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Special Report
Difficult Days in Denver
Learning about the meaning of community from callers to a morning talk show in Denver, Colorado.
(Page 2 of 3)
THERE WERE SEVERAL other interesting topics of discussion, ones that were less painful to talk about, over those difficult days in Denver:
One point of polite debate among callers was the notion — which I must admit would never have occurred to me — of praying for the shooter. While I still don’t really understand the idea, there was a substantial minority of listeners who said they understood why someone would do that.
And, as talk radio can do from time to time, the conversation caused me to learn something when a caller said she would probably pray for the shooter, not because she hoped or thought it would help him, but because it was an effective coping mechanism for her.
(In a CNN interview on Wednesday night, shooting victim Pierce O’Farrill, who opposes the death penalty, said, “I will pray for James Holmes, and I pray that he does get life in prison and those 30, 40, 50 years that he’s in prison that I pray that the Lord can find him in some way and change his heart…. I pray that he can find some regret and that he can find that place in his where it’s time for him to regret and to ask for forgiveness from the victims of all of this terrible tragedy.”)
Listeners were mostly supportive of the District Attorney’s decision to take input from the victims’ families on whether or not to seek the death penalty in the case. My reaction was “of course you would go for the death penalty,” but again, speaking with callers, I was reminded that in addition to justice there is an important goal of closure for the families of the victims. And closure, for some, might not come with a death sentence if that sentence meant the villain would be seen on TV again and again for a decade or two as the never-ending death sentence appeal process winds its way through the court system. I learned from callers that going for life without parole might not be, if you will pardon the term, as insane as I first thought it sounded.
Speaking of insane, there was near unanimity among listeners on whether someone convicted of a mass murderer should be executed even if found to be insane. Almost everybody said yes. I wonder whether that was due to the intensity of the emotions surrounding a massacre among our friends and neighbors, or whether this is something the majority of the population believes even when such mayhem is not in the news. Personally, I’m very conflicted about this issue. My inclination, to quote a listener, is “fry ‘em” but if there truly were a chemical issue or disease that prevented the perpetrator from knowing that what he was doing was wrong, and especially if that problem can be controlled with medicine or surgery, it is difficult (at least for me) to be certain that the state should take his life.
Three of the people who died in that movie theater — Jon Blunk, Matt McQuinn, and Alex Teves, each in their twenties with bright futures ahead of them — were young men who jumped in front of their girlfriends to shield them from the killer; they literally took a bullet for someone they loved. A call I got on Sunday was from a young woman whose boyfriend shielded her as well; fortunately neither of them was injured. In other words, remarkable heroic behavior was even more widespread than just those who had the misfortune to lose their lives in the process. I can’t adequately express what this says about the character of the American male.
There will be plenty of survivor’s guilt among those who are alive today because three young heroes sacrificed themselves. But the focus needs to be on the heroism and the strong possibility that without the selfless acts of Blunk, McQuinn, and Teves, rather than three being dead, six would be dead. No young woman should go through the rest of her life thinking, “It should have been me.”
Then there are the heroes among the police officers. Imagine knowing that 911 has just received 50 to 100 calls about shots being fired in a movie theater. Imagine you arrive on scene to see injured people stumbling out of the theater and to see, smell, and feel some sort of gas or smoke — and that your reaction is “I need to get in there.” I’d like to think that I’d have that sort of courage, but frankly I doubt I would unless my own children were at risk.
MOVING ON to the topic of guns, which I did not discuss on the radio:
I own at least one gun similar to each weapon the murderer brought into the theater on that horrible night. I have to say that although I understand the issues and the principles, and although I’m a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, it would have been hard for me last weekend to make a full-throated defense of gun rights, at least as strongly as I know I support those rights.
The point is not that my views were changed, but that such intense emotion causes those who want to regulate to be more aggressive (think Rahm “let no crisis go to waste” Emanuel), and those who usually stand up for freedom have their resolve weakened, even if only slightly and temporarily. I admit to feeling that way last weekend. Others, like the tremendous David Kopel, remain steel-spined.
In this context, I’m pleasantly surprised how little traction calls for increased gun regulation have had following last week’s events. The Obama administration has said twice that they will not put forward any new gun policy initiatives. For Obama, this is a purely political position; it is no secret that he hates guns and would ban them if he could.
Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper, who has done a tremendous job of offering perspective and caring as the “chief mourner for the state,” said that “I’m not sure there is any way in a free society to be able” to stop an insane killer, and that “If there were no assault weapons available and no this or no that, this guy is going find something, right? He’s going to know how to create a bomb.”
Rapper Ice-T, of all people, when asked by a British interviewer (on the day of the movie theater killings) about his support of gun rights, said, “Well, I’d give up my gun when everybody else does.” He correctly stated that “The right to bear arms is because that’s the last form of defense against tyranny. Not to hunt. It’s to protect yourself from the police.” While Ice-T specifically mentioned the Constitution in his comments, and while one hopes his primary inspiration is the values of our nation’s Founding, you would be forgiven for wondering whether his views come from spending part of his childhood in a rough Los Angeles neighborhood where police were often perceived as the enemy. Ice-T is, after all, the author of the controversial 1992 song “Cop Killer.”
About the Author
Ross Kaminsky is a self-employed trader and investor and is a senior fellow of the Heartland Institute. He is the host of The Ross Kaminsky Show on Denver’s NewsRadio 850 KOA at 11 AM on most Sundays. You can reach Ross by e-mail at rossputin(at)rossputin(dot)com.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (71) | Leave a comment
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Nancy in NC| 7.27.12 @ 7:49AM
Thanks for a voice of reason about a difficult subject. Excellent article.
Brookschwarzenegro | 7.27.12 @ 9:22AM
It's the Rightwing that does mass murder in America:
Tim McVeigh (with assist from Terry Nichols) is the champion-- and he was Rightist.
Charles Manson, America's most famous mass murderer-- a Rightist.
Congratulations.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 10:40AM
LOl, seriously, you are a clown of (almost) unprecedented magnitude.
Anthony| 7.27.12 @ 12:10PM
BSN, Are you really Brooksie in disguise? Were you a member of Obozo's chumgang smok'n all that weed?
Manson a Rightist? Wow dude, that's some powerful shit you're smoking.
Hey dude, The Unibomber had Algore's Earth in the Balance book in his little shack, the only book, next to his Manifesto.
Dream on, moron.
Ghost of Cicero (NB) | 7.27.12 @ 4:04PM
Yeah, Manson was just a regular, Bible-beating, G*d fearing capitalist Tea Partier.
Are you NATURALLY this f-ing stupid, or did you go to an Ivy League school?
Brookschwarzenegro | 7.29.12 @ 5:57PM
Gee, how would anybody have guessed Manson and McVeigh could be thought of as liberals??
TLP| 7.29.12 @ 8:03PM
Let's see?
Manson was a Dope Smoking Hippie, in the 60's.
How's that for starters?
Brookschwarzenegro | 7.30.12 @ 5:35PM
Well if you say so. So if a guy in the KKK smokes weed, then he must be a commie.
Mimi | 7.27.12 @ 8:02AM
Ross...you covered it all in such a thoughtful way,
it's hard to take this one in...even though we seem to have gone through this many times before....it is always so difficult to understand. Just like before...another senseless act. Our prayers to all the people of Colorado!
Jack London| 7.27.12 @ 8:14AM
"I've only touched on a few of the dozens of things to discuss and lessons to learn"
What 'lessons to learn' Ross? You don't want to change anything.
mike 3/505| 7.27.12 @ 9:36AM
Yep....sometimes that's the lesson. Kinda like in DC. We keep agitating our politicians to "do something." By my book, the less they "do," the less trouble they cause for the rest of us. In the Military Decision Making Process, when arraying possible solutions for consideration, Option 1 is always "Do Nothing." Why? Because rushing to judgement to "fix" something is often counter productive and manifests some unintended and ugly consequences.
mike 3/505| 7.27.12 @ 9:37AM
Edit Button Please.
Jack London| 7.27.12 @ 9:41AM
Yeah - you're right. This is the first time we've had a massacre like this so it would be quite wrong to move quickly on anything. So I guess the lesson is, let's wait and see if it happens again. If not we can sleep easy.
mike 3/505| 7.27.12 @ 9:52AM
OK...You want to move quickly? Fine. Let's discuss a law preventing public venues such as theaters from prohibiting the right to self defense by establishing "gun free" zones, otherwise known as "target rich environments" for whackos.
mike 3/505| 7.27.12 @ 9:53AM
Edit Button Please.
Truth to Power| 7.27.12 @ 10:44AM
When progressives want to do something in a big hurry, look out. They like to repeat some dumb mistake they have made in the past. They need to go onto the ash heap of history.
Ghost of Cicero (NB) | 7.27.12 @ 4:05PM
Jack Babbles:
"This is the first time we've had a massacre like this so it would be quite wrong to move quickly on anything."
Uh, maybe you forgot every mass shooting from the University of Texas sniper in the 60's to VA Tech.
irish19| 7.27.12 @ 6:42PM
He didn't forget. He wants to pin the whole sorry thing on conservatives, facts be damned.
Ross Kaminsky| 7.27.12 @ 8:47AM
Nancy and Mimi: Thanks very much.
"Jack": You've sunk to a new low.
Jack London| 7.27.12 @ 8:53AM
A new low? I asked you a simple question - what lessons? It's apparent that gun control is off the table, as you state that your views haven't changed. Then you go into a rant about people who would like to make sensible changes. Then you say, 'lessons to learn'. So what are they?
Pecos Pete| 7.27.12 @ 9:10AM
You are at a new low, Jack. Remarkable. Even so, you must have learned a lesson or two from Ross's thoughtful comments on a tragedy. Name one, if you can.
Jack London| 7.27.12 @ 9:52AM
No - I can't see any lesson, and I did it read it. There's one lesson that usually comes from people who have suffered a huge loss (and that includes me by the way), and that is that they want to help to cut the chances of it happening to other people. Indeed, Ross says his callers 'called not for sympathy, but to help others'. But then what do we get? The 'power of community' and the usual attacks on people who do want to help to stop attacks like this.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 10:55AM
All that is necessary to stop violence like that is to have one person like me there.
If you look to the natural world, sheep, rabbits and gold fish are food.
Things like me are not on the menu.
Go back to your hole rabbit, there are wolves about.
Truth to Power| 7.27.12 @ 11:11AM
http://www.abc4.com/content/ab.....CM9dQ.cspx
This is what that looks like. The progressive would want some kind of kitchen knife control.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 12:29PM
Excellent example Truth to Power!
We have naked people running around eating peoples faces and stabbing people randomly and the liberals conclude that by disarming the sheep and rabbits the wolves will be kept at bay.
I recently (within the last three months) watched a video where police encounter a man breaking out the windows of some fast food establishment.
When confronted by police, the man draws back the long metal thing-a-magigy in preparation of hitting one of the policemen. Each of the policemen present responded to the lethal threat by shooting the man repeatedly.
For days, people like Jack lamented and complained about why the police didn't taze him, why did they shoot him sooooo many times.
Incapable of survival, if left to their own devices they will eventually be devoured by the Morlocks.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 11:42AM
Criminals prefer groups of people like you who bleat or squeal when they are being devoured.
I care nothing for the loss suffered by people of your ilk. In your cowardice you would deny everyone the right to defend themselves.
It is because of liberal rabbits and sheep who choose to muzzle the very sheep dogs who would protect them that they are later eaten by the wolves.
Eloi. You choose to appease the Morlocks and hope it is someone else who is later devoured.
Truth to Power| 7.27.12 @ 12:22PM
Are you talking to me? I thought I was agreeing with you by showing the benefit of a fellow citizen with a gun. I assure you I have never bleated in my life.
Drunken Sailor| 7.27.12 @ 2:01PM
Relax Truth. BH was shooting at Jack.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 5:24PM
Yes, Drunken Sailor is correct. Sorry I should have included a clarification by name so as to limit confusion during later posts.
Truncheon| 7.27.12 @ 12:16PM
You can't "cut the chances" of chaotic, insane acts of violence, you can only improve survivability. You do that by permitting sane folks to bear arms, so they can more efficiently neutralize the threat.
THKrupp| 7.27.12 @ 9:02AM
Ross,
This is one of your best articles.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 10:48AM
Ross;
Not to minimize the loss of others in anyway, but I do applaud you sir for being both brave enough to step up to the plate and emotionally strong enough to endure it.
I thank you sir for being one of those in whom our society can depend on.
Mistral| 7.27.12 @ 9:20AM
USA's violent society continues. Following the mass assault on the womb (65 million deaths so far); the subversion of young morals and sensitivities in schools and at home via video-games, X-Boxes, play-stations and perverse sex education programmes plus the mass advertising and glorification of gluttony and avarice, is it really so strange that America is the violent society par excellence? Gang warfare is now systemically inimical throughout. America even has the gall to export its violence to other countries violating the national sovereignty of other nation-states - Libya, Syria, Iraq etc., etc. More mass murders to come folks because it is society in which it incubates and broadcasts itself officially.
DTOM| 7.27.12 @ 11:29AM
When are you leaving? Or do you hold your beliefs only tightly enough to be a permanent malcontent?
America didn't invent violence. Violence is as old as humanity. It is as old as life.
And America is NOT the most violent society today, take a look at any serious Muslim country. We have never stoned anybody for "adultery." A long time ago we used to duck them into the river - but we never buried them up to their necks and then made the neighbors throw stones at them until they were dead.
We never built gas chambers to murder unpopular groups of innocents. (Germany) We never confiscated farmer's crops to make sure they starved. (Russia/Soviet Union) We never decided that wearing glasses meant a person should be killed with a shovel (China, Cambodia)
You are absolutely full of bologna when you suggest that America is the progenitor of violence.
Abortion is horrific- its practitioners will receive their 'reward' in their time. We are working to change it.
Libya, Syria, Iraq, (funny you forgot IRan) have been very self-sufficient in the murder-torture business long before we showed up.
You hate this country - your spelling of "programmes" suggests that you are actually British. Go home - and if you are home, stay home. And be quiet about our country. Britain has plenty of its own problems, thank you. Your understanding of history is so distorted that you speak gibberish.
Don't Tread On Me
PS I thought we got rid of you people in the 1770's and in 1812.
irish19| 7.27.12 @ 6:46PM
"America even has the gall to export its violence to other countries violating the national sovereignty of other nation-states - Libya, Syria, Iraq etc., etc. "
That is quite possibly the single stupidest thing I have ever read on this blog. That includes the fantasies and idiocy of the many trolls past and present-whose names I shall not type lest I invoke them.
KyMouse| 7.27.12 @ 9:23AM
Drudge this morning has a link to an article about comedian Dane Cook's stand-up routine, in which he joked about the Aurora theatre shootings. At first the audience groaned, then laughed and cheered.
The only time I ever went to an improv club, the audience was so drunk, they'd have laughed at anything. I hope Cook's audience didn't really understand what they were doing.
DTOM| 7.27.12 @ 11:41AM
KyM;
I have long thought that stand-up comedians giving live performances to PAYING audiences have a built-in advantage. The audiences know that if the comedian is not funny, they've been robbed. So people hear one chuckle in response to a bad joke and the whole audience jumps on board because otherwise they feel like chumps....which in a lot of cases they actually are.
Today comedians offer endless outrageousness instead of those insightful, ironic, self-reflective observations that used to be the mainstay of comedy. But those observations take thought, time, wit, and the courage to recognize and call us out on our human foibles.
Nope, now comedy is nothing but smut, slurs, insults, and complete indifference to real human tragedy.
And if you don't laugh, they took your money and made you the fool...So who really should be laughing? And who should be throwing the rotten tomatoes?
Don't Tread On Me...
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 11:54AM
I know it's off topic, I do agree with your assessment of what generally passes for humor but!
I went to see the comedian Sinbad recently. I do not like his politics and only went to humor my son.
Let me suffice it to say that I laughed so hard I must have missed a third of what he said. I don't think it was so much an act as much as the man is just naturally hilarious.
I came away from the show happy and stayed that way for three days straight.
mike 3/505| 7.27.12 @ 9:38AM
Ross,
Nicely Done.
Mike
TLP| 7.27.12 @ 9:42AM
Not for nothin, but we see these Tradgedies Every Day, Week, Month, and Year, in every Democrat Controlled Big City, in this Country
We've got, what amounts to Government Sanctioned Riots, going on all the time, and nobody says boo.
We've got Democrat City Council People, Minority Race Pimps, and Liberal Rags, like WAPO, the New York Times, and the Urinal and Constipation, down in Atlanta, out there BLAMING THE COPS, for what Their Homeboys are doing to their Own people, and everybody else, as well.
See how the DEMOCRAT POLITICIANS, with the help of the Pulitzer Prize Winning AP, are going after New York's Finest, as they work to REDUCE the Gun Violence, in these people's OWN NEIGHBORHOODS, with their PROVEN Stop and Frisk Program.
AP got their Liberal Award for their Editorial Onslaught against the NYPD, and their "Overly Aggressive" attempts at Saving Lives in these Minority Communities.
94% of Murder Victims in New York, are Minorities.
96% of the time, they are Murdered by their own kind.
This Movie Shooting is a DISTRACTION from the Far Worse Stuff, that happens Every Day, in Amerca's Democrat Controlled Inner Cities, under the Rule of President Apocalypse No Jobs.
MK48| 7.27.12 @ 11:32AM
Beware Tim...........the big theft is comming as our focus is on other things.
This group are magicians "look here while I take away more of your liberty".
He knows he can't win on his record it's all smoke and mirrors.
My fear is we will wake up in November and ask ourselves what the Fu*k just happened.
Posting on TAS is fine but you are preaching to people of like minds. We need to go out and educate the ones that are to busy trying to provide for their familys and get them to vote.
It might be to late...............
MK48| 7.27.12 @ 11:36AM
Texas/Virgina.....Voter Fraud
Look up Voter Participation Center....they are sending voter forms to the dead, dogs & cats.
Who is Harold Ikies (sp)..............??
TLP| 7.28.12 @ 2:28PM
He's a New York Liberal Scumbag.
His Puke Father (May he Burn in Hell) was a Big Time Organized Crime UNION ATTORNEY.
He's as RED as they get?
TLP| 7.29.12 @ 8:05PM
And, it's "Ickies".
scotchieguy| 7.27.12 @ 10:23AM
Why is Ashley having a kid at age 19? She is not even old enough to drink. More importantly, why the hell did she bring a SIX year old to what many critics are calling an excessively sadistic and violent movie lasting nearly three hours? That says all you need to know about our decadent culture.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 12:03PM
I was married 34 years ago at the age of 19.
You know nothing of her values or circumstances.
Given the circumstances, for you to single her out as symptomatic of societal ills in this venue is misguided and in poor taste.
TLP| 7.27.12 @ 3:51PM
Gotta agree with Boar Hunter.
She took her kid to A MOVIE.
She's not supposed to have "Oh my God. My child might be killed" in the back of her mind.
If you follow the Batman Movies, then you know that Alfred confronted a Crying young Bruce Wayne, when he thought that he was responsible for the death of his parents, because he was scared, and wanted to leave.
Alfred put his hands on young Master Bruce's shoulders and said: "It wasn't your fault. It was Him. Only, Him."
Let's not lose track of THE TRUTH.
Conservative Bob| 7.27.12 @ 12:17PM
Scotchie
Are you suggesting that she is responsible for her own injuries or the death of the 5 year old? That theater could have been showing anything.... the monster had made his decision he was going to go there and kill as many as he could.
She was simply a target of opportunity. I would suggest that another time and another forum may be a better place to discuss her life choise.
No one knows what quirk of fate will put them in the right or wrong plaec at the exat right or wrong moment. In fact Ross spoke near this in talking about the guilt of the survivors. why did the shoot aim at eh person immediately next to someone and not them?
The victims of this horrendous act did nothing to bring it on themselves. they simply were going about their daily lives.
I won't argue with the decline of our culture etc, but really this comes off as pretty cold and heartless in this particular thread given what happened to the woman and the 6 year old.
Conservative Bob| 7.27.12 @ 12:18PM
I agree for the call for an edit button...
Conservative Bob| 7.30.12 @ 12:48PM
Update Her unborn child died over the weekend.
C. Vernon Crisler | 7.27.12 @ 10:47AM
I think the death penalty is appropriate even for the insane. It depends on the level of planning and premeditation. If a psycho was rational enough to plan out his attack in detail, fry him. If his "planning" consisted in the sort of bizarre stuff one associates with a deranged person, then maybe life in an asylum is appropriate.
Gun control: Unfortunately people just take extreme positions on this subject: no middle ground at all. Surely, we can agree that Internet sales of ammunition and guns should be banned. How can one possibly do a background check in that case? I know the pro-gun advocates have all of their little arguments for absolute libertarian freedom of gun ownership, but they should imagine themselves in that movie theater and wonder if their little arguments stand up to the nightmarish reality.
The anti-gun people are just as extreme. I doubt whether this psycho would have been stopped by even the toughest gun laws. If these liberals want to talk about controling guns, perhaps they should start by talking about making it easier to commit mentally deranged people to supervision -- contrary to the wishes of the ACLU.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 12:08PM
Comedian Ron White has actually expressed his (my) view of the death penalty in regards to the "insane" very nicely.
He's crazy? Well I guess he should have rolled his turds into balls and eaten his crayons cause the penalty is far less severe.
Drunken Sailor| 7.27.12 @ 12:11PM
Vernon, Internet gun sales are background checked and the gun has to be shipped to a local dealer for pickup.
KyMouse| 7.27.12 @ 10:52AM
"One point of polite debate among callers was the notion -- which I must admit would never have occurred to me -- of praying for the shooter. While I still don't really understand the idea..."
Jesus' command to pray for our enemies is found in the Sermon on the Mount, in Matthew 5:44: "Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you..."
I don't believe He said it in order to give us a "coping mechanism," as one of the radio callers said. We are commanded to care for each other sincerely, remembering how many of our own sins He paid for on the cross. I have not massacred people in a theatre, but I am just as much a sinner as Holmes or anyone else. My sins just happen to be different ones.
KyMouse| 7.27.12 @ 10:53AM
Continuing that thought... I think C. S. Lewis pointed out that when we pray for someone who has done something awful, we aren't saying that he should not face consequences (even the death penalty) for what he has done. I believe Lewis said that a guilty man should give himself up and be hanged.
He did, however (if memory serves), say that we should want for the guilty person what we would want for ourselves -- repentance and redemption, and turning away from evil and toward the good. That is what is meant by loving our enemies as we love ourselves.
And I should want, and pray, for Holmes to find what I have found -- the free gift of forgiveness for all of my sins through God's grace, through faith in Jesus' finished work on the cross. In the meantime, I must remember that as a sinner, I am no better than Holmes, and have hurt people in my own way.
I remember a verse my grandfather used to recite:
"Lord, give me eyes that I may see, lest I, as people will, should pass another's Calvary and think it just a hill."
KyMouse| 7.27.12 @ 11:00AM
Continuing...By the way, I do know what it is to suffer an attack. When I was in graduate school, a man I did not know knocked on my apartment door. When I opened it, he tried to kill me. My neighbors came to my rescue.
It turned out that he had already beaten one person to death, in another state, after forcing his way into the person apartment.
It took me a long time to start praying for him, and doing so doesn't mean that I don't think he should be held accountable for his crimes. It's just that we had one crucial thing in common -- we're both sinners who needed the Savior. I'm still praying that he finds Him, as I did.
Boar Hunter| 7.27.12 @ 12:12PM
You sir are a great example and an inspiration.
My greatest stumbling block is the command to "love" my enemies.
Drunken Sailor| 7.27.12 @ 12:13PM
KYMouse,
You're a bigger person than I think I would have been. Good for you.
Occam's Tool| 7.27.12 @ 2:04PM
KY: you are considerably better than this fellow. Please.
Most medicated mentally ill people are not violent.
Ronsch| 7.27.12 @ 12:51PM
Ross,
I am truly sorry for the loss of your younger brother previously, and that it occurred on the same day as the shootings makes it, I would imagine, doubly difficult.
On the subject of gun control...it is all about control from the left's point of view. It does not matter to them whether the magazine capacity was ten rounds, fifty, or one hundred. They want to tell us what we can and cannot do in their narrow world view.
The fact we have chuckleheads on this site like Alan Brooks (aka Brooksie and Brookschwarenegro), Purp, Jack London, Jack in Wi, and all of the others supporting the current regime, and indeed, any "democratic" regime just shows that we the people are losing the rights allotted to us, one piece at a time and that the accomplices are among us already.
TLP| 7.27.12 @ 3:54PM
I, too, am sorry for your loss.
May God Bless, and Keep your Brother.
I mean that, sincerely.
Occam's Tool| 7.27.12 @ 2:03PM
The way to minimize the numbers of these types of killings is to make it easier for MH professionals to do their job for their patients against their patients' wishes, if necessary.
This is NOT a GUN issue. It is a Mental Health Treatment issue. It is brutally hard to medicate someone against their will if they are mentally ill.
My condolences on your brother, Ross.
Ghost of Cicero (NB) | 7.27.12 @ 3:40PM
From the Article:
"...but if there truly were a chemical issue or disease that prevented the perpetrator from knowing that what he was doing was wrong, and especially if that problem can be controlled with medicine or surgery, it is difficult (at least for me) to be certain that the state should take his life."
Well, from what I've read, there WAS a chemical imbalance in play with this putz. He was jacked up on 100 mgs of vicodin. Having recently had a torn rotator cuff repaired, I can say from experience that 25 mgs through the course of ONE DAY was enough to make me loopy & restless. I've had kidney stones, & been pumped full of dilaudid (up to 4 mgs) & been the same way. I cannot IMAGINE how out of this world someone would be if they ingested that large a quantity of painkillers.
That being said, its still no excuse. Its NO different than any other addict shooting up the place. To me, the fact that the guy's obviously a doper doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer. And if he IS ill, no amount of "couseling" in a state mental institution will rehabilitate him. The appeals process will certainly be long, & will keep this schmuck's name & face in the news, I think its best that we do as Mr. Kaminsky's one caller said & "fry 'em."
As far as gun control is concerned, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. I have a shotgun for home & a handgun to carry. I don't think I'll ever need to them where I live. But I'd rather have them than NOT.
Occam's Tool| 7.27.12 @ 3:51PM
There may be drug abuse. However, I'm wondering about a kid who was a Phi Beta Kappa student, good in both the Humanities and Science, getting a graduate grant and then suddenly deteriorating. Oxycodone abuse does not normally make one dress up as a Batman villian.
I'd like to have this guy evaluated and medicated. More importantly, chronic psychotics who are not compliant with their meds and have a history of dangerousness to themselves or others need medication involuntarily.
Ghost of Cicero (NB) | 7.27.12 @ 4:14PM
You're right, Doc. I DO think that there may be underlying causes there. However, I think that THIS jerk is BEYOND help. And he's a danger to society, obviously. Evaluate him while he's in the clink, then throw the switch on him.
Either that, or throw him into general population & let the cons who despise those who harm women & kids (and there are TONS) take care of him.
Occam's Tool| 7.28.12 @ 11:59PM
Can't argue, Ghost.
7kidchaos| 7.28.12 @ 9:25AM
About 22,000 people are murdered in the United States each year. Yet only about 50 of the killers are executed each year. The wild, wild west was much, much safer then than Chicago is today (with about 90 murders per month). Sadly, the killers are winning. It's odd to me that we don't execute our killers.
Mistral| 7.28.12 @ 1:37PM
We can tell from many comments here that many Americans are in complete denial about just how violent their society has become and just how rotten it is from the core.
UK is going the same way but at a slower pace.
The rank corruption festers so malignantly that most of you accept implicitly the current situation. This is so because you are propagandised by your own media - avarice and gluttony are sanctified while the continual subversion of sovereign nation-states is now considered normal.
One of the most significant factors about Americans as political animals is how grossly ignorant they are about politics; how inferior is their world knowledge and, following surveys prior to the last presidential election, many of you thought Obama's running mate was sarah Palin and that he was against abortion. Laughable but utterly lamentable.
Crime both common and white-collar is bringing USA to its knees while the govt does the rest by having bankrupted the coffers with its thoughtless self-aggrandising imperialism. And here we are with most Americans imagining they are the greatest nation that ever lived and that they are a beacon of freedom. Freedom for what we may well ask.
Ross Kaminsky| 7.29.12 @ 10:42AM
I'd like to offer my sincere thanks to those who offered their sympathies on the loss of my brother. It's like a scar which hurts a little bit all the time, but for me the worst thing is the impact on my mother, whom I think may never truly be happy again.
Also, thanks to those of you who complimented this particular article.
Part of the reason I enjoy writing for AmSpec so much is the quality of the commenters. Even when we disagree, it's usually an interesting discussion.
cl00bie| 7.30.12 @ 3:58PM
It's interesting to note that Ice-T, the "cop hater", plays a cop on Law and Order: SVU. :)
Bill8472| 7.31.12 @ 1:23PM
Should a mentally ill person who commits first degree murder be executed for his crime?
People who are homicidal and mentally ill are the least predictable people on the face of the earth. Once we know that they are both crazy and capable of murder, they must be removed from our midst because there is no way they will ever be predictable.
One might claim that they could be cured of their mental illness, but they will not be cured of their murderous impulses, and we know that people who are NOT mentally ill can commit murder. So the mentally ill murderer is a double threat.
That is why mentally ill murderers should be eligible for capital punishment.