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Loose Canons
Israel’s Clock Is Running Out on Iran
Get ready for war in the Middle East — after the election.
(Page 2 of 2)
The offer of a successful alternative to Iran would have to pose an option more attractive to them than their pursuit of nuclear weapons. In determining if such an alternative exists we need to remember that the Iranian regime has evolved into a joint theocratic-military autocracy. Members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps — which is Iran’s terrorist arm as well as in control of its missile forces and nuclear program — hold many political positions within the regime. The IRGC and the ayatollahs believe that nuclear weapons are not only a deterrent, but also a way of asserting their hegemony over all the Middle East and achieving their desire for restoration of a caliphate over all nations. No policy that denies them nuclear weapons can be as attractive as their current path, far less more so.
Some will object to this conclusion, saying that Ayatollah Khamenei has said that nuclear weapons are prohibited by Islam. But this is, quite evidently, another falsehood crafted for western consumption, just like Iran’s frequent declarations of innocence of terrorism, which is also supposedly banned by Islam. In Reliance of the Traveller, the most authoritative book on Islamic law available in English, there is a prohibition of using weapons that cause general destruction in a conflict with fellow Muslims. There is no such prohibition in wars against infidels. (Reliance is a book of Sunni Islamic law, but there is no reason to suspect that Shiite “law” would be any different.)
Israel will decide for itself when it must strike to prevent Iran from achieving its nuclear weapon ambitions. Israelis — and Iranians — know that Israel cannot survive a single nuclear weapon delivered to Tel Aviv or another major Israeli city. When Israel strikes, it will have to do a great deal more than strike at Iran’s reactors and uranium enrichment facilities. It will — as I outlined two years ago — have to strike first at Iran’s missile bases, the IRGC command and control structure, and at the regime itself.
When it does, Iran will respond with everything it has, ranging from its intact missiles to launching terrorist attacks around the world at Israeli — and probably U.S. — targets. As some Israelis have said, the war may go on for a month or more. Hizballah Leader Hassan Nasrallah threatened an attack on Israel with thousands of rockets. Earlier this month, he said, “We can transform the lives of millions of Zionists in occupied Palestine to a real hell.”
If Israel suffers major casualties or other significant setbacks in the war, there’s every chance that its Arab neighbors would join in the fight not to help Iran but in war against a common enemy. Whether Israel survives will then depend on whether we fight quickly and effectively enough to defend it and end the Iranian threat. On that point Israel — and the rest of us— will remain in doubt as long as Obama is in office.
About the Author
Jed Babbin served as a Deputy Undersecretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush. He is the author of several bestselling books including Inside the Asylum and In the Words of Our Enemies. You can follow him on Twitter @jedbabbin.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (110) | Leave a comment
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JohnWV| 8.27.12 @ 6:33AM
Iran is only Israel's current fixation. America's entire electoral system has been corrupted by Netanyahu's Israel, AIPAC, Israel Firsters and ingenious distribution of enormous amounts of Jewish money. Our representative democracy is nearly defeated and the destruction of America as we know it well underway. Termination of the criminal treachery and treason demands immediate priority. The Government of the United States must again serve American interests, not the Jewish state's relentless pursuit of invulnerability, territorial conquest and apartheid supremacist empire in, and beyond, the Mideast.
spike59| 8.27.12 @ 6:41AM
ZEEEEEE CHEWWWWWSSSSSSS!!!!!!! IMMER ZEEEEEE CHEWWWWWSSSSSSS!!!!!!!
seig heil, dumbass
AmericanCynic| 8.27.12 @ 1:02PM
Being critical of Israel's policies and objectives does not make somebody antisemitic (which is a good argument against any theocracy). Americans should be concerned with ANY nation's influence in our government. That said, there is an argument for our support of Israel. It's a nuanced relationship to be sure, but America must be careful not to compromise it's foreign policy for any ally.
Jack in Wi| 8.27.12 @ 6:59AM
When you get 3+ billion in foreign aid money. You can get to buy a lot of politicians and media people with just a little of the laundered money. Congress is Israeli occupied territory. Those politicians it doesn't buy, it intimidates or blackmails. The racist apartheid regime needs regime change. Israel needs to be integrated just like South Africa and the American South were. No body spoke out more forcefully then the Jews of South Africa and the USA for equal rights for all and an end to racism. It is time to practice what they preach. Africans in Israel, in the last month have been subject to hateful pogroms. There have been atempted lynchings by young Israeli thugs of Palistinians as well. Israel is not worth one drop of American blood or one American dollar. If you didn't like the neighbors why did you steal the place?
TLP| 8.27.12 @ 8:51AM
Wow, Jack. Look at you. Got your chest all out there, going after those Dirty Jews, with a new Zest for Life, now that you've found a Kindred Spirit in John from the Birthplace of the KKK.
Good for you. You go, Girl!
What I'm wondering (and maybe you can help me out) how is it Possible that, after 64 Years of being Surrounded by the Worst MFing Pieces of Sh*t that Satan ever set upon the Human Race, is Israel still standing.
How is it that Hundreds of Millions of Blood Soaked, Blood Thirsty Arab Scumbags, with all of the Oil and Money in the World, can't defeat 6 Million itty bitty Jews, living in a Country the size of Deleware?
What did GOD say about "Fckng with MY people"?
Something about "Woe be it to any Man or Nation that would seek to do Harm to MY Children in Israel"?
The Persians are gone. The Babylonians are Gone. The Nazis are gone, as are the Soviets.
Great Empires, with Vast Armies, yet, they are all gone, while Israel still stands.
Perhaps Jack/John can explain?
Maybe it's all of the Blood of Christian Children, that they're Dinking?
Is that it, Jack?
squalis| 8.27.12 @ 9:35AM
A scary scenario. If Israel launches a justified preemptive strike, their reward is war (one they might not win without US support-I would not count on Jewish members of Congress or the Senate for support, let alone Obama) and worldwide condemnation. If they don't launch an attack, we just wait for the nuclear explosion in Israel, then get to say I told you so.
TLP| 8.27.12 @ 5:48PM
They have to strike BEFORE the Election.
Only then, would the Narcissist be forced to help them, to shore up the Jewish Vote.
If they wait, and Obama Wins?
They better be ready to Fire Every Nuke they have.
KennesawJack| 8.27.12 @ 10:18PM
Tim, I love ya like a brother but on this I think you get it wrong (and that doesn't happen often). If they attack before the election, they guarantee the Marxist's re-election. After the election, when Obamarx has lost, he won't have any choice but to assist Israel. If he doesn't, the Democrat Party is toast forever and he knows it.
TLP| 8.28.12 @ 9:43AM
I hear what you're saying, but if I'm Israel, I can't worry about tomorrow.
I strike NOW, cause I know that The Thing in the White House MUST SUPPORT ME, for he is the Ultimate Narccissist, and he can not imagine a World without Him as President. And, if I wait, and he wins a second term? Israel is a Dead Man.
When the Shit hits the Fan, it's gonna be All Out. Iran has already said that their first retaliatory strike will be against the Saudi Oil Fields, and then they will block up the Straits of Hormuz.
These are things that will garner an American Response.
If this should propel him to a 2nd Term?
So be it.
My Enemies are Destroyed.
Capiche Jack?
And, yes. I accept your apology
Audax| 8.28.12 @ 5:41AM
Do you think Israel is factoring in an Obama loss?
TLP| 8.28.12 @ 9:44AM
Do you think they can TAKE THAT CHANCE?
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:24AM
Why a man like you would take mercy on us, & try to tell a bunch of nut cases the truth, I don't know. But I appreciate that you do. This is about romney being able to buy another war with our money, from people who financed his campaign. Romney doesn't care if there is a war, or who gets killed, he just wants to pay back his buddies, as usual.
Tom Kyba| 8.27.12 @ 11:59AM
Monty Python's...Flying Circussssss.
TrueBlue | 8.27.12 @ 11:41AM
Kind of like Pakistan and it's $10+ billion a year, huh? At least Israel is an ally that hasn't tried to kill our civilians. Your sympathy for a group of people that supports the genocide of an entire society is rather pathetic Jack. Israel is not an occupier, all they got was the land that was theirs before they were chased off of it during WWII, and the land they rightfully took in a defensive conflict in '67. Any land they gain pushing into "Palistine" after an attack is also rightfully theirs. Not like the Chinese where they just go and conquer areas then brutally suppress all opposition. Or the Russians for that matter. Never see you saying anything bad about them though...
Doctor Right| 8.27.12 @ 7:34AM
Thanks, Jack.
FYI, when you want to create a fictitious identity, you might want to use a little imagination.
"Jack in Wi"...."JohnWV"...?
What's next?
"Jim in Wy"..?
"Jerry in WA"..?
Either way, you're all anti-Semitic creeps who wraps yourselves in the flag to spread your idiotic vitriol.
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 7:46PM
By the way, to brighten everyone's day: St. Pancake's family lost their lawsuit against Israel. Nada. Not one thin shekel. Har, har, har. Rachel Corey, BURN IN HELL!
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:30AM
The American People have not taken care of America for a good solid thirty years. Before that, they had been in decline of governing themselves for, well since 1929. So, to say that we the people can no longer take care of ourselves is a massive understatement.
But here's the problem for the right, Mitt Romney is a loser. They can't talk about him personally, and so they must bolster right wing fanatics in other ways. Hence, their entirely desperate war mongering as seen here. And unfortunately, we have two more full moths of Romney being utterly pathetic, so get ready for the right losing its mind.
TrueBlue | 8.27.12 @ 11:47AM
What do you mean they can't talk about Romney personally? What in his personal life is there to criticize? The fact that once, nearly 30 years ago, they put their dog on the roof of their car? They were hardly the only people in the country to do that kind of thing. What in his business career is there to criticize? The fact that he was successful and helped to create tons of successful businesses? Or are you still trying to make the fact that 200 people lost their jobs while 1800 kept them into some kind of evil event?
RCV| 8.27.12 @ 11:45AM
What is it? Antisemite week? I guess the Ron Paul rally yesterday fired up the troops.
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 5:49PM
"War Mongering?" Hmmm...
I love watching the jacks discuss how the Iranians really DON'T mean for their words to be construed as threats of genocide when they utter threats of genocide.
Israel will make its call based on its own security issues; Bibi knows that the assault will NOT be a major issue in the US campaign.
Our intervention can be as simple as assuring Israel that we will back them in the UN and replace munitions spent. That's a hell of a lot more than Obama or W did. Failure to back Israel on this issue was one of W's greatest blunders.
As SNL used to say: Francisco Franco is still dead. And Ron Paul and his pals are still antisemitic assholes. I will make my OWN call on who threatens my family and me, thank you very much.(The ability to state the permanent and obvious masquerading as news.)
TinaB| 8.27.12 @ 6:42PM
You are correct, as usual, OT. Both W and his right hand Condi lost a lot of my respect over this. They were a fairly good team until they started telling Israel what they could and couldn't do. God bless Israel.
KyMouse| 8.28.12 @ 10:14AM
I don't remember who said this, OT, but I've never forgotten it --
In the years before WWII began, the English sat around asking, over their cups of tea, "What do you suppose Hitler REALLY means when he says he want to kill all the Jews?"
RCV| 8.28.12 @ 7:06PM
No, according to Jack from Wisconsin, Hitler only decided to kill the Jews late in the war, when he had no choice. He's a misunderstood man.
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 7:47PM
Tina, KY, and RCV: thank you, friends.
Tom Kyba| 8.27.12 @ 11:57AM
Oh my God, look it's a Jew. Wait, there's another one. Lord help us they're everywhere. Run everyone, run for your lives!
Seek| 8.27.12 @ 7:50PM
Maybe it's Iran that fixated on Israel rather than the other way around.
Seek| 8.27.12 @ 7:52PM
Say, John, ever think maybe it's Iran that's fixated on Israel rather than the other way around?
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 7:48PM
Thank you, Seek.
JohnWV| 8.27.12 @ 6:33AM
However did we get it all so backwards? As a signatory to the Non Proliferation Treaty, Iran has an internationally recognized right to develop and implement nuclear technology. Israel rejected the NPT and has no such right. Yet, the Jewish state has ICBM nukes and openly threatens Iran; actually campaigns for war against Iran. Israel, not Iran, should be sanctioned and forced to reveal its nuclear machinations to IAEA inspection. However did we get it all so backwards?
spike59| 8.27.12 @ 6:44AM
what planet did you come from and what color is the sky? you've got it completely backwards; Iran has been issuing annihilation threats against Israel since damn near forever! Iran and its nuclear weapons program is not just a threat to Israel, but the entire Middle East; right now, only the murderous Assad regime in Syria will have anything to do with Iran. the rest of the region would (secretly) cheer its downfall
Doctor Right| 8.27.12 @ 7:36AM
No, they don't.
They're a dangerous regime of Islamo-nut jobs.
And they need to be taught a serious lesson.
You have it backwards if you don't understand that simple fact.
Israel is a Democratic nation, and a reliable ally.
CrackerHound| 8.27.12 @ 11:43AM
I tend to agree with you good doctor, however, I have serious concerns.
Number 1... we are beyond flat broke. We can't afford even a minor military action. Where will the money come from?
Number 2...Is our military capable of fighting a war?...what with our first openly gay female general and our serious "rules of disengagement" that our military has adopted. Strung out, demoralized, politically correct, and dysfunctional only begin to describe our forces at this point. As a US Army veteran and supporter of the troops...I'm just calling it as I see it. In any "war" that you intend on winning, you must be willing to kill and die... I do not see a willingness from our leaders for either anymore. That's just the truth of war. What we have been doing lately is spending and pretending.
I don't know what the answer to Iran should be under the current circumstances. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. As unattractive as it is, we might just have to do what we can to prevent Iran's nuclear quest short of war and simply make a statement if Iran ever uses a nuclear weapon, we will destroy them with our own.
I'm just saying that our economic destruction is just around the corner. We are one event away from anarchy, food and water shortages, and violence that could make us miss the days of brinksmanship with Iran.
Doctor Right| 8.27.12 @ 11:51AM
Number 1: Hopefully from the repeal of ObamaCare and the Ryan Plan for MediCare.
2. Yes. We don't even need ground troops. Daisy-cutters, 32,000 lb. "bunker-busters," and a few well-place Tomahawks will do the trick.
Allowing Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon is equivalent to letting Hitler march into the Sudetenland and proclaiming him as someone who wants "...peace in our time."
How often have historians mused that Hitler should have, could have been stopped???
Stopping the Islamo-Nazis pursuit of an atomic bomb is the most pressing MORAL issue facing the Western world.
These people CANNOT be reasoned with like the Soviets; they worship death and destruction and will NOT hesitate to use it.
They MUST be stopped. Period.
If Iran unleashes a nuclear war in the Middle East, then "the economy" won't matter a hill of beans because it will cause a worldwide depression that will make the 1930's look like a week-off without pay.
Thom| 8.27.12 @ 5:52PM
CrackerHound,
Two points, we are already in a war with these folks on different fronts; we were flat broke on Dec 7th, 1941 too. We are spending a lot to maintain a high level of readiness while executing halfarsed measures that violate about every tried and true military strategy known. Our ground forces are too small for the kinds of operations we are engaged in. We are wearing out both equipment and men with labor/time intensive defensive strategies while our enemy sits and waits us out. They spend hundreds of thousands, we spend billions. A guy with a bomb vest can kill as many as a 16 million dollar Reaper armed with Hellfires being flown by a pilot seating comfortably in a cushioned chair inside an air conditioned room 12,000 miles away using a satellite based communications infrastructure costing tens of billions. We can’t afford to kill a 50,000 man Taliban force by these means. Meanwhile the Navy and Air Force are saving money by using green fuels costing $27 and $59 a gallon respectively.
If the Israelis take matters into their hands we are going to be in a delicate situation for sure. If Iran does not engage our forces in retaliation then we will be looking at not using our defensive missile batteries to knock down their missiles traveling over the Gulf, SA and Jordan on their way to Israel. If we engage their missiles then we risk being drawn in. If it starts it won’t just end quietly.
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:20AM
They are right wing media. Personally, I don't think that there is an ounce of truth in the whole of American politics anymore. But that doesn't stop the right or left, from talking, now does it.
Jack in Wi| 8.27.12 @ 6:47AM
Israel and it's Neoconservative supporters have been runnning around like Chicken Littles yelling the sky is falling about Iran's imaginary nuclear weapons program since at least 1992. Old man Bush did not fall for it. Neither did his dim witted son. The same goes for Clinton and Obama. If Romney wins he won't fall for it either. The intelligence and military establishments both here and in Israel know that Iran is not developing nulear weapons. They have said so many times. Why should the Iranians waste the time and money? They know they would be destroyed if they tried to use any nuclear weapons. The rogue regime is in Tel Aviv not Tehran. It has 500 nuclear weapons and is led by a certifable lunatics like Netanyahu, Barak and Liebermann.
Israeli public opinion by polling has been very against another war. It is time to stop this nonsense now. The world does not want another world war. Which is where an unproved attack on Iran would lead. It is time to do with Iran what we did with China. Lets send and ambassador, end sanctions, trade with them ,and communicate with them. The price of oil would collapse and the world would be a better place.
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:17AM
But it's election time. Mitt Romney is failing to inspire Americans. The right has to do something to bump up their campaign. And we need to buy more from Mitts buddies too, so this is just wetting the wheel, for the right wing fantasy to grind on.
Doctor Right| 8.27.12 @ 11:52AM
Speak for yourself.
The man who "failed to inspire" enough people was Ron Paul.
Thankfully, that moronic crank is retiring.
Von Mises Jr| 8.27.12 @ 8:39AM
I don't believe Israel knows when they may attack. I think it depends much on the next two months in the United States.
If Obama looks like he may win based on the Electoral College, their motivation must be to try and influence the election. If Obama remains in Office, they can be sure that there will be no help for four more years.
If Romney/Ryan pulls ahead, expect lots of meetings between Bibi and Mitt. I suspect the visit recently was primarily closed door meetings about this critical issue.
I think it is the American electorate that will make the difference.
Bob K| 8.27.12 @ 10:03AM
There are even Iranian diplomats who believe in taking the nuclear option off the table. See this column in today's Asia Times:
http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NH28Ak03.html
Von Mises Jr| 8.27.12 @ 10:11AM
The Canadian Free Press has a completely different view. They posit that the October Surprise may be Obama's attack on Iran.
The article explains that our regime has delivered Egypt and Libya to the Muslim Brotherhood and that the Shite regime in Iran will also be toppled.
This makes sense with D'Souza's explanation of creating an Islamic States of the Middle East to control most of the worlds oil.
http://www.canadafreepress.com.....icle/48038
TLP| 8.27.12 @ 5:53PM
Not a chance.
His #1 Biotch - Valerie Jarret, was Born in Iran. Hamas believes that he is The Deliveror, sent by Allah, to Destroy the Jews, and Deliver Jerusalem back in to Muslim Hands.
His October Surprise will be to Excuse Mortgages, or Student Loans, by Executive Order.
Count on it.
Bob K| 8.27.12 @ 6:24PM
I think that there are far too many Shia's in the near east to neutralize them. And they are concentrated in very difficult areas to subdue. Libya has a relatively small population and was easy to subdue. Syria, which has a small minority of Shias has been much harder to handle because of the support it has been getting, overtly from Iran, and not so overtly from who knows.
The population of Iran is some 75 million or more and most of it is concentrated in the North and Northwest of the country around the Caspian Sea region which it shares with Russia to it's north.
Certainly Russia and China are aware of this proposed plan (even if it currently exists only in concept) to create Islamic States of the Middle East. Nothing realistic could be done without their cooperation.
Whether or not it is politically acceptable in the US is another question that has to be resolved.
Von Mises Jr| 8.27.12 @ 6:54PM
I hope you guys are right. I am just reporting what my friends brought to my attention. Who knows except bad shit will happen as long as this guy is around.
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:13AM
Still lighting those candles and worshiping government as you kneel at your alter of mitt romney I see Von Mises Dipshet. Watch Hannity, listen to Mark Levin, do you now? That's good, now just keep wiping your drool before you short circuit your whole trailer park.
TinaB| 8.27.12 @ 6:55PM
I believe so also, Von Mises Jr.
Ironic, is it not, that America, which some say appears nowhere in End-times Prophecy, is on the verge of making a monumental decision affecting God's Chosen People. Does that mean we are sealing our own fate in November? Of course it does.
Mike W| 8.27.12 @ 8:42AM
Babbin and his neocon buddies have been spouting this nonsense for years. In fact they have predicted 5 out of the last 0 attacks on Iran.
It won't happen.
Babbin needs to come back out and admit that he is a neocon tool and quit trying to play the moderate middle of the road game.
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:07AM
Oh no, non non no, every single word of the American Right is solid truth. It is never opinion, or conjecture. The rights medias are so far above the left, that there is never any hate in any of it. All that you ever see is the gods honest truths here, on all right wing sites, and tv and radio.
(the above is the dementia of a common right wing hack believer, as seen on these boards, and all right wing outlets. wonder why the right is still losing today? because it plays to, but always underneath the left. it hasn't got a game of its own anymore. just like it says in the cult classic "Friday" "no he's got game". Nope, the right hasn't got game today whatsoever. Sorry right, but you suc--
Von Mises Jr| 8.27.12 @ 11:10AM
troll alert
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:36AM
Von Mises Jr, you are a crap eating moron. All that you know how to do is worship and be dependent on government. All that you do is drool over romney, and you don't care who he is. I was on the first breitbart site. And the second. I don't like the third. You have no idea who I am. And you are ignorant and shallow, a new low for the right, in a year of new lows. When you look back you will see how all that you did this year was eat crap. And I can say that I didn't buy it.
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:41AM
You obviously aren't smart enough to have been on the breitbart sites, or you'd know who I was. I was the one that everyone repeated daily on foxnews. Even Bill O'reilley has agreed with me. You are a worthless little shallow minded hate monger who can no longer see the truth. Some of us have moved on after romney, but not you. Oh no, you'll cling to your dependency until you lose your worthless little mind.
Von Mises Jr| 8.27.12 @ 1:01PM
Is that you perp?
CJW| 8.27.12 @ 2:19PM
Von
I believe you are correct. I said the same last week.
Same nonsense. Latest diversionary tactic is to state you are a conservative, tea party, then attack Romney/Ryan. Same with the commie twins, probably same person.
Paul McGrath| 8.27.12 @ 4:49PM
TPN,
Saying that O'Reilly agrees with you is not exactly a selling point around here. Most conservatives view him with a certain amount of disdain.
Most on the left, however, believe that conservatives worship at the altar of O'Reilly, which makes me wonder whether you, in fact, are truly a conservative.
No. I think you're a fraud.
TLP| 8.27.12 @ 5:54PM
He's a Self Serving Moron.
I sh*t biggern him.
Tom Kyba| 8.27.12 @ 12:04PM
It's a bird! No, it's a plane! No it's...never mind. It's nothing.
Al Adab| 8.27.12 @ 9:39AM
The Iranian lust for nuclear weapons is not simply Israels problem. Here is an issue which the U S could have addressed ten years ago and failed to do so. I suppose that makes it "Bushs' fault" just as N. Korea would be Clintons' fault. Why the U S is so interested in a small nation doing our dirty work escapes me. The purpose and potential use of an Iranian weapon should concern the entire world. Why Russia and China feel it is in their interest to assist Iran is beyond belief. The United States and its allies have the ability to prevent this dangerous proliferation of these horrible weapons. They should act accordingly.
Mike G| 8.27.12 @ 10:40AM
I'm not certain we can rule out an attack by Israel before the election. Might an attack before the election boost Obama's chances of winning? A President's approval rating always goes up when we're attacked. If Obama sees the election slipping away, might he encourage Israel to attack, knowing that Iran would retaliate by attacking us?
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 11:00AM
I'm not going to say that you didn't take your medicine this morning, I'm going to say that you haven't taken your medicine for weeks. You just asked for Israel to attack Iran. Wouldn't feel the same way if you lived there I bet. Now go see your doctor, and take your prescription before you post again.
Audax| 8.28.12 @ 5:50AM
If israel waits until after the election they may have factored in an Romney win.
TeaPartyNow| 8.27.12 @ 10:56AM
Sorry BB, turns out that the American People have not even been taking care of America for the last thirty years. We are much worse off than I thought. Pray that obama gets elected, and things stay as they are. With Romney, he will start a War, and spill your blood, only to be able to spend taxpayer money on his buddies who financed his campaign, who will supply his war.
The American right doesn't know or care what Mitt Romney is. They focus on hate of obama, never solutions to our problems. I am sorry BB, we all must pray for American and for Israel. But God knows that no one in American can help themselves anymore. Trust in God, is all I say today.
MelvinNC| 8.27.12 @ 11:04AM
Wait just a damn minute. Lets slow up this, "Those Filthy Jews Parade." How soon everyone forgets or at least doesn't want to openly admit that the Arabs want Iran throttled as much as anyone, and willing to let Israel do the dirty work for them.
That has always been the Arab custom hasn't it? Let some other nation get bloody, while the Arabs come out smelling like roses, without a drop of blood on their dainty robes.
The House of Saud has as much riding on Israel curtailing the Iranians as anyone.
Nope not a drop of acrimony from the usual anti Israel crowd against the Arabs. Do we ever hear of comments about those Filthy Arabs? The silence is deafening in that department.
The way some of the usuals posts note is that the Iranians are as pure as the wind driven snow. But hypocrisy has always been a trait of the Left, Liberals, Progressives, and those who just plain don't like Israel.
Drunken Sailor| 8.27.12 @ 11:14AM
Exactly Melvin! Ask the Saudi's how they feel about a nuclear armed Iran. Would it surprise anyone to see them give Israel permission for a fly-over while publicly denying it?
Houdini| 8.27.12 @ 11:44AM
If Israel attacks Iran and manages to take out 80% of missiles and command and control systems and severely damages its nuclear facilities (a good start) that leaves Iran with a substantial amount of ordinance to reply with. If Obama wins in Nov., look for a joint statement from he and his new best friend Putin demanding that the Israelis cease firing. If the Iranians are as nutty as they appear, what's to stop them from replying with a non-nuclear WMD, and if just one of these hits a populated area like Jerusalem, how will the Israelis respond? This thing could go nuclear real fast. Especially if the Obama administration refuses to resupply Israel. If that happens, how do the Chinese and Russians respond? The only way I see this happening would be in concert with the United States and not only after the election, but after the inaguration as well(if Romney wins). Of course if the Israelis feel backed into a corner and Obama wins, all bets are off.
RCV| 8.27.12 @ 11:51AM
I think that Netanyahu knows that Obama will have no choice but to back Israel if it strikes before the election, and Israel's interests are (and should be) Netanyahu's first priority.
Obama's speech when the October strike occurs: "While the United States would have preferred that this crisis be solved by diplomatic means, Iran has resisted every effort to do so. Every nation has the right to protect itself. While we wish this hadn't proved necessary, we understand Israel's actions today and believe the world is better off without the grave threat of an Iran armed with nuclear weapons. I am ordering US forces in the region, and in the Gulf, to be on heightened alert. We will assist the Israelis in defending against any attack by Iran on any of our friends in the region, including Israel and Saudi Arabia."
Obama's support will rise 5% in the week after.
Houdini| 8.27.12 @ 12:05PM
Your scenario is why the Israelis should and will wait until after the election. Unless they are forced into it, the Israelis have no interest in helping Obama.
RCV| 8.27.12 @ 12:54PM
The pressure not to strike from the US and its allies will increase after the election, if Obama wins as the polls now lean. Netanyahu may not like Obama -- he clearly doesn't -- but he will always put Israel's interests first. If he strikes in October, Obama will have no choice but to back Israel.
Kingofthenet| 8.27.12 @ 1:30PM
You can't bomb in winter, and Israel doesn't have enough Air power or Air Superiority to do more than 1 run.
Audax| 8.28.12 @ 5:53AM
Since when can't you "bomb" in winter?
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 7:50PM
The Strategic Bombing Campaign in WWII was carried out in Winter, King. Israel may use things other than airpower. They have missiles on subs, too.
TLP| 8.27.12 @ 5:58PM
AFTER THE ELECTION?
Israel is on their own.
Let's not forget The Muslim's whisper to Medvedev.
And, then GFYourself Dumbass.
You couldn't be Stupider, if you tried.
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 5:52PM
From your mouth to G-d's ears, RCV. I think the reverse would happen, however. If that is how YOU think Obama would react, no wonder you are voting for him.
Houdini| 8.27.12 @ 6:00PM
This close to an election, Obama can't afford to lose any support from his base of Israel haters and code pink.
TLP| 8.27.12 @ 6:01PM
What the Hell has happened to you, Occam?
RCV is THE ENEMY.
I feel like I don't even know you, anymore.
RCV IS OBAMA.
Snap out of it.
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 7:51PM
I like RCV as a person, TLP. I disagree with his policies. However, Bibi will strike when Bibi will strike, and that will be good.
However, RCV does NOT have Obama's views on Israel. The sad thing is that he THINKS he does.
RCV| 8.27.12 @ 7:10PM
Israel would be very foolish not to strike in October, and I think (and hope) they will. And I'm pretty confident Obama will say something pretty similar to what I quoted.
We shall see.
I see that Mr. "They didn't have a warrant before they arrested the raving maniac" is all upset because you are your usual gentleman. He's not used to anyone discussing issues rationally instead of behaving like a foul-mouthed junior high school student.
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 7:57PM
Well, you're open to a reasoned argument, RCV, and you don't hate your country. My disagreement with your worldviews are not Obama's, and you think they are. You are more along the lines of Joe Liberman.
But, hey, I always try to be nice, unless someone makes it impossible---(see "purp and the wet dream.") one attracts more with honey than with vinegar, etc.
I can be vituperative, as you well know, but I had my first cardiac echo at age 37, and it led me to try to be as kind as possible whenever possible to people. We really don't do that enough in our society; it is one of our few flaws as a society. My kids get hugs and kisses and "attaboy/attagirls" every night, and I tell my wife I love her as well.
As you kinow, life is short and uncertain. Thank you for the compliment, RCV.
But TLP, I admire you greatly, sir.
CJW| 8.27.12 @ 6:58PM
How will Israel jets attack Iran without the assistance of the USA?
Obama may give a pretty speech only if he thinks it will get him votes in Florida. He already has New York and California. But he will not provide the military assistance necessary for Israel to attack.
Thom| 8.27.12 @ 7:08PM
How Israel will get to Iran air space through US air cover and air defenses is the question that needs an answer.....
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 7:59PM
No US aircover over the area---we no longer protect Iraqi airspace, and the Saudis have green lit the attack. Israel also has refueling capacity. Need to get the game "Persian Incusion."
nathan| 8.27.12 @ 12:16PM
Although the evidence regarding their actions and intentions, contrary to what the writer says, is inconclusive, (even Israeli intelligence is not convinced they have now or are building anything) I would suggest you put yourself in their place for a moment or two. Indulge me.
Your neighbor to the east has the weapons and is unstable. The world's self proclaimed greatest power in 1956 overthrew your government in an unprovoked act of war over oil prices and installed a human rights violating kleptomaniac and continues to threaten you. Not all that long ago that same country backed your neighbor in a war that cost you 500K deaths.
You continued to be threatened from a country not too far away that has the weapons they wish to deny you. (They are not a signatory to the NPT and have never been inspected. You have.) Said country has conducted terrorist attacks inside your country and is bed with a known terrorist group, MEK. Despite whatever people think you say publically, members of that religious minority live in your capital, their temples are open, and a few of them serve in your government.
Given all this, what would any of YOU do if you were them? Take the necessary actions to defend your country as you have a right to do? Again you live in a dangerous neighborhood and haven't attacked anyone directly in a century but were occupied briefly after WWII. Comments please.
Skippy| 8.27.12 @ 1:44PM
If you leave out the batshit insanity of Islam, it all makes perfect sense.
Iran is just a poor friendly nation who is badly misunderstood.
nathan| 8.27.12 @ 2:00PM
Not QUITE what I said.
And again, Christianity has had it moments of insanity too. Was the Inquisition rational behavior? How about Puritanistan in New England? People going up and preaching anything other than the "approved" message were executed. Why do you think Madison was so adamant about religious freedom in the First Amendment? And the Salem witch trials?
And people practicing what religion systematically denied Indians in this country their fundamental rights? Ethnically cleansed them? Subjected them to what amounted to outright genocide?
And I didn't see a lot of muslims on guard at Auschwitz did you? Martin Luther was horribly anti-semitic and no doubt set the philosphical stage for what happened later.
And defend if you will the Catholic doctrine of deicide which was the basis for much of the persecution of Jews through the world and particularly in Europe and not formally repealed until 1948.
My point? A little humility here is more than a in order. This "holier than thou" attitude so many have is not remotely justified. Our history doesn't support it. And when we talk about "jihad" don't forget, we tend to say very little about those "noble" "christian" european imperialists who weren't that much different and were just as wrong.
Von Mises Jr| 8.27.12 @ 2:04PM
troll alert. nathan is perp.
nathan| 8.27.12 @ 2:33PM
Very insightful. Thank you. Anything else you would like to add? Like maybe saying precisely where I'm actually incorrect? Just curious. I mean care to educate me? Like in my second post, was I wrong about Martin Luther? The doctrine of deicide? Auschwitz? I could have added the the "noble" crusaders when they reached Jerusalem sacked the city and killed every Jew they could find. Or that one of the crusades sacked Constantinople and killed all their fellow christians they could find. That help? Or that during the Inquisition the safest place for you if you were a Jew was not in Europe but in the middle east in areas controlled by muslims? Is this TMI for you? I could have also pointed out that it was good "christians" in the south that were KKK members, burning crosses on Saturday night, in the pews Sunday morning.
Again, we need to remember that we, nominal "christians" have done more than our share of horrible things. We can't be complacent about this. Knowing full well what WE are capable of we have to absolutely do as Tom Paine said.
Houdini| 8.27.12 @ 6:12PM
Notice he doesn't deny it?
Von Mises Jr| 8.27.12 @ 6:56PM
It doesn't matter which $10 troll is which. They are uncovered and the jig is up.
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 8:00PM
Muslims supported Auschwitz significantly and other things like it---the Grand Mufti was aware of the Holocaust. And Muslims fought with the SS, Nathan.
By the way, you are an antisemitic cocksuck, you know?
KyMouse| 8.27.12 @ 1:02PM
Even people who despise Israel must admit that the little nation, about the size of New Jersey, has had an astonishing (re)birth and growth, in spite of attacks by neighboring nations. Against all odds, Israel has prospered and become a blessing to the world, through Israeli inventions, pharmaceuticals, and more.
I am among those who see this as God's plan, as foretold in the Bible. God has long had a covenant with His Jewish people concerning their rights to that land, and He always keeps His word. See Jeremiah 46:27-28, Psalm 121:4, and Ezekiel chapters 37-39. Lots of other passages, too.
And it has all come true, just as the Bible said it would.
That is not to say that terrible times aren't coming, because the Bible says there are -- but God is carrying out His plans. Watch.
"Some trust in chariots, and some in horses, but we will remember the name of the Lord our God." -- Psalm 20:7
Kingofthenet| 8.27.12 @ 2:12PM
Doesn't God's 'Plan' End in Armageddon? and you want to hasten this outcome? Isn't this a bit of 'Death' Cult talk?
BTW: Did you tell your 'good' friends the Jews, that they are going down when this happens?
KyMouse| 8.28.12 @ 10:32AM
News flash, KOTN: The Bible passages I cited are found in the Tenach -- the Old Testament.
For example, ever read Ezekiel chapters 37-39? They were written by a JEWISH prophet, at God's command. It's God who is warning His people about what is to come.
The Jewish prophets have been exactly right about Israel's future to date -- that God would force His Jewish people off their land for a time, because of their disobedience and suffer terrible persecution among the nations (Deut. 28:62-67). But one day, He would bring them back to the land He gave their forefathers, and even though the whole world is against them, they would never be driven off that land again (Amos 9:15).
Notice again that I am referring to Old Testament passages, given by God through Jewish prophets.
As I said, terrible times are coming, and no one will enjoy them. But whatever God does is for the good, ultimately, and we must trust His judgment.
His will WILL be done -- to gentiles as well as Jews.
Kingofthenet| 8.27.12 @ 1:27PM
Here is a little secret, NO ONE is going to attack Iran and here is why, they ALREADY have the 'Bomb' there are many reports they managed to get a few Nukes from former Soviet States after the breakup of the USSR, but wait maybe they didn't get one? Well here is the thing Iran TODAY has enough enriched uranium for 10+ bombs and is producing MORE every day.They also have mastered domestically enrichment and centrifuge production and missile tech., all the important steps to have a bomb ANY time they want. Not that Iran is going to build a bomb anyway, they are going to be happy to continue to do what they have been doing, building expertise and capability stopping short of building a bomb unless they are forced too. Iran knows just like everyone else that having the materials and skills to build a bomb in short order is THE SAME THING as doing it but without the worldwide condemnation. There WAS a time for Israel and others to stop this program, like what was done in Syria and Iraq, you hit the programs in the Embryonic Stages, you don't let your adversary build up domestic expertise and procedures because replacing war damaged equipment is child's play, it's the experience that is hard to acquire. Israel and the world is too late by about 10-15 YEARS
Skippy| 8.27.12 @ 1:47PM
So Israel should just surrender, or should we?
Kingofthenet| 8.27.12 @ 1:58PM
The reason why this Iranian problem is so difficult to solve is that it has more than one goal, and it's hard to serve two masters.IF your goal is prevent Iran from building a bomb or enriching to Weapons Grade Level, that would be EASY to do. Offer them an end of Sanctions in return for a TIGHT inspections regime.But of course that is NOT the real goal of the USA and especially Israel. They want Iran to not have the Capability to produce Nuclear Materials, much less Weapons, the theory being IF they don't have that domestic capability they can NEVER cause a problem ever, but that is a 'Red Line' Iran won't cross.
Drunken Sailor| 8.27.12 @ 2:09PM
Why would Iran build trigger devices if they did not want to build a bomb?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05.....wanted=all
Kingofthenet| 8.27.12 @ 2:26PM
No doubt they are secretly working on a bomb, along with prepping unknown x sites, and stockpiling material and machines, to reconstitute a war damaged program. The problem is what you do with the KNOWN material they already have? Let's say they don't ALREADY have small enrichment sites that are unknown, let's say an attack by Israel is VERY successful and destroys MOST of what it wants to do, what can we be certain of? Well for one, they will drop out of the NPT and kick out ALL international inspectors. That what they have left will go BLACKSITE and underground DEEP, with the perfectly reasonable goal(Considering they were just attacked first) to build a weapon to defend themselves. Now they ONLY need 1 Weapon and one test device. So you further refine what they ALREADY have to Weapons Grade, set off the 'test' device and tell the world to back off or the NEXT 'Test' goes off over Tel Aviv, so what is Israels NEXT move than?
nathan| 8.27.12 @ 3:41PM
Depending again on who and what you read, there's PLENTY of doubt. I mean this was being discussed during the SHAH's time. Sheesh. Believe or not there's no consensus on this, not even among the intelligence agencies based on public domain reports. Given the doubt that exists are the Beach Boy crowd here really willing to see the Dow go from 13 to 7, unemployment go to real term 20 percent or more, oil to 4/5/6oo a barrel, gas in this country from 4 to 6/7 maybe 8 a gallon? Close the straits and they will, and that is indeed what will happen. Impact the Saudi oil fields, eminently doable, and again the world's economy could go into a tailspin that could take five years to come back from even with strong push on our part to accelerate oil development here.
You Beach Boy folks need to understand precisely what you are signing on for. If this happens prepare to be out of work if you're not already, prepare to see stores closed, bread lines maybe. It could get that bad. If you think it's worth it, fine. Not all of us agree as to the necessity of doing this.
Thom| 8.27.12 @ 7:34PM
You don't understand Nathan. It is out of our hands. If a free Nation state sees it future threatened by a nuclear arming Iran who can't get through a week without public statements to the effect that the state of Israel needs to be eliminated from the world, you had better buy you a comfortable beach chair now before the price of plastic goes up beyond your means.....
Just saying....
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 8:04PM
The straits will be opened 13 hours after they are closed. Obama will have to do it, like he HAD to kill Osama.
Mistral| 8.27.12 @ 4:20PM
WMDs again? Who saw them and where? Let us have real hard evidence and not just Iraqi-style innuendo and perhaps. Zionism is the greatest threat to world peace at present and it needs to have its wings clipped. USA and UK could start by withdrawing any active support for Israel. There are many Jews who do not go along with Israeli aggression and subversive activities internationally and regionally. Why Mossad even spies on its so-called allies - what does that tell us about its furtiveness and general ill-will?
Mistral| 8.27.12 @ 4:23PM
Ron Paul is correct - US foreign policy is designed to reinforce the hatred of its enemies. Al-Q etc must be rubbing their hands with glee as the waistcoat bombers line up to sacrifice all for jihad. The USA and its lapdog allies are not vey intelligent.
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 8:02PM
What about Ron Paul stating that Israel's defence was up to Israel? How does that correlate to Mistral's comments?
Hmmm....could Ronnie be an antisemitic jihadist cocksucker like Mistral and Nathan?
OKC08GT500| 8.27.12 @ 4:33PM
This is the fulfillment of Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38-39.
And then after that, it gets really interesting.
Thom| 8.27.12 @ 6:52PM
It has never been a secret that Iran hopes to provoke an attack. Hopefully by Israel but they will accept the US as a proxy to move to the next level of the game. If attacked they will withdraw from the Nuclear Weapons Proliferation Treaty and start assembling their rocket forces with some level of nuclear warheads on top. We demonstrated in 1991we can’t find mobile missile launchers the size of school buses after they launch. The kind of real time tracking required to improve upon this will require our appropriate air assets operate inside Iran proper for extended periods of time. If Iran doesn’t get its excuse then it will continue doing what it has been doing all along and amass a stockpile of both mobile missiles and warheads unabated while the rest of the world waits for James Bond to deliver the court room level proof that Iran has a massive nuclear infrastructure for other that the obvious purpose.
Thom| 8.27.12 @ 6:53PM
It isn’t a nuclear bomb on top of an IRBM that Israel fears the most. It’s the one brought to them FedEx. What gets lost with Morons that comment on this subject is that it took us 15 years to build a powerful enough rocket to carry our first rocket bound nuclear bomb. Once you get the warhead small enough and of the H bomb type two people can then lift something many times more powerful than what fell on Nagasaki. People don’t build IRBM ranged missiles to put 300 lb convention warheads on. They are ineffectual. Rockets cost money, martyrs are cheap.
Can any of the Moron supporters of Iran spell out what Iran’s three decade beef with Israel is given they are 800 miles away and share no border with Israel? I won’t hold my breath on that one
Chief_Cabioch| 8.30.12 @ 6:47PM
does it occur to you the Russians and Chinese are helping Iran ?, how many years has the US been fighting proxy wars between the Russians, and the Chinese ?, do you remember who armed the Vietcong ?,
Audax| 8.28.12 @ 5:38AM
Does this mean Israel thinks Obama will lose the election?
Occam's Tool| 8.28.12 @ 8:04PM
Obama IS going to lose the election The support isn't there. No enthusiasm, or real hatred of Romney by non-Libtards Obama voters.
Chief_Cabioch| 8.30.12 @ 6:42PM
I dont believe Israel should strike first, I think Israel should surround it's self with anti Ballistic missile Batteries and when the Iranians strike, Israel will then have all the right in the world to wipe the Iranians off the map......if they make a premptive strike the world will turn against them, they should wait.....
Michael E. C. Moss | 8.31.12 @ 8:18AM
The other reason Israel will not strike before the US election is that it cannot afford another 4 years of Obama and does not want to risk throwing the US election to him by giving him an opportunity to suddenly do the right thing and support the strike.