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Another Perspective
Neoconservatives With Crowbars
A response to David Brooks.
It’s become fashionable in certain center-right circles to argue that small-government conservatism has gained too much power. Tea Party economics, the grievance goes, would seismically shift our social contract and cast everyone onto the choppy waves of the free market. It is, therefore, little better than radicalism.
David Frum usually leads this argument and, judging by his writings, you’d think he was practically alone, heroically steering his starship through a Delta Quadrant teeming with Tea Party marauders. If Frum is the captain, then New York Times columnist David Brooks is his number one. Brooks wrote a piece back in 2007 arguing that it was time for the Republican Party to jettison its limited government wing. Liberty arguments, Brooks declared, weren’t germane to the challenges faced by modern America.
Then the economy crashed, the stimulus failed, the national debt skyrocketed, the government helped pump up a student loan bubble, and the technocratic calculations made in Obamacare started to unravel. And yet Brooks is back with another column contending that economic conservatives have too much influence.
His thesis is that the fusion of traditional conservatism and libertarianism has lost its stick, with economic conservatives seizing all the power. He’s right to an extent. The right’s small-government strain is ascendant right now, expressed most lucidly by the Tea Party. But there’s a very good reason for that. Today’s political challenges are primarily fiscal in nature and the federal government is the biggest offender.
Russell Kirk rightly identified conservatism as a state of mind rather than an ideology or set of principles. But conservatism must also respond to the challenges of its day. Our most critical test is the skyrocketing national debt bloated by entitlement costs and a refusal to cut government spending. Conservatism must offer solutions and the Tea Party has.
Brooks cites Kirk in his piece (or, more specifically, cites Rod Dreher who cites Kirk) and outlines his version of traditional conservatism:
Because they were conservative, [traditionalists] tended to believe that power should be devolved down to the lower levels of this chain. They believed that people should lead disciplined, orderly lives, but doubted that individuals have the ability to do this alone, unaided by social custom and by God. So they were intensely interested in creating the sort of social, economic and political order that would encourage people to work hard, finish school and postpone childbearing until marriage.
He then contrasts this with modern conservatism in which “shrinking government” is “the organizing conservative principle.” “They have taken control,” he writes ominously.
Have they? Is Frank Meyer’s fusion of traditionalism and libertarianism really coming unglued?
Let’s take a look at the vanguard of today’s shrink-the-state movement: the Tea Party. While condensing government is the theme at any Tea Party rally, its members are social conservatives as well. Brooks pines for a conservatism in which individuals need “social custom and…God.” But research shows that Tea Partiers are more united by their common Christian conservatism than almost any other factor.
Like any movement, the Tea Party has its sharp edges and conspiracy theories. Its leaders occasionally quote the radical Thomas Paine. But the group has very little in common with the anarchic Jacobinism that characterizes many revolutions. Instead it’s closer to the Spirit of ‘76, that rare energy that demands established liberty rather than upheaval. Tea Partiers aren’t trying to overthrow America’s government or desecrate its monuments. They’re driven by a deep respect for tradition which they believe is being trampled by an activist government. That was the foundation for the American Revolution, supported by Edmund Burke, the father of traditional conservatism.
Today’s economic conservatives don’t want to overthrow order, but devolve it back to local governments and voluntary institutions. Despite some objectivist hat-tipping, they’re much more Friedrich Hayek than Ayn Rand; more Calvin Coolidge than Gary Johnson.
Brooks’ mistake, I think, is to confuse economic conservatism with a type of pure-market libertarianism unmoored from any tradition or order. It’s a distinction recognized by none other than Russell Kirk in his lecture A Dispassionate Assessment of Libertarians:
[A] number of the men and women who accept the label “libertarian!’ are not actually ideological libertarians at all, but simply conservatives under another name. These are people who perceive in the growth of the monolithic state, especially during the past half century, a grim menace to ordered liberty; and of course they are quite right.
That describes today’s economic conservatives. The old bonds of fusionism have held pretty well after all.
About the Author
Matt Purple is The American Spectator’s assistant managing editor.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (118) | Leave a comment
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Appleby| 9.28.12 @ 7:17AM
The fastest growing churches around the world are the conservative, back to basics churches that understand Christ's mandate was an individual one, not a corporate one: when He said "Feed My Sheep" he meant you, and him, and your sisters and brothers and your Mom and your teenaged daughter -- not The Foundation For Good Deeds or The Department of Charity. The convents and monestaries that are outgrowing the space they have are the ones that require the wearing of habits and the attention to the Great Commission. The writing has been on the wall for 40 years.
nathan| 9.28.12 @ 7:39AM
To follow up, the Good Samaritan parable "go and do likewise" is a personal injunction. He wasn't telling them at the time to tell the Romans (who ruled Palestine) to raise taxes. This was clearly an individual mandate. You would be hard pressed to find support for a "Robin Hood" approach to charity in the Bible.
And again the Founders absolutely understood this. "Noblise Oblige" they pushed all the time. But Madison was clear, charity had no place in the legislative process. In large part because government programs especially at the federal level are always going to be filled with waste fraud and mismanagement. You simply get more value either at the local level or with private charity.
And finally let's be clear here, "compassionate conservatism" is an oxymoron. It's liberalism pure and simple and should have been understood that way. He should never have been nominated based on that alone and policies like that are among the many reasons why he may be among the five worst presidents in history, certainly among the 10 worst.
Frank Drackman| 9.28.12 @ 8:40AM
David Brooks reminds me of every Bass-Weejun Loafer wearing Homo from College in the 80's.
Pleated Dockers, button down shirt, Michael Fox hair, what am I forgetting??
Oh yeah, the Ramada Inn coffee cup they'd drink from(and I'd ball walk when they weren't looking)in the Library, where Food und Trank wurde streng Verboten!
Why so bitter? you ask?
Cause the ones who didn't have the balls to kill themselves after the 87' crash, the 00' crash, the 08' crash, went into Healthcare administration, where they make my life miser-ab-le to this day.
And I can't ball-walk there coffee cups, cause they don't mingle with the Hoy-Polloy, so I'm reduced to sticking Confederate Flag bumperstickers on there Bentley's, and then only when the Security guy isn't looking.
Seriously, if that Joker guy in Colorado shot a theater full of Hospital Administrators, he'd walk like OJ did(the first time)
Frank "I Hate Suits" Drackman
Von Mises Jr| 9.28.12 @ 9:13AM
Frank, you are forgetting that he is holding hands (in public) with Barney Frank. In private, more like kissing the Blarney Stone.
I have read Kirk, Burke, Hayek and Rand mentioned by the author, and Brooksie (hey maybe he is out old troll Brooksie?) is not capable of slipping on their loafers, no less tie their shoes. His brilliance is musing over Mr. "Eye Candy" and his crease in his pants. I think he was watching to see if his pants got stuck in his crack to get a better look at his prey.
CJW| 9.28.12 @ 11:45AM
Von
Brooks and Frum are recognized as conservatives only by the Dems and the NY Times.
GWB's compassionate conservatism is essentially the same as JFK's and LBJ's blend of the War on Poverty and involving the USA in foreign wars to establish democracy and nation build. Worked great in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan.
The Tea Party is conservative/libertarian in its idea to cut taxes and reduce the government by eliminating agencies, departments, and some of it powers.
The central idea is leave us alone, whereas the Dems and compassionate Reps believe they can run your life. better than you.
Von Mises Jr| 9.28.12 @ 2:03PM
You’re preaching to the choir, brother. I am reading Hayek "Law, Legislation and Liberty" and Arendt's "On Revolution" right now.
You didn't need to tell me Brooksie and Frump was faux-conservatives.
Grzmlyk| 9.28.12 @ 2:40PM
They're ESTABLISHMENT conservatives - i.e., Republicans that Democrats can live with.
They're all on the same damn team - again, I apologize for recycling this analogy, but it is so apt: Today's politics is like WWF. yes, the combatants (Repubs and Dems) tussle for the cameras and occasionally there is not much difference between the pretend fighting and the real fighting.
But the same people sign their paychecks. They belong first to the fraternity of Beltway denizens, and second to the popular kids' cocktail party circuit (think Sally Quinn).
With a very few exceptions (and those exceptions are immediately ostracized and ridiculed) they are all seeking to keep their own nests feathered.
Bob K| 9.29.12 @ 4:14PM
You are correct! 100%! And at those cocktail parties they are eaters of brie and sippers of white wine and sniffers from the little spoons of the contents in the silver bowls on the Grand Pianos!
Bob K| 9.29.12 @ 4:14PM
You are correct! 100%! And at those cocktail parties they are eaters of brie and sippers of white wine and sniffers from the little spoons of the contents in the silver bowls on the Grand Pianos!
Bob K| 9.29.12 @ 4:14PM
You are correct! 100%! And at those cocktail parties they are eaters of brie and sippers of white wine and sniffers from the little spoons of the contents in the silver bowls on the Grand Pianos!
Bob K| 9.29.12 @ 4:14PM
You are correct! 100%! And at those cocktail parties they are eaters of brie and sippers of white wine and sniffers from the little spoons of the contents in the silver bowls on the Grand Pianos!
Moe Blotz| 9.30.12 @ 10:11AM
Oy Frank, were those college blokes you describe the same ones who tied something tubular to the inside of their thighs to make it look like a hanging tenderloin? Some of them used to stuff their y-fronts with cotton or paper towels to enhance the look of their "package".
sweatyfederalist | 9.28.12 @ 9:37AM
I might actually bother to read David Brooks if he admitted what he really is, i.e., the last living conservative Democrat. Then instead of hounding us Tea Partiers, he can needle away at the hardened socialists and nanny-staters that have captured his party.
pogybait| 9.28.12 @ 9:56AM
The majority of the people know based on their day-to-day experiences that the current crop of people who they relied upon to lead the country have failed and are tired with the constant effort to alter, condition, accommodate, convert, modify, restyle, reshape, warp, invert, swap, transpose, or bend the public perception of reality with good intentions or slogans. Not only has the truth been exposed, showing many people the aims of the Democrat party, it has also exposed the weaknesses of the Republicans as well. The populist revolts are just the beginning of what will come if the leaders of both parties choose to ignore the basic angst of the American people.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 10:01AM
If I had a nickel for everytime I was ridiculed for tying this Mulatto with The End Times? I could buy a Time Machine and go back to the Past and pay for an Abortion for all of the Brain Addled Obama D*cklickers on this site.
Now, everybody's getting in on the Act. Even Miss Canada. She's out there, every day now, rehashing what I've been pointing out for TWO YEARS.
That's okay. At least She's paying attention, and that's why Her Underpants (Bloomers) will be the Prize for Today's Contest Winner. (I'm actually using them to cover my Mowers right now, but I'll clean'em up, fresh as a Daisy.)
On with the Show!
Once again, we are confronted with one more Smartes Guy in the Room, who DOESN'T GET IT. (I call it - O'Reilly Syndrome.
Mr. Kengor actually thinks that all of this Sh*t that's going down in Murder World, is because Hamas' Deliveror is just 'In over his head'.
What happened this 911, happened because he was "Unprepared". And, just like the Video of Mitt Romney and his 47% remark? This was not a New Tape. So, why the Heads Up to the Land of 9 Year Old Brides for 70 Year Old Husbands, about this Tape?
President Green Light strikes, again.
These Embassies went Unguarded ON PURPOSE.
Our Ambassador in Benghazi was an Acceptable Loss, to the Greater Plan. If you can't see this, than you aren't paying attention.
What used to be AN ACT OF WAR for any other American President, is now "A bump in the Road".
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 10:02AM
What used to be a Situation that would cause every other American President to Lock himself into a room with all of his Military, and Intelligence Advisors, and Professionals, burning the Midnight Oil.
Now, it doesn't even keep this guy from going to a PARTY at Jay Z's house, to yuk it up for some Cold Hard Cash, with Z, his Wh*re, and their 1% Leaning Tower of $1,800 a Bottle, Champagne.
He's still out there pushing that Video. The Video is the Green Light. One that his Muslim Brethren did not have, until he gave it to them.
It's not that he's In over his Head. It's not that he doesn't care. (He doesn't care, but that's not what it is.) it's not that he's Oblivious. He's not. In fact, it's the Opposite. These things are part of The Plan.
Like JESUS, inside the Temple, being questioned by the Pahisees, telling them - "I have not come to disprove the Prophets, but to Fulfill them."?
Anti-Jesus is doing the same thing.
He is fulfilling the Prophesy of John of Patmos.
Why do you think that Hamas believes that he has been "Sent" by their God of Murder?
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 10:04AM
There's no other explanation, which brings us to why we come here on Fridays in the first place.
What I see, when I look at this THING. What I think of, when I think of his Life Story, and how THIN it is, I remember - The Boys From Brazil.
In that Movie, Gregory Peck plays an old Former Nazi Eugenist, who, as the Reich was about to be extinguished, smuggled out DNA from Hitler, himself.
The idea was to Clone these Samples, when the Time was Right, and then place these New Boy Hitlers with Carbon Copies of Hitler's Parents, right down to his relationship with his Mother, and his Fathers Death, when he was just a Boy. (The "Fathers" of these Colnes, were all subsequently Killed by New Nazi Operatives. They would Guide him, shape him, and MOLD HIM in to the Man he was Born to be.
Obama is the same.
An Atheist Communist Mother, and a Muslim Marxist Father? His Father dies in the Gutter, and his Mother trucks him off to Indonesia, where he is Adopted by his New Father, and sent to the Muslim Hate Schools, and Hate Mosques, for his "Education".
His entire life, he's been Immersed in Hate. His Parents. His Mentors. His Friends and Associates. They all hate Israel, and they all hate This Country.
Every step of the way, in his life, has been Preordaained, and Manipulated, right down to the Nazi Loving Jew Boy, who has Bankrolled him, every step of the way.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 10:05AM
Today's Contest is to come up with a Movie Anaology of something else that's going on in the News, that pertains to Black Jesus.
It doesn't have to be about these attacks, and his lack of "Interest".
It can be anything that has happened this week.
I'm expanding the Parameters to make it a little more Contestant Friendly.
We're looking for a Movie. Or a T.V. Show. Or a Cartoon.
We are NOT looking for Female Body Parts that Rhyme with Mits, or Deloris. I can't stress that, enough.
Good Luck, and Good Hunting.
The Winner(s) get Appleby's Underpants/Bloomers/Car Cover. And the Loser(s) get a Free Bus Ticket for a Free Trip, with Purp, to the place where he gets his Aids Tests Done.
Everybody Wins.
Von Mises Jr| 9.28.12 @ 11:25AM
Can the winner and loser combine their prizes and have Perp wear Appleby's Bloomers to get his AIDS test? We need clarification on the rules Tim.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 12:47PM
As far as I can tell, by looking over the Rules?
You cannot get both Prizes.
You cannot have Appleby's Underpants to wear on the bus to Purp's Aids Test.
HOWEVER...................
There's nothing in there to prevent you from getting Purp's Panties, and wearing THEM on the bus.
I hope that helps.
And, thanks for playing.
Tim.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 1:33PM
Unless you can BOTH fit into Appleby's Bloomers.
Which you probably can.
John Navratil| 9.28.12 @ 11:25AM
TLP,
You guys keep coming up with references to popular films which I never see because what comes out of Hollywood is generally such crap. Inception - rubbish - figured it out before I left the room. Generally if the public likes it, I don't - I'm contrary that way.
So, without further ado
We have a pandered child of a disfunctional family who is set on a seemingly unreachable goal and obtains it through the aid of an addicted mentor and completely misjudges the audience. What else but Little Miss Sunshine dancing to Superfreak?
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 12:42PM
I'm looking at the Judges, and I think I'm gonna accept that answer.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 1:36PM
You never saw Boys from Brazil?
You gotta rent it.
Anyway, you don't have to use My Film.
You can use Any Movie Analogy to represent Anything That is in the News, regarding The Disaster that is Black Jesus' Reign.
Give it another shot.
Maybe something Obscene is in order.
TLP| 9.29.12 @ 7:58AM
Next time, I will add Soft Porn to the list of Acceptable Genres.
Now, get out there and Vote for Titt.
I mean Mitt.
Seek| 10.1.12 @ 8:07PM
Maybe you should see some movies before passing judgment -- or failing that, smaller, not-so-popular films, especially the ones in a foreign language with English subtitles that, to some, certifies them as Art.
mike 3/505| 9.28.12 @ 4:29PM
Wag the Dog.....tenuously. Best I can do, considering I'm sober and DW-S pinup is not the grand prize.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 6:39PM
Oh my God.
Where the Hell have you been, all day?
Hatchet Face Washmyass Schultz' Pinup isn't the prize?
Are you Kidding me?
I'm offering you Miss Canada's Underpants (Bloomers)!
You can probably use them as a Car Coverer. A Parachute. Or a Tent, for your Grandkids.
As always, the Contest doesn't end til 7pm.
You still have time to offer up The Beach Scene from Lord of the Rings.
I'm just sayin.
p.s. - I hope you're feeling O.K. Buddy.
mike 3/505| 9.28.12 @ 10:11PM
Doin good my friend. I'm above ground, sucking air and ain't nobody shooting at me...except for the odd ex-wife or so. Heheheheh.
Nick| 9.28.12 @ 8:22PM
It has to be Aliens.
O'Bama is Lt. Gorman, the incompetent commander in way over his head. He doesn't have a clue when it comes to doing his job. Only when he is knocked-out (thrown out of office) can rational orders be given.
Romney is Bishop, the human-like android who has the only skills to save everybody, in the end.
Axelrod, Jarrett, Rahmbo, and Blago are combined into the composite character of Carter Burke, the weaselly stooge out to make as much money as he can.
Paul Ryan is Cpl. Hicks, the guy who knows how to get the job done.
O'Biden is Pvt. Hudson, always saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.
Pvt. Vasquez represents all of the lesbos in the O'Bama regime.
Newt represents the TEA Party movement, surviving despite the destruction wrought by the scourge of the aliens, i.e., liberal policies.
And, Sarah Palin is Ellen Ripley, kicking butts and taking names.
(I know she didn't do anything this week, but someone has to be Ripley. And it certainly isn't Shrillary the Hut. She's already represented by Vasquez!)
Bill Clinton is Pvt. Spunkmeyer, of course.
TLP| 9.29.12 @ 8:54AM
I'm speechless.
If I had a hat on? I'd tip it to you.
If my back didn't hurt all the time? I would Bow to your Superior Intellect.
If I was Purp or Pelleas or Alanwhyisn'tanythingstayingupinsideofmybowellsanymoreBrooks?
I would shove my hand down your pants, and your face down mine.
ALIENS.
It all makes sense to me, now. I understand, now, how YOU can produce BOLD LETTERS, while cannot.
So, why the Late Entry? I saw your name out there ALL DAY. I saw all of your Comments. All of your Fancy Bold Type. I read your back and forths with Von Mises - Who's Designer Jeans in the 80's I never much cared for.
This is the 2nd Week in a row that the Best Entry has been sent in LATE. And, it's not just the best. You hit it outta the Park, like the guy in the Radio Ad who stays at La Quinta Motel.
Do you know how much trouble it is, straightening out the whole Prize situation? Lucky for you, Appleby's bloomers are still covering my Lawn Mowers, so all I have to do now is to change the address on the envelope.
And, I guess I'll just send the other guys more of the Bus Tickets for the Free Trip to Purp's Blood Testapalooza.
I implore the rest of you: Read what he has written.
I had no choice.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 10:18AM
Albert Constantine Jr.| 9.28.12 @ 10:14AM
May I open with the scene from Pulp Fiction, where Jules Winfield (played ably by the highly flawed Samuel L. Jackson) is contemplating his survival following the frat boy emptying his magnum at point blank range at him and his partner Vincent Vega (John Travolta). He interprets the miracle of the missing bullets as a sign he should get out of the life, and discusses the religious significance of his epiphany over breakfast with his skeptical partner.
He follows his instinct, and survives the film. Vincent doesn’t, and is gunned down following his morning constitutional a few days later.
Vincent and Jules represent that part of the electorate who chose Obama in 2008, and the gangster life represents his reelection. The frat boy with the revolver is the Libyan Embassy attack, one of the moments of clarity that illustrate the danger of Obama remaining in the White House.
And I would like to nominate Purp as the collaborating snitch in the apartment whose head is accidentally blown off when they hit the bump in the car.(I know, he is probably better as “the Gimp”, but that’s another scene for another day).
Frank Drackman| 9.28.12 @ 10:52AM
you left out the best part...
Vince, who's waiting to kill Butch, is gunned down BY Butch, with Vince's own machine pistol, (what gangster worth his salt would leave a machine pistol on the kitchen counter?)the same Butch, who saved Vince and Marcellus from Gay Anal Sex (i.e. Jack in Wi's regular weekend) by Maynard and Son at the Pawn Shop...
(and how did those Hillbillies end up in South Central? great idea for a sit com, a sort of Beverly Hillbillies/Sanford Son mutant)...
Frank "Did I break your Concentration?" Drackman
Albert Constantine Jr.| 9.28.12 @ 12:07PM
"Vincent doesn’t, and is gunned down following his morning constitutional a few days later."
I didn't exactly leave it out, but your details fill in the blanks (or FMJ roundnose, if you prefer) well.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 12:48PM
I smell a Collaboration.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 9.28.12 @ 10:58AM
I was coming in with my cut and paste entry and you had already taken care of it for me. Thank you, TLP.
CJW| 9.28.12 @ 4:04PM
Movie: Godfather 1.
Scene: Las Vegas meeting with Moe Green for Michael to buy out Moe.
Moe Green: Iranian Achminijead, or any muslim fanatic.
Fredo: Jimmy Carter and Bubba who morph into Obama.
Michael: Any Republican president
Michael tells Green he wants to buy him out and name a price. Green gets angry, makes threats, and starts to walk out. Fredo starts kissing Green's ass, begs him to stay and talk, undercuts Michael by appealing to Tom Hayden.
Obama conducts the war on terror like Fredo appeasing Moe Green.
I suggest we send the undergarments to the Bubba Library.
mike 3/505| 9.28.12 @ 4:31PM
I vote for this one.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 6:40PM
So do I.
Joellen| 9.28.12 @ 7:24PM
How about Godfather II, when Michael tells the silly young man, who wishes to be engaged to Michael's niece, NOT to be ashamed of making money. Tell that to Obama!
C. Vernon Crisler | 9.28.12 @ 10:51AM
"Russell Kirk rightly identified conservatism as a state of mind rather than an ideology or set of principles."
Then this sort of conservatism should die a peaceful death. Jefferson said somewhere that the dead do not rule the living, but I think Russell Kirk's brand of conservatism is just an attempt to do that.
True conservatism in America is the conservatism of our founding fathers and of Lincoln, the belated founding father. Another name for it is Constitutionalism -- i.e., a set of principles, not a state of mind. We the living affirm this set of principles every time we vote or whenever we refuse to engage in treason.
Stkman| 9.28.12 @ 3:31PM
Sorry, but I don't consider Lincoln a founding father, not even a belated one. Was it right to free the slaves, yes. But he pissed on the Constitution., tore this country apart and got credit for putting it back together. To this day states are still denied their rights and Washington pushed its shit down our throats daily. And we can thank Lincoln for that.
If the black still haven't figured out why they never got their 40 acres and two mules it is for this one simple reason. Slave owners were never paid by the federal government for the property the federal government stole from them. If the government would have given the 40 acres and tow mules to the former slaves they would have had to pay the owners of those slaves as slaves were legal property at the time. Had the government paid the slave owners, then they would have had to give the land and mules to the slaves. The government is still promising everythting to everyone on both sides of every issue.
Our founding father would have not gone about the freeing of slaves the way Lincoln did.
Butch| 9.28.12 @ 4:56PM
Agreed. Lincoln was the destroying father. New York, Rhode Island, and . . . Virginia all included the explicit right to secede in their articles of accession, and these were accepted by the other states. The U.S. congress discussed and debated legislative means, including a constitutional amendment, to forbid secession, actions predicated on the assumption that secession, nowhere mentioned in the constitution, was thus reserved to the states and the people of those states via the tenth amendment. Lincoln preserved the union by bloodshed, and the southern states were required--forced, really--to ratify the 14th amendment, among others, as a condition of ending reconstruction and military occupation. The former slaves were freed and made equal citizens. How has that turned out?
Everything you see in the present demise of the American nation is the fruit of the seed planted by Lincoln.
Seek| 9.28.12 @ 6:35PM
The slaves never should have been brought here in the first place. Each time you see footage of a black murderer, rapist or carjacker, you're seeing a descendant of those laborers. Lincoln, for his part, was working out a sensible and realizable repatriation plan. The cursed John Wilkes Booth prevented it from being realized.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 6:42PM
You idiots are Fckng Up My Contest.
You know that, right?
C. Vernon Crisler | 9.29.12 @ 1:37PM
So Seek, what about when you see a white murderer? Doesn't that mean whites should never have come to America?
The repatriation plan was a fantasy, and wouldn't have gone anywhere regardless of Booth.
Seek| 10.1.12 @ 8:18PM
Proportionately, blacks are criminals far more tha whites. They are only 12 percent of the total U.S. population, but they constitute roughly half of its hardcore felon population. This is hardly a "stereotype." The statement that there is "good and bad in every race" is at once true and evasive. It's a classic excuse made by guilt-ridden whites on behalf of the worst blacks.
As for Lincoln's repatriation plan, it was not some "fantasy." It was doable and likely would have been instituted at least on a limited scale. Remember, Liberia was established in the early 1820s by a private recolonization group possessed of the same rationale as Lincoln would have decades later. And some American blacks really did migrate there, though regrettably, not nearly enough.
C. Vernon Crisler | 9.29.12 @ 1:35PM
Stkman, you and Butch have obviously been DiLorenzo-ized.
Butch| 9.30.12 @ 3:22PM
Well, you probably won't see this since it's Sunday, but I've never read DiLorenzo. My mentor on the subject is the late Professor Mel E. Bradford, last of the University of Dallas, who spent an entire career debunking what he called "the most mythogenic figure in American history."
Joellen| 9.28.12 @ 11:03AM
Picture this: Braveheart scene where the effeminate son of Longshank is prancing around with his likewise council, adjusting their sashes while Longshanks armies are being trounced by William Wallace's small but mighty army. Just think of Obama appearing on the View (calling himself 'eye candy'), Letterman, Pimp with a Gimp all while the middle east is burning; Americans abroad are being brutally murdered; and the continous assault on the our Republic by his ilk, continues full force. Who is William Wallace and his army now - those who adhere to the Constitution. Maybe, like Wallace we are winning the battle, little by little. One more scene I'd like to point out. Longshank sends out his sons' wife to do his job - a trap for Wallace. Ironically she not only falls for him she bears his son! Whereas, the effeminate son has no heir and their family name dies out . FREEDOM! Love that word.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 9.28.12 @ 12:02PM
Excellent choice, particularly when Longshanks throws the lover/War Counsel out the tower window...
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 12:52PM
I hope this keeps going.
This could be The Best One Yet.
I'm hoping that mike 3/505 shows up, with his Obligatory shout out to The Beach Scene in Lord of the Flies.
mike 3/505| 9.28.12 @ 4:34PM
Beach scene......Aaah heck.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 6:45PM
WINNER!
Just Kidding.
But Thanks, anyway.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 1:38PM
I'm thinking that the "Lover" could be Netanyahu.
Yes?
mike 3/505| 9.29.12 @ 12:13PM
Naahh....Netanyahu actually has combat experience...look up comparison youth fotos: Obama vs Netanyahu
TLP| 9.30.12 @ 8:18AM
I know that.
I was just looking at the pseudo analogy of Soetoro throwinng Netanyahu to his death.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 12:54PM
Wow.
Pretty AND Smart.
I like that in a Contestant.
Occam's Tool| 9.28.12 @ 5:00PM
Longshank was also a vicious antisemite, just for the record.
As someone whose WORST professional colleague was a Frenchman, whose SECOND worst was a Scotsman, and whose Third worst was an Englishman, the Scots/French/British fight has always been a difficult one for me.
I just want a guy who will lower my taxes (Romney), lower my gas bill by drilling for energy (Romney), and who has a legit friendship with the Israeli PM that predates any political career (Romney).
And I don't want a Commie Traitor (Obama).
Makes it easy for me. You see, as it was so well put in Miller's Crossing, Obama's view of the world is essentially this:
"It's gettin' so a businessman can't expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can't trust a fix, what can you trust? For a good return, you gotta go bettin' on chance - and then you're back with anarchy, right back in the jungle."
I happen to see it as a fixed fight; Obama believes it's "ettical."
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 6:47PM
Bravo!
Encore!
You may not get those Underpants, but, if you don't win?
I'll send you a pair of mine.
obadiah| 9.28.12 @ 12:39PM
What GWB showed was that money, militarism and oligopoly trump the blah-blah-blah of Burke, Hayek and Ayn. The trumps continue to run in the Romney campaign. But Americans prefer democratic liars to republican liars. Bill Clinton is America's favorite liar. Tea party fantasies and socialist fantasies are equally remote from the facts of modern life.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 12:57PM
I'm afraid we can't use that one, but I must say - I never expected an Entry from Tony Stark's Arch Enemy in Iron Man I.
What an Honour.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 1:30PM
Von Mises Jr| 9.28.12 @ 11:50AM
Alright Tim, let me see if I figured it out.
If I am wrong, I donate my prize to D'Red. He is probably due for an AIDS test along with his comrade Perp.
If I am right, let Perp have Appleby's bloomers. I have been rough on Caliban today and he needs some cheering up.
"Mr. Ofili’s painting of a dark-skinned Madonna with photographs of vaginas surrounding her enraged Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani. The mayor, who mistakenly claimed that elephant dung was smeared on the image when it in fact was used at the base to hold the painting up, tried to ban it from being displayed at the Brooklyn Museum of Art, in 1999."
If the Madonna is dark-skinned, then Jesus must have been black?
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 6:51PM
No.
Madonna's adopted African Trophybaby, who loves with her Guatemalan Housekeeper is Black.
TLP| 9.30.12 @ 8:23AM
No. Madonna's Adopted African Trophey Baby - who LIVES with Madonna's Guatemalan Gay Housecleaner - is Black.
Understand?
Stkman| 9.28.12 @ 3:38PM
My entry is Casablanca. Ric would be the Democarats and Ilsa would of course be Obama. Ilsa (Obama) promises everything to Ric(the Democrats). Of course itis only in the end that Ric sees that Ilsa had planned everything well in advance knowing that Ric would do anything to taste that sweet _ussy again(the Presidency) as Ilsa leaves with her boy friend Victor(The Muslim Brotherhood).
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 3:48PM
I smell Underpants.
And, thanks for coming.
I was starting to lose hope.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 3:49PM
mike 3/505.
Where are you?
mike 3/505| 9.28.12 @ 4:36PM
Was driving home for the weekend.... I see at least two other contestants who have got me beat....six ways from Sunday. Like Clint Eastwood says...."Man's gotta know his limitations."
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 6:53PM
Don't be so sure.
Stkman| 9.28.12 @ 5:22PM
Mike 3/505 may have inadvertantly stumbled upon a winner.
Magnum Force.
Dirty Harry is of course the America we all love and want to keep. Loving, but will kick your ass if you look at us the wrong way.
Hal Holbrook, the corrupt police captain is of course Obama. Then thera are the three corrupt motorcycle cops. They are of course played by Hillary Clinton, Timothy Geithner and Ben Bernake.
In the end Dirty Harry, the America we love, kill the corrupt officers and their leader.
And everyone lived happily ever after.
Stkman| 9.28.12 @ 5:24PM
Ecept for the gullable and ignorant mayor of San Fransicko who is of couse played by none other than Joseph Biden who is tarred and feathered, then sent to live in exile in Oakland(without even a cell phone).
mike 3/505| 9.28.12 @ 5:30PM
"Mike 3/505 may have inadvertantly stumbled upon a winner.
Magnum Force."
Yeah...I meant to do that. :-)
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 6:54PM
Yeah, right.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 7:42PM
Okay. It's 7:17 pm, and the Party's over.
As always, I wanna thank all of the Paticipants for Participating.
I especially wanna thank Von Mises for joining us, as we are a Family, and there is always room for one more.
I also wanna thank Frank Drackmam for coming, and for keeping it Clean, for once.
Kudos go out to our Reigning Champions - Albert Constantine Jr. and Mike 3/505, for gracing us with their Prescence and their Halfhearted Entries.
Of Albert wants to put foreward some kind of Acceptance Speach on that? I look forward to it, as should the rest of you.
As for Appleby's Underpants? I gotta tell ya. As always, it's hard to pin down an outright Victor, when so many of the Entries are so good. So I have come up with a Solution.
I was gonna give it to Stkman, until I noticed that he spelt San Fransisco wrong, and I didn't understand what he meant by - Sweet _ussy.
Albert and Frank had something going there, until mentioned - Hillbillies.
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 8:08PM
So, without further Adieux.
I award the Underpants of Miss Canada - Appleby - to CKW, for his Unforgettable Rendition of The Godfather Part I. mike 3/505 thought you won it, and who am I to argue with a Two Time Champion?
I wanna hand out Honourable Mentions to mike 3/505, because I know that he's been Under the Weather, lately, but still made the effort, (Lackluster as it was)
I give one to Albert C. Jr. Who's question - "Contest?" - convinced me to come out of Retirement for one more shot at this.
And, I wanna give one to Joellen, for being a good sport, and sounding So Hot, as my wife and I have been arguing a lot, lately, and it never hurts to have a Plan B.
Since I only have one Ginormous pair of Appleby's Bloomers, and CJW has won the Honour, I offer those Honourable Mentions the other items from her Laundry Basket. I've got Socks, Garter Belts, and something that looks like Knickers.
Everyone else will recieve a Free Bus Ticket, for the Bus ride to Purp's Aids Test, as well as a Roll of Quarters, to pass the time away in the Dirty Book Store, as he does his business in the Peep Show Booth until the Bus comes.
Congratulations, all.
You are all Winners, where I'm sitting.
(Which is in my basement, drinking beer.)
Huzzah!
TLP| 9.28.12 @ 8:09PM
CJW.
DAMN IT!
Joellen| 9.28.12 @ 8:15PM
Tim, signing off with a smile on my face - good night to all.
Nick| 9.28.12 @ 8:49PM
I guess I should've *refreshed* before I hit submit, above, huh?
I demand that the polls be kept open late! I demand a recount. I demand something!
I'll get a court order, er, I mean, I have a court order. A judge has issued an injunction against these proceedings.
THE POLLS ARE STILL OPEN!
Now, go check out my entry, located at about the half-way mark of this thread.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 9.28.12 @ 9:12PM
Once again, TLP, thanks for this week’s contest. I will dust off a space in the cabinet for the Honorable Mention this time around.
Frank Drackman, founder of Doctors Without Boundaries, was a worthy contributor to my Pulp Fiction entry. As long as we do movie scenes about the disastrous Obama Presidency, the Tarantino catalogue is full of films which will keep on giving.
To CJW, I send my heartfelt congratulations. I know you will appreciate the sentiment “I believe the nomination itself is the award” Rockford Files Episode 113 Season 6 “Nice Guys Finish Dead”, where Jim wins, then loses the Goodhue Award to Lance White (Tom Selleck) while helping Freddy Beamer (James Whitmore Jr.) beat a bogus murder beef].
Joellen, with Braveheart, and Stkman [at the suggestion of Mike 3/505 (best of luck with the treatment, you are in my humble prayers)] with Magnum Force again elevated the competition, as did OT’s Miller’s Crossing (could the scene where the mayor is talking about patronage jobs better fit the Obama Czar appointments?) and JN’s Little Miss Sunshine entries (without any mention of female body parts).
With all due respect to any former owner, I look forward to seeing a new flag flying in front of the Clinton Library.
CJW| 9.28.12 @ 10:00PM
Tim, Albert, et al.
Just came in from our HS football game, and saw this. Thank you. I would have voted for Bravehart. Great movie.
Albert may be right, though. If Nick wins his appeal and there is a recount I, like Jim Rockford, will have to give back the award. Albert, remember the buxom blonde trying to hypnotize Freddy?
Nick, I am willing to share the prize if you agree to donate it to Bubba's library. An out of court settlement?
In the meantime, pending the appeal, please send the clothing to the William Jefferson Clinton Presidential Library, Second Floor/Third Floor which houses numerous items of clothing.
During the football game, I thought I should have added Bibi, in addition to the Republican presidents, in the role of Michael. Do I get an extra prize?
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 12:08AM
I don't want to take away your win, W.
I just want equal consideration, since I started my entry way before TLP posted that the contest was over. Is it my fault that I kept getting distracted by what was on the TV?
Although, I'm not above enticing TLP, again, with the promise of revealing the secrets of how to use bold & italics in his comments, for a little quid pro quo.
Say no more, say know more. Nudge, nudge. Know what I mean?
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 12:09AM
Your's was excellent, by the way, W.
Hope you liked mine.
Have a great weekend!
TLP| 9.29.12 @ 9:05AM
I have an Announcement.
I'm speechless.
If I had a hat on? I'd tip it to you.
If my back didn't hurt all the time? I would Bow to your Superior Intellect.
If I was Purp or Pelleas or Alanwhyisn'tanythingstayingupinsideofmybowellsanymoreBrooks?
I would shove my hand down your pants, and your face down mine.
ALIENS.
It all makes sense to me, now. I understand, now, how YOU can produce BOLD LETTERS, while cannot.
So, why the Late Entry? I saw your name out there ALL DAY. I saw all of your Comments. All of your Fancy Bold Type. I read your back and forths with Von Mises - Who's Designer Jeans in the 80's I never much cared for.
This is the 2nd Week in a row that the Best Entry has been sent in LATE. And, it's not just the best. You hit it outta the Park, like the guy in the Radio Ad who stays at La Quinta Motel.
Do you know how much trouble it is, straightening out the whole Prize situation? Lucky for you, Appleby's bloomers are still covering my Lawn Mowers, so all I have to do now is to change the address on the envelope.
And, I guess I'll just send the other guys more of the Bus Tickets for the Free Trip to Purp's Blood Testapalooza.
I implore the rest of you: Read what he has written.
I had no choice.
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 11:17AM
Hey, keep your hands to yourself, fella.
I'm sorry about last week, I messed up. I use tabs & my history to keep track of my comments, and kept clicking the wrong thread for the contest. My mistake.
As far as yesterday, it's simple: I couldn't think of anything in the morning!
I don't remember conversing with VMjr., and I had to leave around 1:30, I think.
I didn't even come up with my entry until right before I started typing, which was right around 7 PM, I might add. I can't help it if I'm easily distracted.
But, please, I don't want to take away CJW's honor. He deserves it.
Your praise, and ACjr.'s, are enough of an award, to paraphrase Al & CJW.
Wait, NO it's not. I WANT CASH! Ha-ha!
Just to show my magnanimousness?, and humility, here is what you seek, TLP: The key to making words bold.
Just read the last few comments to Mr. McGrath & ACjr., at the end of the thread:
http://spectator.org/blog/2012.....ent_869802
TLP| 9.29.12 @ 3:56PM
I'm not worthy.
You keep your Bold Type.
It's what makes you - You.
NICK - King of the Contest with no Cash Value.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 9.29.12 @ 9:55AM
No doubt, Nick, yours was a great entry. The only flaws that I could observe was the in the end, right before he pulls the pin with Vasquez, Gorman was actually a sympathetic character (not likely with Obama). Also, for ease of casting, I would have used George Soros in the Burke role, and Alan West as Apone, but it was all brilliantly done.
CJW, I reiterate, the nomination itself is the award, as, like Jimbo, the recount changed the outcome.
TLP, I trust Nick will share the secrets of the bold and italics, as it will give you even more tools to spread the word.
The hits just keep on coming.
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 11:49AM
Sheesh, everyone's a critic!
No analogy is perfect, ya' know? Ha-ha!
No, wait a minute, it does work. Think of Gorman blowing himself up as a metaphor for O'Bama allowing terrorist attacks to happen on the anniversary of 9/11, and then lying about it & trying to cover it up.
I did think about using Soros, but wanted to keep Burke tied to the Chicago/O'Bama machine. I do like Alan West as Apone, good call, sir.
Have a good weekend.
You, too, Mr. Pennell.
CJW| 9.29.12 @ 12:02PM
Nick and Albert,
Nick, you deserve it . We may need photo Id for future contests.Congratulations.
Remember to send the prize to the William Jefferson Blythe Clinton Presidential Library, Second and Third Floor Clothing Section.
You must be specific. The First Floor is for shredded documents, lost documents, and FBI files of the vast right wing conspiracy.
The top floor, or Fourth Floor, has a collection of cigars...
Have a pleasant weekend,
signed, Jim Rockford.
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 12:23PM
Thanks, CJW. You flatter me, sir.
But, you know if the prize is sent to Bubba's library, Shrillary will just donate it to Good Will, and take a $300 deduction!
Or, was that algore?
CJW| 9.29.12 @ 12:41PM
You have a point, Nick. But, with the Romney Administration, we will have an executive order disallowing any clothing, cigar, and humidor expenses from Bubba and Mrs. Bubba.
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 1:53PM
Don't forget dry-cleaning bills, CJW. Ha-ha!
John II| 9.29.12 @ 12:32PM
Not to pile on, Nick, but Al's certainly right about Gorman, and he might have added that Vasquez is more of a neuter than a lesbo and in any event exhibits a redeeming capacity for self-sacrifice right up to her roughneck, in-your-face statement of ironic affection for Gorman as they pull the pin together.
There is no real analogue for Vasquez anywhere in the Professor's retinue of degenerates.
Of course, the rest of your comparison is spot-on.
And now back to "The Boys from Brazil" (1978), thanks to Timmy's reminder. I had remembered Gregory Peck and Laurence Olivier in that flick, but completely forgot about Denholm Elliot. Great cast.
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 1:49PM
Okay, okay. I concede that their redemption & demise do not fit perfectly, John II.
Although......
If you extend my metaphor, in my reply to ACjr., above, it could be said that the aliens (liberals) are about to do in Goren & Vasquez (the O'Bama regime), so, they are going to take as many aliens (liberals) as they can with them, on Nov. 6th.
I also thought of the perfect Queen Alien: Nancy Pelosi!
All she does is keep laying liberal eggs, that then become parasites destroying the American people.
Shrillary would work too, I guess.
Then we could have the climactic final scene, with Sarah against the Queen, in 2016.
But, that would mean Romney would have to lose. Uh-oh!
Forget it. I'm quitting while I'm ahead.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend, John.
TLP| 9.29.12 @ 3:46PM
BEST ONE EVER!
I thought I was funny.
You guys are HILARIOUS.
p.s. - if anyone knows how to get in touch with Occam?
Tell him My Underpants are in the Mail.
GO GIANTS!
TLP| 9.29.12 @ 4:06PM
Whatta ya think?
We do this again, Next Friday?
John II| 9.29.12 @ 7:03PM
Sure. Or, as Curly would say, "SOIT 'nly! Nyuh, nyuh, nyuh."
I think I should be one of the judges, though.
And now back to a quiet Saturday evening with "They Stooge to Conga" (1943), in which Moe, Larry, and Curly are hired to fix a doorbell at a house that turns out to be the headquarters of Nazi conspirators. Lloyd Bridges appears in a cameo role. (Actually, Lloyd Bridges appears in a regular minor role, since he wasn't famous yet. One needs to cultivate a proper sense of history and perspective when spelunking through the archives of Hollywood.)
TLP| 9.30.12 @ 8:56AM
Someone go help John II.
He's stuck in a Movie Trivia loop.
gray man| 9.28.12 @ 10:47PM
frum and brooks are clowns
Mnestheus| 9.29.12 @ 1:46AM
The palaeoleninist tracticians of this wannabe neojacobin directoire have already thrown Frum under the bus with the Buckleys. Give them enough rope and they'll find room to keelhaul the Regnery cohort as well.
Theo Prinse| 9.29.12 @ 5:48AM
In essence conservatism stands for Constitutional protection of private property. Conservatism opposes feudalism being set of legal and military customs in medieval Europe that flourished between the 9th and 15th centuries, which, broadly defined, was a system for structuring society around relationships derived from the holding of land in exchange for service or labor.
Philosophical conservatism like social and compassionate conservatism being socialist compromises - all opposes Innovation as the only source of wealth.
Innovation is new products, new production methods and cheaper product prices.
Innovation is lead by the infinite research into the (neuro etc) nature of man and man surrounding nature.
Innovation (and subsequent labor productivity) sets the expanding boundaries for any discourse on philosophical views of society like conservatism.
20th century innovation was bound by the hydro carbon economy dominated by the Saudi Islam and their Sunni Islam is now infiltrating American institutions and Government with the help of the Clinton doctrine of Muslim Outreach.
This outreach was preceded by Franklin D. Roosevelt’s Port of Suex deal with Gulf Oil states. Contd.
Theo Prinse| 9.29.12 @ 5:48AM
Cntd. Dimmi Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski handed over western oriented Islamic masses to the islamo fundamentalists.
After returning from his ambassador post in Tehran, Iran, Richard Helms - who interviewed Hitler and ran MKULTRA - was convicted of lying to Congress, Than Caspar Weinberger's Iran-Contra affair and Ronald Reagan who was shot and wounded by John Hinckley jr. - an extreme close friends to his vice president George H.W Bush's family - who's father (like the father of Kennedy) had business with and or admired the Hitler regime.
Conservative Pat Buchanan denies he wrote the SS Bitburg line for Reagan.
All these American pro Islam fundamentalism 'policies' stem from Roosevelt’s doctrine to base US military power on Saudi diesel oil.
This is all succeeded by the 6th of June 2009 Cairo apology speech of Obama leading the Arab world into civil wars.
That is why we must support the Mitt Romney - Paul Ryan Energy Independence in 2020 plan
Albert Constantine Jr.| 9.29.12 @ 9:57AM
POST, is this you?
Gary B| 9.29.12 @ 9:55AM
"Today's political challenges are primarily fiscal in nature and the federal government is the biggest offender."
Actually, today's political challenge is more basic than the economy. It's the soul of America. Since our founding, everything has been built upon that. The magic combination of individual liberty and personal responsibility, along with property rights, has been under attack by the left for a hundred years. So, yes, we need Paul Ryan's economic brilliance, but, more importantly, we needs Romney's morality. Just by showing up, he classes up the place. Liberals hiss and squawk as if Jesus himself had just appeared. That's how you know you've got the right guy for the most important part of the job: saving America from the immoral hordes who expend great energy seeking the path to freebees and easy way out. It's a tough fight.
Fiscal| 9.29.12 @ 10:54AM
The theory that the Tea Party really wants small government is a myth. When you get to specifics, the people of the Tea Party do not want significant cuts in Medicare and Social Security -- and for the most part, want to spend more on defense. You can't reduce the interest on the debt, so all of these things that the Tea Party doesn't want to cut is 70-80% of our federal budget.
Most of us REAL fiscal conservatives are not afraid to cut ALL of these things, but the people of the Tea Party are nothing but ignorant posers whose mantle has been absorbed by big organizations like FreedomWorks.
In addition, Romney has been forced into a budget that most analysts say has much larger deficits than Obama. Real economic conservatives cannot get elected because the largest voting block for Republicans are seniors who will not give up even a dime of Medicare and Social Security.
Gary B| 9.29.12 @ 11:09AM
Careful, Fiscal. Not all Tea Partiers are equal. For many, it's the best game in town and it's getting the job done. Idealism is a tough row to hoe.
Fiscal| 9.29.12 @ 12:47PM
I agree, but the bulk of them don't understand what small government is all about and never look at the numbers.
Gary B| 9.29.12 @ 2:47PM
Perhaps, but they're doing a great job of slowing the great ship of state. I believe their most important role is to threaten RINO office holders to straighten up and fly right or the next primary will be their last. I'm sure they're doing a good job on local elections, too, but we can't know about all of that.
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 12:16PM
I'm still waiting for your "scientific" arguments against the Pro-Life position, Fiscal.
Remember, they have to based on actual science.
Fiscal| 9.29.12 @ 12:55PM
Nick, you're missing my point. There are no scientific arguments against (or for) the Pro-Life position because it is not science, it is philosophy. Your understanding of what is science is flawed because your assumptions (i.e., the definition of "human life") are not science. Like Aquinas, your logic results in a circular argument where the proof is derivative of a faulty assumption based primarily on religious belief. You can only win that argument in your own mind because it is based on your definitions. Trying to make the issue based on "science" is a rationalization based on religious principle. It may make you feel better, but it is just junk science.
Now, if you really want to talk about the issue, we can, and should, have a PHILOSOPHICAL discussion because there might well be some common ground between us.
Nick| 9.29.12 @ 2:22PM
Every sentence in your reply, Fiscal, is completely untrue.
You seem to have forgotten how this argument was started. It began with your false statement, that read in part, "The idea that a human life begins at conception is wholly a religious, not scientific, concept. Of course, most of you twist 'science' into your religious beliefs like 'intelligent design'."
I proceeded to list facts from the science of human biology. Facts, such as, after fertilization the zygote begins to grow & consume nutrients; has 46 chromosomes, only half of which come from the mother; and has to be protected from the mother's immune system.
You replied that an ovum & sperm are human life. Which is absurd, as I explained. This was when you ran away, refusing to answer. Because you have no answers.
The only people speaking the language of science were me, and MRD (the physician). I.e., the Pro-Lifers. TinaB also contributed.
All you have done is attempt to obfuscate, deflect, distract from answering my objections.
The only thing "philosophical" about abortion is whether, or not, it should be legal to kill innocent human beings. It should not.
But, the moment when biological human life begins is not a philosophical, or religious, issue. It is a matter of science. Which is all I'm interested in discussing, okay?
Still waiting.
Ted R.| 9.30.12 @ 8:17PM
"Economic conservatism was elbowed to the side as Republicans learned to stop worrying and love the feds." Oh, and I thought that fiscal responsibility was elbowed to the side when the Bush tax cuts were passed. Anyway, Matt - I'd like to hear you on record for being against the Iraq War. I'd like to hear you on record for being for tax increases to PAY for the war. I'd like to hear you on record denouncing the Patriot Act.
Sadly, there is no record of those statements, is there, now? Because like every other Con out there, you are a professional hypocrite who voted for Junior, twice. Same as all the other Tea Party types. Look the other way while your people double the debt, and let the foxes guard the financial henhouse - till it all comes crashing down, and THEN you lynch the black guy who just came into office, who was desperately trying to keep your crisis from becoming the Great Depression II (and succeeded! No thanks to YOU - and history will record the fact).
Ted R.| 9.30.12 @ 8:17PM
Wankers. Brooks was not being forthright enough. Of course it is not the champions of small government who have got the whip hand on the Republican party. It is the Plutocrats who want their regulations and taxes slashed - and they have been able to get legions of Christian dupes (poor, uneducated, and easy to command) - to do their electoral bidding for them.
Diagnosing conservatism is really pretty simple. For the Plutocrats, it is all about preserving (i.e., expanding) their grip on power. For the Con plebians, it is all about racial identity politics, which is the ugly theme running through every major policy position you have, from terrorism (the A-rab "towel-heads"), to government spending ("welfare queens," of course - not corporations that get subsidies and pay no taxes), to immigration (but of course). This is who you people ARE.
SYAsked| 10.11.12 @ 5:52PM
People are people. Alinsky helped the losers become propertied and more confident. As should be expected. once they had houses, and were not renters, they morphed into the very sorts he opposed. They wanted to protect what they had labored for and invested in. Somehow that was a wrong in Alinsky's mind.
SYAsked| 10.11.12 @ 6:01PM
And further, in response to Ted R's rant, he needs to get out more among Conservatives and Republicans, as stereotypes dominate his thinking about them.
I expect that the sorts that run Solyndra, Disney and such, that work for Obama and his re-election, are anything but the sort he condemns.
theyjustcantstop| 9.30.12 @ 11:03PM
frum,and brooks talking consevative politics,is like when the un holds human-rights sessions.
you know what tea-party members think of these two,very little,their paid very well to be politcal,and tea-party members are consevative americans.
through this whole article was there any mention of the fiscal,or social condition of america,these two idiots are in the middle of the largest,soon to be the most powerful grass-roots organization in america,and their trying to figure what to label them,thats easy,CONSERVATIVE AMERICANS,wanting to conserve america for future generations.
your concerns don't seem to include america,but whether your theory is correct,your personal life span is,one election cycle to another.
you can label tea-partiers what ever you want,belive me,this year me,and mine have been labeled,racist,homo-phobe,and several other unfounded distinctions,but we know,what sort of person we will be voting for.
me,and many other tea-party members are pushing to get the appropriate paperwork done,and approved,to get our fair share of the community organizing funds handed out by the government.
SYAsked| 10.11.12 @ 5:48PM
When Liberals lose, they whine about unfairness, un-inclusiveness, and incivility.
But when they are in control they will say what Pelosi said. 'We Won'.