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A Further Perspective
Style to Ryan, Substance to Ryan
Biden was good but he lost on both.
The pop-up wisdom among the pundits immediately following the vice-presidential debate is that Paul Ryan won on style and it was a draw on substance. (The exception is MSNBC, where the main anchors are still covered in champagne.)
The style half is certainly true. Joe Biden came off as a loony, condescending vulgarian, grinning smugly during Ryan’s answers, rolling his eyes, interrupting constantly. There was a telling moment at the beginning of the debate when Ryan was trying to discuss the president’s foreign policy. “With all due respect, that’s a bunch of malarkey,” Biden jumped in. On CNN, where they had swing voters hooked up to approval dials, Biden’s rating plummeted.
Another low point came when Ryan was discussing how cutting taxes and broadening the base had worked in the past. He cited President Kennedy’s tax breaks as an example. “Oh so now you’re Jack Kennedy? This is amazing!” Biden said. He constantly cut into Ryan’s substantive arguments with cheap sneers and one-liners. By the end, he sounded like one of the old-man Muppets that sit in a balcony above the show and lob down smarmy remarks.
This had to be intentional. Biden is capable of controlling himself in an argument. His interactions with Sarah Palin four years ago were much more restrained. But after Obama’s passive performance in the last debate, restraint wasn’t the order of the day. The liberal base wanted blood and the vice president had to provide what the president couldn’t.
But Biden overshot by an Irish mile. The idea that throughout all the grinning and leering and sighing and harrumphing and eye-rolling, any independent voter anywhere was thinking Gosh, I’m glad this guy is my vice president is ridiculous. No doubt someone told Biden he needed to be tough before the debate. But he went too far and seemed smaller than his office.
On substance, Biden exceeded the low expectations that followed the president’s abysmal performance last week. He rattled off facts, knew what he was talking about, and genuinely stumped Ryan on a couple issues. During the shout-match on eastern Afghanistan, he came out on top by making it a choice between sending more Americans or Afghanis to die.
Much of the debate came down to wonk warfare, with the candidates feuding over a detail of tax policy or a CBO conclusion. Biden held his own in these dogfights.
But that doesn’t mean he won the substance contest. Independents won’t be casting votes on the basis of an American Enterprise Institute study that the candidates disputed. The macro mattered more than the micro, and Ryan won the macro.
There was a consistent narrative to Ryan’s arguments. On economics, it was: the Obama Administration told us they’d revive the economy, they tried to do so through a massive expansion of government, and it didn’t work. On foreign policy, it was: the president has been weak around the world and we’re worse off today, whether it’s with Iran increased nuclear capabilities or the recent haplessness with our embassies in the Middle East.
Ryan then drove the point home near the end by ticking off the president’s broken promises. He brought up the debt crisis and blasted the administration. “Leaders run to problems to fix problems,” he said. “President Obama has not even put a credible plan on the table in any of his four years to deal with this debt crisis.” All the Crest dental strips in Biden’s medicine cabinet can’t white out that simple fact.
“That’s what we get in this administration: speeches,” Ryan continued. “But we’re not getting leadership.” He probably meant that as a dig at Barack Obama, but it also applied to Biden’s debate performance. Biden came better armed than the president, but he mostly gave loud, chest-thumping, finger-pointing, eye-bulging speeches at Ryan, Martha Raddatz, the viewers, “all you senior citizens out there,” the world.
Ryan stayed calm, kept his cool, and stuck to the substance of his arguments. He made his points and told his story while Biden bounced across the room. And it worked for him.
It’s hard to say which way swing voters will lean. According to a CNN survey released an hour after the debate, 48% of respondents thought Ryan won and 44% thought Biden won, within the margin of error. But Joe Biden’s goal wasn’t just to win. He also needed to swing momentum back to the Democrat ticket. And thanks to Ryan’s crisp steadiness, he came up short.
About the Author
Matt Purple is The American Spectator’s assistant managing editor.
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Aristocat| 10.12.12 @ 6:44AM
An opportunity lost....A good debater would have taken crazy Joe apart.
Ryan should have called out the moderator.
He should have called out Biden. He got lost in details and failed to present the big picture.
C. Vernon Crisler | 10.12.12 @ 10:42AM
It's likely that the Romney team wanted Ryan to defend Romney and attack Obama. So that's what he did. Most of us would have liked to see Ryan go after Biden's record, and skewer that old Progressive fool, but that was not the strategy. The strategy was to reassure Independents, and I think Ryan did that pretty well, whereas Biden did not give any reasons for Independents to vote for Obama.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.12.12 @ 8:08PM
Ryan at least stands for something; while Romney only really stands for Romney, the most opportunistic candidate since Willie Stark (and you oldtimers know who he was).
C. Vernon Crisler | 10.12.12 @ 10:17PM
Look, I don't like Romney all that much, but if he's not elected, it means Obamacare goes into effect.
TLP| 10.12.12 @ 4:14PM
CNN - Ryan 48%. Simple Simon 44%.
CNN!
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.12.12 @ 8:11PM
Biden acted like an assh@le, and if you quack like a duck then you most likely are a duck.
But I'd rather bring Nixon back to life and vote for him, than vote for Romney. Heck I'd rather bring Gerald Ford back to life...
TheSteelGeneral| 10.12.12 @ 9:24PM
Yes, CNN.
Ooooh NOW all of a sudden CNN is "good"???
But when they expose the truth about you guys, being the liars that you are, CNN is the "left wing msm"?? gimme a break here.
TLP| 10.13.12 @ 9:13AM
CNN IS the Left Wing MSM.
That's the point, @ssfck.
TLP| 10.13.12 @ 9:21AM
I should clarify that.
I wasn't talking to You, Albertdoyousellacorkthatwillfitinmyass.
I was talking to this New @ssfck.
The Steel General, which undoubtedly has something to do with Erections.
Hence - The @ssfck label.
Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 10.13.12 @ 6:32PM
If Ryan is so good then you ought to have nominated him for president.
Joellen| 10.12.12 @ 7:22AM
You know that saying "actions speak louder than words". During one of Joe's rant, I was watching Ryan who remained quiet and allowed the American People to witness what was before us. "Ladies and Gentlemen - this is your current VP; are you scared yet"? It worked!
Aristocat| 10.12.12 @ 7:34AM
Crazy Joe has the whitest dentures I have ever seen.
I had to wear sunglasses to watch him. He has a turkey neck when you see him from the side. But his hair plugs have held up pretty good. Thank you, Bosley.
Von Mises Jr| 10.12.12 @ 7:43AM
When your enemy is committing suicide, get out of the way.
As a sales executive for many years, one understands that people have very limited comprehension and concentration. The adage is "tell them what you are going to tell them, tell them and then tell them what you told them. Do this three times and sometimes the light goes off in their heads and you can see in their eyes they stopped thinking about the next question or other issues and actually understood the value proposition.
Paul Ryan was calm and methodical while "Bite Me" was like the Beatle's song "Helter Skelter."
People will more likely remember Ryan ticking off Obama's failures and broken promises one by one, while the only thing "Bite Me" will leave behind is confusion and distain for a doting old fool.
John Navratil| 10.12.12 @ 8:46AM
Von Mises Jr,
I am reminded of Adlai Stevenson when a woman shouted "Senator, you have the vote of every thinking person!". Stevenson replied "That's not enough, madam, we need a majority!"
Biden's performance was a predictable as the seasons. For that matter, so was Ryan's. He didn't disappoint, but would couldn't help but hope for a long ball.
Al Adab| 10.12.12 @ 9:41AM
This performance actually did all the citizens a favor. We saw clearly the character and substance of each man. One has a good command of facts and policy implications; the other intimidates and silences his opposition and is, in todays' parlance, a bully.
An old tactic of radical minorities is to outshout the opposition. When ones' policies and beliefs have no substance, volume serves to cover up the vacuum.
CJW| 10.12.12 @ 11:26AM
It is impossible to have a rational debate with Biden. He is a loon. Ryan did the right thing by sticking to the facts and not engage in a shouting match with town drunk.
He was in training for one week with the sole purpose to attack and call Romney a liar. At least Biden has the balls to act like a jerk and call them liars to their face, Obama the sissy sends out Biden and little girls like DebbieWS, Stepahnie Cutter, Chris Matthews, and purpie to do his dirty work.
Von Mises Jr| 10.12.12 @ 11:35AM
Obama could not debate Mitt since his linguistic tricks and fallacies of irrelevance would be exploded by a truly brilliant opponent. Straw man arguments using ambiguity and equivocal choices, non sequiturs and vicious abstraction would be destroyed by Mitt.
So they apparently feel that their only option is to try and yell over the facts. Now they have revealed their tactics. I don't think Mitt will be so gracious next week in the Second Presidential (or in Obama's case non-presidential) Debate.
TLP| 10.12.12 @ 9:42AM
Contest.
Berkley.
Pornos.
Old Guy | 10.12.12 @ 2:41PM
The mental picture remaining after the "debate" was that of an unfortunate mentally deficient man who giggles and makes faces while a doctor tries to tell him of potential terminal illness.
TLP| 10.12.12 @ 7:57AM
Joellen. Cover your eyes.
What we saw last night, was exactly what we knew we would see.
A good Debator - in Paul Ryan - who came to this forum with Facts, Figures, Integrity, Poise and Grace. He didn't Interrupt. He wasn't Rolling his Eyes, or Waving his Arms. And he wasn't Spitting on the other two when he talked like last Year's Valedictorian of Al Gore's Debate School was all night.
On the other side, we pretty much got what we thought we would get from Senator Terrets.
We got a Masterdebator.
A guy who was squirming in his seat all night like Pee Wee Herman at a Double Feature.
Always interrupting. Always being Antsy. Smiling, with that leering smile that must have had every Psychiatry Intern scribbling frantically in their Note books.
And, when he rolled his eyes?
I'm pretty sure that was when he Chris Mathewsed in his pants, right on the stage.
Okay.
You can open your eyes now, Joellen.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 10.12.12 @ 8:14AM
I think it is time to rack them up for the contest.
TLP| 10.12.12 @ 9:45AM
What are you waiting for.
Get thee to a Nunnery.
Preferably, one in Berkley.
TLP| 10.12.12 @ 9:46AM
Rack'em up!
Joellen| 10.12.12 @ 3:10PM
Not to worry Tim, I am a big girl!
TLP| 10.12.12 @ 4:16PM
Get to the Contest, Big Girl.
And, bring money. (Hat Tip - Michael Eisner on Family Guy)
Aristocat| 10.12.12 @ 8:06PM
Smiling, with that leering smile that must have had every Psychiatry Intern scribbling frantically in their Note books.
That's a good one...Could be the best line of the day.
LarryK| 10.12.12 @ 9:06AM
Joe Biden, a brain cell away from the Presidency.
Use it wisely Joe, yours are in very short supply.
Anthony| 10.12.12 @ 9:31AM
"No, Joe, I don't pretend to be Jack Kennedy, like you pretended to be Neil Kinnock".
KyMouse| 10.12.12 @ 1:20PM
Anthony, I don't know what the "contest - Berkley" cognoscenti think, but you're my winner for your Neil Kinnock reference. More people need to remember what Biden did back then.
TLP| 10.12.12 @ 4:18PM
Get over to The Contest, KyMouse.
Go to the Story on Berkeley.
You will not be sorry.
Join us.
TLP| 10.12.12 @ 4:19PM
And, Neil Kinnock would not win.
Not even close.
PolishKnight| 10.12.12 @ 10:13AM
When having discussions and arguments with my leftist friends, this is precisely how they behave. When they're saying something, they drone on and on and spout off 10 things and I let them have their say and I'm very respectful. Then when I say my points back, they interrupt me before I have even addressed their first point. Then they go and try to say 10 more things. Then they complain I'm interrupting them and I'm a "rude bigot." They think at the end of the conversation that they won.
I'm sure others here have had the same experience.
Even as the left originated with marxism which regarded religion either as an "opiate of the masses" or intolerant bigotry, their whole philosophy is as loaded with dogma and conformity as much as that albino monk guy in The Da Vinci code.
William L. Gensert| 10.12.12 @ 10:21AM
Biden leaned heavily on:
"Middle class, middle class, middle class..."
"47%, 47%, 47%..."
"My friend says, my friend will, my friend believes..."
...It wasn't long before it was obvious he was not using "friend" affectionately.
PolishKnight| 10.12.12 @ 4:09PM
Ryan should have had a good comeback ready for those (and simultaneously to boot). For 47% and "middle class", he should have observed that most in the middle class pay taxes and therefore his policies are about putting them to work. He should have then added that a decent paying job is better than a welfare check. This would be a casual, subconscious dig against something the left howled about when television ads noted Obama handing out waives for welfare to work requirements.
Texasyahoo| 10.12.12 @ 10:30AM
.....and Biden is a heartbeat away from the Prisidency? A frightening thought. Despite the constant state run media (For years) spin on "Good old Joe," the man is basically a fool - and a liar. Ryan, unfortunately, had to "Debate" two people at once....Biden and the harridan "Moderator." Obviuuslt, the Raddatz creature had been brought out of obscurity to "Moderate," been given her marching orders to aid and abet Biden, etc. What was she primised? To eventually become an anchor at ABC? The first thing she should have been promised should have been a bath, decent clothing, etc. When that "Mess" appeared on my screen I was shocked. How could anyone appear on national TV looking like that? Talk about a "Used" look.
Bill8472| 10.12.12 @ 12:10PM
I think the appropriate term is "hag."
TheSteelGeneral| 10.12.12 @ 9:19PM
Hag?? Really? and then you wonder why you people lose the women vote by 10-20 points ... and not win the men vote by just as much.
Bill8472| 10.15.12 @ 9:21AM
Most women would NEVER consider that anyone is talking about them as individuals when one is characterized as a hag.
Butch| 10.12.12 @ 3:39PM
She looked like she'd been "rode hard and put up wet," didn't she Tex?
PolishKnight| 10.12.12 @ 10:33AM
Even before the debate, it appears that some people are "getting it":
http://www.foxnews.com/enterta.....p=features
My jaw dropped. Lindsay Lohan? A Hollywood train wreck who loved Obama 4 years ago and now has a change of heart? She's a symbol of hollywood leftism: Partying on cheap money (just show up, even if not sober, for a movie or tv set and collect your check. Charlie Sheen couldn't pull that off) and then loving leftist and marxist principles in order to not lose your job.
Yet, Lindsay, despite her problems, now sees "the light". Amazing. If _she_ can get it, imagine what's going out there in the rest of America and even the ivory towers.
TheSteelGeneral| 10.12.12 @ 9:20PM
It's truly a wonderful time, the day that repubs think Lindsey Lohan is a role model for them. That will put you on the wrong side of the "that beeyatch!!"-vote
Bill8472| 10.12.12 @ 12:09PM
Yes, Biden scored a palpable hit when he talked about Afghans doing the resistance against subversion instead of our troops. It's too bad Mr. Ryan didn't think to say that the Afghan troops are also shooting our troops and that we can't trust them to resist the Taliban.
Of course, if Mr. Ryan had said that, it would have undermined his position that it's a good thing that our troops remain in Afghanistan when our enemy (and, it appears, our friends) know when we're leaving and know they only have to wait us out. Ryan DID bring that consideration up.
WhiteBikerTrash| 10.12.12 @ 3:36PM
The final reports are in! Even the MSM agrees Joe Biden wiped the floor!!!
With Joe Biden!
FiddlerBob| 10.12.12 @ 3:57PM
Biden clearly illustrated one of the greatest problems that thinking Americans have with him and Obama. They can both talk, talk, talk. But they don't listen.
Real leadership listens. Obama and company are so married to their own philosophies and ideas that they can't hear any other. And, as Biden so effectively demonstrated, they're quite condescending and rude about it. This presents a great barrier to the effective, bipartisan communication and problem solving that our country needs right now.
Biden's constant repetition of Mitt's 47% verbal blunder was quite hypocritical in light of Obama's actions. Obama has completely rejected over 50% of our population by completely dissing and ignoring our elected representatives. When they came to him to express our wishes he just told them, "I won." -the inference being "get lost, losers.!" Hey, our representatives are OUR VOICES. How dare he dismiss us?
Through Obamacare he rejected 76% of the people, crammed his unread bill down our throats without honoring his promised 5 day review period. He had to have it passed immediately. Then he left town to party, play golf, or raise money instead of staying in the Oval office to immediately sign his bill. "Suckers!"
Now he's busy covering up for the deaths of an Ambassador, Border Patrol agents, hundreds of Mexican citizens and others because he was too busy to read the memos or listen to calls for help.
When he asks for our vote, we need to say, "Sorry, I can't hear you!"
gene| 10.12.12 @ 4:47PM
The First Debate Mistake?
President Obama did not show up.
The Second Debate Mistake?
Vice President Biden did show up.
An Old Man ranting "They have no missles" over and over and over.
They do have missiles, Joseph, but
IT DOES NOT MATTER.
1. One Suicide Bomber.
2. One Nuclear Warhead.
3. One Suitcase.
Do the Math, Joseph, use some COMMON SENSE 101, and realize like the rest of the Grownups in the U.S. of A., they do not NEED a missle.
What part of this do you not understand, Joseph?
And either you or the State dept. reps are lying?
Let's hear you repeat your B.S. under oath.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
TheSteelGeneral| 10.12.12 @ 9:16PM
AS IF style matters!
Will style matter, when a Romney presidency allows Wall St. AGAIN to bamboozle the American people?
Will style matter, when a Romney presidency raids Medicare to give our taxdollars to himself?
Never trust a man who lowers his own taxes (romney) to increase yours.
Obama has been saying out loud and consistently: I will RAISE MY taxes, and lower yours.
Also, on taxes: Romney keeps saying, raising the taxes on the rich will not pay for the deficit, so let's not do it, AT ALL. That makes no sense. 800 billion that will come out the uber wealthy might be pocket change to elitists like Romney, but to us normal people, we don't have lying around anytime soon.
Moody’s Chief Economist On Romney’s Tax Plan: ‘The Arithmetic Doesn’t Work’
http://thinkprogress.org/econo.....-tax-plan/
FiddlerBob| 10.13.12 @ 12:14PM
Obama's promises are only interesting to those with the attention span of a gnat. Yes, he promises all kinds of goodies. But, what he does is often quite the opposite. And, much of what he does is unconstitutional - a document he has sworn under oath to preserve, protect, and defend.
Obama has shown that he has no regard for our Constitution or We the People. He is lazy and self absorbed. He doesn't listen to or respect anyone with any opinion other than his own. He can not recognize any connection between his policies and their failures. He is a remorseless con man of the highest order, a complete and total fraud.
Style may not matter as much as substance, nor should it. But actions also speak louder than words. Obama's actions are dangerous to our Constitutional Republic, our Common Defense, and the General Welfare of the Union.
It's time to wake up and stop playing party politics. This is not the Redskins vs the Cowboys where we can afford to blindly root for our favorite sports team. This is not a game. This is our future, the future of our children, and the future of this Republic.
gene| 10.13.12 @ 10:08AM
" Biden not know....
Biden only pawn in the game of life...."