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Sports Arena
All-Time All-Stars: Part II
Who is the greatest all-time pitcher?
Trying to choose the greatest pitcher of all time is at least as difficult as trying to choose the greatest hitter of all time. In both cases, the best we can do is narrow down the list.
Outside a charmed circle of five batters, no one had both a higher lifetime batting average and a higher lifetime slugging average than any of those five. In alphabetical order, they are Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, Babe Ruth, and Ted Williams. There are other batters whose lifetime records came close, including Barry Bonds, Jimmie Foxx, and Hank Greenberg. But close cannot define the greatest.
When it comes to choosing the all-time greatest pitcher, there are even more complications than there are in choosing the candidates for the all-time greatest batter. Batting is much more of an individual achievement, while a pitcher’s record depends on what his team does, both at bat and in the field.
A great pitcher who is pitching for a team that scores very few runs may have a tougher time winning games than a pitcher who gives up an average of 3 runs a game, but who is pitching for a team that scores an average of 5 runs a game for him.
When a pitcher has a great double-play combination behind him at shortstop and second base, or a Willie Mays or Joe DiMaggio in center field, that can also keep his earned run average down.
With pitchers, as with batters, a spectacular season should not carry as much weight as a whole career of great achievements. Back in the early 20th century, there were a couple of 40-game winners, and 37-game winner Iron Man McGinnity on several occasions pitched both games in a double-header. But pitching a lot of games in a season was not a formula for longevity.
On the other hand, total wins in a lifetime cannot be the sole criterion, since that obviously depends on longevity as much as on pitching effectiveness. Weighing strikeouts against earned run averages can also vary from one observer to the next.
Since the ultimate purpose of pitching is not simply to strike out batters but to keep the other team from scoring, I would give a lot of weight to shutouts. Here one man stands head and shoulders above the rest.
Walter Johnson is the only pitcher to pitch more than a hundred shutouts in his career — 110, in fact. Playing for a team that was not always among the best, more than one-fourth of his 416 career victories were shutouts.
With even the greatest pitchers of our era seldom going the full nine innings, Walter Johnson’s 110 shutouts seems to be the baseball record least likely to be broken. In order to compare the pitchers of our time with those of the past, earned run averages may have to be used.
Walter Johnson’s lifetime earned run average was 2.17. Christy Mathewson had a lifetime ERA of 2.13, but Mathewson played for better teams. It is hard to think of any other pitcher whose lifetime records top theirs, except for records based on sheer longevity, like Cy Young’s 511 victories. Cy Young had a lifetime ERA of 2.63 — obviously great, but not the greatest.
Hard as it is to narrow down the candidates for the title of greatest batter of all time, or the greatest pitcher of all time, selecting who should be nominated as having the greatest versatility seems a lot easier.
There is only one baseball player who, at various times, led the league in both batting and pitching categories. That one man was Babe Ruth.
The Bambino had a league-leading batting average of .378 in 1924 and hit .393 the previous year, when Harry Heilmann hit .403. When it came to home runs, Ruth was the only man to lead the league in that category in 12 different seasons.
Babe Ruth’s records as a pitcher are not nearly as well known. But he led the league in ERA with 1.75 in 1916. His lifetime ERA was 2.28, putting him in the company of the greatest pitchers of all time. The Babe still holds the American League record for the most shutouts in a season by a left-handed pitcher, and holds the record for the longest shutout ever pitched in the World Series — 14 innings.
Is anyone else even close to leading the league in both of these very different and very fundamental aspects of baseball?
COPYRIGHT 2012 CREATORS.COM
About the Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305. His website is www.tsowell.com. To find out more about Thomas Sowell and read features by other Creators Syndicate columnists and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
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Doctor Right| 7.11.12 @ 7:46AM
Nolan Ryan.
He pitched for 27 years, and still had blazing smoke when he retired.
324 career wins, and a league-leading 5,700 strikeouts. The second-place guy in strikeouts is almost 900 batters behind him.
Ryan is the only p,Ayer in MLB history to have his jersey number retired by 3 different teams.
Doctor Right| 7.11.12 @ 7:48AM
...and how could I forget the 7 no-hitters???
7!!!!
CJW| 7.11.12 @ 8:37AM
And he put a headlock on the 23 year old batter who charged him in Ryan's last year, and pounded him.
Aaron Goldstein| 7.11.12 @ 11:36AM
That young batter was Robin Ventura who is now the manager of the Chicago White Sox. Mr. Ventura has thus far resisted the temptation to storm the owner's box when the Chisox play in Arlington. If Mr. Ryan doesn't get them then Mrs. Ryan surely will.
CJW| 7.11.12 @ 8:35AM
For one season, Pgh Pirates relief pircher Roy Face won 18 straight games in relief, believe it was 1959. He was 5'6" 160lbs, threw a forkball, and in the off season worked as a carpenter. Had a great career as the Pirates closer.
cuban pete| 7.11.12 @ 8:54AM
Barack Obama.
His records have been sealed and no one recalls what team he played for or seeing him pitch but he was the greatest.
Someone recalls that he struck out facing Obama but he can't be sure.
Plus his uniform was always always very sharp.
Al Adab| 7.11.12 @ 11:10AM
Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Nolan Ryan all long productive careers. Kofax, Ford, etc shorter. Anyone remember Grover Clevland Alexander?
But frnakly, I saw the womesn softball college world series a couple years back and a Univ. of AZ pitcher Alisha Hollawell (sp) pitched six games in five days and won them all. How does that compare with these guys who throw six innings every five days?
East 811| 7.11.12 @ 4:04PM
Grover Cleveland Alexander won 28 games as a rookie in 1911, the most ever. And, the record still stands today.
Regarding the softball pitcher you reference, you lost me at 'softball'. It's apples and oranges to compare a college softball pitcher to any major league pitcher. The distance from the pitcher's mound to home plate in softball is 15 feet closer than in Major League Baseball. If the distance were 60 feet, 6 inches, you might have an argument.
Crassus| 7.11.12 @ 11:20AM
When you win 27 games in a season and your team only wins a total of 59 you're pretty damn good. Right, Steve Carlton?
CJW| 7.11.12 @ 2:47PM
I saw Carlton one hit the Pirates when we had one of the best teams with Clemente, Stargell, Oliver, Hebner, Sanguillen, all great hitters. He was dominating.
astorian| 7.11.12 @ 11:23AM
At their peaks, Pedro Martinez and Randy Johnson were the most dominant pitchers ever.
But I'd say the three best pitchers ever, in terms of long-term sustained dominance, were Lefty Grove, Walter Johnson and Roger Clemens.
Al Adab| 7.11.12 @ 1:37PM
Astorian:
I watched a Randy Johnson 140 pitch complete game. His final pitch clocked at 101MPH. Scary good. That's why its so hard to compare from different eras, number of games, wins per starts and as Crassus mentions exceptional seasons. What stat would be the best: strike outs per inning pitched? Wins to loses? opponant ERA? ...and over how many seasons to be a good comparison? That is all part of the fun of the game.
Butch| 7.11.12 @ 6:02PM
Did you ever see that video where the Big Unit was pitching and that bird flew to exactly the wrong spot at exactly the wrong time? My copy stopped with a big perfectly circular mass of blood and feathers.
Paul McGrath| 7.11.12 @ 11:31AM
I can't speak to those before my time, although, yes, the statistics of Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson are spectacular. If I had to pick my all time, timeless dream team, Koufax is my lefty and Bob Gibson is my righty.
cuban pete| 7.11.12 @ 2:04PM
Hard to argue with your picks.
The mound was lowered because of Gibson.
J.C.Eaton| 7.11.12 @ 2:04PM
A recent MLB evaluation had Grover C. Alexander as the most dominant. But as an observer above correctly points out: the variables of era, team strength, defensive and offensive support all need to factor in. Having said that, using the noted caveats, surely a case can be made for Old Hoss Radbourn pitching virtually every day for the 1884 Providence Grays. He won 59 games that season which has less chance of being surpassed than Mr. Johnson's 110 shutouts. Doctor Right's case for Nolan Ryan is a tough one to argue against....7 No-hitters ain't cheese. And being a Robin Ventura fan and observing the complete pounding Ryan administered, well, only increases my respect. Having watched Bob Gibson and Warren Spahn and Drysdale and Koufax along with the effervescent Marichal, all in person makes the mind reel. For all of the names, records, benchmarks, and b.s., only one guy did it all, and for the most part, did it the best: Mr. Ruth,now and always, the game's greatest star.
RJ| 7.12.12 @ 12:25AM
I viewed "Old Hoss" Radbourn's career page on baseball-reference.com a few weeks ago and was blown away. Of the pitchers I never saw, I thought Walter Johnson was the best.
Growing up, Koufax was my favorite, but I have to acknowledge that Dodger Stadium was a very favorable pitcher's park in those days and he, along with the other pitchers of the 60s, had an expanded strike-zone. Nolan Ryan was certainly a fan favorite and what is most amazing to me is how he pitched for so well into his 40s. Both Ryan and Gibson were better in their thirties than their twenties; pretty unusual for power pitchers.
Occam's Tool| 7.11.12 @ 2:10PM
Guys, aren't we forgetting Cy Young? 815 career games started; 749 career complete games, over FIVE HUNDRED wins? Fastball caused the pitcher's mound to be MOVED BACK 5 feet? Pitcher of the Year award named after? Lifetime ERA 2.63, while almost all his games were complete games? 815 games started, pitcher of record in 827 of them? Finished complete games in 91.9% of games started? Won 61.7% of all games that he was pitcher of record for? Won BOTH games of a double header in 1890?
As Kim Jong Il would say in TEAM AMERICA, "Herooooo? Anywone Dere?"
On the other hand, Mathewson and Walter Johnson were not only great players, they were great men, as well. Mathewson served in the First World war and was known for his wisdom and gentlemanly behavior, while Johnson was one of the nicest men ever to play the game, and well loved by all his contemporaries.
This is important. Of course, I met Ernie Banks personally and think the world of him, and we all know how Roberto Clemente died and what he was heroically doing at the time.
cuban pete| 7.11.12 @ 5:04PM
OT,
Even at the height of his celebrity in Chicago Banks was cordial and accessible.
Bob Feller the eldest son of a farm family had an automatic deferment in WWII but he joined the Navy and saw combat.
Had he pitched during the war he probably would have thrown a few more no hitters.
J.C.Eaton| 7.11.12 @ 2:33PM
Occam, point taken. But you overlook the estimable Wilbur Wood, who like wise started and won both halves of a double -header[ I think] in the rollicking Bill Veeck era. Best,
tdiinva| 7.11.12 @ 7:31PM
If WW hadn't had his leg destroyed by a line drive he would have pitched to age 50 like his mentor Hoyt Wilhelm and won 350+ games.
East 811| 7.11.12 @ 3:54PM
My starting five would be: Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Bob Feller, Randy Johnson, and Greg Maddux.
cuban pete| 7.11.12 @ 5:07PM
If I was playing one game against the Russians for the fate of the free world Jack Morris would be my starting pitcher.
Paul McGrath| 7.11.12 @ 5:23PM
10 inning shutout in the seventh game of a
World Series. As I said before, he should be in the HOF for that alone!
MikeBee| 7.11.12 @ 5:06PM
I would have to include Warren Spahn in any list of the top five pitchers.
RJ| 7.12.12 @ 12:32AM
If I recall correctly, Koufax said that any list of the top pitchers would need to include Warren Spahn.
Doctor Right| 7.11.12 @ 10:32PM
For pure finesse?
Jim Palmer. Hands down.
Bob K| 7.11.12 @ 11:02PM
Haven't seen Tom Seaver mentioned here. Certainly one of the top half dozen pitchers in history. In the live ball era after WWII only Warren Spahn threw more shutouts, 63 to Seaver's 61. Lifetime ERA of 2.86, in the live ball era behind only Ford and Koufax. Only pitcher in baseball history to have 10 consecutive K's. List goes on and on.
RJ| 7.12.12 @ 12:30AM
Right on, Bob. Seaver was really a better pitcher than Ryan (better control and he still had a 98mph fastball), but the strike-out king and no-hitter ace eventually overshadowed Tom Terrific. Seaver certainly is one of the great ones.
bigbrother | 7.12.12 @ 1:56AM
My favorite pitcher is... the frosty one the waitress just delivered to the table. Cheers!
Venjones| 7.12.12 @ 11:26PM
I have read of Walter Johnson that his fast pitch was so fast it would cause catchers and umpires to involuntarily close their eyes. I've also heard that Ty Cobb was able to hit off Johnson because he figured out a weakness. Johnson was afraid of killing someone with a pitch so Cobb would crowd the plate and Johnson would slow down.
Don't know for sure if this is true but it's wonderful baseball lore.
RJ| 7.13.12 @ 1:15AM
I would love to be able to see a game of that era. It was truly a sport rather than today's game of entertainment. To see Walter Johnson pitch against against Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb would really be something.