' dollars go to develop planes that will never fly a single mission or evnr make it past the drawing board. How does the Air Force benefit from that?

Pecos Pete| 10.23.12 @ 5:20PM

Billions of taxpayers' dollars go to develop "green energy" that will never produce a single watt. How do we benefit from that?

spike59| 10.24.12 @ 6:22AM

'snap polling' immediately after the debate showed an ObaMao 'victory'...but the same folks who thought ObaMao 'won' the debate, when polled for their preference for President, gave a majority to Romney

vtwin| 10.23.12 @ 7:37AM

Romney offered no substantive disagreement with Obama policies on Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Israel, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, or China and with Ohio slipping away from Romney, he even offered his support for Obama decision to save the American automobile industry. I’m surprised Romney didn’t show up to the last debate in blackface.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 7:49AM

Your "Nigga" (his words, not mine) is FINISHED.

Your "Nigga" is DONE, and there will never be another one. Not in our lifetime.

This Nightmare is almost over.

In 15 Days we will be Free of vtwin's "Nigga". (his words, not mine)

Purp| 10.23.12 @ 11:06AM

Are you black? This is a constant issue with you, isn't it?

Skippy| 10.23.12 @ 2:20PM

It doesn't matter if he is or isn't.
The only people who care are the racists.
That sems to include you.
And Prince Bambo.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:44PM

I'm just using vtwin's own words.

He wrote, in a comment attacking me, that Obama is "My Nigga".

Your beef is with him. Not me.

I'm just a messenger.

Now, Go Fck Yourself.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:51PM

Or, have your Boyfriend do it.

Either way.

Stkman| 10.23.12 @ 5:17PM

I finally figured out who TLP really is, it just hit me. He's really Don Rickles. I love it!

JP| 10.23.12 @ 11:37AM

And Obama essientially followed Bush on drone strikes, spec op strikes into Pakistan, and Iranian economic sanctions. I'm surprised Obama didn't show up in a 10 gallon hat and shit-kickers.

Alej| 10.23.12 @ 12:45PM

Romney offered no substantive disagreements with obama policies on the Middle East because the disastrous results are obvious. There's already a caliphate aborning contiguously from Iran to the shores of the Atlantic.

As for the automobile industry, when the jerk whined that Romney suggested General Motors go into bankruptcy instead of getting a fascist-styled federal bailout, saying Romney would rather destroy the company than save it, even my wife exclaimed, "That stupid bastard doesn't even know the difference between a Chapter 7 and a Chapter 11 bankruptcy !"

We'll smile and think of people like you on the morning of 7 November.

Abdullah| 10.23.12 @ 8:04AM

I would not be surprised, if Romney looses a few votes in states with sizable Hindu population, like North Carolina with his support for Pakistan. I just heard one of my Hindu colleagues at the watercooler changing his vote from R to O on this issue alone. I pray I'm wrong.

Albert Constantine Jr.| 10.23.12 @ 8:24AM

I would have that that Romney at least had the Sikhs with the Nikki Haley endorsement.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 8:40AM

C'mon.

The Muslim, is a Muslim. The guy named after Mohammed's Horse is a Muslim. His Father was a Muslim. His Stepfather was a Muslim. He was raised in the Muslim Schools and Mosques of Muslim Indonesia, where he was Adopted by his Muslim Stepfather.

Hamas believes that The Muslim is their Messiah. They believe that their god of Murder sent him to Deliver Jerusalem to them, and Destroy the Jews.

He thinks that the Muslim call to Prayer is the most beautiful sound in the world. And, he has Fundamentally Transformed NASA in to a MUSLIM OUTREACH PROGRAM.

On top of all that, The Muslim supports Pakistan.

So, just how STUPID are these Hindus, anyway?

Abdullah| 10.23.12 @ 10:18AM

TLP, all your points are accurate, but, unfortunately, when you speak to a person, who grew up in India, they do not believe "The One" is a Muslim, as he does not look like the Muslims they know from home (India's largest minority group). Most of Hindu tech guys I know are quite indifferent to the whole Muslim issue. I wish it was different, but it is not. As to the US Hindu Demographics, see this article http://www.hafsite.org/resourc.....mographics
At least 20-25 k IT guys from India work in Rally, NC alone. At least half of them are US citizens. Similar stats for Virginia. Most of them see everything in light of India vs. Pakistan, like it or not.

Skippy| 10.23.12 @ 2:26PM

Your Hindu pals will be shocked when black Americans, converted to Islam in prison and public schools, start slitting throats here at home.
Does the D.C. sniper ring any bells?

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:48PM

If you know my facts to be True, and you know all of these Hindus who can't see it?

Then I'd say that you've got some work to do.

Abdullah| 10.23.12 @ 4:22PM

Heh-heh. As I worked with so many of them for years, I tried to figure out their political preferences. Some of them are very conservative, mostly older guys. But many are very liberal and heavily rely on the Federal government. One of the best responses I got was "As we know how to handle the bureaucracy better than others, we can always win over clueless natives". Made me think...

crs52| 10.23.12 @ 4:41PM

Why aren't you concerned about Grover Norquist, the de facto leader of the GOP? He is married to a Muslim, is coufounder of the Islamic Free Market Institute, and has documented ties to Islamic nationals. Why do you Islamophobes ever talk about that?

Frank Drackman| 10.23.12 @ 9:28AM

Hey Abdullah baby,
whats with the gristle in my Corned Beef? Shape up or I'll take my business back to Cleetus and Bobby Joe...
North Carolina has a sizable Hindu population?
Where?
I mean besides at "South of the Border" buying firecrackers

Frank

Jacob McCandles| 10.23.12 @ 12:32PM

Pedro says......"too moch to-quila..."

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:50PM

Ignore him, Abdullah.

It's really not that hard to do.

Trust me.

Dodd2| 10.23.12 @ 8:36AM

"Democrat strategists had signaled their intent to portray him as a warmonger, and Romney refused to help them. "

This is true ... and it shows the power of the debates which removes most, but not all, of the media filter.

The Dims first got stung when Romney appeared reasonable & balanced in the first two debates, thus negating hundreds of millions of dollars of their negative campaign ads against him.

.

SUBVET| 10.23.12 @ 9:40AM

Little known fact the "lib's are out of $$$$$"

Pecos Pete| 10.23.12 @ 8:47AM

Romney was presidential while King O was, ummm, boss of the block.

Romney's debate strategy was excellent, even to using the old trick of agreeing with your opponent thus side-slipping unpleasant commentary. It is hard to hammer someone who is agreeing with you.

I was disappointed that Romney didn't spend a short time on Mexico and Fast and Furious. And, to my memory, no time on Canada and the Keystone Pipeline. Well, so much to say and so little time.

Romney didn't hurt himself and did help himself by stressing peace and the economy.

crs52| 10.23.12 @ 4:34PM

Romney's strategy is th same as it always is- lie, lie and lie, if someone calls you on the lie, just ignore it and keep repeating the lie.Stressing peace is pretty disingenuous when he has never shown one whit of interest in peaceful solutions.and his advisors are all Neocon hawks who can't wait to start another war.

Ralph Novy| 10.23.12 @ 6:28PM

Hear, hear.

SUBVET| 10.23.12 @ 6:49PM

Does CRS stand for "can't remember sh*t" and your age...........

Peppermint Tea | 10.23.12 @ 8:53AM

Did anyone hear Obama say he had Israel's back?

My wife started screaming at the screen.

Why didn't Romney remind him about his plan to negotiate from the 1967 borders?

I think Romney should have targeted Jewish voters from the outset of the debate; instead it sounded like he was speaking softly to soccer moms.

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:54PM

He does have their back, Tea.

The problem is that he has a Knife in his hand.

Frank Drackman| 10.23.12 @ 9:25AM

Didn't the SEALS use Horses in Aghanistan?
And my daughter, the Marine Officer Candidate says they still train with Bayonets, she even has a rubber one she sleeps with...

Frank

SUBVET| 10.23.12 @ 9:43AM

Frank.........your bad..... your own daughter ?

Frank Drackman| 10.23.12 @ 9:45AM

I meant a rubber bayonet, not a horse..
What can I say, Marines are strange.

Frank

SUBVET| 10.23.12 @ 11:10AM

I was thinking a personal tool.................

Skippy| 10.23.12 @ 2:30PM

I understand that, to a Marine, a weap0n IS a personal tool, and a best friend.
"You are dirty, it is clean. You are hungry, it is full.
You are wet, it is dry."
Or something along those lines....

spike59| 10.24.12 @ 5:58AM

"this is my weapon, this is my gun,
this is for fighting, this is for fun"

JP| 10.23.12 @ 11:22AM

It was actually the Green Berets. They used horses and pack mules. A dozen of them got a crash course in horsemenship in Wyoming just before they departed for Afghanistan. A few even spent a month in Romania learning how to handle pack mules in the Transylvanian mountains.

Truth to Power| 10.23.12 @ 9:26AM

Hugo Chavez, Vlad Putin, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Purp, Vtwin, RCV and Bob the fecal one all have endorsed the big O, how can we win? Rasmussen: R50-O46. Gallup: R51-O45. It is a bitch to be an incumbent mired in the 40's. Panic has set in and the left hopes for only winning the Electoral College. Great plan!

TLP| 10.23.12 @ 3:56PM

The very same Electoral College that they wanna get rid of.

Ralph Novy| 10.23.12 @ 6:27PM

Yeah. Aren't they just incredibly devious?

LOL

Truth to Power| 10.23.12 @ 8:39PM

Ralph joins Hugo, Vlad and Mahmoud in endorsing the big O. The big O needs your money right now. Don't make him call in favors from corporate America. Even five dollars would help. If you can't come up with five bucks go steal some signs or something.

AFAHMASP

gene| 10.23.12 @ 9:30AM

"Chris Matthews isn't giddy. That means, Romney won."

That is a shame. When Matthews goes off the deep end, he is the best thing that could happen to Romney. Every time he goes "giddy" he takes tens of thousands of votes away from Obama. I actually think he secretly might be a "Closet Republican". No one could be that clueless on purpose.

Dave Williams| 10.23.12 @ 11:23AM

Oh, but he IS....as are the hordes of kool-aid drinkers who will pull the lever for King Zero on 11/6. Sad to think that there are enough of them so that his re-election is a real possibility.

spike59| 10.24.12 @ 5:56AM

Matthews is so far in the closet over ObaMao, he's crouching among the hidden Christmas presents

Al Adab| 10.23.12 @ 9:42AM

Guys, you have the discussion off target. When one needs to project both presence and power one needs a number of ships. The capability of what we do posses is beyond belief but, just as in the realm of strategic weapons, there is still a necessity for the rifle and tank. Carrier battle groups are one thing, while patrol, landing ships and force projection require others. The equation is not as simple as the president (who I felt was very patronizing) would have his listeners believe.

Frank Drackman| 10.23.12 @ 9:48AM

Was I the only one who heard that Waterhead Bob Scheefer say
"Obama Bin Laden"
OK, prove me wrong, maybe I'M the Waterhead, it was late, and I was switching between "Gilmore Girls",
I mean, Monday Night Football,
and the Grecian Formula/Afro-Sheen debate...

Frank

A. C. Santore| 10.23.12 @ 10:50AM

You're right. He did refer to "Obama Bin Laden."

Kind of a Freudian slip.

Tom Kyba| 10.23.12 @ 10:56AM

Hey, if Ted Kennedy can say Barack Osama, er Obama Osama er Osama Obama "hiccup", then it must be okay for litle Bobby.

Who Knows?| 10.23.12 @ 11:14AM

May the trend force be with you.

The political futures site, Intrade, is moving in Romney’s favor. He has broken through 40% to 43%, currently.

Aside from all the “micro” screaming, such as by the partisans on this site, the “macro” measures also do their own kind of scream. Not to be TOO simplistic, but tracking the Intrade prospects for a GOP president together with the highs and lows of the stock market can be useful.

When the market goes up, so does Obama. When it is down, so is Obama.

So, watch the market, and hope for it to trend down, down, down, for the next two weeks.

In any case, it will definitely be intensely interesting to see what will happen in each precious day, until November 6th.

What a paradox! If it starts to become conventional wisdom that Romney will win, the stock market should rise. But if this happens, it will probably help Obama’s chances!

One thing about predictions---nobody KNOWS for sure what will happen.

Another thing---there is fundamental analysis and technical analysis. Maybe it’s the latter that has been dominant in influencing Intrade, heretofore. And, that, as always, the former eventually prevails.

Who Knows?| 10.23.12 @ 11:14AM

What is THE most human LAW, beyond the law profession and all its lawyers?

Supply AND demand!

Just as in the economic dimension, the interplay of these two fundamental human conditions works to produce the TRUE price of whatever, in the political realm it is doubly damned also true.

The supply----just two “goods”, Obama or Romney (omitting 3rd party candidates)

The demand---who are the buyers? The over 100 million voters, whose vote is always, of course, manipulated by the MSM, academia, Hollywood, etc, AND parents and friends.

If we’re lucky, as America is wont to be---read about The Battle of Midway, for one example, or Valley Forge---a political Great Awakening is presently taking place, and there will be a two pronged mind opening “attack” for most voters.

KISS---start to realize an existential revulsion to Obama, AND a truly hopeful one that Romney can be the humble one who can pivot America away from the abyss.

Yes---rave on, as Supply “makes love” with Demand!

Ralph Novy| 10.23.12 @ 6:25PM

Well, I know who DOESN'T know.

BackToBasics| 10.23.12 @ 11:28AM

Romney looked more presidential to those of us who are already planning to vote for him but he seemed tired and lacking the strength he showed in the first debate. Perhaps he was tired and maybe he also wanted to show the personality contrast between Obam and himself.

Even so, he would still have looked presidential if, for example, he had challenged Obam by pointing out that Obam was blaming congress for the sequestration bill when he is the one who signed it. Blaming congress showed a lack of leadership and further Romney could have turned this around to make the point that he will show more leadership skills when working with congress instead of blaming them.

bison cookie| 10.23.12 @ 2:05PM

OBAMA’S FOREIGN POLICY FAILURE: BENGHAZI, LIBYA. The one minute video below shows just one massive Obama foreign policy failure which led to the death of a U.S. Ambassador and three other American diplomats in Benghazi, Libya on 9/11/12. Tonight is the third and final debate between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama and the topic of … READ MORE:
http://bwcentral.org/2012/10/o.....azi-libya/

Carl Peter Klapper | 10.23.12 @ 2:05PM

And "Not Obama" is also known as "Jill Stein".

Phillip Galey| 10.23.12 @ 3:21PM

"snarky, condescending, peevish and small."?

M-m-m-m, . . . no, . . . not exactly: at one point, I might've asked: " 'They have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on . . . .'? How is your 'they have theses things like', not like an attempt at argument from the mouth of a TV educated adolescent, who has kept up on his sitcoms? But, to attempt to bring a discussion down to such a level as that, to offer solecism in sarcasm as was to seem as persuasive, is rather, destructive of argument."—could you imagine being constrained to sit in discussion with one who so attempted to paint you as the fool, . . . the only thing worse, of course, to hear it from The President of The United States of America; for, a teenager we could hold hope for?

Then also, mightn't one well have asked: "And as in 'mil'tary', and again in, 'mil'tary', and then, 'capabil'ty—in clipping your vowel sounds—I would marvel to know how carelessness or even inability in articulation is put forward as representing careful processing of thought?".

Butch| 10.23.12 @ 5:26PM

That's the key point: from whom it came. "Hey, let me explain it in terms that a seven-year-old can understand." From the President of the United States to an American citizen.

I agree in retrospect with Romney's strategy in this debate. He looked like the President, and Obama looked like the frustrated challenger.

Abdullah| 10.23.12 @ 4:27PM

Listening to the corpSman talking of submarines and aircraft carriers is like listening to a eunuch talking of foxy ladies.

crs52| 10.23.12 @ 4:31PM

Romney has proved himself a flaming idiot when it comes to foreign policy issue. His demonstration of his ability to memorize talking points does not change that fact. And for all of his rheotric to the contrary he has NEVER been about peaceful solutions. Just look at his "Romney's New American Century." It basicaly parrots the Neocons "Project for a New American Century and it isn't about peace- it's about world domination by the US.

Stkman| 10.23.12 @ 5:28PM

crs52,
You need to understand something. There are four major factors trying to control the world. China, Russia, The Muslim and the U.S. If it has to be one of those five I'll take the U.S..
Before the U.S., it was Brittain, before them Spain, before them Romans, before them Egyptians. My point is someone has always dominated the scene. Why not us? We as a people have more common sense than any of them. All they can do is copy us. We lead in nearly everything. We especially lead in civil rights and freedom.

gene| 10.23.12 @ 4:43PM

Thinking of these debates, I remember being incredibly angry at someone's email because he referred to certain Washington Politicians as Whores. I really got angry. He asked why I was offended about these politicians being insulted. I responded that I was deeply offended because he was offending Whores. Hard working, underpaid, unappreciated women and they have to be compared to this scum in D.C? Shameful.

Biff| 10.23.12 @ 4:45PM

Did not China just launch one of the world's largest aircraft carrier? Is it not true that over 50% of our nuclear capability is on board submarines? Are not these part of our navy, Mr President? Perhaps it's you who need a better understanding of the nature of our military.

Ralph Novy| 10.23.12 @ 6:18PM

"Two weeks from now, my opinion will be moot."

Nope, Robert, you don't have to wait.

Ralph Novy| 10.23.12 @ 6:22PM

Here's how Karl Rove began his Fox News commentary on the debate:

"We look at these debates principally when it comes to effecting our vote at the attitude, tone and sense of the debate and we also look at it in terms of the specifics of the debate."

Now, if you think that's a literate English sentence, run, don't walk, to your local elementary school and enroll in a remedial English class.

If you think Romney was rattled .....

LMAO

Bob Grant| 10.23.12 @ 8:56PM

((((Obama Phown, Obama Phown....keep obama in president!...you know?)))

I've got your literate English right here!!!

spike59| 10.24.12 @ 5:55AM

and????? does Rove's mangled sentence really matter, much like the inability of 'political genius' Donna Brazile, Democrat flack/'commentator' and former destroyer of Algore's 2000 campaign, to pronounce such words as 'ask', 'question', and 'specific?'

Papa | 10.23.12 @ 6:36PM

http://rightreactions.blogspot.....mm_23.html

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