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Campaign Crawlers
Marijuana Methodism
Thanks to a single retired minister, Rocky Mountain high takes on new meaning in Colorado.
Colorado is voting in November on whether to legalize marijuana for recreational use. It’s already permissible for ostensible medical reasons. Naturally many traditional religious leaders are opposing Amendment 64. But the Huffington Post quotes a United Methodist minister who supports a pot friendly Colorado.
“How we punish people and what we punish them for are central moral questions,” explained Rev. Bill Kirton, who is identified by HuffPo as being with Denver’s United Methodist church, though the article doesn’t explain which one. “If a punishment policy fails to meet its objectives and causes harms to humans, I believe we have a moral obligation to support change.”
Building on his argument that legalizing marijuana is a moral cause meriting clergy support, Rev. Kirton declared: “Our laws punishing marijuana use have caused more harm than good to our society and that is why I am supporting replacing marijuana prohibition with a system of strict regulation with sensible safeguards.”
And Rev. Kirton sermonized: “As we seek to teach compassion and love, it seems inconsistent to support, in cases of private personal adult marijuana possession, the use of police, guns, and courts.” After all, he said, “The faith community, parents, peers, and educators are the appropriate institutions in society to address this kind of personal behavior.”
Actually, although unmentioned in HuffPo, Rev. Kirton does not evidently pastor a church and is apparently retired from active ordained ministry. According to the group’s website, he currently works for the Rocky Mountain Employee Ownership Center, whose mission is to promote the “employee-ownership model as an important business option.” The group advocates “‘shared capitalism’ as a viable alternative to conventional notions of free enterprise.” And it espouses “democracy as an alternative to corporate rule.” Previously Rev. Kirton worked for the Interfaith Alliance, which is a Religious Left group founded in the 1990s to combat the Religious Right.
Rev. Kirton is among a group of about two dozen clergy publicly endorsing Colorado marijuana legalization. Almost all the signers are Unitarians or liberal Mainline Protestants. Nearly one third are United Methodist pastors. It’s probably safe to assume that none of them preside over any of Colorado’s larger congregations. There are also several Jewish rabbis, but no Catholic or Orthodox clergy.
“I do not support smoking pot. I do not like the stuff,” Rev. Kirton told the Associated Press, which identified him as a retired minister. “But the harm it does is much less than sending more and more people to prison. And I think it’s time to legalize marijuana.” The AP reported Kirton “chuckled that many of his former parishioners had probably tried marijuana.” Bu he lamented that most clergy find it difficult publicly to address marijuana legalization.
“A lot of pastors are, because of the toxic nature of current politics, they’re hesitant to speak out on issues,” Kirton told AP. “I think there’s some hesitancy to speak out, but I think most of my peers would agree with me.” In its official policy statements, the United Methodist Church urges “abstinence from the use of any illegal drugs,” which are cited as factors in “crime, disease, death, and family dysfunction.” Another church statement describes “marijuana as a “precursor to the use of other drugs” and urges abstinence from it unless legally prescribed for a medical condition. Although it supports “strong, humane law-enforcement efforts against the illegal sale of all drugs,” apparently there’s no specific denominational official stance for or against actual legalization. The absence of a stance is a little surprising, as Methodists were the original Prohibitionists. Undoubtedly most United Methodists would be a little stunned by one of their clergy publicly pushing for marijuana legalization.
Both the AP and HuffPo stories cited mostly evangelical clergy who are opposing Amendment 64 in Colorado. About 10 pastors spoke at an anti-legalization press conference this week. “Is this really what we want for children? I don’t think it is,” said one Denver pastor, according to AP, which described the ministers citing Colorado’s 12 years as a medical marijuana state with dire consequences. “We help folks with a medical marijuana card and have seen it being abused,” complained one pastor in the AP story. “We’ve seen it end up in the hands of children.”
Some of the quotes from anti-legalization clergy emphasize God’s disapproval of mind-altering drugs. The liberal clergy supporting Amendment 64 seem not to dispute the inadvisability of mind-altering drugs but think regulation of them like alcohol might more effectively control their use. The traditional clergy are on stronger ground when citing the already experienced abuse of medical marijuana laws. Stronger theological insights into what the civil state could and should ban versus regulate would be helpful.
Much of the pro-legalization side assumes a pseudo-libertarian perspective that wants law enforcement out of “personal” life. Clergy who believe in creating a more just and godly society need to argue for maintaining a healthy common culture of mutual responsibility that guards against vice without exceeding the state’s proper vocation.
Meanwhile, fiery old Methodist prohibitionists, from their dry heavenly mansions, may now be fretting over Rev. Kirton and his Colorado United Methodist clergy colleagues who’ve endorsed Amendment 64.
About the Author
Mark Tooley is president of the Institute on Religion and Democracy in Washington, D.C. and author of Methodism and Politics in the Twentieth Century. You can follow him on Twitter @markdtooley.
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nathan| 10.19.12 @ 7:41AM
Drug laws have led to gross violations of civil liberties and overcrowding of our prisons for no real good reason. It causes us to misallocate law enforcement resources that could be better used for dealing with truly violent crimes.
And consider, we outlaw marijuana and other drugs while the "legal" drug, alcohol, is advertised on TV, is readily available to our children, abusers of it kill three times more people every year on the highway than died in 911, and in some cases when an abuser crosses the center line and kills someone as the Cleveland Browns football player did, spend less time in jail than someone who like Michael Vick, killed animals. If we allow alcohol to be consumed legally and all the harm IT does to society, the cost has to be in the tens of billions of dollars maybe more, than make a case why we engage in a totally futile exercise to ban other drugs.
The policy should be, if you use and harm someone you never get out of jail, PERIOD. Be it whatever drug, if you're on it and cross the center line and someone gets hurt, you're going to die in prison. If you allow children access to your drug of choice and that includes alcohol go to jail do not pass go, they can bring your grandkids to visit you there. Otherwise, leave people alone. Easy simple, more room in prison to ensure that no rapes occur more police available to go after REAL bad guys.
Bob K| 10.19.12 @ 8:30AM
Legalized Dog Racing in Florida kills more dogs in a month than Vick did in his life.
Do you think maybe legalizing dog fighting might be the answer here too? If someone ends up getting harmed or killed while taking part in these activities the participants in the dog fights or at the dog tracks go to jail for life. How does that sound?
The Big E| 10.19.12 @ 10:03AM
"It causes us to misallocate law enforcement resources that could be better used for dealing with truly violent crimes."
Spend a few days in Court and see how many of these "truly violent crimes" - and I'm not including drug deals gone bad - are perpetrated by people who are abusing drugs or alcohol (which, as you note, is already legal).
And almost without exception, those violent offenders who were using crack or meth at the time, started the druggie carreers on pot when they were, oh, about 13 or 14. When the kiddie drug lost it's appeal, they just moved on to bigger and better things.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.19.12 @ 6:25PM
Remember though, many men of the cloth retire and still do weddings, funerals, etc-- they have more time and money to do so.
So perhaps the pastor is for real.
alphadoc| 10.20.12 @ 12:37PM
There is study after study that shows that exposure to marijuana in developing brains (that's up to age 22-25 by the way, the age at which myelinization/maturations of circuitry is completed) is extremely damaging, impairing cognitive as well as mood regulatory abilities. And here in Michigan since the "medical" marijuana laws came into being use in high schools has skyrocketed.
There is much evidence out there for the destructive effects of marijuana, whether you research it on a molecular, brain imaging or clinical psychiatric basis. It is mind-boggling to hear rational people discuss legalization. And to my libertarian brethren, you say we should be free to make this decision to use drugs or not, but what if using makes you NOT free to choose any longer because of addiction and deprives users of the ability to use reason well as a result? Marijuana is a massive public heath issue and the media are suppressing this fact.
Bob K| 10.19.12 @ 8:39AM
It's foolish, deceitful and delusional for anyone, especially the clergy, to advocate for Marijuana legalization without also making a case for "taxing and regulating the devil" out of it's production, sale and use just as Tobacco, Alchohol and Gambling are taxed and regulated.
C. S. P. Schofield| 10.19.12 @ 9:14AM
Marijuana should be legalized based simply on the long term effects of waging 'war' against it; the proliferation of warrants served by SWAT teams (sometimes to the wrong address), the piratical behavior of police forces vis-a-vis asset seizure, and so forth. Encouraging the State to tax the stuff is just asking for more of the trouble that legalization would alleviate.
I notice that many of the more ridiculous cases of Police overreach are connected to tobacco, alcohol, and gambling. I mean, busting up a VFW poker game (yet it happens)?
Furthermore, marijuana is a plant indigenous to North America. It isn't quite as hard to eradicate as poison ivy, but I'm told it runs close. Giving the State power to tax it is just ASKING for trouble.
Gary B| 10.19.12 @ 11:59AM
Couldn't agree more. Removing one more justification for the state to kill innocent people in their living rooms and confiscating property will always get my vote. And, I'm sure alcohol ruins far more lives and causes more property damage and death just on the highway than marijuana ever has.
OP4| 10.19.12 @ 12:13PM
Me too. I used to be a drug-warrior type. Too many people in jail for crimes that harmed nobody. Too many cops armed like soldiers attacking American citizens.
We gave up on alcohol prohibition - time to give it up on drug prohibition.
Occam's Tool| 10.19.12 @ 6:07PM
70% of the patients I hospitalize are THC positive when they come in. Data shows that modern Marijuana with modern THC concentrations can accelerate the rate of decompensation to and cause disease creation of schizophrenia in patients at risk of schizophrenia.
This is particularly bad among minority communities.
The Big E is correct. By the way, I am a practicing psychiatrist.
C. S. P. Schofield| 10.19.12 @ 8:26PM
If I had ever seen any evidence to suggest that the War on Drugs seriously impeded efforts of dopers to get their hands on pot your observations might be a point against legalization. Since I haven't, I have to say that I see no reason that we should compound the problems that dopers have by tossing them into prison.
I don't think Marijuana is harmless. I also don't think it is the place of government to protect the citizenry from harming themselves.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.19.12 @ 7:43PM
Marijuana isn't really a safe drug, but alcohol is the worst. I see college kids do calculus on Thursday, then get drunk on Friday night and get arrested for DUI. I saw one student grab a lady police officer's ponytail-- he went to jail for that and had to drop out, naturally.
Self destruction is what it is.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.19.12 @ 7:50PM
...potheads don't grab cops by the hair.
alphadoc| 10.20.12 @ 1:09PM
The alcohol argument is misguided and common. Yes alcohol is destructive for many. But humans have inherent ability to metabolize alcohol (alcohol is present in fruits and vegetables as a result of fermentation and is cleared by the liver at a rapid and consistent rate, slower in some gene pools).
Marijuana is not metabolized but cleared very slowly from the body as a toxin foreign molecule would be cleared. THC sits in fatty tissue (all over the body, and the brain is largely fat) for long periods and accumulates with regular use. Marijuana sits in the brain for weeks to months exerting some effects on all of the circuits. People will not feel intoxicated for this duration but they will be altered in subtle and not so subtle ways. Casual use of alcohol does not impair cognitive and mood function of humans, marijuana does. You should google the neuropsychological testing on marijuana users, very scary stuff especially in the young.
Bob K| 10.21.12 @ 7:22AM
CSP Schofield,
Your proposal do do this without taxation of the use, sale and production of Marijuana is politically impossible.
And your analogy is specious. Nobody goes to jail over VFW Poker games. And raids by state liquor control boards for gambling devices illegally used at licensed neighborhood bars are not conducted by "Swat Teams." But people go to jail all the time for use and possession of Marijuana and the jails of the USA are full of them and it costs a fortune to keep them there.
If these drugs are legalized users and purveyors of them will have to contribute tax monies to be used for the alleviation of the problems caused by the use of these drugs.
Better that these people go to jail for non payment of taxes than for use! The cost savings alone for our prison systems that would result from it is reason enough! This cannot possibly cause more trouble than what we have now from our current policies.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.19.12 @ 6:28PM
"....more room in prison to ensure...."
Which means more bloated dockets, judges, bloated attorneys, bloated donut-munching cops..."
There's no easy way.
Stan Redmond| 10.19.12 @ 10:39PM
I agree with AOFB on this issue. I'm not a blind partisan and stand on principle over "us versus them." As for his support of Obama. We're light years apart.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.21.12 @ 7:20PM
If he loses the debate tomorrow night, I wont vote for Obama, will change the handle to Alan Third Party Voter Brooks.
Mostly, I was extremely suprised Biden was so petty, he is a v. bright guy yet he acted like a sarcastic sneering HS senior who thinks he knows everything so he interrupts others in class including the teacher.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.21.12 @ 7:22PM
"I was extremely suprised"
Surprised. Even Nixon never did what Biden did..
MelvinNC| 10.19.12 @ 8:56AM
This is just great not only do we have to watch out for the drunken drink till they drop alcoholics on the highway, now we are going to have to be on the look out for the dumb and dumber crowd doing Cheech and Chong's rendition of smoking herb in a smoked filled vehicle.
People are not responsible enough to smoke Marijuana just at home, they are going to feel that it is their right to smoke dope whenever and wherever they want to include public places.
Now the question is, will the same rabid militant anti-smoking zealots go after the dope smokers in public the same way they went after the cigarette smokers?
C. S. P. Schofield| 10.19.12 @ 9:17AM
You already have to look out for doping drivers, at least as much as you are likely to. I really doubt that pot will jump much in popularity; there was a time when several states had laws against alcohol but not against pot (Iowa was one), and alcohol was still the main problem.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.19.12 @ 7:48PM
"there was a time when several states had laws against alcohol but not against pot (Iowa was one), and alcohol was still the main problem."
Well, sure, all you can do is reduce the dockets.
There aren't too many pollyannas at AS,
Schofield.
The Big E| 10.19.12 @ 9:10AM
"The consistent finding of an association between cannabis use and psychosis makes chance an unlikely explanation of the association, and there are also now a number of prospective studies showing that cannabis use often precedes psychosis."
That's from a study published in the June, 2008 edition of World Psychiatry. I've read several other studies drawing similar conclusions. I suspect we're just beginning to scratch the surface on understanding the damage marijuana does to the human brain.
I am not a psychiatrist. I am a criminal defense lawyer, and have been for 17 years, and have represented thousands of people who were regular pot users. When I started practicing, I supported legalization. After dealing with all those users for all those years, though, I not only oppose legalization, I support stronger laws against it's use. In my opinion, marijuana does more harm to it's users, especially to young people, than any drug I've seen except methamphetamine.
alphadoc| 10.20.12 @ 12:51PM
Another psychiatrist weighing in here. The new marijuana is 20-30 times stronger than even 10 years ago. Pharmacologially this changes everything... Think of this analogy, coke and crack are the same molecule but the latter reaches the brain much faster and at higher concentrations, which changes the addictive potential as well as the psychiatric effects of the drug.
We know that 25% of the population carries alleles of the COMT (catechol-o-methytransferase) gene that make them very susceptible to psychosis with exposure to marijuana, especially at these high concentrations. Has anyone else noted that the shootings in Colorado and in Arizona and the bizarre violence like the face-eating in Miami and elsewhere were committed by persons who had only marijuana in their systems at the time of the crime? These are people who carry genes for mental illness and when exposed to marijuana become psychotic but not just garden variety psychotic but violently so, beyond what we clinicians used to see in even the most severe paranoid schizophrenics. The new marijuana is not like a downer, it's like rocket fuel for psychosis. Functional MRI's of the brain reveal the identical pattern in meth users and high grade marijuana users.
Occam's Tool| 10.22.12 @ 12:42AM
Completely concur with you, alphadoc, as another psychiatrist who works with both meth addicts and high potency MJ users. No difference. In addition, K2 (synthetic cannabinoids) is worse than meth.
These "legalize it" posters have no idea what we're dealing with. Many drug users that I have treated who used bath salts and spice because it was legal at the time they used it, and therefore they stated to me, it couldn't be harmful.
Occam's Tool| 10.22.12 @ 12:43AM
Big E---COMPLETELY CONCUR WITH YOU, except the hydroponic MJ is as bad.
cowgirl| 10.19.12 @ 9:28AM
I am done with illegal drugs. Make them all legal. This will put thousands of drug cartel members out of work. BooHoo. Setup warehouse in various places throughout the US (much like how the whorehouses are in Nevada - in the middle of nowhere). Setup a buffet style drug outlet - all you can shoot up, smoke, inhale, sip, drink, whatever your posion is for $15.99. When you arrive you hand over your car keys to the people in charge and sign away any liability claims including any lawsuits from family or friends. Then gorge yourself on whatever drug you wish. You die - it is your problem no one else's. This keeps you off the street and protects law-abiding non-druggy citizens from whatever harm you as a druggy may inflict on innocent people. And before you druggies start complaining and point fingers at alcholics - yes we can close all the bars and send them to the warehouses also. No problem.
I am a Christian conservative person. I am done with addicts. You want to shoot up - go ahead be my guest. But you will not harm other people.
Nothing I can do to prevent an addict from their drug of choice. This idea decrimializes drugs and keeps innocent people who are not loser drug addicts out of harms way.
nathan| 10.19.12 @ 10:59AM
Madam:
As you see from my post, I'm not in serious disagreement with you. But I note you're a Christian. As the pastor of the church I go says, pass all the laws we want, does it change behavior? Not really. Change their lives by leading them to the Risen Savior, and while they don't become perfect, they are more likely to move away from actions that displease God. We are reminded when they had public executions for pick pockets, when one would happen drawing large crowds, other pick pockets would be in the crowds picking the pockets of the spectators. The law obviously had minimal effect on THEIR behavior.
But . . . change lives, and we can bring about change that way. And maybe the only way. Christians need to worry less about drug laws, more about evangelizing those who use those drugs. Lead people to Christ which we're supposed to be actively engaged in anyway, and much of this goes away without legislation.
Just a thought.
cowgirl| 10.19.12 @ 1:42PM
I hear what you are saying. No disagreement from me. However, God gives us a free will - to choose him or choose the devil which in this case is drugs. I have grown up and been around many many addicts - their drug choices are all different from alchol, weed, cocaine, sex, etc. You and I can approach them - we can lead them to the water, but we cannot make them change their lives ie, make them drink the healing waters of Jesus. It is their choice. Laws do make people behave - believers and as well as non-believers. You make drugs legal and many people will slide down the slippery slope and there will be lots of hurt familes and friends. God works in mysterious ways. He gives us adversity to make us stronger to depend solely on him. However, many are called and few are chosen.
The only thing I care about is that innocent people do not suffer from the legalization of drugs. I am sure God cares about that also.. Give these addicts want they desire most, but do so by protecting the innocent. People like me who want nothing to do with addictive culture. My bet is this - make it legal and it will eventually become less desirable and less of an issue - if everyone can do it then it becomes passe.....
nathan| 10.19.12 @ 3:21PM
Madam, you and I are more or less together here. I don't drink any alcohol whatsoever and the only drugs I take have a prescription on the label.
You're right we can present the message of Jesus to them but then we leave it to them and the Holy Spirit to work it out.
It's been a pleasure meeting you and talking to you. I wish you the absolute best. Thank you for brightening my day.
Occam's Tool| 10.19.12 @ 6:32PM
Legalize prostitution, and explain to your 3 year old children when you walk down Main Street in Rotorua New Zealand what a brothel is, because it is out in the open.
Been there, done that, no thanks, it sucks, confine it to Nevada. Plane fare is cheap to Nevada and the brothels are regulated there. NIMBY.
Legalize drugs and the epidemic of drug abuse among Black and Native American communities will get worse and more minorities will die. Sorry, but this GOP "Racist" has a problem with killing Blacks and Natives and their kids.
C. S. P. Schofield| 10.19.12 @ 8:30PM
I find it hard to believe that legalizing drugs, even ALL drugs, would harm the minority communities more than jailing a huge proportion of them for drug related offenses.
But, and I think a lot of people on both sides of the argument forget this, if we do something about the legal status of Marijuana and the results aren't to our liking we can always change the law back again.
Occam's Tool| 10.22.12 @ 12:38AM
Dear CSP: my question is this: do you work directly with these communities as a physician? I do. Every day, 12 days out of every 14, including alternate Sundays. I am telling you that you are wrong. I do agree that legal efforts should work less on giving these people a record or incarcerating them, and more on treating them, as data has shown that involuntary chemical dependency treatment is as effective as voluntary treatment.
In short, I agree with alphadoc.
But please keep in mind that I work directly with Natives from 3 reservations, and have also worked with the Maori. My experience with indigenous peoples is fairly vast.
Pony| 10.19.12 @ 10:02AM
I salute Rev. Bill Kirton for his sensible, realistic stance on the legalization of marijuana, a mild herb that is far, far less harmful than alcohol.
Kirton: "Our laws punishing marijuana use have caused more harm than good to our society and that is why I am supporting replacing marijuana prohibition with a system of strict regulation with sensible safeguards."
I cannot imagine anyone with good sense objecting to Rev. Kirton's statement.
Alcohol--sanctioned by our government-- is our most dangerous and destructive recreational drug, and the sellers of alcohol continue to get away with murder. Alcohol is big business, isn't it?
2Anglico| 10.19.12 @ 11:23AM
Alcohol=murder??? Sorry, not a convincing argument.
Occam's Tool| 10.19.12 @ 6:39PM
Pony:
No, no it isn't. Review the Christchurch studies, realize that I, as an expert on treating the Maori, can validate the findings in real life practice, and realize that the majority of my psychotic patients come in to my psychiatric hospital with THC on their urine drug screens.
Benign my board certified ass.
Denver Todd| 10.19.12 @ 10:35AM
As a Colorado resident, I can say that the state's medical marijuana system is a total charade. What was proposed as a way for a cancer patient to relieve suffering has turned into the way that weekend stoners get high. But keep in mind that while the old law and proposed new law change state treatment of possesion of marijuana, they still don't make it legal by federal law. So what does the system gain by dropping the charade? Maybe more customers. Warning to residents of states that don't have medical marijuana laws: the issue will start with sympathy for the sick, and you will be called hard-hearted if you vote no. A decade later, everyone will have an untreatable headache that needs this special care.
OP4| 10.19.12 @ 12:17PM
Why do you care who uses the marijuana? So you are willing to punish to cancer patient because you don't like the hippies? I don't like them either, but I don't care what they do as long as it isn't harming anyone.
Just let it go.
Occam's Tool| 10.19.12 @ 6:36PM
Marinol, THC in pill form, is legal and available for cancer and other chemotherapy (Hepatitis) patients. Having used it on my patients, I have not seen psychosis develop or seen them "get high." But it does help with nausea and appetite very well. It is a legal, Class III substance with minimal addictive potential, LEGAL in all 50 states and available by prescription. Why the fuss over "medical marijuana," therefore? Hmmm....
I leave the rest of this argument to my dear friend Big E, who can explicate it to the tune of Tal Bachman's "She's so High"....
2Anglico| 10.19.12 @ 11:21AM
State's Rights, what a concept!
Who Knows?| 10.19.12 @ 11:45AM
Words used to mean something.
With that in mind, the never ending marijuana story continues to be infected by the confusion between two of them.
There is a difference between “legalize” and “decriminalize”.
It seems to me that “legalize” is affirmative. That is, if you legalize it, you indicate that society says it’s OKAY to use.
However, to decriminalize it seems to mean that society is neutral, neither approving nor disapproving its use.
That said, given the fallen state of humans, and the fact that grass exists, it is just dumb to make it illegal.
An enlightened society would make it like hard liquor, perhaps. Tax the hell out of it, and force users to buy it at government stores.
luv2ski| 10.19.12 @ 2:27PM
Apparently we learned nothing from American Prohibition. Apparently the only difference between conservative statists and the progressive statists is the social engineering goals we wish to achieve. We both sacrifice individual liberty on the alter of the collective "good" by criminalizing victimless behavior. We both reap the whirlwind of unintended consequences. Just like the left, when our "war on drugs" fails, we demand more liberty be sacrificed to further empower the state.
The failure of Prohibition led directly to the National Firearms Act of 1934 (now Title 2 of the 1968 GCA) which guts the second amendment and enacted federal gun registration that survives to this day.
The failure of the war on drugs led directly to RICO - an anti-racketeering law that makes a mockery of the presumption of innocence. RICO economically strangles the accused before they can even start to prepare for trial. We were told that it would only be used against the mob. That was a lie. Ask the average Florida home appraiser victimized by politically ambitious federal prosecutors during the S&L crisis.
Both the NFA and RICO are massive expansions of federal authority including jurisdictional supremacy on intrastate crimes - effectively eviscerating the tenth amendment.
JD| 10.19.12 @ 4:29PM
"Conservative statist" is an oxymoron. Leftists, who insist that everyone who disagrees with them on anything is conservative, push the lie that statists whose goals don't align with theirs serve as evidence that "the right" is totalitarian, even as they also accuse us of the contradictory goal of anarchy.
Don't abide such lies. If someone attempts to use the state to socially engineer, he is being left-wing. Period. That two left-wingers disagree as to the goals of the engineering is immaterial.
C. S. P. Schofield| 10.19.12 @ 8:33PM
I agree with a lot of your post, with one exception; too goddamned many people who consider themselves 'Conservative' and will argue that they hate social engineering, reflexively defend the drug laws. The drug laws, like Prohibition, are attempts at social engineering. A pox on them for that reason alone.
Stan Redmond| 10.19.12 @ 3:25PM
I find it amusing that the state and proponents of marijuana legalization insist they can tax and regulate it. We've spent trillions of dollars on a "war on drugs" and it's still smoked all over the place.
Let's just be realistic. Legalize it will, free up law enforcement resources, and give back some sense of individual liberty and states rights.
C. S. P. Schofield| 10.19.12 @ 8:37PM
And, as I have suggested elsewhere, the idea of taxing the product of a plant that grows like (you should pardon the expression) a week all over North America, and which can (demonstrably) survive the gardening efforts of stoners, is laughable.
Bob K| 10.21.12 @ 3:43PM
Tobacco originally grew wild in America until it was domesticated and sold as an agricultural cash crop. The same thing will happen to marijuana once it becomes legalized. Users will always pay for the best stuff making the manufacturers of the product millionaires.
As tobacco's use lessens it will eventually revert to it's wild state. It still can easily be grown from seed for personal use but that is also illegal.
Stan Redmond| 10.19.12 @ 10:36PM
Amen brother. I don't partake of the stuff. but I do know potheads and I do not find them threatening and in fact they run succesful small businesses. In the state I'm in you can't buy beer on a Sunday, but head down to the local skate park and you can get all the pot you want.
C. S. P. Schofield| 10.20.12 @ 2:26PM
I've known stoners and I've known Prohibitionists. The stoners are better company, and you have to watch your wallet around both types.
Occam's Tool| 10.22.12 @ 12:39AM
Again, what is the problem with using Marinol?