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Another Perspective

Blasphemous Chic

By on 8.22.12 @ 6:09AM

For Pussy Riot, and for Western intellectuals, desecration counts as freedom of expression.

(Page 2 of 2)

One of the punks was ecstatic after their sentencing because they had “brought the revolution closer.” I think she meant the overthrow of the Russian regime. I wonder if they have any idea what might replace it. Similarly, one wonders if the revolutionists of 1917 knew what they were doing and what would come after them.

What passes for “art” in the Western world today is often nothing but a cover for nihilism. You can be sure the punks wouldn’t have dared to try any such “stunt” in a mosque. They wouldn’t have lived to tell the tale. Only Christianity is regarded as an appropriate target today.

I don’t know what the Muscovites’ opinion of Putin is today but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that a majority supports him. Clearly the Russian leadership and the Russian Orthodox Church are moving closer together and they won’t be entertaining the “separation of Church and state” any time soon. Or, one hopes, an understanding of “freedom of expression” that turns out to more closely resemble profanity and desecration.

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About the Author

Tom Bethell is a senior editor of The American Spectator and author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Science, The Noblest Triumph: Property and Prosperity Through the Ages, and most recently Questioning Einstein: Is Relativity Necessary? (2009).

Letter to the Editor View all comments (126) |

Jack in Wi| 8.22.12 @ 6:49AM

Tom Bethell is one of the best writers here. It is too bad he isn't seen here more often.

Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 8.22.12 @ 11:09AM

You think prison is appropriate for such a minor offence?

Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 8.22.12 @ 12:05PM

let's discover who put the polonium in the sushi and out HIM in prison. If Putin ordered it, send him to Siberia, one way.

Peter| 8.22.12 @ 1:05PM

As someone whose family members were murdered by the Romanian Securitate under the Ceausescu regime, (in the name of Socialism BTW) that would be a big fat NO... My hope is one day is that every last Leftist who preaches this garbage meets a dreadful end...yes including the children in OWS... the Left has never been held accountable for what its done... Smash the Left and Obama

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 5:35PM

What happends in the Russian justice system should be of no concern of the United States or the UK or the EU or anyone else. Let them mind their own business and Russia will mind its own business.

Alej| 8.22.12 @ 5:53PM

Tochno... soglasen, Dmitry.

It is gross ethnocentricity to judge another culture strictly by what we are used to here.

Frouwa| 8.22.12 @ 10:32PM

It is not true. The Russian system of justice has comply with a number international conventions in regards of Human Rights and their protection, in the first instance European Conventions of Human Rights. People in Russia have to learn to obey the law. And first the step is not to build up more gulags and terrify population asking them to do what they don't know. The first step is to write clear and precise law.

Mistral| 8.23.12 @ 12:25PM

Yes and the USA infringes the territorial sovereignty of nations by supplying fringe groups with armaments against legitimate authority; it also exploits financial leverage to blackmail other nations into adopting unacceptable abortion and gat policies and it calls for freedom of speech for preselected political interests and not for others (gay groups but not Wikileakers).

DRA2012| 8.24.12 @ 12:00AM

AOFB, They didn't commit such minor offences, especially considering that this is the FIFTH time this protest group (NOTE: they are NOT a punk rock band, they are political activists) has carried out a vulgar public event, and you can add "premeditated" to all of the charges. These (in America) would include: Criminal Trespass, Desecration of a Religious Site, and Obscuring Identity during Commission of a Felony (ie. wearing those masks). These are all repeat offenders showing no sign of remorse - Russian law allowed up to seven years in prison, the Prosecutors asked for three, and the Judge only assessed two, less the six months they had already spent in prison. So 18 months when they could have received 78? they got off light.

Appleby| 8.22.12 @ 6:55AM

Just another excuse to yell Poo Poo in a church and call it Art.

I wonder if these brats realize, FULLY realize, that the mere fact that a church is open for worshippers to practice their faith and pursue the path of righteousness unto eternity is a massive step forward for freedom in a country that has marched through Hell? I wonder if any of these self-centred brats understand at all how very far their country has moved toward rejoining the human race, since they were born? I very much doubt they do. They appear to belong to the generation that has no past and knows no future. I am sometimes glad I will not live to see the world these people will create.

KyMouse| 8.22.12 @ 9:32AM

On my first trip to Russia in 1990, during the closing days of the U.S.S.R, our Communist guide led us into a famous church one afternoon. She was, no doubt, a carefully selected Intourist agent who could be trusted to give the party line to American visitors.

As we entered the church, some of us were respectfully silent, but most of the people in our group continued chatting away.

Our guide walked a little way up the center aisle, quietly, and facing the altar and in full view of many people, crossed herself.

I doubt that the rude chatterers in our group noticed her do that, but my sister and I sure did. Wow.

TinaB| 8.22.12 @ 9:59AM

Yes, Wow. KyMouse, your posts often encourage and enrich me. This one did also.

KyMouse| 8.22.12 @ 11:29AM

Thanks so much, TinaB -- you too!

Of all the souvenirs I've brought back from Russia, I think I treasure my little Russian Orthodox ring the most. A monk was selling them in a subway station. I'm not R.O., but I like the fact that the little silver ring -- which cost about $1 -- says something like, "Lord, help and preserve me." I wear it a lot.

And He does.

THKrupp| 8.22.12 @ 3:28PM

KyMouse,

I was also in the Soviet Union the summer of 1990..You didnt by any chance go there with People to People?

KyMouse| 8.23.12 @ 10:35AM

No, TH, I think it was just a tour that was arranged through a school. We had a really mixed bag of companions, including one incredibly obnoxious woman, so I think it was just a regular tour. I hope you had a great trip, too.

KyMouse| 8.23.12 @ 10:43AM

I'll just mention this incident with that awful woman. Our group had been told that, if we gave a Russian a gift, that person would want to give us something in return. Therefore, we should be careful about giving anything to someone who might feel obligated to reciprocate.

On a train to Leningrad, that awful woman got chatty with the female conductor in our car, and noticed that the conductor wore a nice ring.

The awful American woman presented the conductor with a cheap gift, and the Russian woman gave her the only thing of value that she had with her on the trip -- that ring.

None of us knew that the exchange had happened until a few of us saw the female conductor crying in her little compartment at the end of the car. One of us who spoke Russian coaxed her into explaining what was wrong -- she told us that the ring had belonged to her mother, and was the only thing she had from her.

We tried to get the awful American woman to return the ring to the conductor, but she refused to do so.

An awful, awful American.

THKrupp| 8.23.12 @ 11:46AM

wow that is awful. I had somewhat of a similar experience. we had home visits set up so that we could interact with regular Russians. Myself and another guy were to go to visit some nurses. They had a big spread set out for us. Typical Russian party food. Well we had brought a lot of nick nacks from the USA to give as gifts and bribes if needed. Stuff like cigarettes, make up, t shirts and the like. Well I had this big bag of make up samples and gave it to these nurses. They were very nice and I had a great time. I wasnt thinking though and they tried to give me their grandfathers military medals in exchange. I refused to take the medals and ended up with some records of Russian music. It was a very interesting trip. Ive been back a few times and its amazing how things have changed in a relatively short period of time.

KyMouse| 8.24.12 @ 10:23AM

Thanks for sharing that, THK; that is very, very interesting.

Tafuna| 8.22.12 @ 4:07PM

My favorite souvenir was an egg shaped icon with Mary and the infant Jesus that I bought at St. Issac's Church in St. Petersburg last month. I was thankful to see that while the church is mostly now a museum, worship has returned in one section.

TW in SC| 8.22.12 @ 12:04PM

Most lefties have never heard the expression, "Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should do a thing". Their desires are to agitate and have a little fit and draw attention to what they think is an "issue". More often than not, it was known as trouble-making and in many cases still is.

I applaud those who can come up with creative ways to get a message across but not like this. Rude, boorish behavior seldom gets people chatting about the issue but more about the poor behavior of the troublemakers. It is counter-productive.

Sadly, the violent left thinks they have the right to do such things because the hippies of the 60's made it fashionable to do so.

Tom Kyba| 8.22.12 @ 12:28PM

Well said.

Kelly Staples| 8.22.12 @ 6:59AM

Viva Pussy Riot! Shame on Putin! Mr. Bethell, please don't defend Todd Akin next.

Peter| 8.22.12 @ 8:29AM

I hope these little c**ts are brutalized in prison, crush the LEFT

Doctor Right| 8.22.12 @ 9:18AM

Whether or not you agree with the "approach" offered by "Pussy Riot" (and I don't), what you're wishing for is pretty sick.

Peter| 8.22.12 @ 10:27AM

Don't care ,,,its time for the Left to get taste of its own medicine which they have been dispensing for the last 200 years

Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 8.22.12 @ 11:21AM

"I hope these little c**ts are brutalized in prison, crush the LEFT"

Well, gee, we KNOW Peter is no pinko commie-lib, eh?

Peter| 8.22.12 @ 1:09PM

As someone whose family members were murdered under the Ceausescu regime that would be a big fat NO.....Its time to give the Left a good dose of brutality and wipe them out...revenge for the blood they shed in the 20th century

Pelleas| 8.22.12 @ 3:37PM

..AND.. as someone whose family members were murdered during a vicious Pogrom , at the turn of the 20th Cent ( during the reign of the last Czar)--WITH THE BLESSINGS of the Metropolitan of "the Holy Russian Church", in Minsk..I say--FUCK THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX RELIGION--one of unusual hatreds and prejudices, since its very beginings...!

Peter| 8.23.12 @ 10:10AM

Didn't you guys get revenge with whole communist revolution ... I mean you helped starve 5 million Ukrainians in the name of the people...that must have counted for something, but I guess the Left's thirst for blood is never quench

Doctor Right| 8.22.12 @ 4:48PM

There's nothing virtuous about brutality.

Seek| 8.22.12 @ 12:20PM

Your respect for women is showing. But next time don't make it too obvious.

Peter| 8.22.12 @ 1:06PM

I have no respect for any Leftist

Seek| 8.22.12 @ 5:12PM

I have no respect for anyone who advocates brutalizing dissenters, be the dissenter on the Right or the Left, especially if that person is a female. Your above comment was nothing short of disgraceful.

The American Spectator used to be a classy magazine. I'm an old subscriber myself. How did it come attract so many violent rednecks?

Peter| 8.23.12 @ 10:07AM

Like I said the Left needs a taste of the medicine its been dispensing for generations....

Peter| 8.23.12 @ 10:11AM

How about this then I believe in whole elimination of the Left from government, academia, media hollywood....you are the type that would bow all the way to hangman's noose

C. Vernon Crisler | 8.22.12 @ 8:31AM

Now, Tom has a good point. What if a band called itself Penis Riot, or Anus Riot, entered a Mosque and starting singing (yelling) vulgarities about Mohammed? So Kelly, would you defend them? Would you call it art?

I think what Vagina Riot did was itself comparable to what Akin said: ignorant balderdash. You are the one who is in reality a defender of Mr. Akin.

Nothing like naming one's band after a body part and linking it to some favorite leftist devise for overturning real freedom (rioting). I wonder if starting band names with the results of bodily functions, such as excrement or waste, then linking it up with a favorite leftist method might not increase the popularity of the band: e.g., Crap Subversion, or something more colorful.

Von Mises Jr| 8.22.12 @ 9:37AM

While Akin said something stupid, Bite-me never says anything but something stupid or vicious. Here is why I am contrarian with the GOP, Rush and most people:
Obama is for killing live-born babies whom the mother wished to abort. Akin is simply the opposite position that even with rape, the baby is innocent and abortion is immoral.
Is it not more important to realize that if ObamaCare stands, Sebelius or the IPAB board can virtually force abortions like in China? If the doctor feels there may be complications, IPAB may shut off all reimbursements.
If the parents defy Sebelius and IPAB, the mother will need to have a Kennedy-style back alley delivery. Is Akin not an opportunity to have this debate???
We have re-entered Ancient Sparta where the weaklings shall be thrown from the cliff.

C. Vernon Crisler | 8.22.12 @ 10:40AM

I agree with pro-life, but I also agree with Rush, et al., that we need intelligent defenses of life. IOW, we shouldn't have to spend our time having to defend stupid comments by politicians who should already know better by now what to say and what not to say in defense of life.

e e eponymous| 8.22.12 @ 9:58AM

"naming one's band after a body part"

And all the while I thought the "pussy" in Pussy Riot was referring to a cat or cats.

C. Vernon Crisler | 8.22.12 @ 10:47AM

Right....funny

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 5:38PM

Down with Pussy Riot they are the epitome of Western filth that Russia especially does not need.

Mistral| 8.22.12 @ 7:30AM

Keep out of churches and let Christians have the peace they deserve to worship.
Protesters have plenty of space outside for protest so do it there.
Try your protests in a mosque or temple and see what happens to you. You see, this is why these nasty young reprobates are moral cowards as they pick on a weak target.
It is about time we had laws against Christophobia and Ecclesophobia to level the playing field.

Von Mises Jr| 8.22.12 @ 9:42AM

Are they not simply following the example of Obama's OWS and America's Gay Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato (GBLT) movement that appear to receive at Catholic Mass?

Mistral| 8.22.12 @ 9:52AM

VM Jr

The Novus Ordo "catholic" service is not really a Mass as such...it is a form of adaptable protestant liturgical entertainment in vulgar tongue and it gets the crowds it deserves.

Von Mises Jr| 8.22.12 @ 10:27AM

Mistral, May G-d have mercy on your soul.

Mistral| 8.23.12 @ 12:35PM

The freemason (Archbishop Bugnini or "BUAN") who designed the NO service wanted to reduce everything that was demonstrably Catholic in it. he had 5 protestant advisors helping him. He wanted it flexible. he succeeded. Judging by the exponential falling away of Sunday attendance at it and its vertiginous decline in presbyters for it since its adoption in 1969, you get what you deserve if you go to it.
God probably dislikes it too since it is no longer He Who is at the centre of it but the people who go to it and the entertaining presbyter who presides over it.

Appleby| 8.22.12 @ 10:12AM

If they haven't been paying attention for their entire lifespans, to the fact that they are living in a society that imprisons people for "dissent", then perhaps prison will teach them something they ought to already know. Civil Disobedience is breaking the law with the full knowledge that you will receive punishment for same. And as everybody from your mother to the Pope will tell you and probably has, ignorance of the law is no defence.

Mistral| 8.22.12 @ 7:36AM

If western commentators and politicians want these young thugs to have "freedom of expression" then they should be in favour of Wikileakers having the same liberty.

TinaB| 8.22.12 @ 10:04AM

Score: Mistral 1 Enemy 0

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 6:42PM

That's right. I've been hearing some pundits calling for Assange's head on a plate. I guess to the West desecrating an Orthodox Christian shrine is 'freedom of speech" but for someone like Julian Assange who exposes the misdeeds of the powerful he deserves to die.

Mistral| 8.23.12 @ 12:43PM

Indeed Dimitry and the stupid british authorities imagine they can suspend Ecuadorian diplomatic rights and storm the embassy in London to grab Assange. How about that for a "democratic" and "freedom" loving nation? And they are even more stupid enough to think South Americans will sit by and accept such autocratic treatment.

PCC| 8.22.12 @ 7:59AM

I agree. When I listened to the BBC World Service's breathless reporting of the abominable two-year sentence for these supposed paragons of free speech, I thought, "Two years sounds about right to me."

C. Vernon Crisler | 8.22.12 @ 8:33AM

No, putting them in prison only fuels their fame and CD sales. Better to give them a lecture, fine them a huge sum of money for trespassing, then let them go. No one would pay any attention to them at that point.

Appleby| 8.22.12 @ 10:13AM

This story is already yesterday's news. By next week nobody will even remember that these brats exist.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 6:44PM

If they seek forgiveness and ask for mercy then I think they should be granted a pardon and work as volunteers at an Orthodox orphanage. That would be a good thing.

Mistral| 8.22.12 @ 9:56AM

The BBC is run by Zionists and their liberal sympathisers beholding to govt of the day for subsidies. What else can you expect? It has fast become a type of politically correct online tabloid with language to match.

RCV| 8.22.12 @ 11:31AM

Get lost, Nazi scum.

Tom Kyba| 8.22.12 @ 12:30PM

S'matter man, the truth hurts too much?

Mistral| 8.23.12 @ 12:47PM

RCV - if you support Zionism you are the Nazi-type. I support the Jews who are against Zionism. It's your Zionist friends who are running the international banking and finance system which is reshaping the USA you live in at present, to your own detriment.

lcdlover | 8.22.12 @ 12:53PM

From Wiki page "Criticism of the BBC": Douglas Davis, the London correspondent of The Jerusalem Post, has accused the BBC of being anti-Israel. He wrote that the BBC's coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict was a "portrayal of Israel as a demonic, criminal state and Israelis as brutal oppressors" and resembled a "campaign of vilification" that had de-legitimised the State of Israel.[45] "Anglicans for Israel", the pro-Israel pressure group,[46] have berated the BBC for apparent anti-Israel bias.[47]
The Daily Telegraph has criticised the BBC for its coverage of the Middle East. In 2007, the newspaper wrote, "In its international and domestic news reporting, the corporation has consistently come across as naïve and partial, rather than sensitive and unbiased. Its reporting of Israel and Palestine, in particular, tends to underplay the hate-filled Islamist ideology that inspires Hamas and other factions, while never giving Israel the benefit of the doubt." Zionists in disguise, one supposes, but fair enough point about liberals beholden to gov't.

Mistral| 8.23.12 @ 12:48PM

That is Douglas Davis opinion and he is entitlted to it. many of us can see below the surface and what is really going on at the BBC.

lcdlover | 8.24.12 @ 12:45PM

Hello Mistral. Fair enough point, but that was just a quick example so as not to make an unsupported assertion. Just for a laugh, maybe, survey people on a website you respect: does the BBC tilt pro-Israel or pro-Palestine?

Also, whenever I feel like I "can see below the surface" I do a gut check on my own biases and presuppositions.

Have a good day.

Infantryman| 8.22.12 @ 8:42AM

I don't particularly care for Mr. Putin or any of his KGB type colleagues, but two cheers for him for tossing that grungy crowd into the poky. He'd get three if he had shipped them off to Siberia for life. One of the most heart warming stories of the bloody 20th Century was the reemergence of the Christian church in Russia after 70 years of socialist dictatorship. Those little bastards got off easy.

Harry the Horrible| 8.22.12 @ 9:48AM

Neah.
Should have rounded them up, given 'em a good beating when the resisted arrest, confiscated any equipment they brought with 'em, fined them, then tossed them out.
Three years of prison is a bit over the top. Worse, it make 'em martyrs.
Also, keep in mind that, in relation to this case, the Sov, er, Russians are looking at passing a law against "criticizing" Judges. Go figure.

Seek| 8.22.12 @ 12:22PM

So are you saying that the Right should take a page out of Stalin's book and execute those whom it finds undesirable? It would seem you are, Mr. Infantryman. Communism in reverse has a word: Fascism.

Bill8472| 8.22.12 @ 12:27PM

Infantryman illustrates the hole in Robert A. Heinlein's argument, about military service and the franchise, that is made in "Starship Troopers."

Doctor Right| 8.22.12 @ 12:48PM

Communism and Fascism ARE NOT the reverse of each other.

Communism is a sub-set of Fascism.

In fact, all Fascist movements to-date have been inherently SOCIALIST.

That.s right, Mr. Lefty...Fascism is a movement of THE LEFT.

Mistral| 8.23.12 @ 12:50PM

Communism is fascism without any private ownership - they are both essentially left wing since they demand total state control of everything, even if it is privately owned. Hitler was a National Socialist and therefore left of centre.

LindaF | 8.22.12 @ 8:59AM

Hard as it is for Western Liberals to believe, most of the world takes disrespect of religion seriously. Would that they had the same concern about Christians being killed for simply being Christian in parts of the world that hate them.

If Putin goes, what follows? Russian mobsters? He's NOT great, but be careful what you yearn for - SOMETHING will flow into the vacuum - mobsters? Muslim Brotherhood?

Whatever it is, it will already have its structure and organization in place.

Bill8472| 8.22.12 @ 9:04AM

The first seven lines of the song quoted in the article are quite true, aren't they?

Russian society, not so very long ago, was closing the Churches, tearing them down to make parking lots, and, when not razing them, turning them into museums of atheism.

The Orthodox Church hierarchy is reported as, to a man, cooperating as informers to the Soviets, up to and including revealing matters confessed to in the confidence of the confessional.

As far as I know, Vladimir Putin can STILL depend on the Orthodox priesthood to help him crack down on those the regime dislikes.

These are the people whose sanctity the Pussy Riot girls interfered with? Frankly, putting the outrageousness of a two-year prison sentence for non-violent acting out aside, they really aren't in a very good position to get themselves into high dudgeon over the ironic characterization of the band's expression of "hatred of religion."

Bob K| 8.22.12 @ 9:40AM

There are no "Soviets" to report to any more. They disappeared with the Soviet Union in 1989. It was they, not Russian society, who were closing the churches.

If the Orthodox hierarchy is doing any reporting now, and you have shown no proof of that, it is to Russian politicians. The Church has always been supported by the Russian people.

Bill8472| 8.22.12 @ 12:15PM

No Soviets any more? Well, if you are saying that once the USSR went under 22 years ago, the Soviet Union ended and therefore there could no longer be any Soviets, I guess you're right.

But if you're thinking, like me, that reports suggest that there are many people still alive in Russia who miss the good ol' USSR and would like to return to it, then there ARE still Soviets in Russia.

For an account of those who continue to have nostalgia for the USSR, read the book "It Was A Long Time Ago, And It Never Happened Anyway." The author of that book documents the complicity of the Orthodox Church in informing on Soviet citizens. It they do it today, it's "to politicians?" Are you saying that's OK because they're not informing to Communists?

Bob K| 8.22.12 @ 6:41PM

No, what I said is that the USSR is gone. It is still gone no matter how you parse it and no matter how many people there are left there who may "miss" it. And, for a fact, there are not very many of them. Communism died there in 1989 because hardly anyone was left who believed in it. Those who rule Russia today are Russians. All of them are Nationalists. None of them are "Soviets."

I did not say it is OK for the Church to inform on the citizens. I said that you have introduced no proof that the leaders of the Orthodox Church are currently reporting anything to the Russian leadership.

Rick Cross| 8.22.12 @ 9:27AM

French atheists, Notre Dame of Paris, 1790.
Deja Vu.
Weren't the girls involved called whores back then?

PolishKnight| 8.22.12 @ 9:37AM

I recall that in Christian history there was a man who protested in a Synagogue, overturned money changing tables, and the authorities properly executed him.

C. Vernon Crisler | 8.22.12 @ 10:44AM

The Roman authority, Pilate, said he couldn't find anything Jesus had done that was worthy of death.

PolishKnight| 8.22.12 @ 10:56AM

After a long debate in the Gospel about whether Christ's "kingdom" was on heaven or earth, yes. But most historians agree that Pilate wasn't the type of guy to hesitate or fret about executing someone and required a mob to motivate him to get rid of troublemakers.

Bill8472| 8.22.12 @ 12:18PM

Well, but then he turned Jesus over to the Jews for their mob justice, and washed his hands of Him.

PolishKnight| 8.22.12 @ 1:26PM

That's just it though: From the non-Gospel historical accounts of Pontius Pilate, he doesn't sound like the guy who caved into Jewish mobs on a regular basis. Just the opposite: His, well, Vladimir Putin tough-guy style stance seems to have gotten him recalled to Rome for being TOO tough on the locals.

In addition, Bill. For the record: he never turned over Jesus to the locals. The execution was carried out by Roman soldiers.

PsychoDad| 8.22.12 @ 1:44PM

As C.S. Lewis said, via "Uncle Screwtape," "Pilate was merciful until it became risky."

Mistral| 8.22.12 @ 9:48AM

Frankly speaking, I do not see much difference between the so-called American justice system and Russia's. Non-violent drug offences are frequently out-of-proportion; some non-violent protesters have been given quite a boot-licking by the security forces in some street protests; US govt attempts to use online and CCTV surveillance akin to spying etc...Who knows what the white-collar elite of the Whitehouse are dreaming up at present to curtail our liberties?

PolishKnight| 8.22.12 @ 9:58AM

You have a point, Mistral, but there are several things the USA's system has going for it: Trial by jury, open courtrooms, and the defendants get to sit with dignity with their counsel while in Russia they're locked in cages like animals. Even dangerous offenders in the USA are given shackles or in more modern times, electronic restraints.

Mistral| 8.23.12 @ 12:59PM

Judging by post-Bush enquiries the USA has beern using torture techniques to get confessions and not just waterboarding. Also, they use certain institutions to do their dirty work for them - CIA to carry out political assassinations. Jury is not everything it is cracked up to be - they make wrongful decisions and are frankly often incapable of understanding technical aspects of court cases - forensic evidence explanantions and legal terminology for example. Televised court proceedings are playing to the media and can be unjust in that the case can become like a soap opera or the media presence can be so strong that it interferes with the judicial climate therein.

Derek Leaberry| 8.22.12 @ 9:55AM

Perhaps America could use our own Putin. Why aren't Bradley Manning and Admiral Mullen executed by now?

C. S. P. Schofield| 8.22.12 @ 10:00AM

I think that denouncing this kind of thing as "Blaphemous" is a tactical mistake, and one we make fairly often. Some talentless idiot submerges a crucifix in urine, we shout "Blasphemy!" and threaten his funding on that ground, the Left chants "Freedom of Speech! Separation of Church and State!" and the idiot basks in the attention.

How if, instead, we said another plain truth about these little spasms? They are Tacky, Nekulturny, Vulgar, and in some cases an obvious public hazard comparable to yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre. The Left might be able to ignore such accusations, but they cannot deny them. If nothing else we would not be granting than an opportunity to feel superior.

Pull Arts funding from something because it is Tacky. Arrest flag burners for lighting a fire without a permit. Treat these tantrum throwing twits like the spoiled children they are. And if the Left sputters about "Freedom of Speech", answer that the little idiots are perfectly free to make their point in a manner that does not waste tax money or endanger the public.

PolishKnight| 8.22.12 @ 10:29AM

Sounds like a great idea. Smoking in public should be banned since it's lighting a fire without a permit. :-)

Bill8472| 8.22.12 @ 12:23PM

It's also an "anti-social act" committed by a "wrecker" of social policy. Eight years for anti-Democratic agitation. Off the gulag!

C. S. P. Schofield| 8.22.12 @ 12:43PM

The problem with that is that smoking was common when most of those public fire bans were passed, and was either specifically exempted, exempted by size limits on the fires banned, or exempted by custom. I think some of this got tried when people were burning draft cards, too.

A burning flag is another matter entirely; a large sheet of fabric set on fire could easily be caught by the wind and blown into a crowd.

PolishKnight| 8.22.12 @ 1:28PM

"Exempted by custom". In other words, arbitrary exercise of police power. Be nice to the police (or TSA) and they'll let you travel if you stay in their good graces...

JimH| 8.22.12 @ 10:29AM

Nyekulturny is the exact term for what went on. A fine however, should have been sufficient punishment, particularly as how the church itself has given forgiveness. BTW, I don’t know the current state of the Russian church, but back in the USSR, the church, what was allowed of it, was a puppet of the government so attitudes towards the Orthodox Church may not be the same as say a Poles regard for the Catholic Church.

PsychoDad| 8.22.12 @ 1:49PM

There is a lot of baggage behind what you say, regarding the Russian Orthodox Church, which managed to survive in the USSR, and the "Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia," (ROCOR) which held itself to be the "DeGaulle government in exile" as opposed to the Vichy government in Occupied France. Suffice it to say that many decades of mistrust and accusations of collaborationism have been resolved, and if you are interested in pursuing the subject further, many Orthodox websites will be glad to tell you more than you ever want to know.

JimH| 8.22.12 @ 2:13PM

PsychoDad, my favorite fictional TV show (Nunchuk Chicks is a close second). I'm glad you could shed some light. I was wondering if, for the average Russian, the actions of this band are viewed more as blasphemous or political.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 6:35PM

The Church has all ready forgiven the PR women. I don't know how much influence the Church or Putin had over the sentencing that the judge handed down. JimH you forget that under the Communists their was collusion between Catholic hierarchs in Poland and the Communist Party. Yes their were KGB in the Orthodox Church during Soviet times and their were KGB in the Polish Catholic Church during those times as well. Now thanks be to God the material atheism of the Soviet Union is no longer the official religion of the state and the traditional Churches of Russia and Poland have much more freedom than they once had.

Albert Constantine Jr.| 8.22.12 @ 11:32AM

"and in some cases an obvious public hazard comparable to yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre."

I want people to be able to yell fire in a crowded theater if they observe flame or smoke therein. It is the false claim of fire that is permissible to be punished.

Thunderbottom| 8.22.12 @ 10:44AM

Hmmm - a group of Eve Ensler-"Vagina Monologues" punkette feminists versus a former secret policeman who appears to aspire to being an amalgam of Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, and Stalin. These girls' antics remind me of "ACT-UP's" demonstrations in the '80's and '90's when they would enter Catholic churches and defile the Host. Choosing a side between "Pussy Riot" and Putin is, in my opinion, like choosing sides in the Iran/Iraq war some 30-plus years ago.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 6:46PM

Not for me. I choose Putin and I choose the Russian Orthodox Church of which I am a member. It's not a hard choice for me. Those "Act UP" members who desecrated the Host should have gotten a good beating. Sometimes I truly believe the Muslims are right in their vigilance.

Le Cracquere| 8.22.12 @ 11:34AM

I've got no particular use for this band, and am highly ticked at their crashing of the church. Their actions are, and ought to be, illegal in most countries.

But you know what? Let's play out what would've happened if the incidents had happened in, say, St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC:

At worst, the girls would've been arrested, read their rights, and held for a definite, limited time before trial. They might have faced criminal charges ... only, it'd be before a jury of unbought, unintimidated peers. It would've been before a judge who didn't directly owe his job and safety to the President whom the defendants are insulting. In a civil suit, they'd have faced an independent plaintiff who wasn't the aggrieved President's handpuppet. They'd have gotten something like probation and fines, or time served, or a couple months in stir at worst.

And then, no one could honestly say that the political target whose chain the girls were jerking had interfered at all—much less cheated and manipulated like a pro-wrestling villain. Also, no one could reasonably claim that the "church" they'd invaded was something closer to a bought-and-paid-for arm of the government and its head of state.

But that's not how it works in Russia, and THAT's what people are torqued about—rightly so. You don't have to approve of public disorder or blasphemy to infer dismal things about the country that imprisoned these girls, or to conclude that the tyrant they antagonized bears the greater shame.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 6:38PM

Russia is not the United States or Western Europe and God willing never will be. Affairs of the Russian justice system should be just that. It is not ironic that the West is falling overthemselves for these whores with Old Whores and Drug Addicts like Madonna, Sting and Flea taking up the cause of Pussy Riot. How dare the West and these degenerates are to judge Russia. They should really mind their own business.

Le Cracquere| 8.23.12 @ 8:54AM

Sometimes I think that "Chinese gold farmer" is the world's least rewarding online job, but then I remember the hapless wage slaves in tyrannies across the globe, retained to defend the "honor" of their tinpot Dear Leader in online fora.

Sir, it's not too late to take up something relatively respectable ... like subway HJs, or sideshow geekdom. Think about it. And by the way, could you pass something along to your supervisor next time he comes by? "Твою мать, douche-canoe."

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.23.12 @ 4:47PM

In defense of my faith I will go to the grave. In defense of my faith I will stand against the country where I was born and stand with my Orthodox brothers and sisters in Russia, Serbia and Greece. That is where I stand. That is most important to me.

Le Cracquere| 8.23.12 @ 5:19PM

I'm not sure, but suspect this might be code for "The S.O.B. is staring right over my shoulder; can you please send brochures for this comparatively respectable 'H.J. circus geek' livelihood of which you speak?" I'll do my best, brother; stay frosty.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.23.12 @ 5:25PM

The West is lost. There is no hope for the West. While its Churches are emptying out Russia is building more Churches. While the secularists in the West are purging all remaining vestiges of Christianity from public view the Russian Orthodox Church is returning to its place in Russian public life in hospitals, orphanages and even in the military. The West no longer believes in anything but Orthodoxy will rise again.

Le Cracquere| 8.24.12 @ 8:23AM

I believe I've finally cracked your code! Yes, there is alcohol in America, but its use is frowned upon in the workplace. No, Mr. Hanky and Fluttershy are not real people. Nevertheless, the nice folks at the American embassy can probably help with your situation, and I don't think you'll regret it.

lcdlover | 8.22.12 @ 12:10PM

The 1st amendment is so 2oth century. We could learn a great deal from the Soviets excuse me the Russians in this case. This is sarcasm of course. I agree with Le Cracquere's articulate remarks above. Guys, please read and comment on blog post: http://erroneouslyconfident.bl.....ather.html

KyMouse| 8.22.12 @ 1:07PM

These "performers" are more proof that the Left loves humanity.

It's people they hate.

Peter| 8.22.12 @ 1:11PM

Well said

Albert Constantine Jr.| 8.22.12 @ 1:17PM

I was given a gift as a child of a plaque which featured Linus (of the "Peanuts" comic strip )saying:

I love mankind
It's people I can't stand

Mr. Schultz may be gone, but as paraphrased above, his wisdom lives on.

PolishKnight| 8.22.12 @ 1:35PM

It's interesting that many on the left, or right for that matter, don't see that Putin is the end road of the left's "progressive" ideology: Political cronyism and crony-capitalism combined with total state authority and oligarchs with their versions of George Soros and Steven Spielberg. Instead of roads cordoned off to state officials only, they are now for the state officials and oligarchs just as Spielberg and his crew ride around in private jets while griping about how the "little people" need to ride bicycles to combat "global warming."

What's strange is that many in Russia love their uncaring overlord just as many on the left here in the states worship leftism even as it's clear that it offers them nothing personally other than feeling good about staying out of trouble.

JP| 8.22.12 @ 1:10PM

Let's see punks like these do something similar in a mosque, and then see what happens.

Eduardo| 8.23.12 @ 2:55PM

I was thinking the exact same thing, JP. It doesn't take any guts to trash Christians or Christianity (see Black, Lewis). If these delinquents had some guts - or a death wish -, they would trash the "religion of peace". But back to your query: what would happen if they did so? I'm thinking the term "beheading" might apply.

Albert Constantine Jr.| 8.22.12 @ 1:38PM

When Al Qaeda’s Islamists attacked us on 9-11-01, I was not tempted to ask “why do they hate us?”. I believe I've had a fair understanding on why they, or anyone else, hate us. While our freedom is an element of that (and a critical component in the West’s successes and American exceptionalism), the decadence that often accompanies freedom and which is prevalent in so much of our popular culture likely ranks much higher among the reasons that Mohammed Atta might have given as he was steering one of our passenger and fuel laden aircrafts into an occupied building.

I count myself as culturally conservative, and whenever I hear Lady Gaga speak, I think Robert Bork underestimated the pace, and think that Sprinting should be substituted as the action verb in any sequel to Slouching towards Gomorrah. Nonetheless, I don’t think that embracing totalitarian authoritarians like Putin or Islamists is the only alternative, or a necessarily more attractive one.

To update Thunderbottom’s analogy above, it would be like choosing between Al Qaeda backed insurgency and an Iranian-supported and supplied regime.

Kingofthenet| 8.22.12 @ 2:02PM

I wish I could lock up Pussy for Two Years.

Albert Constantine Jr.| 8.22.12 @ 3:15PM

Your Majesty, someone in your royal family needs to lock up the liquor cabinet, pills and computer keyboard in your home to keep you from hurting or embarrassing yourself any further.

THKrupp| 8.22.12 @ 3:42PM

I confess that I really dont know what the agenda of this punk band is. Are they actually liberals in same sense as liberals in the USA or is their demonstration in the same vein as the original tea party in Boston Harbor? While their demonstration was tasteless it was surely no less illegal than destroying someone elses property by dumping it in the harbor.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 6:27PM

Desecrating someone's Church is most definitely a punishable offense. Had it been a Mosque they would have been killed before the authorities had a chance to save them as Putin pointed out.

Mnestheus| 8.22.12 @ 5:17PM

Why must Tom persist in doing to science what Pussy Riot has done to religion ?

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 5:27PM

Thank you Mr. Bethell. Finally a column that is both thoughtful and correct on the Spectator. These ladies are not heroes and Western liberal democratists taking up the cause of the feminist punk band PR only speak to the moral depravity, arrogance and hypocrisy of the West nowadays. I would much rather have the backing of Putin and Patriarch Kirill than of Madonna, Sting and Flea. Both President Putin and Patriarch Kirill called for leniency on the women of PR. I think they should be pardoned only if they seek forgiveness for their crimes and would agree to volunteer work in Orthodox orphanages.

HR| 8.22.12 @ 5:43PM

I find this piece and its comments very disturbing-- not something I can usually say about what I read here. And, frankly, I'm not entirely sure I understand Mr. Bethell's point. This band is not making art? Okay. At least portions of what they did were wrong? I'll agree to that. But that's not the debate.

I have no use whatsoever for the vilely named band, nor for their particular brand of "protest". I also have no intention of defending their character or cause, or of indulging tangential discussions on "art". But I am rather deeply disturbed at the suggestion that I-- and, indeed, all who claim to value freedom-- should not be the least bit troubled that the display has garnered the perpetrators a kangaroo-court trial and a prison sentence. Had they been charged with trespassing, vandalism, or even disturbing the peace I wouldn't have blinked at the report (if there had been any). But such an ambiguous and fluid charge as "hooliganism" must at least raise eyebrows. It just absolutely must.

I am constantly sickened and infuriated by the left's claims of "tolerance" and loving "diversity" while they make it very clear that this (naturally) excludes all with which they disagree. We cannot start doing the same. We just can't. We know better.

Cpm| 8.22.12 @ 5:49PM

You can't judge what people consider free speech in a country with absolutely no tradition of free speech. This is a finger in Putin's eye and just the latest in a long tradition of Russian show trials.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.22.12 @ 5:58PM

Show trial?...B.S....The women of P.R. were guilty of the crime and they admitted to it. They did not repent for their sacrilege and now they are going to do the time unless they are granted a pardon. I don't see what the problem is.

Frouwa| 8.22.12 @ 10:51PM

First I would suggest carefully read the WHOLE piece: http://www.guardian.co.uk/book.....er-lyrics.
It is obvious that is a prayer, though not traditional , but honest and authentic.
Do you ask why 'The head of the KGB, their chief saint," Let me explain. The Russian Orthodox Church today is not that old Church originated in Byzantine. This Church was founded by Stalin in 1943 and from the beginning was controlled by KGB. If you believe that such Church could be holy I don't- Communist killed lot of my own relatives and I am not going to forget.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.23.12 @ 12:33AM

The Soviet Union no longer exists and the Russian Orthodox Church has influence in the Russian state but is not controlled by it. This is not 1943 and President Vladimir Putin is not Stalin. The body of Christ is not just the buildings and bishops, priests, monks and nuns that make up the church it is the simple Orthodox believer as well. What PR did was sacrilege and it was offensive to the Orthodox faithful. Now maybe two years is a stiff sentence, but the PR girls are guilty and unrepentent of what they were charged and convicted of. Like I said before had they asked for forgiveness I would say they should do volunteer work in Orthodox orphanages. There's was not a prayer in any sense of the word.

Bill8472| 8.23.12 @ 9:21AM

Sacrilege is the mistreatment of a sacred object. What did PR do that involved mistreatment of any sacred object?

They made nasty and irreligious remarks, it's true, but I don't think they committed sacrilege unless they damaged or destroyed some sacred object.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.23.12 @ 12:29PM

A Church itself is a sacred place as is the altar where they decided to perform this protest act. It is sacrilege. Maybe Protestants/Evangelicals won't understand but to Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics a church itself is a Holy place and the altar is especially Holy.

Mistral| 8.23.12 @ 1:09PM

Dimitry

In a sceptical and irreverent postmodern west the notion of sacredness is lost to people who are ill-formed and brought up on a diet of amoral education devoid of real perspective. For example, evolution only is allowed to be taught in state schools; gay politics is the same; sex education excludes natural methods of birth control such as the Billings sympto-thermal mthod etc. The idea of democracy and freedom are just fantasies. If you are politically correct you can do as you like. If you have religious beliefs you cannot. If you want children to grow up with decency and respect the schools ensure this is almost impossible. Commerce, the media and the state have put young people on the pedestal of superiority to older people. What a mess!No wonder they do as they please and the media etc defend their subversion. If you defend otherwise you are branded an extremist or a fascist.
What a deplorable condition the west is in. No authority; no standard of excellence; no criteria for discernment.

Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 8.23.12 @ 4:41PM

When all of the b.s. distractions of modern Western life are put aside all that's left is faith, family, honor and tradition. Those are the most important things in life. When I die, I will die an Orthodox Christian.

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