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Car Guy
Goodbye, V-8s, the Engines That Could
This time, probably for good. And now even V-6s are in trouble.
(Page 2 of 2)
Hence, Ford is discreetly — but very clearly — moving away from V-8s in its big trucks, such as the full-size F-series pickup. There’s still one available — for the moment. But the rest of the engine lineup — the mass market engine lineup — is all V-6. Ford calls these engines — tellingly — Ecoboost. They’re smaller displacement engines with a turbo (or two) bolted on to provide on-demand power but the better fuel efficiency of a smaller engine the rest of the time.
Turbos — and superchargers — are seen as the only technically feasible way to match (or at least, come close to) the power/performance of V-8s while still making the CAFE cut.
Well, is all this actually bad?
That depends on your perspective.
From the perspective of the automakers, it’s good. Because it gets Uncle off their backs — at least, temporarily — and increases their profit margin, since they simply pass on the costs of the more expensive powertrains (including maintenance costs) to customers.
From our perspective, as consumers, it’s not such a good deal. We pay more up front — and while that will be somewhat mitigated by reduced fuel consumption, those savings may — and probably will be — swept away by down-the-road maintenance and repair costs. Smaller, higher-stressed engines tend not to last as long as larger, less stressed engines. A force-fed (turbocharged or supercharged) engine is not likely to be a trouble-free 150,000 mile engine. Maybe these new-generation turbo’d and supercharged engines are built tougher — and will last longer. Or at least, as long as a similarly powerful, but less stressed, V-8. We’ll see. If they don’t, look out. Replacing a turbo on a late model car is typically a $2,000-plus job. Many of these CAFE-engineered new cars have two of them.
That’s that. Another thing is that the fuel economy gains are often not very impressive — on an individual vehicle basis. For instance, the current Ford F-truck’s available 5 liter V-8 rates 15 city, 21 highway. Not great. But the EcoBoost 3.5 liter V-6 (which makes about the same power as the V-8) comes in just slightly better, with a 16 city, 22 highway rating.
You’d think that extra 1-2 MPG would be irrelevant, but it’s crucial…. CAFE-wise. Ford sells on the order of half a million F-trucks each year. If each one costs Ford (and thus, customers) even as little as $300 more in gas guzzler taxes per vehicle, when multiplied by half a million, that becomes real money, real quickly.
So, here’s what to expect:
V-8s are going to get scarce. And I mean exotic-scarce. Last go’round, CAFE made it a lot harder for a working class person to own a V-8 powered new car. But if you were comfortably middle class, it was still feasible. There were Crown Vics and Town Cars.
Upper middle class, no problem. $50k would do the trick — doable for a professional couple.
This time, V-8s will become the exclusive playthings of the very affluent only — people who can afford to spend $70k-plus for a low-volume (and so, CAFE irrelevant) car. Jaguar, for example, will probably continue to offer a V-8 in the ultra-performance (and ultra-expensive) XF-R version of the XF luxury-sport sedan. Mercedes will still offer V-8s in the E and S Class… for those few who can handle the freight.
What there won’t be anymore are cars like the currently available Chrysler 300 C Hemi and the bet-you-it-gets-canceled-soon Chevy SS; that is, cars — and trucks — for regular people and intended to be sold in volume.
Of course, Obama — and the next Dear Leader — will still get to drive around in cars powered by big V-8s that get far less than 35.5 MPG…with the gas bill paid by taxpayers.
And that’s just the way they want it.
About the Author
Eric Peters is an automotive columnist and author of Automotive Atrocities: The Cars You Love to Hate (Motor Books International) and a new book, Road Hogs.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (105) | Leave a comment
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Appleby| 8.24.12 @ 6:41AM
Another attempt to take anything uniquely American out of America. Perhaps Paul Ryan will take this on.
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 10:25AM
Actually Romney is already talking about energy independence in eight years. Which is eminently doable. Really, just ask Obama's GAO Director of Natural Resources and Environment, Anu Mattrel. On May 10 this year, Anu reported that a single oil shale field in Colorado and Utah contains as much oil as THE KNOWN RESERVES ON THE PLANET.
Don't take my word for it, look here: http://science.house.gov/sites...../HHRG-112- SY20-WState-AMittal-20120510.pdf
Anu said that these reserves are available-all we have to do is get the government out of the way.
And if you have any doubts about oil being available for the next 100 years, check out this report by the well-known cesspool of right-wing crack pots at the John F. Kennedy Center for Government at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Again, don't take my word for it, lookee here: http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/files/Oil- The Next Revolution.pdf
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 10:26AM
In short the results of directional drilling and hydraulic fracking that has driven the price of natural gas from 2006's price of $7/thousand cubic feet to 2012's price of $2/thousand cubic feet is now being unleashed on onshore oil deposits, which are huge. Currently the world produces 78-79 million barrels of oil a day - demand is around 72 million barrels - not a good time to being going long on oil futures...(Prices will have to fall to absorb the excess, won't they? - You betcha!)
Afraid of fracking? The Kennedy School report states that fracking was first done in 1947 - and there have been 17 - 18 instances of fracked wells having pollution problems - of the 20,000 wells fracked to date.
So I credit Romney with being smart enough to figure out what's going on in the world and attaching his horse to the front.
Unlike the idiotic Obama who has attached OUR horse to the backside of world and is pulling against history. As he usually does.
Eric, think the V-8 is going away?
Remember how they took our 100 watt incandescent light bulbs away? Effective January 1, 2012! That lasted about fifteen seconds when it finally hit the mainstream consciousness.
Don't worry about your V-8 - vote the socialist morons out, America, and it's back to the races!!!!
Don't Tread On Me!
Dave Williams| 8.24.12 @ 12:43PM
The eco-nazis haven't given up on the 100-watt incandescent bulbs; they've just delayed the ban until, fortuitously enough, this November. If the RNC had any brains, they'd highlight this as an example of the very clear choice that voters have, between one party that wants to micromanage their lives, and the other one, that promises freedom....but nah...
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:46PM
I hate shopping for light bulbs. It gets worse every time. The light bulbs today suck donkey turds.
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 12:28AM
Tea Party Now: you overestimate the effectiveness of those lightbulbs. :-)
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:53PM
Romney is deferring the fight to each state. He is saying that he would give the right to federal lands to the states. Which would mean that each state is on its own. I would be surprised if romney actually confronted the problem himself.
Obviously, it would be a plus for some states, and for energy as offered to consumers. But if he offers this as the fix all, I will knock him out of the sky, politically. Mitt Romney is not qualified to lead America away from further decline.
I'll watch his d- convention, but his plans are pathetic at best, for what ails this nation.
We need a true conservative, if we want to cease decline, and start moving back up into freedom.
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 4:20PM
You have only TWO choices. Not five or six. You can't get Ron PAul, or Rick Santorum, or Michelle Bachman.
It's Obama or Romney.
How stupid are you going to be?
Besides Reagan was a little gamey at first, too. Especially in '76. Romney might surprise you.
Obama sure won't!
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 12:29AM
I'm voting for the Mormon guy. I'd like to see the US go the way of Utah.
Chief_Cabioch| 8.30.12 @ 7:10PM
I'm guessing as opposed to mirroring Kenya
TrueBlue | 8.24.12 @ 7:55PM
Thing is the Constitution is pretty specific about government owned land, it is only to be used for necessary government buildings; so all that federal land SHOULD be state-owned in the first place. All he's doing is reading the dang founding document at its word instead of trying to "interpret what they really meant." He's getting the fed out of it and you STILL complain.A true leader will give a task to his people, then get out of the way and let them figure out how to do it.
Guess what, get the government out of the way and the people will take care of the rest. We don't need someone to tell us what to do every step of the way, we need someone who will give us a goal and then let us go about getting it done.
scotchieguy| 8.25.12 @ 7:02AM
It's a little late in the game for talk like that. Who do you recommend?
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:56PM
Or perhaps you could learn not to depend on government for your sustenance, stand on your own two feet, and take this on yourself. I'm sorry, but your blatant ritual worship of your own dependency is just sickening as all h-.
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 4:22PM
TPN,
Who the heck are you talking to?
Yourself?
DTOM
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 8.24.12 @ 6:50AM
I've driven V-6's with more power and pep than the 442 Oldsmobile I had in high school. In fact, I have a V-8 now.
But time moves on and engines and technology are getting more efficient and more powerful with less.
Yeah, the EPA should be cut in half or shut down. But this isn't the driving force that will do it.
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 10:32AM
Furthermore - the auto industry is just beginning to find out the benefits of direct fuel injection applied to gasoline engines. It radically increases power, cuts pollution, and improves gas mileage. This 110 Sterling-cycle gasoline engine technology is just getting warmed up.
You will soon be seeing 1.3 - 1.5 HP per cubic inch. So your 427 cubic inch Chevrolet V-8 could easily put out 640 HP, meet today's stringent pollution requirements and with a 9-speed automatic transmission easily give you 25 mpg (not while producing 640 HP, BTW...)
America - you ain't seen nothing yet!
Just vote these morons out, just do that, please....
Don't Tread On Me!!!!
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 10:32AM
DOH, shoulda been "This 110 year old Sterling-cycle..."
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 10:39AM
BHOS - You should drive a modern, fuel injected V-8. The V-6 is pretty tame compared to what we've had available lately...
There is more computing power in a single 2012 automobile than there was in the whole country when that 442 was built. And we were travelling to the moon, running nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers, when that 442 was built.
This is NOT your father's Oldsmobile - heck -it is certainly not your father's GM anymore...
C'mon America - you can do it. Vote the socialist greenies back to their yurts in their smelly communes! Talk about pollution - smelled any patchoulli lately? UGHHH!
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 8.27.12 @ 7:38AM
I have a modern fuel injected V-8. I drive past people each day thinking, "You should have had a V-8." That won't change the outcome.
scotchieguy| 8.25.12 @ 7:04AM
Notice how the people who bitch the most about the demise of the V8s are the same people who bitched about the demise of the horse and buggy, the typewriter, and the VCR?
btims86| 8.24.12 @ 6:54AM
On the way out and for what? Because they consume "too much" fuel? We have hundreds of years of oil, just in the US, why don't we drill and refine it? Because it is polluting? Nonsense. Trivial. Today's vehicles pollute very, very little.
It's all about centalized government power. The Ivy League/Beltway elites want "green energy". It's that simple. One problem. We will never power a country the size of ours with windmills nad solar panels..........unless we are all brow-beaten into accepting a lower standard of living. Considering the 24/7 propaganda we are subject to, especially among the young (school kids), we are well along the way to accepting that lower standard.
Kwan| 8.24.12 @ 7:20AM
This is good news for the social-engineers of the left who would rather see us driving good little socialist type cars similar to the Renault Dauphine. Those big powerful V-8 engine cars are nauseating reminders (to the left) of a time in America when they and the environmentalists were not controlling what sort of vehicle that they decided we must drive. It's all about constructing one of those dull and dreary communist societies where the individual is suppressed by an all-powerful State.
Who Know?| 8.24.12 @ 7:31AM
If small efficent vehicles were practical people would still be driving chevettes, but they are not for most people! I remember an old four cylinder astro van I had, with four people in it, it would barely pull us up a hill , let along an actual mountain! Could you imagine living in a place that actually let you decide how big of an engine you need, and not a bunch of corrupt "MORONS" in a far off city that NEVER worked a day in their life!
Who Knows?| 8.24.12 @ 11:22AM
Hi, "Who Know?"
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:42PM
Holy dear God, do you live in Texas? Here in Washington State, home of the masses of poo eating moronic liberal nature nazis, these idiots all ride their freaking bicycles. I wanna come to where you are. I hate these bass tards, they feel superior as it takes them three million years to go shopping. You just want to slap them, but you know they'd splatter.
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 4:24PM
No one is stopping you from moving. Actually that is the idea behind the United STATES!
I left a liberal loser state - I like my new state a lot better - and here my vote actually matters!
Bob James| 8.24.12 @ 11:27PM
In TeaPartyNow's defense, Washington is only half of a loser state. Unfortunately, it's the "half" between the Olympics and the Cascades. Real Americans dominate the rest of the state. But, of course, the urban, leftist, latte-sucking, bicycle fetishists actually outnumber the real Americans in the entire state. God blessed Washington State with awe-inspiring beauties. He appears to be punishing the Godless-ness of the western portion of the state by letting it slide into a dystopian communist hell.
Bob
Formerly of Bainbridge Island, deep in *red* (commie) country.
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 12:31AM
I will probably retire in the Dakotas, and leave Minnesota when I'm done with the best job I will ever have.
scotchieguy| 8.25.12 @ 7:09AM
Nice strawman. The Chevette was possibly the shittiest car ever built. It was neither practical nor efficient. It had no power, not very good mileage, was cheap, ugly and unsafe. In fact, I haven't seen one in about 20 years. Thanks for reminding me of something I thought was safely and permanently gone from my conscience.
Albert Constantine Jr.| 8.27.12 @ 9:04AM
I live less than a mile from the plant where the Chevettes were built, and our Fleet used to have dozens of them. Now that you mention it, it is quite rare to ever see any on the road any more (or Vegas, Pintos or any other of that first wave of subcompact economy cars that were the solution to the fuel crisis of the early 70s.
pogybait| 8.24.12 @ 7:42AM
The issue is not V8's but rather the continued use of oil. Perhaps the administration could ask the people who developed Solyndra into a to global brand to create a new vehicle to meet these new mileage goals, as I understand they are looking for work these days.
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:35PM
Did you perhaps work for Mad in the past? I miss the old style American dark humor. Seems to have gone through the tubes with the rest of our fun, but it's nice to see that you still got it. Keep the faith and kick a donkey just for good measure.
Stormzeye| 8.24.12 @ 7:53AM
The issue is not the V-8 but personal freedom and a free market where utility and value determine whether people will buy a certain product. As the proud owner of an AC Cobra with a Roush V-8 and a large Tea Party sticker on it I've taken my stand.
R Martin| 8.24.12 @ 11:30AM
Good on ya. Less than three weeks now to the Goodwood Revival where we're celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Cobra. V-8 heaven. There will be races limited only to Cobras (field of 30-35) probably including a few Daytonas.
Moe Blotz| 8.24.12 @ 7:29PM
Pity Ol' Shel could not hang in there for a few more weeks.what? Lord March was probably hoping.
R Martin| 8.24.12 @ 8:42PM
Will you be there, Moe? If so, I'll buy you a real ale.
Moe Blotz| 8.25.12 @ 8:47AM
Thank you for your generous offer Mr.Martin, but the Goodwood Revival is still one of those events I can only dream about attending and I will read about it after it happens. You will have to drain the golden nectar from the beer engines without my help this year. Cheers!
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:30PM
My daily driver is an 04 malibu maxx, but every time I lay into it, my heart just goes "kiss off democrats, this is my power". Drive that thing with a vengeance baby. And never be afraid to love your freedom.
(there's no smoke coming out of 'em anymore, but it still feels good to lay into in...)
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:37PM
I drove a 71 and a 77 chevell in my youth, the malibu is its modern little sister.
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 4:26PM
I've got 425 HP under my right foot-built in 2006. You have no idea how good it can get...and comparing a '71 chevelle to a '77 chevelle is like Twain's comparison of lightning to the lightning bug!
OKC08GT500| 8.24.12 @ 7:54AM
They can have my Shelby GT500 when they pry my cold, dead hands from the steering wheel.
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:26PM
No way, I say if it is truly a Shelby GT 500, you had better find a way to take it with you. Shelby Cobras, 426 Hemis, no no no, these things are truly sacred.
OP4| 8.24.12 @ 8:10AM
There is one way to get cars that can perform and achieve high mileage - diesels.
I know that the mileage standards are about getting us out of or cars and into liberal approved cho-cho's because they have gone out of their to block the diesels Europeans are crazy about from reaching our shores.
The EPA has made diesel emission standards so strict and so confusing that only a few German ones make it here after being fitted with expensive urea filter kits.
Honda, Ford, Subaru, even GM's Opel division all sell lots of diesels over there but none here. Want to commute to work in the 65+ mpg Ford Focus diesel without the battery nonsense of a hybrid? Move to the UK, not allowed here.
Who Knows?| 8.24.12 @ 11:23AM
Diesels stink, though!
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 4:27PM
Actually not the high performance ones so much...
Moe Blotz| 8.24.12 @ 7:38PM
65 mpg on an Imperial gallon of diesel is equivalent to 52 mpg on a US gallon. The Imperial gallon is equivalent to five of our quarts and is available in the UK, Canada as well as other parts of Her Majesty's realm. Since most western countries sell by the litre now, you can get about 14 miles per litre of diesel fuel.
Louis Jenkins| 8.24.12 @ 9:18AM
I can see perhaps regulating the standards on automobiles, however, the EPA is going to regulate the pick-up truck into extinction. You own a car, you have a relationship with a truck. Nothing better than putting a fishing pole in the back and going with your dog down to the "hole."
Albertus Magnus| 8.24.12 @ 9:41AM
This is a false dichotomy. It does not need to be V8's or other. The key is fuel economy, which correlates with engine size, not # of cylinders. If one can manufacture a 4L V6, one could also manufacture a 4L V8. Same for 3L. V8's are inherently superior to V6's, because V8's are even firing, one cylinder fires every 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation. V6's, even 60-degree V6's are not even firing and uneven firing causes imbalance, which in turn causes stresses that lead to early wear and failure. V8's are smoother running and longer lasting engines, so I ask, why not produce smaller V8's? Manufacturers already are. In the 1960's and 70's V8's could be as large as 460 CID. Today, a 302 CID V8 produces more power than the old 460, is more reliable, weights far less, and already gets far better fuel economy. What is wrong with a 3.5L V8? Why must it be a V6? This is the trend for the future, not eliminating V8's altogether, which is frankly, stupid.
Lastly, CAFE standards are already high enough and don't need to be raised to 35.5 MPH. There is no oil shortage, only a shortage of intelligence in government. Today's high gas prices and supply limitations are creations of government for political purposes. We have no energy policy that actually encourages the production of energy. We have moronic, self-important bureaucrats who DIScourage energy production. This is stupid and self destructive, and will go on as long as American's keep voting for it.
JGW| 8.24.12 @ 11:28AM
I believe for several decades Formula One racing had a 3.0 Litre engine size limit and they were all V8s.
Ferrari came to fame with 4.0 and 4.5 Litre V12s in the fifties.
JGW| 8.24.12 @ 11:52AM
Also, you may recall the GM 3.5 Litre aluminum V8 from the sixties which was sold to British Leyland and found its way into MGs, Triumphs and Land Rovers.
Same era saw the Ford 260 cid and the Chrysler 273 cid V8s.
Wish I could remember the conversion for cubic inches to litres.
Someone want to help?
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 12:08PM
100 cc = 6.1 cubic inches.
So my 6.1 litre hemi is actually 372 cu inches
And your 5.0 liter Mustang was actually a 302 ci that was actually a 4.95 litre- but that didn't look so good on the fender.
Sorta' like 8.3% unemployment sounds better as 8 percent....
JGW| 8.24.12 @ 12:13PM
Thanks!
ebonystone| 8.25.12 @ 7:45PM
Before the 3.0-liter formula, it was a 1.5-liter formula from 1961 through 1965, and most of the winners used V-8s, although V-12s , sixes, and even fours were used. In general, all other things being equal, more cylinders means more power. But it also means a more expensive, and more complicated engine.
JohnTee| 8.27.12 @ 9:07PM
Not necessarily. Especially when you consider a 4 valve-twin turbo 4 banger against a much less sophisticated big pushrod V-8 like the incredibly powerful Z06 and ZR-1 Corvette V8s. This compromise made by the cash strapped GM to save money, worked out amazingly well thanks to good old American gearhead hot-rodding tech.
pogybait| 8.25.12 @ 8:56AM
Yes, technology, in electronics, robotics, metal and plastic have greatly contributed to improving the internal combustion engines of today. There is no question about the need to create V8's that are more efficient. However, it's truly wonderful to see that our glorious leader has finally taken the chains off of those workers at GM who make vehicles that burn EVIL OIL and allow them to create wonderful vehicles that just burn....NOW THATS PROGRESS.....
cicero| 8.24.12 @ 9:45AM
A few years back (one car ago), I was leasing Jag XJ8s, on the second lease turn. Could get them for less than a Caddie or a Lincoln. On the highway, I would consistently get 34 - 36 mpg. It was the best kept secret in the automotive industry. This is all about mass transit. They keep playing "bet you can't" with the industry. So far, the industry has won the bet. However, the new standards are above reach. That is what our fearless leaders want. Now we can all return to the good old days of walking to work, riding 19th century trains, and living in ant hills. Of course, that won't apply to them, because they will need to be able to do the "peoples' work".
OP4| 8.24.12 @ 10:05AM
Not everyone has won that bet. Chrysler and GM come to mind.
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:08PM
The unions killed those guys, not the government policy. Have you by chance seen any of the new challengers? Sweetest thing on the road in my mind. Cobras, half a hair below it. I don't know, that challenger just makes to blood flow baby.
No, the unions kicked and screamed until they milked their employers and the American taxpayer. But they are still puttin' 'em off the line.
OP4| 8.24.12 @ 2:04PM
Wow we have different tastes in cars!
But that Challenger is a good example of how CAFE will finish off Chrysler (the non-Fiat part) and GM. Their remaining customers like their big cars and SUV's, not econ-boxes. There is no way to make a big heavy thing like that Challenger meet those CAFE standards.
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:19PM
I know that this is scary, if you actually comprehend what I am about to tell you, but it is this way with literally everything in America. The American People have not been able to have any oversight whatsoever, of their nations governments for about twenty years now. Before that the American People had a very small amount of oversight control. But now absolutely nothing.
And this is set to continue under romney or obama. The American People don't know that it is actually the American Peoples own doing, what we have. Freedom is work. Yet everyone in America today, left right and in between all have their hands out like it falls from the sky.
We tend to blame our "leaders". But I ask you, who is in charge of these supposed leaders?
If you think about how much work the American People put in to freedom, and see that it amounts to zero, you'll know why everything is this way. Everything. The people don't know how to govern anymore. Or that it is up to us to do so.
SCPOret| 8.24.12 @ 9:45AM
They'll thake my '93 Mustang Cobra out of my cold dead hands because when they come they'll have to get through the "lead blanket" that will cover them from the gun they'll pry out of my cold dead hand.
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:00PM
Keep the faith baby. We have one too, never driven. We drive the 88 four speed V8 mustang police chase car when we need to feel some power. Tell everyone what the left has done to our cars, and literally everything having to do with energy. No one knows the whole story. Fight for what you love, and never give up being a full blooded American car driver.
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 1:03PM
I was supposed to say X. It's X State Patrol. Little highway rocket. And no body is touching it either.
G.S. Patton| 8.24.12 @ 9:59AM
Those who make the rules, ride in the black, government SUV's will never drive to the government health centers in a 1500 lb. piece of plastic. This isn't about the environment or v-8's. This is about the attitude adjustment the marxist left have sought to give the United States of America for decades. You can't control an individual who owns private property, has private health insurance, and sports a rifle hanging in the back window or his v-8 powered pick up truck.
Pecos Pete| 8.24.12 @ 10:11AM
Buy your V-8 pickup now, used or new, and store it until needed. Of course, the gobmint will sooner or later simply outlaw road use of anything bigger than a SmartCar. Farmers and ranchers and lots of businesses that haul goods and provide services will be forced to use horses/horse carts, mules/mule carts, and maybe ever Conestoga wagons pulled by oxen.
Kill the EPA!
Albertus Magnus| 8.24.12 @ 10:48AM
If you want to be able to buy V8's, the solution is simple. Don't vote Democrat. Corollaries to this axiom are: If you want to keep your own money, don't vote Democrat. If you want to make sure criminals go to prison, don't vote Democrat. If you want public education to focus on academics and not pop-psychology, don't vote Democrat. If you want a sane energy policy that encourages energy production, don't vote Democrat. If you want clean air without social engineering, don't vote Democrat. In short, if you want peace, prosperity, and freedom, don't vote Democrat. It truly is that simple.
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 12:51PM
What have republicans done for us lately? I have never voted democrats, it's like shooting yourself in the foot. But this year the right is just as bad as the left. 2012 choices are bad and worse.
Fortunately, my state republicans are still good enough to make me forego voting completely. Have a nice day. : )~
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 12:55PM
Oh gosh darn it, so sorry, type o. It should be not forgo. I will be voting for my state republicans this year. Sorry, no edit button. Just like there being 2 rest stops in the entire state of Utah, there are better ways of saving money than to skip essentials.
One womans opinion.
Albertus Magnus| 8.24.12 @ 1:57PM
Note: I didn't say vote Republican. I just said don't vote Democrat. Every serious problem we face today in this country can be traced to Democrat Party policy. (I haven't been a Republican for 15 years. I switched to "Tea.")
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 3:58PM
Oh thank God! Comments like yours give me hope for a future. Thank you for having mercy on me. So nice to find a conservative who doesn't sell its soul to win one election. The only thing worse than romney would have been paul. Pretty soon I hope, the right will regret its liberal friends.
I'm switching to Tea too. Thank you.
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 12:34AM
TPN: I think you are a very lovely person, but the choice is between a Traitor and a non-Traitor. Romney is a guy I don't support 100%, but I've gotta oppose Damien. Therefore, I'm voting for the Mormon.
By the way, I found no shortage of rest stops when driving through Utah.
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 4:31PM
I knew you were a girl! It was that 71 - 77 Chevelle thing that gave you away. But it's always nice to hear a member of the fairer sex appreciate HP and torque in her cars...
But you are gonna vote for RnR, right?
RichTex| 8.24.12 @ 10:53AM
I guess I should finally give up on my hope for the return of a reasonably priced V-12. Something equivalent to a modern version of the Lycoming V-12 Auburn introduced in 1932. And, it looks like I’ll keep my Pontiac G8 GT for a long time.
Al Adab| 8.24.12 @ 11:28AM
This is a perfect example of the impracticality of central planning and centralized government. Perhaps in states like NJ or CN (which are smaller than the counties where I live) there is no need for powered road cars. In the West however, where cities are hundreds of miles apart and a journey to a neighboring town may be 100 miles or so, power is needed to transit the hills and valleys along the highways. Travel along the interstates is essential and highway speeds (remember 55?) require more horsepower. Perhaps this is heresy to our government regulators who impose these standards. but they all commute by local rail and that is a total impracticality in the west.
TeaPartyNow| 8.24.12 @ 12:45PM
Nothing is forever but the heart of a true sentient. We can get our auto industry back, and we will. If we gat America back, the cars come with it. Keep the faith. We've got a beautiful V8 Chev 4x4, a V6 malibu (maxx), a mustang four speed V8, a mustang cobra V8, two V8 426 hemi mopar cars, a four banger toy 4x4, and a little honda 4 banger, and that's only for the two of us. Yes, we are a conservative family.
The American People are not being told how destructive liberal policy is on their cars. The cars of today are a nightmare to live with. And there is zero smog in the whole of America. We need to start telling the truth about the air, and our auto industry.
And I find it painful to know that detroit is liberal minded. After the liberal policies continually make life harder, and harder to even build a good car at all. Let alone expect to have that car be loved by someone. The truth about cafe standards is absolutely unknown to the American People. And that in and of itself should be considered a crime against the heart of a sentient.
(P.s., I [the woman] have the chevys, he has the fords, mopars, a toyota and a honda. I love my malibu, and it kicks donkey.)
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 12:35AM
Yes, Liberals and lawyers ALWAYS make life harder.
Petronius| 8.24.12 @ 12:57PM
The really hideous reason for CAFE mileage standards is WEENIES. Ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars. Midnight hot rodding after closing time is gone. Most of the bars are gone. Almost all of American Men are gone. And when Obama is re elected there will be a government crossing guard on every corner handing out tickets to every driver who doesn't stop in front of the stop signs on every corner. Jaywalkers will get tazed. The goal of the losers who control our polity is eliminating all the pleasures enjoyed by their betters. If I'm wrong, why are winners being persecuted? And why all the talk of banning football? Who has an aversion to competition? WEENIES!
Paul A'Barge | 8.24.12 @ 1:14PM
trucks.
screw the government and screw the cowardly marketplace.
drive trucks.
Moe Blotz| 8.24.12 @ 7:51PM
One of my mates drives a Peterbilt powered by a slightly warmed over C-15 Caterpillar making 700 hp and 2,250 lb/ft of torque. It will walk away from most of the weenie cars whilst pulling a full load.
Petronius| 8.24.12 @ 1:38PM
And get ready for the Solar Powered Association of Stock Car Auto Racing.
Albertus Magnus| 8.24.12 @ 1:54PM
"SPASCAR." I like it. Appropriate.
PHILLIPBERNAL| 8.24.12 @ 2:02PM
Why all of the commentary? The government has no business telling the auto makers what to produce or regulating what they produce. The auto makers exist now solely for the purpose of making money to support their unions who in turn bribe our politicos. American auto manufacturing died long ago. I would love to buy American, but the cars are not up to par with the VW's, Hondas, or Toyotas that I have driven all my life. So sad.
DTOM| 8.24.12 @ 4:35PM
Haven't driven a Ford lately, have you?
Nor a late model Hemi.
The quality gap has been pretty much closed. Now the question is are we going to save our own industry from our own government?
More Obama = more soccer sponsorship from GM. 'nuff said.
Trinacria| 8.24.12 @ 8:02PM
Negative, Kemosabe. You'll have to join me for a spin in the Maserati Gran Turismo. I assure you that you will not mistake it for a Ford (or God forbid, a GM!).
Fact is, the only thing coming out of US auto plants is shit (sure, it's better shit than the shit they were making in the 80s and 90s, but being less shitty than you used to be is hardly the standard against which those who make great things measure themselves). They might be figuring out how to make a car run better (better, not great), but they're still light years from being able to make it look good. The reality is that US auto manufacturers make cars for the masses (which is to say the lowest common denominator), and you don't make world class products targeting the lowest common denominator.
vigilant| 8.24.12 @ 3:52PM
Love the testosterone flowing through this thread (including from the ladies-you go, girls!). And we're gonna need it, as it's also known as "fighting spirit", as we continue to resist the weenifying attitude adjustments being forced down our throats. Excuse me while I go give my 5-liter V8 F150 a love pat.
Buck Ofama| 8.24.12 @ 4:27PM
"The sky is falling!" say the gubmint C0CKSUCKERS.
I own a Dodge V8, a boat with a big smelly 2-stroke outboard, and two other vehicles with BIG FVCKIN V8's.
SO FVCK THE GUBMINT.
pogybait| 8.25.12 @ 9:19AM
No matter how they brow beat, force, legislate and or destroy, the simple fact is that until we come up with a energy source that can propel the backbone of commerce.....that can replace the V8 engines, diesel engines and turbine engines.... Evil Oil is still going to be the fuel to propel commerce. I have yet to see a windmill/solar powered semi truck or airplane go from LA to NYC. If the environmentalists are so damn interested in saving our planet's resources wouldn't their first step be to stop eating and starve to death which would be the ultimate act of environmental activism to save the planet.
ebonystone| 8.25.12 @ 7:56PM
I really don't understand why anyone needs a V-8 these days. My current car has a 2.5 liter four, and it puts out about the same horsepower as my mid-60's 5.2 liter V-8 did. I can cruise all day on the interstates at 75, with the a/c running, and still get 28 mpg.
Of course, I did say "needs". I can understand wanting something like an Aston-Martin or a Ferrari, but I don't need one, and certainly can't afford one.
Fiscal| 8.26.12 @ 8:55AM
For that matter, you don't even need a car -- you can use public transportation. But any car person will tell you that it's not the horsepower, it's the torque. V-8's get their power from torque at lower RPM's and that's what makes acceleration off the line so good. Turbo 4's get their boost at high RPM's, so unless you are going to rev it up and pop the clutch, you don't get the immediate acceleration. (Incidentally, electric cars have the most torque at low speeds).
To combat this, modern 4's have 6 and 8 speed transmissions or even CVT's. I happen to have both a large V8 sports car and an econobox 4. They are both good cars, but I'm using the V8 less because small cars have gotten a lot better in quality over the past several years. I enjoy them both.
OKC08GT500| 8.26.12 @ 10:05PM
That's nice, but what is your 0-60 time?
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 12:39AM
Try slamming down the iceroad in Northern MN in winter and you will understand the need for a 4 wheel drive V8 GMC Sierra.
I have no love for my cars---they are tools that I lubricate with synthetics and bring into my dealer for their various checkups (my dealer picks the car/truck up at my office and returns it my office same day---I do my working and order pizza for my nurses and myself those days---this is a great country that Obama wants to kill), but I know the need for sheer power at times.
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 12:40AM
"it to my office" sorry.
rocky01| 8.25.12 @ 9:36PM
Thoughful article. Pray to The Maker that we clean house instead --and take our institutions and public policy back from poseur power elites.
We're Americans.
We will not suffer fools, thieves, beaucrats, ruler public servants, narcissists or demagogues.
rocky01| 8.25.12 @ 9:42PM
Add his coward-ness, "chief" justice roberts, to that list BTW. Pry my V-8's from cold dead hands.
ggoblue| 8.26.12 @ 6:53PM
you can kiss the boat industry goodbye too...how you gonna tow a boat without a truck? travel trailers....bye bye....millions of jobs...bye bye...
we need to hang a tree hugger from every tree. and soon.
bluecollarbytes| 8.26.12 @ 8:49PM
Underpowered pickups can use as much fuel as fully-powered ones.
I hope that Romney intends on taking our future back from the destructive forces of govt. Why not include 'freedom to choose transportation that suits the individual'? People can get emotional when you start screwing with their wheels and individuality expressed in vehicles. Hell yeah it's a serious issue deserving of national attention by the right side. Taking our rights away is systematic across every facet of govt.
Occam's Tool| 8.27.12 @ 12:42AM
Chief Justice scumbag Roberts the vermin? My comments about Lawyers and Judges need no further amplification. My comments opposing the Death Penalty not in principle but because it will be enforced by numbskulls like "look, mom, I can suck my own dick" Roberts need not be reviewed further here.
Rhoetus| 8.27.12 @ 12:42AM
Build your own Hot-rod.
JohnTee| 8.27.12 @ 9:31PM
One of the more enjoyable discussions on AS in a while. Who'da thunk there was a hard core of gearheads lurking here. A couple of points to add.
1.- I don't need a V8. I want one or even 2. Both of my Corvettes bring a smile to my face that can blot out the Obamaissar's ugly dumbo-eared mush. Believe me that's worth a bunch!
2.- The statists don't want economy, they want control! Throw the scumbags out!
3,- Thanks to the free market, there is NO LONGER ANY SHORTAGE OF OIL! Exploitation of our massive shale resources, by itself might even help to avoid our looming national national bankruptcy.
But it all depends on kicking the despicable one out of office.
CoachMac| 8.30.12 @ 8:46AM
The technology to get 100 mpg has been around for decades, and was even published in Popular Mechanics long ago. From what I have been able to find, it involves the vaporization of gasoline before it enters the engine. The patents were bought by big oil to protect their interests.
Here is one online article, and if you google "vaporization of gasoline" you will find many more. http://green.autoblog.com/2007.....ng-up-gas/
Why hasn't this technology been developed and put into production?
Chief_Cabioch| 8.30.12 @ 7:00PM
CM, yes, Mopeds have gotten that and better, if you are talking Cars, then you are buying a load, there has never been a successful 100 mpg carburetor regardless of claims.....
Chief_Cabioch| 8.30.12 @ 6:58PM
The V8 isnt the problemn, it's the weights of the vehicles, any good engineer knows a multi cylinder engine is best, the more the better, but putting such a good engine in a 5,000# truck isnt going to do well, they must build lighter vehicles if they are going to make these numbers, or switch to diesels,......
J Baustian| 8.30.12 @ 11:22PM
The cars I've driven since 1972 have all been four-bangers. And since 1987 they've all been turbocharged. The one I have now, a turbodiesel, is great for towing when I need to pull a utility trailer loaded with furniture or appliances or wood mulch. And it gets 40+ mpg when I'm not towing.
I don't have a boat or travel trailer; if I did, I'd buy a new or used truck now and keep it running for the next 20 years.
Lastly, there is a good chance that CAFE standards may go away, or be relaxed to the point that they become irrelevant. One can only hope.
Afi K. James| 9.3.12 @ 5:52PM
CAFE & EPA should be eliminated.