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The Perils of Intervention in Syria
May 7, 2013 | 37 comments
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Another Perspective
Dragging America Into Turkey’s War with Syria?
Once again NATO demonstrates just how outmoded it has become.
(Page 2 of 2)
This isn’t a problem limited to Turkey. Proposals to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO are short-sighted for many reasons. The most important is that the U.S. has no cause to make their disputes, especially with Russia, America’s own. There’s certainly nothing at stake which warrants promising to go to war for them against a nuclear armed Russia. Indeed, Tbilisi shot first in its short 2008 conflict with Russia, yet apparently still expected U.S. backing even while outside the alliance.
Instead of expanding or even maintaining NATO, Washington should be leaving NATO. The security argument for Washington’s defense of Europe disappeared years ago. The U.S. is essentially bankrupt while the Europeans have a larger GDP than do Americans. Other issues warrant cooperation with rather than defense by Washington.
The worsening confrontation between Turkey and Syria offers a sharp reminder that NATO is not only expensive for but dangerous to America. This is no time to preserve an outmoded alliance for the sake of nostalgia. The U.S. cannot afford to be drawn into additional disastrous wars in Syria or elsewhere.
About the Author
Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. A former Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan, he is the author and editor of several books, including The Politics of Plunder: Misgovernment in Washington (Transaction).
Letter to the Editor View all comments (35) | Leave a comment
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MelvinNC| 7.2.12 @ 8:03AM
Since politics have changed post Soviet Union, then maybe NATO needs a new image or name change. One name comes to mind rather quickly instead of NATO how about NITWIT. Quite fitting isn't it? Considering the current circumstances.
If Europe wants to be embroiled in a religious war then count us out. If memory serves me right. Turkey flexed it's gonads and wanted to be a world power on the worlds stage. Then who are we to stop it. Let Europe and a gonad swinging Turkey fight their own wars, it's about time they started doing things on their own without us.
Besides our national interest should not be in a sphere of European Countries still settling old ancient political scores, which are holdovers form the Ottoman years.
How many times have we looked for Turkey's support and they gave us the finger, as well as a foot-dragging European or European Union, or whatever Europe call itself these days?
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 8:26AM
Melvin does make great points. Especially the last one.
But, I gotta say, if we could saddle up with Stalin, to fight Hitler? We can saddle up with this Turkey, in Turkey.
Assad must go.
He is the "Friend of my Enemy" and so, I will Kill him, and further Isolate my Enemy in that Region.
Hegemony 101.
Dai Alanye | 7.2.12 @ 12:18PM
While I regularly disagree with Bandow on foreign policy, and consider him a stealth Paulbot, he is correct that NATO ought to go. At the very least we should threaten to leave unless the Eurps start behaving more responsibly. And then, of course, we should follow through on that threat.
As far as Syria goes, however, they are a long-time enemy and an enabler of Iran. If we have a chance to take out Assad we should do it, even though his replacement quite possibly won't be much better.
aware| 7.2.12 @ 5:24PM
You'll need every "Paulbot" you can get your hands on if you want to drag the nag of candidate who doesn't happen to be Obama across the victory line.
Or is the plan now to insult them continuously and then blame them for insufficient "patriotism" when you come up short against the unions and voter fraud in November?
If you and Herr TLP think "we" need to "take out" Syria, it sounds like you could just join the Turkish army and get your wish. Form up your own Abraham Lincoln Brigade and have at it.
Brooksifier | 7.2.12 @ 3:05PM
If Germany really went through a postwar miracle, then can it miraculously defend itself without our troops and without NATO?
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 8:19AM
Perhaps one of our esteemed Resident Liberal A-Holes, can explain how sending Forces in to Libya, to take out a Drug Addled Crazy Man with a face full of Mascara and Rouge, and surrounded by Strippers, who wasn't bothering ANYBODY, was the Right Thing to do?
And, why doing ANYTHING regarding the Mass Murdering Son of a Mass Murdering Father, in Syria, is the absolute Worst thing that could possibly happen, and we ought not lift a finger to help the THOUSANDS of people who are being Slaughtered in the streets?
C'mon DRed.
Why don't you and your buddy RCV fill us in on the Wisdom of your Boy's "Pick and Choose where to Meddle" Foreign Policy.
Tell us how a coupla Hundred Dead Civilians in Libya was good enough to send in Bombers, but a coupla THOUSAND Dead Syrians is not.
RCV| 7.2.12 @ 11:28AM
TLP: As you correctly point out, Assad is indeed a "murdering piece of MFing Sh*t, and Iran's personal hand puppet." I'd be delighted to see someone take his sorry life out anytime, and if an errant drone hit him instead of Sheik Musa Ibn Al-whathisname, it would not cause me to lose any sleep.
But the notion that we should not "pick and choose" where to meddle is a dumb idea. Of course we should. The situation in Libya presented an ideal opportunity to take out a lunatic who had slaughtered innocent Americans and blown up GIs in Germany, without wider area repurcussions. In the case of Syria, we have to be concerned about spillover into Israel -- which is certainly not chomping at the bit for us to start a major conflict right next door.
We also intervened in Libya only when Ghadaffi was just about to finish the deal with the rebels. From the look of things in Syria, Assad may likely fall without our help.
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 5:21PM
Bullshit.
If Libya was a golden opportunity to take out Khaddafi, who had Killed Americans?
Then, what do you call a chance to rid the World of a Mass Murdering Psychopath, who Slits the Throats of Women and Children, and is poised to be the Right Hand Man of a Regime who is INTENT on Bringing about Armageddon, in the Middle East?
C'mon, man. You're not Stupid.
When you get The Shot?
You Take It.
It might spill over to Israel?
If we leave him where he is?
That conflict will be Inevitable.
If he's taken out NOW?
Well, that changes the pieces on the Chess Board, doesn't it.
Do you really think that the Israelis want this POS alive?
C'mon.
RCV| 7.2.12 @ 6:05PM
Actually I do think the Israelis would rather have Assad then risk the Brotherhood. But even if they wanted him taken out, I think they'd rather have him taken out swiftly and cleanly instead of with an armed conflict in the area. That would be my choice as well. But I would n't weep a tear if NATO decided to do a surgical strike that happened to get him.
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 7:15PM
One cruise missile, right through his Bedroom window.
I knew that you were a smart guy.
And, I appreciate your honesty.
Have a great 4th.
RCV| 7.2.12 @ 7:59PM
You as well.
canuckistani| 7.3.12 @ 11:02AM
Israel has already suffered defeats by militia armies, and Hamas/Hezbollah continue to have the hearts and minds of locals, so far.
The Muslim Brotherhood also has the goal of using soft power to undermine the relationship with Israel - a soft power that has also eaten into Israel's hardline support domestically and abroad.
History is littered with idealists that have captured independence through soft power. It is less pronounced than battlefield victories, but does work over time.
Losing another Arab strongman will only erode Israeli support even further. The US better be prepared for this eventuality.
Brooksifier | 7.2.12 @ 4:26PM
"Perhaps one of our esteemed Resident Liberal A-Holes, can explain how sending Forces in to Libya, to take out a Drug Addled Crazy Man with a face full of Mascara and Rouge, and surrounded by Strippers, who wasn't bothering ANYBODY, was the Right Thing to do?"
RCV is correct, and remember: Gaddhafi had promised no mercy (i.e. a future bloodbath) to his enemies and called them greasy rats, drug-fueled mice, and cockroaches. Gaddhafi got his just desserts.
canuckistani| 7.3.12 @ 11:06AM
The uprising started in the Arab spring that had zero to do with the US and everything to do with Europe's visceral fear of refugees and oil disruption. We dragged them to Iraq, so sometimes one folly must be repaid with another.
nathan| 7.2.12 @ 9:07AM
TLP this is simple. You're aware that according to published accounts the "rebels" have not been all that discrete about their cell phone usage and according to those published accounts we are told reliably that THEY are responsible for a lot of the massacres and trying to make it look like the government is doing it so that the west will come in on their side?
As with so much in areas like this, Africa included we seldom know enough (and we didn't in Kosovo either) to intervene intelligently. We're better off minding our own business. I refer you all to Pat Buchanan's most recent column. We've been playing neocon interventionist in the middle east for 30 years going back to the days of Saint Ronald and as he correctly points out, we have achieved NOTHING! Not one single positive thing. For those of you who think differently sing to us stories of our great successes. The great wars won, the multitudes freed. You can't.
Doug is right here. NATO should have died the moment the Wall fell. If the profligate Europeans want to spend money on social spending as opposed to defense, that's their call. We need to get out. Great column Mr. Bandow.
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 10:07AM
What do ya wanna know?
Assad is. Murdering piece of MFing Sh*t, and Iran's personal Hand Puppet.
I couldn't care less about the intricacies involved in any of these Scumbag Countries.
The MFer shot down a NATO Ally's plane, in International Waters.
Last I looked, that was an ACT OF WAR against all of NATO.
And, as good a reason to put a Cruise Missile through the MFer's Bedroom Window, as any.
nathan| 7.2.12 @ 11:16AM
No, actually it's not a good reason to attack him. He has not threatened us as in the United States as in AMERICANS in any way. He has not done any act of war against THIS country. Since he is leaving US alone we have no cause to attack him. You wouldn't care to cite the article of the Constitution that supports the actions you are advocating would you? Initiating hostilities against another country does require a declaration of war from Congress against said country. At least my copy of the Constitution says so. Was that left out in yours? Even the much vilified FDR with Pearl Harbor in smoking ruins took the time and trouble to ask for a declaration of war against those who blew the place up. If he could why couldn't every president since then do so?
And frankly "intricacies" matter. The details matter. Why should this country risk getting in bed with people who appear to be no better than the person they are opposing?
We have zero to gain in this fight and a lot to lose. We need to stay out of this and as Mr. Bandow said, get out of NATO altogether. One writer suggested that NATO should expand its reach to the Pacific? Imagine, "North Atlantic" being stretched to include an ocean 10,000 miles away. Enough already. Time to say NATO RIP.
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 5:25PM
You're an Ignorant Idiot.
Read the NATO CHARTER.
An attack on ONE, demands a Response by ALL of them.
Period.
RCV| 7.2.12 @ 6:07PM
Not to be too technical, TLP, but the Turkish jet was in Syrian airspace and under international law they had every right to do what they did. I'm kind of glad it drove the Turks a little further back into the NATO camp.
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 7:24PM
I don't wanna beat a DEAD HORSE, but this MFer has to go.
If you want to hang on to technicalities?
The Jet was Shot Down in International Waters.
It may have been in Syrian Space for a few seconds, but it was DOWNED, in International Waters.
By your reasoning. The South Korean Airliner - KAL 007 - shot down over the USSR when it strayed into their Airspace, DESERVED WHAT THEY GOT.
Is that what you're saying?
Cause that's what I'm hearing.
RCV| 7.2.12 @ 8:02PM
Not at all what I'm saying. Assad's actions would justify anything done to him by the international community. Shooting down a military plane that crossed into Syria's airspace wouldn't. It was a sustained intrusion as Turkey's own maps confirm.
But getting Assad wouldn't require such flimsy grounds. He deserves what he gets is what my bottom line is.
canuckistani| 7.3.12 @ 11:10AM
Assad knows it and is clinging to Russia as his foil. Russians are also pragmatists and will bail out before this heats up any further amongst NATO nations.
Turkey has been a durable and reliable ally of the US for years - and interestingly much more reliable than Israel. It is important that the US be there when Turkey calls, as they were for us countless times over the last 70 years.
JimH| 7.2.12 @ 9:55AM
The fact that the "North American" Treaty Organization ...
North Atlantic actually, but the poin is still valid.
J.C.Eaton| 7.2.12 @ 10:29AM
Mr. Bandow probably knows that as long ago as 1990, the U.S.Army War College, America's premier military "finishing school" had its' seminars consider reformulating NATO policy projects for the short and long-term future.After all, as he points out, the organization's mission had become anachronistic. The students came up with the then pleasant and optimistic theory of 'nation building", student exchanges, more invitations of schizophrenic "allied" officers into War College billets and on and on. The point was to continue the mission or rather the existence of an alliance whose mission had been completed. Few in the seminars said "let's give ourselves a pat on the back" and call it a day. And so it goes. Bandow, in my estimation is absolutely right:get the hell out of this bellicose little claque and drive on. But Congress will have to do it, Congress and a Chief Executive that knows what he's doing. The Generals will probably never let go willingly.
John786| 7.2.12 @ 10:53AM
It may be a surprise to one two here that the USA has been intervening in every ME country for best part of sixty+ years . And as a matter of fact it has had its fingers everywhere; usually supported by people on the site. Psst .....mums the word.
Bob K| 7.2.12 @ 1:32PM
It was inevitable because a nation's foreign policy is inseparable from it's domestic policies.
For over 40 years years our Domestic Energy Policy has been held hostage by a hidebound bureaucracy; the Environmental Protection Agency. And along with the government's hostile tax code they have made our nation a beggar of energy from the Middle East.
May I have a moment to summarize how it happens?
Saudi Arabia says "jump!" We say, "Yea Sheik, How high?" "Do you need anything else, Sheik? We must have our Foreign Ministers get together soon. Perhaps we can arrange for a little war that will benefit both of us?"
"You say those lunatic Shia Alawites have to go? Let's see what we can work out. We have to study how the people in our Democratic Republic will react to it first. You understand, I'm sure. Maybe we can get Turkey to attack them from behind?"
"Ho ho ho! We know that is an old Near Eastern Joke!"
And so, that's why we are discussing intervening in Syria!
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 5:28PM
Perhaps i f we DRILLED OUR OWN OIL, and did things like the XL PIPELINE, that would stop?
Hello?
canuckistani| 7.3.12 @ 11:15AM
Not even close, and the XL pipeline oil was going to Houston to be EXPORTED not used domestically. Now the Canadians want to pipe it the west coast and EXPORT it to China where they will use it to produce more Wal-mart specials.
Why? Because the Alberta oil is garbage that cannot be converted any more cheaply than Arab oil into the energy products we need.
Why do you think the Canadians are so eager to EXPORT it in the first place? They import their energy fuels just like we do.
Who Knows?| 7.2.12 @ 12:43PM
Parkinson’s Law---“Work expands to fill the time available for its completion.”
It seems like only yesterday when I read the book on this tendency of groups to enlarge. The statistic that stands out was about the British military, whose officer corps expanded, vastly, after WW II, even as the military shrank.
Bureaucrats ALWAYS hire more underlings---self-interest.
While we, in America, are stuck in concerns about the coming election, and especially the recent Obamacare decision by the SCOTUS, most other places on the Earth’s surface are living out tribal rivalries. Thus does the war between the rule of law and that of men play out, in a do or die way, not in the “high” civilized way of the USA.
Might DOES make right, despite the fragile veneer of a “living” Constitution.
Power DOES flow from the end of a gun.
Fat and spoiled America is wasting her patrimony, with today’s population shockingly ignorant of what’s going on for most “poor” bastards elsewhere. The days when “real” Americans conquered their portion of North America, by essentially wiping out the “savages”, are long gone, but they are basically what’s happening in places like Syria and Turkey. And, how tribally split up is Africa!
An aside---as the Olympics arrive, imagine the whole world as prosperous as the USA. If Africans had as much free time and swimming pools, I wonder if they wouldn’t dominate there, like they do in basketball and long distance running.
TLP| 7.2.12 @ 5:51PM
And, who's fault is it, that Africans don't have Swimming Pools?
God knows, they've got plenty of FREE TIME.
One need only look at Israel, to see what one can achieve, In Africa, when they live in a FREE, and CAPITALISTIC Society.
Don't blame US, for the Shit Lives of the Third World.
Have the UN give them Mirrors, so they can Look in to them.
canuckistani| 7.3.12 @ 11:21AM
Who's blaming the US?
Before Israel, the whole region was a colonial concern and we were active participants in undermining French Italian and British interests.
Show me a colony in the region that was not abandoned by their european masters? No infrastructures, no remnant cultural footprints - just scorched earth rapings of the land.
Our jewels were the deals with Saud and the Persians. Saudi still endures, but our constant screw-ups with the Persians led to today's predicament. The rest of the Muslim world is a hodgepodge of western entanglements, but nothing by design.
JR| 7.2.12 @ 1:49PM
Remember, this fella's govt is rushing to adopt Sharia law as fast as it can. In the old days the head guy set up safeguards to keep this from happening. The current govt has slowly been turning Turkey into a hardcore Islamic state and has pals in Iran, et al. Given the reasons in the article for not allowing the US to be suckered into another no win situation, the fact that we may now have to unwillingly support another Islamic regime should give us pause.
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 7.3.12 @ 4:44AM
Please my American brothers and sisters (because I am an American by birth) if you want to know the truth about what is happening in Syria please read the articles in the links below. 9000 Syrian Christians (one of the oldest Christian communities in the world predating Islam in Syria by many centuries) have been forced out of the city of Qusayr after a FREE SYRIAN ARMY (the anti-Assad opposition that enjoys US, UK, Israel, Turkey and Wahhabist Saudi Arabia and Wahhabist Qatar's support) leader named Abdel Salam Harba made an ultimatum for Christians to leave by next Friday. This followed a recent murder of a Christian man in the same city by sniper fire. Apparently the Wahhabist (Sunni Islamist scum) are announcing from Qusayr's minarets that Christian's are to leave. Then these Wahhabist scumbags ransacked St. Elias Greek Catholic Church desecrating the Church and even stealing garments only to be worn by the priest and sacred crosses.
http://www.rt.com/news/syrian-.....rches-897/
http://www.rt.com/news/syria-c.....ition-778/
Dimitry_Aleksandrovich| 7.3.12 @ 4:48AM
The biggest shame is I don't hear this from CNN or Fox News or the BBC. I guess the only war crimes they acknowledge are ones that support their goal of regime change in Syria.
This is breaking my heart and I know its only the beggining. These "rebels" or "freedom fighters" (who are really Wahhabist/Salafists or Sunni Islamists no different from Osama bin Laden) have vowed to forcibly push all of Syria's Christians to Lebanon and to kill all Shia Alawites. Once again these are allies of the United States who are being armed and trained by the CIA as we speak and funded by Wahhabist fanatic states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar along with the Turks who are looking to regain the foothold they once had in the Middle East starting with Syria.
Bob K| 7.5.12 @ 11:20AM
They are funded by Saudi Arabia with money they get from the United States citizenry for the Oil our country needs to run it's economy.
We need that oil because our Domestic Environmental Policies and Tax Code for the last 40 years have made it impossible to produce inexpensive, reliable energy from nuclear, petroleum by products, and coal any more.
We are left to resort to natural gas (which will soon be regulated and taxed) solar and wind (mostly generated by our political leaders).
And we also pay for it with the lives of our young men and women who we send on these military adventures to the Near East to prop up countries like Saudi Arabia.